How much better are we than the Chinese?

[Yerdaddy]

<p>Following the unanimous outrage over the Chinese treatment of dogs in <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/14/opinion/14niman.html?em&amp;ex=1174104000&amp;en=1f12b4119536b308&amp; ei=5087%0A" target="_blank">this&nbsp;locked&nbsp;thread</a>&nbsp;I'm wondering about alot of the questions raised in that thread: how would our outrage be different if it were happening in America? What if it wasn't dogs? Is it the people or the government that are ultimately responsible? </p><p>Well let's see.</p><p>A cattle rancher who raises cattle humanely wrote&nbsp;<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/14/opinion/14niman.html?em&amp;ex=1174104000&amp;en=1f12b4119536b308&amp; ei=5087%0A" target="_blank">this op-ed</a> about the pork industry. What do we think? </p><p>[quote]WITH some fanfare, the world&rsquo;s largest pork producer, Smithfield Foods, recently announced that it intended to phase out certain cages for its breeding females. Called gestation crates, the cages virtually immobilize pigs during their pregnancies in metal stalls so narrow they are unable to turn around. </p><p>Numerous studies have documented crated sows exhibiting behavior characteristic of humans with severe depression and mental illness. Getting rid of gestation crates (already on their way out in the European Union) is welcome and long overdue, but more action is needed to end inhumane conditions at America&rsquo;s hog farms.</p><p>Of the 60 million pigs in the United States, over 95 percent are continuously confined in metal buildings, including the almost five million sows in crates. In such setups, feed is automatically delivered to animals who are forced to urinate and defecate where they eat and sleep. Their waste festers in large pits a few feet below their hooves. Intense ammonia and hydrogen sulfide fumes from these pits fill pigs&rsquo; lungs and sensitive nostrils. No straw is provided to the animals because that would gum up the works (as it would if you tossed straw into your toilet). </p><p>In my work as an environmental lawyer, I&rsquo;ve toured a dozen hog confinement operations and seen hundreds from the outside. My task was to evaluate their polluting potential, which was considerable. But what haunted me was the miserable creatures inside. </p><p>They were crowded into pens and cages, never allowed outdoors, and never even provided a soft place to lie down. Their tails had been cut off without anesthetic. Regardless of how well the operations are managed, the pigs subsist in inherently hostile settings. (Disclosure: my husband founded a network of farms that raise pigs using traditional, non-confinement methods.)</p><p>The stress, crowding and contamination inside confinement buildings foster disease, especially respiratory illnesses. In addition to toxic fumes, bacteria, yeast and molds have been recorded in swine buildings at a level more than 1,000 times higher than in normal air. To prevent disease outbreaks (and to stimulate faster growth), the hog industry adds more than 10 million pounds of antibiotics to its feed, the Union of Concerned Scientists estimates. This mountain of drugs &mdash; a staggering three times more than all antibiotics used to treat human illnesses &mdash; is a grim yardstick of the wretchedness of these facilities.</p><p>There are other reasons that merely phasing out gestation crates does not go nearly far enough. Keeping animals in such barren environments is a serious deprivation. Pigs in nature are active, curious creatures that typically spend 10 hours a day foraging, rooting and roaming. </p><p>Veterinarians consider pigs as smart as dogs. Imagine keeping a dog in a tight cage or crowded pen day after day with absolutely nothing to chew on, play with or otherwise occupy its mind. Americans would universally denounce that as inhumane. Extreme boredom is considered the main reason pigs in confinement are prone to biting one another&rsquo;s tails and engaging in other aggressive behavior. </p><p>Finally, even if the gestation crate is abandoned, pork producers will still keep a sow in a narr

[patsopinion]

lots

[PapaBear]

<p>Lately, I've determined that the only bad people are people in general. Fortunately, they're not ALL bad.</p>

[A.J.]

We're not much better.&nbsp; The Chinese add mixed vegetables and tasty brown sauce to THEIR pork.

[CaptClown]

That's probably not going to stop me from eating meat. When my grandparents wee alive they used to live across the road from a slaughterhouse. I have seen that and much worse. Besides depression makes the bacon taste better.

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by CaptClown on 3-15-07 @ 7:53 AM</span>

[Reynolds]

I work at a food warehouse, and Smithfield is the cheapest pork, everyone gets them, and they dont stack worth a shit on pallets, so fuck smithfield.

[torker]

Now, I'm starvin'.

[Earlshog]

<p>pork chops taste good.... bacon tastes good...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img src="http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/adc/10101869A~John-Travolta-Pulp-Fiction-Posters.jpg" border="0" width="350" height="276" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><font face="Helv" size="2"><p>&nbsp;</p></font>

[Cleophus James]

<strong>patsopinion</strong> wrote:<br />lots<p>&nbsp;Stole my answer<br /> </p>

[blakjeezis]

<p>I got two answers, you decide which you like better:</p><p>Answer #1 - Rots.</p><p>Answer #2 - I would say we're way better than them. I mean, in peripheral vision alone we blow them away.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>In all seriousness, I dig the post. I love the ol' bait and switch philosophical proposition. It's never a bad thing to look at yourself objectively, or the same critical eye with which you judge others. Now, if only we could get the American voters to look at their respective parties the same way we might just be able to right this ship.&nbsp; </p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by blakjeezis on 3-15-07 @ 9:47 AM</span>

[FMJeff]

<p>My thread was not cruelty to animals used for food. It was about the chinese government exterminating household pets without asking for permission. It is a human and animal rights violation.</p><p>I'm not even going to start about conditions of animals used for food. We're all well aware. If you're not, you live in a cave. I think we all make a unconscious decision to accept this when we eat meat products. There are many products on the market, usually more expensive, reflecting markings that suggest the animal lived a healthy life and was butchered humanely. I strive to buy only those products. </p><p>Let me say this. I do not have a problem with killing animals for food. Killing is natural, eating meat is natural. What is unnatural is what Yerdaddy describes above. </p><p>Show your support by spending a little more for products where animals were treated humanely and you will send a strong message to meat farmers. </p><p>By the way, the culling of Chinese pet dogs started today.</p>

[angrymissy]

One easy cheaper thing you can do is buy Cage-Free Eggs.&nbsp; Those are not that much more expensive than regular eggs.&nbsp;&nbsp;

[CofyCrakCocaine]

<p>&quot;Billion more where they came from!&quot; -Benny Chang, Lethal Weapon 4</p><p>We'll have to worry about ourselves more right now. Chinese government annihilated a lovely region of China itself by building the Three Gorges Dam and wiping out a large section of the land around the Yangtze River. Bhuddist temples, homes, etc, and plenty of wildlife was wiped out in this grand project. The stated reason was to inhibit the annual flooding of the river, but it was really just a show-off gesture from the Chinese to prove they can build super structures that can be seen from space.</p><p>The pet culling policies are unsurprising. Chinese tend to mass slaughter things that get pesky. They're not liable to change any time soon...what is liable to change due to our opinions is how Americans treat animals, both the pets and the ones we eat. The piggy treatment is god-awful. KFC chicken beatings, and the making of veal and fougra (im sure i misspelled that, fuck you mr.fancypants!) are things that ought to be observed more closely by the public eye. China can go screw, far as I'm concerned. It's too far away for me to give a shit. I like Yerdaddy's point that we're not much better in how we treat things. </p><p>&nbsp;Isn't there some kind of public duck/goose culling going on in Chicago by chefs protesting the ban on fou grah? Heard it mentioned on Pennjellete's show, but don't know the details. If it's going on, how come they can do that shit with impunity? Put a leash on ourselves before we go around deciding countries thousands of miles away from us are bad for what they do. </p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[FMJeff]

<strong>CofyCrakCocaine</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&quot;Billion more where they came from!&quot; -Benny Chang, Lethal Weapon 4</p><p>We'll have to worry about ourselves more right now. Chinese government annihilated a lovely region of China itself by building the Three Gorges Dam and wiping out a large section of the land around the Yangtze River. Bhuddist temples, homes, etc, and plenty of wildlife was wiped out in this grand project. The stated reason was to inhibit the annual flooding of the river, but it was really just a show-off gesture from the Chinese to prove they can build super structures that can be seen from space.</p><p>The pet culling policies are unsurprising. Chinese tend to mass slaughter things that get pesky. They're not liable to change any time soon...what is liable to change due to our opinions is how Americans treat animals, both the pets and the ones we eat. The piggy treatment is god-awful. KFC chicken beatings, and the making of veal and fougra (im sure i misspelled that, fuck you mr.fancypants!) are things that ought to be observed more closely by the public eye. China can go screw, far as I'm concerned. It's too far away for me to give a shit. I like Yerdaddy's point that we're not much better in how we treat things. </p><p>&nbsp;Isn't there some kind of public duck/goose culling going on in Chicago by chefs protesting the ban on fou grah? Heard it mentioned on Pennjellete's show, but don't know the details. If it's going on, how come they can do that shit with impunity? Put a leash on ourselves before we go around deciding countries thousands of miles away from us are bad for what they do. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I believe there is a ban on fois grois in NYC. It won't be missed, lemme tell you. I've had the unfortunate opportunity to sample fois grois. If you like sweet liver, then its all you. </p>

[keithy_19]

<p>See, that's why I only eat animals that deserved to be made into delicious food. If I'm eating a bacon cheeseburger, it's ok cause the pig and cow raped a mom while her children were forced to watch. </p><p>Just a few days ago I had a steak made out of a cow that was into kiddy porn. </p><p>Oh the things I tell myself to let me sleep at night. </p>

[badmonkey]

<p>I eat meat because cowfarts cause global warming.&nbsp; </p><p>Every animal I eat offsets my own carbon footprint.</p><p>Kill a cow! Save the planet!&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/thumbup.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Badmonkey&nbsp;</p>

[Gvac]

I swear, if I didn't hate vegetables so much I'd become a vegetarian.

[cougarjake13]

this ----------------------------&gt;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;----------------------------------------------&gt;-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;-------------------------------------------------------------&gt;---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;-----------------------------------------------------------&gt;---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;----------------------------------------------&gt;-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;-------------------------------------------------------------&gt;---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;-----------------------------------------------------------&gt;---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;----------------------------------------------&gt;-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;-------------------------------------------------------------&gt;---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;-----------------------------------------------------------&gt;---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;----------------------------------------------&gt;-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;-------------------------------------------------------------&gt;---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------