Jesus' body is found! [Archive] - RonFez.net Messageboard

Judge Smails

02-23-2007, 05:00 AM

If this is true this could be the biggest thing in the history of history.  I'm betting this will be an astronomically bigger letdown than Al Capone's vault.  Can you imagine if we could get some DNA and clone him? (I saw it on an episode of Star Trek:TNG where they cloned the Klingon messiah)<a href="http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3368731,00.html">New film documents discovery of Jerusalem cave containing ten caskets believed to hold remains of Jesus, Mary, Mary Magdalene and others </a>The cave in which Jesus Christ was buried has been found in Jerusalem, claim the makers of a new documentary film.  If it proves true, the discovery, which will be revealed at a press conference in New York Monday, could shake up the Christian world as one of the most significant archeological finds in history. The coffins which, according to the filmmakers held the remains of Jesus of Nazareth, his mother Mary and Mary Magdalene will be displayed for the first timeon Monday in New York

Death Metal Moe

02-23-2007, 05:02 AM

Uh oh.  Seriously, this does worry me.  If there's some way to completely prove that Jesus' body is in there, it's gonna fuck with the entire Christian world, and people don't think when their faith is involved.This could be bad.

Bob Impact

02-23-2007, 05:04 AM

Clear me up on Christian mythology, should Jesus's body be on earth, or is it supposed to be physcially in heaven after the ressurection?

burrben

02-23-2007, 05:06 AM

carnies and rubes

mendyweiss

02-23-2007, 05:09 AM

<img src="http://www.tzivos-hashem.org/ArticleImages/REBBE-2.jpg" border="0" width="206" height="250" />I TOLD You !!!!

BoondockSaint

02-23-2007, 05:10 AM

Somebody's probably just going to build Mega Mall there.

Hottub

02-23-2007, 05:12 AM

<dl><dd>We believe in one God, <dl><dd>the Father, the Almighty </dd><dd>maker of heaven and earth, </dd><dd>of all that is seen and unseen. </dd></dl></dd></dl><dl><dd>We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, <dl><dd>the only Son of God, </dd><dd>eternally begotten of the Father, </dd><dd>God from God, Light from Light, </dd><dd>true God from true God, </dd><dd>begotten, not made, </dd><dd>one in Being with the Father. </dd><dd>Through him all things were made. </dd><dd>For us men and for our salvation <dl><dd>he came down from heaven </dd></dl></dd><dd>by the power of the Holy Spirit <dl><dd>he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. </dd></dl></dd><dd>For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; <dl><dd>he suffered, died, and was buried. </dd></dl></dd><dd>On the third day he rose again <dl><dd>in fulfilment of the Scriptures; </dd></dl></dd><dd>he ascended into heaven <dl><dd>and is seated at the right hand of the Father. </dd></dl></dd><dd>He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, <dl><dd>and his kingdom will have no end. </dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl><dl><dd>We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of Life, <dl><dd>who proceeds from the Father and the Son. </dd><dd>With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. </dd><dd>He has spoken through the Prophets. </dd><dd>We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. </dd><dd>We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. </dd><dd>We look for the resurrection of the dead, <dl><dd>and the life of the world to come. Amen. </dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl>

Death Metal Moe

02-23-2007, 05:12 AM

Bob Impact wrote: Clear me up on Christian mythology, should Jesus's body be on earth, or is it supposed to be physcially in heaven after the ressurection? That's what worries me.  It was always my understanding that Jesus' body was supposed to have ascended and if there's a corpse of a physical corpse down here, it's gonna be a problem.Ah, what am I worried about?  Christians will just not believe the people.  Facts never ruined religion before, they won't now.

This message was edited by Death Metal Moe on 2-23-07 @ 9:13 AM

booster11373

02-23-2007, 05:13 AM

WOW I have to digest this before I can make any other comments

booster11373

02-23-2007, 05:14 AM

Death Metal Moe wrote: Facts never ruined religion before, they won't now.Well said

walking joint

02-23-2007, 05:16 AM

why did they bury people in caves and not the ground?  i find it funny they are using DNA to back their findings.

Death Metal Moe

02-23-2007, 05:19 AM

walking joint wrote: why did they bury people in caves and not the ground?  i find it funny they are using DNA to back their findings.  That is true.  Science doesn's apply in hardcore Christian minds, so they'll dismiss it all.MAN did I jump the gun!  I forgot, people will just turn their backs on this, like they do any other facts that contradict the Bible.

foodcourtdruide

02-23-2007, 05:25 AM

Judge Smails wrote: If this is true this could be the biggest thing in the history of history.  I'm betting this will be an astronomically bigger letdown than Al Capone's vault.  Can you imagine if we could get some DNA and clone him? (I saw it on an episode of Star Trek:TNG where they cloned the Klingon messiah)<a href="http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3368731,00.html">New film documents discovery of Jerusalem cave containing ten caskets believed to hold remains of Jesus, Mary, Mary Magdalene and others </a>The cave in which Jesus Christ was buried has been found in Jerusalem, claim the makers of a new documentary film.  If it proves true, the discovery, which will be revealed at a press conference in New York Monday, could shake up the Christian world as one of the most significant archeological finds in history. The coffins which, according to the filmmakers held the remains of Jesus of Nazareth, his mother Mary and Mary Magdalene will be displayed for the first timeon Monday in New YorkThis would not be the biggest thing in the history of history. First of all, many pieces of the bible have been proven false or overstated by science (immediately, the story of Noah comes to mind). Christian's ignore these facts or simply write it off as, "well.. the story is not supposed to be a FACT, it is supposed to have meaning." Secondly, 70% of the world's population is NOT Christian and could really care less.

Dan 'Hampton

02-23-2007, 05:28 AM

Who are they going to use to compare the DNA?  David Koresh is already long dead.

walking joint

02-23-2007, 05:29 AM

well i guess my question would be what would the DNA prove other then the bodies they found were related to one another.  they can't link it to a specific person.  i'm not saying it is or isn't really the bodies just wondering what they can do with the DNA at this point.

mendyweiss

02-23-2007, 05:30 AM

dschef wrote: Who are they going to use to compare the DNA?  David Koresh is already long dead. I believe Mr. Bennington would be more than happy to give a blood sample

Dan 'Hampton

02-23-2007, 05:34 AM

This seems about as credible as that Iranian dictator nut claiming they cured aids.  Which is the crazy acusation curently being used by some genocidal nut in Africa.

Judge Smails

02-23-2007, 05:39 AM

dschef wrote: This seems about as credible as that Iranian dictator nut claiming they cured aids.  Which is the crazy acusation curently being used by some genocidal nut in Africa. Yeah, but don't you see: James Cameron's involved.  If this doesn't prove to be real, he'll just use CGI to MAKE it real.

cupcakelove

02-23-2007, 05:40 AM

Judge Smails wrote: dschef wrote: This seems about as credible as that Iranian dictator nut claiming they cured aids. Which is the crazy acusation curently being used by some genocidal nut in Africa. Yeah, but don't you see: James Cameron's involved. If this doesn't prove to be real, he'll just use CGI to MAKE it real.  Miss CGI Jesus.

Dan 'Hampton

02-23-2007, 05:44 AM

Maybe they found DNA on the "Holy Grail".

torker

02-23-2007, 05:55 AM

"Eat it." - Jesus H. Christ

K.C.

02-23-2007, 06:00 AM

I don't think it's going to be too big a deal. There hasn't been a lot of denial that Jesus historically existed as a human being. The dispute has mostly been the religious connotations. And finding the coffins and bodies does nothing to confirm or shatter the Christian believe that he ascended from the dead. Even if it did, Christians wouldn't except it...they'd deny it as a hoax. The biggest thing that may come of this is that they may prove Jesus looked more Arabic than White which would shatter a lot of people's images of him.    

This message was edited by K.C. on 2-23-07 @ 10:02 AM

EliSnow

02-23-2007, 06:02 AM

walking joint wrote: well i guess my question would be what would the DNA prove other then the bodies they found were related to one another.  they can't link it to a specific person.  i'm not saying it is or isn't really the bodies just wondering what they can do with the DNA at this point.I've heard that they are going to subpoena God for his DNA.  If he fails to provide the DNA, than there is a presumption that the body that is allegedly Jesus's is really his son.  Fucking legal loopholes.

Dan 'Hampton

02-23-2007, 06:02 AM

I'm saying why trust what is written on a grave from 2000 years ago?  No liars back then?

torker

02-23-2007, 06:04 AM

+

This message was edited by torker on 2-23-07 @ 10:06 AM

Furtherman

02-23-2007, 06:14 AM

burrben wrote: carnies and rubes Exactly.Jesus never existed.  This is a good way to make a buck off the sheep.

EliSnow

02-23-2007, 06:20 AM

Furtherman wrote: Jesus never existed. Actually, there is historical evidence that Jesus did exist.  I've head this on a number of occasions, and Wikipedia states: Most scholars in the fields of <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Biblical_studies" title="Biblical studies">biblical studies</a> and <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Historian" title="Historian">history</a> agree that Jesus was a <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Jew" title="Jew">Jewish</a> teacher from <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Galilee" title="Galilee">Galilee</a> who was regarded as a <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Faith_healing" title="Faith healing">healer</a>, was baptized by <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/John_the_Baptist" title="John the Baptist">John the Baptist</a>, was accused of <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Sedition" title="Sedition">sedition</a> against the <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Roman_Empire" title="Roman Empire">Roman Empire</a>, and on the orders of <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Roman_governor" title="Roman governor">Roman Governor</a> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Pontius_Pilate" title="Pontius Pilate">Pontius Pilate</a> was sentenced to death by <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Crucifixion" title="Crucifixion">crucifixion</a>.<a href="#_note-agree2">[1]</a>    A small minority argue that Jesus never existed as a historical figure, but merely as a metaphorical or <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Jesus_as_myth" title="Jesus as myth">fictional figure</a> syncretized from various non-Abrahamic deities and heroes.<a href="#_note-nonexist">[2]</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus</a>

This message was edited by EliSnow on 2-23-07 @ 10:20 AM

phixion

02-23-2007, 06:44 AM

if its really jesus there should be a few indentifiable things on the body like scratches on his forehead from the crown of thorns, he was a carpenter before he was 30 so there should be a way to see if teh body experienced much physical labor, and oh yeah dont forget when he was stabbed on the side of his stomach there should be a marker for that as well. but like moe said the christian community overlooks science on a daily basis that wont stop. but im more curious what this means for catholicism. catholics have been quicker than other religions to merge science and religion, thye explain that evolution does exist and it answers how god created us, they believe that the creation story was just a giant metaphor, and other things like that. and they entire religion is based upon jesus' resurrection, they feel that is the validation of their faith, so if he never was resurrected whats the faith based on now?   

Furtherman

02-23-2007, 06:45 AM

EliSnow wrote: Furtherman wrote: Jesus never existed. Actually, there is historical evidence that Jesus did exist.  I've head this on a number of occasions, and Wikipedia states: Most scholars in the fields of <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Biblical_studies" title="Biblical studies">biblical studies</a> and <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Historian" title="Historian">history</a> agree that Jesus was a <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Jew" title="Jew">Jewish</a> teacher from <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Galilee" title="Galilee">Galilee</a> who was regarded as a <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Faith_healing" title="Faith healing">healer</a>, was baptized by <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/John_the_Baptist" title="John the Baptist">John the Baptist</a>, was accused of <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Sedition" title="Sedition">sedition</a> against the <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Roman_Empire" title="Roman Empire">Roman Empire</a>, and on the orders of <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Roman_governor" title="Roman governor">Roman Governor</a> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Pontius_Pilate" title="Pontius Pilate">Pontius Pilate</a> was sentenced to death by <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Crucifixion" title="Crucifixion">crucifixion</a>.<a href="#_note-agree2">[1]</a>    A small minority argue that Jesus never existed as a historical figure, but merely as a metaphorical or <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Jesus_as_myth" title="Jesus as myth">fictional figure</a> syncretized from various non-Abrahamic deities and heroes.<a href="#_note-nonexist">[2]</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus</a>This message was edited by EliSnow on 2-23-07 @ 10:20 AM Wikipedia isn't exactly a respected source.  I'm sure there was someone like Jesus, in fact, there were others who claimed to be a god and even sons of god all around that time.  But the christian legend of Jesus is just a rehash of other pagan and even Egyptian legends.  If you look at the Egyptian god Horus, you'd swear he and Jesus were the same guy.  But an actual guy who walked on water and turned water into wine?  Gave sight to a blind man?  All attributed to an iconic figure that Paul created when he started Christianity and eventually was adopted by his minons to be told as truth as they became missionaries to the world.

MrPink

02-23-2007, 06:46 AM

Jesus physically went to Heaven.

phixion

02-23-2007, 06:52 AM

But the christian legend of Jesus is just a rehash of other pagan and even Egyptian legends.  If you look at the Egyptian god Horus, you'd swear he and Jesus were the same guy.  But an actual guy who walked on water and turned water into wine?  Gave sight to a blind man?  All attributed to an iconic figure that Paul created when he started Christianity and eventually was adopted by his minons to be told as truth as they became missionaries to the world. compare the stories of gilgamesh and noahs ark very very similar. why isnt there a kernel of truth to those stories? now im not saying  man saved all species of animals, i am saying however there was a flood around the mediteranean. the stories arent much alike, but they are linked to a  truth, the religious associations are just attachments the primitive people used to explain the strange happenings. same thing with jesus, i do believe jesus was alive, but i dont believe he was the son of god at least not more so than muhamad or abraham.  and why would paul create the false religion when peter is the rock it was founded on? peter was the first pope.

EliSnow

02-23-2007, 06:52 AM

phixion wrote: if its really jesus there should be a few indentifiable things on the body like scratches on his forehead from the crown of thorns, he was a carpenter before he was 30 so there should be a way to see if teh body experienced much physical labor, and oh yeah dont forget when he was stabbed on the side of his stomach there should be a marker for that as well. but like moe said the christian community overlooks science on a daily basis that wont stop. but im more curious what this means for catholicism. catholics have been quicker than other religions to merge science and religion, thye explain that evolution does exist and it answers how god created us, they believe that the creation story was just a giant metaphor, and other things like that. and they entire religion is based upon jesus' resurrection, they feel that is the validation of their faith, so if he never was resurrected whats the faith based on now?    Would the thorns really have been able to make scratches in the skull?  Maybe the skin, but not necessarily the skull.As for the physical labor, can you tell that from some skeletons?  Plus, I have to imagine that most men were doing physical labor at that time.As for the stomach stabbing, I didn't read the article, but again, wouldn't the body just be bones?  Unless the spear hit bone, how can you tell for that. I don't see a huge uproar in the christian community by this, because I don't see how they can conclusively prove that the body is Jesus.  And unless they can do that, the simple answer is that it isn't Jesus, and no beliefs are messed with.

Death Metal Moe

02-23-2007, 06:54 AM

MrPink wrote: Jesus physically went to Heaven. That was always my understanding.  The Christian religion was big on actual bodies.  Jesus' actual body is in heaven and he'll come back.  Your soul being attached to your physical body seems to be the reason why a lot of Christians don't approve of cremation.  You're supposed to bury your body because during the rapture, your soul will be restored to that body, just made living and whole again.

EliSnow

02-23-2007, 06:56 AM

Furtherman wrote: EliSnow wrote: Furtherman wrote: Jesus never existed. Actually, there is historical evidence that Jesus did exist.  I've head this on a number of occasions, and Wikipedia states: Most scholars in the fields of <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Biblical_studies" title="Biblical studies">biblical studies</a> and <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Historian" title="Historian">history</a> agree that Jesus was a <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Jew" title="Jew">Jewish</a> teacher from <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Galilee" title="Galilee">Galilee</a> who was regarded as a <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Faith_healing" title="Faith healing">healer</a>, was baptized by <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/John_the_Baptist" title="John the Baptist">John the Baptist</a>, was accused of <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Sedition" title="Sedition">sedition</a> against the <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Roman_Empire" title="Roman Empire">Roman Empire</a>, and on the orders of <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Roman_governor" title="Roman governor">Roman Governor</a> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Pontius_Pilate" title="Pontius Pilate">Pontius Pilate</a> was sentenced to death by <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Crucifixion" title="Crucifixion">crucifixion</a>.<a href="#_note-agree2">[1]</a>    A small minority argue that Jesus never existed as a historical figure, but merely as a metaphorical or <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Jesus_as_myth" title="Jesus as myth">fictional figure</a> syncretized from various non-Abrahamic deities and heroes.<a href="#_note-nonexist">[2]</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus</a>This message was edited by EliSnow on 2-23-07 @ 10:20 AM Wikipedia isn't exactly a respected source.  I'm sure there was someone like Jesus, in fact, there were others who claimed to be a god and even sons of god all around that time.  But the christian legend of Jesus is just a rehash of other pagan and even Egyptian legends.  If you look at the Egyptian god Horus, you'd swear he and Jesus were the same guy.  But an actual guy who walked on water and turned water into wine?  Gave sight to a blind man?  All attributed to an iconic figure that Paul created when he started Christianity and eventually was adopted by his minons to be told as truth as they became missionaries to the world.It's not always correct, but it does cite other sources for this very point, and as I said, I've seen other discussions about this fact.  As for the rest, your statement was that Jesus didn't exist.  I just said that most scholars believe he did.  I'm not saying that they believe or have proof that he walked on water, performed miracles, and was resurrected.  But there is a differenc

Captain Rooster

02-23-2007, 06:57 AM

where is the link? godsaidmansaid.com ? Are you sure it's not just some Mexican tourist (Hey-Zeus) would thought the cave was a quick way around an Israeli checkpoint?

Furtherman

02-23-2007, 06:58 AM

EliSnow wrote: But there is a difference between saying that he didn't exist, and that he didn't do the religion believes he did.  I see your point.

phixion

02-23-2007, 07:00 AM

Would the thorns really have been able to make scratches in the skull?  Maybe the skin, but not necessarily the skull.As for the physical labor, can you tell that from some skeletons?  Plus, I have to imagine that most men were doing physical labor at that time.As for the stomach stabbing, I didn't read the article, but again, wouldn't the body just be bones?  Unless the spear hit bone, how can you tell for that. i bring those things up because i was watching a documentary about pompei and this forensic scientist or some shit picked up a small bone off the ground looked at for a few minutes and then went into detail saying this bone is from a woman, you can see she had at least x amount of children, then they ran some tests and gave you some weird details about her life like she was probably from the upper class, she was beginning to get osteoporosis and she had an std i forget which one. and the reason why i say the throns could scratch the bone is cause the skin over your forehead is fairly thin, and i cant imagine roman soldiers placed it on his head gently they probably forced it on there and given that he carried the cross while wearing the thors the cross had to hit the crown at least once and that wouldve been hard enough hit to at least scratch the skull.

MrPink

02-23-2007, 07:01 AM

cupcakelove

02-23-2007, 07:01 AM

If you guys keeping arguing, you're going to make baby Jesus cry.

Captain Rooster

02-23-2007, 07:03 AM

Stomach stabbing? I think he was pierced through his side ... possibly scratching one of the rib bones.

EliSnow

02-23-2007, 07:05 AM

phixion wrote: Would the thorns really have been able to make scratches in the skull?  Maybe the skin, but not necessarily the skull.As for the physical labor, can you tell that from some skeletons?  Plus, I have to imagine that most men were doing physical labor at that time.As for the stomach stabbing, I didn't read the article, but again, wouldn't the body just be bones?  Unless the spear hit bone, how can you tell for that. i bring those things up because i was watching a documentary about pompei and this forensic scientist or some shit picked up a small bone off the ground looked at for a few minutes and then went into detail saying this bone is from a woman, you can see she had at least x amount of children, then they ran some tests and gave you some weird details about her life like she was probably from the upper class, she was beginning to get osteoporosis and she had an std i forget which one. and the reason why i say the throns could scratch the bone is cause the skin over your forehead is fairly thin, and i cant imagine roman soldiers placed it on his head gently they probably forced it on there and given that he carried the cross while wearing the thors the cross had to hit the crown at least once and that wouldve been hard enough hit to at least scratch the skull. There is a limit to what one can do with a person's remains, especially when all you have are bones.  You can probably see scratches (if something was hard enough to scratch the bone (which I don't know if thorns are) and healed and non-healed fractures.  And you can probably tell a number of other things.  But a number of the things you point out would  not conclusively prove that the body is Jesus, without a DNA test.  And without a comparator (from a source you know to be related to Jesus), you can't tell what the body is.

Midkiff

02-23-2007, 07:06 AM

I hope it IS true, and the body IS somewhere. However, the bible-thumping rubes will dismiss it as pure sacrilege (sp?) anyway. Idiots.

EliSnow

02-23-2007, 07:07 AM

Captain Rooster wrote: Stomach stabbing? I think he was pierced through his side ... possibly scratching one of the rib bones. Possibly, but it depends where on his side he was speared.  It could have been lower than the ribs on the body.

Dan 'Hampton

02-23-2007, 07:09 AM

$100 on it being a poorly done hoax.Or guerilla ad for the new Indiana Jones Movie. 

This message was edited by dschef on 2-23-07 @ 11:13 AM

badorties

02-23-2007, 07:13 AM

Basedow

02-23-2007, 07:28 AM

EliSnow wrote: Captain Rooster wrote: Stomach stabbing? I think he was pierced through his side ... possibly scratching one of the rib bones. Possibly, but it depends where on his side he was speared. It could have been lower than the ribs on the body.the story about him being crucified is likely true but it cant be proven that the crown of thorns, the lancing of his side or any other forensic details are actual facts of the crucifixion event. even if this body has no markings consistent with the new testament stories it will not DISprove that this is the corpse of Christ. If the body does have those marks it will certainly give more credibility to the discovery but it won't conclusively prove that the corpse is Christ's. I really don't think there will be anyway to tell with any certainty. also i know it seems a little coincidental that the names on the caskets were the names given to the family of christ in the bible, but tons of guys were named Joshua back then who also had mothers named mary and fathers named joseph. anybody who wants to claim that this isnt the body of christ can point to any of these things and say that there is no shred of conclusive proof. 

This message was edited by Basedow on 2-23-07 @ 11:31 AM

TheMojoPin

02-23-2007, 07:33 AM

Jesus' body is found!And he tastes terrible!

EliSnow

02-23-2007, 07:36 AM

Basedow wrote: the story about him being crucified is likely true but it cant be proven that the corwn of thorns, the lancing of his side or any other forensic details are actual facts of the crucifixion event. even if this body has no markings consistent with the new testament stories it will not DISprove that this is the corpse of christ. If the body does have those marks it will certainly give more credibility to the discovery but it wont conclusivly prove that the corpse is christ's. i really dont think there will be anyway to tell with any certainty.also i know it seems a little coincidental that the names on the caskets were the names given to the family of christ in the bible, but tons of  guys were named Joshua back then who also had mothers named mary and fathers named joseph. anybody who wants to claim that this isnt the body of christ can point to any of these things and say that there is no shred of conclusive proof.  Exactly.  And they have to conclusively prove that the remains are from Jesus Christ.  Without that, why would there be any type of upheaval?  Christians wouldn't be idiots, hypocrites, or have their heads in the sand for choosing their beliefs over this proof because it is not conclusive.  The grave could even been a set up back after Jesus died (by the Romans or the Hebrew leaders) seeking to discredit the growing Christian religion.

angelinad128

02-23-2007, 07:50 AM

Right now I can only say interesting.

nate1000

02-23-2007, 08:32 AM

dschef wrote: Who are they going to use to compare the DNA?  David Koresh is already long dead. A communion wafer?

Furtherman

02-23-2007, 08:34 AM

nate1000 wrote: dschef wrote: Who are they going to use to compare the DNA?  David Koresh is already long dead. A communion wafer? <img src="/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/laugh.gif" border="0" width="20" height="20" />

Jujubees2

02-23-2007, 09:00 AM

I don't know if he's dead or alive but look at what I found on my toast this morning.<img src="http://bioweb.usu.edu/taste/images/jesus%20toast.JPG" border="0" width="300" height="400" />

Mike Teacher

02-23-2007, 09:28 AM

If they found the body wouldn't that mean Easter is cancelled?

nate1000

02-23-2007, 09:40 AM

No, you're good for Easter- its the Feast of the Ascension that will have to be cancelled. From here on it will be called the Feast of the Oops, Nevermind.

booster11373

02-23-2007, 10:45 AM

After some thought....Wouldnt his DNA have only one set of chromosones since it was a virgin birth? no contribution from a fatherand corretct me if Im wrong but not to long ago wasnt there a casket found with the inscription Jesus' brother on it?, well if these 2 samples match then Jesus had siblings so thats a strike against christanity right there, because they state he had no siblingsThis is a really big deal I hope its gets alot more press

This message was edited by booster11373 on 2-23-07 @ 2:45 PM

EliSnow

02-23-2007, 10:54 AM

booster11373 wrote: After some thought....Wouldnt his DNA have only one set of chromosones since it was a virgin birth? no contribution from a fatherYou don't think that a being that created the universe couldn't add a paternal set of chromosones?  You're not going to find any type of "proof" in the DNAand corretct me if Im wrong but not to long ago wasnt there a casket found with the inscription Jesus' brother on it?, well if these 2 samples match then Jesus had siblings so thats a strike against christanity right there, because they state he had no siblingsThis is a really big deal I hope its gets alot more pressThis message was edited by booster11373 on 2-23-07 @ 2:45 PM Your statement is faulty for a number of reasons.  First, it assumes that the remains they found are actually Jesus' when it can't be proven that they are.  So if you can't prove that the alleged "Jesus" is Jesus, then you can't prove that anyone related to the alleged "Jesus" is actually a relative of Jesus.  Second, I do think the gospels do say that Jesus has brothers, but the Catholic Church's position is that he didn't, and that such references are not indicative of an actual sibling relationship.   So even if you could prove that the body is actually Jesus' brother, which it can't be proven, then it merely requires a reinterpretation of the Gospel (at least with regard to the position about Jesus having siblings).  

This message was edited by EliSnow on 2-23-07 @ 2:57 PM

AgnosticJihad

02-23-2007, 11:00 AM

They won't be able to prove anything with DNA, unless they discover that the alleged carcass of Jesus' DNA is incredibly complex, or otherwise beyond what is normal for human beings. This could somehow prove his divinity, but of course that isn't going to happen. As to whether or not Jesus' body should've remained on Earth or not, that probably varies depending on whether you're talking about Catholics or Lutherans or Pentacostals or whatever.

EliSnow

02-23-2007, 11:06 AM

AgnosticJihad wrote: They won't be able to prove anything with DNA, unless they discover that the alleged carcass of Jesus' DNA is incredibly complex, or otherwise beyond what is normal for human beings. This could somehow prove his divinity, but of course that isn't going to happen. Bingo.

BoondockSaint

02-23-2007, 11:14 AM

booster11373 wrote:  and corretct me if Im wrong but not to long ago wasnt there a casket found with the inscription Jesus' brother on it?, well if these 2 samples match then Jesus had siblings so thats a strike against christanity right there, because they state he had no siblings This message was edited by booster11373 on 2-23-07 @ 2:45 PM <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article405483.ece" target="_blank">It was a hoax.</a>

nate1000

02-23-2007, 11:16 AM

I'm telling ya. Transubstantiate the wafer, check the DNA and your done. Easy as pie- Catholics have done this every Sunday for like 2,000 years. Problem solved. Now someone get on that.

AgnosticJihad

02-23-2007, 11:19 AM

I grew up in ruralMissouri. In Missouri, there are a lot of natural caverns, particularly in the central and southern parts of the state. Anyway, in the little town I grew up in, there was a series of caves just outside of town where all the local kids would explore and play in. One day, a couple of kids said they found a stone (or maybe clay) casket in one of the caves. The authorities were alerted, and it was found that a word was engraved on the casket. The word was not English, and some research was done on it. It turned out that it was a Kahokean (an ancient Indian civilization that lived in Missouri-Illinois) word, and translated to English meant "paleman" or "whiteman". The remains in the coffin were mostly dust, but there were a few intact bones, and carbon-dating put the remains at around 1900-2000 years old. People started using this discovery to claim that the Mormons were right: that Jesus had indeed come to North America and visited the Native Americans.

Thebazile78

02-23-2007, 11:29 AM

Bob Impact wrote: Clear me up on Christian mythology, should Jesus's body be on earth, or is it supposed to be physcially in heaven after the ressurection? It should not be here on Earth, but that's not because of the Resurrection.  It's because of the Ascension, described in Luke 24:50-53 <h5>The Ascension </h5> When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God. (Also described in Mark 16:19-20 and in Acts 1:1-11) The Resurrection of the Body, and, by extension, a Defeat of Death, is a central tenet of Christianity. People are gonna be PISSED about this. . .and to go to the first posting of this thread, yeah, I thought about that TNG episode, too.

andywhat?

02-23-2007, 11:37 AM

I am a christian and i do believe in jesus. but finding his body will only mean more war.

sailor

02-23-2007, 11:47 AM

Jujubees2 wrote: I don't know if he's dead or alive but look at what I found on my toast this morning.<img src="http://bioweb.usu.edu/taste/images/jesus%20toast.JPG" border="0" width="300" height="400" /> oh, yeah?!<img src="http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l25/madrigalq/1010.jpg" border="0" width="400" height="400" />

Furtherman

02-23-2007, 12:02 PM

andywhat? wrote: I am a christian and i do believe in jesus. but finding his body will only mean more war. That's what religion does best!  Pits people against each other.  My god is better than your god!  Carnies and rubes.  I hope they do find out this guy was named jesus and then all will see bones and all that he was just a regular dude like the rest of us.  A bipedal hommind.  Nothing special.  And maybe a whole generation of children will learn that no man is better then themselves.  God, wouldn't that be great?!

Wallower

02-23-2007, 01:26 PM

I heard Geraldo opened the tomb and all he found was a couple of beer bottles.

FUNKMAN

02-23-2007, 01:28 PM

i want my own, personal, jesus!

Wallower

02-23-2007, 01:30 PM

The only proof I need would be a pair of 2000 year old jet boots.

Kevin

02-23-2007, 01:30 PM

The Evangelicals will kill Britney, so the news can cover that instead of Jesus being found.

torker

02-23-2007, 01:32 PM

Jesus "The Body" Ventura<img src="http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/1999/05/18/jesse-wwf.jpg" border="0" width="180" height="132" />

furie

02-23-2007, 01:38 PM

well, this would blow the DaVinci code theory. Mary went to Egypt, then France and died there rather than in Israel.

landarch

02-23-2007, 02:03 PM

Death Metal Moe wrote: MrPink wrote: Jesus physically went to Heaven. That was always my understanding.  The Christian religion was big on actual bodies.  Jesus' actual body is in heaven and he'll come back.  Your soul being attached to your physical body seems to be the reason why a lot of Christians don't approve of cremation.  You're supposed to bury your body because during the rapture, your soul will be restored to that body, just made living and whole again.I always thought Jesus' spirit ascended into heaven--although I do recall that he walked the earth for forty days after his resurrection.   For those who don't approve of cremation, what do they think about those who lose their bodies in other ways?  The biggest example that stands out to me is 9-11.  How many of those bodies were never found, or burnt to the point of cremation?

Justice4all

02-23-2007, 02:23 PM

Ok now this really disturbs me. I am a catholic. Although there are many things I do NOT believe in when it comes to the church. I DO believe in the teachings of my religious upbringing. Like Moe said, I have always believed that Jesus rose, body AND soul, up into heaven. As did Mary, his mother.There will never be a way to prove this is true or not. But the implications would really shake up peoples faith.Like the movie Dogma said, it is easier to change an idea but to change a belief? that is almost impossible.I know when the Gospel of Judas was found it was going to get buried under alot of nonsense. The church is good for covering it's own ass. I think jesus IS looking down at how the church is run and shaking his head and going "I gave you a nice system and you fucked it up"But I am getting onto a different subject here.What it boils down to is, if this is remotely true, then the bible is going to be nit-picked apart. the catholic church, hell ALL of christianity will be under a mass re-structuring.I do not know what to make out of all of this. But I do know that I would want to see all the facts before I do think anything else. This could either be a fucked up prank or the biggest story ever.

torker

02-23-2007, 02:23 PM

Look how they massacred my boy...<img src="http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/gallery/2004/08/03/tintoretto_christ_tomb.jpg" border="0" width="250" height="350" />

cougarjake13

02-23-2007, 02:47 PM

Death Metal Moe wrote: Bob Impact wrote: Clear me up on Christian mythology, should Jesus's body be on earth, or is it supposed to be physcially in heaven after the ressurection? That's what worries me.  It was always my understanding that Jesus' body was supposed to have ascended and if there's a corpse of a physical corpse down here, it's gonna be a problem.Ah, what am I worried about?  Christians will just not believe the people.  Facts never ruined religion before, they won't now.This message was edited by Death Metal Moe on 2-23-07 @ 9:13 AM they'll just say that his physical body remained on earth entombed in the cave but his spirit and mind ascended into heaven

narc

02-23-2007, 03:03 PM

Of course this is a hoax. You guys have a lot of misconceptions that I can clear up. 1. There is no way to prove this is Jesus or not. It's not like they have Christ DNA lying around, as someone said. Otherwise we would have cloned him, like the Klingons did with Kayless. Going to historical records, there is barely anything about him. So then what would they have to go on? the name? There were plenty of guys named Jeshua (Jesus's actual first name) back then and plenty of people at that time were crucified.  Second of all, if it is his family's plot, it wouldn't be in Jerusalem. He and his family had very little connection with Jerusalem. Nearly all of his ministry takes place in and around the Sea of Galilee which is far to the North. Why wouldn't he and his family be buried where they spent most of their time? And don't give me that stuff from Luke about going to Jerusalem for the census. None of the other gospels say that and they just added it to fulfill a Jewish prophecy. 2. Furtherman - Most scholars believe Jesus did exist for a few reasons. There is more out there historically about his followers than there is about him. And from about the time they say he died, you can find Roman records of the time talking about this group loudly proclaiming Christianity and trying to convert people. The Roman records aren't conclusive as to whether the crucifixion happened. But crucifixion was an everyday thing back then (except on the Sabbath) and it wouldn't have necessarily been a big deal, so they wouldn't have noted it until someone made a stink about it. The point about his organization seems to be that there was a very early hierarchy in place from the get go, and hierarchys usually have one person at the top, and that religious zealots back then ordinarily weren't up for just making someone up out of thin air. The earliest Christian text dates from just after Jesus supposedly died, and it's just a collection of his quotes. Some of it is in the gospel, but a lot of it isn't. The most interesting thing about the Roman and Jewish records for the time is that Jesus is linked with John the Baptist, and there IS a lot of historical evidence for John the Baptist. John was apparently quite a big deal: he had a big following and made a lot of trouble for the Romans. The historical evidence even backs up what the Bible says about him baptizing people in the Jordan and wearing a hair shirt. It's probably likely that Jesus's ministry had a lot of overlap with John the Baptist, and for this reason, a lot of people give creedence to the fact that the Bible says they were cousins. Most scholars think they were at least related in some way. Not that anyone has brought this up, but this has interesting implications for a lot of the illuminati groups, since a lot of them have a special thing for John the Baptist (the Masons, for instance). 3. Christianity, when it spread adopted a lot of syncretist elements from pagan religions in order to appeal to the masses. The church leaders basically said "As long as you do x, y and z and don't do a, b and c, we don't care." So in terms of ceremony and iconography a lot was adopted but they kept out a lot of other things. Yes the idea of resurrection wasn't new - it had been around for thousands of years. But that part wasn't necessarily copied wholesale. The copying was more form than function. For example, Christianity borrowed a lot from the cult of Mithra. But the followers of Mithra celebrated by standing underneath a bull and then gutting it. That never made its way into Christianity. So you can't say that it's just the same thing because it really isn't. 4. Moe is right about the cremation thing, but there are a few caveats. The Catholic Church really hasn't said much about it lately (since the 70s basically) and what they have said has seemed to be more towards a spiritual resurrection. Otherwise, it's seriously night of the living dead

SatCam

02-23-2007, 07:05 PM

5. Someone already posted that this is a hoax.

someone suggested it was, but the post with the link to an article about a hoax was refferring to JHC's bro's tomb being found

reeshy

02-23-2007, 07:07 PM

Thankd Narc....I was going to post the same thing.....who knows who Jesus was......if you can prove it.......go away asshole!!!!

scottinnj

02-23-2007, 07:45 PM

Bob Impact wrote: Clear me up on Christian mythology, should Jesus's body be on earth, or is it supposed to be physcially in heaven after the ressurection? Physically up in Heaven.  He rose from the dead after being buried for three days, and if you read the Book of Acts, he gathered all his disciples, gave them a last sermon, and then was lifted into heaven, body and all in front of all of them.Then the disciples prayed and fasted for a while, then on the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit came down from Heaven, and entered into the disciples's souls.  That is the modern Christian.  Someone who believes in Jesus and has him in their "heart" (Meaning Soul) Mythology to some, and I respect that, but true to me.  It's all faith dude.