2007 Yankees Off-Season Thread (The Destruction) [Archive]

Bulldogcakes

10-07-2006, 03:51 PM

Alright, lets get into thisMussina-Let him go. He's 38, and has never really delivered in the postseason outside of the Oakland relief appearance. PLus there's Zito, Mulder and available thru free agency, and who knows what trades might be made. Johnson-Eat the contract and send him to the NL. He's really no use to us, his health issues make him too unreliable.A-Rod-The Angels want to do Santana and the SS prospect for A-Rod (the trade deadline Tejada deal)? Sign me up right now. But to be fair, who the hell plays 3rd next year? Nobody that attractive as a free agent, so it would need to be a trade. Jaret Wright-They have a buyout/option thing on him which makes him a free agent. Use it. Torre-I'm on the record about this for over a year now. They need new leadership. Bernie- Bring him back as a 5th OF. He should play as long as he wants and retire a Yankee. Pavano- Can you get anything for him? Maybe package him with a more desirable chip like A-Rod (ala Beckett/Lowell)? Do it.Sheffield-There's a rumored sign and trade where the Yanks pick up his option and send him somewhere. Sounds good to me. If not, he walks.      to be continued 

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 10-7-06 @ 7:53 PM

Bossanova

10-07-2006, 03:54 PM

YES network post game/ season report is basically laying it all out what they need to do next year.  First time I have ever agreed with Micheal Kay

Bulldogcakes

10-07-2006, 04:01 PM

I forgot Mark Buerhle from the White Sox is a lefty and a free agent. Yanks should get back to having at least 2 lefties in their rotation. Yankee stadium has always been lefty friendly.   And another factor (though probably not for Cashman) is the progress of Hughes. If he blows through AAA, he could be up early next year if spomeone gets hurt.

HBox

10-07-2006, 04:01 PM

The big question here is Phillip Hughes. As tempting as it seems with how the pitching staff seems to be shaking out for next year (It looks like only Wang and Pavano will be back under contract, with Johnson questionable) it tempting to either 1. Rush him up or 2. Trade him for short term help. The smart thing is to do neither and wait for him in 2008.I think the major thing that needs to be done is firing Joe Torre and Mizzilli. Anybody on the coaching staff with connections to the old guard. And that would rule out hiring Joe Girardi. Make it as clear as possible that this is a new era, and get a coach different enough to drive that home. Lou Piniella seems like the obvious choice. The biggest problem to me seems mindset because this lineup has enough talent.

TheMojoPin

10-07-2006, 04:05 PM

I hate Pinella, but this lineup is pretty much tailor-made for a guy like him.  He'd be a perfect fit, and I'd be shocked if the Yanks didn't win another WS in the next 2-3 years under him with who they have hitting.

Bulldogcakes

10-07-2006, 04:06 PM

I dont think its mindset, I think its too many chiefs, not enough indians. They have a lineup of all stars in every slot and yet they go into prolonged slumps. One culprit all of NY knows about, but there are others as well. Here's another interesting question. They STILL have too many starting OFs for next year, even with letting Sheff go. Do they package one of them? If so, who?Matsui's not going anywhere. They have deals where they sell the Yankees all over Japan that George makes a fortune on. Damon? No way. Had a great year, was very valuable to the team on the field and in the clubhouse. Abreau? Cant. Makes 17 mil next year. PLus he was great too.  Which leaves you with Melky. I'd HATE HATE HATE to do it. But if it gets you a young starter, you might have to.   

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 10-7-06 @ 8:10 PM

Bossanova

10-07-2006, 04:07 PM

Just an idea.  If it fails I don'e care, cause the Mest are set at manager.  Maybe the Yanks should look at Dusty Baker.  He was able to keep Bonds under control and (roids or not) all he did was win 4 straight mvp's. Maybe he could get the talent thats left to wanna win for him. 

This message was edited by RonIsHankAaron on 10-7-06 @ 8:08 PM

Bulldogcakes

10-07-2006, 04:11 PM

RonIsHankAaron wrote: Just an idea. If it fails I don'e care, cause the Mest are set at manager. Maybe the Yanks should look at Dusty Baker. He was able to keep Bonds under control and (roids or not) all he did was win 4 straight mvp's. Maybe he could get the talent thats left to wanna win for him.

This message was edited by RonIsHankAaron on 10-7-06 @ 8:08 PM WE already have a white Dusty Baker. His name is Joe Torre. <blockquote />

HBox

10-07-2006, 04:12 PM

RonIsHankAaron wrote: Just an idea. If it fails I don'e care, cause the Mest are set at manager. Maybe the Yanks should look at Dusty Baker. He was able to keep Bonds under control and (roids or not) all he did was win 4 straight mvp's. Maybe he could get the talent thats left to wanna win for him.

This message was edited by RonIsHankAaron on 10-7-06 @ 8:08 PM  You just made me vomit a little in my mouth.

Bossanova

10-07-2006, 04:15 PM

Oh shit, I am an idoit.  I wasn't even thinking of his laid back Cali attitude.  My bad.

Bulldogcakes

10-07-2006, 04:16 PM

By the way, while I believe Joe should go, I also think it should be done the right way. They should call him down to Tampa and work out a settlement for his last year which can include extending the years with a personal services deal. Whatever, but he shouldn't leave on bad terms. And as popular as he is in NY its just smart business.

BoondockSaint

10-07-2006, 04:23 PM

Bonds is a free agent.

HBox

10-07-2006, 04:23 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: By the way, while I believe Joe should go, I also think it should be done the right way. They should call him down to Tampa and work out a settlement for his last year which can include extending the years with a personal services deal. Whatever, but he shouldn't leave on bad terms. And as popular as he is in NY its just smart business.   Whatever they need to do to get rid of him. I don't feel any malice towards him, don't neccessarily blame him for anything that just ahppened, but they need a big chnage and this is the single biggest thing they can do. I hope that he will be open to it if the front office makes it clear they don't want him back and they can end this in a nice way.

Bulldogcakes

10-07-2006, 04:25 PM

A-Rod just said on the post game that he 100% wants to stay in NY, and doesn't want to be traded.

Bossanova

10-07-2006, 04:29 PM

Anyone know how many years are left on ARods deal

Bulldogcakes

10-07-2006, 04:52 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: HBox wrote: Sorry to burst your bubble but Cano was always a 2B. He was drafted as a SS.   Cano wasn't drafted.   <a href="http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/robinson-cano.shtml" target="_self" title="He was an all star SS">He was an all star SS</a> for the south atlantic league in 2002

HBox

10-07-2006, 04:59 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:   Bulldogcakes wrote: HBox wrote: Sorry to burst your bubble but Cano was always a 2B. He was drafted as a SS. Cano wasn't drafted.     <a title="He was an all star SS" target="_self" href="http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/robinson-cano.shtml">He was an all star SS</a> for the south atlantic league in 2002   Looking at where he played the majoity of his games he was clearly a second baseman. That one season he played more at shortstop, but he only played 3 more games at SS than 2B. Since that season he only played one game at SS, and before that season he only played SS in 22 of 79 games. That one season was an aberration. Before and after it he was clearly a 2B.

whiskyriver

10-07-2006, 05:37 PM

as a diehard sox fan i so want to rub it in,but we were a 3rd place team. so i got
nothing........i'm still all warm and fuzzy inside.
this proves $ don't buy you wins.

El Mudo

10-07-2006, 06:07 PM

Arod traded to Florida for Dontrell (yanks will eat lots of money on the contract) I had always heard the rumor that the Yanks could have had Dontrelle for Cano and Phillips, but they didn't want to give up Cano And
besides, even though the Yankees would eat most of that contract, (a)
Florida's TEAM payroll is 17 million, (b) they already have a great 3B
(Miguel Cabrera) and Hanley Ramirez is REALLY good at SS, so I doubt
they have a need for ARod But he does need to go though...he's the most predictable, un-clutch player EVER.

Davios

10-07-2006, 06:20 PM

Hughes will be up next year and in my opinion he will be an integral part of the rotation. Cashman had an interview the other day on Pinstripesplus.com ( minor league paysite covering he Yankee minor leagues, it is VERY in depth if you feel like spending a couple bucks a month), in which he stated we would see Phil next year. He is going to be given the chance to win a rotation spot out of spring training, that may not happen but he will get the call by the all star break without a doubt. Gammons also talked the other day about the Yankees being a virtual lock to sign Daisuke Matsuzaka amnd how it is already well known. He is 26 from Japan throws mid 90s and has dominating stuff, probably the best pitcher to come out of Japan ever. As far as trading Alex, if they could get a decent package out of Anaheim ( and I do not consider Santana and Brandon Wood a decent package) they should do it simply because he can be replaced in free agency by Aramis Ramirez.

HBox

10-07-2006, 06:28 PM

I really hope they don't bring up Hughes next year considering the way they so strictly limited his pitches this year. I just don't think he will have the endurance for a season or even long starts (7-8 innings) on a regular basis. At worst you injure him by trying to stretch him. I think its in both parties best interests to leave Hughes in AAA for the entirety of the minor league season and only then if he has performed bring him up and test him out in September. One thing is for sure is that you can't leave a spot in the rotation open for him next year. If it were up to me I'd only bring him up to the majors for a spot start if injuries make the siutaion desperate.I also think it would be ironic, or something like that, if the Yanks trade A-Rod somewhere other than Chicago and they still end up with Aramis Ramirez considering the fight me and Mojo had about that a couple months ago.

Kevin

10-07-2006, 07:04 PM

The Angels offerd up Chone Figgons Erwin Santana and minor leaugers for Tejads. I would think they would give up more for Arod. I would do something like that in a heart beat. Sanatana is a nice hardthrwoing young sp. Figgons is our 3b, and pluck 1 or 2 more good prospects from that loaded farm team. Then i would sign Zito a top 3 of Wang Zito Santana is a good start in my mind.

El Mudo

10-07-2006, 07:05 PM

about the Yankees being a virtual lock to sign
Daisuke Matsuzaka amnd how it is already well known. He is 26 from
Japan throws mid 90s and has dominating stuff, probably the best
pitcher to come out of Japan ever I watched that guy demolish Cuba in the WBC....he is AWESOME

Kevin

10-07-2006, 07:07 PM

El Mudo wrote:  about the Yankees being a virtual lock to sign Daisuke Matsuzaka amnd how it is already well known. He is 26 from Japan throws mid 90s and has dominating stuff, probably the best pitcher to come out of Japan ever   I watched that guy demolish Cuba in the WBC....he is AWESOME Yea.... Irabu was supposed to throw 100 and be the Nolen Ryan of Japan, how did that turn out?? Did he throw harder than 93?But being 26, i would take a shot at him.

This message was edited by Kevin on 10-7-06 @ 11:08 PM

HBox

10-07-2006, 07:12 PM

Kevin wrote: The Angels offerd up Chone Figgons Erwin Santana and minor leaugers for Tejads. I would think they would give up more for Arod. I would do something like that in a heart beat. Sanatana is a nice hardthrwoing young sp. Figgons is our 3b, and pluck 1 or 2 more good prospects from that loaded farm team. Then i would sign Zito a top 3 of Wang Zito Santana is a good start in my mind.  If they trade A-Rod they better get much more than that and the best pitcher in that deal has to be better than Ervin Santana. I wouldn't trade Tejada for that garbage either.

HBox

10-07-2006, 07:14 PM

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdr0N9HDptg" target="_self">Daisuke Matsuzaka's "gyroball"</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsptUfnhVcc&mode=related&search=" target="_blank">Matsuzaka vs. Cuba</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdr0N9HDptg" target="_self"></a>

Kevin

10-07-2006, 07:15 PM

Santana was 16-8 not a great era. So who u think Jerrod Weaver? i do not think the Angels would never deal him though.

Kevin

10-07-2006, 07:18 PM

HBox wrote: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdr0N9HDptg" target="_self">Daisuke Matsuzaka's "gyroball"</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsptUfnhVcc&mode=related&search=" target="_blank">Matsuzaka vs. Cuba</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdr0N9HDptg" target="_self"></a>Wow that was impressive. My freind said he has arm probs though. Is there any truth to that?

HBox

10-07-2006, 07:23 PM

Kevin wrote: Santana was 16-8 not a great era. So who u think Jerrod Weaver? i do not think the Angels would never deal him though.  IF A-Rod went to the Angels I would ask for Weaver, but short of that I would want much more than Santana, maybe Scot Shields as a part I would warm up to. They supposedly have the deepest farm system in the league so i would definitely want at least a couple of their most highly touted prospects if they were dead set against trading Weaver. I definitely would not want Figgins. 100+ strikeout + less than 10 HRs does not compute. He's a utility player and I wouldn't want to use him as an everyday starter. He doesn't play against everyone else the way he plays against the Yanks.

newport king

10-07-2006, 07:25 PM

what in the fuck is a gyroball? it looks no different than any sinker/splitter i've ever seen.

El Mudo

10-07-2006, 07:25 PM

Kevin wrote: HBox wrote: <a target="_self" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdr0N9HDptg">Daisuke Matsuzaka's "gyroball"</a><a target="_blank" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsptUfnhVcc&mode=related&search=">Matsuzaka vs. Cuba</a> <a target="_self" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdr0N9HDptg"></a>Wow that was impressive. My freind said he has arm probs though. Is there any truth to that?  I'm
not sure if he has arm problems, just watching that guy combine an
upper 90s fastball with that unhittable splitter makes me wish he had a
DC jersey on...The guy is a beast <blockquote />

HBox

10-07-2006, 07:25 PM

Kevin wrote: HBox wrote: <a target="_self" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdr0N9HDptg">Daisuke Matsuzaka's "gyroball"</a><a target="_blank" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsptUfnhVcc&mode=related&search=">Matsuzaka vs. Cuba</a> <a target="_self" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdr0N9HDptg"></a>Wow that was impressive. My freind said he has arm probs though. Is there any truth to that?  I don't think he has had any but apparently scouts are concerned because of the way he throws the ball. In high school he once threw a 17 inning, 250 pitch complete game. So that can either be taken as  a ticking time bomb or a sign of incredible endruance.

HBox

10-07-2006, 07:27 PM

newport king wrote: what in the fuck is a gyroball? it looks no different than any sinker/splitter i've ever seen.  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroball" target="_blank">The "gyroball"</a> Matsuzaka claims he doesn't throw one, though.

El Mudo

10-07-2006, 07:28 PM

Meh...he could always live in the bullpen (where they need the most
help) if he really has arm and endurance problems....There are plenty
of relievers who live on one pitch (Hoffman, Rivera), and with that
splitter, he really is something special

newport king

10-07-2006, 07:28 PM

hbox, in the midst of raping the angels farm system, you forgot one thing, at this point arod is broken. you'l take what you can get for him plus giving cash.

johnniehardrock

10-07-2006, 07:29 PM

I want to throw a gyroball  <a href="http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-gyro031306&prov=yhoo&type=lgn">http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-gyro031306&prov=yhoo&type=lgn</a>

BoondockSaint

10-07-2006, 07:31 PM

Daisuke Matsuzaka: Rebounds Strong in Playoff Win -  10/7/2006 6:39:52 AM Update: Matsuzaka (arm) struck out 13 batters in a complete game shutout (six hits, no walks, four hit batsmen, 137 pitches) to lead the Seibu Lions to a 1-0 win over the SoftBank Hawks in the opening game of the Pacific League playoffs on Saturday, <a href="http://www.japanball.com/news.phtml?id=8059">JapanBall.com</a> reports. It was Matsuzaka’s first action since he was struck on the arm by a line drive in his last regular season start on September 26.

HBox

10-07-2006, 07:31 PM

newport king wrote: hbox, in the midst of raping the angels farm system, you forgot one thing, at this point arod is broken. you'l take what you can get for him plus giving cash.   Oh yeah, I forgot, there's a gun to next to Cashman's head forcing him to trade A-Rod. How silly of me.

El Mudo

10-07-2006, 07:31 PM

Threw a good gyro-ball: <img width="375" height="487" border="0" src="http://web.hao.ucar.edu/public/education/sp/images/aristotle.gif" />

Kevin

10-07-2006, 07:36 PM

It’s a moot point because with Pinella as manager there is no way Arod is going to waive his no trade clause. Even if Pinella is not the manager her won't. He will never be able to live with himself if he leaves NY like this. Although he was quoted tonight saying he would waive his no trade if the Yankees came to him saying they do not want him anymore. So who knows."I mean, if they're dying to get rid of me," he said when asked whether he would consider it. "I hope not. I mean, I'm 100 percent committed to being a Yankee and that's the only place I want to play. & I believe I can be part of the solution here. I've had success in New York -- in the regular season. I have to find it in the postseason."

This message was edited by Kevin on 10-7-06 @ 11:39 PM

newport king

10-07-2006, 07:42 PM

every yankee fan is calling for him to be traded. the guy has been beaten up for the last three years. i don't care i'm not a fan, but ask yourself, do you want to deal with this nonsense till his contract runs out?? or cut your losses and move on? his stock has taken a tremendous hit, theres no way around that.

HBox

10-07-2006, 07:48 PM

newport king wrote: every yankee fan is calling for him to be traded. the guy has been beaten up for the last three years. i don't care i'm not a fan, but ask yourself, do you want to deal with this nonsense till his contract runs out?? or cut your losses and move on? his stock has taken a tremendous hit, theres no way around that.   If Torre stays then I'd be more open to trading him. If they bring in someone new, especially Piniella, then I definitely want A-Rod here. If they can't get enough in a trade then I think we'll all find a way to put up with his 35 HRs and 120 RBIs. This series was not A-Rod's fault and even if he went on an ungodly tear the Yanks would still have lost.

BoondockSaint

10-07-2006, 07:49 PM

And never believe what A-Rod says.  He's always saying what he thinks he's supposed to say instead of saying what he really thinks.

mikeyboy

10-07-2006, 07:51 PM

johnniehardrock wrote: I want to throw a gyroballI'd love a gyro right now.

Fezticle98

10-07-2006, 10:30 PM

The answer is threefold:1) Throw more money at it--go for $300 million.B) Trade the players who come up small in clutch situations for young stars--e.g. Jared Weaver.and 3) Get some "new blood" in the dugout by hiring that young whippersnapper Lou Pinella.

spoon

10-07-2006, 11:46 PM

johnniehardrock wrote: Joe gone and Sweet Lou in........Arod traded to Florida for Dontrell (yanks will eat lots of money on the contract)Musina goneShef goneYeah right!  That's just why they kept him to lead the team, only to be traded for Arod.  Yank fans are so fucking idiotic and even if you're not a fan you are truly out of your mind.  Why the fuck would they even think to do that.  The Marlins are building around a great/young lefty, not a neurotic 3rd baseman/shortstop wannabe.  Welcome to Yankee dream trades 101.

spoon

10-07-2006, 11:51 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: I dont think its mindset, I think its too many chiefs, not enough indians. They have a lineup of all stars in every slot and yet they go into prolonged slumps. One culprit all of NY knows about, but there are others as well. Here's another interesting question. They STILL have too many starting OFs for next year, even with letting Sheff go. Do they package one of them? If so, who?Matsui's not going anywhere. They have deals where they sell the Yankees all over Japan that George makes a fortune on. Damon? No way. Had a great year, was very valuable to the team on the field and in the clubhouse. Abreau? Cant. Makes 17 mil next year. PLus he was great too.  Which leaves you with Melky. I'd HATE HATE HATE to do it. But if it gets you a young starter, you might have to.   This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 10-7-06 @ 8:10 PM Melky won't land you shit.  The yanks will do it the old fashioned way, spend over 200 million again like everyone else.....Oh yah, nevermind.

spoon

10-07-2006, 11:59 PM

Kevin wrote: The Angels offerd up Chone Figgons Erwin Santana and minor leaugers for Tejads. I would think they would give up more for Arod. I would do something like that in a heart beat. Sanatana is a nice hardthrwoing young sp. Figgons is our 3b, and pluck 1 or 2 more good prospects from that loaded farm team. Then i would sign Zito a top 3 of Wang Zito Santana is a good start in my mind.And you fucks wonder why we wouldn't give the yanks credit for their wins.  This would be real fair huh?  How about they fucking develop players the right way, ie hughes via Hbox's timeline, and stop buying every fucking top free agent all-star every fucking year.  It's getting old and it sure as hell is a joke that you people really have pride in this team/system.  It's like some rich cunt spending their dad's money on a nice car and acting like she earned it.  The yanks are so fucking done, even if they win.

spoon

10-08-2006, 12:02 AM

El Mudo wrote:  about the Yankees being a virtual lock to sign Daisuke Matsuzaka amnd how it is already well known. He is 26 from Japan throws mid 90s and has dominating stuff, probably the best pitcher to come out of Japan ever   I watched that guy demolish Cuba in the WBC....he is AWESOME Another example of the yankees bypassing the draft and outbidding everyone else in the league bc they have way too much power.  MLB really needs to curtail international contracts and start an international draft.  It's bullshit to the teams working hard with less assets and to those american born players that have to go the normal route. 

This message was edited by spoon on 10-8-06 @ 4:09 AM

Marc with a c

10-08-2006, 01:32 AM

i just hope the yankees don't have to contend with any shadows next year on there inevitable march to #27.

Doctor Z

10-08-2006, 01:35 AM

Whether anyone is for it or against it, A-Rod has undoubtedly played his last game as a Yankee. I don't even think this is a question. Love it or hate it, he's not coming back.
I think this is finally the year George gives Torre the ole' axe. He considered it after the collapse in 2004, but he was getting soft in his old age, gave Torre 2 more chances after that... It's becoming a pretty clear pattern... Torre can get teams to the playoffs, and then they collapse after that. Pinella is likely in.I would keep Moose. Along with Wang, he was the only guy I had any sense of faith in.Jaret Wright, obviously not coming back.Gary Sheffield, obviously not coming back.Bernie, hope he comes back. He can still swing the bat.Giambi, he should be back. He's a gamer and a strong offensive threat when he isn't nursing a fucked up wrist.Let me note that I drank for about 12 straight hours today, starting at 3:30 and increasingly more heavily throughout the day and into the night. I'm typing this at 5:35 in the morning, with a horrible headache, and severe depression setting in.

HBox

10-08-2006, 01:43 AM

I would keep Moose. Along with Wang, he was the only guy I had any sense of faith in.He did do a wonderful job holding on to the lead in Game 2.

Doctor Z

10-08-2006, 01:54 AM

Look, I didn't forget game 2. But you can't dismiss a guy who has been an overall fantastic pickup, probably the best in the last 5 years, because he had one sub-par outing in the post-season. Moose has put up a lot of great regular season and post-season performances for us. We lost that game for the same reason we lost games 3 and 4: OUR OFFENSE IMPLODED.

This message was edited by Doctor_Z on 10-8-06 @ 6:06 AM

Bulldogcakes

10-08-2006, 04:00 AM

whiskyriver wrote: as a diehard sox fan i so want to rub it in,but we were a 3rd place team. so i got
nothing........i'm still all warm and fuzzy inside.
this proves $ don't buy you wins. Exactly. So tell everyone to stop bitching about our payroll.  <blockquote />

Bulldogcakes

10-08-2006, 04:22 AM

Davios wrote: Hughes will be up next year and in my opinion he will be an integral part of the rotation. Cashman had an interview the other day on Pinstripesplus.com ( minor league paysite covering he Yankee minor leagues, it is VERY in depth if you feel like spending a couple bucks a month), in which he stated we would see Phil next year. He is going to be given the chance to win a rotation spot out of spring training, that may not happen but he will get the call by the all star break without a doubt. Gammons also talked the other day about the Yankees being a virtual lock to sign Daisuke Matsuzaka amnd how it is already well known. He is 26 from Japan throws mid 90s and has dominating stuff, probably the best pitcher to come out of Japan ever. As far as trading Alex, if they could get a decent package out of Anaheim ( and I do not consider Santana and Brandon Wood a decent package) they should do it simply because he can be replaced in free agency by Aramis Ramirez.  I think Hughes will be a backup plan if someone gets injured or is ineffective. Cashamn has said he's targeting a mid season call up, which could be as a starter or as bullpen help (like the Twins did with Santana)  I forgot about<a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Daisuke_Matsuzaka" target="_self" title="matsuzaka"> Matsuzaka</a> That's a straight $$ deal, so the Yanks should have the edge there if they want him. I expect them to overhaul the pitching staff, with the only starters remaning from this year being Wang and Johnson (if they cant move him)     <blockquote />

Bulldogcakes

10-08-2006, 04:35 AM

<a href="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/459629p-386756c.html" target="_self" title="Daily News says Torre's out">Daily News says Torre's out</a> Sort of. THey dont give any details. FAN has been reporting this, but the article is sketchy.

Bulldogcakes

10-08-2006, 04:41 AM

About all the A-Rod-Angels stuff. The Angels may have a much cheaper alternative, where they wont have to give up Santana or anyone from their major League roster. Gary Sheffield  Yanks have an option for 13 mil they can exercise to retain his rights. The free agent market this year is very thin on power hitting OFs. The Yanks cant use him, but if the Angels are willing to pay him that or something close they can work out a sign and trade. This has been rumored since mid season. BTW-That was one of the reasons he was playing 1st base, to make him more valuable to other teams who might have a need in either spot.

TheMojoPin

10-08-2006, 04:43 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  Davios wrote: Hughes will be up next year and in my opinion he will be an integral part of the rotation. Cashman had an interview the other day on Pinstripesplus.com ( minor league paysite covering he Yankee minor leagues, it is VERY in depth if you feel like spending a couple bucks a month), in which he stated we would see Phil next year. He is going to be given the chance to win a rotation spot out of spring training, that may not happen but he will get the call by the all star break without a doubt. Gammons also talked the other day about the Yankees being a virtual lock to sign Daisuke Matsuzaka amnd how it is already well known. He is 26 from Japan throws mid 90s and has dominating stuff, probably the best pitcher to come out of Japan ever. As far as trading Alex, if they could get a decent package out of Anaheim ( and I do not consider Santana and Brandon Wood a decent package) they should do it simply because he can be replaced in free agency by Aramis Ramirez.   I think Hughes will be a backup plan if someone gets injured or is ineffective. Cashamn has said he's targeting a mid season call up, which could be as a starter or as bullpen help (like the Twins did with Santana)  I forgot about<a title="matsuzaka" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Daisuke_Matsuzaka" target="_self"> Matsuzaka</a> That's a straight $$ deal, so the Yanks should have the edge there if they want him. I expect them to overhaul the pitching staff, with the only starters remaning from this year being Wang and Johnson (if they cant move him)Have you heard his rumored cost?  If the Yankees are serious about reducing payroll, they're gonna need to dump more than what you've suggested to afford this guy and do anything else.  The scuttlebutt is that he's possibly gonna get $20 million a year.

FUNKMAN

10-08-2006, 04:45 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: <a title="Daily News says Torre's out" href="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/459629p-386756c.html" target="_self">Daily News says Torre's out</a> Sort of. THey dont give any details. FAN has been reporting this, but the article is sketchy.  doing the guy a big favor. to most baseball fans if the yankees win "they were supposed to win" due to the payroll but when they lose they look like the biggest losers in the history of the game. like i said before these guys are sulking in public but privately laughing all the way to the bank...

Bulldogcakes

10-08-2006, 04:48 AM

Mojo, what do you think of Aramis Ramirez? His #s look good, but I've never seen the guy play.BTW-THe Yanks always talk about fiscal responsibility from October-Febuary (free agent season), but the payroll ends up being the same. Plus now with them building a new ballpark they can deduct the luxury tax $$ they been spending which will save them around 32 mil per year 

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 10-8-06 @ 8:55 AM

Bulldogcakes

10-08-2006, 04:54 AM

the 20 mil per year probably includes the fee the Seibu Lions want to release his rights. I doubt it will be that high, even combined. THe highest fee ever for a Japanese player was for 13 mil for Ichiro Suzuki. I'd bet its in that range. At this point you hear the #s the agents are dreaming of, what they actually get is usually very different. I'd bet thats coming from his agent 

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 10-8-06 @ 9:01 AM

Bulldogcakes

10-08-2006, 05:19 AM

Fantasy Yankee rotation for 2007Zito WangMatsuzaka Mark Beuhrle Randy Johnson  Phillip Hughes as mid season call up if necessary  I'm not sure the Yanks love Zito, but he may be the best available pitcher. PLus George always likes taking players off a competitor's roster. Gives him bang for the buck. Mark Beuhrle is interesting to me. 3.83 career ERA, lefty fly ball pitcher, doesn't beat himself. Coming off sub par year, but still young and if he returns to form can be a top of the staff pitcher.

Bulldogcakes

10-08-2006, 05:38 AM

Bill Madden, who's always been tight with George was just on FAN. Some highlights Torre's out, needs to be done quickly because Pinella has other job offers. The organization will do "EVERYTHING POSSIBLE" to deal A-Rod Pinella isn't a factor with A-Rod, he won 116 games with the Mariners the year after he left. Back up the truck, this team will be overhauled. George was quoted as saying "Half the plyers in the clubhouse aren't even upset" about the loss. George was extremely upset about the loss, saying it was the worst he's ever seen. He wants to change the culture of the clubhouse. Whoever were the players he was referring to (one is rumored to be Damon) are in trouble, and may be dealt.<a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/15708675.htm" target="_self" title="his article">His article </a><a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/15708675.htm" target="_self" title="his article"> </a>BIG GEORGE IS BACK BABY!!! BACK UP THE TRUCK!!!!!!          

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 10-8-06 @ 9:42 AM

Tenbatsuzen

10-08-2006, 06:52 AM

Can I ask a question? What makes what happened in this series any worse than the loss to the Angels last year, or The Choke?  I KNOW it's bad.  But on the Yankee heirarchy of tragic series losses, it's #1 2001 World Series, #2 The Choke, and then it just becomes a jumbled mess.

spoon

10-08-2006, 07:07 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  whiskyriver wrote: as a diehard sox fan i so want to rub it in,but we were a 3rd place team. so i got nothing........i'm still all warm and fuzzy inside. this proves $ don't buy you wins.  Exactly. So tell everyone to stop bitching about our payroll.   Yah sure, it has nothing to do with the 162 game regular season record either.  How many straight division crowns now?  And the yanks did it the old fashion way without ~ 15 more 10 million dollar all-stars right?  Just bc the yanks fold under pressure of late and can't execute doesn't mean there is no advantage to a huge payroll.  And don't give me the small market teams in the playoffs bullshit bc if they were in the yanks division none of them would have made it to the ALDS/NLDS games.  Over the course of 162 games they just happen to be lucky enough not to be in the spank's division.  Wake up.  Also, I love how all the rumors flow exactly the way you want them to.  I think it's "yankee selective hearing".  And nice starting rotation!  What a fucking joke.  The majority of teams are trying to hold on to their players while the yanks just add anything they can.  Mistake or not, it doesn't matter bc they can go out and cover those too.  I hope Zito stays in Oakland, where he should be.  It would be nice to see the majority of players stay where they start like the yanks were able to do with Posada, Jeter, Mo, and Williams.  It's nice to have a core to build around, while other teams can't even keep the great players they develop.  Imagine the A's, Expos and many other teams if the league was set up right and they had the ability to keep it's players, let alone sign a few extra pieces.  

This message was edited by spoon on 10-8-06 @ 11:08 AM

Bulldogcakes

10-08-2006, 07:09 AM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: Can I ask a question? What makes what happened in this series any worse than the loss to the Angels last year, or The Choke? I KNOW it's bad. But on the Yankee heirarchy of tragic series losses, it's #1 2001 World Series, #2 The Choke, and then it just becomes a jumbled mess.  Because the Bosox were a good team, a bitter rival who was due to take one eventually. The Angels just seem to have the Yanks # in recent years. This team, this year was billed as the overwhelming favorite to win it all, and then they couldn't beat a team that stumbled into the playoffs and blew their division lead. "Best lineup in history" Though I agree that I thought they were just as lifeless last year vs the Angels. I'll never forget that when Jeter hit the HR in the 8th in game 4, NOBODY on the bench even got off their ass to cheer, including the manager. The thought is a team that at one time thrived on Torre's stable, calm leadership is now lifeless. Especially when faced with adversity.  <blockquote />

epo

10-08-2006, 07:20 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Fantasy Yankee rotation for 2007Zito WangMatsuzaka Mark Beuhrle Randy Johnson If you wanna know why the rest of the baseball nation hates the Yankees, I would submit this type of thinking as Exhibit A.  Keeping throwing money at a dead horse.  You need to rebuild a new core and you will continue to slide until that happens.

Bulldogcakes

10-08-2006, 07:55 AM

Beurhle has a team option, so he might not be a free agent this year. If they are committed to dealing A-Rod, then getting pitching in return will likely be what the Yanks are looking for. That brings us back to the Angels, but I suspect the Dodgers would love to have him as well. You could deal him to a team that needs either a SS or 3B, though I suspect A-Rod will insist on going back to SS, and he has a blanket no trade. He's stated he wants to stay here, but if the Yanks approached him I think he'd go for it. He doesn't want to play somewhere where he's not wanted. Cashman (who you can NEVER believe) says he's committed to keeping A-Rod, but that could simply be the bargaining position. He doesn't want to look desperate. Madden says George wants him gone, then he's gone.  There's a rumor that makes NO sense to me, A-Rod to the Marlins for Cabrera plus. Do the Marlins think they're close again (lots of people do) and will go into another spending spree? I know Cabrera had some behavior issues with Girardi, but he's gone now. Cabrera's a hell of a player, and they could market A-Rod as the "big star" face of the franchise, something they lack now. Plus I think A-Rod would feast on the weaker NL pitchers. Stay tuned. . .

spoon

10-08-2006, 08:34 AM

Wait, weaker NL pitching??  I see that the lineups aren't as tough to pitch to but just where the fuck did you come up with this "fact"?  Also, Arod as the "face" of the Marlins?  Come on BDC!  They have there two stars to build around and you just named one of them in your last post.  If Joe G. is gone, I'd take that as a sign Cabrera isn't.  The front staff had big issues with him as well bc they say he's a little nuts.  He managed the young team as well as you could on the field, but off it he was a nightmare (not that the Marlins staff is good by any means).   Welcome to the Annual Bulldogcakes List of Free Agent Pickups the Yankees Are Rumored To Be AfterThe list usually includes the following:A trade or two involving underperforming yankees for top notch young talent from small market teams.  Why?  Just bc the yanks need to move them and everyone wants a washed up shef right??Two top tier pitching free agents bc the yanks can always find room for them on the minor leauge teams and or dl (Brown, Pavano). A trade of a huge contract or two for yank players that just aren't fitting in with Jeter's frat so of course teams will be willing to part with younger talent and multiple players of this type to land a guy who's scarred for life and surely will wave a no trade clause.  And finally, a few more free agents at a position where they already have three all-star players of the past.

spoon

10-08-2006, 08:34 AM

Oh, I'll stay tuned....

johnniewalker

10-08-2006, 09:35 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Fantasy Yankee rotation for 2007Zito WangMatsuzaka Mark Beuhrle Randy Johnson Phillip Hughes as mid season call up if necessary I'm not sure the Yanks love Zito, but he may be the best available pitcher. PLus George always likes taking players off a competitor's roster. Gives him bang for the buck. Mark Beuhrle is interesting to me. 3.83 career ERA, lefty fly ball pitcher, doesn't beat himself. Coming off sub par year, but still young and if he returns to form can be a top of the staff pitcher. Matsuzaka is a good idea.  Keep the players with a huge language barrier coming. The less they can deal with the media the better.  By the way, congratulations on destroying one of the best players in the history of the game.

BLZBUBBA

10-08-2006, 09:41 AM

Get some pitching.  Whatever the cost.  You can make it to the playoffs without great pitching but you won't have success in the playoffs without it.  If this "new murder's row" nonsense is the direction the Yanks wish to continue going they won't see a World Series win anytime soon.   This isn't Earl's co-ed softball.  First base is not a beer keg.  Gotta trade some bats for some pitching.  A-rod would seem to be the #1 candidate to go.  It's just like these suckers down here with the Texas Rangers.  They've never won...big anyway.  They've never had great pitching (a staff).  They've always needed pitching...THEN THEY BREAK THE BANK SIGNING A-ROD?  Then they convince the Yanks to sign him?  When they're losing (or about to lose) CLEMENS and PETTITE they are signing A-ROD?  Frankly I expect better from the Yankees organization.  Your typical Texas Rangers fan would be content to sit there watching a team as long as there are homeruns being hit.  But Yankee fans?  No way that sort of game should draw.  It's the Yanks.  And there's a lack of chemistry as well.  I say everything should be put on the table.  THAT INCLUDES JETER. You gotta get the pitching back.  You have to build an overpowering staff and go from there.  And building a staff with so few pitchers available is going to be expensive and painful.  Maybe so painful as to have to give up Jeter.  It's simple.  Good fielders who can hit are a lot easier to find than great pitchers.  And it takes great pitching to win a world series.  If you have great pitching you don't need great hitting.  You don't even need "great" fielding.

spoon

10-08-2006, 10:12 AM

<hr color="cococo" align="left">BLZBUBBA wrote: Get some pitching.ÿ Whatever the cost.ÿ You can make it to the playoffs withoutÿgreat pitching but you won't have success in the playoffs without it.ÿ If this "new murder's row" nonsense is the direction the Yanks wish to continue going they won't see a World Series win anytime soon.ÿÿ This isn't Earl's co-ed softball.ÿ First base is not a beer keg.ÿ Gotta trade some bats for some pitching.ÿ A-rod would seem to be the #1 candidate to go.ÿ It's just like these suckers down here with the Texas Rangers.ÿ They've never won...big anyway.ÿ They've never had great pitching (a staff).ÿ They've always needed pitching...THEN THEY BREAK THE BANK SIGNING A-ROD?ÿ Then they convince the Yanks to sign him?ÿ When they're losing (or about to lose) CLEMENS and PETTITE they are signing A-ROD?ÿ Frankly I expect better from the Yankees organization.ÿ Your typical Texas Rangers fanÿwould be content to sit there watching a team as long as there are homeruns being hit.ÿ But Yankee fans?ÿ No way that sort of game should draw.ÿ It's the Yanks.ÿ And there's a lackÿof chemistry as well.ÿ I say everythingÿshould be put on the table.ÿ THAT INCLUDES JETER.ÿYou gotta get the pitching back.ÿ You have to buildÿan overpowering staff and go from there.ÿ And building a staff with so few pitchers available is going toÿbe expensive and painful.ÿÿMaybe so painful as toÿhave to give upÿJeter.ÿ It's simple.ÿ Good fielders who can hit are a lot easier to find than great pitchers.ÿ And it takes great pitching to win a world series.ÿ If you have great pitching you don't need great hitting.ÿ You don't even need "great" fielding.<hr color="cococo" align="left">

Kevin

10-08-2006, 11:41 AM

This team had great chemistry when Matsui and Sheffeild were out. We had high energy guys like Melky playing the game right. Then Torre goes and ruins the whole thing by putting them back in. I can understand Matsui, But not Sheffeild. DH Matsui and leave Melky in LF. And plus Melky is so much better defensively than Matsui. And i can't even count how many times Melky started a rally with a big hit during the year. And with Damon, everybody knew what they were getting when they signd him. A laid back guy that does not really care either way. He just goes out and plays. I want NO PART of Buhrle. He was just awful this year. He has logged way to many innings in his career and may have very little left. This is a guy that avged 7.5 inn a start for most of his career, That is a ton. So no id rather have Zito than Buhrle.

This message was edited by Kevin on 10-8-06 @ 4:12 PM

Tenbatsuzen

10-08-2006, 12:00 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Tenbatsuzen wrote: Can I ask a question? What makes what happened in this series any worse than the loss to the Angels last year, or The Choke? I KNOW it's bad. But on the Yankee heirarchy of tragic series losses, it's #1 2001 World Series, #2 The Choke, and then it just becomes a jumbled mess. Because the Bosox were a good team, a bitter rival who was due to take one eventually. The Angels just seem to have the Yanks # in recent years. This team, this year was billed as the overwhelming favorite to win it all, and then they couldn't beat a team that stumbled into the playoffs and blew their division lead. "Best lineup in history"      <blockquote />You're just buying into the hype.  Just because the Tigers "stumbled" into the playoffs, THEY WERE STILL A 95 WIN TEAM.  This wasn't like the Yankees got nailed by some team they outclassed in every single category. So they lost to the Royals.  Big fucking deal.  The Yankees got messed up by the Devil Rays the last week of the season. Yes, it sucks the Yankees lost.  And so what if they were overwhelmingly picked to win the post season?  This was nowhere nearly as heartwrenching or depressing as 2004 or 2001.  It just isn't.  By your logic, the fact that the Tigers "stumbled in", the Twins DISMANTLING by the A's must be suicide inducing, considering how good they were down the stretch. This loss sucks.  But it's not the apocalypose.  It just shows the door to A-Rod, Sheffield, and a few others, which is what most people wanted anyway.

johnniewalker

10-08-2006, 12:24 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: Tenbatsuzen wrote: Can I ask a question? What makes what happened in this series any worse than the loss to the Angels last year, or The Choke? I KNOW it's bad. But on the Yankee heirarchy of tragic series losses, it's #1 2001 World Series, #2 The Choke, and then it just becomes a jumbled mess. Because the Bosox were a good team, a bitter rival who was due to take one eventually. The Angels just seem to have the Yanks # in recent years. This team, this year was billed as the overwhelming favorite to win it all, and then they couldn't beat a team that stumbled into the playoffs and blew their division lead. "Best lineup in history" You're just buying into the hype. Just because the Tigers "stumbled" into the playoffs, THEY WERE STILL A 95 WIN TEAM. This wasn't like the Yankees got nailed by some team they outclassed in every single category. So they lost to the Royals. Big fucking deal. The Yankees got messed up by the Devil Rays the last week of the season. Yes, it sucks the Yankees lost. And so what if they were overwhelmiGngly picked to win the post season? This was nowhere nearly as heartwrenching or depressing as 2004 or 2001. It just isn't. By your logic, the fact that the Tigers "stumbled in", the Twins DISMANTLING by the A's must be suicide inducing, considering how good they were down the stretch. This loss sucks. But it's not the apocalypose. It just shows the door to A-Rod, Sheffield, and a few others, which is what most people wanted anyway.  Detroit won 95 in the best division in baseball.  I thought the white sox were the most complete team with the addition of thome.  Minnesota had a great year and Cleveland regressed but is still an extremely capable team.

Doctor Z

10-08-2006, 01:09 PM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2617164">Fewer Than Dozen Fans Greet Dazed Yanks In New York</a>

He wants to change the culture of the clubhouse. Whoever were the players he was referring to (one is rumored to be Damon) are in trouble, and may be dealt.
That's crazy talk. Damon exceeded expectations this year and if anything was a great addition to the clubhouse. He's not going anywhere.

This message was edited by Doctor_Z on 10-8-06 @ 5:25 PM

mdr55

10-08-2006, 01:27 PM

What do you expect. The bandwagoners jumped off the bandwagon and couldn't
get a ride to the staduim to greet their beloved Yankees. (when they
win). 

This message was edited by mdr55 on 10-8-06 @ 5:27 PM

Tenbatsuzen

10-08-2006, 01:35 PM

Bulldogcakes

10-08-2006, 01:38 PM

Doctor_Z wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2617164">Fewer Than Dozen Fans Greet Dazed Yanks In New York</a>

He wants to change the culture of the clubhouse. Whoever were the players he was referring to (one is rumored to be Damon) are in trouble, and may be dealt.
That's crazy talk. Damon exceeded expectations this year and if anything was a great addition to the clubhouse. He's not going anywhere.   I agree. I was just repeating what Madden said. They do, however have an excess of starting OFs, and the whole organization seems to love Melky. So I'd be surprised, but not shocked if it happens. They know all too well they need to revamp the pitching staff. And there's only so many guys available as free agents that are attractive options. Plus, even if they get Matsuzaka, the fucking guy hasn't thrown a single pitch in the big leagues. So he's a crapshoot.  If they plan on wheeling and dealing to get a new rotation, its possible (though I still think unlikely) you'd have to deal him. You have to give something to get something.

Bulldogcakes

10-08-2006, 01:45 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: Tenbatsuzen wrote: Can I ask a question? What makes what happened in this series any worse than the loss to the Angels last year, or The Choke? I KNOW it's bad. But on the Yankee heirarchy of tragic series losses, it's #1 2001 World Series, #2 The Choke, and then it just becomes a jumbled mess. Because the Bosox were a good team, a bitter rival who was due to take one eventually. The Angels just seem to have the Yanks # in recent years. This team, this year was billed as the overwhelming favorite to win it all, and then they couldn't beat a team that stumbled into the playoffs and blew their division lead. "Best lineup in history" You're just buying into the hype. Just because the Tigers "stumbled" into the playoffs, THEY WERE STILL A 95 WIN TEAM. This wasn't like the Yankees got nailed by some team they outclassed in every single category. So they lost to the Royals. Big fucking deal. The Yankees got messed up by the Devil Rays the last week of the season. Yes, it sucks the Yankees lost. And so what if they were overwhelmingly picked to win the post season? This was nowhere nearly as heartwrenching or depressing as 2004 or 2001. It just isn't. By your logic, the fact that the Tigers "stumbled in", the Twins DISMANTLING by the A's must be suicide inducing, considering how good they were down the stretch. This loss sucks. But it's not the apocalypose. It just shows the door to A-Rod, Sheffield, and a few others, which is what most people wanted anyway.   I'm doing no such thing. You asked why people think that, and I gave you an answer. I never said I personally believed that. The Tigers lead ALL OF BASEBALL in ERA, not easy for an AL team to do. If they go on to win it all, the notion that this is a sub par team will be totally disproven. I personally believe that Torre should have been gone last year, and said so at the time. I thought that the team didn't respond to him then, and Torre really hasn't been the same since Popeye (Zimmer) left.  <blockquote /> BTW-2001 didn't bother me one bit, as close as they were. They were bound to lose one sooner or later, and it happened in such flukey way. 2004 was another story, and that was the beginning of the end for Torre.

Doctor Z

10-08-2006, 01:48 PM

For me, 2001 still hurts more than 2003, 2004, or 2006.

Kevin

10-08-2006, 01:56 PM

Bill Madden is an idot, always was always will be. Id listen to John Madden more when it comes to baseball than him.

Doctor Z

10-08-2006, 03:38 PM

I know that I take baseball way too seriously, but godammit this fucking
hurts.

I just want it to be November.

Davios

10-08-2006, 03:46 PM

Kevin wrote: Bill Madden is an idot, always was always will be. Id listen to John Madden more when it comes to baseball than him.    You may not like Madden but he knows his stuff. Bill called e Showalter firing a day before anybody even mentioned his name. The guy has great connections, escpecially considering the fact that he is INCREDIBLY close to Stick Michael. He is also one of the VERY few journalists who George will speak to directly.

This message was edited by Davios on 10-8-06 @ 7:47 PM

Tenbatsuzen

10-08-2006, 03:53 PM

Doctor_Z wrote: For me, 2001 still hurts more than 2003, 2004, or 2006.   Agreed.  2001 was the worst.  I don't understand why anyone can't comprehend this, but again, for BDC to claim that losing in the fashion we did in 2001 "didn't affect him at all" shows that he lives on a strange, different world than most Yankee fans, a place where hearts are black as coal and people have no soul.

spoon

10-08-2006, 03:57 PM

<hr color="cococo" align="left">Bulldogcakes wrote: ÿDoctor_Z wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2617164">Fewer Than Dozen Fans Greet Dazed Yanks In New York</a>

He wants to change the culture of the clubhouse. Whoever were the players he was referring to (one is rumored to be Damon) are in trouble, and may be dealt.
That's crazy talk. Damon exceeded expectations this year and if anything was a great addition to the clubhouse. He's not going anywhere.ÿÿÿI agree. I was just repeating what Madden said. They do, however have an excess of starting OFs, and the whole organization seems to love Melky. So I'd be surprised, but not shocked if it happens. They know all too well they need to revamp the pitching staff. And there's only so many guys available as free agents that are attractive options. Plus, even if they get Matsuzaka, the fucking guy hasn't thrown a single pitch in the big leagues. So he's a crapshoot.ÿ If they plan on wheeling and dealing to get a new rotation, its possible (though I still think unlikely) you'd have to deal him. You have to give something to get something. <hr color="cococo" align="left">

Doctor Z

10-08-2006, 03:58 PM

I think that 2001 is the very reason that our quest for #27 is so fervent. It
feels like 27 was in our hands and snatched away from us... and ever since
then, things won't be right until we get it back.

Kevin

10-08-2006, 03:59 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote:  Doctor_Z wrote: For me, 2001 still hurts more than 2003, 2004, or 2006.    Agreed.  2001 was the worst.  I don't understand why anyone can't comprehend this, but again, for BDC to claim that losing in the fashion we did in 2001 "didn't affect him at all" shows that he lives on a strange, different world than most Yankee fans, a place where hearts are black as coal and people have no soul.  2001 hurt the most because of what beat us. A faggy little blooper (Torre should never have had the INF in but i digress) If we lost on a solid hit i would say eh you gotta hand it to them. But not that cheapass hit.

spoon

10-08-2006, 04:00 PM

Oooooo he talks to George!  Well I got news for you, George is also known to have full convos with plants of late so take that for what it's worth. 

This message was edited by spoon on 10-8-06 @ 8:14 PM

fleshysilo

10-08-2006, 04:12 PM

Good Bye Yankee Fans, and probally 1/3 of the over paid, pompas assed, spoiled, non-deserving, rat-bastard team

TheMojoPin

10-08-2006, 04:45 PM

OK, the ARod for Cabrera/Willis ideas need to stop.  Do you guys know ANYTHING about how the Marlins have operated?  They don't trade off players like that for guys like ARod...they trade them off for a glut of cheap, first run prospects.  They're the anti-Yankees.  Unless the Yanks are going to eat almost all of ARod's salary, he's not getting anyone off the Marlins for him.  That's only happening if it's a multi-team deal.

Bossanova

10-08-2006, 04:54 PM

I heard the Bill Madeen interview as well.  He didn't seemed thrilled to report the news.  Almost like this is the truth type tension.  And to be honest with you Yankee fans.  Torre leaving will be the best thing for your awful team.  In addition, this series should hurt more.  No other team should have beaten you in these playoffs.  Arizona at least had the pitching to scare you.

Bulldogcakes

10-08-2006, 04:58 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: For me, 2001 still hurts more than 2003, 2004, or 2006. Agreed. 2001 was the worst. I don't understand why anyone can't comprehend this, but again, for BDC to claim that losing in the fashion we did in 2001 "didn't affect him at all" shows that he lives on a strange, different world than most Yankee fans, a place where hearts are black as coal and people have no soul.  You expect to win every year? We just came off 4 out of 5, and flukey shit happens. Cant win em all. Thats just baseball. Sooner or later the bounce of the ball is going to go against you. Plus, I thought we were lucky as shit to be playing that 7th game. With Johnson and Schilling mowing us down and the last minute Brosius heroics it took to even get to that game 7. Plus it was in Az, and I'm never as confident on the road as at home. I spent 15 fucking years watching this team do squat. Winning 4 out of 5 I wasn't going to complain about anything.  <blockquote />

The Nature Boy

10-08-2006, 05:00 PM

Doctor_Z wrote: I think that 2001 is the very reason that our quest for #27 is so fervent. It feels like 27 was in our hands and snatched away from us... and ever since then, things won't be right until we get it back.  Great point my man, makes a lot of sense to me as I sort through my feelings on this crap.  Can you believe sports can tear you up so much?

Kevin

10-08-2006, 05:21 PM

fleshysilo wrote: Good Bye Yankee Fans, and probally 1/3 of the over paid, pompas assed, spoiled, non-deserving, rat-bastard team Mets shall be with us on the tee's very shortly.

mikeyboy

10-08-2006, 05:42 PM

Kevin wrote: fleshysilo wrote: Good Bye Yankee Fans, and probally 1/3 of the over paid, pompas assed, spoiled, non-deserving, rat-bastard team Mets shall be with us on the tee's very shortly.Your last bout with cockiness didn't work out so well.

newport king

10-08-2006, 06:16 PM

a top 3 of Wang Zito Santana is a good start in my mind.Fantasy Yankee rotation for 2007Zito WangMatsuzaka Mark Beuhrle Randy Johnson   This is why i detest any and all yankee fans. Because of this selfrighteous, entitled to the world, horseshit attitude. Are there any other teams in this new league the yankees will be playing in?    This team had great chemistry when Matsui and Sheffeild were out. We had high energy guys like Melky playing the game right. Then Torre goes and ruins the whole thing by putting them back in. Look, i don't know if you're a young kid, i'm assuming you're a yankee fan from about lets say, 1996. As much as i HATE joe torre and think he is a terrible in-game manager, he was in a situation where he couldn't win. yes it upset the team chemistry but say he doesn't play them and has two STARS, make no mistake, thats what they are STARS, sitting on the bench and the yankees lose he wouldn't have even been able to get on the team flight home. So to say some irresponsible shit like that is just silly. I know you're hurt but think about the spot he's in there. Whoever were the players he was referring to (one is rumored to be Damon) are in trouble, and may be dealt. yeah because theres a bunch of teams willing to pay 13 mil per for the next 3 years for an average fielding, light throwing, centerfielder. who by the way, has a PARTIAL NO TRADE CLAUSE.God damn you people crack me up.

This message was edited by newport king on 10-8-06 @ 10:17 PM

HBox

10-08-2006, 06:32 PM

spoon wrote: El Mudo wrote: about the Yankees being a virtual lock to sign Daisuke Matsuzaka amnd how it is already well known. He is 26 from Japan throws mid 90s and has dominating stuff, probably the best pitcher to come out of Japan ever I watched that guy demolish Cuba in the WBC....he is AWESOME Another example of the yankees bypassing the draft and outbidding everyone else in the league bc they have way too much power. MLB really needs to curtail international contracts and start an international draft. It's bullshit to the teams working hard with less assets and to those american born players that have to go the normal route. 

This message was edited by spoon on 10-8-06 @ 4:09 AM  This isn't a good example for an international draft. First of all some team is gonna have to pay Seibu a shit load of money just for negotiating rights with Matsuzaka since he is already under contract with a professional team. And in the case of Matsui he had become a free agent. Any fair international draft should not apply to Japanese players since they already were playing in a professional league. To make them submit to a draft and have to essentially start their careers all over again from a financial standpoint is a horrible thing to do to those players and would only serve as a huge impediment to Japanese players entering the league.

Kevin

10-08-2006, 08:17 PM

Francessa just said that Torre is def out and it will happpen within the next 48 hrs because there are a ton of teams that want Pinella and they have to move very fast.

HBox

10-08-2006, 08:24 PM

Kevin wrote: Francessa just said that Torre is def out and it will happpen within the next 48 hrs because there are a ton of teams that want Pinella and they have to move very fast.  That disappoints me. I still hope they can spin this in some way to let Torre out gracefully even if that means doing some backdoor shenanigans with Piniella guaranteeing him the job and telling him to shut up and wait it out. Torre deserves more than to be fired. I wish this news hadn't broken so soon too.

Kevin

10-08-2006, 08:30 PM

HBox wrote:  Kevin wrote: Francessa just said that Torre is def out and it will happpen within the next 48 hrs because there are a ton of teams that want Pinella and they have to move very fast.   That disappoints me. I still hope they can spin this in some way to let Torre out gracefully even if that means doing some backdoor shenanigans with Piniella guaranteeing him the job and telling him to shut up and wait it out. Torre deserves more than to be fired. I wish this news hadn't broken so soon too. I’m sorry Hbox but they do not owe Torre jack. They let him go 6 years without a title plus 3 1st rd ousters plus a historic collapse in 04. They have given him everything he was entitled to. I am grateful for his 4 world titles and wish him well in where ever he goes. But it is time for him to go. And the Yankees owe it to their team and their fans to do what is right, and if that is moving fast to secure Lou than so be it.

HBox

10-08-2006, 08:34 PM

Kevin wrote: HBox wrote: Kevin wrote: Francessa just said that Torre is def out and it will happpen within the next 48 hrs because there are a ton of teams that want Pinella and they have to move very fast. That disappoints me. I still hope they can spin this in some way to let Torre out gracefully even if that means doing some backdoor shenanigans with Piniella guaranteeing him the job and telling him to shut up and wait it out. Torre deserves more than to be fired. I wish this news hadn't broken so soon too. I’m sorry Hbox but they do not owe Torre jack. They let him go 6 years without a title plus 3 1st rd ousters plus a historic collapse in 04. They have given him everything he was entitled to. I am grateful for his 4 world titles and wish him well in where ever he goes. But it is time for him to go. And the Yankees owe it to their team and their fans to do what is right, and if that is moving fast to secure Lou than so be it.  Yeah, six years without a title. Unimaginable. Unthinkable. Unprecedented. Off with his head.

Kevin

10-08-2006, 08:36 PM

HBox wrote:  Kevin wrote: HBox wrote:  Kevin wrote: Francessa just said that Torre is def out and it will happpen within the next 48 hrs because there are a ton of teams that want Pinella and they have to move very fast.   That disappoints me. I still hope they can spin this in some way to let Torre out gracefully even if that means doing some backdoor shenanigans with Piniella guaranteeing him the job and telling him to shut up and wait it out. Torre deserves more than to be fired. I wish this news hadn't broken so soon too. I’m sorry Hbox but they do not owe Torre jack. They let him go 6 years without a title plus 3 1st rd ousters plus a historic collapse in 04. They have given him everything he was entitled to. I am grateful for his 4 world titles and wish him well in where ever he goes. But it is time for him to go. And the Yankees owe it to their team and their fans to do what is right, and if that is moving fast to secure Lou than so be it.   Yeah, six years without a title. Unimaginable. Unthinkable. Unprecedented. Off with his head. That is how it is in Yankee land Hbox Any other manager would be gone last year after they lost to the Angels. Its harsh but that is how it works in the Yankee Org.

HBox

10-08-2006, 08:46 PM

Kevin wrote: HBox wrote: Kevin wrote: HBox wrote: Kevin wrote: Francessa just said that Torre is def out and it will happpen within the next 48 hrs because there are a ton of teams that want Pinella and they have to move very fast. That disappoints me. I still hope they can spin this in some way to let Torre out gracefully even if that means doing some backdoor shenanigans with Piniella guaranteeing him the job and telling him to shut up and wait it out. Torre deserves more than to be fired. I wish this news hadn't broken so soon too. I’m sorry Hbox but they do not owe Torre jack. They let him go 6 years without a title plus 3 1st rd ousters plus a historic collapse in 04. They have given him everything he was entitled to. I am grateful for his 4 world titles and wish him well in where ever he goes. But it is time for him to go. And the Yankees owe it to their team and their fans to do what is right, and if that is moving fast to secure Lou than so be it. Yeah, six years without a title. Unimaginable. Unthinkable. Unprecedented. Off with his head. That is how it is in Yankee land Hbox Any other manager would be gone last year after they lost to the Angels. Its harsh but that is how it works in the Yankee Org.  The man managed a club to three straight World Series, and 4 in 5 years. He didn't miss the playoffs once in 11 years. He was here for the development of Jeter, Posada and Mariano. He is one of the winningest managers in club history. He doesn't deserve to be publicly fired after what he's done. Atlanta won't treat Bobby Cox like that. Hell, Detroit won't treat Leyland this way after this weekend.If you are going to claim to be the class of baseball, the best team in the world at some point you have to act like it. And that requires treating legends in your organization better than this, firing them in a fury days after losing a playoff series for the high crime of making the playoffs 11 years in a row but not winning a World Series in six years. There's a difference between setting the highest standards and being a petty, emotionless dick (Steinbrenner. not you) with no sense of an organization's own history, recent history at that.

Kevin

10-08-2006, 08:50 PM

HBox wrote:  Kevin wrote: HBox wrote:  Kevin wrote: HBox wrote:  Kevin wrote: Francessa just said that Torre is def out and it will happpen within the next 48 hrs because there are a ton of teams that want Pinella and they have to move very fast.   That disappoints me. I still hope they can spin this in some way to let Torre out gracefully even if that means doing some backdoor shenanigans with Piniella guaranteeing him the job and telling him to shut up and wait it out. Torre deserves more than to be fired. I wish this news hadn't broken so soon too. I’m sorry Hbox but they do not owe Torre jack. They let him go 6 years without a title plus 3 1st rd ousters plus a historic collapse in 04. They have given him everything he was entitled to. I am grateful for his 4 world titles and wish him well in where ever he goes. But it is time for him to go. And the Yankees owe it to their team and their fans to do what is right, and if that is moving fast to secure Lou than so be it.   Yeah, six years without a title. Unimaginable. Unthinkable. Unprecedented. Off with his head. That is how it is in Yankee land Hbox Any other manager would be gone last year after they lost to the Angels. Its harsh but that is how it works in the Yankee Org.  The man managed a club to three straight World Series, and 4 in 5 years. He didn't miss the playoffs once in 11 years. He was here for the development of Jeter, Posada and Mariano. He is one of the winningest managers in club history. He doesn't deserve to be publicly fired after what he's done. Atlanta won't treat Bobby Cox like that. Hell, Detroit won't treat Leyland this way after this weekend. If you are going to claim to be the class of baseball, the best team in the world at some point you have to act like it. And that requires treating legends in your organization better than this, firing them in a fury days after losing a playoff series for the high crime of making the playoffs 11 years in a row but not winning a World Series in six years. There's a difference between setting the highest standards and being a petty, emotionless dick (Steinbrenner. not you) with no sense of an organization's own history, recent history. Understood. But you would let the guy that you want go to another team just to not hurt someones feelings? If they can make a deal with lou and say we wait a couple weeks to announce it fine. But if they can't, they have to pull the trigger.

This message was edited by Kevin on 10-9-06 @ 12:57 AM

HBox

10-08-2006, 08:54 PM

Kevin wrote: HBox wrote: Kevin wrote: HBox wrote: Kevin wrote: HBox wrote: Kevin wrote: Francessa just said that Torre is def out and it will happpen within the next 48 hrs because there are a ton of teams that want Pinella and they have to move very fast. That disappoints me. I still hope they can spin this in some way to let Torre out gracefully even if that means doing some backdoor shenanigans with Piniella guaranteeing him the job and telling him to shut up and wait it out. Torre deserves more than to be fired. I wish this news hadn't broken so soon too. I’m sorry Hbox but they do not owe Torre jack. They let him go 6 years without a title plus 3 1st rd ousters plus a historic collapse in 04. They have given him everything he was entitled to. I am grateful for his 4 world titles and wish him well in where ever he goes. But it is time for him to go. And the Yankees owe it to their team and their fans to do what is right, and if that is moving fast to secure Lou than so be it. Yeah, six years without a title. Unimaginable. Unthinkable. Unprecedented. Off with his head. That is how it is in Yankee land Hbox Any other manager would be gone last year after they lost to the Angels. Its harsh but that is how it works in the Yankee Org. The man managed a club to three straight World Series, and 4 in 5 years. He didn't miss the playoffs once in 11 years. He was here for the development of Jeter, Posada and Mariano. He is one of the winningest managers in club history. He doesn't deserve to be publicly fired after what he's done. Atlanta won't treat Bobby Cox like that. Hell, Detroit won't treat Leyland this way after this weekend. If you are going to claim to be the class of baseball, the best team in the world at some point you have to act like it. And that requires treating legends in your organization better than this, firing them in a fury days after losing a playoff series for the high crime of making the playoffs 11 years in a row but not winning a World Series in six years. There's a difference between setting the highest standards and being a petty, emotionless dick (Steinbrenner. not you) with no sense of an organization's own history, recent history. Understood. But you would let they guy that you want go to another team just to not hurt someones feelings? If they can make a deal with lou and say we wait a couple weeks to announce it fine. But if they can't, they have to pull the trigger.  Unfortunately I agree there. But I can't see Piniella not agreeing to wait.

HBox

10-08-2006, 08:59 PM

I am not optomistic. Hopefully, I'll come across this post in October and shake my head and laugh, but I doubt it.My second post in the original 2006 Yankees thread.I'm not laughing but I've been shaking my head an awful lot.

Doctor Z

10-08-2006, 10:45 PM

Wait, whatta you mean Francesa "just" said? His show/interview with Madden
was on this morning. Has something been confirmed since then? Or are we still
going on Madden's word?

Kevin

10-08-2006, 10:54 PM

Doctor_Z wrote: Wait, whatta you mean Francesa "just" said? His show/interview with Madden was on this morning. Has something been confirmed since then? Or are we still going on Madden's word? He said that he heard from another source other than Madden that it was happening. The only way that Torre does not go is if Cashman really convinces George. And Francessa said his source said that that is a very slim possibility. And Yes it was on Miked up which was about Mid night.

This message was edited by Kevin on 10-9-06 @ 2:55 AM

Doctor Z

10-09-2006, 12:48 AM

Ahh, Miked Up. Fuck, I wish I had caught that.

spoon

10-09-2006, 02:56 AM

HBox wrote:  spoon wrote: El Mudo wrote:  about the Yankees being a virtual lock to sign Daisuke Matsuzaka amnd how it is already well known. He is 26 from Japan throws mid 90s and has dominating stuff, probably the best pitcher to come out of Japan ever   I watched that guy demolish Cuba in the WBC....he is AWESOME Another example of the yankees bypassing the draft and outbidding everyone else in the league bc they have way too much power. MLB really needs to curtail international contracts and start an international draft. It's bullshit to the teams working hard with less assets and to those american born players that have to go the normal route. This message was edited by spoon on 10-8-06 @ 4:09 AM   This isn't a good example for an international draft. First of all some team is gonna have to pay Seibu a shit load of money just for negotiating rights with Matsuzaka since he is already under contract with a professional team. And in the case of Matsui he had become a free agent. Any fair international draft should not apply to Japanese players since they already were playing in a professional league. To make them submit to a draft and have to essentially start their careers all over again from a financial standpoint is a horrible thing to do to those players and would only serve as a huge impediment to Japanese players entering the league.Not true, ready now players like the Japanese would garner a 1st round pick and even the kids who aren't ready (18 year old prospects) get paid really well while they play in the minors.  So signing a Japanese Pro teams would know going in around what it would take them to sign once drafted.  Quite simple actually.  And much more fair.

spoon

10-09-2006, 03:01 AM

Kevin wrote: HBox wrote:  Kevin wrote: Francessa just said that Torre is def out and it will happpen within the next 48 hrs because there are a ton of teams that want Pinella and they have to move very fast.   That disappoints me. I still hope they can spin this in some way to let Torre out gracefully even if that means doing some backdoor shenanigans with Piniella guaranteeing him the job and telling him to shut up and wait it out. Torre deserves more than to be fired. I wish this news hadn't broken so soon too. I’m sorry Hbox but they do not owe Torre jack. They let him go 6 years without a title plus 3 1st rd ousters plus a historic collapse in 04. They have given him everything he was entitled to. I am grateful for his 4 world titles and wish him well in where ever he goes. But it is time for him to go. And the Yankees owe it to their team and their fans to do what is right, and if that is moving fast to secure Lou than so be it. Now I hate the yanks and "their team and their fans", but talk like this makes me cringe.  What is so wrong with a classy sendoff?  If ever there was a recent manager from the yanks that did deserve it it is Torre.  Man, I can't wait until to see how you treat Lou when he sucks it up and causes hell with the team and starts getting in all out battles with george and cashman with no titles.  What does Torre have to do to earn "Kevin's" respect, win 8 out of 11 fucking years.  You're a classy guy.

spoon

10-09-2006, 03:04 AM

Kevin wrote: HBox wrote:  Kevin wrote: HBox wrote:  Kevin wrote: Francessa just said that Torre is def out and it will happpen within the next 48 hrs because there are a ton of teams that want Pinella and they have to move very fast.   That disappoints me. I still hope they can spin this in some way to let Torre out gracefully even if that means doing some backdoor shenanigans with Piniella guaranteeing him the job and telling him to shut up and wait it out. Torre deserves more than to be fired. I wish this news hadn't broken so soon too. I’m sorry Hbox but they do not owe Torre jack. They let him go 6 years without a title plus 3 1st rd ousters plus a historic collapse in 04. They have given him everything he was entitled to. I am grateful for his 4 world titles and wish him well in where ever he goes. But it is time for him to go. And the Yankees owe it to their team and their fans to do what is right, and if that is moving fast to secure Lou than so be it.   Yeah, six years without a title. Unimaginable. Unthinkable. Unprecedented. Off with his head. That is how it is in Yankee land Hbox Any other manager would be gone last year after they lost to the Angels. Its harsh but that is how it works in the Yankee Org.And I absolutely love this almighty yankee org/land talk.  I guess the rest of the league deals with shit one way while the yankee stable does it the right way!!  Give me a break.  I long for the days before Torre when that ass george fired 6 managers in 7 years bc they didn't put a pinch runner in or said something he didn't like to a reporter.  I hope you go right back to how it used to work in the yankee org.  You guys are hilarious.  "Most teams don't like to win, but here in yankee land we demand it!"

spoon

10-09-2006, 03:09 AM

At least Lou is showing some class by claiming through his agent that neither of them spoke at all to the yankee yet and wouldn't in respect to Torre until there is an opening.  Now if the fucking yanks and george could just learn to keep this shit out of the press Torre could have announced he felt it was time to step away from the game.  Nobody will believe that shit now. 

crb1

10-09-2006, 04:02 AM

spoon wrote: At least Lou is showing some class by claiming through his agent that neither of them spoke at all to the yankee yet and wouldn't in respect to Torre until there is an opening.  Now if the fucking yanks and george could just learn to keep this shit out of the press Torre could have announced he felt it was time to step away from the game.  Nobody will believe that shit now.  Unfortunately, I think the stuff is getting to the press intentionally.  The Yankees front office (I mean Steinbrenner's cronies and not Cashman) is notorious for leaking information on purpose.  Firing Torre is a great move, since he is responsible for the bloated $200 million payroll the past few years.  It's all his fault that the people in Tampa decided to get one old, overpaid player after another to cover up for the lack of performance from the last over-priced, over-aged free agent. If Steinbrenner wants to fire someone, he should start in Tampa where all of the people in favor of getting these old sacks of crap reside.  This team looked like what it was, I think.  A collection of old, rich players that didn't give a shit if they won (with a few exceptions).  As for A-Rod, I actually think they will look into trading him, although I'm not sure if they actually pull the trigger.  He has been unfairly targeted as the reason for the team's failure by the fans and press, and I'm not sure he can ever recover from it.  

This message was edited by crb1 on 10-9-06 @ 8:04 AM

crb1

10-09-2006, 04:15 AM

spoon wrote: And I absolutely love this almighty yankee org/land talk.  I guess the rest of the league deals with shit one way while the yankee stable does it the right way!!  Give me a break.  I long for the days before Torre when that ass george fired 6 managers in 7 years bc they didn't put a pinch runner in or said something he didn't like to a reporter.  I hope you go right back to how it used to work in the yankee org.  You guys are hilarious.  "Most teams don't like to win, but here in yankee land we demand it!"I've actually been wondering if this is going to be Steinbrenner's way of saying he's still in charge no matter what.  I think the guy should be more concerned about having regular bowel movements at this point, since the team will be fine without him.  But I think he may want to fire Torre to make some kind of asinine point.

crb1

10-09-2006, 04:20 AM

Doctor_Z wrote: For me, 2001 still hurts more than 2003, 2004, or 2006. 1995 still hurt the most for me.  It was the first year I ever saw the Yankees in the playoffs (they were a joke of a team when I first started following them), and I had to watch the strike kill them in '94 and god-damned cross-eyed Edgar Martinez kill them in '95.   2001 was bad, but they had just won three in a row, so I was still pretty impressed with how they played and battled through that series.  Favorite Yankee teams since I've been following the team:  1993 (when they really began to look like a contender) and 1996 (for obvious reasons).

Kevin

10-09-2006, 08:03 AM

spoon wrote: That is how it is in Yankee land Hbox Any other manager would be gone last year after they lost to the Angels. Its harsh but that is how it works in the Yankee Org.And I absolutely love this almighty yankee org/land talk.  I guess the rest of the league deals with shit one way while the yankee stable does it the right way!!  Give me a break.  I long for the days before Torre when that ass george fired 6 managers in 7 years bc they didn't put a pinch runner in or said something he didn't like to a reporter.  I hope you go right back to how it used to work in the yankee org.  You guys are hilarious.  "Most teams don't like to win, but here in yankee land we demand it!"Now I hate the yanks and "their team and their fans", but talk like this makes me cringe.  What is so wrong with a classy sendoff?  If ever there was a recent manager from the yanks that did deserve it it is Torre.  Man, I can't wait until to see how you treat Lou when he sucks it up and causes hell with the team and starts getting in all out battles with george and cashman with no titles.  What does Torre have to do to earn "Kevin's" respect, win 8 out of 11 fucking years.  You're a classy guy.I am not saying its right, but that is how it is in Yankee land. According to Yankee standers (again not saying it is right) Torre has gotten more respect than any other manager would have. And if you do not believe that the Yankees do things different than any other sports team in the world than your either stupid, high, or absolutely delusional. And like i said, if you could do what Hbox said and make a deal with Pinella and he can wait a few weeks, then fine, if they can't, they have to pull the trigger. They have a team to run and they can't let the guy that they want go because they feel the need to be classy, besides the guy is getting 7mil to go away. I do respect what he is done but he has run  his course here and it is time for a change.

This message was edited by Kevin on 10-9-06 @ 12:12 PM

lleeder

10-09-2006, 04:13 PM

crb1 wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: For me, 2001 still hurts more than 2003, 2004, or 2006. 1995 still hurt the most for me.  It was the first year I ever saw the Yankees in the playoffs (they were a joke of a team when I first started following them), and I had to watch the strike kill them in '94 and god-damned cross-eyed Edgar Martinez kill them in '95.   2001 was bad, but they had just won three in a row, so I was still pretty impressed with how they played and battled through that series.  Favorite Yankee teams since I've been following the team:  1993 (when they really began to look like a contender) and 1996 (for obvious reasons).After feeling like it was definate in 2001, 2003, and 2004 and being let down I didn't fully believe the yankees would win this year. I can't have that we're gonna go all the way feeling until I see this team beat a "real team" in the playoffs. I thought that team was the Mets this year and the Yanks couldn't even get to them. I guess it was the Tigers.

Bulldogcakes

10-09-2006, 05:48 PM

crb1 wrote:Unfortunately, I think the stuff is getting to the press intentionally. The Yankees front office (I mean Steinbrenner's cronies and not Cashman) is notorious for leaking information on purpose.  Just like in politics, I think they all act as "sources" from time to time to push their agenda. Cashman does it, Torre does it, they all do. If anything, George is on the recievung end of most of this, since he's the boss he's the one who they're trying to convince. Firing Torre is a great move, since he is responsible for the
bloated $200 million payroll the past few years. It's all his fault
that the people in Tampa decided to get one old, overpaid player after
another to cover up for the lack of performance from the last
over-priced, over-aged free agent. If Steinbrenner wants to
fire someone, he should start in Tampa where all of the people in favor
of getting these old sacks of crap reside. This team looked
like what it was, I think. A collection of old, rich players that
didn't give a shit if they won (with a few exceptions).Not fair. You cant give Torre credit for all the divisions and World Series rings and then when things go bad say its not his fault. Make up your mind. He either gets no credit and no blame or he gets credit when they win and blamed when they lose. I gave him credit for the titles, and now give him blame for the 3-9 playoff record in the last 3 years.    
As for
A-Rod, I actually think they will look into trading him, although I'm
not sure if they actually pull the trigger. He has been unfairly
targeted as the reason for the team's failure by the fans and press,
and I'm not sure he can ever recover from it. 
  Its tricky. He has to agree to it. So the # of teams will be limited. Also the free agent market can impact the # of teams that will bid on him, and how desperate they'll be. I'd bet it happens sometime in January, after the free agents are mostly sorted out. I dont think its totally unfair to blame a guy who was hitting below .100 in the playoffs and is supposed to be one of the best players in baseball. The fans got on him early, which was unfair, and he went to pieces both at the plate and in the field. I dont blame the press either, they just reported what he was saying. And sometimes he was his own worst enemy.    <blockquote />

HBox

10-09-2006, 06:22 PM

spoon wrote: HBox wrote: spoon wrote: El Mudo wrote: about the Yankees being a virtual lock to sign Daisuke Matsuzaka amnd how it is already well known. He is 26 from Japan throws mid 90s and has dominating stuff, probably the best pitcher to come out of Japan ever I watched that guy demolish Cuba in the WBC....he is AWESOME Another example of the yankees bypassing the draft and outbidding everyone else in the league bc they have way too much power. MLB really needs to curtail international contracts and start an international draft. It's bullshit to the teams working hard with less assets and to those american born players that have to go the normal route. This message was edited by spoon on 10-8-06 @ 4:09 AM This isn't a good example for an international draft. First of all some team is gonna have to pay Seibu a shit load of money just for negotiating rights with Matsuzaka since he is already under contract with a professional team. And in the case of Matsui he had become a free agent. Any fair international draft should not apply to Japanese players since they already were playing in a professional league. To make them submit to a draft and have to essentially start their careers all over again from a financial standpoint is a horrible thing to do to those players and would only serve as a huge impediment to Japanese players entering the league.Not true, ready now players like the Japanese would garner a 1st round pick and even the kids who aren't ready (18 year old prospects) get paid really well while they play in the minors. So signing a Japanese Pro teams would know going in around what it would take them to sign once drafted. Quite simple actually. And much more fair.  First of all, how would an international draft apply to players like Matsuzaka? He's not a free agent. Someone is going to have to pay the Seibu Lions a posting fee for Matsuzaka. Would MLB have to do that? Would they pass that on to the team who drafts him? That wouldn't be fair either. Teams like the Royals and Twins wouldn't be able to draft him them. Most teams wouldn't be able to.Or are we just going to wait until the Japanese players are free agents? It takes 10 years in the pros in Japan to earn free agency. MLB would be getting players who are, at best, on the end side of their prime. And why would these players sacrifice the freedom they played 10 years to earn? They choose to go to MLB and could end up anywhere. And they would not get paid what they are worth, that just is not going to happen when one MLB team has exclusive rights to the player.All this would do is end the flow of Japanese players coming here. And it is anything but fair to the Japanese player, especially the ones who has already earned free agency.

HBox

10-09-2006, 06:32 PM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2618683" target="_blank">Gary Sheffield speaks on Joe Torre's lineup shuffling:</a>"We were worrying about all of that stuff, and we still had a game to
play. If I'm on the other side, and all of a sudden they're putting
Rodriguez eighth and putting me or Jason on the bench, you wonder
what's going on. Those guys [the Tigers] were asking me about it. I
think it boosted their morale. It gave them confidence they didn't
have," Sheffield told the newspaper.
"[Tigers manager] Jim Leyland took advantage of that. He can
make you believe anything. He can put a fire under your belt like you
never had before in your life.

"Not to make excuses, but we didn't have that."

mikeyboy

10-09-2006, 06:44 PM

HBox wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2618683" target="_blank">Gary Sheffield speaks on Joe Torre's lineup shuffling:</a> "We were worrying about all of that stuff, and we still had a game to play. If I'm on the other side, and all of a sudden they're putting Rodriguez eighth and putting me or Jason on the bench, you wonder what's going on. Those guys [the Tigers] were asking me about it. I think it boosted their morale. It gave them confidence they didn't have," Sheffield told the newspaper.  "[Tigers manager] Jim Leyland took advantage of that. He can make you believe anything. He can put a fire under your belt like you never had before in your life. "Not to make excuses, but we didn't have that."  It sounds like Sheff is selling Torre out in an attempt to make excuses for his own performance.

spoon

10-09-2006, 06:54 PM

Funny thing is he started out this convo by saying he can't believe the yankee brass were even thinking of replacing Torre only to change his tune that very interview.  Shef is a fucking train wreck, and a horrible friend as it seems like he was originally trying to speak up for Torre.  So much for that.

spoon

10-09-2006, 06:59 PM

As for the international player discussion H, I don't think it's MLB's resposibility to look out for players over there.  It should be to look at the best interest of this league and it's players.  Sure, attracting international tallent is part of that.  Yet the playing field isn't exactly fair as it is, and teams drafting would know what they were getting into.  At least then they could trade the early pick they couldn't afford (this player for example) to the yanks, boston, LA or any other team (highest bidder with the highest need which could afford the extra cost) and get something out of it.  And your idea of the league paying for the exchange isn't half bad.  I think you meant it as a joke, but this would help even the playing field in a huge way.  Bottom line is things need to change less for my favorite team, but more so for the even less fortunate teams that have great tradition/history in this league who are now subjected to cellar dwellers year in and year out. 

zildjian361

10-09-2006, 07:10 PM

Spoon lets combine your guys wth our guys and win this thing next year.<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/wink.gif" border="0" />

HBox

10-09-2006, 07:13 PM

spoon wrote: As for the international player discussion H, I don't think it's MLB's resposibility to look out for players over there. It should be to look at the best interest of this league and it's players. Sure, attracting international tallent is part of that. Yet the playing field isn't exactly fair as it is, and teams drafting would know what they were getting into. At least then they could trade the early pick they couldn't afford (this player for example) to the yanks, boston, LA or any other team (highest bidder with the highest need which could afford the extra cost) and get something out of it. And your idea of the league paying for the exchange isn't half bad. I think you meant it as a joke, but this would help even the playing field in a huge way. Bottom line is things need to change less for my favorite team, but more so for the even less fortunate teams that have great tradition/history in this league who are now subjected to cellar dwellers year in and year out.   It's in MLB's interest to broaden its appeal worldwide and to do that it has to treat the Japanese players right. It has to make it worth it to come here and making them essentially start their whole career over again won't do that at all. Guys like Ichiro and Matsui would not come here at all if they can make essentially the same kind of money at home and won't have to sacrifice the free agency they already earned.I'm only talking about an exception to a theoretical international draft that would affect the 2 to 3 players that come over from Japan a year. It's not a huge deal. And if you are worried about the big teams just outspending everyone else then subjecting Japanese players to a draft is a band aid on a shotgun blast to the face and will only end up stopping Japanese players from coming over here at all. And that would not be helpful to anybody.

johnniewalker

10-09-2006, 07:18 PM

mikeyboy wrote: HBox wrote: <a target="_blank" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2618683">Gary Sheffield speaks on Joe Torre's lineup shuffling:</a> "We were worrying about all of that stuff, and we still had a game to play. If I'm on the other side, and all of a sudden they're putting Rodriguez eighth and putting me or Jason on the bench, you wonder what's going on. Those guys [the Tigers] were asking me about it. I think it boosted their morale. It gave them confidence they didn't have," Sheffield told the newspaper. "[Tigers manager] Jim Leyland took advantage of that. He can make you believe anything. He can put a fire under your belt like you never had before in your life. "Not to make excuses, but we didn't have that." It sounds like Sheff is selling Torre out in an attempt to make excuses for his own performance. I think you missed his last quote.  He's not making excuses other than the ones he's making.  Wait, huh?

Kevin

10-09-2006, 07:27 PM

I am so tierd of Sheffeild. George should fing blame himself for signing this joker when the rest of the team wanted to sign Vlad. But no he wanted to sign him because he is from Tampa.

spoon

10-09-2006, 07:43 PM

Wait Kev, I guess you talk to everyone in the yank clubhouse and to the top brass daily huh?  How can you prove this at all?  You can't so stop making things up after the fact that make it look like you knew the results that would come out of it. And H it isn't a bandaid, it's a start bc it would apply to all international players and it isn't 2-3 a yaer from Japan, let alone the whole Latino baseball world.  

This message was edited by spoon on 10-10-06 @ 12:12 AM

HBox

10-09-2006, 07:50 PM

spoon wrote: Wait, I guess you talk to everyone in the yank clubhouse and to the top brass daily huh? How can you prove this at all? You can't so stop making things up after the fact that make it look like you knew the results that would come out of it. And H it isn't a bandaid, it's a start bc it would apply to all international players and it isn't 2-3 a yaer from Japan, let alone the whole Latino baseball world.   I was only talking about exempting players from the Japanese leagues from an international draft, not anywhere else. And there are only 10 Japanese players in the majors right now so I don't see how there is any more than a couple of players coming in every year.

spoon

10-09-2006, 08:12 PM

HBox wrote:  spoon wrote: Wait, I guess you talk to everyone in the yank clubhouse and to the top brass daily huh? How can you prove this at all? You can't so stop making things up after the fact that make it look like you knew the results that would come out of it. And H it isn't a bandaid, it's a start bc it would apply to all international players and it isn't 2-3 a yaer from Japan, let alone the whole Latino baseball world.   I was only talking about exempting players from the Japanese leagues from an international draft, not anywhere else. And there are only 10 Japanese players in the majors right now so I don't see how there is any more than a couple of players coming in every year. You sure on that stat?  And there are a ton down in the minors yet to make the MLB team.  Yet your point is taken.

spoon

10-09-2006, 08:15 PM

Steve Summers on the FAN is cracking me up right now ripping the yanks.  He started his show playing songs with Loser (ie Beck and Three Doors Down) while playing yankee highlights from the playoffs.  Now he's ripping King George for never taking one bit of blame when they fuck up.  Great point as everyone here believes he has the power.

Kevin

10-09-2006, 08:25 PM

spoon wrote: Wait, I guess you talk to everyone in the yank clubhouse and to the top brass daily huh?  How can you prove this at all?  You can't so stop making things up after the fact that make it look like you knew the results that would come out of it. And H it isn't a bandaid, it's a start bc it would apply to all international players and it isn't 2-3 a yaer from Japan, let alone the whole Latino baseball world.  First of all Spoon i do not make shit up. I follow and give a shit about my team and only my team. You should do the same and worry about you awful Blue Jays and hope they do not sign another 500 pitcher for 11 mil perf or FIVE YEARS. It was said on Mike and The Mad Dog that Cashman had a deal with Vlad 80% done when George stepped in and said he wanted to sign Sheff. So do some fucking research before you say anything about anybody. What ever i say is about my team and I get it from places that usually have good sources. And once again worry about your team and stop being a closet Yankee fan, because nobody but a fan of a team should be paying this much attention to a team.<a href="http://pinstripepride.mlblogs.com/my_thoughts_on_the_yankee/2005/11/index.html" target="_self">Gary Sheffield- Sheffield had another great season in a Yankee uniform in 2005.   That being said, Sheffield will be paid $13 million in 2006, the last year of his contract.   He has expressed his desire to get an extension signed, but the Yankees don't appear to be interested.   Sheffield would never have been a Yankee if Brian Cashman had more power, since Cashman preferred Vladimir Guerrero.   Now that Cashman has more of a say, it's likely Sheffield won't be back beyond 2006.   The problem with dealing Sheffield is that he's stated he will make like miserable for the team that acquires him.   Any team is going to be hesitant to take a chance on a guy like that.   But, if the team can work out an extension with Sheffield, he might agree to the deal.   The Yankees will listen to offers, but there are a lot of obstacles to any potential deal.</a>  So please Spoon Do you research before you make your bias comments on this page.

This message was edited by Kevin on 10-10-06 @ 12:30 AM

Doctor Z

10-09-2006, 08:26 PM

Steve Somers is one of the biggest hacks in the sports radio business.
You
know that as well as anyone. He is a bigger Yankee hater than he is a Mets
fan and NO ONE likes him. Not even Met fans. (Or should I say,
METROPOLITAN fans! HAhaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! He says
"Metropolitans" instead of just "Mets"! WahahAHAHA! OH MY GOD! THIS
GUY'S A RIOT! <img width="133" height="60" border="0" src="http://homepage.mac.com/assbasket/.Pictures/jumping.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh" /> ) Anyhow, I have the solution for the
2007 Yankees. Throw all your complicated jargon out the window... The
solution can be stated in TWO words: FELIX HEREDIA. 





This message was edited by Doctor_Z on 10-10-06 @ 1:01 AM

Marc with a c

10-09-2006, 08:54 PM

Kevin wrote: You should do the same and worry about you awful Blue Jays and hope they do not sign another 500 pitcher for 11 mil perf or FIVE YEARS.  kevin- you're right about the sheffield thing, but i wouldn't start getting on other teams for spending money on .500 pitchers.

spoon

10-09-2006, 09:00 PM

Kevin wrote: spoon wrote: Wait, I guess you talk to everyone in the yank clubhouse and to the top brass daily huh?  How can you prove this at all?  You can't so stop making things up after the fact that make it look like you knew the results that would come out of it. And H it isn't a bandaid, it's a start bc it would apply to all international players and it isn't 2-3 a yaer from Japan, let alone the whole Latino baseball world.  First of all Spoon i do not make shit up. I follow and give a shit about my team and only my team. You should do the same and worry about you awful Blue Jays and hope they do not sign another 500 pitcher for 11 mil perf or FIVE YEARS. It was said on Mike and The Mad Dog that Cashman had a deal with Vlad 80% done when George stepped in and said he wanted to sign Sheff. So do some fucking research before you say anything about anybody. What ever i say is about my team and I get it from places that usually have good sources. And once again worry about your team and stop being a closet Yankee fan, because nobody but a fan of a team should be paying this much attention to a team.<a href="http://pinstripepride.mlblogs.com/my_thoughts_on_the_yankee/2005/11/index.html" target="_self">Gary Sheffield- Sheffield had another great season in a Yankee uniform in 2005.   That being said, Sheffield will be paid $13 million in 2006, the last year of his contract.   He has expressed his desire to get an extension signed, but the Yankees don't appear to be interested.   Sheffield would never have been a Yankee if Brian Cashman had more power, since Cashman preferred Vladimir Guerrero.   Now that Cashman has more of a say, it's likely Sheffield won't be back beyond 2006.   The problem with dealing Sheffield is that he's stated he will make like miserable for the team that acquires him.   Any team is going to be hesitant to take a chance on a guy like that.   But, if the team can work out an extension with Sheffield, he might agree to the deal.   The Yankees will listen to offers, but there are a lot of obstacles to any potential deal.</a>  So please Spoon Do you research before you make your bias comments on this page. This message was edited by Kevin on 10-10-06 @ 12:30 AM You're fucking hilarious!!  You quote New York sports radio as your proof source!!!  That's a riot!  Oh and that blog you posted proves it beyond any doubt!!  Get a grip buddy.  And you're right I'm not like you, I love baseball as a whole so I don't just follow my team, but the other teams especially the playoffs.  Your so myopic, but I guess that's how it's done in "yankee-land"!!  Ha!  As for the pitching signing, that .500 pitcher still managed 10 wins missing half the season and was signed for 5 years for a reason.  The Jays also have to pay a little more being that the Canadian dollar isn't worth as much as the US dollar (better of late though) and bc they are just getting a core together since they lost a ton of great players in the last 5 years (Delgado, Capenter and a million more).  Now they can only hope to hold on to Wells, Lilly and Catalanotto in order to actually build on last year.  Building a team from the ground up, something the yanks need to start thinking about.  So please, do some "real" research before you spout off your bias.  Seriously, your out of your mind.  Time for George to take some heat bc he sucked as an owner before the true advent of free agency hit.  Remember the 80's???

spoon

10-09-2006, 09:02 PM

And Somers is the man!  If he's not funny, then let's take a look at your screen name a little.

Kevin

10-09-2006, 09:03 PM

spoon wrote: Kevin wrote: [quote]spoon wrote: Wait, I guess you talk to everyone in the yank clubhouse and to the top brass daily huh?  How can you prove this at all?  You can't so stop making things up after the fact that make it look like you knew the results that would come out of it. And H it isn't a bandaid, it's a start bc it would apply to all international players and it isn't 2-3 a yaer from Japan, let alone the whole Latino baseball world.  First of all Spoon i do not make shit up. I follow and give a shit about my team and only my team. You should do the same and worry about you awful Blue Jays and hope they do not sign another 500 pitcher for 11 mil perf or FIVE YEARS. It was said on Mike and The Mad Dog that Cashman had a deal with Vlad 80% done when George stepped in and said he wanted to sign Sheff. So do some fucking research before you say anything about anybody. What ever i say is about my team and I get it from places that usually have good sources. And once again worry about your team and stop being a closet Yankee fan, because nobody but a fan of a team should be paying this much attention to a team.<a href="http://pinstripepride.mlblogs.com/my_thoughts_on_the_yankee/2005/11/index.html" target="_self">Gary Sheffield- Sheffield had another great season in a Yankee uniform in 2005.   That being said, Sheffield will be paid $13 million in 2006, the last year of his contract.   He has expressed his desire to get an extension signed, but the Yankees don't appear to be interested.   Sheffield would never have been a Yankee if Brian Cashman had more power, since Cashman preferred Vladimir Guerrero.   Now that Cashman has more of a say, it's likely Sheffield won't be back beyond 2006.   The problem with dealing Sheffield is that he's stated he will make like miserable for the team that acquires him.   Any team is going to be hesitant to take a chance on a guy like that.   But, if the team can work out an extension with Sheffield, he might agree to the deal.   The Yankees will listen to offers, but there are a lot of obstacles to any potential deal.</a>  So please Spoon Do you research before you make your bias comments on this page. This message was edited by Kevin on 10-10-06 @ 12:30 AM You're fucking hilarious!!  You quote New York sports radio as your proof source!!!  That's a riot!  Oh and that blog you posted proves it beyond any doubt!!  Get a grip buddy.  And you're right I'm not like you, I love baseball as a whole so I don't just follow my team, but the other teams especially the playoffs.  Your so myopic, but I guess that's how it's done in "yankee-land"!!  Ha!  As for the pitching signing, that .500 pitcher still managed 10 wins missing half the season and was signed for 5 years for a reason.  The Jays also have to pay a little more being that the Canadian dollar isn't worth as much as the US dollar (better of late though) and bc they are just getting a core together since they lost a ton of great players in the last 5 years (Delgado, Capenter and a million more).  Now they can only hope to hold on to Wells, Lilly and Catalanotto in order to actually build on last year.  Building a team from the ground up, something the yanks need to start thinking about.  So please, do some "real" research before you spout off your bias.  Seriously, your out of your mind.  Time for George to take some heat bc he sucked as an owner before the true advent of free agency hit.&n

Kevin

10-09-2006, 09:06 PM

And its like Snoogans says You never say you are wrong. Your competive with everything I can bring Brian Cashman to your house and you would say that he is wrong and does not know what he is talking about, so why even bother arguing with you.

spoon

10-09-2006, 09:07 PM

10 wins in his first year.  How many did Weaver get with the yanks in total?  How about Brown last year?  Or Pavano for the last two?  Shut the fuck up and make a valid point once!

Kevin

10-09-2006, 09:08 PM

So please, do some "real" research before you spout off your bias.  Seriously, your out of your mind.  Time for George to take some heat bc he sucked as an owner before the true advent of free agency hit.  Remember the 80's???Remember the 90's and 2000? he has won 6 titles since taking over in 72. Everyone has a dry spot.

Kevin

10-09-2006, 09:09 PM

spoon wrote: 10 wins in his first year.  How many did Weaver get with the yanks in total?  How about Brown last year?  Or Pavano for the last two?  Shut the fuck up and make a valid point once! THATS A MILLION FOR EVERY FUCKING WIN FOR CHRIST SAKE. THATS NOT GOOD. Jesus Christ. And i never said Pavano was a good signing. But at least he had a huge year 18-8 before we signd him Burnett was a huge Bust for Fla.

This message was edited by Kevin on 10-10-06 @ 1:11 AM

spoon

10-09-2006, 09:09 PM

Kevin wrote: And its like Snoogans says You never say you are wrong. Your competive with everything I can bring Brian Cashman to your house and you would say that he is wrong and does not know what he is talking about, so why even bother arguing with you. Ahhh, are we going to get all gay about it now.  Don't cry Kevin, the yankees will buy half the free-agents on the market this year to make it all better.  Now stop crying and give me a fact!  You didn't prove shit, so you're feelings aren't translating into fact no matter how many times you type them.  Hold on, I have a lawsuit on Wednesday and I just found something on a blog that'll help my case.  Gotta go!

spoon

10-09-2006, 09:10 PM

Kevin wrote:  So please, do some "real" research before you spout off your bias.  Seriously, your out of your mind.  Time for George to take some heat bc he sucked as an owner before the true advent of free agency hit.  Remember the 80's???Remember the 90's and 2000? he has won 6 titles since taking over in 72. Everyone has a dry spot.Yah, his is between his ears.  Let the dementia begin.  Then again it's always been there.

spoon

10-09-2006, 09:12 PM

Kevin wrote: spoon wrote: 10 wins in his first year.  How many did Weaver get with the yanks in total?  How about Brown last year?  Or Pavano for the last two?  Shut the fuck up and make a valid point once! THATS A MILLION FOR EVERY FUCKING WIN FOR CHRIST SAKE. THATS NOT GOOD. Jesus Christ.So then, what amount did it cost the yanks per win for the pitchers and more I just listed?  Come on math wizard!

spoon

10-09-2006, 09:15 PM

Oh and just so you know, here's his salary for 2006:<table width="100%" border="0"><tr><td class="tablexlrg bi">#34 A.J. Burnett | SP</td><td> </td><td align="right">Roster: Select Player J. Accardo R. Adams K. Barker A. Burnett F. Catalanotto G. Chacin S. Downs J. Frasor T. Glaus R. Halladay J. Hattig A. Hill R. Johnson B. League T. Lilly A. Lind S. Marcum J. McDonald D. McGowan B. Molina L. Overbay J. Phillips A. Rios D. Romero F. Rosario B. Ryan J. Speier B. Tallet J. Towers P. Walker V. Wells G. Zaun </td></tr></table><table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="600" border="0"><tr class="tablesm" valign="top"><td align="center"><img alt="" src="http://espn-ak.starwave.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6314.jpg" border="0" /></td><td><div>Proper Name: Allan James Burnett</div><div>Born: January 3, 1977 <div>North Little Rock, AR</div></div><div>Height: 6-4</div><div>Weight: 230 lbs.</div><div>Age: 29</div><div>Pronounced: N/A</div></td><td><div>Bats: Right</div><div>Throws: Right</div><div>Pos: SP</div><div>Experience: 7 years</div><div>2006 Salary: $2,200,000</div><div>College: N/A</div></td><td><div class="bi">FANTASY</div><div class="bi">Percent Owned (Week +/-):</div><div>MLB: 80.6% (-15.2%)</div><div>AL Only: 82.1% (-14.7%)</div><div class="bi">Avg. Draft Position:</div><div>MLB: 120.6</div><div>AL Only: 63.6</div></td></tr></table> That's right, he made just over $200,000 per win.  Another great point buddy.  Keep'em coming!  It's a common practice to backend a contract so that if you're not in the race and things don't go as planned you can trade the contract to the yanks.

Kevin

10-09-2006, 09:17 PM

spoon wrote: Kevin wrote: spoon wrote: 10 wins in his first year.  How many did Weaver get with the yanks in total?  How about Brown last year?  Or Pavano for the last two?  Shut the fuck up and make a valid point once! THATS A MILLION FOR EVERY FUCKING WIN FOR CHRIST SAKE. THATS NOT GOOD. Jesus Christ.So then, what amount did it cost the yanks per win for the pitchers and more I just listed?  Come on math wizard!  Once again i never said Pavano was a good signing But unlike your team we could afford that. If Burnett is a bust for you that decimates you team because that is a HUGE chunk of you payroll.  Shit i mean even WE did not want to take a shot on Burnett and we sign every pitcher that shows any promise. And if you had a court case you would go into the court and tell everyone that they are wrong and you are right and walk out. You would not bring anything else.

Kevin

10-09-2006, 09:19 PM

spoon wrote: Oh and just so you know, here's his salary for 2006:<table width="100%" border="0"><tr><td class="tablexlrg bi">#34 A.J. Burnett | SP</td><td> </td><td align="right">Roster: Select Player J. Accardo R. Adams K. Barker A. Burnett F. Catalanotto G. Chacin S. Downs J. Frasor T. Glaus R. Halladay J. Hattig A. Hill R. Johnson B. League T. Lilly A. Lind S. Marcum J. McDonald D. McGowan B. Molina L. Overbay J. Phillips A. Rios D. Romero F. Rosario B. Ryan J. Speier B. Tallet J. Towers P. Walker V. Wells G. Zaun </td></tr></table><table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="600" border="0"><tr class="tablesm" valign="top"><td align="center"><img alt="" src="http://espn-ak.starwave.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6314.jpg" border="0" /></td><td>*>Proper Name: Allan James Burnett <div />*>Born: January 3, 1977 *>North Little Rock, AR <div /><div />*>Height: 6-4 <div />*>Weight: 230 lbs. <div />*>Age: 29 <div />*>Pronounced: N/A <div /></td><td>*>Bats: Right <div />*>Throws: Right <div />*>Pos: SP <div />*>Experience: 7 years <div />*>2006 Salary: $2,200,000 <div />*>College: N/A <div /></td><td>* class="bi">FANTASY <div />* class="bi">Percent Owned (Week +/-): <div />*>MLB: 80.6% (-15.2%) <div />*>AL Only: 82.1% (-14.7%) <div />* class="bi">Avg. Draft Position: <div />*>MLB: 120.6 <div />*>AL Only: 63.6 <div /></td></tr></table> That's right, he made just over $200,000 per win.  Another great point buddy.  Keep'em coming!  It's a common practice to backend a contract so that if you're not in the race and things don't go as planned you can trade the contract to the yanks.  His avg Salary is 11 mil when the contract is done. So they are going to have to pay the piper sometime, so it is still 1mil per win.

spoon

10-09-2006, 09:20 PM

And I'd take that move for AJ again in a heartbeat.  They signed him knowing Arnsberg would need to get him back to the form when they were together in Florida.  Now do the math for me on this because it just doesn't compute:<table width="100%" border="0"><tr><td class="tablexlrg bi">#45 Carl Pavano | SP</td><td> </td><td align="right">Roster: Select Player B. Abreu B. Bruney M. Cabrera M. Cairo R. Cano J. Damon K. Farnsworth S. Fasano J. Giambi D. Jeter R. Johnson C. Lidle H. Matsui M. Mussina M. Myers C. Pavano A. Phillips J. Posada S. Proctor M. Rivera A. Rodriguez G. Sheffield T. Sturtze R. Villone C. Wang B. Williams J. Wright </td></tr></table><table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="584" border="0"><tr class="tablesm" valign="top"><td align="center"><img alt="" src="http://espn-ak.starwave.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/5945.jpg" border="0" /></td><td><div>Proper Name: Carl Anthony Pavano</div><div>Born: January 8, 1976 <div>New Britain, CT</div></div><div>Height: 6-5</div><div>Weight: 241 lbs.</div><div>Age: 30</div><div>Pronounced: pa-VAH-no</div></td><td><div>Bats: Right</div><div>Throws: Right</div><div>Pos: SP</div><div>Experience: 8 years</div><div>2006 Salary: $8,000,000</div><div>College: N/A</div></td><td><div class="bi">FANTASY</div><div class="bi">Percent Owned (Week +/-):</div><div>MLB: 1.3% (0.0%)</div><div>AL Only: 16.8% (+1.1%)</div><div class="bi">Avg. Draft Position:</div><div>MLB: 231.7</div><div>AL Only: 181.7</div></td></tr></table>  How much is that per win?  And what about last year?  No other team could bury this horrible move, so continue to mock Blue Jay moves.  Perhaps Overbay was a bad move too, or BJ Ryan.  I think JP has dominated Cashman since he's been here with a lot less freedom and money.  Now let's do Weaver and Brown.

Kevin

10-09-2006, 09:22 PM

spoon wrote: And I'd take that move for AJ again in a heartbeat.  They signed him knowing Arnsberg would need to get him back to the form when they were together in Florida.  Now do the math for me on this because it just doesn't compute:<table width="100%" border="0"><tr><td class="tablexlrg bi">#45 Carl Pavano | SP</td><td> </td><td align="right">Roster: Select Player B. Abreu B. Bruney M. Cabrera M. Cairo R. Cano J. Damon K. Farnsworth S. Fasano J. Giambi D. Jeter R. Johnson C. Lidle H. Matsui M. Mussina M. Myers C. Pavano A. Phillips J. Posada S. Proctor M. Rivera A. Rodriguez G. Sheffield T. Sturtze R. Villone C. Wang B. Williams J. Wright </td></tr></table><table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="584" border="0"><tr class="tablesm" valign="top"><td align="center"><img alt="" src="http://espn-ak.starwave.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/5945.jpg" border="0" /></td><td>*>Proper Name: Carl Anthony Pavano <div />*>Born: January 8, 1976 *>New Britain, CT <div /><div />*>Height: 6-5 <div />*>Weight: 241 lbs. <div />*>Age: 30 <div />*>Pronounced: pa-VAH-no <div /></td><td>*>Bats: Right <div />*>Throws: Right <div />*>Pos: SP <div />*>Experience: 8 years <div />*>2006 Salary: $8,000,000 <div />*>College: N/A <div /></td><td>* class="bi">FANTASY <div />* class="bi">Percent Owned (Week +/-): <div />*>MLB: 1.3% (0.0%) <div />*>AL Only: 16.8% (+1.1%) <div />* class="bi">Avg. Draft Position: <div />*>MLB: 231.7 <div />*>AL Only: 181.7 <div /></td></tr></table>  How much is that per win?  And what about last year?  No other team could bury this horrible move, so continue to mock Blue Jay moves.  Perhaps Overbay was a bad move too, or BJ Ryan.  I think JP has dominated Cashman since he's been here with a lot less freedom and money.  Now let's do Weaver and Brown.I never said Pavano was a good signing so stop grasping and BJ Ryan is overpaid. No closer should be making 9mil that is not named Mariano Rivera

Kevin

10-09-2006, 09:23 PM

Burnett has all the tallent in the World but does not have the stamina nor the make up to be a huge pitcher.

spoon

10-09-2006, 09:26 PM

Kevin wrote: spoon wrote: And I'd take that move for AJ again in a heartbeat.  They signed him knowing Arnsberg would need to get him back to the form when they were together in Florida.  Now do the math for me on this because it just doesn't compute:<table width="100%" border="0"><tr><td class="tablexlrg bi">#45 Carl Pavano | SP</td><td> </td><td align="right">Roster: Select Player B. Abreu B. Bruney M. Cabrera M. Cairo R. Cano J. Damon K. Farnsworth S. Fasano J. Giambi D. Jeter R. Johnson C. Lidle H. Matsui M. Mussina M. Myers C. Pavano A. Phillips J. Posada S. Proctor M. Rivera A. Rodriguez G. Sheffield T. Sturtze R. Villone C. Wang B. Williams J. Wright </td></tr></table><table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="584" border="0"><tr class="tablesm" valign="top"><td align="center"><img alt="" src="http://espn-ak.starwave.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/5945.jpg" border="0" /></td><td>*>Proper Name: Carl Anthony Pavano * />*>Born: January 8, 1976 *>New Britain, CT * />* />*>Height: 6-5 * />*>Weight: 241 lbs. * />*>Age: 30 * />*>Pronounced: pa-VAH-no * /></td><td>*>Bats: Right * />*>Throws: Right * />*>Pos: SP * />*>Experience: 8 years * />*>2006 Salary: $8,000,000 * />*>College: N/A * /></td><td>* class="bi">FANTASY * />* class="bi">Percent Owned (Week +/-): * />*>MLB: 1.3% (0.0%) * />*>AL Only: 16.8% (+1.1%) * />* class="bi">Avg. Draft Position: * />*>MLB: 231.7 * />*>AL Only: 181.7 * /></td></tr></table>  How much is that per win?  And what about last year?  No other team could bury this horrible move, so continue to mock Blue Jay moves.  Perhaps Overbay was a bad move too, or BJ Ryan.  I think JP has dominated Cashman since he's been here with a lot less freedom and money.  Now let's do Weaver and Brown.I never said Pavano was a good signing so stop grasping and BJ Ryan is overpaid. No closer should be making 9mil that is not named Mariano RiveraThanks for making my points over and over again.  You can't talk baseball with 80% of yankee fans bc they always have "inside" info and know shit about the leauge outside of who they want to sign to hide more bad moves.  AJ has been a good move in my mind.  If you want to rip the Jays go after the Gord Ash era, and deals like the Mike Sirotka move.  But you wouldn't have a clue about stuff like that, it doesn't involve the yankees and why bother paying attention to anything else.

spoon

10-09-2006, 09:30 PM

Kevin wrote: Burnett has all the tallent in the World but does not have the stamina nor the make up to be a huge pitcher. He had two complete games in only 21 starts (one shutout).  That's 10% of his games he went the full 9 after an injury.  What are you talking about with the stamina?  Even with some pitch count limited starts at the beggining of this year, he averages 6.5 innings per start.  Also he's learning from Halladay so don't you worry about him, he'll be stomping overpaid yankees all next year and many more.

Kevin

10-09-2006, 09:30 PM

spoon wrote: Kevin wrote: spoon wrote: And I'd take that move for AJ again in a heartbeat.  They signed him knowing Arnsberg would need to get him back to the form when they were together in Florida.  Now do the math for me on this because it just doesn't compute:<table width="100%" border="0"><tr><td class="tablexlrg bi">#45 Carl Pavano | SP</td><td> </td><td align="right">Roster: Select Player B. Abreu B. Bruney M. Cabrera M. Cairo R. Cano J. Damon K. Farnsworth S. Fasano J. Giambi D. Jeter R. Johnson C. Lidle H. Matsui M. Mussina M. Myers C. Pavano A. Phillips J. Posada S. Proctor M. Rivera A. Rodriguez G. Sheffield T. Sturtze R. Villone C. Wang B. Williams J. Wright </td></tr></table><table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="584" border="0"><tr class="tablesm" valign="top"><td align="center"><img alt="" src="http://espn-ak.starwave.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/5945.jpg" border="0" /></td><td>*>Proper Name: Carl Anthony Pavano * />*>Born: January 8, 1976 *>New Britain, CT * />* />*>Height: 6-5 * />*>Weight: 241 lbs. * />*>Age: 30 * />*>Pronounced: pa-VAH-no * /></td><td>*>Bats: Right * />*>Throws: Right * />*>Pos: SP * />*>Experience: 8 years * />*>2006 Salary: $8,000,000 * />*>College: N/A * /></td><td>* class="bi">FANTASY * />* class="bi">Percent Owned (Week +/-): * />*>MLB: 1.3% (0.0%) * />*>AL Only: 16.8% (+1.1%) * />* class="bi">Avg. Draft Position: * />*>MLB: 231.7 * />*>AL Only: 181.7 * /></td></tr></table>  How much is that per win?  And what about last year?  No other team could bury this horrible move, so continue to mock Blue Jay moves.  Perhaps Overbay was a bad move too, or BJ Ryan.  I think JP has dominated Cashman since he's been here with a lot less freedom and money.  Now let's do Weaver and Brown.I never said Pavano was a good signing so stop grasping and BJ Ryan is overpaid. No closer should be making 9mil that is not named Mariano RiveraThanks for making my points over and over again.  You can't talk baseball with 80% of yankee fans bc they always have "inside" info and know shit about the leauge outside of who they want to sign to hide more bad moves.  AJ has been a good move in my mind.  If you want to rip the Jays go after the Gord Ash era, and deals like the Mike Sirotka move.  But you wouldn't have a clue about stuff like that, it doesn't involve the yankees and why bother paying attention to anything else.  Same point every time Yankee fans this that blah blah blah, broken record. And i do remember Gord Ash he was an awful GM. Unless its your Job to follow teams around, You follow your team. Who has the f-ing time to devote all these teams. I worry about what my  team is doing and that is it.

Kevin

10-09-2006, 09:32 PM

spoon wrote: Kevin wrote: Burnett has all the tallent in the World but does not have the stamina nor the make up to be a huge pitcher. He had two complete games in only 21 starts (one shutout).  That's 10% of his games he went the full 9 after an injury.  What are you talking about with the stamina?  Even with some pitch count limited starts at the beggining of this year, he averages 6.5 innings per start.  Also he's learning from Halladay so don't you worry about him, he'll be stomping overpaid yankees all next year and many more.He won't be on the mound to stomp on anyone. He invented the DL, That is who Pavano is learned from.

HBox

10-09-2006, 09:32 PM

spoon wrote: HBox wrote: spoon wrote: Wait, I guess you talk to everyone in the yank clubhouse and to the top brass daily huh? How can you prove this at all? You can't so stop making things up after the fact that make it look like you knew the results that would come out of it. And H it isn't a bandaid, it's a start bc it would apply to all international players and it isn't 2-3 a yaer from Japan, let alone the whole Latino baseball world. I was only talking about exempting players from the Japanese leagues from an international draft, not anywhere else. And there are only 10 Japanese players in the majors right now so I don't see how there is any more than a couple of players coming in every year. You sure on that stat? And there are a ton down in the minors yet to make the MLB team. Yet your point is taken.  <a href="http://japaneseballplayers.com/en/" target="_blank">According to this site there are 10 in the majors and 9 in the minors. </a>

johnniewalker

10-09-2006, 09:43 PM

HBox wrote: spoon wrote: HBox wrote: spoon wrote: Wait, I guess you talk to everyone in the yank clubhouse and to the top brass daily huh? How can you prove this at all? You can't so stop making things up after the fact that make it look like you knew the results that would come out of it. And H it isn't a bandaid, it's a start bc it would apply to all international players and it isn't 2-3 a yaer from Japan, let alone the whole Latino baseball world. I was only talking about exempting players from the Japanese leagues from an international draft, not anywhere else. And there are only 10 Japanese players in the majors right now so I don't see how there is any more than a couple of players coming in every year. You sure on that stat? And there are a ton down in the minors yet to make the MLB team. Yet your point is taken. <a href="http://japaneseballplayers.com/en/" target="_blank">According to this site there are 10 in the majors and 9 in the minors. </a>   

This message was edited by johnniewalker on 10-10-06 @ 1:43 AM

spoon

10-09-2006, 10:17 PM

Nice find on the site H, but do they list everyone? 

HBox

10-09-2006, 10:36 PM

spoon wrote: Nice find on the site H, but do they list everyone?   I think so. It's the only listing I could find. I imagine there could be more in the minor leagues but the site seems failry thorough, if not fully updated.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_players_from_Japan_in_Major_League_Basebal l" target="_blank">This is a list of all the players who have played in Japan and MLB. Since there is only 30 on the lsit and it includes Americans and Japanese players no longer in MLB I think its accurate.</a>

spoon

10-09-2006, 10:43 PM

Now let's see the list for Dominicans!

HBox

10-09-2006, 10:57 PM

spoon wrote: Now let's see the list for Dominicans!  No way. We'll break teh internets!

spoon

10-10-2006, 12:00 AM

Ahhhh, come on papi!

Doctor Z

10-10-2006, 12:54 AM

FELIX. HEREDIA.

A.J.

10-10-2006, 03:44 AM

Kevin wrote: Bill Madden is an idot, always was always will be. Id listen to John Madden more when it comes to baseball than him. What about Dave Madden?<img height="131" src="http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/733/thumbs/part8.jpg" width="184" border="0" />

crb1

10-10-2006, 03:56 AM

spoon wrote:  The Jays also have to pay a little more being that the Canadian dollar isn't worth as much as the US dollar (better of late though) and bc they are just getting a core together since they lost a ton of great players in the last 5 years (Delgado, Capenter and a million more).  Now they can only hope to hold on to Wells, Lilly and Catalanotto in order to actually build on last year.  Building a team from the ground up, something the yanks need to start thinking about.  Think they'll be able to keep Wells?  A lot of writers have their doubts, but I think he stays.  Lilly is an FA this year though, correct?  If so, he will probably go as he seems to be hitting the market at the perfect time.  There's not a lot out there after Zito and Schmidt, so I think Lilly is set up to get a much bigger deal in terms of dollars (and possibly years) than he may be worth.  A couple other pitchers are in the same situation (e.g. Randy Wolf).

crb1

10-10-2006, 04:07 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  Not fair. You cant give Torre credit for all the divisions and World Series rings and then when things go bad say its not his fault. Make up your mind. He either gets no credit and no blame or he gets credit when they win and blamed when they lose. I gave him credit for the titles, and now give him blame for the 3-9 playoff record in the last 3 years.      As for A-Rod, I actually think they will look into trading him, although I'm not sure if they actually pull the trigger. He has been unfairly targeted as the reason for the team's failure by the fans and press, and I'm not sure he can ever recover from it.   Its tricky. He has to agree to it. So the # of teams will be limited. Also the free agent market can impact the # of teams that will bid on him, and how desperate they'll be. I'd bet it happens sometime in January, after the free agents are mostly sorted out. I dont think its totally unfair to blame a guy who was hitting below .100 in the playoffs and is supposed to be one of the best players in baseball. The fans got on him early, which was unfair, and he went to pieces both at the plate and in the field. I dont blame the press either, they just reported what he was saying. And sometimes he was his own worst enemy.   I don't give Torre all the credit for all of their championships.  His key role is managing egos and dealing with the press.  He should get credit and blame, but I'm not sure he deserves to get the axe for the team losing.  There was an almost complete lack of performance from everyone on the team, which I don't think is Torre's fault.  The market for A-Rod will be strong.  Think of it this way, you can pay Carlos Lee $75 million over 5 years or A-Rod $64 over 4 years (Texas pays the rest).  There may only be a few teams, but the Yankees should be able to get some good young players in return.  You can blame him, but I didn't see Jeter knocking the cover off the ball after game 1, or Giambi, or Abreu, or Sheffield, or Matsui, etc.  How is it that A-Rod takes the heat and all the other high-priced no shows get a pass?

A.J.

10-10-2006, 04:11 AM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/061009&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos1" target="_self">Trade Jeter, not A-Rod</a>?

Kevin

10-10-2006, 08:45 AM

A.J. wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/061009&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos1" target="_self">Trade Jeter, not A-Rod</a>? That is just espnesn being shock jocks again.

A.J.

10-10-2006, 08:49 AM

Interesting argument though.

HBox

10-10-2006, 09:15 AM

So Joe Torre is coming back. Great. Trade A-Rod and all the problems will magically go away. Wonderful. I'm sure Scott Proctor and Brian Bruney are thrilled. 

This message was edited by HBox on 10-10-06 @ 1:16 PM

Kevin

10-10-2006, 09:28 AM

Eh i do not know what to think. I started feeling bad for him when all of this started happening. The players really went to bat for him. I guess with the right moves and more sp we will be ok with him as the manager, we shall see.

Kevin

10-10-2006, 09:42 AM

Ok. it is now time for Jeter to start being the captain and take Arod under his wing and do what he did for Giambi. He went to bat for Giambi both in the press and privately when he was struggling. He needs to stop holding that sports ill article grudge and do what is best for the team. You can not get market value for Arod right now and you can not give him away. So its time for Jeter to step up and make an effort, because Arod is very sensitive to his fault but that is how it is and you can not change that. A captain makes sure everyone in his crew is on the same page, and Jeter is not doing it right now.

HBox

10-10-2006, 09:49 AM

The thing is if you don't fire Torre and you don't trade A-Rod, what serious changes can you make?I think this means that A-Rod is definitely gone.

Kevin

10-10-2006, 09:53 AM

HBox wrote: The thing is if you don't fire Torre and you don't trade A-Rod, what serious changes can you make? I think this means that A-Rod is definitely gone. SP. You sign Zito and that Japanese Pitcher. a little pen help and a 1st baseman so Giambi could DH full time, and that is all you need, you do not need to make Drastic changes to this team. You can not get as much as you need to get for a player of his stature, and you can not give him away.

Kevin

10-10-2006, 10:03 AM

They also need to do something for Melky to be the LF next year because Matsui is an awful fielder. I don't know how that could happen though. 

This message was edited by Kevin on 10-10-06 @ 2:03 PM

crb1

10-10-2006, 10:07 AM

HBox wrote: The thing is if you don't fire Torre and you don't trade A-Rod, what serious changes can you make? I think this means that A-Rod is definitely gone. That's probably the best solution for both parties at this point.  Trade him for some young pitching, and it would be nice if they could snag a decent young catcher too (not sure of catching prospects though).  Start rebuilding a younger team to replace all of the old over-priced players once their contracts are up.

crb1

10-10-2006, 10:09 AM

Kevin wrote: They also need to do something for Melky to be the LF next year because Matsui is an awful fielder. I don't know how that could happen though.  I'd like to see Melky play more too, but I think he'll get most of his playing time as a rotating 4th OF/partial DH spelling Giambi, Matsui, Damon, and Abreu.

Kevin

10-10-2006, 12:07 PM

I just heard that the Japanese guy can not pitch in the majors until next year. They could bid on his services this year but can not pitch until 08. Is there any truth to that?

Doctor Z

10-10-2006, 12:45 PM

George must've had a change of heart when he realized he is gonna die soon and doens't wanna be remembered for firing Torre as the last thing he did.

Jujubees2

10-10-2006, 01:13 PM

Not that I think he deserved to get fired but you have to remember that Torre's career coaching record before the Yankees wasn't great (894-1003).  Did he all of a sudden become a great manager the day he became the skipper for the Yanks?  Granted, he has to manage some huge egos but me thinks the largest payroll in baseball had something to do with his success in pinstripes.  Lou Pinella showed in Tampa that even a good manager can't win without talent.

HBox

10-10-2006, 01:13 PM

Kevin wrote: I just heard that the Japanese guy can not pitch in the majors until next year. They could bid on his services this year but can not pitch until 08. Is there any truth to that?  he would not normally be eligible for free agency until next year. But his team announced they will let him go to MLB next year. The thing is that there is a blind auction going on or will go on. A team will ahve to pay a posting fee to the Seibu lions. They could, if they wanted, reject the posting fee if the blind auction produces a price they deem too low. But that probably won't happen.But if a team wins the auction and pays the posting fee they then have 30 days to negotiate a contract. But here's the thing. The value of the contract over the first 3 years must equal the posting fee. So basically whatever contract you think Matsuzaka will get will actually cost the team twice that, at least.If something breaks down along the way he can't come into MLB until he earns free agency in 2008. But if someone pays the posting fee and reaches a contract agreement with him he's here next year.

Kevin

10-10-2006, 02:32 PM

HBox wrote:  Kevin wrote: I just heard that the Japanese guy can not pitch in the majors until next year. They could bid on his services this year but can not pitch until 08. Is there any truth to that?   he would not normally be eligible for free agency until next year. But his team announced they will let him go to MLB next year. The thing is that there is a blind auction going on or will go on. A team will ahve to pay a posting fee to the Seibu lions. They could, if they wanted, reject the posting fee if the blind auction produces a price they deem too low. But that probably won't happen. But if a team wins the auction and pays the posting fee they then have 30 days to negotiate a contract. But here's the thing. The value of the contract over the first 3 years must equal the posting fee. So basically whatever contract you think Matsuzaka will get will actually cost the team twice that, at least.If something breaks down along the way he can't come into MLB until he earns free agency in 2008. But if someone pays the posting fee and reaches a contract agreement with him he's here next year. So what your saying is that he is going to basicaly be our 3rd starter next year?

Bulldogcakes

10-10-2006, 02:43 PM

HBox wrote: The thing is if you don't fire Torre and you don't trade A-Rod, what serious changes can you make?I think this means that A-Rod is definitely gone.  Exactly. The "definition of insanity" is to do the same thing over and over and to expect a different result. I heard Cashman on Kay's show today and (I dont believe a word of this) but he says he has no intention  of trading A-Rod, Randy Johnson WILL HAVE BACK SURGERY and HE EXPECTS HIM TO PITCH NEXT YEAR around May or June. Well, what the fuck are you exactly going to do then? Torre stays, they re-sign Mussina, keep Johnson, maybe sign Zito? Dont EVEN MENTION Pavano, if you want to have a serious discussion. We keep A-Rod, so its basically the same team, plus Zito. Thats it? You cant be fucking serious. That will win us another early exit next year, and then Torre will finally get the ax he deserved 2 years ago. He better have more than that under the Christmas tree if he wants people to renew their season tickets. Especially after the Mets go to/win the World Series. Maybe the best thing that could happen to Yankee fans would be a Mets title. That will drive George nuts, and get some action.  <blockquote />

Bulldogcakes

10-10-2006, 02:50 PM

crb1 wrote:The market for A-Rod will be strong. Dont be so sure. People aren't blind you know.<a href="http://www.prosportsdaily.com/mlb/yankees/rumors.html" target="_self" title="Read some">Read some</a> of the out of state sportswriters in LA and Chicago, etc. VERY mixed opions on getting him. Contenders will have reservations about his post season failures, since they're close they may not feel he puts them over the top. Bad teams may figure "who cares about the post season, just let him help me GET THERE". But A-Rod has a no trade clause and likely wont want to go to a bad team. Very tricky. I think it will happen, but around December or January when many free agents are signed and the teams that still have needs will get serious about bidding for him. I'd be surprised if someone made a pre emptive strike with a big offer early. Especially with other premier sluggers available like Sheffield, Soriano, Tejada, and the annual Manny Ramirez dangling by the Bosox.   

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 10-10-06 @ 7:01 PM

spoon

10-10-2006, 02:51 PM

Kevin wrote: Ok. it is now time for Jeter to start being the captain and take Arod under his wing and do what he did for Giambi. He went to bat for Giambi both in the press and privately when he was struggling. He needs to stop holding that sports ill article grudge and do what is best for the team. You can not get market value for Arod right now and you can not give him away. So its time for Jeter to step up and make an effort, because Arod is very sensitive to his fault but that is how it is and you can not change that. A captain makes sure everyone in his crew is on the same page, and Jeter is not doing it right now. Wow, you almost stole that word for word from espn huh?  Does the phrase original thought ever creep into your life?

johnniewalker

10-10-2006, 02:55 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: HBox wrote: The thing is if you don't fire Torre and you don't trade A-Rod, what serious changes can you make?I think this means that A-Rod is definitely gone. Exactly. The "definition of insanity" is to do the same thing over and over and to expect a different result. I heard Cashman on Kay's show today and (I dont believe a word of this) but he says he has no intention of trading A-Rod, Randy Johnson WILL HAVE BACK SURGERY and HE EXPECTS HIM TO PITCH NEXT YEAR around May or June. Well, what the fuck are you exactly going to do then? Torre stays, they re-sign Mussina, keep Johnson, maybe sign Zito? Dont EVEN MENTION Pavano, if you want to have a serious discussion. We keep A-Rod, so its basically the same team, plus Zito. Thats it? You cant be fucking serious. That will win us another early exit next year, and then Torre will finally get the ax he deserved 2 years ago. He better have more than that under the Christmas tree if he wants people to renew their season tickets. Especially after the Mets go to/win the World Series. Maybe the best thing that could happen to Yankee fans would be a Mets title. That will drive George nuts, and get some action.  What about oft injured Jason Schmidt.  This guy seems right up the Yankees alley.

Kevin

10-10-2006, 02:56 PM

johnniewalker wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote:  HBox wrote: The thing is if you don't fire Torre and you don't trade A-Rod, what serious changes can you make?I think this means that A-Rod is definitely gone.  Exactly. The "definition of insanity" is to do the same thing over and over and to expect a different result. I heard Cashman on Kay's show today and (I dont believe a word of this) but he says he has no intention of trading A-Rod, Randy Johnson WILL HAVE BACK SURGERY and HE EXPECTS HIM TO PITCH NEXT YEAR around May or June. Well, what the fuck are you exactly going to do then? Torre stays, they re-sign Mussina, keep Johnson, maybe sign Zito? Dont EVEN MENTION Pavano, if you want to have a serious discussion. We keep A-Rod, so its basically the same team, plus Zito. Thats it? You cant be fucking serious. That will win us another early exit next year, and then Torre will finally get the ax he deserved 2 years ago. He better have more than that under the Christmas tree if he wants people to renew their season tickets. Especially after the Mets go to/win the World Series. Maybe the best thing that could happen to Yankee fans would be a Mets title. That will drive George nuts, and get some action.   What about oft injured Jason Schmidt.  This guy seems right up the Yankees alley.  If we want another done old pitcher we would re sign Mussina.

spoon

10-10-2006, 02:57 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  HBox wrote: The thing is if you don't fire Torre and you don't trade A-Rod, what serious changes can you make?I think this means that A-Rod is definitely gone.  Exactly. The "definition of insanity" is to do the same thing over and over and to expect a different result. I heard Cashman on Kay's show today and (I dont believe a word of this) but he says he has no intention  of trading A-Rod, Randy Johnson WILL HAVE BACK SURGERY and HE EXPECTS HIM TO PITCH NEXT YEAR around May or June. Well, what the fuck are you exactly going to do then? Torre stays, they re-sign Mussina, keep Johnson, maybe sign Zito? Dont EVEN MENTION Pavano, if you want to have a serious discussion. We keep A-Rod, so its basically the same team, plus Zito. Thats it? You cant be fucking serious. That will win us another early exit next year, and then Torre will finally get the ax he deserved 2 years ago. He better have more than that under the Christmas tree if he wants people to renew their season tickets. Especially after the Mets go to/win the World Series. Maybe the best thing that could happen to Yankee fans would be a Mets title. That will drive George nuts, and get some action.   First off, George has always been nuts and get some action??  Are you fucking serious?  If anything the yanks should cut the free agent spending sprees and look to building this team a different way.  Renew your tickets bc you just had fucking 11 straight playoff seasons, some teams haven't sniffed them in more then that amount of time.  Fucking A!

spoon

10-10-2006, 03:01 PM

Sorry BDC, Sheff isn't a premier hitter any longer.  He's old as dirt, supposedly off the roids/clear (hence tarnished in that fashion), and a clubhouse cancer.  His fielding is even worse then before as well so don't even think he's a huge piece out there for most teams.  Sure someone will sign him to a one or two year contract, but even two years is nuts to me. 

Bulldogcakes

10-10-2006, 03:17 PM

<h1><a title="Twins pick up $12 million option on Hunter for '07" target="_self" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2620341">Twins pick up $12 million option on Hunter for '07</a> </h1> Surprising for the usually frugal Twins. Why post this in the Yankee thread? Its good news for us. The fewer free agents OFs available, the more likely the Yanks can do that long rumored sign and trade with Sheffield. I dont think he bring back much, especially with his option at 13 mil per. But anything's better than just letting him walk for nothing. Plus you never know with seemingly minor deals. When the Yanks shipped off Robin Ventura (who they had nowhere to play at the time) they got back (the then unknowns) Bubba Crosby and Scott Proctor.    

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 10-10-06 @ 7:19 PM

Kevin

10-10-2006, 03:21 PM

spoon wrote: Sorry BDC, Sheff isn't a premier hitter any longer.  He's old as dirt, supposedly off the roids/clear (hence tarnished in that fashion), and a clubhouse cancer.  His fielding is even worse then before as well so don't even think he's a huge piece out there for most teams.  Sure someone will sign him to a one or two year contract, but even two years is nuts to me.  Agreed there. And everyone is on Arod but just like him this Joker has disapeared in 2 straight playoffs now. He has not hit a lick since gm 3 of the 04 ALCS.

Bulldogcakes

10-10-2006, 03:26 PM

Kevin wrote: He has not hit a lick since gm 3 of the 04 ALCS. <table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" class="tablehead"><tr align="right" class="evenrow"><td align="left">2005</td>
<td align="left">NYY</td>
<td>Games 154</td>
<td>ABs 584</td>
<td>Runs 104</td>
<td>Hits 170</td>
<td>2B 27</td>
<td>3b 0</td>
<td>HR 34</td>
<td>RBIs 123</td>
<td>BB 78</td>
<td>SO 76</td>
<td>SB 10</td>
<td>CS 2</td>
<td>AVG .291</td>
<td>OBP .379</td>
<td>SLG .512</td>
<td>OPS .891</td></tr></table>  Obviously he was injured this year, so the question will be did he show enough when he came back to make people think he can still produce? It will also depend on the marketplace. Magglio Ordonez got 10 mil per from the Tigers a few years back having two bad kness and having not played for a year.   

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 10-10-06 @ 7:29 PM

Kevin

10-10-2006, 03:30 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  Kevin wrote: He has not hit a lick since gm 3 of the 04 ALCS.   <table class="tablehead" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0"><tr class="evenrow" align="right"><td align="left">2005</td><td align="left">NYY</td><td>Games 154</td><td>ABs 584</td><td>Runs 104</td><td>Hits 170</td><td>2B 27</td><td>3b 0</td><td>HR 34</td><td>RBIs 123</td><td>BB 78</td><td>SO 76</td><td>SB 10</td><td>CS 2</td><td>AVG .291</td><td>OBP .379</td><td>SLG .512</td><td>OPS .891</td></tr></table>  Obviously he was injured this year, so the question will be did he show enough when he came back to make people think he can still produce? It will also depend on the marketplace. Magglio Ordonez got 10 mil per from the Tigers a few years back having two bad kness and having not played for a year.   This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 10-10-06 @ 7:29 PM Im talking about post season

Bulldogcakes

10-10-2006, 03:32 PM

Kevin wrote: spoon wrote: Sorry BDC, Sheff isn't a premier hitter any longer.  Agreed there.   Im talking about post season     Gee, how'd I ever miss that?

HBox

10-10-2006, 03:33 PM

Kevin wrote: HBox wrote: Kevin wrote: I just heard that the Japanese guy can not pitch in the majors until next year. They could bid on his services this year but can not pitch until 08. Is there any truth to that? he would not normally be eligible for free agency until next year. But his team announced they will let him go to MLB next year. The thing is that there is a blind auction going on or will go on. A team will ahve to pay a posting fee to the Seibu lions. They could, if they wanted, reject the posting fee if the blind auction produces a price they deem too low. But that probably won't happen. But if a team wins the auction and pays the posting fee they then have 30 days to negotiate a contract. But here's the thing. The value of the contract over the first 3 years must equal the posting fee. So basically whatever contract you think Matsuzaka will get will actually cost the team twice that, at least.If something breaks down along the way he can't come into MLB until he earns free agency in 2008. But if someone pays the posting fee and reaches a contract agreement with him he's here next year. So what your saying is that he is going to basicaly be our 3rd starter next year?  What I'm saying is that if the Yanks do get him, and they pay the posting fee which has been rumored to be as high as $25 million, and they sign him which is rumored to cost as high as $12-15 million a year then the Yanks just may be signing a pitcher who has never pitched in the majors to the equivalent of a 3 year, 70 million dollar contract.So the Yanks better be fucking sure about this guy and he better be better than a #3.

Kevin

10-10-2006, 03:34 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  Kevin wrote: spoon wrote: Sorry BDC, Sheff isn't a premier hitter any longer.  Agreed there.    Im talking about post season        Gee, how'd I ever miss that? Agreed there. And everyone is on Arod but just like him this Joker has disapeared in 2 straight playoffs now. He has not hit a lick since gm 3 of the 04 ALCS.

Doctor Z

10-10-2006, 03:35 PM

The Twins picking up Hunter's option is also good for the Yankees because there were rumors of Boston making a move at him.

spoon

10-10-2006, 03:37 PM

He's going to be 38 and is a cancer on any team.  Since the Cowboys and Raiders play in the NFL, I doubt many teams will be after him at 13mil, if any, like BDC thinks.  The yanks would be stupid to take that option.  The Hunter deal however will set a standard for Wells as he stated recently that a fair-market deal is all he is after, and the Jays stated they have no problem with that and would love to resign him up to 15 million a year.  They're both great (gold glove) outfielders with power and leadership.  I just hope he stays bc I've read he really wants to play back home in Texas with his great friend (best man at his wedding) Michael Young.  My dream, and it won't happen I know, is that the Jays kill two birds with one stone by resigning Wells and filling the middle infield need by making a move to get Young.  One can dream baby, one can dream.

Bulldogcakes

10-10-2006, 03:38 PM

HBox wrote:What I'm saying is that if the Yanks do get him, and they pay the posting fee which has been rumored to be as high as $25 million, and they sign him which is rumored to cost as high as $12-15 million a year then the Yanks just may be signing a pitcher who has never pitched in the majors to the equivalent of a 3 year, 70 million dollar contract.So the Yanks better be fucking sure about this guy and he better be better than a #3.   Ichiro's posting fee was something like 13 mil. 25 sounds ridiculous, as does 12-15 per for a guy who's never pitched in MLB.  His agent can ask for whatever he dreams up, nobody will pay that. The Yanks will likely be the highest bidder, and I doubt its anywhere near those #s.

spoon

10-10-2006, 03:41 PM

Bulldogcakes

10-10-2006, 03:44 PM

H-Box, are you fimilar with this posting system? It would seem to me if he has a year to go before free agancy, you could work out a posting fee and then buy out his contract or work out a trade. Is that where they get the 25 mil from? Even so, with an aquisition fee like that you'd need to sign him for way longer than 3 years to spread out the initial cost.

HBox

10-10-2006, 04:01 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: H-Box, are you fimilar with this posting system? It would seem to me if he has a year to go before free agancy, you could work out a posting fee and then buy out his contract or work out a trade. Is that where they get the 25 mil from? Even so, with an aquisition fee like that you'd need to sign him for way longer than 3 years to spread out the initial cost.   The reason Japanese team use the posting system (Spoon wil love this) is because they cannot afford to keep these players if they allow them to enter free agency. So the Japanese teams usually wait until the year before and make a mint off of an MLB team. The onyl exception is the Yomiuri Giants who could afford to allow Matsui to enter free agency since they can afford whoever they want.And I'm sure that MLBPA will not allow any of its players to be traded to Japan and its a moot point anyway because the Japanese teams are just interested in cash.The $25 million is speculation but I would bet that whatever the Yanks bid will be above $20 mil. And with the way the pitching has been and the blind auction set up I would not be surprised if the Yanks went way overboard if they are sure of Matsuzaka.As for the 3 year deal they could sign him longer term but there has to be some sort of risk management. The thing to remember is that the posting fee will not apply to his salary or revenue sharing.As for Ichiro these are two very distinct situations. First, Ichiro was the first position player from Japan. He was a bigger risk than Mastuzaka, maybe much bigger and he still garnered 13 million. Matsuzaka probably has the best stuff of any pitcher coming from Japan and since he isn't the first of his kind and he has dominating the WBC in his favor it could lead to some insane bids. I'd also guess that there will be more teams bidding on Matsuzaka than were on Ichiro.And as for Matsuzaka's contract on thing in his favor will be that posting fee hanging over the head of the team who wins the bid. The higher it gets the more money he makes since it essentially sets a starting point for negotiations and that money stands to go down the toilet if no agreement is reached.

Bulldogcakes

10-10-2006, 04:24 PM

HBox wrote:And I'm sure that MLBPA will not allow any of its players to be traded to Japan and its a moot point anyway because the Japanese teams are just interested in cash. As for Ichiro these are two very distinct situations. First, Ichiro was the first position player from Japan. He was a bigger risk than Mastuzaka, maybe much bigger and he still garnered 13 million. Matsuzaka probably has the best stuff of any pitcher coming from Japan and since he isn't the first of his kind and he has dominating the WBC in his favor it could lead to some insane bids. I'd also guess that there will be more teams bidding on Matsuzaka than were on Ichiro.And as for Matsuzaka's contract on thing in his favor will be that posting fee hanging over the head of the team who wins the bid. The higher it gets the more money he makes since it essentially sets a starting point for negotiations and that money stands to go down the toilet if no agreement is reached.  I was thinking minor leaguers, but whatever. As far as the other bidders, I doubt there will be many at the #s were discussing here. This sounds very pricey at half the cost for a guy who's never pitched in MLB. And while a team stands to lose the posting fee, if they own his rights at that point (I cant imagine they wouldn't) they're not in such a bad bargaining position. The player would be looking at not being able to play anywhere and making no salary at all if they cant reach an agrement. THe team stands to lose the fee. Both sides have a substantial interest to work out an agreement.   <blockquote />

specialguy

10-10-2006, 05:09 PM

Why don't the Yankees just buy the Tigers or for that matter any team that beats them.  That way they can always be the champs.   Don't you people in New York realise that most of the country does not care what you think about.  You are so self absorbed.  When I think of New York, I think of Rude cab drivers, a dirty old city and stupid people in the Mafia-  for the most part very embarassing for most Americans.  Any city that worships Billy Joel and Barbara Striesand is kind of spooky to the rest of us.  You people should be embarassed.  As an American,  I still feel terrible about 911 and the pain you went through.   But please culturally try and learn from the rest of the country.   Steinbrenner is an Ass and so is Donald Trump,  nobody looks up to them but you guys.  Honest.

jake5098

10-10-2006, 05:12 PM

TRADE A-ROD GET RID OF THE BIG BUST UNIT, MUSSINA AND THE CHIEF AND GET GOOD YOUNG PICHING

Doctor Z

10-10-2006, 05:32 PM

Zito is currently supporting my argument as to why I DON'T WANT HIM ON THE YANKEES.I'm going on record: I don't want Zito. If we go after him and he's a bust, you heard it here first.

Doctor Z

10-10-2006, 05:36 PM

<hr color="cococo" align="left">jake5098 wrote: TRADE A-ROD GET RID OF THE BIG BUST UNIT, MUSSINA AND THE CHIEF AND GET GOOD YOUNG PICHING <hr color="cococo" align="left">
<IMG SRC="http://homepage.mac.com/assbasket/.Pictures/chief.jpg">
"Chief play basketball, not baseball."

This message was edited by Doctor_Z on 10-11-06 @ 3:37 AM

mikeyboy

10-10-2006, 05:40 PM

specialguy wrote: Why don't the Yankees just buy the Tigers or for that matter any team that beats them.  That way they can always be the champs.   Don't you people in New York realise that most of the country does not care what you think about.  You are so self absorbed.  When I think of New York, I think of Rude cab drivers, a dirty old city and stupid people in the Mafia-  for the most part very embarassing for most Americans.  Any city that worships Billy Joel and Barbara Striesand is kind of spooky to the rest of us.  You people should be embarassed.  As an American,  I still feel terrible about 911 and the pain you went through.   But please culturally try and learn from the rest of the country.   Steinbrenner is an Ass and so is Donald Trump,  nobody looks up to them but you guys.  Honest. Wow. I'm not a native New Yorker, and it took me quite a while to adjust to the big city, but if that's your myopic, prejudicial and uneducated view of New York, you really might want to get out more.edit: and I'll be the first to admit that the Yanks have their share of douchebag fans (this board certainly isn't immune), but I after moving here, I learned that the majority of the real fans are just knowledgable fans passionate about their team.

This message was edited by mikeyboy on 10-10-06 @ 9:44 PM

HBox

10-10-2006, 05:44 PM

specialguy wrote: Why don't the Yankees just buy the Tigers or for that matter any team that beats them. That way they can always be the champs. Don't you people in New York realise that most of the country does not care what you think about. You are so self absorbed. When I think of New York, I think of Rude cab drivers, a dirty old city and stupid people in the Mafia- for the most part very embarassing for most Americans. Any city that worships Billy Joel and Barbara Striesand is kind of spooky to the rest of us. You people should be embarassed. As an American, I still feel terrible about 911 and the pain you went through. But please culturally try and learn from the rest of the country. Steinbrenner is an Ass and so is Donald Trump, nobody looks up to them but you guys. Honest.  RED STATE UPDATE! RED STATE UPDATE!

specialguy

10-10-2006, 06:09 PM

Actually,  I will take back the part on Steinbrenner.  If he is that demanding,  He probably ought to be running the country or at least the war in Iraq.   I knew along time ago that Rumsfield was inept.  Sorry there is something to be said of being a determined and demanding boss.  But I still stand behind my Billy Joel, Striesand, Mafia comments. 

TheMojoPin

10-10-2006, 06:18 PM

specialguy wrote: Actually,  I will take back the part on Steinbrenner.  If he is that demanding,  He probably ought to be running the country or at least the war in Iraq.   I knew along time ago that Rumsfield was inept.  Sorry there is something to be said of being a determined and demanding boss.  But I still stand behind my Billy Joel, Striesand, Mafia comments.  They were pretty ridiculous.  New York is one of the most famous and greatest cities in the world.  It sets the tone for so many trends, financial, social, political...you name it.  None of that happened by chance.  New York is nothing to be ashamed of.  But you said your bit...let's not derail the thread any further.

Doctor Z

10-10-2006, 11:42 PM

"First-base coach Tony Pena will interview for the vacant Nationals managerial position as the Yankees granted permission for Washington to meet with the former Royals manager. ... "

Looks like Jorge might be losing his buddy. I'm a fan of Pena, so I hope he stays.

spoon

10-10-2006, 11:58 PM

specialguy wrote: Why don't the Yankees just buy the Tigers or for that matter any team that beats them.  That way they can always be the champs.   Don't you people in New York realise that most of the country does not care what you think about.  You are so self absorbed.  When I think of New York, I think of Rude cab drivers, a dirty old city and stupid people in the Mafia-  for the most part very embarassing for most Americans.  Any city that worships Billy Joel and Barbara Striesand is kind of spooky to the rest of us.  You people should be embarassed.  As an American,  I still feel terrible about 911 and the pain you went through.   But please culturally try and learn from the rest of the country.   Steinbrenner is an Ass and so is Donald Trump,  nobody looks up to them but you guys.  Honest. Wow, pony up and fill us in on where you're from.  Like MB said we have our share of fucked fans for the NY teams but come on buddy.  I've been all over this country and nothing, nothing compares to NYC!  Many cities have their charm and beauty, but NYC has everything.  The diversity, activities, arts, history, you name it as New York has it all.  And try to be a little more cliche with your points because it just makes it rediculous. Look I live in the metro area too and can't stand some yank fan attitudes toward their team and the league, but calling us all "Striesand and Joel" fans is plain insulting.  Take it back!  Just remember, there are enough people here for even some of the obscure bands I like to sell out medium size venues like Hammerstein.  I'm willing to bet a ton that nobody on this board from the area even pays as much attention to Trump as you do.  And Trump owns property all over the country, not just NYC.  In fact, he may even own your whole town/state.  I'm no fan of his either but your quote of "learn from the rest of the country" line is hilarious.

HBox

10-11-2006, 12:02 AM

But please culturally try and learn from the rest of the country. Steal your federal tax dollars so we can use Homeland Security to protect our Wal-Marts?Oh wait, CULTURALLY. I'm gonna go and write a song about beating my wife. 

This message was edited by HBox on 10-11-06 @ 4:05 AM

spoon

10-11-2006, 02:19 AM

Special guy might be just that to finally unite us in this thread, but against his post.

spoon

10-11-2006, 02:20 AM

I think the yankee threads are going to be a huge reason I finally become a "Big Ass Veteran"!!  Not long now....

This message was edited by spoon on 10-11-06 @ 6:21 AM

narc

10-11-2006, 11:10 AM

HBox wrote: But please culturally try and learn from the rest of the country. Steal your federal tax dollars so we can use Homeland Security to protect our Wal-Marts?Oh wait, CULTURALLY. I'm gonna go and write a song about beating my wife. 

This message was edited by HBox on 10-11-06 @ 4:05 AM    Don't pretend like everyone not from NYC who doesn't like NYC is a redneck with no sense of culture. It's obnoxious.

TheMojoPin

10-11-2006, 11:17 AM

narc wrote:  HBox wrote:  But please culturally try and learn from the rest of the country.  Steal your federal tax dollars so we can use Homeland Security to protect our Wal-Marts?Oh wait, CULTURALLY. I'm gonna go and write a song about beating my wife. This message was edited by HBox on 10-11-06 @ 4:05 AM     Don't pretend like everyone not from NYC who doesn't like NYC is a redneck with no sense of culture. It's obnoxious.  True, but you get a definite impression from the initial rant that the guy was basically saying "hey, all of you cities near major bodies of water...SHUT UP."  It's usually a safe bet where a diatribe like that came from.

narc

10-11-2006, 11:22 AM

TheMojoPin wrote: narc wrote: HBox wrote: But please culturally try and learn from the rest of the country. Steal your federal tax dollars so we can use Homeland Security to protect our Wal-Marts?Oh wait, CULTURALLY. I'm gonna go and write a song about beating my wife. This message was edited by HBox on 10-11-06 @ 4:05 AM Don't pretend like everyone not from NYC who doesn't like NYC is a redneck with no sense of culture. It's obnoxious. True, but you get a definite impression from the initial rant that the guy was basically saying "hey, all of you cities near major bodies of water...SHUT UP." It's usually a safe bet where a diatribe like that came from.  I don't know, I didn't get that from it. But I could be wrong.

JimBeam

10-11-2006, 11:49 AM

I agree that people in the northeast have a habit of thinking that they're more educated ( although we have some of the worst grammar and high schools in the country ) and cultured than people in other parts of the country but the quote about " cab drivers, dirty city and mafia " is equally as ridiculous.

HBox

10-11-2006, 12:08 PM

narc wrote: HBox wrote: But please culturally try and learn from the rest of the country. Steal your federal tax dollars so we can use Homeland Security to protect our Wal-Marts?Oh wait, CULTURALLY. I'm gonna go and write a song about beating my wife. 

This message was edited by HBox on 10-11-06 @ 4:05 AM Don't pretend like everyone not from NYC who doesn't like NYC is a redneck with no sense of culture. It's obnoxious.   Just giving the guy a taste of his own medicine.

Doctor Z

10-11-2006, 12:17 PM

I'm no Modologist and don't have my degree in Modology... But can we take the New York vs. Rednecks argument elsewhere and get back to the pissing wars and feverish speculation.

mdr55

10-11-2006, 01:07 PM

At least they don't have to worry about........

Marc with a c

10-11-2006, 01:08 PM

cmon man.

HBox

10-11-2006, 01:10 PM

As soon as I heard this story I was going to post here "no jokes". I didn't but apparently I should have.

Doctor Z

10-11-2006, 01:10 PM

Digusting.

narc

10-11-2006, 01:25 PM

This kind of makes the whole discussion before seem trivial. It might be too early to look for a silver lining, but I hope the team comes together over this one. Oftentimes, going through something traumatic like this can be good for a group of individuals in that it bonds them together.

mdr55

10-11-2006, 01:30 PM

Maybe teammates will realize that scabs are people too.

Kevin

10-11-2006, 01:31 PM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2621860" target="_self">Cory Lidle the Pilot of the plane. Dead. Sad fucking story.</a>

Tenbatsuzen

10-11-2006, 02:24 PM

HBox wrote:  2007 Yankees Off-Season Thread (The Destruction)  I just wanted to start this quick before certain other board members started one and jinxed us again.<img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/unsure.gif" />

Tenbatsuzen

10-11-2006, 02:29 PM

Hi, this is Matthew F., the actor who plays "Matty Fridays" and "Tenbatsuzen" on RonFez.net.  I just want to point out that the preceeding post wasn't mocking Cory Lidle's death OR the tragedy that surrounds it, rather, a satire on my own superstitions and how the thread title plus HBox's initial post kind of made it all circle around on itself.

mdr55

10-11-2006, 02:31 PM

Hi Matty!!!!<img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/bye.gif" />

Tenbatsuzen

10-11-2006, 04:30 PM

Susan Waldmyn isn't crying, but she's having an emotional interview with Somers right now.

Bulldogcakes

10-11-2006, 04:48 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: HBox wrote: 2007 Yankees Off-Season Thread (The Destruction) I just wanted to start this quick before certain other board members started one and jinxed us again.<img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/unsure.gif" /> 

   So now its my fault Cory Lidle died? Lets recap, Its my fault they lost the series. And that Cory Lidle died. All because of a tongue in cheek thread title. Never took any classes on critical thinking, did we? <blockquote />

Tenbatsuzen

10-11-2006, 08:09 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Tenbatsuzen wrote: HBox wrote: 2007 Yankees Off-Season Thread (The Destruction) I just wanted to start this quick before certain other board members started one and jinxed us again.<img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/unsure.gif" /> 

 So now its my fault Cory Lidle died? Lets recap, Its my fault they lost the series. And that Cory Lidle died. All because of a tongue in cheek thread title. Never took any classes on critical thinking, did we?    I also blame you for John Denver and JFK Jr.   <blockquote />