Eli Manning..

[Patches]

<p>I know.. this probably belongs in the Giants thread, but I will be discussing other QBs from other teams, so I thought this would interest people other than fans of Big Blue.</p><p>&nbsp;Manning the Younger is getting torn apart in the NY press, and to a lesser extent, in the national press (i.e. ESPN)&nbsp; My contention is that the way to judge a quarterbacks progress is to compare it to others in his class- which in Eli's case most would think a comparison such a way would hurt Eli- but I disagree.</p><p>&nbsp;Big Ben has an INSANE winning percentage (including this debacle of a season), and has ALREADY won a superbowl.</p><p>&nbsp;Philip Rivers is showing the poise and professionalism of a QB of twice his experience and has led his Chargers to a 10-2 start.</p><p>&nbsp;Eli Manning has had an up and down career in the toughest market in sports, but if judgements were due today, most would feel the Giants made a mistake.</p><p>&nbsp;My challenge is- plug Eli in his fellow draftee situations- I honestly feel he would have accomplished what Rothlisberger has, and I think nearly any QB that belongs in the NFL would look at leas ok with LT (potentially WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE, the greatest RB ever).</p><p>So has Eli been a disappointment?&nbsp; I contend no.&nbsp; No, he has not won a Super Bowl.&nbsp; And Yes, he has cost the Giants costly football games.&nbsp; But the man is ICE cold-&nbsp;If you missed the play and only caught the QB reaction, you would not know if Eli threw a pick or a TD.&nbsp; And I dare NOT to make the comparison, but the only QB I know of with such an unflappable demeanor in my lifetime has been Joe Montana (the greatest QB ever imho and I am even a Giants fan)</p><p>&nbsp;Basically I feel Eli will be ok when he feels truly comfortable as the Giants being HIS team- not Tiki, not Michael, but HIS.&nbsp; He is too good of a talent to give up on, and in any other city this wouldn't ever be a question.&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;Thoughts?</p>

[phixion]

<p>Giants being HIS team</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>just throwing this out there, ur comparing him to rivers and ben. rivers team is wihtout question tomlinsons. when ben won the championship it was bettis and the defense's. so not really seeing it being 'his' team will help. but i can see how disgusting pass rushing lb may help win.</p>

[cougarjake13]

for all that we gave up we have no choice but to ride eli until he becomes better or proves he's no more than the ozzie canseco of football

[A.J.]

It's only his second season as a starter, his team is banged up, and his coach is dead man walking.&nbsp; I think he'll get better.

[TheVHD]

I am a Broncos fan and watching John Elway most of my life I am spoiled.&nbsp; But I will say this when Elway retired the Broncos made Brian Griese the starter... I hated him from day 1.&nbsp; The main reason that I couldn't stand Griese is that he had no passion.&nbsp; He had a blank stare and you never knew what he was thinking or doing.&nbsp; He put up good stats his 1st two seasons&nbsp;and everyone was singing his praises... but in time&nbsp;he showed what he really was a #2 and a average #2 at that... That is Eli's destiny as well his blank stares and blah personality is not going to get it done in the NFL.&nbsp; On top of that he's not that good a passer.&nbsp; He's got a #1 WR in Plexico, possibly the best RB in the NFC with Tiki, and the top TE in Shockey, and he's not getting it done.&nbsp; My opinion... Eli will be holding a clipboard somewhere in 3 years.

[HeyGuy]

<p>It was a bad move by the giants making that trade. Not because Rivers is having a great season. But the giants gave away more picks which turned out to be the SD kicker who is a top 5 kicker in the NFL and merimen (sp) mlb. He is prob a top 3 mlb in the NFL/ Plus the giants had to pay manning top $$$. I think he was over rated coming out of college because he was peyton's brother. He went to mississippi, they dont really play the best of talented teams. He looks and acts like he&nbsp; has no passion, it a shame. Cheer up Giant fans atleast you dont have joey harrington qb'in your favorite team. Miami is very upsetting to me this year.</p>

[cougarjake13]

<p>saw this article on eli its not a bad read</p><p><a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6246654">http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6246654</a></p>

[sailor]

<font size="2">eli's supporting cast is much worse than the chargers this year and the steelers last year.&nbsp; just look at how ben's doing with a diminished group around him this year.&nbsp; eli's not half-bad.&nbsp; he's a decent qb and will only get better.&nbsp; he has passion, despite posts to the contrary.&nbsp; i also think he's hurt by the fact that he just looks goofy.&nbsp; he can't help that and i really think it influences others opinions of him. </font>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>bronxmarc</strong> wrote:<br /><font size="2">eli's supporting cast is much worse than the chargers this year and the steelers last year.&nbsp; just look at how ben's doing with a diminished group around him this year.&nbsp; eli's not half-bad.&nbsp; he's a decent qb and will only get better.&nbsp; he has passion, despite posts to the contrary.&nbsp; i also think he's hurt by the fact that he just looks goofy.&nbsp; he can't help that and i really think it influences others opinions of him. </font><p>i'd beg to differ on the compariswon to the chargers</p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; eli&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;rivers</p><p>RB&nbsp;tiki barber&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;LT</p><p>TE&nbsp; shockey&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;gates</p><p>WR plax, toomer&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; mccardell parker</p><p>to me it looks about even rivers has the better but not by much rb, te is a wash and eli has better recievers</p><p>now the o line is where rivers is helped the most</p><p>and ben's problems are more about his off the field stuff then on it</p>

[sailor]

<strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>bronxmarc</strong> wrote:<br /><font size="2">eli's supporting cast is much worse than the chargers this year and the steelers last year. just look at how ben's doing with a diminished group around him this year. eli's not half-bad. he's a decent qb and will only get better. he has passion, despite posts to the contrary. i also think he's hurt by the fact that he just looks goofy. he can't help that and i really think it influences others opinions of him. </font><p>i'd beg to differ on the compariswon to the chargers</p><p> eli rivers</p><p>RB tiki barber LT</p><p>TE shockey gates</p><p>WR plax, toomer mccardell parker</p><p>to me it looks about even rivers has the better but not by much rb, te is a wash and eli has better recievers</p><p>now the o line is where rivers is helped the most</p><p>and ben's problems are more about his off the field stuff then on it</p><p>&nbsp;<font size="2">LDT is insanely better than half-retired tiki.&nbsp; you are a madman if you think shockey is anywhere near gates.&nbsp; he is a master of self-promotion, not much more.&nbsp; receivers i'd call a push, possible slight edge to giants.&nbsp; offensive line to chargers.&nbsp; PLUS a bowl of gravy would coach the giants better than coughlin.&nbsp; ESD is actually right on this one, he's lost that team.&nbsp; he almost single-handedly cost them that jacksonville game by not running out the clock, which was a soul-stealing loss and effectively ended their season.&nbsp; i was shocked they played so well in their loss to dallas (it also showed a lot that eli came back and had his 2nd best game of the year in that game.)&nbsp; as for ben, if he bounces back next year, i'll concede his failures this year were due to his injury.&nbsp; personally i think it's more the people that he lost than anything else. </font></p>

[cougarjake13]

<p>the only difference i see between gates and shockey stats wise are more td's for gates and shockey's been under utilized since becoming a giant</p><p>antonio gates</p><p><strong>Stats Team&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; G&nbsp; GS&nbsp; REC&nbsp; YDS&nbsp; AVG LNG TD</strong> <br />2003 Chargers&nbsp; 15&nbsp; 11&nbsp;&nbsp; 24&nbsp;&nbsp; 389&nbsp; 16.2 48&nbsp; 2 <br />2004 Chargers&nbsp; 15&nbsp; 15&nbsp;&nbsp; 81&nbsp;&nbsp; 964&nbsp; 11.9 72 13 <br />2005 Chargers&nbsp; 15&nbsp; 15&nbsp;&nbsp; 89&nbsp; 1101&nbsp;12.4 38 10 <br />2006 Chargers&nbsp; 12&nbsp; 12&nbsp;&nbsp; 57&nbsp;&nbsp; 694&nbsp; 12.2 57&nbsp; 6&nbsp; <br />Career&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;57&nbsp; 53&nbsp; 251 3148&nbsp; 12.5 72 31 </p><p>jeremy shockey</p><p><strong>Stats Team&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; G&nbsp; GS&nbsp; REC YDS&nbsp;&nbsp; AVG LNG TD</strong>&nbsp; <br />2002 Giants&nbsp; 15&nbsp; 14&nbsp;&nbsp; 74&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 894&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;12.1&nbsp; 30&nbsp; 2 <br />2003 Giants&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 9&nbsp;&nbsp; 9&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 48&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;535&nbsp;&nbsp; 11.1&nbsp; 46&nbsp; 2&nbsp; <br />2004 Giants&nbsp; 15&nbsp; 15&nbsp;&nbsp; 61&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 666&nbsp;&nbsp; 10.9&nbsp; 38&nbsp; 6 <br />2005 Giants&nbsp; 15&nbsp; 15&nbsp;&nbsp; 65&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 891&nbsp;&nbsp; 13.7&nbsp; 59&nbsp; 7 <br />2006 Giants&nbsp; 12&nbsp; 12&nbsp;&nbsp; 50&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;507&nbsp;&nbsp; 10.1&nbsp; 21&nbsp; 6&nbsp; <br />Career&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 66&nbsp; 65 298&nbsp; 3493&nbsp;&nbsp; 11.7&nbsp; 59 23</p>

[sailor]

<strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><p>the only difference i see between gates and shockey stats wise are more td's for gates and shockey's been under utilized since becoming a giant</p><p>antonio gates</p><p><strong>Stats Team G GS REC YDS AVG LNG TD</strong> <br />2003 Chargers 15 11 24 389 16.2 48 2 <br />2004 Chargers 15 15 81 964 11.9 72 13 <br />2005 Chargers 15 15 89 1101 12.4 38 10 <br />2006 Chargers 12 12 57 694 12.2 57 6 <br />Career 57 53 251 3148 12.5 72 31 </p><p>jeremy shockey</p><p><strong>Stats Team G GS REC YDS AVG LNG TD</strong> <br />2002 Giants 15 14 74 894 12.1 30 2 <br />2003 Giants 9 9 48 535 11.1 46 2 <br />2004 Giants 15 15 61 666 10.9 38 6 <br />2005 Giants 15 15 65 891 13.7 59 7 <br />2006 Giants 12 12 50 507 10.1 21 6 <br />Career 66 65 298 3493 11.7 59 23</p><p><font size="2">&nbsp;last 3 years:</font></p><p><font size="2">81 - 934&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 61 - 666</font></p><p><font size="2">89 - 1101&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; 65 - 891</font></p><p><font size="2">57 - 694&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 50 - 507</font></p><p><font size="2">227 - 2729&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 176 - 2064</font></p><p><font size="2">&nbsp;</font></p><p><font size="2">also tds are 29 - 19.&nbsp; no comparison anywhere in there.&nbsp;</font></p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>bronxmarc</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><p>the only difference i see between gates and shockey stats wise are more td's for gates and shockey's been under utilized since becoming a giant</p><p>antonio gates</p><p><strong>Stats Team G GS REC YDS AVG LNG TD</strong> <br />2003 Chargers 15 11 24 389 16.2 48 2 <br />2004 Chargers 15 15 81 964 11.9 72 13 <br />2005 Chargers 15 15 89 1101 12.4 38 10 <br />2006 Chargers 12 12 57 694 12.2 57 6 <br />Career 57 53 251 3148 12.5 72 31 </p><p>jeremy shockey</p><p><strong>Stats Team G GS REC YDS AVG LNG TD</strong> <br />2002 Giants 15 14 74 894 12.1 30 2 <br />2003 Giants 9 9 48 535 11.1 46 2 <br />2004 Giants 15 15 61 666 10.9 38 6 <br />2005 Giants 15 15 65 891 13.7 59 7 <br />2006 Giants 12 12 50 507 10.1 21 6 <br />Career 66 65 298 3493 11.7 59 23</p><p><font size="2">&nbsp;last 3 years:</font></p><p><font size="2">81 - 934&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 61 - 666</font></p><p><font size="2">89 - 1101&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; 65 - 891</font></p><p><font size="2">57 - 694&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 50 - 507</font></p><p><font size="2">227 - 2729&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 176 - 2064</font></p><p><font size="2"></font></p><p><font size="2">also tds are 29 - 19.&nbsp; no comparison anywhere in there.&nbsp;</font></p><p>yes but that just shows that brees and the chargers used gates more than the giants ever do with shockey</p><p>the giants should have him more involved in the game plan and sometimes it seems like eli,warner or collins never looked his way for an entire half, i doubt that ever happens to antonio</p>

[sailor]

<strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>bronxmarc</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><p>the only difference i see between gates and shockey stats wise are more td's for gates and shockey's been under utilized since becoming a giant</p><p>antonio gates</p><p><strong>Stats Team G GS REC YDS AVG LNG TD</strong> <br />2003 Chargers 15 11 24 389 16.2 48 2 <br />2004 Chargers 15 15 81 964 11.9 72 13 <br />2005 Chargers 15 15 89 1101 12.4 38 10 <br />2006 Chargers 12 12 57 694 12.2 57 6 <br />Career 57 53 251 3148 12.5 72 31 </p><p>jeremy shockey</p><p><strong>Stats Team G GS REC YDS AVG LNG TD</strong> <br />2002 Giants 15 14 74 894 12.1 30 2 <br />2003 Giants 9 9 48 535 11.1 46 2 <br />2004 Giants 15 15 61 666 10.9 38 6 <br />2005 Giants 15 15 65 891 13.7 59 7 <br />2006 Giants 12 12 50 507 10.1 21 6 <br />Career 66 65 298 3493 11.7 59 23</p><p><font size="2"> last 3 years:</font></p><p><font size="2">81 - 934 61 - 666</font></p><p><font size="2">89 - 1101 65 - 891</font></p><p><font size="2">57 - 694 50 - 507</font></p><p><font size="2">227 - 2729 176 - 2064</font></p><p><font size="2"></font></p><p><font size="2">also tds are 29 - 19. no comparison anywhere in there. </font></p><p>yes but that just shows that brees and the chargers used gates more than the giants ever do with shockey</p><p>the giants should have him more involved in the game plan and sometimes it seems like eli,warner or collins never looked his way for an entire half, i doubt that ever happens to antonio</p><p>&nbsp;<font size="2">but how much of it is him under<font size="2">-performing?&nbsp; it's not as easy as deciding to &quot;</font></font><font size="2">have him more involved in the game plan.&quot;&nbsp; do you think jerry rice has the records he has for tds and receptions simply because the coaches felt like throwing him the ball a lot?&nbsp; talent plays a large part in it.&nbsp; jeremy's a very good player, i just don't see him in antonio's class.<br /></font></p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>bronxmarc</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>bronxmarc</strong> wrote:<br /><font size="2">eli's supporting cast is much worse than the chargers this year and the steelers last year. just look at how ben's doing with a diminished group around him this year. eli's not half-bad. he's a decent qb and will only get better. he has passion, despite posts to the contrary. i also think he's hurt by the fact that he just looks goofy. he can't help that and i really think it influences others opinions of him. </font><p>i'd beg to differ on the compariswon to the chargers</p><p>eli rivers</p><p>RB tiki barber LT</p><p>TE shockey gates</p><p>WR plax, toomer mccardell parker</p><p>to me it looks about even rivers has the better but not by much rb, te is a wash and eli has better recievers</p><p>now the o line is where rivers is helped the most</p><p>and ben's problems are more about his off the field stuff then on it</p><p>&nbsp;<font size="2">LDT is insanely better than half-retired tiki.&nbsp; you are a madman if you think shockey is anywhere near gates.&nbsp; he is a master of self-promotion, not much more.&nbsp; receivers i'd call a push, possible slight edge to giants.&nbsp; offensive line to chargers.&nbsp; PLUS a bowl of gravy would coach the giants better than coughlin.&nbsp; ESD is actually right on this one, he's lost that team.&nbsp; he almost single-handedly cost them that jacksonville game by not running out the clock, which was a soul-stealing loss and effectively ended their season.&nbsp; i was shocked they played so well in their loss to dallas (it also showed a lot that eli came back and had his 2nd best game of the year in that game.)&nbsp; as for ben, if he bounces back next year, i'll concede his failures this year were due to his injury.&nbsp; personally i think it's more the people that he lost than anything else. </font></p><p>Eli has a ton of talent around him. First its not even close when it comes to WR. Advantage big time Giants. TE is even, Shockey comes to play every game. Sorry if he speaks his mind when his QB doesnt get him the ball. His #'s are very close to Gates the difference Rivers gets him the ball and Eli sucks. Coming into the season people were talking about The Super Bowl for the Giants. No one even thought SD would be contending for the playoffs with a new QB. Not only are they going to the playoffs they may go all the way. A lot has to do with the play of Rivers. Last year Eli died at the end of the season. He has no heart, shows no emotion and he under throws his wr more then any limped arm qb I have seen in years.</p><p>As for Ben, who did he lose around him??? Bettis thats it and bettis was a goal line player only. Willie Parker is having a great year despite shitty Ben. Winning a Super Bowl doesnt make you a great QB. Ben was a winner because of the talent around him, a little bit of luck (cincy game and indy game, bad calls in the sb) and play calling that would help him not&nbsp; lose the game. There are some QB's that you have to win the game and some that you just want to NOT lose the game and Ben is one of them. He has 15 td's this year and 20 int, how is it now him? Of course it is have you seen some of his throws this year that were picked off? He barely avg 200 yards a game for his 3 year career. I still cant believe&nbsp;he won a Super Bowl!</p>

[phixion]

in this gates vs shockey discussion i just want to add one thing that no has seemed to mention: blocking. shox is a beast blocking, and it takes alot for me to say that cuz i hate the fucker. gates is at best a mediocre blocker. shockey is a big reason y the giants have the running game they do. the chargers reason is LT. lts best blocker is loranzo neal, is o line is okay there isnt one top 5 guy on that line at his position. chris snee is a top 5 rg in the league. so you can compare shockey and gates, because theres alot more to being a te than just catching a damn ball.

[sailor]

<strong>Campo</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>bronxmarc</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>bronxmarc</strong> wrote:<br /><font size="2">eli's supporting cast is much worse than the chargers this year and the steelers last year. just look at how ben's doing with a diminished group around him this year. eli's not half-bad. he's a decent qb and will only get better. he has passion, despite posts to the contrary. i also think he's hurt by the fact that he just looks goofy. he can't help that and i really think it influences others opinions of him. </font><p>i'd beg to differ on the compariswon to the chargers</p><p>eli rivers</p><p>RB tiki barber LT</p><p>TE shockey gates</p><p>WR plax, toomer mccardell parker</p><p>to me it looks about even rivers has the better but not by much rb, te is a wash and eli has better recievers</p><p>now the o line is where rivers is helped the most</p><p>and ben's problems are more about his off the field stuff then on it</p><p> <font size="2">LDT is insanely better than half-retired tiki. you are a madman if you think shockey is anywhere near gates. he is a master of self-promotion, not much more. receivers i'd call a push, possible slight edge to giants. offensive line to chargers. PLUS a bowl of gravy would coach the giants better than coughlin. ESD is actually right on this one, he's lost that team. he almost single-handedly cost them that jacksonville game by not running out the clock, which was a soul-stealing loss and effectively ended their season. i was shocked they played so well in their loss to dallas (it also showed a lot that eli came back and had his 2nd best game of the year in that game.) as for ben, if he bounces back next year, i'll concede his failures this year were due to his injury. personally i think it's more the people that he lost than anything else. </font></p><p>Eli has a ton of talent around him. First its not even close when it comes to WR. Advantage big time Giants. TE is even, Shockey comes to play every game. Sorry if he speaks his mind when his QB doesnt get him the ball. His #'s are very close to Gates the difference Rivers gets him the ball and Eli sucks. Coming into the season people were talking about The Super Bowl for the Giants. No one even thought SD would be contending for the playoffs with a new QB. Not only are they going to the playoffs they may go all the way. A lot has to do with the play of Rivers. Last year Eli died at the end of the season. He has no heart, shows no emotion and he under throws his wr more then any limped arm qb I have seen in years.</p><p>As for Ben, who did he lose around him??? Bettis thats it and bettis was a goal line player only. Willie Parker is having a great year despite shitty Ben. Winning a Super Bowl doesnt make you a great QB. Ben was a winner because of the talent around him, a little bit of luck (cincy game and indy game, bad calls in the sb) and play calling that would help him not lose the game. There are some QB's that you have to win the game and some that you just want to NOT lose the game and Ben is one of them. He has 15 td's this year and 20 int, how is it now him? Of course it is have you seen some of his throws this year that were picked off? He barely avg 200 yards a game for his 3 year career. I still cant believe he won a Super Bowl!</p><p><font size="2">bettis had 110 carries, not exactly a goal-line back, but definitely not a starter.&nbsp; randle el also left the team.&nbsp; i thought there were some o-line changes, but i don't have any names.&nbsp; i also never said ben was great, i agree his job is to be a game manager and to not lose games.&nbsp; so now we have 3 options for ben (since you agreed with neither of us): 1, he is injured, 2, he lost key players, 3, he sucks and always has.&nbsp; his completion percentage is down just 2.6% from la

[JimBeam]

<p>I'm not a Giants fan by any means ( actually a Saints fan ) but clearly Eli's suffering from the comparisons to his brother AND playing in NY.</p><p>I hope that people really dont make Rivers into a HOF QB based on 12 games.</p><p>I dont know much about gates but I see Shockey drop an awful lot of passes and maybe that's why his numbers make him look under-utilized.</p><p>Give Manning a few more years and then make a decision.</p><p>Giants fans would've been pissed in Eli had gone to SD and had done what Rivers is doing know and Rivers was the one here taking the beating ( although expectations wouldnt have been as high seeing as he's not Peyton's brother and Archie's son ).</p><p>Off topic a bit&nbsp;but where is the 3rd son ?</p><p>Isnt he in college by now ?</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[phixion]

<p>[QUOTE][Giants fans would've been pissed in Eli had gone to SD and had done what Rivers is doing know and Rivers was the one here taking the beating /QUOTE]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>i dont think so cuz they would have had that number 11 overall still instead of giving that to SD. and i definitely dont think SD could be doing this wihtout the man the drafted with that pick merriman. just sayin..........</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>JimBeam</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I dont know much about gates but I see Shockey drop an awful lot of passes and maybe that's why his numbers make him look under-utilized </p><p>he gets so ver few looks that the drops look much worse</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>JimBeam</strong> wrote: <p>Off topic a bit&nbsp;but where is the 3rd son ?</p><p>Isnt he in college by now ? </p><p>there's a 3rd but he's older than peyton, his name is cooper and he was good in his own right, a wide receiver though but he was diagnosed with spinal stenosis and had to quit sports</p><p><a href="http://www.sptimes.com/2004/11/07/Sports/The_other_Manning.shtml">http://www.sptimes.com/2004/11/07/Sports/The_other_Manning.shtml</a></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>now there's another simms in the pipeline, phil's son and chris' younger bro matthew simms who's suppossedly going to be better than chris</p><p><a href="http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/104-01062006-594080.html">http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/104-01062006-594080.html</a></p>

[JimBeam]

<p>I mean you can got back and say about the Giants trade this and that but in the end isnt it possible that the #11 pick could've sucked as well ?</p><p>They made a move that they thought was right, was very ballsey, and who knows how it turns out.</p><p>Elway didnt win any Superbowls until his last few years and marion never win won so lets give the guy time.</p><p>As fars as Shockey goes you're a professional. I dont care if they throw to you once a game. You better catch that one pass. The WRs in Indy seem to flourish pretty well even when Harrisont the main target. And Harrions himself who doesnt get many passes when the others get the attention. ( I think he didnt have any catches or none that were very big in the NBC games against Philly )</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>JimBeam</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I mean you can got back and say about the Giants trade this and that but in the end isnt it possible that the #11 pick could've sucked as well ?</p><p> </p><p>there's no guarantee that if we dont make that trade that everthing that happened after that draft and into the next one still happens as it did</p><p>chargers dont make that trade and maybe they try to address some&nbsp; of those needs in the eli draft or throu free agency</p><p>and who's to say that merriman would still be available at that pick ?</p>

[Fezticle98]

<strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br />for all that we gave up we have no choice but to ride eli until he becomes better or proves he's no more than the <font style="background-color: #ffff00">ozzie canseco</font> of football <p><img src="/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/clap.gif" border="0" width="28" height="30" />Nice Ozzie Canseco reference!</p>

[Patches]

<p>Its good to see that for the most part, people agree with me and aren't ready to jump to conclusions ALA Filip Bondy.</p><p>&nbsp;COUGHLIN MUST GO.&nbsp; I am a DIE HARD Giants fans, and I do NOT want them to make the playoffs.&nbsp; I do NOT want Tom Coughlin to be the Head Coach next season.</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>Patches</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Its good to see that for the most part, people agree with me and aren't ready to jump to conclusions ALA Filip Bondy.</p><p>&nbsp;COUGHLIN MUST GO.&nbsp; I am a DIE HARD Giants fans, and I do NOT want them to make the playoffs.&nbsp; I do NOT want Tom Coughlin to be the Head Coach next season.</p><p>we are basically almost ensured a playoff birth</p><p>our competition</p><table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2" width="100%" class="bgBdr" align="center"><tbody><p><tr class="bgHdr3" align="center"><td width="21%" align="left"><strong>Wild-card teams</strong></td><td width="9%"><strong>W-L</strong></td><td width="8%"><strong>Div.</strong></td><td width="8%"><strong>Conf.</strong></td><td><strong>Next Game</strong></td></tr></p><p><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td align="left">5. <strong>EAGLES</strong></td><td>8-6</td><td>4-1</td><td>7-3</td><td>@ DAL (9-5), ATL (7-7) <br /><strong>= 16-12 (.571)</strong></td></tr></p><p><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td align="left">6. <strong>GIANTS</strong></td><td>7-7</td><td>3-2</td><td>6-4</td><td>NO (8-5), @WAS (5-9) <br /><strong>= 14-14 (.500)</strong></td></tr></p><p><tr class="bgHdr3" align="center"><td width="21%" align="left"><strong>Still alive</strong></td><td width="9%"><strong>W-L</strong></td><td width="8%"><strong>Div.</strong></td><td width="8%"><strong>Conf.</strong></td><td><strong>Remaining schedule</strong></td></tr></p><p><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td align="left">7. <strong>FALCONS</strong> </td><td>7-7</td><td>3-2</td><td>5-5</td><td>CAR (6-8), @PHI (8-6) <br /><strong>= 14-14 (.500)</strong></td></tr></p><p><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td align="left">8. <strong>PACKERS</strong> </td><td>7-8</td><td>4-1</td><td>6-5</td><td>@CHI (12-2) <br /><strong>= 12-2 (.857)</strong></td></tr></p><p><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td align="left">9. <strong>49ERS</strong> </td><td>6-8</td><td>3-2</td><td>5-6</td><td>ARI (4-10), @DEN (8-6) <br /><strong>= 12-16 (.429)</strong></td></tr></p><p><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td align="left">10. <strong>PANTHERS</strong> </td><td>6-8</td><td>3-1</td><td>4-6</td><td>@ATL (7-7), @NO (9-5) <br /><strong>= 16-12 (.571)</strong></td></tr></p><p><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td align="left">11. <strong>RAMS</strong> </td><td>6-8</td><td>2-4</td><td>4-6</td><td>WAS (5-9), @MIN (6-9) <br /><strong>= 11-18 (.379)</strong></td></tr></p><p><tr class="bgC" align="center"><td align="left">12. <strong>VIKINGS</strong> </td><td>6-9</td><td>2-4</td><td>6-5</td><td>@STL (6-8) <br /><strong>= 6-8 (.429)</strong></td></tr></p></tbody></table><p>&nbsp;</p><p>as long as we dont lose both of our next 2 games were pretty much in, asuming we lose to new orleans and beat the redskins as will most likely happen or has the best chance to happen</p><p><strong><em><font size="3">So the giants at 8-8 (7-5 conf) vs other playoff contenders</font></em></strong></p><p><strong>Falcons</strong>&nbsp; win tiebreaker due to head to head, so unless they go 9-7 we beat them</p><p><strong>Packers</strong> win tiebreaker since we had a tougher schedule, dont see them beating the bears</p><p><strong>49ers</strong> win tiebreaker due to better conference record</p><p><strong>Panthers </strong>win tiebreaker due to head to head</p><p><strong>Rams win</strong> tiebreaker due to better conference record</p><p><strong>Vikings</strong> the best they could do is 7-9, now the eagles already have 8 wins so they cant catch them, and the giants as well as everyone else on the list would have to lose all remaining games&nbsp;and if minn and the giants finished at 7-9 and they win because they be 7-5 conf while the giants would be 6-6</p><p>so basically as long as we win one game prob against the redskins we're ensured to get in as long as atlanta doesnt win out</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by cougarjake13 on 12-23-06 @ 5:00 PM</span>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>Patches</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Its good to see that for the most part, people agree with me and aren't ready to jump to conclusions ALA Filip Bondy.</p><p>&nbsp;COUGHLIN MUST GO.&nbsp; I am a DIE HARD Giants fans, and I do NOT want them to make the playoffs.&nbsp; I do NOT want Tom Coughlin to be the Head Coach next season.</p><p>aside from my previous post i agree coughlin needs to go and i think he'll prob be gone even if we make the playoffs b/c we wont go far in the playoffs even if we get there</p><p>as of right now we'd face the cowboys in dallas as long as dallas remains the 3 seed and nfc east winner, philly can still win the division but either way we'd be on the road at dallas, philly, or seattle and yeh we have won in dallas and philly this year but that was a much different giants team</p><p>question is who will they replace him with, i've heard charlie weiss name mentioned but didnt he just sign a 10 yr contract with notre dame ??</p><p>other than him who's out there that will be any better than coughlin ???</p>