Top 10 people IMHO that killed modern music [Archive]

FMJeff

01-30-2007, 12:59 PM

I don't know what possessed me to write this but I've worked pretty much all day on it. I literally couldn't stop until it was out of my head and on "paper". It may suck, but I had to do this. It was...cathartic. 10) Timbaland<img src="http://static.last.fm/groupavatar/766611846fcb521214ee254342bc223a.jpg" border="0" width="140" height="140" />Do not be fooled by his boyish chub face. The man is a menace. The purpose of a producer used to be about manipulating a recording to bring out an artists original sound. No longer, though, as emerging artists with subsequently less and less talent seek out producers like Timbaland to give thier weak sound some gravitas. The result is a final product where the singer assumes a supporting role to the beats and arrangements of the producer. No one is more guilty of this practice than Timbaland. The ego of the man is infuriating; you will often find him standing side by side with the artist in thier music video if only to remind the population who made this song a number one single. His copycats are many, his sound reproduced ad infinitium by his equally talentless peers. From his garbage with Missy Elliot to his recent musical crib death of Nelly Furtado's "Loose", Timbaland is the angel of death for hip hop fans everywhere. 9) Nickleback<img src="http://www.ucalgary.ca/~ekowch/p/graphics/nickleback.jpg" border="0" width="200" height="201" />No one executes vaginal rock and roll better than Canada's own Nickleback. Often the victims of boos and water bottles to the head at most of thier live gigs, Nickleback's career defies logic; nay it spits in the face of logic. They are, in thier own way, a musical paradox, producing a string of platinum records for a population of music lovers that generally despises them. We have no one to blame but ourselves, and yet one cannot help but wonder when we all drank the Nickleback kool-aid. How can a band so lame, so anathema to quality rock music continue to dupe us again and again? Are we suckers for easily digestable garbage, or has medocrity become the status quo? In any case, Nickelback is the worst rock band ever, and I remember Europe. 8) Kurt Cobain<img src="http://www.variety.com/graphics/photos/variety100/cobain_kurt.jpg" border="0" width="250" height="167" />Thanks for killing yourself and leaving no one worthy to take your place. Thank you for killing grunge rock with a selfish shotgun blast to your face. Thank you for not taking your wife with you. We miss you, we need you. You were the Morrison of our generation, you were our John Lennon. Your lyrics never made any sense, and at the same time they made perfect sense. It all went to shit after you left, and yes, I blame you. Nobody else pulled the trigger...or did they?7) Lou Pearlman<img src="http://www.hitquarters.com/images/LouPearlman_150.jpg" border="0" width="150" height="252" />If there ever was a man to blame for re-igniting the boy band movement of the mid-to-late nineties, it is Lou Perlman. Inspired by the success of New Kids on the Block, this unoriginal portly jew and former charter airline executive created the Backstreet Boys and N'Sync. Hit after cookie cutter hit, this devilish chub chub continued to laugh in the face of superior male groups like the Righteous Brothers, The Four Seasons and The Temptations, proving without a doubt that boyish good looks is the only essential commodity you need to become successful in the music business.Although his creations have suffered a righteous death, the repercussions of his actions, like the memory of a child-molesting uncle, continue to haunt us to this very day.6) Creed<img src="http://www.radiohound.com/MaleCelebs/pics/creed.jpg" border="0" width="200" height="200" />In the mid 90's, no band executed uplifting cock rock numbers with overtly religious symbolism better

Don Stugots

01-30-2007, 01:03 PM

you ass!  you made me get teary eyed with what you said about cobain.  so true, so sad, so soon. i agree with the MTV cum stain and the ball licker from AI.  so for the fag and his beard wife from the ASSociation.

HBox

01-30-2007, 01:03 PM

8) Kurt Cobain<img src="http://www.variety.com/graphics/photos/variety100/cobain_kurt.jpg" border="0" width="250" height="167" />Thanks for killing yourself and leaving no one worthy to take your place. Thank you for killing grunge rock with a selfish shotgun blast to your face. Thank you for not taking your wife with you. We miss you, we need you. You were the Morrison of our generation, you were our John Lennon. Your lyrics never made any sense, and at the same time they made perfect sense. It all went to shit after you left, and yes, I blame you. Nobody else pulled the trigger...or did they?Now I'm all uncomfortable.

Team_Ramrod

01-30-2007, 01:04 PM

I'm impressed. Good work!Your selection for number 1 is perfect.  Now go get yourself some boobie milk for all that hard work.

Badinia

01-30-2007, 01:08 PM

That is a nice list and essay, thank you for sharing it with us.  Gwen Stefani's pop music makes me weep with shame.I want to put Smashing Pumpkins on there for popularizing heroin-chic bullshit teenage angst, but really it's because I personally hate them.

jetdog

01-30-2007, 01:09 PM

Bravo sir, bravo.

Earlshog

01-30-2007, 01:28 PM

good job sir!  how about weezer for creating pinkerton... while independently it was a brilliant piece of work it paved the way for emo...

Doogie

01-30-2007, 01:34 PM

Good fucking job partner. I love how you just tear the ass out of the two "pigs." I almost feel like grabbing a gun and organizing a posse and dragging these animals in the street.

Reephdweller

01-30-2007, 01:46 PM

Very well done Jeff!

narc

01-30-2007, 02:05 PM

Why isn't P-Diddy on this list?

burrben

01-30-2007, 02:10 PM

HBox wrote: 8) Kurt Cobain <img src="http://www.variety.com/graphics/photos/variety100/cobain_kurt.jpg" border="0" width="250" height="167" />Thanks for killing yourself and leaving no one worthy to take your place. Thank you for killing grunge rock with a selfish shotgun blast to your face. Thank you for not taking your wife with you. We miss you, we need you. You were the Morrison of our generation, you were our John Lennon. Your lyrics never made any sense, and at the same time they made perfect sense. It all went to shit after you left, and yes, I blame you. Nobody else pulled the trigger...or did they? Now I'm all uncomfortable.but now we have jack white to save the day

FMJeff

01-30-2007, 02:16 PM

narc wrote: Why isn't P-Diddy on this list? Well, why do you think he belongs there?

Snoogans

01-30-2007, 02:18 PM

that was like 30 people

narc

01-30-2007, 02:25 PM

I think he put an emphasis on derivation into music that wasn't there before. He's not an especially gifted rapper, so he made up for it by sampling people's music and focusing on production techniques and made his name that way. And by capitalizing off the memory of Biggie Smalls who actually was a talented rapper. I think he paved the way for people like Timbaland by showing that it didn't matter how terrible a rapper you were as long as you could polish the end-product turd with slick production and by overusing samples from popular songs, having a simple easy to understand message, lots of guest spots by "big names," and by having Hype Williams videos with a shit-ton of glitz but absolutely nothing beyond the surface. I hate him for foisting that upon us. But I also hate us for eating it up. But I think it goes even further because this made his brand of rap so popular that rock went back to the drawing board and came up with some of the worst shit ever - rock/rap (I blame puffy for Kid Rock and Limp Bizkit's popularity indirectly), nu-metal and the emo/pop/punk stuff that's just repackaged bullshit. So yeah, I guess I blame him for a lot.

Sheeplovr

01-30-2007, 02:35 PM

H stands for humble in IMHO

KnoxHarrington

01-30-2007, 05:47 PM

Fuller's a scumbag, but I'm not sure if he should be #1. I'd probably put Pittman on the top, followed by Mays, then Fuller.

TheMojoPin

01-30-2007, 05:54 PM

I don't quite agree with the Timbaland thing.  Granted, him showing up actually in the videos and on the songs sucks, but the guy has produced a boatload of quality songs.  The stuff he's done with Missy Elliot alone (calling it "garbage" is pretty absurd) should keep him far away from a list like this.  Keep him off the mic and not in front of the camera and I have no problem with him.  Same goes for Pharrell, too.  Dr. Dre is the only one that pulled off the rapper AND producer thing.I dunno, his political and business picks I agree with, but the actual musical choices seem lazy or flat out wrong.  Whoa, Nickleback sucks?  Creed is goddamned and godawful?  STOP TEH PRESSES!!!1!1!11!1And being the next Morrison isn't even close to being a good thing.  Way to insult the dead.

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-30-07 @ 10:02 PM

A.J.

01-31-2007, 07:19 AM

FMJeff wrote: 8) Kurt Cobain<img src="http://www.variety.com/graphics/photos/variety100/cobain_kurt.jpg" border="0" width="250" height="167" />you were our John Lennon. Only because he too married a controlling bitch.

Dougie Brootal

01-31-2007, 07:28 AM

i enjoyed the list and i think you're also a great writer to boot!keep it up man!

dolemyte

01-31-2007, 07:33 AM

Gotta vote for P-Diddy.. He ushered in the 'Shiny Suit' ear of rap that showed that materialism can sell over skills... which in turn was picked up by the major labels leading rap to where it is today..Flash over substance

ralphbxny

01-31-2007, 07:37 AM

Gwen Stefani stinks but she looks great.

AKA

01-31-2007, 07:59 AM

ralphbxny wrote: Gwen Stefani stinks but she looks great. She stinks...of bananas!<img src="http://www.jonco48.com/blog/bananas.jpg" border="0" width="171" height="144" />b-a-n-a-n-a-s!

Soupy_Dreck

01-31-2007, 08:28 AM

What about the awful, pee in my ears so I don't hear their music, Spin doctors?  I wish they would Kurt Cobain themselves.

FMJeff

01-31-2007, 08:30 AM

TheMojoPin wrote: I don't quite agree with the Timbaland thing.  Granted, him showing up actually in the videos and on the songs sucks, but the guy has produced a boatload of quality songs.  The stuff he's done with Missy Elliot alone (calling it "garbage" is pretty absurd) should keep him far away from a list like this.  Keep him off the mic and not in front of the camera and I have no problem with him.  Same goes for Pharrell, too.  Dr. Dre is the only one that pulled off the rapper AND producer thing.I dunno, his political and business picks I agree with, but the actual musical choices seem lazy or flat out wrong.  Whoa, Nickleback sucks?  Creed is goddamned and godawful?  STOP TEH PRESSES!!!1!1!11!1And being the next Morrison isn't even close to being a good thing.  Way to insult the dead.This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-30-07 @ 10:02 PM Yeah because being compared to one of the most original voices of sixties is always an insult. Sometimes I think you're anti everything for the sake of being anti everything, Mojo. You thought the Missy Elliot shit was music? Was it worth it? Did you work it? Did you put your thang down, flip it and reverse it? You still rock out to "get ur freak on" do you? Stop it. The music was absurd. "Let's make hip hop wacky". As for Creed and Nickleback, I didn't say the choices were original, ass. For me, this list is comprised of individuals that helped speed the death of music and specific genres. Nickleback killed popular rock & roll with thier power ballads disguised as hard rock and whiny vocals, imitated to this day by bands like Stone Sour and the newly christened "Daughtry". Creed helped Christian rock become immensely popular by creating a bridge between worlds. Gwen Stefani killed ska music when she could've saved it. Timbaland killed hip hop by making it about producer and production instead of the artist. Sure, one could argue the list differently, but that's the whole point of debate, isn't it? But yeah, good debate always begins with calling other people's viewpoints lazy.

JPMNICK

01-31-2007, 08:35 AM

FMJeff wrote: 7) Lou Pearlman<img src="http://www.hitquarters.com/images/LouPearlman_150.jpg" border="0" width="150" height="252" />If there ever was a man to blame for re-igniting the boy band movement of the mid-to-late nineties, it is Lou Perlman. Inspired by the success of New Kids on the Block, this unoriginal portly jew and former charter airline executive created the Backstreet Boys and N'Sync. Hit after cookie cutter hit, this devilish chub chub continued to laugh in the face of superior male groups like the Righteous Brothers, The Four Seasons and The Temptations, proving without a doubt that boyish good looks is the only essential commodity you need to become successful in the music business.Although his creations have suffered a righteous death, the repercussions of his actions, like the memory of a child-molesting uncle, continue to haunt us to this very day.Again with this? why do we always have to attack the jews?

foodcourtdruide

01-31-2007, 08:37 AM

FMJeff wrote: TheMojoPin wrote: I don't quite agree with the Timbaland thing.  Granted, him showing up actually in the videos and on the songs sucks, but the guy has produced a boatload of quality songs.  The stuff he's done with Missy Elliot alone (calling it "garbage" is pretty absurd) should keep him far away from a list like this.  Keep him off the mic and not in front of the camera and I have no problem with him.  Same goes for Pharrell, too.  Dr. Dre is the only one that pulled off the rapper AND producer thing.I dunno, his political and business picks I agree with, but the actual musical choices seem lazy or flat out wrong.  Whoa, Nickleback sucks?  Creed is goddamned and godawful?  STOP TEH PRESSES!!!1!1!11!1And being the next Morrison isn't even close to being a good thing.  Way to insult the dead.This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-30-07 @ 10:02 PM Yeah because being compared to one of the most original voices of sixties is always an insult. Sometimes I think you're anti everything for the sake of being anti everything, Mojo. You thought the Missy Elliot shit was music? Was it worth it? Did you work it? Did you put your thang down, flip it and reverse it? You still rock out to "get ur freak on" do you? Stop it. The music was absurd. "Let's make hip hop wacky". As for Creed and Nickleback, I didn't say the choices were original, ass. For me, this list is comprised of individuals that helped speed the death of music and specific genres. Nickleback killed popular rock & roll with thier power ballads disguised as hard rock and whiny vocals, imitated to this day by bands like Stone Sour and the newly christened "Daughtry". Creed helped Christian rock become immensely popular by creating a bridge between worlds. Gwen Stefani killed ska music when she could've saved it. Timbaland killed hip hop by making it about producer and production instead of the artist. Sure, one could argue the list differently, but that's the whole point of debate, isn't it? But yeah, good debate always begins with calling other people's viewpoints lazy. I agree with you Jeff. I think Missy Elliot, more than P-Diddy ushered in the "shiny suit" era of hip-hop. Her music was the pinnacle of monotonous beats and meaningless lyrics. At least P-Diddy did some amazing things with B.I.G., but Missy Elliot never put out anything of value. And I blame Timbaland partly for that.

Tenbatsuzen

01-31-2007, 08:44 AM

Jeff, I disagree with you about Simon Fuller.  Here's the reasons why... American Idol is marketing model designed to bring the people what they want... You bring up that Aretha wouldn't have gotten anywhere on Idol, and I disagree.  Fantasia, Ruben, and Hicks are examples of people not fitting the Pop Music "standard" for looks and getting record deals.  Of course, their albums didn't sell, but that's besides the point.NOBODY looks to "pop" music for artistic cred.

Tenbatsuzen

01-31-2007, 08:45 AM

A.J. wrote: FMJeff wrote: 8) Kurt Cobain<img src="http://www.variety.com/graphics/photos/variety100/cobain_kurt.jpg" border="0" width="250" height="167" />you were our John Lennon. Only because he too married a controlling talentless bitch.Fixed.

Furtherman

01-31-2007, 08:49 AM

Soupy_Dreck wrote: What about the awful, pee in my ears so I don't hear their music, Spin doctors?  I wish they would Kurt Cobain themselves.If this was 1992 I'd agree with you but you'd have to actively seek out and dig up Spin Doctors music to even hear it today.  They were a flash in the NYC music pan back then and never spawned any influenced bands.

narc

01-31-2007, 08:49 AM

I disagree with Jeff and Foodcourt about Missy. Say what you will about her, she doesn't sound like anyone else and is way more of an original than Puffy will ever be. Not to mention that she's a famous female rapper - quick name 5 besides her. She was also enormously influential in helping to establish the South as a breeding ground for rap and showing that you don't just have to be from NYC or LA. And if you actually read her lyrics, I would say they're a few grade levels up with a touch of tongue-in-cheek (and let's face it, tongue-elsewhere) that you don't get from Diddy. Oh yeah - and she can actually sing.

JPMNICK

01-31-2007, 08:52 AM

No one in music infuriates me for than Puffy. Maybe because i was such a HUGE fan of Biggie, and I feel like he used his death/success to launch his career. Granted, he might be a talented producer, but there was no reason for him to rap and come into the public eye.  Let me take that statement one step further and say how much I hate any producer who then tries to become their own musical act, and I am looking right at that broken jawed idiot Kanye West.

Snacks

01-31-2007, 10:08 AM

FMJeff wrote: TheMojoPin wrote: I don't quite agree with the Timbaland thing.  Granted, him showing up actually in the videos and on the songs sucks, but the guy has produced a boatload of quality songs.  The stuff he's done with Missy Elliot alone (calling it "garbage" is pretty absurd) should keep him far away from a list like this.  Keep him off the mic and not in front of the camera and I have no problem with him.  Same goes for Pharrell, too.  Dr. Dre is the only one that pulled off the rapper AND producer thing.I dunno, his political and business picks I agree with, but the actual musical choices seem lazy or flat out wrong.  Whoa, Nickleback sucks?  Creed is goddamned and godawful?  STOP TEH PRESSES!!!1!1!11!1And being the next Morrison isn't even close to being a good thing.  Way to insult the dead.This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-30-07 @ 10:02 PM Yeah because being compared to one of the most original voices of sixties is always an insult. Sometimes I think you're anti everything for the sake of being anti everything, Mojo. You thought the Missy Elliot shit was music? Was it worth it? Did you work it? Did you put your thang down, flip it and reverse it? You still rock out to "get ur freak on" do you? Stop it. The music was absurd. "Let's make hip hop wacky". As for Creed and Nickleback, I didn't say the choices were original, ass. For me, this list is comprised of individuals that helped speed the death of music and specific genres. Nickleback killed popular rock & roll with thier power ballads disguised as hard rock and whiny vocals, imitated to this day by bands like Stone Sour and the newly christened "Daughtry". Creed helped Christian rock become immensely popular by creating a bridge between worlds. Gwen Stefani killed ska music when she could've saved it. Timbaland killed hip hop by making it about producer and production instead of the artist. Sure, one could argue the list differently, but that's the whole point of debate, isn't it? But yeah, good debate always begins with calling other people's viewpoints lazy. I have to dis agree with you on missy, timbalnad and even puffy. I know you didnt mention pdiddy but others have. First it take a talent to create a totaly different style and sound off someone elese tracks/beats. The same goes for Missy and Timbaland, they have a different sound (or they did) in the hip hop arena. And no its not always about Just the artist. The producers and writes have alot to do with how a sound is created. So who cares that these producers want the spot light? I dont. Its actually funny that the artist usually isnt the one with all the talent. Yeah sometimes the artist is just a look and voice but there are others that create the music and should get the credit when deserved. Sometimes they are the real talent.

Tall_James

01-31-2007, 10:15 AM

Let's not forget about...<img src="http://www.mousestars.com/images/mmclogo.jpg" border="0" width="304" height="248" />For introducing the world to highly polished turds, grown in vats, bred to be pop stars.

Tall_James

01-31-2007, 10:16 AM

Bob Pittman should be Number One on that list.

TheMojoPin

01-31-2007, 10:31 AM

FMJeff wrote: TheMojoPin wrote: I don't quite agree with the Timbaland thing.  Granted, him showing up actually in the videos and on the songs sucks, but the guy has produced a boatload of quality songs.  The stuff he's done with Missy Elliot alone (calling it "garbage" is pretty absurd) should keep him far away from a list like this.  Keep him off the mic and not in front of the camera and I have no problem with him.  Same goes for Pharrell, too.  Dr. Dre is the only one that pulled off the rapper AND producer thing.I dunno, his political and business picks I agree with, but the actual musical choices seem lazy or flat out wrong.  Whoa, Nickleback sucks?  Creed is goddamned and godawful?  STOP TEH PRESSES!!!1!1!11!1And being the next Morrison isn't even close to being a good thing.  Way to insult the dead.This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-30-07 @ 10:02 PM Yeah because being compared to one of the most original voices of sixties is always an insult. Sometimes I think you're anti everything for the sake of being anti everything, Mojo.How am I "anti-everything" just because I really don't like the Doors?  I think they're massively overrated and I think Morrison's "original voice" usually sounds on par with the underwritten and over-emotional dreck me and countless other kids shoveled out in our high school creative writing classes.  That's just what I hear.You thought the Missy Elliot shit was music? Was it worth it? Did you work it? Did you put your thang down, flip it and reverse it? You still rock out to "get ur freak on" do you? Stop it. The music was absurd. "Let's make hip hop wacky".So hip-hop HAS to be serious?  That's funny, given that it's a music birthed from house and block parties with the idea of getting the crowd going.  Missy's is, in my opinion, some of the best hip-hop in THAT regard in the genre's history, and Timbaland is a big part of it.  I do agree that most of the producers who want to get up in the videos and try and rhyme usually end up coming across pretty awful, and Timbaland is one of them...but there are far, FAR worthier targets for "bad hip-hop."  You say Timbaland "killed hip-hop" by giving the producer more attention?  I say that's ridiculous.  The producer is just the modern version of the classic hip-hop DJ, which has been a very integral and visible part of hip-hop since the beginning.As for Creed and Nickleback, I didn't say the choices were original, ass. For me, this list is comprised of individuals that helped speed the death of music and specific genres. Nickleback killed popular rock & roll with thier power ballads disguised as hard rock and whiny vocals, imitated to this day by bands like Stone Sour and the newly christened "Daughtry". Creed helped Christian rock become immensely popular by creating a bridge between worlds. Gwen Stefani killed ska music when she could've saved it. Timbaland killed hip hop by making it about producer and production instead of the artist. Sure, one could argue the list differently, but that's the whole point of debate, isn't it? But yeah, good debate always begins with calling other people's viewpoints lazy. Why can't I say I think they're lazy?  You obviously put this list out there for people to read...did you expect everyone to flock back and not have any opposing views?  I don't see that as some kind of personal attack...it's just my opinion about some of your choices on your list.  I see Creed and Nickleback as two sides of the same coin...it's far too generous to both to give them sepe

Snacks

01-31-2007, 10:43 AM

Yeah because being compared to one of the most original voices of sixties is always an insult. Sometimes I think you're anti everything for the sake of being anti everything, Mojo. How am I "anti-everything" just because I really don't like the Doors?  I think they're massively overrated and I think Morrison's "original voice" usually sounds on par with the underwritten and over-emotional dreck me and countless other kids shoveled out in our high school creative writing classes.  That's just what I hear.You thought the Missy Elliot shit was music? Was it worth it? Did you work it? Did you put your thang down, flip it and reverse it? You still rock out to "get ur freak on" do you? Stop it. The music was absurd. "Let's make hip hop wacky". So hip-hop HAS to be serious?  That's funny, given that it's a music birthed from house and block parties with the idea of getting the crowd going.  Missy's is, in my opinion, some of the best hip-hop in THAT regard in the genre's history, and Timbaland is a big part of it.  I do agree that most of the producers who want to get up in the videos and try and rhyme usually end up coming across pretty awful, and Timbaland is one of them...but there are far, FAR worthier targets for "bad hip-hop."  You say Timbaland "killed hip-hop" by giving the producer more attention?  I say that's ridiculous.  The producer is just the modern version of the classic hip-hop DJ, which has been a very integral and visible part of hip-hop since the beginning.This is why Mojo is my all time favorite, he puts my thoughts into words. I couldnt agree with you anymore. Morrison is known for being a god, yet he realy sucked IMO. I think its the dying young artist thing more then the talent thing.As for Hip Hop again you are correct. Hip Hop started as a funny, party, dance music. Rappers delight, kool moe dee, fat boys, run dmc, etc it turned into violent gangbangin music, but people like diddy, missy and even will smith made it more about having fun and hanging with your friends and a party not killing and hos. Nothing wrong with that.

Earlshog

01-31-2007, 10:46 AM

narc wrote: I think he put an emphasis on derivation into music that wasn't there before. He's not an especially gifted rapper, so he made up for it by sampling people's music and focusing on production techniques and made his name that way. And by capitalizing off the memory of Biggie Smalls who actually was a talented rapper. I think he paved the way for people like Timbaland by showing that it didn't matter how terrible a rapper you were as long as you could polish the end-product turd with slick production and by overusing samples from popular songs, having a simple easy to understand message, lots of guest spots by "big names," and by having Hype Williams videos with a shit-ton of glitz but absolutely nothing beyond the surface. I hate him for foisting that upon us. But I also hate us for eating it up. But I think it goes even further because this made his brand of rap so popular that rock went back to the drawing board and came up with some of the worst shit ever - rock/rap (I blame puffy for Kid Rock and Limp Bizkit's popularity indirectly), nu-metal and the emo/pop/punk stuff that's just repackaged bullshit. So yeah, I guess I blame him for a lot.  To me he definitely deserves to be part of this list, but not for the reason you stated. Puff was not the first to sample nor will he be the last, the "first" mainstream hip hop song ever was spit over a sample. He was also far from the first person to capitalize from someone elses death.  The seed for the Nu Metal hybrid had already been planted before he broke out as a solo artist. What I blame him for is creating the shinny suits / poppin cris / bling blingin mentality and then making it so over the top. Tupac and Biggie had incorporated that angle as part of there overall style. What Puffy did was strip down all those other elements and make it all about money. Ever since it seems like every hip hop song is three guys bragging about how much money they have and the music has lost substance. The chain comes first and that effects the music. This culture he created has morphed into all genres of music as well as invaded pop culture. 

This message was edited by Earlshog on 1-31-07 @ 5:02 PM

FMJeff

01-31-2007, 10:48 AM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: Jeff, I disagree with you about Simon Fuller.  Here's the reasons why... American Idol is marketing model designed to bring the people what they want... You bring up that Aretha wouldn't have gotten anywhere on Idol, and I disagree.  Fantasia, Ruben, and Hicks are examples of people not fitting the Pop Music "standard" for looks and getting record deals.  Of course, their albums didn't sell, but that's besides the point.NOBODY looks to "pop" music for artistic cred.  Back in the 50's and 60's, the very bands we respect today as pioneers in rock and roll WERE popular music, Aretha being one of them. Ray Charles wasn't a legend in his time, he was just a really popular artist. Becoming a legend takes time, requires staying power...talent...So yeah, you're wrong. You just can't look to popular music NOW for artistic cred, mainly because of the people I listed above and many others. That's the whole point of this thread. Music lost its credibility and here's some people that helped the cause.

badorties

01-31-2007, 10:51 AM

the biggest culprit is the telecommunications Act of 1996 ... particularly, republican senator pressler of south dakota for introducing it ... the 81% of congressmen and 90% of senators that voted for it ... and Clinton for signing into law on 02/08/96 all the dreck, muck & mire that is pop culture now is a result of media outlets being controlled by a few corporationsthat and the back eyed peas, and any will.i.am produced drivel

FMJeff

01-31-2007, 10:53 AM

narc wrote: I disagree with Jeff and Foodcourt about Missy. Say what you will about her, she doesn't sound like anyone else and is way more of an original than Puffy will ever be. Not to mention that she's a famous female rapper - quick name 5 besides her. She was also enormously influential in helping to establish the South as a breeding ground for rap and showing that you don't just have to be from NYC or LA. And if you actually read her lyrics, I would say they're a few grade levels up with a touch of tongue-in-cheek (and let's face it, tongue-elsewhere) that you don't get from Diddy. Oh yeah - and she can actually sing. Just because she doesn't sound like anyone else doesn't mean she's talented. I can take a dump on a plate and serve it upside down, it doesn't make me an original chef. Oh and Queen Latifah, MC Lyte, Salt N Pepa, Foxy Brown and Da Brat.

riverofpiss

01-31-2007, 10:56 AM

That entire list, 1-10, killed modern popular music for sure.  The only one I don't agree with is Cobain.  I believe he saved grunge from being ruined, even if that wasn't his goal when he pulled the trigger.  The fact that the surviving bands from that scene (Soundgarden, STP, and even Alice in Chains) couldn't carry the flame left by Cobain was a big letdown for fans of the "grunge" era.There is a lot of great music out there now, just listen to campus stations or XMU if you have an XM radio.  But I agree with the fact that 99% of popular modern music does suck.  Too bad Trent Reznor took five and a half years to follow up The Downward Spiral.   If he could have came out with an album in '96 instead of waiting until '99 when all the momentum from Downward Spiral was gone I really think things could be diiferent right now.

FMJeff

01-31-2007, 11:04 AM

riverofpiss wrote: Too bad Trent Reznor took five and a half years to follow up The Downward Spiral.   If he could have came out with an album in '96 instead of waiting until '99 when all the momentum from Downward Spiral was gone I really think things could be diiferent right now.  It's an interesting point, but i think it has less to do with momentum and more with times. Back then bands like Orgy and Manson (and NIN) were huge acts because teens were more receptive to darker, more gothic music. It's just not the case anymore. Emo and bubblegum punk is the rule nowadays, with homos like Fall out Boy and Taking Back Sunday. Let's not forget My Chemical Romance, who admittedly refers frequently to the Smashing Pumpkins playbook.

FMJeff

01-31-2007, 11:21 AM

TheMojoPin wrote: FMJeff wrote: [quote]TheMojoPin wrote: I don't quite agree with the Timbaland thing.  Granted, him showing up actually in the videos and on the songs sucks, but the guy has produced a boatload of quality songs.  The stuff he's done with Missy Elliot alone (calling it "garbage" is pretty absurd) should keep him far away from a list like this.  Keep him off the mic and not in front of the camera and I have no problem with him.  Same goes for Pharrell, too.  Dr. Dre is the only one that pulled off the rapper AND producer thing.I dunno, his political and business picks I agree with, but the actual musical choices seem lazy or flat out wrong.  Whoa, Nickleback sucks?  Creed is goddamned and godawful?  STOP TEH PRESSES!!!1!1!11!1And being the next Morrison isn't even close to being a good thing.  Way to insult the dead.This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-30-07 @ 10:02 PM Yeah because being compared to one of the most original voices of sixties is always an insult. Sometimes I think you're anti everything for the sake of being anti everything, Mojo. How am I "anti-everything" just because I really don't like the Doors?  I think they're massively overrated and I think Morrison's "original voice" usually sounds on par with the underwritten and over-emotional dreck me and countless other kids shoveled out in our high school creative writing classes.  That's just what I hear.You thought the Missy Elliot shit was music? Was it worth it? Did you work it? Did you put your thang down, flip it and reverse it? You still rock out to "get ur freak on" do you? Stop it. The music was absurd. "Let's make hip hop wacky". So hip-hop HAS to be serious?  That's funny, given that it's a music birthed from house and block parties with the idea of getting the crowd going.  Missy's is, in my opinion, some of the best hip-hop in THAT regard in the genre's history, and Timbaland is a big part of it.  I do agree that most of the producers who want to get up in the videos and try and rhyme usually end up coming across pretty awful, and Timbaland is one of them...but there are far, FAR worthier targets for "bad hip-hop."  You say Timbaland "killed hip-hop" by giving the producer more attention?  I say that's ridiculous.  The producer is just the modern version of the classic hip-hop DJ, which has been a very integral and visible part of hip-hop since the beginning.As for Creed and Nickleback, I didn't say the choices were original, ass. For me, this list is comprised of individuals that helped speed the death of music and specific genres. Nickleback killed popular rock & roll with thier power ballads disguised as hard rock and whiny vocals, imitated to this day by bands like Stone Sour and the newly christened "Daughtry". Creed helped Christian rock become immensely popular by creating a bridge between worlds. Gwen Stefani killed ska music when she could've saved it. Timbaland killed hip hop by making it about producer and production instead of the artist. Sure, one could argue the list differently, but that's the whole point of debate, isn't it? But yeah, good debate always begins with calling other people's viewpoints lazy. Why can't I say I think they're lazy?  You obviously put this list out there for people to read...did you expect everyone to flock back and not have any opposing views?  I don't see that as some kind of personal attack...it's just my opinion about some of your choices on your list.  I see Creed and Nick

narc

01-31-2007, 02:45 PM

Just a few things - none of the female rappers you named have done anything in years. I would've taken Lil Kim, Kelis, and Eve instead. But regardless the point remains the same. And I actually hate a lot of rap dreck but Missy's stuff has always been at least interesting, and I know lots of people feel the same. She writes catchy weird stuff. I'm not going to say I'm a huge Missy Elliott fan or anything, and she's done some crap, but she's also done some really good stuff.As for Gwen Stefani, I loathed her even back then I would never call her the Queen of Ska. I personally believe Ska is a democratic republic and not a monarchy. No Doubt even then was watered down pop-punk more than ska. Before tragic kingdom they were probably more ska. But I didn't hear about them then - did you? I would've put them in the same category as Sugar Ray.  

This message was edited by narc on 1-31-07 @ 6:48 PM

IamFogHat

01-31-2007, 03:37 PM

The following people killed modern music;1) money2) corporate america3) advertising4) marketing  By the way, modern music is not dead.  Music on the radio and on the charts sucks ass for the most part, but if you know where to look great new music is coming out all the time.  Just don't expect to find it on MTV.

Kevin

01-31-2007, 03:47 PM

JPMNICK wrote: FMJeff wrote: 7) Lou Pearlman<img src="http://www.hitquarters.com/images/LouPearlman_150.jpg" border="0" width="150" height="252" />If there ever was a man to blame for re-igniting the boy band movement of the mid-to-late nineties, it is Lou Perlman. Inspired by the success of New Kids on the Block, this unoriginal portly jew and former charter airline executive created the Backstreet Boys and N'Sync. Hit after cookie cutter hit, this devilish chub chub continued to laugh in the face of superior male groups like the Righteous Brothers, The Four Seasons and The Temptations, proving without a doubt that boyish good looks is the only essential commodity you need to become successful in the music business.Although his creations have suffered a righteous death, the repercussions of his actions, like the memory of a child-molesting uncle, continue to haunt us to this very day.Again with this? why do we always have to attack the jews?If you had read his i can't stop shitting thread, you would know that he is a jew himself.... So it makes it OK!

El Mudo

01-31-2007, 03:48 PM

In much of the same vein Billy Ray Cyrus killed country music  Achy Breaky Heart begat Garth Brooks, which begat Shania Twain, which effectively killed the genre...It doesn't exist anymore.  What we are told is "country music" today is prepackaged lite fm fare.

NickyL0885

01-31-2007, 04:17 PM

Jeff, no offense budday, but wtf w/ Creed man!!!!!!!! they fucking rock! my favorite band of all time. O, and Nirvana SUCKS ASS!!!

Chigworthy

01-31-2007, 05:30 PM

I can't believe you Beatles fans forgot this one:<img src="http://www.weeklyreader.com/readandwriting/content/binary/Stephen-King-2max.jpg" border="0" width="310" height="366" />

shittyhambrgers

01-31-2007, 05:48 PM

missy elliot sucks fat dicks.

PapaBear

01-31-2007, 05:51 PM

El Mudo wrote: In much of the same vein Billy Ray Cyrus killed country music  Achy Breaky Heart begat Garth Brooks, which begat Shania Twain, which effectively killed the genre...It doesn't exist anymore.  What we are told is "country music" today is prepackaged lite fm fare. Real country still exists. They just call it "alt-country" now.

TheVHD

01-31-2007, 05:54 PM

Any band/artist that is played on Z-100... if your not from the NY metro area delete Z-100 and insert your local SUCK POP station.

Stankfoot

01-31-2007, 05:56 PM

shittyhambrgers wrote: missy elliot sucks fat dicks.                I'm glad this thread has finally sunk to the level it deserves. People like different types of music.              Some music that is out there you won't like. Deal with it....

MegaRouge

01-31-2007, 06:07 PM

Doesn't Timbaland produce Missy Elliot?  She sucks a fat dick but only because someone makes her sound that way. Why am I defending Missy Elliot, I think she sucks a...ah nevermind.

badorties

01-31-2007, 06:29 PM

MegaRouge wrote: Doesn't Timbaland produce Missy Elliot?  She sucks a fat dick but only because someone makes her sound that way.Why am I defending Missy Elliot, I think she sucks a...ah nevermind. they were a huge and very successful writing/production team over the last decade or so; he worked on her solo stuff and (i think) was noticably absent on her last recordand from certain, unconfirmed rumors she's really not into suckingfor all the shit out there, i've always found their stuff interesting -- if not quite entertaining

El Mudo

01-31-2007, 07:08 PM

PapaBear wrote: El Mudo wrote: In much of the same vein Billy Ray Cyrus killed country music  Achy Breaky Heart begat Garth Brooks, which begat Shania Twain, which effectively killed the genre...It doesn't exist anymore. What we are told is "country music" today is prepackaged lite fm fare. Real country still exists. They just call it "alt-country" now. I meant more of in the mainstream...in the mainstream, its dead.  Its a shame that I have to look as hard as I do to find decent music, especially when traditional had such a huge comeback in the late 80s, early 90s and great songs were all over the place

TheMojoPin

01-31-2007, 08:14 PM

FMJeff wrote: In regards to your response, when I refer to ska music, I'm not talking about Desmond Dekker and Toots & the Maytals. I'm referring to the revival, ska punk as they called it, The Toasters, Reel Big Fish, Operation Ivy, etc. Sure, there were a number of contributing factors, but I looked to Gwen as the queen of ska punk music at its prime.Some people call that "3rd Wave Ska."  Personally, and a lot of music critics/historians (can I get paid to be one of those?) along with me, don't really agree.  It really feels like pop punk with horns forced onto it...my ears just don't hear a "natural" blending of the music and styles like you do with classic ska or the 2-Tone bands (and the VERY underground American ska scene from the mid 80's through the early 90's that was influenced by it).  And man, Reel Big Fish were EXACTLY who I was thinking off when I think of the bands that pissed me off the from that period.Basically I look at that little faux-ska revival as having the same credibiltiy and quality as the equally shortlived and underwhelming "swing revival" a year or so later.  Sure, on the surface it looks and sounds kind of like what it's aping...but scratch the surface and there's not much there.But I agree that Gwen was MUCH better with No Doubt.  Until that awful last ND album.As for Nickleback and Creed, yes there are grunge influences but I don't hear Alice in Chains or Pearl Jam in either. It's definately something new, something softer. Right, they're just watering down the sounds of PJ and AIC and a few other lower tier grunge bands.  The problem with "grunge" is that it tries to label a lot of bands that acually sound pretty different...you had some bands that were more influenced by punk and then others that were more influenced by "classic rock/metal."  Bands like PJ and AIC fell into the latter group.  They just tightened things up a bit and added that deep, gutteral style of bass singing (PJ especially) that everyone tries to ape now.  And if it's a band trying to just howl/sing, that's them trying to be AIC.  Take that both bands are so stepped in classic rock traditions that have been "alternafied," and you have the templates for a good 90% of the post-grunge, non-nu-metal rock bands in the last decade.  PJ and AIC are copied the most because they're the easiest to copy because they were kinda copying some of the most popular stuff about rock in the first place.  People tag Cobain about ripping off other bands, but at least he picked really off the wall acts to try and sound like or mash together.  PJ and AIC and STP and Soundgarden et al really played it MUCH more safe in terms of which acts and which genres they were tyring to "update."

keithy_19

01-31-2007, 09:08 PM

Earlshog wrote: good job sir!  how about weezer for creating pinkerton... while independently it was a brilliant piece of work it paved the way for emo...  Pinkerton is a great album. Take all your agression/negative/sad/rejected/lonely feelings and you get Pinkerton. If you wanted to talk about bands that influenced the emo craze, look at bands like The Promise Ring, though I don't think they deserve to make this list. Also, Jawbreaker and Sunny Day Real Estate influenced emo greatly. While they don't sound much like the emo today, you would also have to blame them for being good at what they created, cause it influenced bands today.  I'm also surprised My Chemical Romance didn't make your list. I'm glad they didn't, but surprised.

keithy_19

01-31-2007, 09:16 PM

cough...<img src="http://www.abc.net.au/news/features/img/Entertainmentblog/2005/december/20051226kevin.jpg" border="0" width="234" height="218" />

Earlshog

02-01-2007, 06:00 AM

TheVHD wrote: Any band/artist that is played on Z-100... if your not from the NY metro area delete Z-100 and insert your local SUCK POP station. there have been stations like Z100 going back to the 60's and there always will be...

TheMojoPin

02-01-2007, 06:25 AM

keithy_19 wrote: cough...<img src="http://www.abc.net.au/news/features/img/Entertainmentblog/2005/december/20051226kevin.jpg" border="0" width="234" height="218" />How can a guy who barely sold a few thousand albums, had his tour cancelled for lack of interest and have been generally considered a joke or worse or worse since the public knew who he was possibly "kill" or anything else to the music industry?A band like Weezer or even an album specifically like Pinkerton is a much better idea since they spawned so many shitty bands that are agonizing to listen to.  Hell, even Weezer was awful in the wake of that album.  Thank God the Rentals are finally putting out a third album.  Rivers can go die.

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 2-1-07 @ 10:27 AM

El Mudo

02-01-2007, 09:31 AM

TheMojoPin wrote: keithy_19 wrote: cough...<img src="http://www.abc.net.au/news/features/img/Entertainmentblog/2005/december/20051226kevin.jpg" border="0" width="234" height="218" />How can a guy who barely sold a few thousand albums, had his tour cancelled for lack of interest and have been generally considered a joke or worse or worse since the public knew who he was possibly "kill" or anything else to the music industry?A band like Weezer or even an album specifically like Pinkerton is a much better idea since they spawned so many shitty bands that are agonizing to listen to. Hell, even Weezer was awful in the wake of that album. Thank God the Rentals are finally putting out a third album. Rivers can go die. This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 2-1-07 @ 10:27 AM Pinkerton is such a strange album in what it inspired from people.  I remember it was reviled when it came out (Rolling Stone called it the worst album of 1996).  But now its considered by many to be a great and classic album.  I don't think people were expecting that kind of an album out of Weezer...they wanted more "Sweater Song" and "Buddy Holly" and  Pinkerton was 90 degrees in the other direction.  I mean, it pretty much killed the band.  Rivers went to college and they didn't come back for five years.  I do love "El Scorcho" though....my favorite Weezer song after "In My Garage"

keithy_19

02-01-2007, 12:30 PM

The K-Fed thing was a joke. It bombed, but that's ok.I just don't like how you can chalk up one album to the whole demise of the music industry. Pinkerton did influence many of the bands out today. So did the Beatles. When do we criticize the beatles or any other band that influenced a greatd eal of bands?Also, Panic! At The Disco should be on the list. You can not play a show and still get signed to a record deal. Fuck you Pete Wentz and your God awful Fall Out Boy.

narc

02-01-2007, 12:37 PM

keithy_19 wrote: cough...<img src="http://www.abc.net.au/news/features/img/Entertainmentblog/2005/december/20051226kevin.jpg" border="0" width="234" height="218" /> The corpse was cold by the time he came along and sodomized it.

Earlshog

02-01-2007, 12:50 PM

El Mudo wrote: TheMojoPin wrote: keithy_19 wrote: cough...<img src="http://www.abc.net.au/news/features/img/Entertainmentblog/2005/december/20051226kevin.jpg" border="0" width="234" height="218" />How can a guy who barely sold a few thousand albums, had his tour cancelled for lack of interest and have been generally considered a joke or worse or worse since the public knew who he was possibly "kill" or anything else to the music industry?A band like Weezer or even an album specifically like Pinkerton is a much better idea since they spawned so many shitty bands that are agonizing to listen to. Hell, even Weezer was awful in the wake of that album. Thank God the Rentals are finally putting out a third album. Rivers can go die.This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 2-1-07 @ 10:27 AM Pinkerton is such a strange album in what it inspired from people.  I remember it was reviled when it came out (Rolling Stone called it the worst album of 1996).  But now its considered by many to be a great and classic album.  I don't think people were expecting that kind of an album out of Weezer...they wanted more "Sweater Song" and "Buddy Holly" and  Pinkerton was 90 degrees in the other direction.  I mean, it pretty much killed the band.  Rivers went to college and they didn't come back for five years. I do love "El Scorcho" though....my favorite Weezer song after "In My Garage" yeah and then those fucks rescinded it and put in the top 20 albums when they did one of there countdowns.. cunts... I remember my roommate in college having that CD and listening to it over and over. When I saw the rollingstone article I thought something was wrong with me for liking it so much... cunts

high fly

02-01-2007, 03:50 PM

FMJeff, what, no Linda McCartney?How 'bout that fella down there in Florida who gave us them boy bands?

riverofpiss

02-01-2007, 04:05 PM

NickyL0885 wrote: Jeff, no offense budday, but wtf w/ Creed man!!!!!!!! they fucking rock! my favorite band of all time. O, and Nirvana SUCKS ASS!!! You've got it all backwards.  Nirvana is one of the great bands of all time.  Creed, literally, sucked ass.

NickyL0885

02-03-2007, 10:24 PM

keithy_19 wrote: The K-Fed thing was a joke. It bombed, but that's ok.I just don't like how you can chalk up one album to the whole demise of the music industry. Pinkerton did influence many of the bands out today. So did the Beatles. When do we criticize the beatles or any other band that influenced a greatd eal of bands?Also, Panic! At The Disco should be on the list. You can not play a show and still get signed to a record deal. Fuck you Pete Wentz and your God awful Fall Out Boy.  How dare ye for hating FOB. They are awesome. Sure, Pete Wentz is an asshole, but the band is good. Now, Panic! at the Disco, they are def factory made, but i like them too. although, either of them cant touch Trapt or Story of the Year. Im so gald SOTY's second album was how they wanted it to be. I love the harder sound.

A.J.

02-04-2007, 08:33 AM

high fly wrote: How 'bout that fella down there in Florida who gave us them boy bands? FMJeff wrote:7) Lou Pearlman<img src="http://www.hitquarters.com/images/LouPearlman_150.jpg" border="0" width="150" height="252" />If there ever was a man to blame for re-igniting the boy band movement of the mid-to-late nineties, it is Lou Perlman. Inspired by the success of New Kids on the Block, this unoriginal portly jew and former charter airline executive created the Backstreet Boys and N'Sync. Hit after cookie cutter hit, this devilish chub chub continued to laugh in the face of superior male groups like the Righteous Brothers, The Four Seasons and The Temptations, proving without a doubt that boyish good looks is the only essential commodity you need to become successful in the music business.Although his creations have suffered a righteous death, the repercussions of his actions, like the memory of a child-molesting uncle, continue to haunt us to this very day.

MellySmelly

02-04-2007, 08:49 AM

Tall_James wrote: Let's not forget about...<img src="http://www.mousestars.com/images/mmclogo.jpg" border="0" width="304" height="248" />For introducing the world to highly polished turds, grown in vats, bred to be pop stars. I couldn't agree with you more.  Ever notice that they all sound just a little like the ole Mickey Mouse after they run their no talent voices through the Mickey Mixer Board?

witweew

04-14-2008, 04:56 AM

SPAM has no animals in it.

Reynolds

04-14-2008, 05:00 AM

"yeah... " made this smooth

ChimneyFish

04-14-2008, 04:36 PM

Jeff, no offense budday, but wtf w/ Creed man!!!!!!!! they fucking rock! my favorite band of all time. O, and Nirvana SUCKS ASS!!!

I'm not even a Nirvana fan, but this could very well be the most disturbing thing I've ever seen on the Internet.

edit: is anyone else only getting 10-6 of Jeffs' list showing up on the first page????

Stankfoot

04-14-2008, 04:47 PM

SPAM yoinked.

I liked this post better when you did it in the '80s New Wave Dance Hits' thread:

SPAM crushed.

WhistlePig

04-14-2008, 05:41 PM

Green Day pussified punk rock.

grlNIN

04-14-2008, 05:58 PM

The Cure

helterskeletor

04-15-2008, 08:03 AM

I don't quite agree with the Timbaland thing.  Granted, him showing up actually in the videos and on the songs sucks, but the guy has produced a boatload of quality songs.  The stuff he's done with Missy Elliot alone (calling it "garbage" is pretty absurd) should keep him far away from a list like this.  Keep him off the mic and not in front of the camera and I have no problem with him.  Same goes for Pharrell, too.  Dr. Dre is the only one that pulled off the rapper AND producer thing.I dunno, his political and business picks I agree with, but the actual musical choices seem lazy or flat out wrong.  Whoa, Nickleback sucks?  Creed is goddamned and godawful?  STOP TEH PRESSES!!!1!1!11!1And being the next Morrison isn't even close to being a good thing.  Way to insult the dead.

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-30-07 @ 10:02 PM

agreed. P Diddy was much worse at taking over the spotlight, at being derivative as hell (sometimes just rapping over people's songs) and even re-using other rap beats - talk about musical incest!

P Diddy is one of the worst things to happen to music.

bossdjbware

04-15-2008, 10:34 AM

is anyone else only getting 10-6 of Jeffs' list showing up on the first page????

yes. same here.

ChimneyFish

04-15-2008, 11:01 AM

Thank you, boss.

And I submit my pick for a band that killed modern music: A-Ha

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c217/luxa1/aha1.jpg

And, yes, I went out of my way to pick the gayest pic on Google images.:lol:

underdog

04-15-2008, 11:49 AM

Jeff, no offense budday, but wtf w/ Creed man!!!!!!!! they fucking rock! my favorite band of all time. O, and Nirvana SUCKS ASS!!!

Boooooo.

missy elliot sucks fat dicks.

Actually, I think she licks pussy.