Border Patrol Agents To Go To Jail

[JimBeam]

<p>This story might have been posted a while back but this is the first I'm hearing of it.</p><p>While there is something serioulsy wrong with these guys shooting a possibly unarmed man and making it worse by trying to cover it up, I find it ridiculous that a drug dealer can be a witness against the men trying to apprehend him.</p><p>Facing 12 years ?</p><p>What would the guy have gotten if he was arrested and convicted ?</p><p>Maybe 2 1/2 ?</p><p>Something doesn't seem right.</p><p><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,244193,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,244193,00.html</a></p>

[phixion]

<p>yeah i get what your saying drug dealers are worse than people who shoot other people...makes sense to me.</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by phixion on 1-17-07 @ 3:28 PM</span>

[sailor]

<strong>phixion</strong> wrote:<br /><p>yeah i get what your saying drug dealers are worse than people who shoot other people...makes sense to me.</p> <span class="post_edited">This message was edited by phixion on 1-17-07 @ 3:28 PM</span><p>&nbsp;<font size="2">dammit, you changed it before i could correct you.&nbsp; :)<br /></font></p>

[sailor]

<font size="2">and yes, a drug dealer bring a million bucks worth of pot here is worse than border guards shooting at people in the process of defending our borders.<br /></font>

[Doctor Manhattan]

<strong>sailor</strong> wrote:<br /><font size="2">and yes, a drug dealer bring a million bucks worth of pot here is worse than border guards shooting at people in the process of defending our borders.<br /></font><p><font face="comic sans ms,sand" size="2" color="#000080">Bringing&nbsp;pot&nbsp;into the country is worse than shooting unarmed people in the back!?</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">Pot shouldn't even be illegal while cigarettes and alcohol are legal. B</font><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">ut since it is, the guy should have been stopped. But why shoot the guy? Why in the back?</font></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Doctor Manhattan on 1-17-07 @ 3:42 PM</span>

[angrymissy]

I suppose they should just be sitting there letting people cross the border illegally.&nbsp; I mean god forbid they try to enforce laws.&nbsp; Shit, they should have offered them a cool drink and a meal.

[Doctor Manhattan]

<strong>angrymissy</strong> wrote:<br />I suppose they should just be sitting there letting people cross the border illegally.&nbsp; I mean god forbid they try to enforce laws.&nbsp; Shit, they should have offered them a cool drink and a meal. <p><font face="comic sans ms,sand" size="2" color="#000080">And the only way to stop people (un-armed)&nbsp;from crossing the border is shooting them in the back and then trying to cover it up.</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">They were not enforcing the law, they were creating their own.</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">Also, I don't think the drug dealer should have been able to get away with his crimes in exchange for testifiying against the Border Agents. He should be in jail as well. But his crime was not as bad.</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080"><strong>Selling/smuggling Pot is not as bad a shooting unarmed people in the back. That's my point! I can't believe I have to back that statement up.</strong></font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">Regarding Pot: A great man once said &quot;It don't make you a bad person&quot;</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">I'd like to read more details about how this guy was crossing the border with 750 pounds of pot. Did he drop it and start running, exposing his backside for the agents to take a shot?</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080"></font></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Doctor Manhattan on 1-17-07 @ 3:52 PM</span>

[Jujubees2]

<p><font size="2">First of all, they shot an unarmed man and then tried to cover it up.&nbsp; Hell yes, they should go to jail.</font></p><p><font size="2">Bordor Patrol agents should not use deadly force unless they are in danger (similar to a police officer - they won't shoot at an fleeing drug dealer unless the drug dealer has a gun).&nbsp; Shooting someone in the&nbsp;back is hardly being in danger.</font></p><p><font size="2">That said, the drug dealer shouldn't have gotten off either.</font></p>

[Marc with a c]

12 years isn't so bad, imagine he cheated on his wife.

[angrymissy]

Well the first time I heard this story, they thought one of the men was armed.&nbsp; They subdued the whole group, one of the border agents tripped, and the guy that got shot took off.&nbsp; Have they determined whether or not the man was armed yet?&nbsp; Or are they relying on the drug smuggler that had 700 lbs of pot to tell them that?

[HBox]

<strong>angrymissy</strong> wrote:<br />Well the first time I heard this story, they thought one of the men was armed. They subdued the whole group, one of the border agents tripped, and the guy that got shot took off. Have they determined whether or not the man was armed yet? Or are they relying on the drug smuggler that had 700 lbs of pot to tell them that?<p>&quot;These agents shot someone who they knew to be unarmed and running away,&quot; Sutton said. &quot;They destroyed evidence, covered up a crime scene and then filed false reports about what happened. It is shocking that there are people who believe it is OK for agents to shoot an unarmed suspect who is running away.&quot;<span> <p>Sutton said that during the two-and-a-half-week trial, evidence showed that around 1 p.m. on Feb. 17, 2005, Davila initially ran from the agents, but tried to surrender with his empty hands raised after Compean pointed a shotgun at him. When Compean tried to push Davila to the ground with his gun, the agent tripped and fell. Davila then ran toward the Rio Grande River and Mexico. Compean chased Davila, firing at him with his pistol 14 times, pausing once to reload, Sutton said. Ramos shot once and struck Davila in the buttocks.</p> <p>Neither agent made any further effort to apprehend him, Sutton said, and they threw away the fired shell casings and filed a false report omitting the confrontation.</p> <p>&quot;If Compean and Ramos truly believed Aldrete [Davila] was a threat, why did they abandon him after shooting him?&quot; Sutton asked. &quot;And if they truly believed the shooting was justified, why did they not report it, leave the scene undisturbed, and let the investigation absolve them? The answer to these questions are simple. The agents knew that Aldrete did not pose a threat as he fled, they knew the shooting was unjustified and unlawful, and they knew an investigation would incriminate them. So they chose to cover up their crimes.&quot;</p> <p>Snow and Sutton have both pointed out that at the time Davila was originally pulled over, the agents didn't know he was an illegal alien, nor did they know he had over 700 pounds of marijuana in his truck. The agents also had arms training the day before the incident, so they knew what was required of them in the case of a shooting, they said.</p> <p>&quot;The facts of this case are such that I would invite everybody to take a full look at the documented record,&quot; Snow said. &quot;This is not the case of the United States saying, 'We are not going to support people who go after drug dealers.' Of course, we are. We think it's incumbent to go after drug dealers, and we also think that it's vitally important to make sure that we provide border security so our people are secure.</p> <p>&quot;We also believe that the people who are working to secure that border themselves obey the law.&quot;</p></span> </p>

[Doctor Manhattan]

<strong>angrymissy</strong> wrote:<br />...Have they determined whether or not the man was armed yet?&nbsp; Or are they relying on the drug smuggler that had 700 lbs of pot to tell them that? <p><font face="comic sans ms,sand" size="2" color="#000080">I'm still looking up more details than I found in the foxnews.com link. Looks like they were never able to find a gun. If they do find that the Dealer had a gun then all bets are off.</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">Are you saying a guy with 750-800 pounds of pot would lie?</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">There are always a few bad cops (Texas Border Patrol agents in this case) out there, the good cops don't usually make the news. People shouldn't jump in support of these guys just because they are in law enforcement.</font></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Doctor Manhattan on 1-17-07 @ 4:06 PM</span>

[JimBeam]

<p>From what I've read they didnt find anything but if there was a coverup and it wasnt exposed until later any number of things could've ahppened to the alleged gun.</p><p>It also appears that this guy was the star witness so of course we should believe everything he says.</p><p>He seems trustworthy no ?</p><p>If illegals can sue the US for things done to them here shouldnt we be allowed to sue Mexico everytime an illegal or legal Mexican does something wrong in this country.</p><p>If that illegal had murdered a US citizen would they have done 12 years in prison ?</p><p>Doubtful.</p><p>This again goes to us acting like we know what we'd do in a scenrio when surrounded&nbsp; by possibly hostile people.</p><p>We can sit here and say from the comfort of our keyboards that this shouldnt have happened but we'll never know.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[angrymissy]

<strong>Doctor Manhattan</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>angrymissy</strong> wrote:<br />...Have they determined whether or not the man was armed yet? Or are they relying on the drug smuggler that had 700 lbs of pot to tell them that? <p><font face="comic sans ms,sand" size="2" color="#000080">I'm still looking up more details than I found in the foxnews.com link. Looks like they were never able to find a gun. If they do find that the Dealer had a gun then all bets are off.</font></p><p style="background-color: #ffff00"><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">Are you saying a guy with 750-800 pounds of pot would lie?</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">There are always a few bad cops (Texas Border Patrol agents in this case) out there, the good cops don't usually make the news. People shouldn't jump in support of these guys just because they are in law enforcement.</font></p> <span class="post_edited">This message was edited by Doctor Manhattan on 1-17-07 @ 4:06 PM</span><p>&nbsp;I think a drug smuggler testifying to avoid prosecution would have a higher chance of lying than a regular person, yes.</p><p><span>In exchange for his testimony against the two agents, Davila was granted immunity from prosecution by the U.S. government for attempting to smuggle nearly 750 pounds of marijuana &mdash; which had a street value of more than $1 million &mdash; into the United States on the day he was shot. He was treated in a U.S. hospital and is now suing the federal government for $5 million, Poe said.</span> </p>

[Doctor Manhattan]

<p><font face="comic sans ms,sand" size="2" color="#000080">I was just kidding (I specifically mentioned the large amount of pot on purpose)</font></p><p><font face="comic sans ms,sand" size="2" color="#000080">There is not one person in this story that is correct in what they did. They should all be in jail including whoever let the drug dealer testify against the agents.</font></p>

[ChrisTheCop]

<strong>Doctor Manhattan</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>angrymissy</strong> wrote:<br />...Have they determined whether or not the man was armed yet? Or are they relying on the drug smuggler that had 700 lbs of pot to tell them that? <p><font face="comic sans ms,sand" size="2" color="#000080">I'm still looking up more details than I found in the foxnews.com link. Looks like they were never able to find a gun. If they do find that the Dealer had a gun then all bets are off.</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">Are you saying a guy with 750-800 pounds of pot would lie?</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">There are always a few bad cops (Texas Border Patrol agents in this case) out there, the good cops don't usually make the news. People shouldn't jump in support of these guys just because they are in law enforcement.</font></p> <span class="post_edited">This message was edited by Doctor Manhattan on 1-17-07 @ 4:06 PM</span><p>&nbsp;and we're just blindly jumping in support of the illegal alien drug smuggler because.....?</p><p>From the story I just read (and this is the 1st Ive heard of the whole thing), It seems to be 50-50. The only thing that sounds hinky is the aftermath, the alleged&nbsp; coverup. But to say that what they did at the time they did it makes them criminals seems odd to me.&nbsp;</p><p>Naturally, I'm biased. But so, it would seem, are others.&nbsp;</p>

[phixion]

<font size="2">and yes, a drug dealer bring a million bucks worth of pot here is worse than border guards shooting at people in the process of defending our borders</font><font size="2"> <p><font size="1">stop with this bullshit, over a million by the the gov't estimates.</font></p><p><font size="1">mexican pot is always regs, or in other words crap, at best. to the us gov't crap i can grow in my backyard and purple haze are the exact same thing.&nbsp;at best, you can sling a quarter pound of regs&nbsp;for $300. using that standard its well short of a million dollars. so stop using that please.</font> </p><p><font size="1">and defending our borders from what? weed? last time i checked ive smoked weed soaked in embalming fluid and im still alive, so who is he protecting? the war on drugs is a war on the poor, its just that simple. </font></p></font>

[HBox]

<strong>ChrisTheCop</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Doctor Manhattan</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>angrymissy</strong> wrote:<br />...Have they determined whether or not the man was armed yet? Or are they relying on the drug smuggler that had 700 lbs of pot to tell them that? <p><font face="comic sans ms,sand" size="2" color="#000080">I'm still looking up more details than I found in the foxnews.com link. Looks like they were never able to find a gun. If they do find that the Dealer had a gun then all bets are off.</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">Are you saying a guy with 750-800 pounds of pot would lie?</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">There are always a few bad cops (Texas Border Patrol agents in this case) out there, the good cops don't usually make the news. People shouldn't jump in support of these guys just because they are in law enforcement.</font></p> <span class="post_edited">This message was edited by Doctor Manhattan on 1-17-07 @ 4:06 PM</span><p> and we're just blindly jumping in support of the illegal alien drug smuggler because.....?</p><p>From the story I just read (and this is the 1st Ive heard of the whole thing), It seems to be 50-50. The only thing that sounds hinky is the aftermath, the alleged coverup. But to say that what they did at the time they did it makes them criminals seems odd to me. </p><p>Naturally, I'm biased. But so, it would seem, are others. </p><p>I wouldn't call it blindly jumping in support. First of all, no one here is feeling sorry for the guy who was shot. And secondly, these guys were already tried and convicted. People spent more time than any of us looking at more evidence than any of us had access to and decided these guys were guilty. No one here is blindly believing everything the dealer said or jumping to any conclusions. The case was looked at and these guys were found guilty. </p>

[phixion]

<p>&nbsp;and we're just blindly jumping in support of the illegal alien drug smuggler because.....? </p>&nbsp;thye are bringing much needed weed into this great nation. <p>and a little history lesson: weed became illegal at the turn of the century because of RACISM. mexicans were often found to have it on their persons, they made it illegal in order to deport them. inorder to turn the tide of public opinion the yellow press did what they did in respect to all drugs, they published that blacks using drug x would become more aggressive. that asians and jews on drug x raped white women. and the worst of the worst white women who use drug x are more aroused by minorities.</p>

[ChrisTheCop]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>ChrisTheCop</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Doctor Manhattan</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>angrymissy</strong> wrote:<br />...Have they determined whether or not the man was armed yet? Or are they relying on the drug smuggler that had 700 lbs of pot to tell them that? <p><font face="comic sans ms,sand" size="2" color="#000080">I'm still looking up more details than I found in the foxnews.com link. Looks like they were never able to find a gun. If they do find that the Dealer had a gun then all bets are off.</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">Are you saying a guy with 750-800 pounds of pot would lie?</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">There are always a few bad cops (Texas Border Patrol agents in this case) out there, the good cops don't usually make the news. People shouldn't jump in support of these guys just because they are in law enforcement.</font></p> <span class="post_edited">This message was edited by Doctor Manhattan on 1-17-07 @ 4:06 PM</span><p> and we're just blindly jumping in support of the illegal alien drug smuggler because.....?</p><p>From the story I just read (and this is the 1st Ive heard of the whole thing), It seems to be 50-50. The only thing that sounds hinky is the aftermath, the alleged coverup. But to say that what they did at the time they did it makes them criminals seems odd to me. </p><p>Naturally, I'm biased. But so, it would seem, are others. </p><p><font color="Navy"><font size="2">I wouldn't call it blindly jumping in support. First of all, no one here is feeling sorry for the guy who was shot. And secondly, these guys were already tried and convicted. People spent more time than any of us looking at more evidence than any of us had access to and decided these guys were guilty. No one here is blindly believing everything the dealer said or jumping to any conclusions. The case was looked at and these guys were found guilty.</font></font> </p><p>&nbsp;so everyone in jail is guilty beyond any doubt and in no need&nbsp; of case reviews??? Phix...I'll let you answer that one. </p>

[phixion]

<p>so everyone in jail is guilty beyond any doubt and in no need&nbsp; of case reviews??? Phix...I'll let you answer that one. </p>&nbsp;absolutely, the most important thing about or justice system is getting it right. im all for going every piece of evidence froma s many angles as possible to make evidence supports their hypothesis completely, that being said, the biggest problem in our system are DA's who look past evidence that goes against their case, because those types of DA's are not serving justice they are serving their own career advancement. <p>and im more upset that we are demonizing the guy for selling weed than anything else. the guy wasnt killed he was shot in the ass and he was actually guilty of breaking a law,&nbsp;a really fucking stupid law, but he did. i wont fight for him like i fought for sean bell. but again i say its only fucking weed, if you want to arrest them arrest them for bringing in <em>shitty</em> weed, not just weed. </p>

[HBox]

<strong>ChrisTheCop</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>ChrisTheCop</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Doctor Manhattan</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>angrymissy</strong> wrote:<br />...Have they determined whether or not the man was armed yet? Or are they relying on the drug smuggler that had 700 lbs of pot to tell them that? <p><font face="comic sans ms,sand" size="2" color="#000080">I'm still looking up more details than I found in the foxnews.com link. Looks like they were never able to find a gun. If they do find that the Dealer had a gun then all bets are off.</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">Are you saying a guy with 750-800 pounds of pot would lie?</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">There are always a few bad cops (Texas Border Patrol agents in this case) out there, the good cops don't usually make the news. People shouldn't jump in support of these guys just because they are in law enforcement.</font></p> <span class="post_edited">This message was edited by Doctor Manhattan on 1-17-07 @ 4:06 PM</span><p> and we're just blindly jumping in support of the illegal alien drug smuggler because.....?</p><p>From the story I just read (and this is the 1st Ive heard of the whole thing), It seems to be 50-50. The only thing that sounds hinky is the aftermath, the alleged coverup. But to say that what they did at the time they did it makes them criminals seems odd to me. </p><p>Naturally, I'm biased. But so, it would seem, are others. </p><p><font color="Navy"><font size="2">I wouldn't call it blindly jumping in support. First of all, no one here is feeling sorry for the guy who was shot. And secondly, these guys were already tried and convicted. People spent more time than any of us looking at more evidence than any of us had access to and decided these guys were guilty. No one here is blindly believing everything the dealer said or jumping to any conclusions. The case was looked at and these guys were found guilty.</font></font> </p><p> so everyone in jail is guilty beyond any doubt and in no need of case reviews??? Phix...I'll let you answer that one. </p><p>That's not what I'm saying and you know it. </p>

[Snacks]

<strong>Doctor Manhattan</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>angrymissy</strong> wrote:<br />I suppose they should just be sitting there letting people cross the border illegally.&nbsp; I mean god forbid they try to enforce laws.&nbsp; Shit, they should have offered them a cool drink and a meal. <p><font face="comic sans ms,sand" size="2" color="#000080">And the only way to stop people (un-armed)&nbsp;from crossing the border is shooting them in the back and then trying to cover it up.</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">They were not enforcing the law, they were creating their own.</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">Also, I don't think the drug dealer should have been able to get away with his crimes in exchange for testifiying against the Border Agents. He should be in jail as well. But his crime was not as bad.</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080"><strong>Selling/smuggling Pot is not as bad a shooting unarmed people in the back. That's my point! I can't believe I have to back that statement up.</strong></font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">Regarding Pot: A great man once said &quot;It don't make you a bad person&quot;</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">I'd like to read more details about how this guy was crossing the border with 750 pounds of pot. Did he drop it and start running, exposing his backside for the agents to take a shot?</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080"></font></p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by Doctor Manhattan on 1-17-07 @ 3:52 PM</span> <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080">There are always a few bad cops (Texas Border Patrol agents in this case) out there, the good cops don't usually make the news. People shouldn't jump in support of these guys just because they are in law enforcement.</font><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080"></font></p><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2" color="#000080"><p><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000">&nbsp;I agree with everything you wrote. I dont think a cop with a gun shooting an unarmed criminal is any better a person! Sorry, I dont agrree that all cops are good people. I do feel that a lot of cops use their badge as a do what you want id card.</font></p><p><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000">You know when a cop killer gets more time because he kills a cap. Then a cop should get more time then a regualr person for the same reason. He is a cop!!!</font></p></font>

[ChrisTheCop]

<p>Thats actually a good point Phix. Shitty weed should get you more jail time, especially if youre selling it for the same price as good shit. Like if McDonalds started selling THEIR coffee for 6 bucks. Awful. </p><p>But I digress.</p><p>The point you make about the da's hoping a case makes their career is also a good one. And what makes a young DA salivate more than a chance to convict a cop?&nbsp; I'm telling you, I know da's whove actually told me thats their dream case. It's publicity, but in order to have your happy ending, you gotta convict....so maybe some things were overlooked&nbsp; here as well? I really have no idea..just saying maybe.&nbsp; </p><p>Like i said, I read it as a 50-50.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

[ChrisTheCop]

and yes, snacks. If a cop kills another cop in hopes of getting a record deal, he should get more jail time.

[JimBeam]

<p>Actually his bigger mistake and the reason he got caught was because he was trying to sneak in.</p><p>Say all you want that pot shouldnt be illegal and how much it's actually worth but the thing is if he got here doing one illegal act he was sure to commit many more.</p><p>So we should wait until after an illegal has murdered somebody or even &quot; just &quot; stolen a car before we try and prevent them from doing it ?</p><p>He put himself in harms way and deserves everything he got.</p><p>No the agents should be punished as well but 12 years seems very very long.</p><p>Didnt the guy who did Loima with the plunger only get 4 ?</p><p>That's much worse.</p>

[Snacks]

<strong>phixion</strong> wrote:<br /><font size="2">and yes, a drug dealer bring a million bucks worth of pot here is worse than border guards shooting at people in the process of defending our borders</font><font size="2"> <p><font size="1">stop with this bullshit, over a million by the the gov't estimates.</font></p><p><font size="1">mexican pot is always regs, or in other words crap, at best. to the us gov't crap i can grow in my backyard and purple haze are the exact same thing.&nbsp;at best, you can sling a quarter pound of regs&nbsp;for $300. using that standard its well short of a million dollars. so stop using that please.</font> </p><p><font size="1">and defending our borders from what? weed? last time i checked ive smoked weed soaked in embalming fluid and im still alive, so who is he protecting? the war on drugs is a war on the poor, its just that simple. </font></p></font><p><strong>phixion</strong> wrote:</p><p>so everyone in jail is guilty beyond any doubt and in no need&nbsp; of case reviews??? Phix...I'll let you answer that one. </p><p>&nbsp;absolutely, the most important thing about or justice system is getting it right. im all for going every piece of evidence froma s many angles as possible to make evidence supports their hypothesis completely, that being said, the biggest problem in our system are DA's who look past evidence that goes against their case, because those types of DA's are not serving justice they are serving their own career advancement. </p><p>and im more upset that we are demonizing the guy for selling weed than anything else. the guy wasnt killed he was shot in the ass and he was actually guilty of breaking a law,&nbsp;a really fucking stupid law, but he did. i wont fight for him like i fought for sean bell. but again i say its only fucking weed, if you want to arrest them arrest them for bringing in <em>shitty</em> weed, not just weed. </p><p>I will say you are 100% correct. When people read and learn about our history (real history the hole story) they will see that everything isnt always as bad as it seems or as good. I dont smoke weed, but Im so tired of people being crimilized over stupid shit. Most &quot;old money&quot; was made from doing illegal shit, like bootlegin, running crrupt govt's in the late 1800's&nbsp; early 1900's. Cigs etc. But now there are new things that are not any worse but are illegal and create long term jail sentences for no reason. The funny thing is once people get out of jail they become worse then before b/c jail changes a man not for good. Jail doesnt rehab anyone it either makes them go crazy or teaches them how to do more shit. And this they have to b/c once you get out of jail you cant get a job b/c you now have a record. So what do you do next? more crime?</p><p>As for the DA's being the problem. I agree 10000000% everyone is trying to better their careers and by making cases seem worse then they are and bringing publicity to themselves they are serving only themselves rather then the community.</p>

[phixion]

<p>Say all you want that pot shouldnt be illegal and how much it's actually worth but the thing is if he got here doing one illegal act he was sure to commit many more </p><p>and you know this because your a soothsayer? </p><p>i know a couple of parents of friends of mine who readily admit that they came to this country illegally. and since coming they ve broken no laws, not one, eventually they did what was necessary to become naturalized aliens and eventually citizens. </p><p>and i used to sell weed over the summers in highschool, other than&nbsp;an occasonal traffic infraction&nbsp;and my constant&nbsp;grass habit i break no other laws. </p><p>people sell drugs because they are POOR! not because they are evil, not because they are looking for a quick buck, they do it because they are poor, for argument sake he comes here and wins the lottery, guess what he isnt gonna sell drugs anymore. so hes breaking a fucking law afterwards, but ofcourse you are Uatu who has the ability the past present and future in all alternate dimensions. </p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[JimBeam]

<p>So Pablo Escobar ( and I know that's the extreme end of the scale ) sold drugs because he was poor ?</p><p>Drug dealing isn't just the guy you're buying yours from its an indusrty the leads to a lot of violence and death.</p><p>Now you make counter with the fact that if it was legal it wouldnt be so dangerous but I'd bet that the cartels would still be killing each other over who would lead the business.</p><p>And no I'm not a soothsayer but a guy transporting 750 pounds of a controlled substance is not your average mule.</p><p>You'd be naive to think he was &quot; just doing one job so he could be reuinited with his family and open that restaurant they've always dreamed of &quot;.</p><p>That stuff only happens in the movies.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[angrymissy]

<strong>JimBeam</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Actually his bigger mistake and the reason he got caught was because he was trying to sneak in.</p><p>Say all you want that pot shouldnt be illegal and how much it's actually worth but the thing is if he got here doing one illegal act he was sure to commit many more.</p><p><font style="background-color: #ffff00">So we should wait until after an illegal has murdered somebody or even &quot; just &quot; stolen a car before we try and prevent them from doing it ?</font></p><p>He put himself in harms way and deserves everything he got.</p><p>No the agents should be punished as well but 12 years seems very very long.</p><p>Didnt the guy who did Loima with the plunger only get 4 ?</p><p>That's much worse.</p><p>I see you're in Westchester.&nbsp; I'm supposing you've heard about the rape/murder of that teenager in Croton Falls by an illegal with a record.&nbsp; At her sentencing, he smiled, turned around, and started the tell the parents exactly how he did it.</p><p>And the rape/murder in Rockland of that housewife.&nbsp; That guy killed her and then called her family on her cell phone to taunt them.&nbsp; Another illegal that had been deported multiple times and had a record.</p><p>They need to tighten the borders before that stuff happens.</p>

[JimBeam]

<p>Missy I agree but I can see, and understand, the rebuttal.</p><p>These types of crimes are more often committed by non-illegals than by illegals.</p><p>My response to that would be that as long as we can stop the possibility of some we're making a step in the right direction.</p><p>What kills me most is that this guy was an illegal, in the act of committing 2 crimes, and then he's treated in a US hospital, using US tax dollars and is now trying to get another 5 million of those tax dollars.</p><p>He was a foreign violator and should've just been sent back to Mexico while we dealt with the &quot; crime &quot; committed by our agents ourselves.</p><p>Why is this guy suing the Federal gov't for the actions of its agents any different than another country trying to hold our soldiers responsible for things they consider crimes during war&nbsp;?</p><p>Dont we specifically prevent against that ?</p><p>Why arent these agents allowed the same protection ?</p>

[angrymissy]

<strong>JimBeam</strong> wrote:<br /><p>These types of crimes are more often committed by non-illegals than by illegals.</p><p><font style="background-color: #ffff00">My response to that would be that as long as we can stop the possibility of some we're making a step in the right direction.</font></p><p>My point exactly.&nbsp; What scares me is that a lot of them have lengthy criminal records.&nbsp; They get picked up, released, don't show up for court/flee back to mexico and then just come back with a different identity.&nbsp; It's not safe.&nbsp; </p><span class="post_edited"></span>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by angrymissy on 1-17-07 @ 6:34 PM</span>

[phixion]

<p>So Pablo Escobar ( and I know that's the extreme end of the scale ) sold drugs because he was poor ?</p><p><font size="1">drugs are like the mob, the guys on top are super rich, the low level guys, the guys who actually put their necks on the line, they&nbsp;live with their moms. </font></p><p>Drug dealing isn't just the guy you're buying yours from its an indusrty the leads to a lot of violence and death.</p><p>Now you make counter with the fact that if it was legal it wouldnt be so dangerous but I'd bet that the cartels would still be killing each other over who would lead the business.</p><p><font size="1">actually i would point out&nbsp;amsterdam and say that the cartels bring in shit weed. the high quality stuff takes a higher level of dedication than any cartel could supply. the good shit takes botanists and chemists, the guys who win the cannabis cup are not gangsters</font></p><p>And no I'm not a soothsayer but a guy transporting 750 pounds of a controlled substance is not your average mule.</p><p><font size="1">actually you would be surprised. ive seen bodies of dead mexicans who died while trying to cross the dessert on foot&nbsp;with hundreds of pounds of marijuana strapped to their back. i doubt they would be willing to die to cross the border if they werent your average mule in an extremely desperate situation.</font></p><p>You'd be naive to think he was &quot; just doing one job so he could be reuinited with his family and open that restaurant they've always dreamed of &quot;.</p><p>That stuff only happens in the movies.</p><p><font size="1">im not naive im just surrounded by potdealers all the time, they are not innocent, but they are not demons incarnate that you seem to believe they are.</font> <font size="1">they are regular people looking to feed their kids. </font></p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Bulldogcakes]

<strong>sailor</strong> wrote:<br /><font size="2">and yes, a drug dealer bring a million bucks worth of pot here is worse than border guards shooting at <strong>unarmed</strong> people <strong>in the back and then covering it up</strong> in the process of defending our borders.<br /></font>Fixed that for ya. Not gonna let you get away with leaving out those pesky little details. &nbsp;&nbsp;This post clearly shows how batshit insane the War on Drugs is, and always was. The State gets to shoot people without a trial if they <strong><em>suspect </em></strong>drugs are being transported, and its A-OK with some folks. Something tells me if stuff like this was going on in their neighborhood to people who looked like them, they'd have a MUCH bigger problem with it. &nbsp;Whether or not he turned out to be an actual drug runner is IRRELEVANT. The border officers didn't know that when they shot him.&nbsp;<span><p>&nbsp;</p><p>U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton issued a statement in response to allegations the agents were prosecuted for &quot;just doing their job,&quot; saying &quot;nothing could be further from the truth.&quot;</p> <p>&quot;These agents shot someone who they knew to be unarmed and running away,&quot; Sutton said. &quot;They destroyed evidence, covered up a crime scene and then filed false reports about what happened. It is shocking that there are people who believe it is OK for agents to shoot an unarmed suspect who is running away.&quot;</p> <p>Sutton said that during the two-and-a-half-week trial, evidence showed that around 1 p.m. on Feb. 17, 2005, Davila initially ran from the agents, but tried to surrender with his empty hands raised after Compean pointed a shotgun at him. When Compean tried to push Davila to the ground with his gun, the agent tripped and fell. Davila then ran toward the Rio Grande River and Mexico. Compean chased Davila, firing at him with his pistol 14 times, pausing once to reload, Sutton said. Ramos shot once and struck Davila in the buttocks.</p> <p>Neither agent made any further effort to apprehend him, Sutton said, and they threw away the fired shell casings and filed a false report omitting the confrontation.</p> <p>&quot;If Compean and Ramos truly believed Aldrete [Davila] was a threat, why did they abandon him after shooting him?&quot; Sutton asked. &quot;And if they truly believed the shooting was justified, why did they not report it, leave the scene undisturbed, and let the investigation absolve them? The answer to these questions are simple. The agents knew that Aldrete did not pose a threat as he fled, they knew the shooting was unjustified and unlawful, and they knew an investigation would incriminate them. So they chose to cover up their crimes.&quot;</p></span>&nbsp;

[A.J.]

<p>Good! How dare they violate the civil rights of non-American citizens!</p><p>Now let's reimburse the families.</p>