National Health Care Debate

[keithy_19]

Paying for health care is for suckers. I'm movin' to Nebraska.

POTD

:lol:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Lindsey Graham who I'm not too fond of, finally grows a spine


http://www.foxsmallbusinesscenter.com/politics/2009/12/21/graham-calls-legal-review-nelson-health-care-deal/

[Recyclerz]

Paying for health care is for suckers. I'm movin' to Nebraska.

Funny, but misleading.

If you want to be on Medicaid in NE, odds are you're going to be treated by a veterinarian. Which would be fine if you have hoof and mouth disease but less than optimal otherwise.

[epo]

Lindsey Graham who I'm not too fond of, finally grows a spine


http://www.foxsmallbusinesscenter.com/politics/2009/12/21/graham-calls-legal-review-nelson-health-care-deal/

Then let's review the 2003 Medicare reform that the republicans passed. I'm sure there was nothing weird in that bill.

Oh wait..........

[epo]

Senator Coburn asked people to pray for 92 year old Senator Robert Byrd's death (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/20/AR2009122002872.html?hpid=topnews) because of health care....then Senator Inhofe couldn't make a morning vote. So of course...a crazy teabagger called C-Span concerned that he "prayed Senator Inhofe" to death.

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That is just too fucking hilariously retarded to not point and laugh.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Then let's review the 2003 Medicare reform that the republicans passed. I'm sure there was nothing weird in that bill.

Oh wait..........

The GOP doesn't get off scott free either as Medicare Part D should have not been passed

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Senator Coburn asked people to pray for 92 year old Senator Robert Byrd's death (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/20/AR2009122002872.html?hpid=topnews) because of health care....then Senator Inhofe couldn't make a morning vote. So of course...a crazy teabagger called C-Span concerned that he "prayed Senator Inhofe" to death.

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That is just too fucking hilariously retarded to not point and laugh.

Byrd is a walking corpse anyway

[epo]

Byrd is a walking corpse anyway

And yet Byrd got his ass out of bed in the morning to do his job and vote. I can't say the same for Inhofe.

[Bob Impact]

Senator Coburn asked people to pray for 92 year old Senator Robert Byrd's death (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/20/AR2009122002872.html?hpid=topnews) because of health care....then Senator Inhofe couldn't make a morning vote. So of course...a crazy teabagger called C-Span concerned that he "prayed Senator Inhofe" to death.

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That is just too fucking hilariously retarded to not point and laugh.

That's insanely hilarious.

[Recyclerz]

Senator Coburn asked people to pray for 92 year old Senator Robert Byrd's death (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/20/AR2009122002872.html?hpid=topnews) because of health care....then Senator Inhofe couldn't make a morning vote. So of course...a crazy teabagger called C-Span concerned that he "prayed Senator Inhofe" to death.

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That is just too fucking hilariously retarded to not point and laugh.

Sorry, I call shenanigans. The caller referred to his "teabag" group and the teabaggers have been pretty fastidious about calling themselves "tea partiers" once somebody filled them in on the double entendre and ruined the bit.

What I find fascinating is that no other Republicans (that I've heard about anyway) in any elected position of public leadership has the balls or the decency to call out Coburn for publicly invoking Jehovah to smite somebody who is voting for a bill he doesn't like. The Republicans used to be represented by not insane grown-ups. No more. Bring back the Whigs.

[conman823]

Bring back the Whigs.

:thumbup:

[SonOfSmeagol]

Even the Queen of England weighs in on the health care bill:

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20091222/capt.photo_1261446678936-1-0.jpg?x=400&y=313&q=85&sig=lIhJkA0BR9gTmyWkW85D8w--

[epo]

Even the Queen of England weighs in on the health care bill:

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20091222/capt.photo_1261446678936-1-0.jpg?x=400&y=313&q=85&sig=lIhJkA0BR9gTmyWkW85D8w--

That's quite an argument.

[SonOfSmeagol]

That's quite an argument.

She is, after all, a woman of few words.

[badmonkey]

Funny, but misleading.

If you want to be on Medicaid in NE, odds are you're going to be treated by a veterinarian. Which would be fine if you have hoof and mouth disease but less than optimal otherwise.

When did you join CNN's comedy fact check team?

[tanless1]

Funny, but misleading.

If you want to be on Medicaid in NE, odds are you're going to be treated by a veterinarian. Which would be fine if you have hoof and mouth disease but less than optimal otherwise.

If they can remove a uterus, they can remove an apendix

[WRESTLINGFAN]

this healthcare will become the Big Dig but on a national scale

[epo]

No matter which side of the aisle you are on, I think the most interesting provision of the bill is the "Value Index" portion.

Essentially they are going to shift Medicare payments to a "quality" basis, while moving away from "quantity" which is an outstanding pay-for-performance mechanism. I expect our government to create change through leadership and this is a perfect example of using a common business practice and applying it to reducing cost.

Kudos to the Senate for that provision.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Dont worry NY, Rangels got your back

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA SUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/12/23/2009-12-23_rep_charles_rangel_tells_new_york_not_to_fear_h ealth_care_reform__hell_safeguard.html

[keithy_19]

And yet Byrd got his ass out of bed in the morning to do his job and vote. I can't say the same for Inhofe.

Like a certain former senator?

http://eastasiaforum.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/barack_obama00001.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Like a certain former senator?

http://eastasiaforum.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/barack_obama00001.jpg

RACIST!!!!!

To his credit he voted Present a huge number of times

[epo]

60-39. On to conference committee in January.

[A.J.]

this healthcare will become the Big Dig but on a national scale

Makes sense since Ted Kennedy was its strongest proponent.

When you rush through "reform" in a unilateral manner, it can only work out for the best!

[epo]

Makes sense since Ted Kennedy was its strongest proponent.

When you rush through "reform" in a unilateral manner, it can only work out for the best!

I really don't buy the "rush through" argument some have made about health care reform. Isn't 10 months of debate enough?

[A.J.]

I really don't buy the "rush through" argument some have made about health care reform. Isn't 10 months of debate enough?

For reforming something this major and complex? We rushed "intelligence reform" before. And how did that work out? We now have two shitty, useless bureaucracies: Department of Homeland Security and the Director of National Intelligence.

We couldn't pass this for 40 years and now we're going to get it done correctly in 10 months? Color me skeptical.

[spoon]

For reforming something this major and complex? We rushed "intelligence reform" before. And how did that work out? We now have two shitty, useless bureaucracies: Department of Homeland Security and the Director of National Intelligence.

We couldn't pass this for 40 years and now we're going to get it done correctly in 10 months? Color me skeptical.

So in reality this debate has been raging for years...typical bureaucratic bullshit in which NOTHING changes and we're stuck in neutral. Will it be perfect? I doubt it, but it's a start. I'm not sure on the lack of a public option to be honest.

[epo]

For reforming something this major and complex? We rushed "intelligence reform" before. And how did that work out? We now have two shitty, useless bureaucracies: Department of Homeland Security and the Director of National Intelligence.

We couldn't pass this for 40 years and now we're going to get it done correctly in 10 months? Color me skeptical.

If you want a rush job, look no further than the Patriot Act.

[spoon]

this healthcare will become the Big Dig but on a national scale

when will you realize it already is

time to do something about it and other big issues

agree or not, will people stop saying Obama has done nothing still? it's almost like they like the punishment of pushing him further on more topics they don't agree on. make up ur minds, either stick to he's ruining our country or doing nothing...in this case it can't be both.

[A.J.]

If you want a rush job, look no further than the Patriot Act.

That too, yes.

This is why I hate politics: short-term, ineffective legislation to score political mileage with the voters. Which is why I wanted to throw my beer bottle at the TV when I saw Chris Dodd mugging for the cameras.

[underdog]

this healthcare will become the Big Dig but on a national scale

So you're saying it will be great and eventually worth the money we spent?

[A.J.]

this healthcare will become the Big Dig but on a national scale

So you're saying it will be great and eventually worth the money we spent?

Or there will a fatal ceiling collapse.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That too, yes.

This is why I hate politics: short-term, ineffective legislation to score political mileage with the voters. Which is why I wanted to throw my beer bottle at the TV when I saw Chris Dodd mugging for the cameras.

If there is a god, Enough people here in CT will vote his carcass out in 2010

DUMP DODD!!!!

[A.J.]

If there is a god, Enough people here in CT will vote his carcass out in 2010

DUMP DODD!!!!

I have absolutely no faith in the people of CT. They elected him, Lieberman and Rosa DeLauro in the first place.

[epo]

If there is a god, Enough people here in CT will vote his carcass out in 2010

DUMP DODD!!!!

Who is gonna pull that off?

Linda McMahon?
Peter Schiff?

Find a real candidate and you might have a chance.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Who is gonna pull that off?

Linda McMahon?
Peter Schiff?

Find a real candidate and you might have a chance.

I would rather see Schiff than McMahon win the primary. He's got some economic sense. McMahon is a country club republican

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Dont open the champagne yet



http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-rell-sue-nebraska-1224.artdec24,0,1460413.story


I think there will be more scenarios like this, and rightly so!!!!

[Recyclerz]

When did you join CNN's comedy fact check team?

Last month. I sent them $9.95 and I got a certificate and a plastic badge that says Deputy.

I think they're looking for new income sources.

[epo]

Dont open the champagne yet

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-rell-sue-nebraska-1224.artdec24,0,1460413.story

I think there will be more scenarios like this, and rightly so!!!!


That is nothing more than grandstanding and a publicity stunt.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Will they stop refering to the high end insurance plans as "Cadillac Plans" Caddy is a division of a bankrupt company. Call it Mercedes Plan

[underdog]

Will they stop refering to the high end insurance plans as "Cadillac Plans" Caddy is a division of a bankrupt company. Call it Mercedes Plan

Cadillac also came to mean the best.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Cadillac also came to mean the best.

I remember the slogan from back in the day "Best of all its a Cadillac"

[beachbum]

BCBS just sent me a letter showing all of the things that they will now cover that they wouldn't cover before.Coincidence?I think not.

[A.J.]

Cadillac also came to mean the best.

That's goddamn right.

http://fourfour.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b8c369e20128760e3433970c-800wi

[epo]

I would rather see Schiff than McMahon win the primary. He's got some economic sense. McMahon is a country club republican

I saw data today for the Connecticut Republican primary:

Linda McMahon: 37%
Rob Simmons: 35%
Peter Schiff: 4%

Obviously the voters of Connecticut take Peter Schiff as seriously as I do. However they do seem to love their WRASSLIN!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I saw data today for the Connecticut Republican primary:

Linda McMahon: 37%
Rob Simmons: 35%
Peter Schiff: 4%

Obviously the voters of Connecticut take Peter Schiff as seriously as I do. However they do seem to love their WRASSLIN!

Like AJ said, he has no faith in the people of CT. On a lighter note the WWE HQ is in Stamford CT:clap:

[epo]

National Geographic put together an amazing chart, combining national health costs per capita/per year with life expectancy. The graphic tells you how nuts our system currently is:

http://blogs.ngm.com/.a/6a00e0098226918833012876674340970c-800wi

[Recyclerz]

As an addendum to Epo's chart


An easy to understand chart of the improvements to the healthcare delivery system that the Senate bill would accomplish (http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/12/21/jane-kill/)

It isn't perfect but it is a good start

[Syd]

There is "some" good to it, and it represents a very minor but very important step forward towards creating a legitimate, first world healthcare system in America.

[angrymissy]

Right after Thanksgiving, I was at my sister's house in Westchester. I woke up with horrific vomiting and stomach craps, chills and fever. I decided to try and drive home to LI, bad idea. I literally had to pull off to continuously vomit and shake. I felt like I was going to die. I used my GPS to find the nearest ER on LI.

I waited 30 minutes to be called, running into the bathroom every 5. I was assessed by a triage nurse who did the following and the following only:

Read the form I filled out with meds I was on, medical history
Took my temperature
Took my blood pressure/pulse

She then said I had what looked to be a very bad stomach virus, and that I'd be a lot better once they gave me meds and iv fluids.

I then went back to wait in the waiting room. I waited 3 hours, throwing up the entire time. After 3 hours, I went to the nurse, crying like a pussy, and asked her how much longer it would be, as I couldn't sit up in the waiting room any longer because I felt like hot garbage. She screamed at me in front of the entire waiting room and said "Go somewhere else, you'll wait 8 hours instead". I was pissed and sick and decided to try to make it home and did. I'd rather vomit in bed and suffer it out then wait in a shitty ER.

Anyway, long winded story point is this, I just got a bill in the mail today. They billed my insurance $678 for that and they want me to pay $100. $678 to take my temp, blood pressure, and pulse.

[KatPw]

Right after Thanksgiving, I was at my sister's house in Westchester. I woke up with horrific vomiting and stomach craps, chills and fever. I decided to try and drive home to LI, bad idea. I literally had to pull off to continuously vomit and shake. I felt like I was going to die. I used my GPS to find the nearest ER on LI.

I waited 30 minutes to be called, running into the bathroom every 5. I was assessed by a triage nurse who did the following and the following only:

Read the form I filled out with meds I was on, medical history
Took my temperature
Took my blood pressure/pulse

She then said I had what looked to be a very bad stomach virus, and that I'd be a lot better once they gave me meds and iv fluids.

I then went back to wait in the waiting room. I waited 3 hours, throwing up the entire time. After 3 hours, I went to the nurse, crying like a pussy, and asked her how much longer it would be, as I couldn't sit up in the waiting room any longer because I felt like hot garbage. She screamed at me in front of the entire waiting room and said "Go somewhere else, you'll wait 8 hours instead". I was pissed and sick and decided to try to make it home and did. I'd rather vomit in bed and suffer it out then wait in a shitty ER.

Anyway, long winded story point is this, I just got a bill in the mail today. They billed my insurance $678 for that and they want me to pay $100. $678 to take my temp, blood pressure, and pulse.
You could have stopped by my house and I would have taken your temp, pulse, blood pressure and breathing rate for free and at least I would have also shown you compassion and given you cookies to take home. Glad I dropped out of nursing. I'm sorry you had to deal with that shit and get a huge bill for your trouble . Complain to your insurance company about this. I don't know if it will do anything but it is worth a shot. I'm sure the insurance companies dislike paying out money for what amounts to zero treatment for the patient.

[tanless1]

I took my dad to the hospital for exibiting stroke symptoms. Admitting was involved in a. Detailed explanation that would save no ones life.....after 12 seconds I interjected myself into their conversation and pushed to the window " excuse me( insert symptoms) .. I was in the door in under 30 sec...mri in under 20 minutes.... today my dad can fly a plane again and speak.......I think we are doing pretty good. Much better than if the goverment and their bloated buerocracy get involved. Single payer, and still need to get approval?...from sombody who may be on vacation? No thanks. With single payer in place the precious time would of been squander on paper work and the remainder of my dads life would of been drasticly reduced.

I'm sorry for your experience missy , that is crap. And should certainly be addressed...but goverment will only create more situations like you experienced.

[KatPw]

I took my dad to the hospital for exibiting stroke symptoms. Admitting was involved in a. Detailed explanation that would save no ones life.....after 12 seconds I interjected myself into their conversation and pushed to the window " excuse me( insert symptoms) .. I was in the door in under 30 sec...mri in under 20 minutes.... today my dad can fly a plane again and speak.......I think we are doing pretty good. Much better than if the goverment and their bloated buerocracy get involved. Single payer, and still need to get approval?...from sombody who may be on vacation? No thanks. With single payer in place the precious time would of been squander on paper work and the remainder of my dads life would of been drasticly reduced.

I'm sorry for your experience missy , that is crap. And should certainly be addressed...but goverment will only create more situations like you experienced.

Your dad is lucky. When I brought my mom into the ER because she was really hypoglycemic and was having congestive heart failure we waited in the ER for a few hours before being seen and then she had to stay in the ER overnight until they could "get a bed" in the cardiac unit. Mike and I took turns sleeping on the floor because we didn't want her to be alone in the ER. Fun times.

[tanless1]

....and his advanced age, I don't think the govt would supply adequit physical therapy.

[tanless1]

Your dad is lucky. When I brought my mom into the ER because she was really hypoglycemic and was having congestive heart failure we waited in the ER for a few hours before being seen and then she had to stay in the ER overnight until they could "get a bed" in the cardiac unit. Mike and I took turns sleeping on the floor because we didn't want her to be alone in the ER. Fun times.

...yeah, that doesn't make sence. They could of done a skin pinch and run a blood sample fairly easily,,,,,and at least get her iv started within 40 min, while she was still in the waiting room......

[tanless1]

Govt is not the answer though. They failed w/ medicare. They stole social security...and now we want to. Put them in charge of our medical. Id rather pay the vetrenarian cash and take my chances then hope and pray that some politician isn't argueing with her husband and have to rely on her compassion to approve the salvation of my family...... let's not kid ourselves . Public option is only the shallow end to single payer.

[tanless1]

....wasn't it this year that cuba was concerned about not haveing enough toilet paper to get them through the year.....as they'd allready spent their allotment for the year.......that's socailism

[angrymissy]

If there was Universal Healthcare, there wouldn't have been 20 people in front of me at the ER bringing their kids in for earaches on a day the doctor was open becuase they didn't have insurance.

[tanless1]

If there was Universal Healthcare, there wouldn't have been 20 people in front of me at the ER bringing their kids in for earaches on a day the doctor was open becuase they didn't have insurance.

Sounds like the people you refer to would qualify for medicare or medicade.....so, that should not apply.

I went to a clinic once in utah and they charged for a bed and a room. There excuse was that they were attached to a hospital 10 miles away on paper.

[tanless1]

it doesn't take much money to open a clinic in a city and put a doctor in there and supply him with inexpensive drugs. Pay him a salary. That seems a lot less expensive and more humain than universal healthcare.

[KatPw]

Tanless, I don't know what your experience with government run healthcare is but I have a lot of experience with it. My grandmother was on medicaid because she was legally blind and widowed at 60. She was covered through medicare when she reached the age for it. My father was a Korean war vet who had 2 of his hernia surgeries through the VA hospital out in Northport. I also did one of my rotations through that same VA hospital about 6 years ago. The care that my grandmother had was no different than the care that my parents received though their Cigna insurance. In fact most of her care was far superior. The care that my father got at the VA was far better then he had at any of the private hospitals around that he was in, and that number is many. The work that I saw and gave at the VA was top notch. I currently have a patient at my office that we have sent to the VA to have implants placed. The communication we are getting from the Oral Surgeons there surpasses that of many of the doctors we work with privately. I also have another patient that went to the VA for treatment of his tongue cancer. His cancer was quite extensive but they saved his tongue and he is still cancer free.
In contrast the care that my parents received at our area hospitals was atrocious. My mother was served moldy bread at one hospital, the rehabilitation facility she was sent to was really a nursing home that refused to do any rehabilitation, I had to bathe my dying father myself quite frequently because the staff couldn't be bothered. My mother's heart surgeon tried to bill the insurance company for two triple bypasses and then tried to get me to pay when Cigna told him to fuck himself. After my father's second cardiac arrest in the hospital (due to morphine, which he told the doctors he was allergic to but they administered it anyway) he was freezing and they refused to get him another blanket. When you have a heart attack you get very cold afterwards. The nurses told me they didn't have the time to do this (this is told to me at 3am and the nurses were up at the desk bullshitting) and that I should try to locate one myself. The final fuck you to me and my family was when a staff member stole the Timex off my dead father's body on they way down to the morgue on Christmas Day.
I've had one parent or another treated in 4 different area hospitals, one of which is run by the Catholic church. They were all horrific.

[tanless1]

....how about this option. Goverment pays for a doctors education and in exchange he serves a community at one of these clinics for 4 years works for a salary of 40k a year and that community provides him w/ housing and utilities. There would be a 2 doctor rotation for each communitie. One senoir and one incoming with a rotating senior advisor that would service a county.
This would address the issue of over run emergency rooms that you referenced.

I don't want the govt invovled in life decisions for me, or my family.....and you won't either once they tell you or your family no.

[KatPw]

....how about this option. Goverment pays for a doctors education and in exchange he serves a community at one of these clinics for 4 years works for a salary of 40k a year and that community provides him w/ housing and utilities. There would be a 2 doctor rotation for each communitie. One senoir and one incoming with a rotating senior advisor that would service a county.
This would address the issue of over run emergency rooms that you referenced.

I don't want the govt invovled in life decisions for me, or my family.....and you won't either once they tell you or your family no.
Why is okay for the insurance companies to say no then? My mom was refused a mommography because the insurance did not deem it necessary. Meanwhile she had a cyst removed from her right breast when she was in her 20's. I was denied payment of a cat scan because they deemed my issue unnecessary. The reason I was having the cat scan was to check to see if I had a tumor in my jaw. How is finding a tumor unnecessary? To me that was very fucking necessary.

[tanless1]

...that is horrific. Barstow california has a VA. And the stories your are relating are reversed. That VA has been brought up on charges more than once for understaffing and all the problems that go with it.

[KatPw]

...that is horrific. Barstow california has a VA. And the stories your are relating are reversed. That VA has been brought up on charges more than once for understaffing and all the problems that go with it.

But so do all hospitals. They are no different. The same doctors at the VA go on to work in the private sector and vice versa. Hospitals are understaffed across the nation. Opportunistic infections are contracted at every hospital. Every hospital has fuck ups. You hear about the fuckups because they sell newspapers and are tragic. But if they printed the thousands of success stories it would get boring quite quickly. That goes for hospitals both government run and otherwise.

[tanless1]

To many times our govt has started programs that have become slush funds for other projects. Right and Left. Cap and trade....heavily massaged data....I just don't want them involved in the despencing of care. What they are able and allowed to do is. Tort reform, would bring prices down( no, I don't mean paitent has no redress. Just award caps. (wrongfull death 10mill for instance) this would help stabilize health care fees dramatically. Also a limit on lawyers service fees, under 20% ?
....

[tanless1]

....and they should perhaps the fees the medical schools are charging the students...
Education should not be unatainable nor crippling...nor should the govt feed the beast, as the more money govt garuentees, the education fees increase.

[angrymissy]

Sounds like the people you refer to would qualify for medicare or medicade.....so, that should not apply.

I went to a clinic once in utah and they charged for a bed and a room. There excuse was that they were attached to a hospital 10 miles away on paper.

Nope. Working poor do not qualify for either. It's very hard to qualify for Medicaid.

[tanless1]

...what about the other options I've listed? Don't those peaque your interest ?

[Bob Impact]

Nope. Working poor do not qualify for either. It's very hard to qualify for Medicaid.

Working poor do qualify for Medicaid but the maximum income level is extraordinarily low, something like 10K annually for a single person.

[tanless1]

The options I've listed would increase the amount of doctors, reduce education fees , and reduce fees for malpractice insurance.
It would revitalise comunities and inspire youth to reach for a star.

[tanless1]

....and we wouldn't have to buy votes to get this done.

[tanless1]

I just don't believe that govt is really interested in helping the people...they just want control of the money and service fees.

[KatPw]

This is a pretty interesting article regarding tort reform http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/would-tort-reform-lower-health-care-costs/

[epo]

The options I've listed would increase the amount of doctors, reduce education fees , and reduce fees for malpractice insurance.
It would revitalise comunities and inspire youth to reach for a star.

Its good to see you've moved on to the third stage of loss, "bargaining".

The shame of the entire health care debate is that you raise some interesting ideas, yet the republicans who supposedly represent the "conservative opinion" in the country refused to engage into the process and possibly flesh a couple of good ideas into the bill.

Instead they sat on the sidelines and bitched like children, because they thought it was "good politics".

[Bob Impact]

Its good to see you've moved on to the third stage of loss, "bargaining".

The shame of the entire health care debate is that you raise some interesting ideas, yet the republicans who supposedly represent the "conservative opinion" in the country refused to engage into the process and possibly flesh a couple of good ideas into the bill.

Instead they sat on the sidelines and bitched like children, because they thought it was "good politics".

^Though I think we're probably on opposite ends of the spectrum aside from this point this is EXACTLY what republicans did wrong.

[badmonkey]

Its good to see you've moved on to the third stage of loss, "bargaining".

The shame of the entire health care debate is that you raise some interesting ideas, yet the republicans who supposedly represent the "conservative opinion" in the country refused to engage into the process and possibly flesh a couple of good ideas into the bill.

Instead they sat on the sidelines and bitched like children, because they thought it was "good politics".

During those closed door meetings Harry Reid held to hammer out this bill, Republicans weren't allowed in the room cuz Democrats thought it was "good politics".

[SonOfSmeagol]

The shame of the entire health care debate is that you raise some interesting ideas, yet the republicans who supposedly represent the "conservative opinion" in the country refused to engage into the process and possibly flesh a couple of good ideas into the bill.

Instead they sat on the sidelines and bitched like children, because they thought it was "good politics".

Excuse me?!? What "shame"? I thought you were quite happy with the bill(s). As for "refused to engage" and "sat on the sidelines" and "bitched like children"- the majority was, and continues to be, WAY too busy MAKING DEALS WITH THEMSELVES. Not to mention the overall ramrod, got-to-get-it done now-or-never approach (why?). Where have you been and where are you going with this? You should be celebrating a great victory - your message has been to date that the majority clearly knows what it's doing and the minority does NOT, no? Embrace it!

[epo]

During those closed door meetings Harry Reid held to hammer out this bill, Republicans weren't allowed in the room cuz Democrats thought it was "good politics".



Excuse me?!? What "shame"? I thought you were quite happy with the bill(s). As for "refused to engage" and "sat on the sidelines" and "bitched like children"- the majority was, and continues to be, WAY too busy MAKING DEALS WITH THEMSELVES. Not to mention the overall ramrod, got-to-get-it done now-or-never approach (why?). Where have you been and where are you going with this? You should be celebrating a great victory - your message has been to date that the majority clearly knows what it's doing and the minority does NOT, no? Embrace it!

You can throw all of the shit fits you want, but Senator Jim DeMint summed up the republican position on health care reform a long time ago:

"If we're able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him"

They didn't give a fuck about this bill or reforming health care, all they wanted to do was score politics points. That is the definition of sitting on the sidelines and bitching like children.

[badmonkey]

You can throw all of the shit fits you want, but Senator Jim DeMint summed up the republican position on health care reform a long time ago:



They didn't give a fuck about this bill or reforming health care, all they wanted to do was score politics points. That is the definition of sitting on the sidelines and bitching like children.

The Democrats are the ones standing in the way of health care reform... I mean... until they get free health care for their state and hundreds of millions of dollars in favors thrown at them to buy their votes. Talk about "good politics"...how can Ben Nelson NOT get reelected after taking that bribe? It's not like he compromised his principles or anything. Once 60 are paid for, they score the political points of passing a spending bill with Health Care Reform in the title. You're right, that is "good politics".

But if it's such a wonderful fucking bill epo, why did they have to bribe members of their own party to vote for it? Wouldn't it be "good politics" to vote for such a popular bill that is going to fix health care and make it affordable for everybody? There have been 60 Democrats in the Senate for almost a whole year now...what's the hold up with this awesome bill?

"We won the election. We'll write the bill" -- President Barack "Bi-partisan" Obama as he forgot that the people he was talking to also won elections and have the right to represent the people that elected them.

[SonOfSmeagol]

You can throw all of the shit fits you want, but Senator Jim DeMint summed up the republican position on health care reform a long time ago:

They didn't give a fuck about this bill or reforming health care, all they wanted to do was score politics points. That is the definition of sitting on the sidelines and bitching like children.

Shit fits? I thought I asked some pointed questions of you based on your views and posts and you responded with more of the same. I say again: what “shame”? why did it have to be done as it was when it was? where are you going with this? why are you so upset with the minority - you got what you want, no?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Mary Landrieu and Ben Nelson are 2 of the biggest political whores in history. Amazing how the supporters of this piece of shit bill keep mentioning that dead fools Kennedys name as they say it was his life's work. His work was fucking over the taxpayer

[Dude!]

His work was fucking over the taxpayer

and drowning people

[tanless1]

You can throw all of the shit fits you want, but Senator Jim DeMint summed up the republican position on health care reform a long time ago:



They didn't give a fuck about this bill or reforming health care, all they wanted to do was score politics points. That is the definition of sitting on the sidelines and bitching like children.

The dems changing the locks didn't help things either... and the publicans have submitted alternative plans.

[tanless1]

Its good to see you've moved on to the third stage of loss, "bargaining".

This is not about bargaining, these are valid solutions ,.. smug bastard. Have you read any of my posts ? Most of my ideas are to benifit the community, supply a value to the citizen and involve people.....w/o goverment dictating terms.

The reasons we are unable to cordinate the style of clinic I refer to is " the deepest pocket". Should any company fund one....it is not the clinic that would pay...... it would be the funder, why risk everything you've built and the people you employ by helping even more people if that act of generosity could cost you everything ?

[tanless1]

Again epo, if you care to have a conversation, ill talk.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Dems Intend to Bypass GOP on Health Compromise (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wirestory?id=9476075&page=1)

Democratic aides said the final compromise talks would essentially be a three-way negotiation involving top Democrats in the House and Senate and the White House, a structure that gives unusual latitude to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada and Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California.

I guess this development is no surprise, but it should put to rest any notion that this administration and the congressional majority are interested in bi-partisan participation in remaking 1/6 of our economy.

[angrymissy]

The hospital referenced in my previous post just sent me a survey! Like an old lady, I filled it out in a scathing tone!

[A.J.]

The hospital referenced in my previous post just sent me a survey! Like an old lady, I filled it out in a scathing tone!

"The sea was angry that day my friends....like angrymissy trying to send back a survey to a hospital."

http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/the-sea-was-angry-that-day-my-friends-like-an-old-man-trying-to-send-back-soup-in-a-deli-64841.jpg

[west milly Tom]

Dems Intend to Bypass GOP on Health Compromise (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wirestory?id=9476075&page=1)




I guess this development is no surprise, but it should put to rest any notion that this administration and the congressional majority are interested in bi-partisan participation in remaking 1/6 of our economy.


The compromise is the language stating no future congress can amend this bill. Its beautiful because it will be successfully challenged.

[Serpico1103]

They didn't give a fuck about this (insert any topic), all they wanted to do was score politics points. That is the definition of sitting on the sidelines and bitching like children.

Unfortunately, I think this describes every politician I can think of.
And we instead of trying to fix our own parties, we just attack the other. When in fact, we should attack our own parties for failing us.
Republicans for allowing religion to be a major part of their platform.
Democrats for tolerating pro-business and pro-war democrats.

The parties won't change if we continue to vote based on our hate of the other parties platform.

[SonOfSmeagol]

wow...
and i fell for his lies

http://www.breitbart.tv/the-c-span-lie-did-obama-really-promise-televised-healthcare-negotiations/

These are the man’s own words – they were pretty clear. Yet now there seems to be a lot of backpedaling and re-interpretation. This really is outrageous.

I’d like to know what in the following (including links) speaks well for the WH, Robert Gibbs, Nancy Pelosi, and rest on this issue:

Obama catches heat over breaking campaign promise of openness (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100107/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1049)

One of my favorites: "But some are defending the White House by saying that holding the negotiations behind closed doors is simply a necessary evil for getting a bill passed in the current political environment."

Uh, what environment is that? It must be the current one, no? Where the majority has absolute control.

[LordJezo]

The Amish are exempt..

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20100109/NEWS02/301099964

I wonder if their ranks will swell as people flock to them in order to avoid the terror that forced healthcare and mandatory prison for dodgers will bring to this country.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

BHO cuts deal with union thugs. Non union members, go to hell

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/business/20100114_ap_apsourcestentativedealonhealthbilltax. html

[badmonkey]

BHO cuts deal with union thugs. Non union members, go to hell

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/business/20100114_ap_apsourcestentativedealonhealthbilltax. html

More proof that the days of special interest groups running Washington DC are over!

[Bob Impact]

BHO cuts deal with union thugs. Non union members, go to hell

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/business/20100114_ap_apsourcestentativedealonhealthbilltax. html

Now that's change you can believe in!

[Dude!]

Now that's change you can believe in!

this is all just so corrupt

if scott brown wins tuesday
the dem health care bill
crashes and burns
along with cap and trade
and so many other things

believe in the Massachusetts Miracle

[WRESTLINGFAN]

this is all just so corrupt

if scott brown wins tuesday
the dem health care bill
crashes and burns
along with cap and trade
and so many other things

believe in the Massachusetts Miracle


Im not religious at all but I am praying Brown wins

[Dan 'Hampton]

I don't really like him but it's better than that pursemouthed pantsuited bitch.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Is it dead?

I think they have to pass something, or else they're gonna look really bad.

[Dude!]

Is it dead?

I think they have to pass something, or else they're gonna look really bad.

of course it is dead
along with the rest of the agenda

[WRESTLINGFAN]

of course it is dead
along with the rest of the agenda

Don't be surprised if they try to use reconciliation in the senate where 51 votes are needed or if Snowe or Collins pulls a Spector

[Dude!]

Don't be surprised if they try to use reconciliation in the senate where 51 votes are needed or if Snowe or Collins pulls a Spector

it will NOT happen
you can discount Fox, but
listen to Washington Week in Review
and Chris Matthews and others

these guys are in panic mode
and nothing BIG can be done now

they make take non-controversial
items from the health care bill
and put them through separately
but that is it

[SonOfSmeagol]

they make take non-controversial
items from the health care bill
and put them through separately
but that is it

I hope they do at least that or else a lot of this past year will have been a colossal waste of time, energy, and money.

[tanless1]

How many pages does it take to say an insurance company can not drop a client once they become gravely ill....let's start there. Real reform/real simple

[Dude!]

How many pages does it take to say an insurance company can not drop a client once they become gravely ill....let's start there. Real reform/real simple

or you can get a quote
from 20 companies
outside your state

[Recyclerz]

How many pages does it take to say an insurance company can not drop a client once they become gravely ill....let's start there. Real reform/real simple

This is the exact thing that the insurance companies will fight to the death against. If the most expensive (ie. the people who are the sickest) are guaranteed coverage and the younger, healthier people don't buy insurance then there is no spreading of risk and coverage becomes too expensive for anybody but Congress to afford. Which is where we are all heading right now even if you have subsidized coverage through your job.

Obama and the Dems have done a poor job of explaining the benefits of changing the system, in fact the very necessity of it, because our current system is unsustainable in anything but the shortest terms. There are people in this country (maybe a majority in a hat tip to the political skills of the nihilist Republicans) who are willing to fight to the death to defeat this bill when they don't understand what it will or won't do. The whole country is becoming as dysfunctional as California to get anything, even critical things done. Matybe it is time to hand the crown to the Chinese and let them run things. :wallbash:

[epo]

Round 2 starts this week.

[Dude!]

Round 2 starts this week.

your people are suicidal

[epo]

your people are suicidal

Racist.

[TeeBone]

This is such a Dog-and-Pony-Show. I cannot believe any of these people have been elected to public office. Starting with the President (AKA-'He Who Must Not Be Named') and moving on down the line of the other luminaries in the room, I simply refuse to believe these power hungry bastards are tasked with solving the country's Health Care needs. 'He Who must not Be Named,' sounds like he is peddling Snake Oil and the rebuttals are also ridiculous. Both sides spouting, 'facts' that seem illogical. Its good in one sense that political pressure FINALLY got 'He Who Must Not Be Named' to the table and televise these debates like he promised a year and half ago, but this will solve nothing other than looking good in front of a camera. His stammers and prickery and being highlighted without his TelePrompTer at the ready and the fossil contingent on the Republican side is just utterly embarrassing. HArry Reid and Ole' Smiley Pelosi should be ashamed of themselves for pretending to want to compromise with these people. They loathe these people and will do their best to force this travesty of a bill down our throats despite the overwhelming majority of Americans not being in favor of the current bill's form. This televised debate will change nothing. I hope I am wrong, but I do not think I am. I am so damn distraught by this. Its sad that these people represent all of us. SO DAMN SAD!!!!

[Serpico1103]

Who can't be named? Is a fictional wizard president?

[TeeBone]

'He Who Must Be Named' is getting his ass handed to him. He is incapable of answering ANYTHING without his TelePrompTer or an aide whispering something into his ear.

I'd like to once again bring up my OBAMA DRINKING GAME-----
TAKE A DRINK EVERY TIME OBAMA OFFERS UP AN, 'UHHHHHH' or 'EHHHHHHH' AND YOU WILL BE DRUNK AS A SKUNK BEFORE HE REMINDS YOU THAT HE INHERITED ALL THESE PROBLEMS. The funny thing is that this bunch of snakes has taken a bad problem and made it a catastrophe.

It looks like Bobby Kennedy putting the boots to Jimmy Hoffa at this, 'Summit.' Eric Cantor is destroying the President. Look how pissed, 'He Who Must Not Be Named' is...This is a massive backfire for our President and whereas I am neither a Republican or a Democrat, this is just unreal to see. The Democrats have had twice as much air time and have offered half the substantive material as the Republicans.

[StanUpshaw]

Live on CSPAN
http://www.c-span.org/Topics/Health-Care-Insurance-Reform-Legislation-Town-Hall.aspx

[Serpico1103]

My confidence grows in a person when lunatics attack them as a wizard or snake. I have hope. I want change. I hope for change. Cast those change spells warlock obama.

[epo]

Anybody who has heard Eric Cantor's weak-ass talking points more than once would be either bored or pissed at him for delivering such horseshit.

Either way, this is something we've never really seen before in American politics. Its an interesting civics lesson for America.

[Ritalin]

'He Who Must Be Named' is getting his ass handed to him. He is incapable of answering ANYTHING without his TelePrompTer or an aide whispering something into his ear.

I'd like to once again bring up my OBAMA DRINKING GAME-----
TAKE A DRINK EVERY TIME OBAMA OFFERS UP AN, 'UHHHHHH' or 'EHHHHHHH' AND YOU WILL BE DRUNK AS A SKUNK BEFORE HE REMINDS YOU THAT HE INHERITED ALL THESE PROBLEMS. The funny thing is that this bunch of snakes has taken a bad problem and made it a catastrophe.

It looks like Bobby Kennedy putting the boots to Jimmy Hoffa at this, 'Summit.' Eric Cantor is destroying the President. Look how pissed, 'He Who Must Not Be Named' is...This is a massive backfire for our President and whereas I am neither a Republican or a Democrat, this is just unreal to see. The Democrats have had twice as much air time and have offered half the substantive material as the Republicans.

Teebone, I think you're funny as hell, but come back to Earth. The teleprompter thing is straight TeaBag psyops. The man taught constitutional law at Chicago - I think he can string a couple of sentences together.

If you want to make fun of the way he talks, I'd go for the times when he rolls up his sleeves and starts talking about "folks" and droppin his "g"s. That's just embarrassing, and I wish he'd stop it.

[Dude!]

If you want to make fun of the way he talks, I'd go for the times when he rolls up his sleeves and starts talking about "folks" and droppin his "g"s. That's just embarrassing, and I wish he'd stop it.

i bet you liked this though:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yQYdg3LYqJE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yQYdg3LYqJE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[StanUpshaw]

I wish we'd toss a billion or so into subsidizing medical school costs. Let's attack this shit from the supply side.

[epo]

I wish we'd toss a billion or so into subsidizing medical school costs. Let's attack this shit from the supply side.

I like the idea. I also am a huge fan of the quality incentives (rather than quantity) for health providers as well as increasing community health centers to reduce unnecessary emergency room visits.

[Ritalin]

i bet you liked this though:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yQYdg3LYqJE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yQYdg3LYqJE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

No, I hate that shit. It's so pandering and condescending. I think the Repubs do it too, only they get twangier and more down homey.

Why can't people just deal with the fact that our politicians are for the most part educated and well spoken? Why is that a bad thing? I know why, but it bothers me when both sides do it.

[epo]

No, I hate that shit. It's so pandering and condescending. I think the Repubs do it too, only they get twangier and more down homey.

Why can't people just deal with the fact that our politicians are for the most part educated and well spoken? Why is that a bad thing? I know why, but it bothers me when both sides do it.

Smart is bad.

GIT R DONE!

[Dan 'Hampton]

Since when are they smart? It seems they are more interested in partisan politics than representing the people who voted for them. That makes sense?

[StanUpshaw]

Marsha Blackburn is totally fuckable.

[epo]

Since when are they smart? It seems they are more interested in partisan politics than representing the people who voted for them. That makes sense?

In general, we as an electorate don't reward smart, we reward partisanship. Until we punish partisanship versus our version of "representative" don't blame the politicians...blame the electorate.

[StanUpshaw]

Deficit reduction talk - tune in now!

[TeeBone]

If you want to make fun of the way he talks, I'd go for the times when he rolls up his sleeves and starts talking about "folks" and droppin his "g"s.
Or better still when he does TV adds aimed at white people whereupon he quotes his, 'Typically white' Grandmother by calling him, 'Buster.' That was the cringe-worthy moment of the campaign.

[StanUpshaw]

I'm fuckin starving...Earl, we have any doughnut holes back there?

[epo]

Or better still when he does TV adds aimed at white people whereupon he quotes his, 'Typically white' Grandmother by calling him, 'Buster.' That was the cringe-worthy moment of the campaign.

Pandering? Yes.

Most cringe-worthy? No.

That "celebrity" ad by McCain's camp was a fucking awful/cringy/racist/anti-foreigner thing that reminded all of us that America has a long ways to go in growing up.

[StanUpshaw]

Blue Dawgz in the house.

[Ritalin]

Or better still when he does TV adds aimed at white people whereupon he quotes his, 'Typically white' Grandmother by calling him, 'Buster.' That was the cringe-worthy moment of the campaign.

Yeah, kinda. The difference is, he doesn't talk folksy and downhome in real life - at least I'm 99 percent sure of that.

But he did have a white grandmother who called him Buster. It's not important to me, but there's fact and there's pretense.

It's like when Dick Cheney talks about his gay daughter and how he supports gay marriage.

(kidding)

[Pitdoc]

I wish we'd toss a billion or so into subsidizing medical school costs. Let's attack this shit from the supply side.



Yeah, but you have to go further..you have to give free tuition to people who want to go into the general practice specialties,and CUT subsidies for the other ones.. A general practitioner ( Medicine, Pediatrics) works 60 hrs a week for $80 K a year, while a radiologist/anesthesiologist/ surgeon /dermatologist work 35 hrs a week for $250K. We need about 75% more generalists to take care of all these baby boomers, but they make up only 30% of graduates of medical schools..The rest are the "specialties" which pay 3 x as much for a LOT less work. As an emergency medicine doc, I'm somewhere inthe middle,and happy to be there. But they HAVE to cut all these goddamn high -paid specialists, or at least their compensation.

[StanUpshaw]

How far along in your education do you have to make those decisions?

If the market gets over-saturated with the specialists, how hard is it to switch focus? Surely there's a ceiling to how many dermatologists the country demands, right?

[Pitdoc]

You actually have till your last year of med school to really choose a specialty,if you choose one. Then you serve in a residency, for 3-5 yrs, depending on what you're going into ( 3 yrs for Internal Medicine, emergency Med, Pediatrics) but some are 4-5 yrs.. But there's actually no limits on how many specialists can be around,,If we made it limited,,people would be served a hell of a lot more. And most specialists work mostly in big cities..Try to get a specialist up north where I work, because the money is better in NYC than in Syracuse .So, a glut of specialists in NYC,,and people waiting months for back surgery in northern NY.


..and as for dermatologists,they're REALLY who need to be limited..Probably 95% of their visits end with "Well, lets put a steroid cream on that" .For that they earn 3 x what a regular doctor makes,who works twice as much. Residencies ARE limited, so some specialties can get by by charging exorbitant prices. WE have to make it WORTHWHILE to want med students want to take care of regular medicine patients.

[StanUpshaw]

What is your opinion on the malpractice issue?

Is it a fraction of a percent of the total health care cost, or is it the leading factor in driving h.c. inflation?



edit: Thank you for taking your time to answer some questions. As much as I value Serpico and WF's opinions on the matter, it's good to have the perspective of someone who's actually in the field.

[Serpico1103]

You actually have till your last year of med school to really choose a specialty,if you choose one. Then you serve in a residency, for 3-5 yrs, depending on what you're going into ( 3 yrs for Internal Medicine, emergency Med, Pediatrics) but some are 4-5 yrs.. But there's actually no limits on how many specialists can be around,,If we made it limited,,people would be served a hell of a lot more. And most specialists work mostly in big cities..Try to get a specialist up north where I work, because the money is better in NYC than in Syracuse .So, a glut of specialists in NYC,,and people waiting months for back surgery in northern NY.


..and as for dermatologists,they're REALLY who need to be limited..Probably 95% of their visits end with "Well, lets put a steroid cream on that" .For that they earn 3 x what a regular doctor makes,who works twice as much. Residencies ARE limited, so some specialties can get by by charging exorbitant prices. WE have to make it WORTHWHILE to want med students want to take care of regular medicine patients.

I go to a dermatologist and that is all they ever do. "Here is some cream, hope it gets better. Didn't work? Here is some more." Like you said, I think most of the time, they are hoping time cures the issue, not their medical expertise.

Out of residence long? My gf might do hers in Buffalo for Med-Peds. Tried to talk her out of going to that snowy wasteland.

[A.J.]

Shocker: that health care summit was a complete waste of time.

[Bob Impact]

I go to a dermatologist and that is all they ever do. "Here is some cream, hope it gets better. Didn't work? Here is some more." Like you said, I think most of the time, they are hoping time cures the issue, not their medical expertise.

Out of residence long? My gf might do hers in Buffalo for Med-Peds. Tried to talk her out of going to that snowy wasteland.

You're going to a shitty dermatologist.

[Pitdoc]

What is your opinion on the malpractice issue?

Is it a fraction of a percent of the total health care cost, or is it the leading factor in driving h.c. inflation?



edit: Thank you for taking your time to answer some questions. As much as I value Serpico and WF's opinions on the matter, it's good to have the perspective of someone who's actually in the field.

Malpractice is definately NOT the cause of the high cost of medicine, but it sure doesn't help . I've been sued 3 times. Once by a daughter of a patient who died who thought I didnt order the right test to determine her father had an aortic aneurysm. Of course, I DID , but it didnt matter to her..The patient died 8 days after his surgery, or a wound infection caused by his surgery.She sued the hospital and ME ( NOT the surgeon) . It got dropped before it went to trial, but I got fired for "not being sensitive to a patient's needs". The second time I admitted a patient, who died a day and a half later . That was also dropped before trial . The third time, I was sued by a patient I didnt even SEE!!! . That ,of course was dropped, but because of that I was refused malpractice insurance when I moved to a different job. So,,,never went to COURT for a malpractice case, but refused malpractice insurance regardless. Now, the same company who insured me said that I couldnt get malpractice insurance for $20 K a year, but they WOULD put me in the NY state "insurance pool" ,which they run .The cost? $97K a year!! So , they turned me down for 20K, for NEVER having been found guilty of malpractice, but they WILL take me for 97K? Once again,its insurance companies who are willing to rape you.
Now, does malpractice cause us to orde more tests? HELL yes!! We order probably 25% more tests just to "cover our asses" rather than do what we think is probably right .And thats passed on to you.

[Syd]

Tort reform is nothing other than allowing the government to place an exact worth of your life in writing, in law.

For all you anti-big government types, how do you reconcile allowing the government to determine your worth?

Regardless, here are articles concerning tort reform and why it isn't a major issue, just a major talking point.

http://www.factcheck.org/president_uses_dubious_statistics_on_costs_of.html

http://makethemaccountable.com/myth/RisingCostOfMedicalMalpracticeInsurance.htm

http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/would-tort-reform-lower-health-care-costs/

http://www.joepaduda.com/archives/000243.html

Last being the money shot:

Malpractice and defensive medicine
Yes, the US has more malpractice suits per capita than other nations (twice as many as in the UK and Australia, and 3.5 times more than in Canada). But, and here's the big "but", the average award in the US was 14% lower than in Canada, 36% less than the average in the UK, and slightly higher than Australia's average expense (the other countries studied for this factor). So, while our "frequency" is higher, our "severity" (cost per claim) is lower.

Notably, the total impact of malpractice expenses as a percentage of US health care costs was less than 0.5%. That does not factor in defensive medicine - but even the highest estimate of the excess costs resulting from defensive medicine adds but 9% to our total costs - not enough to explain the difference in total costs between the US and other OECD countries.

[tanless1]

Pitdoc has got it, most towns can afford to rotate students in and out on a 3-5 year plan , provide house and a 50k working salary post school......money well pent.
If you give this power/money to govt it will end up like social sec. Stolen for political gain.

You don't want these knuckle heads involved. The solutions lay with us.

[StanUpshaw]

Tort reform is nothing other than allowing the government to place an exact worth of your life in writing, in law.

For all you anti-big government types, how do you reconcile allowing the government to determine your worth?

Regardless, here are articles concerning tort reform and why it isn't a major issue, just a major talking point.

http://www.factcheck.org/president_uses_dubious_statistics_on_costs_of.html

http://makethemaccountable.com/myth/RisingCostOfMedicalMalpracticeInsurance.htm

http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/would-tort-reform-lower-health-care-costs/

http://www.joepaduda.com/archives/000243.html

Last being the money shot:

A nine percent savings is still a substantial figure. Weighed against what? A hypothetical "What if a coked up big pharma doctor accidentally sawed your mother's head off" scare tactic?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Reconcilation is a strong possibility, but it will be political suicide for the Dems. Be careful what you wish for Reid and Pelosi

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100226/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul

[StanUpshaw]

I think it's a good move politically. They're dead in the water as it is, but if they push this through and it somehow turns out to be a winner, then another term is in the bag.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I think it's a good move politically. They're dead in the water as it is, but if they push this through and it somehow turns out to be a winner, then another term is in the bag.

if there are more backroom deals like Nebraska and Louisiana, deals for unions etc. and its passed, its going to be a November Massacre

[Serpico1103]

You're going to a shitty dermatologist.

I have gone to many. They don't bother to diagnose the issue. Just "here is a topical, thanks for the co-pay and insurance."

If I had a real issue, I am sure they would eventually take their time. But, I usually go for simple eczema, heat rash, or hives. I know they need to do a quick turn around to pay the bills, but a little personal attention would nice.
Went to orthopedist yesterday. Made an appointment a month ahead of time, 4pm appointment. I got there at 3:50. I didn't see the doctor until 5:15. And all shitty magazines.

[booster11373]

I have gone to many. They don't bother to diagnose the issue. Just "here is a topical, thanks for the co-pay and insurance."

If I had a real issue, I am sure they would eventually take their time. But, I usually go for simple eczema, heat rash, or hives. I know they need to do a quick turn around to pay the bills, but a little personal attention would nice.
Went to orthopedist yesterday. Made an appointment a month ahead of time, 4pm appointment. I got there at 3:50. I didn't see the doctor until 5:15. And all shitty magazines.

My guy has Penthouse in the waiting room

[Bob Impact]

I have gone to many. They don't bother to diagnose the issue. Just "here is a topical, thanks for the co-pay and insurance."

If I had a real issue, I am sure they would eventually take their time. But, I usually go for simple eczema, heat rash, or hives. I know they need to do a quick turn around to pay the bills, but a little personal attention would nice.
Went to orthopedist yesterday. Made an appointment a month ahead of time, 4pm appointment. I got there at 3:50. I didn't see the doctor until 5:15. And all shitty magazines.

Sorry to hear it. My dermatologist is actually my favorite doctor as it comes to quality of care, she seems way more engaged than anyone else I deal with.

[StanUpshaw]

How about we also relax the whole "prescription" drug thing, too. Is the republic going to crumble if we're allowed to buy a little OTC prednisone? Do I really need to see the fucking middle man?

[Serpico1103]

Sorry to hear it. My dermatologist is actually my favorite doctor as it comes to quality of care, she seems way more engaged than anyone else I deal with.
I am sure there are good ones. If I cut my finger I can buy band aids. If I get an eczema or some hives I don't want a doctor.

How about we also relax the whole "prescription" drug thing, too. Is the republic going to crumble if we're allowed to buy a little OTC prednisone?

They do need to loosen control over things that an adult can administer safely. I don't know about any cream addicts. But, go to a doctor, make up a bullshit story and they will give you any number of habit forming drugs.

[StanUpshaw]

Here's another idea: I can spend $2.95/minute talking with a tranny in Sao Paulo over the webcam. Why can't we do the same thing with a doctor or nurse? I shouldn't have to leave my house to get my kid's fucking pink eye diagnosed.

[Serpico1103]

Here's another idea: I can spend $2.95/minute talking with a tranny in Sao Paulo over the webcam. Why can't we do the same thing with a doctor or nurse? I shouldn't have to leave my house to get my kid's fucking pink eye diagnosed.

I am sure we are headed that way. Of course, litigation will ensue. But, it will move towards that as more people are comfortable communicating over the web.

I read they have performed surgeries over the internet. The doctor remotely controlled the devices. Many surgeries are done now with the doctor watching a screen, not the patient, so it will also shift to that.
Some guy in India doing your ACL surgery.

Oh yeah, what's that website?

[sailor]

You can't look in ears, etc. effectively over a webcam. For what you're saying it's just as effective over the phone which is a bit silly.

Where do you people find all these shitty doctors?

[Serpico1103]

You can't look in ears, etc. effectively over a webcam. For what you're saying it's just as effective over the phone which is a bit silly.

Where do you people find all these shitty doctors?

NYC, worst health-care in the nation.

Remote surgery
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/innovation/episode7_essay1.html

[disneyspy]

once has a chick tell me i should be in real estate over the web cam cuz i had a lot

[sailor]

NYC, worst health-care in the nation.

Remote surgery
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/innovation/episode7_essay1.html

I live in NYC as well and almost never have a doctor that isn't incredible and also caring/involved.

And I meant diagnosing shit over your webcam, btw, not remote surgery if that link was for me.

[StanUpshaw]

You can't look in ears, etc. effectively over a webcam. For what you're saying it's just as effective over the phone which is a bit silly.

Where do you people find all these shitty doctors?

So Logitech will put out a new camera with a close-focus and a little light on it. Package it with a USB stethoscope and thermometer and sell for $39 as the iMedic. I'd wager 80% of my childhood doctors visits could have been eliminated by such a setup.

[Dude!]

I'd wager 80% of my childhood doctors visits could have been eliminated by such a setup.

even the anal warts?

[StanUpshaw]

The doctor giveth and he taketh away.

[hanso]

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Tell um Screech from Saved by the Bell AKA Rep. Anthony Weiner.

[TeeBone]

Tell um Screech from Saved by the Bell AKA Rep. Anthony Weiner.[/SIZE]

The aptly named Representative.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I guess Weiner doesnt know that the Democrats are whores to the labor unions

[Serpico1103]

I guess Weiner doesnt know that the Democrats are whores to the labor unions

There is that republican in you.
Protecting your party from any outside threats.

[hanso]

Power to the Corp's/Inc's. Give war a chance.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Power to the Corp's/Inc's. Give war a chance.

BHO Seems to think so

[hanso]

Its his SC is it? He started 2 wars while lowering taxes did he?

[epo]

Its back on bitches. This bill will be signed by the end of the month.

Jezo's Gym will never be the same...

[Dude!]

Its back on bitches. This bill will be signed by the end of the month.

you were wrong the first time
and are wrong again

[epo]

you were wrong the first time
and are wrong again

Oh please, tell me how your people are gonna stop us now...

[Dan 'Hampton]

This bill is going to puss out and not solve the real problems. If it's anything like what we have in Massachusetts were in for trouble. Were paying a hundred bucks a week for two healthy adults. Because that is what the state deems fair. F all those pols.

[Dude!]

Oh please, tell me how your people are gonna stop us now...

it is not my people, racist

middle-of-the-road joe-6-pack
has said loud and clear
in VA and NJ and above all MA
take your fucking waste-of-time health plan
and shove it

we want you to work on the fucking
economy and fucking jobs you cretins

and yet
here you go again

just plain unbelievable

[epo]

just plain unbelievable

I know! Isn't it going to be great when the bill passes?

[Dude!]

I know! Isn't it going to be great when the bill passes?

you'll never know
'cause it won't happen
in your lifetime

[epo]

you'll never know
'cause it won't happen
in your lifetime

Why don't you check back with me about 12:30pm tomorrow. You may be singing a different tune.

[A.J.]

Oh please, tell me how your people are gonna stop us now...

With the power of Starship.

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[epo]

Reconciliation!

Its true, its damn true.

[Bob Impact]

Reconciliation!

Its true, its damn true.

Reconciliation is quite possibly the worst way the democrats could go about this, they're going to be losing a LOT of seats in mid-terms.

[Zorro]

Reconciliation is quite possibly the worst way the democrats could go about this, they're going to be losing a LOT of seats in mid-terms.

As Obama said "that's why they have elections"

[StanUpshaw]

It would be a goddamn shame if we ended up having more than a 5% turnover in congress.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

As Obama said "that's why they have elections"

And if theres a massacre in November the bill might be repealed. Also there are going to be scores of lawsuits if this disaster is passed

[Zorro]

And if theres a massacre in November the bill might be repealed. Also there are going to be scores of lawsuits if this disaster is passed

I doubt your massacre will appear and there's always scores of lawsuits...

[epo]

Reconciliation is quite possibly the worst way the democrats could go about this, they're going to be losing a LOT of seats in mid-terms.

Depends upon how its framed by the democrats. If they can frame it as "we had to go this route because republicans wouldn't help you w/access, pre-existing conditions, etc." then they could have political gold.

It also depends upon who wins the "reconciliation" argument. This is a very common procedure that has been used for:


Bush Tax Cuts
Welfare Reform
Balanced Budget Act of 1997
COBRA Insurance Act
EMTLA
Children's Health Insurance Program

That's just a couple. This is not unusual, especially when facing 41 votes that refuse to work with the majority and truly believe that killing this bill would be the President's "Waterloo". (McConnell)

[underdog]

It also depends upon who wins the "reconciliation" argument.

The Democrats are retards. They'll lose any argument.

[foodcourtdruide]

The Democrats are retards. They'll lose any argument.

I agree. The republicans can present this argument in ANY way, and the democrats will ineffectively combat it. Regardless of truth.

[epo]

The Democrats are retards. They'll lose any argument.

I agree. The republicans can present this argument in ANY way, and the democrats will ineffectively combat it. Regardless of truth.

Bullshit. The talking points are simply:

We were overwhelmingly elected by the American public to pass an agenda of change. This bill is a part of that mandate that we are working to fulfill.

As democrats, we have and will continue to get this shit done.

Done and done.

[foodcourtdruide]

Bullshit. The talking points are simply:



Done and done.

Yes, and after 80% of Americans believe whatever bill Obama presents is a socialist-fascist-totalitarian that will kill their grandmother and turn them gay, the democrats will back down and oppose Obama so they get re-elected in 2010/2012.

[underdog]

Bullshit. The talking points are simply:



Done and done.

You're crazy if you think these democrats can do anything simply or effectively. They had the largest majority in decades and they couldn't get a health care bill passed. They're pussies and the bullies that are the republicans just keep beating them up and stealing their lunch money. And the general public keeps siding with the bullies.

[underdog]

Yes, and after 80% of Americans believe whatever bill Obama presents is a socialist-fascist-totalitarian that will kill their grandmother and turn them gay, the democrats will back down and oppose Obama so they get re-elected in 2010/2012.

Absolutely.

[epo]

You're crazy if you think these democrats can do anything simply or effectively. They had the largest majority in decades and they couldn't get a health care bill passed. They're pussies and the bullies that are the republicans just keep beating them up and stealing their lunch money. And the general public keeps siding with the bullies.

They need to stop fucking around and bein' pussies!

"We're the Democratic Party, and we get shit done."

As easy as it gets.

[Recyclerz]

Yes, and after 80% of Americans believe whatever bill Obama presents is a socialist-fascist-totalitarian that will kill their grandmother and turn them gay, the democrats will back down and oppose Obama so they get re-elected in 2010/2012.

I think it is a very loud 25% who believe that and the other 55% were just looking in to see what the fuss was about. I could be wrong about this but I suspect, that by design or lucky accident, Obama could snatch victory out of the jaws of defeat here. The anti-"Obamacare" story has controlled the terms of the debate in the MSM until recently when Obama starts showing up on enemy turf acting all reasonable and such. The Tea Party narrative has been pretty much exhausted (except for Fox & followers) so now the fresh new narrative for the rest of the media is that Obama and the Dems tried to engage the Reps who flipped them the finger. (0 votes for the bills. Imagine!) So the bill gets passed by reconciliation, the world doesn't immediately end and the lightly engaged majority of the electorate starts to wonder what all the Republican yelling was about. If the program turns out to be decent public policy (which I suspect it is) and the economy starts to recover somewhat, the Dems stave off disaster in 2010 (they'll lose a bunch of seats in any case because they have more than their "equilibrium level" because the public turned on Bush/Cheney and the Reps. so hard in '06 and '08) and might be looking better in 2012.

That's what elections are for. :wink:

[Zorro]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704548604575097602436388116.html?m od=WSJ_hps_sections_opinion

[WRESTLINGFAN]

They still don't get it. The taxpayers do not want that 2700 page piece of garbage in its present form

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100304/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul

[Serpico1103]

They still don't get it. The taxpayers do not want that 2700 page piece of garbage in its present form

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100304/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul

I want to know about non-taxpayers.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I want to know about non-taxpayers.

Someone send Anderson Cooper to interview a bunch of 7th graders

[Serpico1103]

Someone send Anderson Cooper to interview a bunch of 7th graders

SO, non-tax payers don't have rights? Interesting. Who else do you want to rob of basic rights?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

SO, non-tax payers don't have rights? Interesting. Who else do you want to rob of basic rights?

Douches who didnt get the meaning of my reply

[Serpico1103]

Douches who didnt get the meaning of my reply

While I would fight to protect your right to be a douche.
I guess that separates us perfect Dems from those on the dark side (right wing).

[WRESTLINGFAN]

While I would fight to protect your right to be a douche.
I guess that separates us perfect Dems from those on the dark side (right wing).

Perfect dem what an oxymoron.

[epo]

They still don't get it. The taxpayers do not want that 2700 page piece of garbage in its present form

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100304/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul

The people elected the Democratic Party to make change happen, and this is a part of that change.

We get shit done!

[Dude!]

The people elected the Democratic Party to make change happen, and this is a part of that change.

We get shit done!

the only things you've actually done
are to keep Gitmo open
and send more troops to Afghanistan

just like Bush would have done

[Serpico1103]

Perfect dem what an oxymoron.

I see you figured out the term.
Sort of like libertarian government.

[Dan 'Hampton]

But that's not CHANGE.

[epo]

the only things you've actually done
are to keep Gitmo open
and send more troops to Afghanistan

just like Bush would have done


Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act
Re-authorized SCHIP
Reversed Stem Cell Policy
Regulations on Greenhouse Gases
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act
Bailout of Detroit
August 2010 Planned Withdraw of Iraq
Shifted focus to Afghanistan
Abolishing torture


In other words, more in 1 year than Bush did in 8 years. We're the Democratic Party, the party that America elects to get shit done!

[Serpico1103]

Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act
Re-authorized SCHIP
Reversed Stem Cell Policy
Regulations on Greenhouse Gases
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act
Bailout of Detroit
August 2010 Planned Withdraw of Iraq
Shifted focus to Afghanistan
Abolishing torture


In other words, more in 1 year than Bush did in 8 years. We're the Democratic Party, the party that America elects to get shit done!

:clap::innocent::clap:I knew my savior was working hard for CHANGE, giving my HOPE reason to continue.

I thought all he did all day was hold open the door to Gitmo and carry soliders to Iraq and Afghan on his back.
Didn't realize he had time to do other things.

[Dude!]

August 2010 Planned Withdraw of Iraq

"planned"?
oh yes, that is a real accomplishment

is that like the planned closing
of Gitmo?

[Serpico1103]

"planned"?
oh yes, that is a real accomplishment

is that like the planned closing
of Gitmo?

:glurps::glurps:
Aw, my president does more than yours! :thumbup::innocent::thumbup:

I am so glad they allowed Obama to be president even though there should be a separation between church and state.
When will they change the money? "In Obama We Trust."

[hanso]

rec-skull fucking-conciliation

[Bob Impact]

:clap::innocent::clap:I knew my savior was working hard for CHANGE, giving my HOPE reason to continue.

I thought all he did all day was hold open the door to Gitmo and carry soliders to Iraq and Afghan on his back.
Didn't realize he had time to do other things.

Don't forget, he needs to find time to run major car companies and a fifth of the economy in there too.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

:glurps::glurps:
Aw, my president does more than yours! :thumbup::innocent::thumbup:

I am so glad they allowed Obama to be president even though there should be a separation between church and state.
When will they change the money? "In Obama We Trust."

That makes me an Atheist

[Dan 'Hampton]

I have a runny nose this morning. I'm going to grab Claritan. Now do i go to the mayor and ask for the 15 bucks first or do i bring him a receipt later?

[Serpico1103]

I have a runny nose this morning. I'm going to grab Claritan. Now do i go to the mayor and ask for the 15 bucks first or do i bring him a receipt later?
Are you a white male with a job? Cough up the 15 and another 15 so some lazy person can get it free.

[Dan 'Hampton]

I would need 2 kids to get anything for free in this state.

[epo]

Anyone else notice that the Republicans are complaining about the Democrats "ramming it down their throats" because of the "size of their package".

Seriously, they need better talking points.

[SonOfSmeagol]

pretty apt description of Nancy Pelosi

[RADIO-SHARK]

sun...:devil2:

[Jujubees2]

An interesting paragraph from a story on how Sarah Palin once traveled into Canada for healthcare:

A report last spring by Deloitte Center for Health Solutions said 750,000 Americans travelled abroad for medical care in 2007, and forecast that number would rise to six million by 2010. That trend far outpaces the number of Canadians coming to the U.S. for medical treatment.

Palin admits family sought medical care in Canada (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2010/03/08/13158751-ap.html)

[keithy_19]

An interesting paragraph from a story on how Sarah Palin once traveled into Canada for healthcare:

A report last spring by Deloitte Center for Health Solutions said 750,000 Americans travelled abroad for medical care in 2007, and forecast that number would rise to six million by 2010. That trend far outpaces the number of Canadians coming to the U.S. for medical treatment.

Palin admits family sought medical care in Canada (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2010/03/08/13158751-ap.html)

Yeah, and look what happened to her kid. Good job Canada.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Reid complains the healthcare system sucks but his wife and daughter were not treated in Canada

[SonOfSmeagol]

Palin admits family sought medical care in Canada (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2010/03/08/13158751-ap.html)

Uh, you do realize that she was FIVE YEARS OLD. What a hypocrite, eh.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Premiums to drop by 3000% SIGN ME UP!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUd-slJc-GY

[Jujubees2]

Premiums to drop by 3000% SIGN ME UP!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUd-slJc-GY

Those people standing behind Obama look pretty bored,

[Serpico1103]

Uh, you do realize that she was FIVE YEARS OLD. What a hypocrite, eh.

More of a flip flop.

[The Bends]

Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act
Re-authorized SCHIP
Reversed Stem Cell Policy
Regulations on Greenhouse Gases
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act
Bailout of Detroit
August 2010 Planned Withdraw of Iraq
Shifted focus to Afghanistan
Abolishing torture


In other words, more in 1 year than Bush did in 8 years. We're the Democratic Party, the party that America elects to get shit done! Ladies and gentleman.......The brainwashed boys.................

You sound like a crazy, homer, sports fan.....

I love how shifting focus toward something, or planning something, is an accomplishment in your book......


Between the Patriot Act, and not closing Gitmo........Fumbling the handling of terrorist events, and hi indecisiveness on the war.....Dirty, back door dealings in getting what he wants, and putting this country into record debt.....Straining the relationships with other countries, and exposing the United States as a weak country....

Obama has been, simply put, a complete failor.....Let the spin, begin!


WE CAN CHANGE! WE CAN CHANGE!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I hope Pelosi does get the votes. and it stands at 215 I would love to see the look of disgust on that plastic face of hers.

[Ritalin]

Ladies and gentleman.......The brainwashed boys.................

You sound like a crazy, homer, sports fan.....

I love how shifting focus toward something, or planning something, is an accomplishment in your book......


Between the Patriot Act, and not closing Gitmo........Fumbling the handling of terrorist events, and hi indecisiveness on the war.....Dirty, back door dealings in getting what he wants, and putting this country into record debt.....Straining the relationships with other countries, and exposing the United States as a weak country....

Obama has been, simply put, a complete failor.....Let the spin, begin!


WE CAN CHANGE! WE CAN CHANGE!

Irony.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act
Re-authorized SCHIP
Reversed Stem Cell Policy
Regulations on Greenhouse Gases
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act
Bailout of Detroit
August 2010 Planned Withdraw of Iraq
Shifted focus to Afghanistan
Abolishing torture


In other words, more in 1 year than Bush did in 8 years. We're the Democratic Party, the party that America elects to get shit done!

SCHIP. Do we really need to expand bloated guhbmint programs?
Stimulus. Fail
Bailout of Detroit. Fail
August 2010. Will be delayed
Focus on Afghanistan. Continued Quagmire
Aboloshing Torture? Still going on. refer to renditions and expanding Bagram Prison


Getting it done. and making things worse

[WRESTLINGFAN]

SCHIP. Do we really need to expand bloated guhbmint programs?
Stimulus. Fail
Bailout of Detroit. Fail
August 2010. Will be delayed
Focus on Afghanistan. Continued Quagmire
Aboloshing Torture? Still going on. refer to renditions and expanding Bagram Prison


Getting it done. and making things worse

Add cap and tax to the list. A job killer. The senate does not even want to touch that

[Dude!]

On Friday March 19
it will be TWO MONTHS
since Scott Brown was elected

the message TWO MONTHS
ago was 'kill this healh plan'
and move on to the economy

the democrats have, despite that,
spent TWO MONTHS dithering

even the average joe's i talk too
are now beside themselves
and the outrage is building daily

it is perilous to ignore the people

[underdog]

On Friday March 19
it will be TWO MONTHS
since Scott Brown was elected

the message TWO MONTHS
ago was 'kill this healh plan'
and move on to the economy

the democrats have, despite that,
spent TWO MONTHS dithering

even the average joe's i talk too
are now beside themselves
and the outrage is building daily

it is perilous to ignore the people

Too.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Dennis Kucinich who got to ride on the nice shiny AF-1 is the latest to fold like a cheap suit. Way to hold onto your convictions douche!!!

[LordJezo]

I was just in a doctor's office, at the check in window they had a sign reading "We are no longer accepting new Medicaid patients"

It was some scary stuff, with the way things are going we will soon see that on doctor's offices across the nation, that new patients are no longer being accepted. We will have to get on waiting lists years long just to get a family physician.

[Jujubees2]

I was just in a doctor's office, at the check in window they had a sign reading "We are no longer accepting new Medicaid patients"

It was some scary stuff, with the way things are going we will soon see that on doctor's offices across the nation, that new patients are no longer being accepted. We will have to get on waiting lists years long just to get a family physician.

But I though that's what they did in Canada?

[angrymissy]

Absolutely disgusting.

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[LordJezo]

But I though that's what they did in Canada?

It's frightening to think that we will soon be in the same mess that they are.

[underdog]

It's frightening to think that we will soon be in the same mess that they are.

Exactly.

[Bob Impact]

Absolutely disgusting.
The guy throwing the money is the absolute worst... just the way he looks around for acceptance after he does it sickens me.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Dennis Kucinich who got to ride on the nice shiny AF-1 is the latest to fold like a cheap suit. Way to hold onto your convictions douche!!!

It's really too bad. I totally disagree with his politics but he has usually been crystal clear on where he stood. This time I think he's going to vote for it more because of the overall potential damage to bho if it doesn't pass, rather than what he feels are the merits of the bill. And who knows what rewards he was promised for his vote? Probably much more than just a ride on AF-1.

"If my vote is to be counted, let it now count for passage of the bill, hopefully in the direction of comprehensive health care reform."..."You do have to be very careful that the potential of President Obama's presidency not be destroyed by this debate.

"Hopefully in the direction"? Not exactly a resounding show of support.

[Ogre]

Too.

or maybe

http://girlpartytutus.com/images/girlpartytutus411.jpg

or maybe

http://www.globaldignity.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/desmond-tutu-halo.jpg

[SonOfSmeagol]

Absolutely disgusting.

My mom has Parkinson's really bad, as did my (ex) father-in-law. But when I saw this I only thought that cherry-picking a couple of people behaving badly at some rally really adds nothing to the debate. People behaving badly like that are easy to find and pretty much never represent the views of most, or even many, on either side.

[jleewach]

We suck. I want to move to antarctica and start a colony.

[Dude!]

We suck. I want to move to antarctica and start a colony.

good...get going

they just found shrimp
under the ice there...
so you'll have good seafood

[keithy_19]

My mom has Parkinson's really bad, as did my (ex) father-in-law. But when I saw this I only thought that cherry-picking a couple of people behaving badly at some rally really adds nothing to the debate. People behaving badly like that are easy to find and pretty much never represent the views of most, or even many, on either side.

I agree. Not everyone at an anti Iraq war rallies were calling Bush a Nazi.

[The Bends]

Absolutely disgusting.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6ik4f1dRbP8&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6ik4f1dRbP8&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object> Yeah, let's pick out a video of a few nuts to justify how bad people who are against this health care movement are....typical liberal tactic....

Yet, you fail to point out how politicians in both Nebraska and Louisiana are being bribed for their vote......Or how Obama is threatening political support to Dem's who don't give their vote......Or how Obama and Pelosi are backing away from their promise to make this a public vote.....

Yeah, way to tell the entire story....

[keithy_19]

Yeah, let's pick out a video of a few nuts to justify how bad people who are against this health care movement are....typical liberal tactic....

Hey, the guy got 2 bucks out of it....

[A.J.]

Absolutely disgusting.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6ik4f1dRbP8&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6ik4f1dRbP8&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Actually, it's no great shakes.

[LordJezo]

Walgreens cutting off new Medicaid patients nationally:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011367936_walgreens18m.htm

[sailor]

Walgreens cutting off new Medicaid patients nationally:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011367936_walgreens18m.htm

That page is filled with the most scurrilous lies! For shame, jezo. For shame!

[Serpico1103]

typical liberal tactic....

...Typical....racist....tactic....grouping......pe ople....together......based..........on......the.. .actions..of......a......few.

[angrymissy]

Yeah, let's pick out a video of a few nuts to justify how bad people who are against this health care movement are....typical liberal tactic....

Yet, you fail to point out how politicians in both Nebraska and Louisiana are being bribed for their vote......Or how Obama is threatening political support to Dem's who don't give their vote......Or how Obama and Pelosi are backing away from their promise to make this a public vote.....

Yeah, way to tell the entire story....

Your shtick is gettin old. OMG LIBERALZ!!!

Video is relevant to discussion, and there are plenty of people out there at these rallies like this. Just take a look at the fucking mob mentality that starts once the first guy gets going.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Please Barry!!!! Go On Your Asia Pac Trip

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

Yeah, let's pick out a video of a few nuts to justify how bad people who are against this health care movement are....typical liberal tactic....

Yet, you fail to point out how politicians in both Nebraska and Louisiana are being bribed for their vote......Or how Obama is threatening political support to Dem's who don't give their vote......Or how Obama and Pelosi are backing away from their promise to make this a public vote.....

Yeah, way to tell the entire story....

How do you post and do a radio show at the same time? :innocent: