Schools in the UK to deny the Holocaust.

[LordJezo]

Seems like schools in the UK are going to censor history. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=445979&in_page_id=1770)

Schools are dropping the Holocaust from history lessons to avoid offending Muslim pupils, a Governmentbacked study has revealed.

It found some teachers are reluctant to cover the atrocity for fear of upsetting students whose beliefs include Holocaust denial.

Seems like once again people are caving in and history is being changed.

[pennington]

This is disturbing. In another couple of generations Hitler will just be a footnote, another leader of some war.

Spain, Germany, Holland, France, England - Europe is done. Just close the door and walk away.

[Cleophus James]

Wow. Islam is taking over.

[cupcakelove]

You're title is misleading. The article talks about one unnamed school that removed the holocaust from its history course to avoid dealing with holocaust deniers in the class. I wouldn't be surprised if this story is a load of crap.

[burrben]

It found some teachers are reluctant to cover the atrocity for fear of upsetting students whose beliefs include Holocaust denial. [/I]



i'm sure slavery upsets little black kids but we can't pretend like it never happened

[RicShaw]

I find geometry offensive. I demand that the talk of squares, triangles and other shapes stop. Seriously, how long are we going to go on bowing to these idiots?

[TheMojoPin]

Wow. Islam is taking over.

Not necessarily:

But yesterday Islamic leaders condemned the politically correct move as misguided and said decisions like this were turning Muslims into 'misfits' in society.

[MrPink]

Why don't we remove the '69 moon landing from curriculums too?

[Dan 'Hampton]

I enjoy how people in this country look to Europe as a symbol of the way things should be. When in fact there is massive racial tensions throughout the country that boil up on the streets. Yes there is racism here but when was the last time you heard of people throwing bananas on the field at a game or when was the last time Muslims went into the streets and rioted in a major city. It's probably just about to boil here but Europe is a pretty F'd up place. They are no more tolerant than we are.

[Snacks]

I enjoy how people in this country look to Europe as a symbol of the way things should be. When in fact there is massive racial tensions throughout the country that boil up on the streets. Yes there is racism here but when was the last time you heard of people throwing bananas on the field at a game or when was the last time Muslims went into the streets and rioted in a major city. It's probably just about to boil here but Europe is a pretty F'd up place. They are no more tolerant than we are.

Are you serious? Serina Williams just had a man kicked out for calling her a nigger. There is still a lot of racist bastards here. But the majority still fight against them.

Now about removing the holocaust from school books. Well thats just stupid. They should offer it as a class you can choose (atleast) like we offer black history classes etc.

I do love how we dont understand how people can deny the holocaust yet there are so many people that deny our own history about slavery, treatment of Indians and some of the shit we do now. We always justify our actions for why these things happened.

[Fat_Sunny]

I do love how we dont understand how people can deny the holocaust yet there are so many people that deny our own history about slavery, treatment of Indians and some of the shit we do now. We always justify our actions for why these things happened.

As A Conservative Libertarian, F_S Is The First To Admit That Slavery Is A HUGE Blight On US History, As Was Our Treatment Of The Indians. Both Of These Historical Events Sadden Fat GREATLY And Embarass Him No End.

The Difference Is, That Treatment Was Not Done By Fat Or Snacks, It Happened In The Past.

The Reaction Of The Muslims To The Cartoons Last February Was In The PRESENT. They Went Out And Rioted And Torched Cars, And France Was Burning For A Month.

The American Christians Who Were Equally Offended By The Chocaolate Jesus And The Crucifix In Urine Used WORDS To Express Their Dis-Pleasure, Not Molotov Cocktails.

[Dan 'Hampton]

Are you serious? Serina Williams just had a man kicked out for calling her a nigger. There is still a lot of racist bastards here. But the majority still fight against them.



Now have that every time she plays a match and have tons of people doing it, and then you'd be on the scale of whats happening.

[badmonkey]

Why don't we remove the '69 moon landing from curriculums too?

Everything that happened in 1969 should be stricken from history books. It will only encourage teenage sexuality and deviant experimentation. In fact, no school books should have a page 69. Get 69 out of our schools now! It's corrupting the children!

Badmonkey

[TheMojoPin]

I enjoy how people in this country look to Europe as a symbol of the way things should be. When in fact there is massive racial tensions throughout the country that boil up on the streets. Yes there is racism here but when was the last time you heard of people throwing bananas on the field at a game or when was the last time Muslims went into the streets and rioted in a major city. It's probably just about to boil here but Europe is a pretty F'd up place. They are no more tolerant than we are.

Unless people are running around here saying "Europe is perfect," the flaws of that continent doesn't somehow erase the things they do right. Same thing goes for America.

It seems a lot of people in this thread are glossing over the fact these these teachers opted to do this themselves. It's a stupid decision, but there's nothing indicating that they did it because of any kind of specific request/complaint/fear/threat/etc. from outside groups or individuals. Like I quoted, too, local muslim groups have actually gone out of their way to say how this action and others doesn't do them or anyone else any good.

Again, these teachers are making awful choices. There's no reason for them to be doing this...but at the same time, there's nothing in the article that indicates that is the result of muslims actually trying to get this stuff squelched or some kind of widepsread decision by the school systems to knock it off...this sounds like the work of some overly PC and, quite frankly, very bad teachers (read the tail end of the article to see how poorly reviewed a lot of these teachers were by the studies). I see no reason why school systems don't set down a guideline for history classes as to things that no matter what they NEED to teach in some capacity if it falls into the time period being studied by the class.

In short, these teachers made poor decisions and there's no reason for them to have made them.

[sailor]

Now have that every time she plays a match and have tons of people doing it, and then you'd be on the scale of whats happening.

very true. plus, the guy in question disputes ever saying the word. and words are not as bad as physical actions in cases like this, in my opinion.

[Don Stugots]

Everything that happened in 1969 should be stricken from history books. It will only encourage teenage sexuality and deviant experimentation. In fact, no school books should have a page 69. Get 69 out of our schools now! It's corrupting the children!

Badmonkey

going one step furtherman, buildings should not a 69th floor and speedometers should not 69 MPH.

[foodcourtdruide]

As A Conservative Libertarian, F_S Is The First To Admit That Slavery Is A HUGE Blight On US History, As Was Our Treatment Of The Indians. Both Of These Historical Events Sadden Fat GREATLY And Embarass Him No End.

The Difference Is, That Treatment Was Not Done By Fat Or Snacks, It Happened In The Past.

The Reaction Of The Muslims To The Cartoons Last February Was In The PRESENT. They Went Out And Rioted And Torched Cars, And France Was Burning For A Month.

The American Christians Who Were Equally Offended By The Chocaolate Jesus And The Crucifix In Urine Used WORDS To Express Their Dis-Pleasure, Not Molotov Cocktails.

Oh please stop acting all high and mighty. Are you saying that American Christians have never used violence to convey their message?

[SatCam]

Who else knew this was posted by Lord Jezo before even opening the thread and seeing the author

[AgnosticJihad]

I enjoy how people in this country look to Europe as a symbol of the way things should be. When in fact there is massive racial tensions throughout the country that boil up on the streets. Yes there is racism here but when was the last time you heard of people throwing bananas on the field at a game or when was the last time Muslims went into the streets and rioted in a major city. It's probably just about to boil here but Europe is a pretty F'd up place. They are no more tolerant than we are.

First of all, most people when looking to Europe as an example are looking at government policies, not the attitudes of individual European citizens or the actions of one school. Most governments, and the EU in particular, have made in a primary goal to develop "social inclusion", making every person in Europe regardless of thier nationality, race, religion, gender, etc equal; thus, to blame all of Europe for the actions/beliefs of individuals isn't exactly appropriate. Plus, it's well-known Europe has the same problems with dealing with immigrant populations and whether or not they should be forced to integrate, much as we do with immigrant/alien populations from Latin America. As for Europe being fucked up, name a country or continent that isn't pretty fucked up. Also, given that Europe has thousands of years of history where the population was exclusively white, and that the population remains predominantly white, of course there's going to be problems with racism, and probably more than what we have here. Also, I don't recall anyone saying Europeans were more tolerant than Americans, so where are you getting that from?

[Fat_Sunny]

Oh please stop acting all high and mighty. Are you saying that American Christians have never used violence to convey their message?

F_S Isn't Even A Christian, D-B, So How Is That High And Mighty?

[AgnosticJihad]

As for not teaching the Holocaust becasue the teachers/school doesn't want to deal with those who do not believe in the Holocaust: fuck that. If someone argues that it didn't occur, show than any of the films or better yet official government documents from the third reich that proves it occured. Or schedule a field trip to Germany soyou can show them the concentration camps. I know these teachers can't force thier students to believe in documented historical facts, but they can sure as hell try.

[Snacks]

Oh please stop acting all high and mighty. Are you saying that American Christians have never used violence to convey their message?

People like to forget how savage christians were for 1000+ years. People love to talk about the violence of muslims but dont see it as similar to what other religions have done. I think its b/c they think in todays day and age there is no need for violence to get your point accross, back then there was (maybe?) I agree no need for the violence but that also stands for countries using war to get or steal what they want.

The muslim violence has only escalated due to things they feel are wrong being done to them. Stealing of their land, wars for oil, etc. They dont like Jews and feel Jews are taking over their land and they feel they are fighting for their rights, just as christins did and Jews have done and continue to do.

We will never know who is to blame for any of this, but I never start my blame with blaming muslims.

Maybe it should all start with blaming religion?!

[Earlshog]

Everything that happened in 1969 should be stricken from history books. It will only encourage teenage sexuality and deviant experimentation. In fact, no school books should have a page 69. Get 69 out of our schools now! It's corrupting the children!

Badmonkey

I'm all for Brian Adams "summer of 69" being sticken...

would it mean the Mets only have one championship?

[foodcourtdruide]

F_S Isn't Even A Christian, D-B, So How Is That High And Mighty?

Your statement definitely had implied that American Christian's were somehow more peaceful than Muslims.

[Jujubees2]

I demand that all Lions be removed from zoos as we all know what the Lions did to the Christians.

[AgnosticJihad]

People like to forget how savage christians were for 1000+ years. People love to talk about the violence of muslims but dont see it as similar to what other religions have done. I think its b/c they think in todays day and age there is no need for violence to get your point accross, back then there was (maybe?) I agree no need for the violence but that also stands for countries using war to get or steal what they want.

The muslim violence has only escalated due to things they feel are wrong being done to them. Stealing of their land, wars for oil, etc. They dont like Jews and feel Jews are taking over their land and they feel they are fighting for their rights, just as christins did and Jews have done and continue to do.

We will never know who is to blame for any of this, but I never start my blame with blaming muslims.

Maybe it should all start with blaming religion?!

Amen.

[Fat_Sunny]

Your statement definitely had implied that American Christian's were somehow more peaceful than Muslims.

Yes, It Did Imply That In The PRESENT American Christians Are More Peaceful Than European Muslims. THEY ARE, As Per The Examples Given. If You Have Counter-Examples, List Them.

Since Fat Is Not Even A Christian, That Comment Was Not "High And Mighty".

[reeshy]

People like to forget how savage christians were for 1000+ years. People love to talk about the violence of muslims but dont see it as similar to what other religions have done. I think its b/c they think in todays day and age there is no need for violence to get your point accross, back then there was (maybe?) I agree no need for the violence but that also stands for countries using war to get or steal what they want.

The muslim violence has only escalated due to things they feel are wrong being done to them. Stealing of their land, wars for oil, etc. They dont like Jews and feel Jews are taking over their land and they feel they are fighting for their rights, just as christins did and Jews have done and continue to do.

We will never know who is to blame for any of this, but I never start my blame with blaming muslims.

Maybe it should all start with blaming religion?!

Hey Snacks......you really thinki that christians or muslims are the ones to blame...if you were a TRUE christian or muslim....you don't kill people....period!!!

[Don Stugots]

could I claim pizza back from the Mexicans for the Italians? or is that too much of a reach.

[Snacks]

Hey Snacks......you really thinki that christians or muslims are the ones to blame...if you were a TRUE christian or muslim....you don't kill people....period!!!

What? Huh?

All people shouldnt and dont kill. Religion has nothing to do with not killing, but it sure as hell has a lot to do with killing. Most wars and cleansing of cultures is based on religion or someones take on what their religion tells them.

Like I said before blame religion or blame those who claim their god has a bigger dick then someone elses god and they have the need to prove it!

[TheMojoPin]

Yes, It Did Imply That In The PRESENT American Christians Are More Peaceful Than European Muslims. THEY ARE, As Per The Examples Given. If You Have Counter-Examples, List Them.

Since Fat Is Not Even A Christian, That Comment Was Not "High And Mighty".

At the moment, yeah, the most active terrorists tend to be muslim. That said, if I wanted to counter that, I'd point out that mose of the domestic "terror" groups/militias tend to steep themselves in what they think is christian fundamentals. Of course, those tools are just perverting christinaity to their own twisted causes same as the extremist muslim sects. But they're mostly quietly at the moment, at least compared to the scope of muslim extremist activity.

Point is, these "whose religion is worse" pissing matches serve to accomplish little except getting people ticked off. Saying any of these groups do what they do only or even mainly because of their perceived faith is too simplistic to be of any use.

And none of this had anything to do with the original story since nobody, christian or muslim, attacked or threatened or even asked these teachers and schools to do this. Outside of a few complaints or comments, these teachers had zero legitimate reason or justification for doing this.

[Snacks]

could I claim pizza back from the Mexicans for the Italians? or is that too much of a reach.

Us Italians will always claim pizza. Not b/c I'm Italian but we really do have the worlds best food. No one can fight this.

[Snacks]

At the moment, yeah, the most active terrorists tend to be muslim. That said, if I wanted to counter that, I'd point out that mose of the domestic "terror" groups/militias tend to steep themselves in what they think is christian fundamentals. Of course, those tools are just perverting christinaity to their own twisted causes same as the extremist muslim sects. But they're mostly quietly at the moment, at least compared to the scope of muslim extremist activity.

Point is, these "whose religion is worse" pissing matches serve to accomplish little except getting people ticked off. Saying any of these groups do what they do only or even mainly because of their perceived faith is too simplistic to be of any use.

And none of this had anything to do with the original story since nobody, christian or muslim, attacked or threatened or even asked these teachers and schools to do this. Outside of a few complaints or comments, these teachers had zero legitimate reason or justification for doing this.

I listened to about 15 minutes of Rush "pian killer" Limbaugh today. It was the first time I listened to him in 5 years. Let me start this by saying I hate everything he stands for and have only agreed with him once (Mcnabb thing and that he shouldnt have been fired for his opinion)

He was making fun of Al Gore and all "liberals" who believe in global warming. He calling them loones, crazy, stupid etc. He has a right to his opinion but why are these people stupid or crazy? The people who believe in stopping global warming and what is going on has provebale science to back their beliefs.

Yet when people call religious people stupid for believing in their religion which is unproveable and many religions most has been dis-proven (is that a word?) these same people get all nervous and call for those people to take it back and dont bash religion etc.

[JimBeam]

Surely bad things have happened in the name of Christianity but when was the last major incident ?

It's happening with the Muslims in the 21st century.

Are they allowed some learning curve that other societies/religions didn't have ?

And the point about us here in the UD " denying " the treatment of indians and slavery is off the mark.
We don't deny it ever happened although we may chose to not look back on it.

Denying the Holocaust is a lot different than poo-pooing an issue.

As a side note other countries and those in Africa themselves need to take a better look at their role in the slave trade as well.

Why is it always made to look like the US invented slavery ?

Don't the Jews claim to be victims of slavery in their history ?

Didn't the Spanish treat the South American indians pretty bad ?

Didn't the British treat the Irish as damn near slaves for years ?

[mikeyboy]

You're title is misleading. The article talks about one unnamed school that removed the holocaust from its history course to avoid dealing with holocaust deniers in the class. I wouldn't be surprised if this story is a load of crap.

Has LordJezo ever started a thread that didn't have a misleading title?

[Snacks]

Surely bad things have happened in the name of Christianity but when was the last major incident ?

It's happening with the Muslims in the 21st century.

Are they allowed some learning curve that other societies/religions didn't have ?

And the point about us here in the UD " denying " the treatment of indians and slavery is off the mark.
We don't deny it ever happened although we may chose to not look back on it.

Denying the Holocaust is a lot different than poo-pooing an issue.

As a side note other countries and those in Africa themselves need to take a better look at their role in the slave trade as well.

Why is it always made to look like the US invented slavery ?

Don't the Jews claim to be victims of slavery in their history ?

Didn't the Spanish treat the South American indians pretty bad ?

Didn't the British treat the Irish as damn near slaves for years ?

I agree with this. It was Africans who did sell Africans to other countries. The first black on black crime!
And I agree that others have been victims of slavery. Italians were enslaved by Africans in Siciley. That rumor about sicilians having black in their blood may be a joke at times but it comes from truth.

[Yerdaddy]

I'm a LordJizzo denier. We have meetings and everything. With punch and pie. Anyone wanna join?

Know what's funny is the newspaper that's complaining about Holocaust deniers didn't deny the Holocaust at the time - they just thought the wrong side won! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail#Support_for_Nazism_and_Fascism)

In early 1934 Rothermere and the Mail were sympathetic to Oswald Mosley and the British Union of Fascists. Rothermere wrote an article, Hurrah for the Blackshirts, in January 1934, in which he praised Mosley for his "sound, commonsense, Conservative doctrine", though after the violence of the 1934 Olympia meeting involving the BUF, the Mail withdrew its support for Mosley.

Rothermere was a friend and supporter of both Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler, which influenced the Mail's political stance toward them up to 1939. During this period it was the only British newspaper to consistently support the German Nazi Party.[1] [2] Rothermere visited and corresponded with Hitler on many occasions. On 1 October 1938, Rothermere sent Hitler a telegram in support of Germany's invasion of the Sudetenland, and expressing the hope that 'Adolf the Great' would become a popular figure in Britain.

In 1937, the Mail's chief war correspondent George Ward Price, to whom Mussolini once personally wrote in support of him and the newspaper, published a book, I Know These Dictators, in defence of Hitler and Mussolini.

Rothermere and the Mail supported Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement, particularly during the events leading up to the Munich Agreement. However, after the Nazi invasion of Prague in 1939, the Mail changed position and urged Chamberlain to prepare for war, not least, perhaps, because on account of its stance it had been threatened with closure by the British Government.

The paper continues to be referred to on occasion by critics as the Daily Heil, referring to its current conservative stance and its past support for Mosley.[3]

Oddly enough, I can't even check the story out because this tabloid article doesn't even tell me the name of the report, only that it was "backed" by the Department for Education and Skills, which doesn't mention the report. So I'm supposed to trust them to accurately portray what was in the report and if I don't trust them I'm disloyal or an anti-Semite or something.

I guess their right-wing press over there isn't that much different from our own. Garbage.

[cupcakelove]

Oddly enough, I can't even check the story out because this tabloid article doesn't even tell me the name of the report, only that it was "backed" by the Department for Education and Skills, which doesn't mention the report. So I'm supposed to trust them to accurately portray what was in the report and if I don't trust them I'm disloyal or an anti-Semite or something.

I guess their right-wing press over there isn't that much different from our own. Garbage.

That's the point I was trying to make yesterday. It mentions a certain school and some teachers, without giving any kind of specifics. With the information given there's no way this story can be confirmed or denied. It also seems the point of this story is to spread fear about Muslims integrating into western society. It plays into the myth that all Muslims hate Jews and don't believe the holocaust happened.

[Dan 'Hampton]

Wasn't Joe Kennedy a Nazi sympathizer as well?

[Fat_Sunny]

Wasn't Joe Kennedy a Nazi sympathizer as well?

Yes, He Was. And So Was Charles Lindbergh. Also, Look At Mojo Pin's Wee If You Want To See A Modern-Day Nazi. An Unabashed And Unashamed Nazi Wee.

[Furtherman]

Has LordJezo ever started a thread that didn't have a misleading title?

It's the O'Reilly factor at work. One story out of one place that is against the norm and it obviously must be happening everywhere!

[scottinnj]

Why don't we remove the '69 moon landing from curriculums too?


I thought that was 68? Oh well, I guess I am turning 39 this year.

[PapaBear]

I thought that was 68? Oh well, I guess I am turning 39 this year.
July 20, 1969. It's my oldest memory.

[foodcourtdruide]

Yes, It Did Imply That In The PRESENT American Christians Are More Peaceful Than European Muslims. THEY ARE, As Per The Examples Given. If You Have Counter-Examples, List Them.

Since Fat Is Not Even A Christian, That Comment Was Not "High And Mighty".

You just changed the argument by introducing the word "PRESENT". You are more concerned with being correct than having an actual conversation.

[foodcourtdruide]

You just changed the argument by introducing the word "PRESENT". You are more concerned with being correct than having an actual conversation.

Just re-read your original post again. Guess you didn't just introduce the word "PRESENT" :)

As far as actual physical violence, I would agree that muslim groups have more documented incidents of violence than American Christians over the last decade.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Yerdaddy]

Just re-read your original post again. Guess you didn't just introduce the word "PRESENT" :)

As far as actual physical violence, I would agree that muslim groups have more documented incidents of violence than American Christians over the last decade.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

State violence or individual? I know the intent wasn't to destroy Iraq, but through gross and sometimes willful neglegence what we've done with the Iraq War has been worse than anything Muslims have done in the last ten years in terms of human life and suffering. That depends on how you assign blame of course. Much of the violence has been committed by the Iraqis, but we were warned by our own uniformed military that, if we didn't take the proper steps everything that has happened would happen. We didn't take those steps and we essentially unleashed the worst of Iraqi society on the rest of the population.

Of course most Americans will not want to accept that the war was immoral or criminal in any way, not wanting to believe that we are capable of immorality or criminality. But it was both.

[foodcourtdruide]

State violence or individual? I know the intent wasn't to destroy Iraq, but through gross and sometimes willful neglegence what we've done with the Iraq War has been worse than anything Muslims have done in the last ten years in terms of human life and suffering. That depends on how you assign blame of course. Much of the violence has been committed by the Iraqis, but we were warned by our own uniformed military that, if we didn't take the proper steps everything that has happened would happen. We didn't take those steps and we essentially unleashed the worst of Iraqi society on the rest of the population.

Of course most Americans will not want to accept that the war was immoral or criminal in any way, not wanting to believe that we are capable of immorality or criminality. But it was both.

Hey, if we're including the Iraq war then I take my apology back!

[Dougie Brootal]

Who else knew this was posted by Lord Jezo before even opening the thread and seeing the author

:bye:

[Fat_Sunny]

You just changed the argument by introducing the word "PRESENT".

You're An Idiot Who Can't Read. Look At The Original Post: It Refers To Past And PRESENT. When You Stop Being An Idiot, Fat Will Be Happy To Have A Conversation With You.

[TheMojoPin]

You're An Idiot Who Can't Read. Look At The Original Post: It Refers To Past And PRESENT. When You Stop Being An Idiot, Fat Will Be Happy To Have A Conversation With You.

He didn't call you a name, and his very next post he corrected himself and realized what you meant, so why don't YOU learn how to read?

[Fat_Sunny]

He didn't call you a name, and his very next post he corrected himself and realized what you meant, so why don't YOU learn how to read?

F_S Read Druide's First Response And Immediately Went To Reply, Without Seeing His Second Post. Since He Graciously Apologized, Fat Likewise Graciously Apologizes To FoodCourtDuide.

[foodcourtdruide]

You're An Idiot Who Can't Read. Look At The Original Post: It Refers To Past And PRESENT. When You Stop Being An Idiot, Fat Will Be Happy To Have A Conversation With You.

I don't get so insulted by what some guy on the internet who refers to himself in the third person says, however you did just lose all credibility with me. I could have easily just edited the post when I realized what I said was wrong, but I don't believe in hiding something I've said that is wrong.

In these political discussions people sometimes read what they want to read, and I'm guilty of that sometimes.

[foodcourtdruide]

F_S Read Druide's First Response And Immediately Went To Reply, Without Seeing His Second Post. Since He Graciously Apologized, Fat Likewise Graciously Apologizes To FoodCourtDuide.

Haha I did the same thing! You regained an element of credibility with me! :)

[foodcourtdruide]

He didn't call you a name, and his very next post he corrected himself and realized what you meant, so why don't YOU learn how to read?

Thanks Mojo :)