~ NFL Rookie of the Year ~

[spoon]

<p>The boys just hit on it&nbsp;during the replay and I can't believe nobody even mentioned Colston from Hofstra&nbsp;via&nbsp;Harrisburg, PA.&nbsp; Easily the best rookie receiver over the whole year even after&nbsp;sitting out the last few weeks with an injury.&nbsp; Bush didn't really do much till mid-season but damn is he on fire right now.&nbsp; Young didn't even start until mid-season, but has been simply awesome.&nbsp; Williams plays on the line for an awful team.&nbsp; Leinart has been good of late, but is it enough?&nbsp; And don't forget AJ Hawk playing lights out d in Green Bay.&nbsp; And what about the little known Maurice Jones-Drew in Jacksonville?</p><p>Seriously when it's all said and done it'll be a very tough vote and should be very close.&nbsp; Will the fact that Bush and Colston play for the same team hurt their chances?&nbsp; Or will name recognition even help with the voters?&nbsp; Take a look at the stats.&nbsp; Quite possibly one of the greatest rookie class impact in a long time (in their first year).&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>Marques Colston, #12-WR <table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2" width="100%" class="bgBdr"><tbody><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td colspan="4">&nbsp;</td><td colspan="5">RECEIVING</td><td colspan="4">RUSHING</td><td colspan="2">FUMBLES</td></tr><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td>Stats</td><td>Team</td><td>G</td><td>GS</td><td>REC</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>LNG</td><td>TD</td><td>ATT</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>TD</td><td>FUM</td><td>LOST</td></tr><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td>2006</td><td align="left"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/nfl/team?statsId=18">Saints</a></td><td>&nbsp;11</td><td>&nbsp;10</td><td>59</td><td>917</td><td>15.5</td><td>86</td><td>7</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>-</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><tr class="bgC2" align="center"><td>Career</td><td align="left"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/nfl/team?statsId="></a></td><td>&nbsp;11</td><td>&nbsp;10</td><td>59</td><td>917</td><td>15.5</td><td>86</td><td>7</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>-</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr></tbody></table>Reggie Bush, #25-RB <table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2" width="100%" class="bgBdr"><tbody><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td colspan="4">&nbsp;</td><td colspan="5">RUSHING</td><td colspan="4">RECEIVING</td><td colspan="2">FUMBLES</td></tr><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td>Stats</td><td>Team</td><td>G</td><td>GS</td><td>ATT</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>LNG</td><td>TD</td><td>REC</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>TD</td><td>FUM</td><td>LOST</td></tr><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td>2006</td><td align="left"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/nfl/team?statsId=18">Saints</a></td><td>&nbsp;13</td><td>&nbsp;4</td><td>125</td><td>405</td><td>3.2</td><td>18</td><td>4</td><td>79</td><td>687</td><td>8.7</td><td>2</td><td>2</td><td>2</td></tr><tr class="bgC2" align="center"><td>Career</td><td align="left"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/nfl/team?statsId="></a></td><td>&nbsp;13</td><td>&nbsp;4</td><td>125</td><td>405</td><td>3.2</td><td>18</td><td>4</td><td>79</td><td>687</td><td>8.7</td><td>2</td><td>2</td><td>2</td></tr></tbody></table>Matt Leinart, #7-QB <table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2" width="100%" class="bgBdr"><tbody><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td colspan="4">&nbsp;</td><td colspan="11">PASSING</td><td colspan="4">RUSHING</td><td colspan="2">FUMBLES</td></tr><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td>Stats</td><td>Team</td><td>G</td><td>GS</td><td>COMP</td><td>ATT</td><td>PCT</td><td>YDS</td><td>YD/ATT</td><td>LNG</td><td>TD</td><td>INT</td><td>SCK</td><td>SCK YDS</td><td>RTG</td><td>ATT</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>TD</td><td>FUM</td><td>LOST</td></tr><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td>2006</td><td align="left"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/nfl/team?statsId=22">Cardinals</a></td><td>&nbsp;10</td><td>&nbsp;9</td><td>185</td><td>329</td><td>56.2</td><td>2171</td><td>6.6</td><td>58</td><td>10</td><td>10</td><td>17</td><td>130</td><td>73.9</td><td>19</td><td>26</td><td>1.4</td><td>2</t

[phixion]

spoon your a real football fan i can tell. so why no o-line love? nick mangold hasnt allowed a sack and has been hit with only 2 false starts, thsoe stats are unfuckinbelievable for a roookie o-linemen now when u consider hes a center then those stats are amazing for a vet.

[walking joint]

<strong>phixion</strong> wrote:<br />spoon your a real football fan i can tell. so why no o-line love? nick mangold hasnt allowed a sack and has been hit with only 2 false starts, thsoe stats are unfuckinbelievable for a roookie o-linemen now when u consider hes a center then those stats are amazing for a vet. <p>probably b/c linemen don't win awards like this...no matter how good or important they are.</p><p>&nbsp;about 3 weeks ago I figured Colston had this wrapped up, but its alot closer now.&nbsp; out of the ones you mentioned i don't think Leinart, Williams, Maroney, Hawk&nbsp;or Young have a chance..maybe Young.&nbsp; i think Bush/Colston could offset each other like you said.&nbsp; Hester has been huge, but i don't think they would give it to a special teams/defensive player.&nbsp; i think its going to be hard to pass on Jones-Drew.&nbsp; the guy is averaging 6 yards a carry and is good catching the ball out of the backfield.&nbsp; he has also done well on kick returns.&nbsp; i can't remember a year with so many good rookies making an impact...to me its between Colston and Drew right now and the final 3 weeks will probably decide the winner...possibly Bush sneaking in there.</p>

[phixion]

<p>probably b/c linemen don't win awards like this...no matter how good or important they are</p><p>&nbsp;then there should two separate thread sone for o rookie and one d rookie. and i dont care if they never do, big suprise fake football fans dont sunderstand the importance of a solid offensive line. but i know spoons is above all that. he knows agreat o line is the foundation for a good offense, and u cant have one without the other. </p>

[walking joint]

so are you saying the people who vote are fake football fans?&nbsp; i think spoon realized linemen don't win the award and the thread is about who is going to win Rookie of the Year.&nbsp; as you said i'm sure he knows their value.

[phixion]

<p>my point is that if we are going for reality then there should two categories one for offensive rookie of they year and one for defensive rookie of the year, like the nfl does. but if wea re just talking about this as conversation then mangold has to be included. i mean if you tell me walter jones didnt win the mvp last year then your wrong, sure they gave it alexander but that walter jones actually earned it. </p><p>and your comment about how linemen dont win the award is false as well, becasue julius peppers a defensive lineman won the award. </p>

[PhishHead]

<p>i mentioned Colston in the listening thread that he should win.</p><p>It has gotten closer because of Jones-Drew, but Jones-Drew gets more touches of the&nbsp; ball 1 because he is a running back and 2 because he returns kickoffs and sometimes punts.&nbsp; So obviously he has more chances to hit the endzone then a WR on a team with Reggie Bush, Deuce and Joe Horn. &nbsp;</p><p>Colston has been huge for the saints especially when Horn was hampered and Bush wasnt doing anything at all.&nbsp; He is the one that gave Brees confidence again.&nbsp; </p>

[Tall_James]

<p>Marques Colston - The injury hurt his chances and credit for his emergence may end up going to Brees since he even made Devery Henderson a viable threat.</p><p>Reggie Bush - The next few games will decide it for Bush.&nbsp; He might not have had the gaudy numbers but his mere presence has caused D-coordinators to game plan specifically for him.</p><p>Matt Leinart - Lots of potential and weapons, some flashes of brilliance but not his year.</p><p>Vince Young - Odds on favorite as of today.&nbsp; Voters seem to vote for whoever is hot at the time and Young is a sports-media darling right now.</p><p>Mario Williams - No.&nbsp; Will have a solid career but not an impact player right now.</p><p>Devin Hester - Trendy pick but no.</p><p>Laurence Maroney - Injuries hurt him.&nbsp; First half of the year it would have been a toss up between him and Colston.&nbsp; He's not even in the top 3 now.</p><p>Maurice Jones-Drew - A solid case can be made for him.&nbsp; What does he have, 9 touchdowns?&nbsp; Wouldn't be shocked if he was a surprise pick.</p><p>A.J. Hawk - No.&nbsp; Sleeps in a hyperbaric chamber.&nbsp; Too freaky.</p><p>Pee in my butt - Can we lose this stupid option already?&nbsp; It's entering &quot;Where's the beef?&quot; relevancy.</p>

[PhishHead]

<strong>phixion</strong> wrote:<br /><p>my point is that if we are going for reality then there should two categories one for offensive rookie of they year and one for defensive rookie of the year, like the nfl does. but if wea re just talking about this as conversation then mangold has to be included. i mean if you tell me walter jones didnt win the mvp last year then your wrong, sure they gave it alexander but that walter jones actually earned it. </p><p>and your comment about how linemen dont win the award is false as well, becasue julius peppers a defensive lineman won the award. </p><p>&nbsp;Manigold does deserve consideration for what he has done this year for the Jets at center. But he wont win i believe that is reality, maybe he has a chance at the Diet Pepsi one that is strictly voted by the fans, but he probably wont win that either.&nbsp; Walter jones may have earned it last year but in reality he did not even receive one vote.&nbsp; I understand your complaints and I believe you are right he should be given consideration but in reality he wont get any votes.&nbsp; </p>

[PhishHead]

Hawk will most likely win Defensive Rookie of the Year.

[walking joint]

<strong>phixion</strong> wrote: <p>and your comment about how linemen dont win the award is false as well, becasue julius peppers a defensive lineman won the award. </p><p>seemed pretty obvious he was talking offensive side of the ball.</p>

[Fezticle98]

<p>Vince Young will win. He has done the most with the least around him. He is 6-4 with a team that was one of the two worst in football prior to him starting.</p><p>If I had to vote:</p><p>1) Young</p><p>2) Colston</p><p>3) Jones-Drew</p><p>4) Bush</p>

[phixion]

<p>seemed pretty obvious he was talking offensive side of the ball.</p><p>&nbsp;with an olb and a db as choices as well? </p><p>abd ohish i agree withyou he never will, but he deserves consideration thats all im asking for. for an olinemen to be given respect, i understand if he doenst get it i really really do, i just want him in the conversation. </p>

[cougarjake13]

<p>i would say bush-colston will take votes away from each other</p><p>leinart hasnt done even half of what young has so he's out</p><p>for me it comes down to young and jones drew and if young keeps winning then i dont see how he doesnt win, but i voted for drew as of right now</p>

[PhishHead]

<strong>phixion</strong> wrote:<br /><p>seemed pretty obvious he was talking offensive side of the ball.</p><p> with an olb and a db as choices as well? </p><p>abd ohish i agree withyou he never will, but he deserves consideration thats all im asking for. for an olinemen to be given respect, i understand if he doenst get it i really really do, i just want him in the conversation. </p><p>&nbsp;Phixion i give him consideration the other problem being for people is that offensive lineman stats are not kept by the NFL or by Stats, LLC(the official stat keepers) so many of the offensive lineman stats are unofficial and not considered accurate.&nbsp; </p>

[Tall_James]

<strong>phixion</strong> wrote:<br />nick mangold hasnt allowed a sack and has been hit with only 2 false starts, thsoe stats are unfuckinbelievable for a roookie o-linemen now when u consider hes a center then those stats are amazing for a vet. <p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&amp;id=2672149">The only Mangold I'm voting for is his sister.</a></p>

[Earlshog]

[quote]<strong>spoon</strong> wrote:<br /><p><strong>The boys just hit on it&nbsp;during the replay and I can't believe nobody even mentioned Colston from Hofstra&nbsp;via&nbsp;Harrisburg, PA.</strong>&nbsp; Easily the best rookie receiver over the whole year even after&nbsp;sitting out the last few weeks with an injury.&nbsp; Bush didn't really do much till mid-season but damn is he on fire right now.&nbsp; Young didn't even start until mid-season, but has been simply awesome.&nbsp; Williams plays on the line for an awful team.&nbsp; Leinart has been good of late, but is it enough?&nbsp; And don't forget AJ Hawk playing lights out d in Green Bay.&nbsp; And what about the little known Maurice Jones-Drew in Jacksonville?</p><p>Seriously when it's all said and done it'll be a very tough vote and should be very close.&nbsp; Will the fact that Bush and Colston play for the same team hurt their chances?&nbsp; Or will name recognition even help with the voters?&nbsp; Take a look at the stats.&nbsp; Quite possibly one of the greatest rookie class impact in a long time (in their first year).&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>Marques Colston, #12-WR <table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2" width="100%" class="bgBdr"><tbody><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td colspan="4">&nbsp;</td><td colspan="5">RECEIVING</td><td colspan="4">RUSHING</td><td colspan="2">FUMBLES</td></tr><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td>Stats</td><td>Team</td><td>G</td><td>GS</td><td>REC</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>LNG</td><td>TD</td><td>ATT</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>TD</td><td>FUM</td><td>LOST</td></tr><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td>2006</td><td align="left"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/nfl/team?statsId=18">Saints</a></td><td>&nbsp;11</td><td>&nbsp;10</td><td>59</td><td>917</td><td>15.5</td><td>86</td><td>7</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>-</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><tr class="bgC2" align="center"><td>Career</td><td align="left"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/nfl/team?statsId="></a></td><td>&nbsp;11</td><td>&nbsp;10</td><td>59</td><td>917</td><td>15.5</td><td>86</td><td>7</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>-</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr></tbody></table>Reggie Bush, #25-RB <table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2" width="100%" class="bgBdr"><tbody><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td colspan="4">&nbsp;</td><td colspan="5">RUSHING</td><td colspan="4">RECEIVING</td><td colspan="2">FUMBLES</td></tr><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td>Stats</td><td>Team</td><td>G</td><td>GS</td><td>ATT</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>LNG</td><td>TD</td><td>REC</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>TD</td><td>FUM</td><td>LOST</td></tr><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td>2006</td><td align="left"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/nfl/team?statsId=18">Saints</a></td><td>&nbsp;13</td><td>&nbsp;4</td><td>125</td><td>405</td><td>3.2</td><td>18</td><td>4</td><td>79</td><td>687</td><td>8.7</td><td>2</td><td>2</td><td>2</td></tr><tr class="bgC2" align="center"><td>Career</td><td align="left"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/nfl/team?statsId="></a></td><td>&nbsp;13</td><td>&nbsp;4</td><td>125</td><td>405</td><td>3.2</td><td>18</td><td>4</td><td>79</td><td>687</td><td>8.7</td><td>2</td><td>2</td><td>2</td></tr></tbody></table>Matt Leinart, #7-QB <table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2" width="100%" class="bgBdr"><tbody><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td colspan="4">&nbsp;</td><td colspan="11">PASSING</td><td colspan="4">RUSHING</td><td colspan="2">FUMBLES</td></tr><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td>Stats</td><td>Team</td><td>G</td><td>GS</td><td>COMP</td><td>ATT</td><td>PCT</td><td>YDS</td><td>YD/ATT</td><td>LNG</td><td>TD</td><td>INT</td><td>SCK</td><td>SCK YDS</td><td>RTG</td><td>ATT</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>TD</td><td>FUM</td><td>LOST</td></tr><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td>2006</td><td align="left"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/nfl/team?statsId=22">Cardinals</a></td><td>&nbsp;10</td><td>&nbsp;9</td><td>185</td><td>329</td><td>56.2</td><td>2171</td><td>6.6</td><td>58</td><td>10</td><td>10</td><td>17</

[PhishHead]

[quote]<strong>Earlshog</strong> wrote:<br />[quote]<strong>spoon</strong> wrote:<br /><p><strong>The boys just hit on it during the replay and I can't believe nobody even mentioned Colston from Hofstra via Harrisburg, PA.</strong> Easily the best rookie receiver over the whole year even after sitting out the last few weeks with an injury. Bush didn't really do much till mid-season but damn is he on fire right now. Young didn't even start until mid-season, but has been simply awesome. Williams plays on the line for an awful team. Leinart has been good of late, but is it enough? And don't forget AJ Hawk playing lights out d in Green Bay. And what about the little known Maurice Jones-Drew in Jacksonville?</p><p>Seriously when it's all said and done it'll be a very tough vote and should be very close. Will the fact that Bush and Colston play for the same team hurt their chances? Or will name recognition even help with the voters? Take a look at the stats. Quite possibly one of the greatest rookie class impact in a long time (in their first year). </p><p>&nbsp;</p>Marques Colston, #12-WR <table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2" width="100%" class="bgBdr"><tbody><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td colspan="4">&nbsp;</td><td colspan="5">RECEIVING</td><td colspan="4">RUSHING</td><td colspan="2">FUMBLES</td></tr><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td>Stats</td><td>Team</td><td>G</td><td>GS</td><td>REC</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>LNG</td><td>TD</td><td>ATT</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>TD</td><td>FUM</td><td>LOST</td></tr><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td>2006</td><td align="left"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/nfl/team?statsId=18">Saints</a></td><td> 11</td><td> 10</td><td>59</td><td>917</td><td>15.5</td><td>86</td><td>7</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>-</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><tr class="bgC2" align="center"><td>Career</td><td align="left"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/nfl/team?statsId="></a><br /></td><td> 11</td><td> 10</td><td>59</td><td>917</td><td>15.5</td><td>86</td><td>7</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>-</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr></tbody></table>Reggie Bush, #25-RB <table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2" width="100%" class="bgBdr"><tbody><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td colspan="4">&nbsp;</td><td colspan="5">RUSHING</td><td colspan="4">RECEIVING</td><td colspan="2">FUMBLES</td></tr><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td>Stats</td><td>Team</td><td>G</td><td>GS</td><td>ATT</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>LNG</td><td>TD</td><td>REC</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>TD</td><td>FUM</td><td>LOST</td></tr><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td>2006</td><td align="left"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/nfl/team?statsId=18">Saints</a></td><td> 13</td><td> 4</td><td>125</td><td>405</td><td>3.2</td><td>18</td><td>4</td><td>79</td><td>687</td><td>8.7</td><td>2</td><td>2</td><td>2</td></tr><tr class="bgC2" align="center"><td>Career</td><td align="left"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/nfl/team?statsId="></a><br /></td><td> 13</td><td> 4</td><td>125</td><td>405</td><td>3.2</td><td>18</td><td>4</td><td>79</td><td>687</td><td>8.7</td><td>2</td><td>2</td><td>2</td></tr></tbody></table>Matt Leinart, #7-QB <table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2" width="100%" class="bgBdr"><tbody><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td colspan="4">&nbsp;</td><td colspan="11">PASSING</td><td colspan="4">RUSHING</td><td colspan="2">FUMBLES</td></tr><tr class="bgHdr2" align="center"><td>Stats</td><td>Team</td><td>G</td><td>GS</td><td>COMP</td><td>ATT</td><td>PCT</td><td>YDS</td><td>YD/ATT</td><td>LNG</td><td>TD</td><td>INT</td><td>SCK</td><td>SCK YDS</td><td>RTG</td><td>ATT</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>TD</td><td>FUM</td><td>LOST</td></tr><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td>2006</td><td align="left"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/nfl/team?statsId=22">Cardinals</a></td><td> 10</td><td> 9</td><td>185</td><td>329</td><td>56.2</td><td>2171</td><td>6.6</td><td>58</td><td>10</td><td>10</td><td>17</td><td>130</td><td>73.9</td><td>19</td><td>26</td><td>1.4</td>

[Snacks]

I think Devin Hester. Young has won some games but his #'s are what hurts him. Colston would have been my choice but missing 2 weeks hurt his chances. To me Hester has just been amazing, he changes how team play special teams.

[cougarjake13]

<p>to me R.O.Y. are most of the time based on numbers and hester doesnt really have numbers, yeh he has a few returns for td's but he have a better chance at being MVP than rookie of the year</p><p>young has not only revitalized the city and saved jeff fishers job he has some pretty good numbers</p><p>colston has better numbers but the injury will hurt him as will having reggie bush as a teammate</p><p>but in the end i think it will go to jones drew</p>

[spoon]

<strong>phixion</strong> wrote:<br />spoon your a real football fan i can tell. so why no o-line love? nick mangold hasnt allowed a sack and has been hit with only 2 false starts, thsoe stats are unfuckinbelievable for a roookie o-linemen now when u consider hes a center then those stats are amazing for a vet. <p>You're absolutely right, but I was just being realistic in the minds of the voters and the league.&nbsp; He has no chance and if he did I'd also include my own team's rookie left tackle Marcus McNeil.&nbsp; He has been unbelievable in arguably the toughest line position.&nbsp; Oh and he's playing through some crazy injuries to very important tools to the position in terms of blocking.&nbsp; He has two, yep two, broken hands!&nbsp; Yet sadly, he has no shot let's be honest.&nbsp; Yet to fans like us, we notice and I promise you both these player's team notice and they'll get paid real well next time around.&nbsp; They both have big raises coming in a few years.</p>

[spoon]

<strong>phixion</strong> wrote:<br /><p>my point is that if we are going for reality then there should two categories one for offensive rookie of they year and one for defensive rookie of the year, like the nfl does. but if wea re just talking about this as conversation then mangold has to be included. i mean if you tell me walter jones didnt win the mvp last year then your wrong, sure they gave it alexander but that walter jones actually earned it. </p><p>and your comment about how linemen dont win the award is false as well, becasue julius peppers a defensive lineman won the award. </p><p>He should have said O linemen never win.&nbsp; Obviously D linemen, especially pass rush specialists get a lot of recognition and he's a great example along with Shawn Merriman from the Chargers.&nbsp; To me, the NHL does it right.&nbsp; They have the normal rookie of the year (Calder Memorial Trophy) but also select an all-rookie team.&nbsp; They used to play the day before the all-star game but does it continue, I'm not too sure.&nbsp; Basically, they should pick the best player at all positions for the whole NFL and then the rookie class.&nbsp; An o rookie/d rookie of the year award would do nothing for the o line in almost any year.&nbsp; Teams know how important the lines are and that's really all that needs to be said.&nbsp; Look how often a big LT or DT goes in the first five picks and how much the best are being paid of late.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[spoon]

<strong>PhishHead</strong> wrote:<br /><p>i mentioned Colston in the listening thread that he should win.</p><p>It has gotten closer because of Jones-Drew, but Jones-Drew gets more touches of the&nbsp; ball 1 because he is a running back and 2 because he returns kickoffs and sometimes punts.&nbsp; So obviously he has more chances to hit the endzone then a WR on a team with Reggie Bush, Deuce and Joe Horn. &nbsp;</p><p>Colston has been huge for the saints especially when Horn was hampered and Bush wasnt doing anything at all.&nbsp; He is the one that gave Brees confidence again.&nbsp; </p><p>I don't think Brees ever lost his confidence, but he sure did gain it in Colston.&nbsp; It should be added that he was almost the last fucking pick of the whole draft!&nbsp; Also, he has stepped up and played two different positions on a pretty complex offensive scheme for a first year coach and qb for a team that has sucked out loud for years.&nbsp; Due to these facts I go with him still.&nbsp; Jones is really impressive but is also still a part of a two headed RB attack in Jacksonville.&nbsp; Also, there isn't a team in that division with a half decent defense, especially against the run, to speak of.</p>

[spoon]

<strong>Tall_James</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Pee in my butt - Can we lose this stupid option already?&nbsp; It's entering &quot;Where's the beef?&quot; relevancy.</p><p>Ok, check it out.&nbsp; Is that better?</p>

[spoon]

<strong>Snacks</strong> wrote:<br />I think Devin Hester. Young has won some games but his #'s are what hurts him. Colston would have been my choice but missing 2 weeks hurt his chances. To me Hester has just been amazing, he changes how team play special teams. <p>I can't agree here bc he doesn't even start yet on D.&nbsp; He just started to get real playing time.&nbsp; He's amazing on ST no doubt but he really won't be in the running when all is said and done and I agree with it.&nbsp; If teams were smart, all they have to do is not kick it to him.&nbsp; </p>

[spoon]

<strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><p>to me R.O.Y. are most of the time based on numbers and hester doesnt really have numbers, yeh he has a few returns for td's but he have a better chance at being MVP than rookie of the year</p><p>young has not only revitalized the city and saved jeff fishers job he has some pretty good numbers</p><p>colston has better numbers but the injury will hurt him as will having reggie bush as a teammate</p><p>but in the end i think it will go to jones drew</p><p>You see, I really think Jeff Fisher is the key in the evolution of Young.&nbsp; He knew this year was pretty much in the shitter game 1 and was smart to ease him in.&nbsp; He helped build his mental game and prepped him to perform like he has so far.&nbsp; No pressure early and he has been great.&nbsp; I give Jeff a ton of credit and think he's one of the best coaches out there and one hell of a nice guy too.&nbsp; Always just talking football with fans, let some people/fans come into the practice facilitly when a practice was abruptly interupted by lightning storms.&nbsp; They showed it on the NFL channel and ESPN, where he got his team in and the fans too and they all just hung out and talked football.&nbsp; Some of the fans worked out with the team.&nbsp; It was awesome.&nbsp; He hated how the team dealt/handled the McNair issue.&nbsp; And really went after his own player with the head stomping issue, yet let him atone for his idiotic moment.&nbsp; There really isn't a dam thing I hate about this guy.&nbsp; He should get a lot more credit bc the managment of the team overall sucks but he keeps it above water every year.&nbsp; He truly doesn't have much to work with, but does some pretty good things with what he has.&nbsp; I mean come on Chris Brown and Drew Bennett??&nbsp; And name me a good D player on the team.&nbsp; And don't hit me with pacman please!</p>

[spoon]

And Phishy is right to say go with Colston Earl.&nbsp; He isn't even listed on the injury report, but Edwards is a freak and will probably do some damage vs. the Ravens.&nbsp; But you're at the mercy of the QB there and I don't like that at all.

[Snacks]

<strong>spoon</strong> wrote:<br />And Phishy is right to say go with Colston Earl.&nbsp; He isn't even listed on the injury report, but Edwards is a freak and will probably do some damage vs. the Ravens.&nbsp; But you're at the mercy of the QB there and I don't like that at all. <p>Jaws said tonight on espn he thinks it will be the left tackle from SD because LT runs behind him most and the left tackle position is the most important line position. So spoon thats your team do you agree with his pick?</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>spoon</strong> wrote: <p>&nbsp; And name me a good D player on the team.&nbsp; And don't hit me with pacman please!</p><p>kyle vandenbosch and keith bulluck</p>

[spoon]

<p>Decent, but nothing great.</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>spoon</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Decent, but nothing great.</p><p>if you re read your post you asked for a good player on d, you said nothing about great</p>

[spoon]

<p>Perhaps my boy McNeil does have a small chance.&nbsp; He's getting some press and was rookie of the month to start the season.&nbsp; Granted that was before Young won all those games, Colston did his thing, Bush made headlines and Jones-Drew quietly became a huge part of the Jag offense.&nbsp; That's right, I said Jag off........ense.</p><p>Take a look.&nbsp; And remember, he never gave up a single sack in college too.&nbsp; And he's not one sided as LDT is having his best year ever!&nbsp; However, read the stats I pulled out below.&nbsp; It just doesn't look too possible.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><a href="http://www.chargers.com/news/headlines/mcneill-s-play.htm">http://www.chargers.com/news/headlines/mcneill-s-play.htm</a></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font style="background-color: #c0c0c0">....&quot;McNeill, who has lately received a rash of national attention due to his standout rookie year.&nbsp; According to Chargers coaches, McNeill has given up just two sacks in 14 starts and he&rsquo;s yet to receive his first NFL holding penalty.&quot;&nbsp; </font></p><p><font style="background-color: #c0c0c0">&quot;The Associated Press began naming an NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year in 1967.&nbsp; The award has gone to 30 running backs, seven wide receivers and two quarterbacks.&nbsp; An offensive lineman has never won the award.&quot;</font>&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>spoon</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font style="background-color: #c0c0c0">....&quot;McNeill, who has lately received a rash of national attention due to his standout rookie year.&nbsp; According to Chargers coaches, McNeill has given up just two sacks in 14 starts and he&rsquo;s yet to receive his first NFL holding penalty.&quot;&nbsp; </font></p><p><font style="background-color: #c0c0c0">&quot;The Associated Press began naming an NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year in 1967.&nbsp; The award has gone to 30 running backs, seven wide receivers and two quarterbacks.&nbsp; An offensive lineman has never won the award.&quot;</font>&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>and the trend will continue b/c with the play of bush, colston, young and jones drew theres no way an o lineman is gonna get it</p><p>prob the only way a rookie o lineman gets it is if no other rookies at the skill positions do anything great and the o lineman helps out a rb like lt do his thing like he is this year</p>

[cougarjake13]

does anyone else think that with bush's play today on a grand stage in NY will help his chances ???

[Kevin]

<strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br />does anyone else think that with bush's play today on a grand stage in NY will help his chances ??? <p>If it was a close game and the Giants actualy showed up, yea. But it was too easy.</p>

[cougarjake13]

<p>im too lazy to look it up but has there ever been a player that won the heisman and rookie of the year award back to back ??</p><p>found it&nbsp;</p><p>tony dorsett 76 heisman 77 roy</p><p>earl campbell 77 heisman 78 roy</p><p>george rogers 80 heisman 81 roy</p><p>marcus allen 81 heisman 82 roy</p><p>barry sanders 88 heisman 89 roy</p><p>eddie george 95 heisman 96 roy</p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>Kevin</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br />does anyone else think that with bush's play today on a grand stage in NY will help his chances ??? <p>If it was a close game and the Giants actualy showed up, yea. But it was too easy.</p><p>yeh but couldnt they go the other way and say he dominated </p>

[spoon]

<p>Kev, how is it this super team loses time and time again?&nbsp; Still the injurires?&nbsp; Is that what caused all those terribly stupid penalties?&nbsp; Thank you Giants fans and Giants, for putting me through one hell of a terrible game the one time I'm not at home with my Sunday ticket.&nbsp; Couldn't make it a good game for me huh?&nbsp; Thanks though to Gvac's Bengals for at least giving me a fun game to watch and another laugh at their expense.</p>

[spoon]

Sorry, he didn't dominate as Kev stated, he was one of the whole Saints crew that did anything they wanted to in that game.&nbsp; Including Colston another big rookie in the race.&nbsp; Yet I'm sorry, if I was to vote right now I'd have to go with Young as he just keeps winning and winning.&nbsp; Hell, these guys still have an outside shot at the playoffs!&nbsp; What a year he's having.&nbsp;

[cougarjake13]

<strong>spoon</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Kev, how is it this super team loses time and time again?&nbsp; Still the injurires?&nbsp; Is that what caused all those terribly stupid penalties?&nbsp; Thank you Giants fans and Giants, for putting me through one hell of a terrible game the one time I'm not at home with my Sunday ticket.&nbsp; Couldn't make it a good game for me huh?&nbsp; Thanks though to Gvac's Bengals for at least giving me a fun game to watch and another laugh at their expense.</p><p>we lost some games due to injuries but the defense at full strength wouldnt have overcome the dumb penalties, late hits, missed tackles, poor play calling, eli not knowing how to play QB</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>spoon</strong> wrote:<br />Sorry, he didn't dominate as Kev stated, he was one of the whole Saints crew that did anything they wanted to in that game.&nbsp; Including Colston another big rookie in the race.&nbsp; Yet I'm sorry, if I was to vote right now I'd have to go with Young as he just keeps winning and winning.&nbsp; Hell, these guys still have an outside shot at the playoffs!&nbsp; What a year he's having.&nbsp; <p>i forgot that they won again, its gonna be tough not to give it to him</p><p>this team was destined for a 4-12 season and he has not only made them respectable but a possible playoff team, luckily for jeff fisher he didnt hesitate to pull the trigger on kerry &quot; im still a drunk&quot; collins</p>

[phixion]

congrats to vince young and demeco ryans. good for those guys.

[Snacks]

<p>I do not think Young deserved rooki of the year. I know he helped a team win some games is a row, but he still ended up as a .500 win % and his numbers were the worst starting QB's I have ever seen by someone talked about like they were a god.</p><p>51% pass (bad)</p><p>2199 passing yards in 15 games (13 started) wow thats shocking it was so low</p><p>12 td 13 int more int to td's</p><p>QB rating of 66 again very very bad</p><p>Shit even matt leinhert had better #'s 600 more passing yards 8 point higher in passer rating and he played in 4 less games and started 3 less games. I dont think leinhert derserved it either, just comparing his #'s</p><p>I would have given it to Drew, Colston or even Bush over Young. I just think young is becoming that new golden boy that the media is selling as something great even though his #'s havent proven it.</p><p>I'm not even a Bush fan but 565 rushing yards and 88 rec 750 yards rec and sharing time with another great running back (Deuce) And he was the punt returner. The guy did everything. He should have won it.</p>

[phixion]

vince yound&nbsp;single handedly won games though. he has no recievers, when ur best wideout is white u know your passing offense is in trouble. leinart has two sick recievers.

[Snacks]

<strong>phixion</strong> wrote:<br />vince yound&nbsp;single handedly won games though. he has no recievers, when ur best wideout is white u know your passing offense is in trouble. leinart has two sick recievers. <p>or when you have a black qb you know you cant win. See how stupid that sounds race has nothing to do with.</p>

[phixion]

<p>no see that argument makes great sense considering the black skins qb int he 80's skins u should get after me for not knowing it off the top of my head go ahead and attack me. </p><p>but for u ill rephrase my statement, when drew bennet is your best reciever your passing offense is shot. when troupe has the second best hands on ur team you have no passing offense. better? </p>

[Snacks]

<p>Drew Benett and Troupe are both pretty good receivers/TE. Look at the SF WR's. They are shit yet Alex smith did wonders with them this year. </p><p>I think Young is being way over hyped. What he did in the BCS game last year was amazing and I thought he should have been the #1 pick in last years draft to the texans for more reasons then talent. But he didnt win these games by himself. one of his last games he won the def won the game for him, he was barely on the field and didnt play so well when he was.</p><p>Tenn has a really good defense and a great head coach. Young did well but not rookie of the year great. Bush deserved it. He had much better #'s while sharing the ball with others who had really good if not great #'s Horn had a good year, closton could have won rookie of the year, Deuce had a good year, Devry henderson had a good year. Bush had so many people to sahre the ball with and still put up monster rookie #'s</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Snacks on 1-3-07 @ 1:50 PM</span>

[phixion]

<p>ur bush argument that he shared the carries with deuce ic na take that the other way and say that a rookie of the year back is a feature back who puts up a 1000 yds. </p><p>and yes their d won a single game for them, and i believe that win was more cuz garrard sucks ass than tens d. and ask a giant fan if young should be rookie of the year, or a colts fan. i can name at least three games that the titans won on vince youngs shoulders alone. thats more than enough right there. and drew bennett is a good reciever? on most teams he'd be lucky to play slot. and troupe is solid ill never ever say hes even a top ten te. and for smith, ask young who he'd want bryant and battle or bennett and bobby wade, i dont think you can argue this with a straight face. oh yeah and smith has vernon david who is going to be a top three te in this league before the end of next year. and the biggest reason the niners had their turnaround isnt alex smith. its frank gore. </p>

[spoon]

<p>Let's admit one thing here though, this was one hell of a rookie class!&nbsp; I can see your point on the numbers/stats with Young yet he win a lot of games down the stretch.&nbsp; He was incredible at times, and very human at others but that happens to even the best players.&nbsp; However, the league is really going overboard on the hype here as you stated.&nbsp; The true test will come next year when teams don't look to the next week and actually game plan aroung Young and the new Titan team.&nbsp; I love Fisher and think he should get most of the credit for the way his team's season went.&nbsp; He made the moves at the right time to get him ready and to put him in later in the year.&nbsp; </p>

[PhishHead]

<strong>phixion</strong> wrote:<br /><p>ur bush argument that he shared the carries with deuce ic na take that the other way and say that a rookie of the year back is a feature back who puts up a 1000 yds. </p><p>and yes their d won a single game for them, and i believe that win was more cuz garrard sucks ass than tens d. and ask a giant fan if young should be rookie of the year, or a colts fan. i can name at least three games that the titans won on vince youngs shoulders alone. thats more than enough right there. and drew bennett is a good reciever? on most teams he'd be lucky to play slot. and troupe is solid ill never ever say hes even a top ten te. and for smith, ask young who he'd want bryant and battle or bennett and bobby wade, i dont think you can argue this with a straight face. oh yeah and smith has vernon david who is going to be a top three te in this league before the end of next year. and the biggest reason the niners had their turnaround isnt alex smith. its frank gore. </p><p>&nbsp;as a niners fan i say this...Battle and Bryant are very underrated and actually very good Receivers.&nbsp; Last year Bryant had a 1000 yard season in Cleveland and this was Battles first year as a starting WR, last year he split time.</p><p>and yes Frank Gore was really the entire reason we won most of our games. and our D was alot better then it was supposed to be especially walt harris with his 8 ints.&nbsp; </p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>Snacks</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I do not think Young deserved rooki of the year. I know he helped a team win some games is a row, but he still ended up as a .500 win % </p><p>vince was 8-5 this year, the other 3 losses were kerry collins</p>