8 Black Teenagers Convicted of Hate Crime

[foodcourtdruide]

<p><a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lbhate27jan27,0,5312951.story?coll=la-headlines-california">http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lbhate27jan27,0,5312951.story?coll=la-headlines-california</a></p><p><a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7022246">http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7022246</a>&nbsp;</p><p>This is an incredibly interesting case. It looks like 8 black teengers in Long Beach, California were convicted of a hate crime. According to the accusations a mob of about 30 (including the 10 kids up for trial) pummeled 3 women and screamed the racial remark &quot;I hate.. White people&quot;</p><p>The defense believes that it would be impossible to single out the 10 teenagers on trial because the mob was so big. However, one of the teenagers had blood on her pants and they found one of the beaten womens' cell phones in the car of another. </p><p>It looks like a really sad case all around. These poor women were beaten for their race, some teenagers may have been misidentified, and a community seems to be unwilling to look beyond race lines for justice.</p>

[shittyhambrgers]

if you're going to beat people up, don't mention WHY you're doing it.

[Team_Ramrod]

<p>Well, Those are obviously some misdirected 'youts'.</p><p>Maybe thier dad should have punished them more and helped give them direction as a youngster.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Chigworthy]

How are they going to be charged with a hate crime if the victims were not minorities?

[Uncle Smokey]

<p>I abhor hate crime statutes on general principle.&nbsp;&nbsp; Creating special classes of victims only adds to the societal polarization that these laws are meant to address.&nbsp;&nbsp; They also put an inordinate amount of power in the hands of prosecutors who can use hate crime escalations to cynically leverage pleas out of defendants who might otherwise be able to mount a vigorous defense.&nbsp;</p><p>For example, using NY hate crime statute as a guideline for punishment, a white kid and black kid get into an altercation over a parking space,&nbsp;the black kid having cut in front of the white kid and given him the finger as he pulled in. &nbsp;&nbsp; Words are exchanged, including racial epithets.&nbsp; A fist fight ensues, and the&nbsp;black kid gets his arm broken.&nbsp; Witnesses testify that&nbsp;they heard the&nbsp;white kid&nbsp; screaming &quot;nigger&quot; as he pounded on the black kid.&nbsp; White kid is arrested at his home&nbsp; and gets charged with assault 2 with a hate crime elevation, which boosts the assault 2 punishment guidelines to the level of assault 1, meaning he can do up to 15 YEARS in jail.&nbsp; Now generally, he'd have caught a straight assault 2 charge, which carries 2 to 7 and the DA would immediately be willing to deal down to a misdemeanor assault 3 to clear the case, usually with a few years' probation as a punishment.&nbsp; Add to that, the kid has a legitimate self defense case which improves his negotiating position.&nbsp; Now, however, because he uttered the magic word, the DA can hold over a decade in state prison over his head and induce him to plead out to a felony charge with serious jail time&nbsp;or face the prospect of a jury trial and, if found guilty a &quot;trial tax&quot; sentence someplace btwn 10 and 15 yrs.&nbsp; The DA's felony conviction rate goes up and he&nbsp;can get&nbsp;his picture in the paper defending the safety of a community he&nbsp;spends his days&nbsp;prosecuting.&nbsp; Meanwhile, if that same white kid pushed my eighty year old grandmother down a flight of stairs&nbsp;in front of 200 witnesses, he'd catch an assault&nbsp;2 case and deal down off it with no problem.&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;Punish the underlying offense for what it is rather than trying to parse how much the victim's race, sex, nationality, etc. factors into it. </p>

[Team_Ramrod]

<strong>Chigworthy</strong> wrote:<br />How are they going to be charged with a hate crime if the victims were not minorities? <p>hate is hate....you don't have to fit into any category to qualify.</p><p>Just like 'reverse racism' is still racism.</p>

[newport king]

i miss fat nick.

[Midkiff]

white people are so scared... of black people<img src="/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smoke.gif" border="0" width="46" height="20" />

[Don Stugots]

where was Rev. AL to step up for the 8 black teens.&nbsp; they are obviously innocent.&nbsp;

[Wallower]

<p>These 8 teenagers should be applauded for hating crime. I know their friends will mock them, but someone in the community has to stand up for whats right. </p><p>Oh. I must have misread the topic title.</p>

[DarkHippie]

The moral of this story: don't fuck with white people!!

[johnniewalker]

<p><img src="http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k230/homer3889/27581855.jpg" border="0" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>People at City Hall in December clasped hands to show solidarity, many of them wearing wristbands with the motto &quot;Long Beach One City.&quot; Leaders urged residents not to be swayed by outsiders trying to rally support for the victims or the defendants</p><p>...ewww </p><p>&nbsp;</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by johnniewalker on 1-27-07 @ 3:20 PM</span>

[Jughead]

Nobody hates white people more than me..Ronny B.............

[ralphbxny]

<strong>The Midnight Ramrod</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well, Those are obviously some misdirected 'youts'.</p><p>Maybe thier dad should have punished them more and helped give them direction as a youngster.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>You mean their momma's baby daddies!</p>

[A.J.]

<strong>Don Stugots</strong> wrote:<br />where was Rev. AL to step up for the 8 black teens.&nbsp; they are obviously innocent.&nbsp; <p>He and/or Rev. Jackson are probably catching the red eye <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/Forum/87/Topic/56229/page/Huge_Anti_war_Rally_in_DC_1_27">from DC</a>.</p>

[Team_Ramrod]

<strong>ralphbxny</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>The Midnight Ramrod</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well, Those are obviously some misdirected 'youts'.</p><p><font color="#000000" style="background-color: #ffff99">Maybe thier dad should have punished them more and helped give them direction as a youngster</font>.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>You mean their momma's baby daddies!</p><p>Well kinda....</p><p>I was throwing out a softball with that&nbsp;line in hopes someone would tag it and send one deep.</p><p>If it's not &quot;buenas noches&nbsp;senior rawlings&quot; in a bit longer I'll bring out the fungo bat and see how well I can hit it.</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by The Midnight Ramrod on 1-27-07 @ 4:24 PM</span>

[furie]

<strong>Wallower</strong> wrote:<br><p>These 8 teenagers should be applauded for hating crime. I know their friends will mock them, but someone in the community has to stand up for whats right. </p><p>Oh. I must have misread the topic title.</p><p></p>

you know, i'm really starting to dig wallflower.
excellent post!

[SatCam]

<strong>shittyhambrgers</strong> wrote:<br>if you're going to beat people up, don't mention WHY you're doing it.<p></p>

because they hate... white people

[Doctor Z]

I didn't think black people could commit hate crimes.

[DJEvelEd]

<p>Ni*<u>BLEEP*</u>rs!</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Abe Lincoln really shit the bed!</p>

[Wallower]

<strong>furie</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Wallower</strong> wrote:<br /><p>These 8 teenagers should be applauded for hating crime. I know their friends will mock them, but someone in the community has to stand up for whats right. </p><p>Oh. I must have misread the topic title.</p><p>&nbsp;</p> you know, i'm really starting to dig wallflower. excellent post!<p>&nbsp;A very barratone &quot;THAAAAANK YOU.&quot;</p>

[Kevin]

<strong>newport king</strong> wrote:<br />i miss fat nick. <p>I miss Team Ramrod!</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Kevin on 1-27-07 @ 9:39 PM</span>

[Bulldogcakes]

<strong>johnniewalker</strong> wrote:<br /><p><img src="http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k230/homer3889/27581855.jpg" border="0" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>People at City Hall in December clasped hands to show solidarity, many of them wearing wristbands with the motto &quot;Long Beach One City.&quot; Leaders urged residents not to be swayed by outsiders trying to rally support for the victims or the defendants</p><br /><span class="post_edited"></span><p>&nbsp;Ghey</p>

[Chigworthy]

<p><strong>The Midnight Ramrod</strong> wrote:</p><p>hate is hate....you don't have to fit into any category to qualify.</p><p>Just like 'reverse racism' is still racism.</p><p>Theoretically true, but as far as I know not legally true.&nbsp; Victims of a hate crime have to be a minority, from what I remember.&nbsp; It's one more ridiculous facet of hate crime legislation, if I'm not totally wrong.</p>

[foodcourtdruide]

<strong>Chigworthy</strong> wrote:<br /><p><strong>The Midnight Ramrod</strong> wrote:</p><p>hate is hate....you don't have to fit into any category to qualify.</p><p>Just like 'reverse racism' is still racism.</p><p>Theoretically true, but as far as I know not legally true.&nbsp; Victims of a hate crime have to be a minority, from what I remember.&nbsp; It's one more ridiculous facet of hate crime legislation, if I'm not totally wrong.</p><p>This absolutely cannot be true. In this case, the 8 teenagers convicted of hate crimes were black and the victims were white. It was a black on white hate crime.</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

Can we hire The Greaseman to issue a statement about these fucking Knitters?

[Chigworthy]

<p>I was completely wrong.&nbsp; I probably heard this on some atrocious conservative talk show.&nbsp; All I could really find was this:</p><p>&quot;Senator Joseph Biden, Jr., a co-sponsor of the new act, said, '<em>This legislation sends a clear message that hate crimes against any minority group cannot be tolerated. By making it a federal crime, those who commit hate crimes will be subject to swift and consistent punishment throughout the country.'</em>&quot; </p><p>But... Hate crime legislation has been enforced for crimes against non-minorities since it began.</p><p>I guess I really showed myself.</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Chigworthy on 1-28-07 @ 12:14 AM</span>

[TheMojoPin]

<strong>Chigworthy</strong> wrote:<br /><p><strong>The Midnight Ramrod</strong> wrote:</p><p>hate is hate....you don't have to fit into any category to qualify.</p><p>Just like 'reverse racism' is still racism.</p><p>Theoretically true, but as far as I know not legally true.&nbsp; Victims of a hate crime have to be a minority, from what I remember.&nbsp; It's one more ridiculous facet of hate crime legislation, if I'm not totally wrong.</p><p>You're mistaken.&nbsp; &quot;Hate crime&quot; is defined as a crime aimed specifically at someone because of their social group in general, and not whether that group is a minority or not.</p><p>Personally, I think the legislation is too ambiguous.</p>

[shittyhambrgers]

<strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>shittyhambrgers</strong> wrote:<br />if you're going to beat people up, don't mention WHY you're doing it. because they hate... white people<p>not sure what you mean... i just meant if you're going to beat someone up because of their race, don't make it known that that's why you're doing it.&nbsp; less of a crime. </p>

[Team_Ramrod]

<strong>TheMojoPin</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Chigworthy</strong> wrote:<br /><p><strong>The Midnight Ramrod</strong> wrote:</p><p>hate is hate....you don't have to fit into any category to qualify.</p><p>Just like 'reverse racism' is still racism.</p><p>Theoretically true, but as far as I know not legally true.&nbsp; Victims of a hate crime have to be a minority, from what I remember.&nbsp; It's one more ridiculous facet of hate crime legislation, if I'm not totally wrong.</p><p>You're mistaken.&nbsp; &quot;Hate crime&quot; is defined as a crime aimed specifically at someone because of their social group in general, and not whether that group is a minority or not.</p><p>Personally, I think the legislation is too ambiguous.</p><p>Thanks mojo, that's what I was trying to get at in the first place.</p><p>I agree, the legislation is too ambiguous...</p><p><img src="http://ca.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9FJqhrBRLxFH6oA8AL2FAx./SIG=13kjbh4fn/EXP=1170052673/**http%3A//www.afterelton.com/TV/2006/photos/ambiguously%2520gay%2520duo/ambiguously_gay_duo_5_1.jpg" border="0" width="243" height="250" /></p>

[foodcourtdruide]

<strong>Chigworthy</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I was completely wrong.&nbsp; I probably heard this on some atrocious conservative talk show.&nbsp; All I could really find was this:</p><p>&quot;Senator Joseph Biden, Jr., a co-sponsor of the new act, said, '<em>This legislation sends a clear message that hate crimes against any minority group cannot be tolerated. By making it a federal crime, those who commit hate crimes will be subject to swift and consistent punishment throughout the country.'</em>&quot; </p><p>But... Hate crime legislation has been enforced for crimes against non-minorities since it began.</p><p>I guess I really showed myself.</p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by Chigworthy on 1-28-07 @ 12:14 AM</span> <p>lol yeah, it did sound like something someone would say to infuriate non-minorities.</p>

[Team_Ramrod]

<strong>Kevin</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>newport king</strong> wrote:<br />i miss fat nick. <p>I miss Team Ramrod! </p><p>Me too...He was the coolest; Daddio!</p>

[TokeOne]

<strong>Chigworthy</strong> wrote:<br /><p><strong>The Midnight Ramrod</strong> wrote:</p><p>hate is hate....you don't have to fit into any category to qualify.</p><p>Just like 'reverse racism' is still racism.</p><p>Theoretically true, but as far as I know not legally true.&nbsp; Victims of a hate crime have to be a minority, from what I remember.&nbsp; It's one more ridiculous facet of hate crime legislation, if I'm not totally wrong.</p><p>You are totally wrong. Hate crime laws are written race neutral. So if an Asian man attacked a white man on the basis of his race, he would be eligible for a hate crime enhancement. However since it is at the discretion of the prosecutor as well as a lack of reported, media cases, you might not see or read about many instances of a white male victim of hate crime. </p><p>Edit: Sorry, I didn't see where you had corrected yourself.</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by TokeOne on 2-17-07 @ 12:17 PM</span>

[TokeOne]

<hr color="cococo" align="left"></font><strong>Uncle Smokey</strong> wrote:<br><p>I abhor hate crime statutes on general principle.ÿÿ Creating special classes of victims only adds to the societal polarization that these laws are meant to address.ÿÿ They also put an inordinate amount of power in the hands of prosecutors who can use hate crime escalations to cynically leverage pleas out of defendants who might otherwise be able to mount a vigorous defense.ÿ</p><p>For example, using NY hate crime statute as a guideline for punishment, a white kid and black kid get into an altercation over a parking space,ÿthe black kid having cut in front of the white kid and given him the finger as he pulled in. ÿÿ Words are exchanged, including racial epithets.ÿ A fist fight ensues, and theÿblack kid gets his arm broken.ÿ Witnesses testify thatÿthey heard theÿwhite kidÿ screaming "nigger" as he pounded on the black kid.ÿ White kid is arrested at his homeÿ and gets charged with assault 2 with a hate crime elevation, which boosts the assault 2 punishment guidelines to the level of assault 1, meaning he can do up to 15 YEARS in jail.ÿ Now generally, he'd have caught a straight assault 2 charge, which carries 2 to 7 and the DA would immediately be willing to deal down to a misdemeanor assault 3 to clear the case, usually with a few years' probation as a punishment.ÿ Add to that, the kid has a legitimate self defense case which improves his negotiating position.ÿ Now, however, because he uttered the magic word, the DA can hold over a decade in state prison over his head and induce him to plead out to a felony charge with serious jail timeÿor face the prospect of a jury trial and, if found guilty a "trial tax" sentence someplace btwn 10 and 15 yrs.ÿ The DA's felony conviction rate goes up and heÿcan getÿhis picture in the paper defending the safety of a community heÿspends his daysÿprosecuting.ÿ Meanwhile, if that same white kid pushed my eighty year old grandmother down a flight of stairsÿin front of 200 witnesses, he'd catch an assaultÿ2 case and deal down off it with no problem.ÿ </p><p>ÿPunish the underlying offense for what it is rather than trying to parse how much the victim's race, sex, nationality, etc. factors into it. </p><hr color="cococo" align="left"><p></p>

The problem with your example is that the black victim wasn't targeted because of his race, so the hate crime enhancement wouldn't apply. And also if he broke his arm, wouldn't it arise to an assault 1 anyway because of bodily harm? I guess it depends on the specific intent issue.

[JimBeam]

<p>While I think Long Beach leadership was right in making a statement not to be swayed bu outsiders I think it's kinda wierd that they said for the victims or the accused.</p><p>Victim's are exactly that and did nothing wrong ( from what we can tell ) so why shouldn't we listen to people arguing for the rights og the victims ?</p><p>Does that apply to anytime there's a crime ?</p><p>We shouldn't ever speak out against a crime ?</p><p>Whether it be vandalism, rape, murder, terrorism or peeing in public ?</p><p>Kinda lame.</p><p>I know the point they were trying to make but it comes off half-assed.</p>

[Yerdaddy]

<strong>Chigworthy</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I was completely wrong.&nbsp; I probably heard this on some atrocious conservative talk show.&nbsp; All I could really find was this:</p><p>&quot;Senator Joseph Biden, Jr., a co-sponsor of the new act, said, '<em>This legislation sends a clear message that hate crimes against any minority group cannot be tolerated. By making it a federal crime, those who commit hate crimes will be subject to swift and consistent punishment throughout the country.'</em>&quot; </p><p>But... Hate crime legislation has been enforced for crimes against non-minorities since it began.</p><p>I guess I really showed myself.</p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by Chigworthy on 1-28-07 @ 12:14 AM</span> <p>Props for self-correction. Seriously.</p><p>Not so seriously: </p><p><img src="http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/images/dhc_sudden2.jpg" border="0" width="400" height="165" /></p><p>&quot;That's mighty white of you. &quot;</p>

[Gaia]

<strong>Chigworthy</strong> wrote:<br />How are they going to be charged with a hate crime if the victims were not minorities? <p>Racism is racism, Do you think if a mob of gay people attacked three straight people screaming, &quot;I HATE STRAIGHT PEOPLE!!&quot; It shouldnt be charged as a hate crime? It's hate for a particular religion, sex, sexual orientation, religion, whatever. Its still a hate crime. </p>

[A.J.]

I've been charged with Love Crimes.