2007 Yankees Off-Season Thread (The Destruction) [Archive] - Page 3

cougarjake13

11-04-2006, 05:45 AM

TheMojoPin wrote: Kevin wrote: TheMojoPin wrote: Kevin wrote: spoon wrote: Kevin wrote: newport king wrote: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phcYDO5I2a8">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phcYDO5I2a8</a> That right there is why the Yankees have to file a restraining order on you stalking Yankee haters. Think about it you have to spend time out of your life to create shirts and videos that involves a team that does not give a shit about you or about what you do. That classifies a stalker. So please Yankee haters go stalk some other team before we have to lock your asses up. Come on Kevin, that is half the fun of rooting for your team, ripping their opponents and right now bc the yanks make it to the playoffs every year they are everybody's opponent.  "involves a team that does not give a shit about you or about what you do."  And that's what pisses off so many people bc they believe the yanks are what's wrong with the league, or at least the catalyst for keeping things from being fixed.  I know what your saying Spoon. But sometimes it is too much. people go to far. And to Yankee fan at least, looks a bit stalkerish (is that a word?) I mean come on, some of that shit takes a ton of work. But yea i know how it could seen funny to a Yankee hater.It takes a ton of work to make a short film clip like that?  Come on...it probably took that guy a few hours at the very most.  Most of those photos can be compiled in minutes using Google.You can spin that argument about anyone who makes a joke or a bit or a parody of anything.Yea but your still taking a few hours out of your life to make a thing about a team. You do not do that for a normal team. That is stalking.Again, it takes time to make up any kind of skit/parody along those lines.  So, what, are SNL and The Daily Show now "stalking" the people they spend tons of money and time to make fun of?  And I don't know why you're acting like this only happens to the Yankees...people make jokes and rip on all the teams they hate.  The Yankees might get it more since larger fanbase usually also translate to more haters, but quit acting like somethins is abnormal about making fun of something.difference is snl and daily show are getting paid to do it, this guy is doing it on his on time for fun with the only reward being that other people will see it and may be laugh

This message was edited by cougarjake13 on 11-5-06 @ 8:58 AM

Bulldogcakes

11-05-2006, 04:01 AM

<a title="http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/11/index.html" target="_self" href="http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/11/index.html">Matsuzaka derby down to 5 teams </a> RotoWire reports that the serious suitors for Daisuke Matsuzaka
appear to be just the Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Red Sox, and Rangers. This
comes after reports of many teams pulling out of the bidding - the
Orioles, Dodgers, Angels, and Giants.

Smart money appears to be on New York, or maybe that's just where all the hype comes from. Hard to tell. <a href="http://matsuzaka.blogspot.com/2006/11/yankees-are-in-house.html">Mike Plugh finds an interesting note</a> in a Japanese newspaper: the Yankees may bid less than $20MM. As Plugh says, that's a surefire way to make the pitcher a Met. Again, not buying it. Now that they effectively scared off 6 teams from bidding by throwing out #s like a 45 mil bid, They are now trying to get teams to lower their bids by saying they'll be below 20 mil, so as to guarentee a winning bid. My guess is they'll be in the mid to high 20's, and they'll get him. Whether thats a good thing or not I have no idea.You cant claim the guy will sell more tickets, the Yanks already drew 4 mil last year. Draw interest from Japan? They already have the country's biggest star, Matsui. If they will spend 20 mil a year on this guy, they better be sure he can not just pitch, but DOMINATE in the bigs. Good luck. All I know is my seats will be going up another 10% as a result of this.     

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-5-06 @ 8:29 AM

Bulldogcakes

11-05-2006, 02:38 PM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2650693" target="_self" title="Yanks have exercised Sheff's option">Yanks have exercised Sheff's option</a>  No word yet on where he's going, but this means there's a deal in place.

Kevin

11-05-2006, 02:43 PM

I am actualy really excited about it. I am like a kid waiting for Santa on Xmas eve. Just waiting on what we are going to get. What a great move picking up that option is. We should hear something pretty soon.

TheMojoPin

11-05-2006, 03:08 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: <a title="http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/11/index.html" href="http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/11/index.html" target="_self">Matsuzaka derby down to 5 teams </a>    RotoWire reports that the serious suitors for Daisuke Matsuzaka appear to be just the Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Red Sox, and Rangers. This comes after reports of many teams pulling out of the bidding - the Orioles, Dodgers, Angels, and Giants.Smart money appears to be on New York, or maybe that's just where all the hype comes from. Hard to tell. <a href="http://matsuzaka.blogspot.com/2006/11/yankees-are-in-house.html">Mike Plugh finds an interesting note</a> in a Japanese newspaper: the Yankees may bid less than $20MM. As Plugh says, that's a surefire way to make the pitcher a Met.    Again, not buying it. Now that they effectively scared off 6 teams from bidding by throwing out #s like a 45 mil bid, They are now trying to get teams to lower their bids by saying they'll be below 20 mil, so as to guarentee a winning bid. My guess is they'll be in the mid to high 20's, and they'll get him. Whether thats a good thing or not I have no idea.You cant claim the guy will sell more tickets, the Yanks already drew 4 mil last year. Draw interest from Japan? They already have the country's biggest star, Matsui. If they will spend 20 mil a year on this guy, they better be sure he can not just pitch, but DOMINATE in the bigs. Good luck. All I know is my seats will be going up another 10% as a result of this.        This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-5-06 @ 8:29 AM I keep hearing that the Rangers may be out, too.  That just leaves the Cubs, Red Sox, Mets and Yankees.  I think it'll come down to the Cubs or Mets.  Not even the Yankees can shell out for this guy at what he's reported to cost AND go out and get another guy like Zito or Schmidt and/or trade for another top pitcher.  Given what they're already paying, I think the Yanks go all out for and get Zito and then end up with someone like Willis in a trade and maybe one of the other Japanese pitchers available (there's 2 big ones besides Daisuke posting, one who has a much better (and longer) career ERA.And those of you thinking the YouTube clip is some kind of example of "obsession" or "stalking," just get that people like to make fun of things they don't like or easy targets like Jeter and ARod.  It's not that big a deal.  Quit bitching like Sheffield and man up like Matsui.

Kevin

11-05-2006, 03:14 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: <a title="http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/11/index.html" href="http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/11/index.html" target="_self">Matsuzaka derby down to 5 teams </a>    RotoWire reports that the serious suitors for Daisuke Matsuzaka appear to be just the Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Red Sox, and Rangers. This comes after reports of many teams pulling out of the bidding - the Orioles, Dodgers, Angels, and Giants.Smart money appears to be on New York, or maybe that's just where all the hype comes from. Hard to tell. <a href="http://matsuzaka.blogspot.com/2006/11/yankees-are-in-house.html">Mike Plugh finds an interesting note</a> in a Japanese newspaper: the Yankees may bid less than $20MM. As Plugh says, that's a surefire way to make the pitcher a Met.    Again, not buying it. Now that they effectively scared off 6 teams from bidding by throwing out #s like a 45 mil bid, They are now trying to get teams to lower their bids by saying they'll be below 20 mil, so as to guarentee a winning bid. My guess is they'll be in the mid to high 20's, and they'll get him. Whether thats a good thing or not I have no idea.You cant claim the guy will sell more tickets, the Yanks already drew 4 mil last year. Draw interest from Japan? They already have the country's biggest star, Matsui. If they will spend 20 mil a year on this guy, they better be sure he can not just pitch, but DOMINATE in the bigs. Good luck. All I know is my seats will be going up another 10% as a result of this.        This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-5-06 @ 8:29 AM I keep hearing that the Rangers may be out, too.  That just leaves the Cubs, Red Sox, Mets and Yankees.  I think it'll come down to the Cubs or Mets.  Not even the Yankees can shell out for this guy at what he's reported to cost AND go out and get another guy like Zito or Schmidt and/or trade for another top pitcher.  Given what they're already paying, I think the Yanks go all out for and get Zito and then end up with someone like Willis in a trade and maybe one of the other Japanese pitchers available (there's 2 big ones besides Daisuke posting, one who has a much better (and longer) career ERA.And those of you thinking the YouTube clip is some kind of example of "obsession" or "stalking," just get that people like to make fun of things they don't like or easy targets like Jeter and ARod.  It's not that big a deal.  Quit bitching like Sheffield and man up like Matsui.<img height="260" src="http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/coverv/83/126683.jpg" width="144" border="0" />

Kevin

11-05-2006, 03:21 PM

By the way, There is no fucking way they are dealing Sheff to the Mets or Redsox, unless they get one of their top pitching prospects. And i do not see any of the two teams giving any up. I just think they are pulling a reverse job on other teams. They are just mentioning those teams to drive up the price a bit, like other teams do with the Yankees.

Bulldogcakes

11-05-2006, 05:16 PM

TheMojoPin wrote:I keep hearing that the Rangers may be out, too. That just leaves the Cubs, Red Sox, Mets and Yankees. I think it'll come down to the Cubs or Mets. Not even the Yankees can shell out for this guy at what he's reported to cost AND go out and get another guy like Zito or Schmidt and/or trade for another top pitcher. Given what they're already paying, I think the Yanks go all out for and get Zito and then end up with someone like Willis in a trade and maybe one of the other Japanese pitchers available (there's 2 big ones besides Daisuke posting, one who has a much better (and longer) career ERA. If your going to spend 20 mil per year you'd have to think this is a top of the rotation guy. The Yanks and Mets both need #1 starters (neither has one). The Bosox and Cubs dont, and I cant see them spending this kind of money when they need a 3rd or 4th starter. This free agent market isn't great, but you can find a 3 or 4 for half of what this guy will cost, which is to say you could fill 2 needs rather than one. I think they'll both bid, but try to keep the cost around 12.5 per year, which only leaves them around 10 mil for a bid after Boras is done with them. Mets and Yanks will go above that, but the Mets have a budget they have to work around and will also bid up to a limit. The Yanks budget is always flexible, and 13 mil comes off the books for Sheffield once dealt. All the signals the Yanks are sending out tell me that they are serious, and if they are I wouldn't bet against them.I dont think the Yanks like Zito, and most people think Schmidt will end up on the west coast. I'll believe Willis is available when he's traded. The Marlins showed this year they're closer than people think.   The other Japanese pitcher is Kei Agawa, and he's a lefty with very good #s. I also think he's a straight free agent, so there's no posting fee. A team will just have to sign him, another thing to consider when going overboard for Matsuzaka. 

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-5-06 @ 9:24 PM

spoon

11-06-2006, 12:57 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  TheMojoPin wrote: I keep hearing that the Rangers may be out, too. That just leaves the Cubs, Red Sox, Mets and Yankees. I think it'll come down to the Cubs or Mets. Not even the Yankees can shell out for this guy at what he's reported to cost AND go out and get another guy like Zito or Schmidt and/or trade for another top pitcher. Given what they're already paying, I think the Yanks go all out for and get Zito and then end up with someone like Willis in a trade and maybe one of the other Japanese pitchers available (there's 2 big ones besides Daisuke posting, one who has a much better (and longer) career ERA.   If your going to spend 20 mil per year you'd have to think this is a top of the rotation guy. The Yanks and Mets both need #1 starters (neither has one). The Bosox and Cubs dont, and I cant see them spending this kind of money when they need a 3rd or 4th starter. This free agent market isn't great, but you can find a 3 or 4 for half of what this guy will cost, which is to say you could fill 2 needs rather than one. I think they'll both bid, but try to keep the cost around 12.5 per year, which only leaves them around 10 mil for a bid after Boras is done with them. Mets and Yanks will go above that, but the Mets have a budget they have to work around and will also bid up to a limit. The Yanks budget is always flexible, and 13 mil comes off the books for Sheffield once dealt. All the signals the Yanks are sending out tell me that they are serious, and if they are I wouldn't bet against them.I dont think the Yanks like Zito, and most people think Schmidt will end up on the west coast. I'll believe Willis is available when he's traded. The Marlins showed this year they're closer than people think.   The other Japanese pitcher is Kei Agawa, and he's a lefty with very good #s. I also think he's a straight free agent, so there's no posting fee. A team will just have to sign him, another thing to consider when going overboard for Matsuzaka. This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-5-06 @ 9:24 PM So you really think Shef will be traded and the yanks won't pay any of his salary?  If that happens I can promise you he won't get you much.  The yanks have nowhere to put him and he's a proven cancer, roid user.  I hope the yanks get stuck with him now or at least has to pay a good portion of his salary and gets shit for him.  Any team in the hunt for him has to know they hold the advantage in the dealings.

Don Stugots

11-06-2006, 01:28 AM

i agree with Spoon.  i cant see a team taking Shef knowing that he will be a pain in the ass and then have to pay him.  it really works best for the other team if they pay him next to nothing with the yanks picking up a good part his contract.  this way they are getting an ass in their locker room with the built in excuse of "well, we are not really paying him."

crb1

11-06-2006, 04:51 AM

With Sheffield, somewhere between $4.5 - 5 million of the $13 million on his deal is deferred.  So, any team would only be paying him $8 million next year.  That's a factor for any team handed a budget.  Also, you have to compare him against the $60-75 million you would have to pay for Soriano or Lee.  There are a lot of teams with money, so I expect that the Yanks won't pay any of his deal unless they can get good quality in return.  I think they'll wind up getting some #4 starter, a decent bullpen arm, or a prospect or two for him.As for Matsuzaka, I read something interesting the other day about the posting process.  I really doubt any team would pull a move like this though...Say the Red Sox wanted him, but couldn't afford him for budget reasons.  However, they may be able to afford him next year.  They can submit an absurd bid (e.g. $35 million).  That bid, assuming it was the highest, gets submitted to Seibu.  If they accept it, the Sox would get exclusive negotiating rights.  They could then lowball him, and two things could happen.  He can say no and go back to Japan (possible given his agent: Boras).  Or he can accept and the Sox get him cheap.  Either way, they would keep him off the market.Again though, I seriously doubt it would happen.  I think Buster Olney wrote about it on espn.com last week.

Bulldogcakes

11-06-2006, 03:34 PM

crb1 wrote:As for Matsuzaka, I read something interesting the other day about the posting process. I really doubt any team would pull a move like this though...Say the Red Sox wanted him, but couldn't afford him for budget reasons. However, they may be able to afford him next year. They can submit an absurd bid (e.g. $35 million). That bid, assuming it was the highest, gets submitted to Seibu. If they accept it, the Sox would get exclusive negotiating rights. They could then lowball him, and two things could happen. He can say no and go back to Japan (possible given his agent: Boras). Or he can accept and the Sox get him cheap. Either way, they would keep him off the market.Again though, I seriously doubt it would happen. I think Buster Olney wrote about it on espn.com last week. No offense, CRB, But that may be the 50th time this week I've read that from somewhere who thought it was the first time its been considered. Its not. Bud Selig has already said he wont allow that to happen. The Seibu Lions dont want that to happen either, You know why? If Matsuzaka doesn't sign they have to return the posting fee and then he leaves for nothing as a free agent next year. Boras doesn't want that to happen because he loses his piece for this year and will never get it back. Boras has already made it known what salary range he wants to sign him, and says whatever a team bids has nothing to do with his salary demands. No team could claim they "thought" they could get Matsuzaka for 3 mil per year.  They wont get away with it, it wont happen.  What would Bud do? Probably get the Japanese league to waive the one team wins rule and give the rights to the next highest bidder. <blockquote />

Bulldogcakes

11-06-2006, 04:29 PM

I've been waiting for a Sheff deal for the past 3 days, and now I'm done with it. It seemed to me the Yanks wouldn't want to pick up his option unless they had an immediate deal to make, so that they wouldn't back themselves into a corner. But apparently they dont feel that way. I would think now they HAVE to get rid of him, since he has nowhere to play. But since it didn't happen right away, maybe it wont happen for months now. Some teams after him are also after Soriano and Carlos Lee and may be willing to bid higher once the free agent market sorts itself out a bit. With what I'm hearing, his 13 mil might look cheap after what some of those guys will be getting.  Package him with A-Rod to the Dodgers and tell them to back up the truck with prospects.

crb1

11-07-2006, 04:35 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: No offense, CRB, But that may be the 50th time this week I've read that from somewhere who thought it was the first time its been considered. Its not. Bud Selig has already said he wont allow that to happen. The Seibu Lions dont want that to happen either, You know why? If Matsuzaka doesn't sign they have to return the posting fee and then he leaves for nothing as a free agent next year. Boras doesn't want that to happen because he loses his piece for this year and will never get it back. Boras has already made it known what salary range he wants to sign him, and says whatever a team bids has nothing to do with his salary demands. No team could claim they "thought" they could get Matsuzaka for 3 mil per year.  They wont get away with it, it wont happen.  What would Bud do? Probably get the Japanese league to waive the one team wins rule and give the rights to the next highest bidder. I said more than once in my post that I thought there was no way it would happen.  It was just a hypothetical.  However, don't also take for granted that he will sign with the highest bidder. If Boras thinks he can pull a lot more money when he's an unrestricted FA next year, he would let him go back to Japan.  He has an established history of that with drafted players.Again though, I doubt it will happen, since any team likely to bid is looking for a #1 or #2 starter and is willing to pay for it.

crb1

11-07-2006, 04:38 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: I've been waiting for a Sheff deal for the past 3 days, and now I'm done with it. It seemed to me the Yanks wouldn't want to pick up his option unless they had an immediate deal to make, so that they wouldn't back themselves into a corner. But apparently they dont feel that way. I would think now they HAVE to get rid of him, since he has nowhere to play. But since it didn't happen right away, maybe it wont happen for months now. Some teams after him are also after Soriano and Carlos Lee and may be willing to bid higher once the free agent market sorts itself out a bit. With what I'm hearing, his 13 mil might look cheap after what some of those guys will be getting.  Package him with A-Rod to the Dodgers and tell them to back up the truck with prospects.  I'm wondering if they'll do the same thing with Jaret Wright.  They could pick up $3 million of his deal, which would save them $1 million of his buyout, and then trade him.  They can then wait until the mid-range starters begin inking their deals, before looking to trade him.  After seeing some of the deals guys on the same level as Wright get, he may not look so bad.

BoondockSaint

11-07-2006, 05:06 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  crb1 wrote: As for Matsuzaka, I read something interesting the other day about the posting process. I really doubt any team would pull a move like this though...Say the Red Sox wanted him, but couldn't afford him for budget reasons. However, they may be able to afford him next year. They can submit an absurd bid (e.g. $35 million). That bid, assuming it was the highest, gets submitted to Seibu. If they accept it, the Sox would get exclusive negotiating rights. They could then lowball him, and two things could happen. He can say no and go back to Japan (possible given his agent: Boras). Or he can accept and the Sox get him cheap. Either way, they would keep him off the market.Again though, I seriously doubt it would happen. I think Buster Olney wrote about it on espn.com last week. No offense, CRB, But that may be the 50th time this week I've read that from somewhere who thought it was the first time its been considered. Its not. Bud Selig has already said he wont allow that to happen. The Seibu Lions dont want that to happen either, You know why? If Matsuzaka doesn't sign they have to return the posting fee and then he leaves for nothing as a free agent next year. Boras doesn't want that to happen because he loses his piece for this year and will never get it back. Boras has already made it known what salary range he wants to sign him, and says whatever a team bids has nothing to do with his salary demands. No team could claim they "thought" they could get Matsuzaka for 3 mil per year.  They wont get away with it, it wont happen.  What would Bud do? Probably get the Japanese league to waive the one team wins rule and give the rights to the next highest bidder.  Actually he would have to be posted again next year. Ineligible for total free agency until the end of April 2008, the 26-year-old right-hander was made available -- or "posted" -- by the Seibu Lions, who began the process at their discretion on Thursday. The Lions will only receive payment if Matsuzaka is signed to a major-league contract. If not, Matsuzaka will return to Seibu for at least one more season. But he would need to be posted again next year since he's not officially a free agent until 20 days into the 2008 season. 

This message was edited by BoondockSaint on 11-7-06 @ 9:07 AM

crb1

11-07-2006, 05:32 AM

BoondockSaint wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote:  The Lions will only receive payment if Matsuzaka is signed to a major-league contract. If not, Matsuzaka will return to Seibu for at least one more season. But he would need to be posted again next year since he's not officially a free agent until 20 days into the 2008 season. 20 days into the season?  How do they determine their free agency dates?  Wouldn't that mean he could leave the Lions after three weeks, and go sign with another team (assuming he was still in Japan)?

BoondockSaint

11-07-2006, 06:09 AM

crb1 wrote: BoondockSaint wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote:  The Lions will only receive payment if Matsuzaka is signed to a major-league contract. If not, Matsuzaka will return to Seibu for at least one more season. But he would need to be posted again next year since he's not officially a free agent until 20 days into the 2008 season. 20 days into the season?  How do they determine their free agency dates?  Wouldn't that mean he could leave the Lions after three weeks, and go sign with another team (assuming he was still in Japan)?No.  MLB is the same way.  He has to play the whole season.

Bulldogcakes

11-07-2006, 02:22 PM

Boonie, correct me if I'm wrong but his contract runs out after this coming season. He could simply sit out and not sign with anyone until he's eligible, which would be 20 days into (our) next season (over here). I'm not surprised the two seasons dont coincide. I'd imagine the weather is totally different there than it is here. Its on the other side of the world and the other side of the equator.   

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-7-06 @ 6:23 PM

BoondockSaint

11-07-2006, 02:33 PM

No.  He needs to play because he needs the service time.  If he doesn't play he doesn't earn service time and therefore wouldn't acheive free agency.

Jujubees2

11-07-2006, 02:55 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Boonie, correct me if I'm wrong but his contract runs out after this coming season. He could simply sit out and not sign with anyone until he's eligible, which would be 20 days into (our) next season (over here). I'm not surprised the two seasons dont coincide. I'd imagine the weather is totally different there than it is here. Its on the other side of the world and the other side of the equator.This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-7-06 @ 6:23 PM Hate to burst your bubble Bulldog, but Japan is north of the equator, just like the U.S..<img height="377" src="http://www.worldpress.org/images/maps/world_600w.jpg" width="600" border="0" />

TheGameHHH

11-07-2006, 03:29 PM

seriously BDC, that japan and equator comment might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard anyone say in here......and thats saying a lot.

Kevin

11-07-2006, 03:34 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Boonie, correct me if I'm wrong but his contract runs out after this coming season. He could simply sit out and not sign with anyone until he's eligible, which would be 20 days into (our) next season (over here). I'm not surprised the two seasons dont coincide. I'd imagine the weather is totally different there than it is here. Its on the other side of the world and the other side of the equator.  This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-7-06 @ 6:23 PM <img height="200" src="http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/6/6c/200px-Faarooq.jpg" width="200" border="0" />.................................................. ..............................................                       DAMN!

Bulldogcakes

11-07-2006, 05:27 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: seriously BDC, that japan and equator comment might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard anyone say in here......and thats saying a lot.  Blow me.  <blockquote />

TheGameHHH

11-07-2006, 06:58 PM

ew, no.

spoon

11-07-2006, 08:48 PM

BDC knows as much about Geography as he does baseball outside of the yankees!  Myopic Man to the rescue!

Don Stugots

11-07-2006, 10:13 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: TheGameHHH wrote: seriously BDC, that japan and equator comment might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard anyone say in here......and thats saying a lot. Blow me.    yummy <blockquote />

A.J.

11-08-2006, 06:03 AM

<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15594331/" target="_self">Clemens and Pettitte back to New York</a>?

Don Stugots

11-08-2006, 06:47 AM

A.J. wrote: <a target="_self" href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15594331/">Clemens and Pettitte back to New York</a>?   i heard this on CBS radio last night and thought the announcer was just saying it to hype the sports show coming up later that night.  i can see it happening and would love it, given the current state of the yanks starting pitching.  Clemens, Pettite, Mussina, Wang, Johnson.  pretty impressive.

Bulldogcakes

11-08-2006, 03:44 PM

Matsuzaka posting deadline was 5:00 today. We should find out who got him by tomorrow.

cougarjake13

11-08-2006, 04:26 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Matsuzaka posting deadline was 5:00 today. We should find out who got him by tomorrow. yeh kinda like the sheffield deadlinebtw how'd that go ???

spoon

11-08-2006, 04:29 PM

No need to worry CJ, BDC said the yanks are getting Willis and some prospects for him soon.

TheMojoPin

11-08-2006, 04:30 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Matsuzaka posting deadline was 5:00 today. We should find out who got him by tomorrow. The Lions have 96 hours after the dealine to make a decision, so we might not hear until Sunday evening.

cougarjake13

11-08-2006, 04:36 PM

spoon wrote: No need to worry CJ, BDC said the yanks are getting Willis and some prospects for him soon. dont forget zito, pettite, clemens, and schmidtand Arod and the big unit ( c'mon really how much gayer can you get ?) will finally perform under pressure

HBox

11-08-2006, 06:35 PM

<img border="0" src="http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/7073/yenkeemb5.jpg" />HAH hah. ESPN can't spell.Don't get your hopes up. It's all speculation and nothing is confirmed. And mongoloid Tom Hicks is involved so who knows, that dumbass might have bid $50 million.

spoon

11-09-2006, 12:03 AM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2654620">http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2654620</a>Shef being Shef.  His value just continues to rise baby!  Oh and don't rule out king george in putting in a crazy bid.  You act as if Hicks is that far removed from george, yet they picked up Arod and many other crazy contracts, along with making a shitload of crazy high contracts himself.

HBox

11-09-2006, 12:55 AM

spoon wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2654620">http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2654620</a>Shef being Shef. His value just continues to rise baby! Oh and don't rule out king george in putting in a crazy bid. You act as if Hicks is that far removed from george, yet they picked up Arod and many other crazy contracts, along with making a shitload of crazy high contracts himself. You can say what you want about him but 1. He's clearly not in charge anymore and 2. Hicks signed A-Rod, not George.[/size]

This message was edited by HBox on 11-9-06 @ 4:55 AM

spoon

11-09-2006, 12:58 AM

Also, Hicks made that (Arod) type mistake once and seems to have learned from it.  His manager hire and move to solidify pitching is the right step for the team and I'd rather them getting this guy unless he ends up bombing.  To be honest, he should be in next years draft but that's a whole different argument we've already had.

Dan 'Hampton

11-09-2006, 02:29 AM

"Clemens and Pettitte back to NY?" Great if it was 2001!  Keep screwing up your team George.  You don't have long anyways.

crb1

11-09-2006, 04:30 AM

TheMojoPin wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: Matsuzaka posting deadline was 5:00 today. We should find out who got him by tomorrow. The Lions have 96 hours after the dealine to make a decision, so we might not hear until Sunday evening.I think it won't actually be until Monday, due to the time difference between Japan and the States.

TheMojoPin

11-09-2006, 04:33 AM

crb1 wrote: TheMojoPin wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: Matsuzaka posting deadline was 5:00 today. We should find out who got him by tomorrow. The Lions have 96 hours after the dealine to make a decision, so we might not hear until Sunday evening.I think it won't actually be until Monday, due to the time difference between Japan and the States.  Now I'm reading they actually have until some point on Tuesday.

spoon

11-09-2006, 04:45 AM

Yep, it'll be decided, or at least public knowledge, on Tuesday.

Kevin

11-09-2006, 07:16 AM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2654465" target="_self">Lions have been notified of highest bid for pitcher</a>His Japanese club, the Pacific League's Seibu Lions, said they have been notified of the highest bid for the 26-year-old right-hander. They said they will not make a decision on whether to accept until after a meeting of their board of directors -- not expected to be held before Friday at the earliest.  Ok, should it really take that long?? Seibu has until Tuesday to make its decision. When outfielder <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6615"></a><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6615">Ichiro Suzuki</a> was posted by the Orix BlueWave in November 2000, the BlueWave announced the day after bidding closed that it accepted an offer of $13,125,000, and Selig's office revealed a few hours later that the <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sea"></a><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sea">Seattle Mariners</a> had the winning bid. Suzuki agreed a few weeks later to a $14 million, three-year contract.

This message was edited by Kevin on 11-9-06 @ 11:18 AM

Bulldogcakes

11-09-2006, 03:30 PM

crb1 wrote: TheMojoPin wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: Matsuzaka posting deadline was 5:00 today. We should find out who got him by tomorrow. The Lions have 96 hours after the dealine to make a decision, so we might not hear until Sunday evening.I think it won't actually be until Monday, due to the time difference between Japan and the States.   Plus factor in that they're on the other side of the equator.  <blockquote />

TheMojoPin

11-09-2006, 03:34 PM

I read that the teams supposedly bidding (Yankees, Cubs, Red Sox, Mets, Rangers, Padres) waited until the last few hours to submit their bids so that there was less chance of any info being leaked, with the Yankees submitting the last bid with something like 5 minites to go.I know they're easily the frontrunners to get this guy, but this is still pretty exciting.  I just hope the Cubs don't forget there are other quality players posting over there besides Daisuke.

cougarjake13

11-09-2006, 03:58 PM

HBox wrote: <img src="http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/7073/yenkeemb5.jpg" border="0" />HAH hah. ESPN can't spell. Don't get your hopes up. It's all speculation and nothing is confirmed. And mongoloid Tom Hicks is involved so who knows, that dumbass might have bid $50 million.  could be mispelling or were they just trying to be clever ??japanese name for currency is the yen

TheMojoPin

11-09-2006, 05:39 PM

Well, the rumors are all over the place...in terms of who won I hear either Yankees with $27 million or Cubs with $28 million...the most common rumor is that the Lions' owners are debating whether to accept any offer at all since supposedly they're all in the Ichiro range (around $15 million) as opposed to the $20-30 million expected.

Bulldogcakes

11-09-2006, 06:03 PM

<a title="For the Matsuzaka watchers " target="_self" href="http://matsuzaka.blogspot.com/">For the Matsuzaka watchers </a>   <h2 class="date-header">Friday, November 10, 2006</h2><h3 class="post-title">Low Ball

</h3>

I'm
not one for rumor or innuendo. The process of posting and waiting is
filled with speculation, as everyone involved has been sworn to
absolute silence and secrecy. Nary a leak has been heard from either
side of the Pacific, and it would appear that the business at hand has
been done according to strict, upright standards. It's frustrating for
the fans, who have flooded internet bulletin boards with
unsubstantiated remarks about a cousin who heard from a paperboy that
the Boston front office made a bid of $26 million, but that the
Diamondbacks swooped in through a Middle East mediator to outbid them
at $26 million and 1 dollar. All of it is beyond ridiculous and
unworthy of comment, except in mockery. I will report to you some
tabloid news from the Japanese press this morning. This news is not to
be taken as legitimate press coverage, or anything related to fact. I
present it to you as a way to show the angst on both sides. Two
tabloids are reporting that their is tension at the Seibu offices as a
result of a possible low bid. Speculation has been widely made,
including here, that the winner may produce upwards of $30 million just
to speak with Matsuzaka. These new reports suggest that the amount was
substantially lower, and that it may even be half of that....an
Ichiro-like posting bid. I can't say that I believe any of this, as I
find it hard to imagine that someone didn't bid over $20 million, as
hyped as this free agent market is, but I suppose it is possible. If
true, the Seibu board will have a tough choice to make today. Do you
accept the lowball bid, and count yourself lucky you got anything for
Matsuzaka, or do you retract him from the market and allow him to walk
in the winter of 2007 for nothing? On one hand, you have cash in hand,
but you feel shortchanged. On the other hand, you get the draw of
Matsuzaka for another season, a chance at the title, but you risk
pissing him off, disappointing a large fan base in two countries, and
walking away empty handed next year. Is one more contentious season of
Matsuzaka in Seibu blue and white worth $15 million? Only they can
answer that, if the rumors are true. Again, I doubt it, but anything is
possible. More when it's announced.   

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-9-06 @ 10:04 PM

HBox

11-10-2006, 11:52 AM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2656847" target="_self">Sheffield traded to Detroit for 3 pitchers.</a>

HBox

11-10-2006, 11:55 AM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2656687" target="_blank">Oh, and the Red Sox might have the highest bid for Matsuzaka, with a bid between $38-44 million.</a>

Doctor Z

11-10-2006, 11:57 AM

<hr color="cococo" align="left">HBox wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2656847" target="_self">Sheffield traded to Detroit for 3 pitchers.</a> <hr color="cococo" align="left">
Problem solved.

crb1

11-10-2006, 12:06 PM

HBox wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2656847" target="_self">Sheffield traded to Detroit for 3 pitchers.</a> And they signed him to an extension to boot. That should keep him quiet...until Spring Training 2009.

TheMojoPin

11-10-2006, 01:29 PM

Wow, great trade for the Yankees...potentially awful deal for the Tigers.  Hitters, especially aging ones, seem to die out there.

spoon

11-10-2006, 01:39 PM

"Sanchez, 23, was a combined 10-6 with a 2.53 ERA and 129 strikeouts in 123 innings with Triple-A Toledo and Double-A Erie this year. Whelan, 22, was 4-1 with a 2.67 ERA and 27 saves for Class A Lakeland. Claggett, 22, was 7-2 with an 0.91 ERA and 14 saves for Class A West Michigan."I have to admit I didn't think they would get anything close to this much young pitching for old big-mouthed Shef.  I know Jimmy L. loved him and can keep him under control, but manager can age well, not power hitters off the juice.  A move made by the heart here, not brain.  I'm sure he'll do fine this year but not much more then that.  I don't like him in that or any clubhouse for that matter either.  Good job by the yankees on this one and I'm not happy with it.  Even though the yanks will probably only get one pitcher mlb ready for next year, this surely goes a long way in restocking the farm system again.  I'm sure these three will be cogs in other last minute deals next year.

TheMojoPin

11-10-2006, 02:15 PM

spoon wrote: "Sanchez, 23, was a combined 10-6 with a 2.53 ERA and 129 strikeouts in 123 innings with Triple-A Toledo and Double-A Erie this year. Whelan, 22, was 4-1 with a 2.67 ERA and 27 saves for Class A Lakeland. Claggett, 22, was 7-2 with an 0.91 ERA and 14 saves for Class A West Michigan."I have to admit I didn't think they would get anything close to this much young pitching for old big-mouthed Shef.  I know Jimmy L. loved him and can keep him under control, but manager can age well, not power hitters off the juice.  A move made by the heart here, not brain.  I'm sure he'll do fine this year but not much more then that.  I don't like him in that or any clubhouse for that matter either.  Good job by the yankees on this one and I'm not happy with it.  Even though the yanks will probably only get one pitcher mlb ready for next year, this surely goes a long way in restocking the farm system again.  I'm sure these three will be cogs in other last minute deals next year.   Shit, they could go now.  If I'm the Cubs I'd seriously consider offering Zambrano and a reliever for ARod and Sanchez.

Bulldogcakes

11-10-2006, 04:25 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: Wow, great trade for the Yankees...potentially awful deal for the Tigers. Hitters, especially aging ones, seem to die out there. Tough ballpark. PLus if you look at Sheff's #'s from BEFORE he got hurt last year, he wasn't doing much. Could've just been a slow start, or he could be an aging slugger on the downside of his career. He's 38, has a very violent swing and the key to his success is bat speed. He's also coming off a wrist injury and did little in the few weeks he was back. Plus he's a fucking selfish, nasty pain in the ass who complains constantly. Good riddance. This could be Robbie Alomar (or *cough* Randy Johnson *cough**cough*), where the team dumped him just before he fell off the cliff. Or he could have a good year or two left. To quote Branch Rickey You'd rather trade a guy a year early than a year late. Either way, great deal. He had nowhere to play here and would have left as a free agent if you let the option expire. I hope the can do something similar with Wright, maybe eat the 4 mil buyout of the 7 he's owed and deal him to a team that needs a starter (and who doesn't?). Maybe Atlanta where he had prior success. 

   

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-10-06 @ 8:37 PM

Bulldogcakes

11-10-2006, 04:29 PM

TheMojoPin wrote:Shit, they could go now. If I'm the Cubs I'd seriously consider offering Zambrano and a reliever for ARod and Sanchez. I think any A-Rod deal will be done around January, after the free agent market sorts itself out. But I'll sign for that right now. You guys sign Ramirez yet? <img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/rolleyes.gif" />    

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-10-06 @ 8:38 PM

BandofBrothers

11-10-2006, 04:29 PM

great trade for the yankees! In this years' rankings of the Tigers' system, Sanchez was #5, Whelan #6 and Clagett #13. Sanchez was easily their best pitching prospect available other than Andrew Miller, and Whelan and Clagett are no slouches either. However, I'm really concerned with the Red Sox bid for Matsuzuka.... but I think the initial bid is too high for a reasonable contract that Boras would sign. This leads me to believe that the Sox are solely trying to block the Yankees for one year. Just speculation. 

This message was edited by BandofBrothers on 11-10-06 @ 8:33 PM

TheGameHHH

11-10-2006, 09:01 PM

I'm really happy with this trade because it makes a ton of sense for the ball club. However, I know everybody here likes to shit on Sheff but I've said it before and I'll say it again.....I thought he gave his all for the Yanks, and I loved a quote he went away with, "The only thing I'm disappointed about is I didn't bring them a
world championship, that was my sole reason for
going there. I didn't go for the publicity of being a Yankee. I
went for the big stage to win a ring."

spoon

11-10-2006, 11:16 PM

And failed!  Perfect.  Now the perfect ending will be when he's exposed for steroid abuse and sells out Giambi and Clemens!

crb1

11-11-2006, 03:37 AM

spoon wrote: And failed!  Perfect.  Now the perfect ending will be when he's exposed for steroid abuse and sells out Giambi and Clemens! Can anyone really sell out Giambi at this point?  He's already admitted to using, and a lot of people think his comeback is all thanks to steroids.  And the MLB's testing policy isn't going to remove any doubts, with its loopholes.

spoon

11-11-2006, 01:12 PM

crb1 wrote: spoon wrote: And failed!  Perfect.  Now the perfect ending will be when he's exposed for steroid abuse and sells out Giambi and Clemens! Can anyone really sell out Giambi at this point?  He's already admitted to using, and a lot of people think his comeback is all thanks to steroids.  And the MLB's testing policy isn't going to remove any doubts, with its loopholes.Yes.  If it gets him out of the game for good indeed.  There is a ton of speculation, but no real recent proof based on the testing loopholes you speak of.  I'd just love for him to be the big fall guy in the AL, and Bonds going down hard in the NL.  That is of course if they are still hitting the HGH under the radar of testing.

cougarjake13

11-11-2006, 01:24 PM

crb1

11-11-2006, 02:45 PM

spoon wrote: crb1 wrote: spoon wrote: And failed!  Perfect.  Now the perfect ending will be when he's exposed for steroid abuse and sells out Giambi and Clemens! Can anyone really sell out Giambi at this point?  He's already admitted to using, and a lot of people think his comeback is all thanks to steroids.  And the MLB's testing policy isn't going to remove any doubts, with its loopholes.Yes.  If it gets him out of the game for good indeed.  There is a ton of speculation, but no real recent proof based on the testing loopholes you speak of.  I'd just love for him to be the big fall guy in the AL, and Bonds going down hard in the NL.  That is of course if they are still hitting the HGH under the radar of testing.  I'm not sure Sheff could say anything that could result in Giambi getting in any trouble directly.  Indirectly, he could say something that could lead to an investigation, but I don't see him doing something like that to another player.  He may trash another player, but he wouldn't rat one of them out (again, my opinion based on what I've seen/heard of him).The two main loopholes I've heard are: 1) No testing for HGH. 2) Players are given a cup for a urine sample, and then given 1-4 hours (I've read differing time frames, so I don't honestly know which is correct) to provide a sample.  It's unsupervised time, so they have the opportunity to get a fake sample.  As for Giambi being the fall guy, don't bet on it.  Giambi has already been proven to be guilty of using via his testimony.  They have no proof that Bonds "knowingly" used.  I don't know anyone that actually believes him, but it's all about proof if you're going to discipline/fine/suspend a player. One reason that Giambi has gotten off so easy is that he's well liked and amicable.  He is a friendly player, and Bonds isn't (and never has been).  Writers always go easier on the guys they like, and they seem to like Giambi.  I'm not saying it's fair, but it is a reason that he gets off easier than Bonds.

Bulldogcakes

11-11-2006, 05:36 PM

<a href="http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-spynotes114971577nov11,0,4569297.story?coll=ny-sports-print" target="_self" title="Pettite mulling retirement">Pettite mulling retirement</a>At Joe Torre's Safe at Home Foundation dinner at Chelsea Piers, the
free agent said he is leaning toward retirement. "If I had to make a
decision right now," he said, "it would probably be not to play."  Doesn't surprise me. He said he might retire after his deal with the Astros when he signed it.

Bulldogcakes

11-11-2006, 05:39 PM

<a href="http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.orioles11nov11,0,6759683.story?coll=bal-sports-baseball" target="_self" title="Wright might be next">Wright might be next</a> The Orioles have had talks with the New York Yankees about acquiring
30-year-old pitcher Jaret Wright, according to an industry source. The
Orioles likely would have to part with a reliever in return for Wright,
who has fallen out of favor in New York after two inconsistent seasons.The Orioles have had talks with the New York Yankees about acquiring
30-year-old pitcher Jaret Wright, according to an industry source. The
Orioles likely would have to part with a reliever in return for Wright,
who has fallen out of favor in New York after two inconsistent seasons. Whatever you get for him is gravy. I'll take a chip they can turn into a mid season deal next year. Beats letting him walk for nothing.

BoondockSaint

11-12-2006, 04:50 AM

MLB officially announces that Yankees are the high bidder for Matsuzaka.

Bulldogcakes

11-12-2006, 05:02 AM

BoondockSaint wrote: MLB officially announces that Yankees are the high bidder for Matsuzaka.  Boonie, I dont know if you're just bustin balls but the link doesn't work and its not on ESPN or FOXs websites.  <blockquote />

Bulldogcakes

11-12-2006, 05:05 AM

<a title="YES! Wright to the O's" target="_self" href="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/470599p-396085c.html">YES! Wright to the O's</a> 
The Yankees had Wright under contract for 2007 for $7 million, but had
an option to buy him out for $4 million. The Bombers aren't going to
bring Wright back, but will manage to get something for him by trading
him to the Orioles. They'll receive a top prospect or a player on
Baltimore's 25-man roster - in which case the Yankees would pay $4
million of Wright's salary. Expectations are a reliever off their roster. Who, I dont know. But they have some good young arms. Yanks get <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7729" target="_self" title="Chris Britton">Chris Britton</a> in return Righty specialist .186 BA va Righties. Good control, 23 years old. Big motherfucker (6'3" 278lbs yikes!)Good move. Some scoutingThe big righthander has been one of the more dominant relievers during
his four years in the Orioles system. In 2005, he struck out 110 in
78.2 innings. His WHiP was an impressive 0.89 as he blew through the
Single A Carolina League with the Frederick Keys. Despite his size,
it's Britton's curve which is his out pitch. His fastball and slider
are serviceable and he's working on a changeup too. But, it's the yakker that has been his meal ticket to the Bigs. That
journey has included a couple of lengthy outages injured, including the
whole of 2003. He plays with a metal plate in his head, courtesy of a
line drive in 2002. His size makes health and conditioning an issue.
That aside, the O's like the look of the big man. some more "You can be
a two-pitch pitcher and do something like that, but if you're a
straight fastball guy and you're not throwing more than 96 or 97 mph,
then you better have something else to get them off your heater." ...
His ratios look solid, but he's been a homer-lucky flyball pitcher thus
far ... Doesn't have a great fastball, the curveball is why he's in the bigs.  <a title="YES! Wright to the O's" target="_self" href="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/470599p-396085c.html"></a>

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-12-06 @ 11:35 AM

Bulldogcakes

11-12-2006, 06:35 AM

<a title="Some stuff on the prospects picked up in the Sheff deal" target="_self" href="http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/humberto_sanchez/index.html">Some stuff on the prospects picked up in the Sheff deal</a>   <h3 class="entry-header">Tigers Acquire Gary Sheffield</h3>

<a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/11/10/sheffield.tigers/index.html">Jon Heyman reports</a> that the Tigers have acquired Gary Sheffield for <a href="http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Humberto-Sanchez.shtml">Humberto Sanchez</a> and two Class A pitchers, <a href="http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/W/Kevin-Whelan.shtml">Kevin Whelan</a> and <a href="http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Anthony-Claggett.shtml">Anthony Claggett</a>.

It's a superb deal for New York at first glance, as Sanchez has
great stuff and profiles as at least a middle-rotation starter for
years to come. <a href="http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5475">Baseball Prospectus's Kevin Goldstein</a>
ranked Sanchez as the 11th best right-handed starting prospect in the
game, holding him back only because of elbow concerns. The Yankees
should have young guys comprising 60% of their rotation by the end of
'07.

And Whelan, if things break right, could be setting up Mariano Rivera by 2008. The 23 year-old throws four different fastballs.   <a href="http://baseball.about.com/od/topprospects/a/top250906_2.htm" target="_self" title="lists">Lists</a> have him ranked AHEAD of Phillip Hughes for the top prospects in all of baseball.  

13. Humberto Sanchez, SP, <a href="http://baseball.about.com/od/americanleaguecentral/p/tigersprofile.htm">Detroit Tigers</a> (+5):
Sanchez began the season at AA and was 5-3 in 11 starts with a 1.76 ERA
and a 1.03 WHIP. He struggled a bit after being promoted to AAA as he
was bothered by an elbow injury. Sanchez went 5-3 in nine starts at AAA
with a 3.86 ERA and a 1.36 WHIP. Sanchez could make the Tigers’ staff
out of Spring Training and make an impact much like Joel Zumaya did this season.

 <blockquote /> 

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-12-06 @ 10:40 AM

Tenbatsuzen

11-12-2006, 08:07 AM

With Jaret Wright gone, the Yankees are safe to watch on HDTV again.

Kevin

11-12-2006, 08:17 AM

I can not believe we keep getting good young prospect pitchers for our <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2658959" target="_self">Junk</a> <table width="100%" border="0"><tr><td class="tablexlrg bi">#52 Chris Britton | RP</td><td> </td><td align="right"> </td></tr></table><div /><table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="789" border="0"><tr class="tablesm" valign="top"><td align="center"><img alt="" src="http://espn-ak.starwave.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/7729.jpg" border="0" /></td><td>*>Proper Name: Christopher Daniel Britton <div />*>Born: December 16, 1982 *>Hollywood, FL <div /><div />*>Height: 6-3 <div />*>Weight: 278 lbs. <div />*>Age: 23 <div />*>Pronounced: N/A <div /></td><td>*>Bats: Right <div />*>Throws: Right <div />*>Pos: RP <div />*>Experience: 0 years <div />*>2006 Salary: $N/A <div />*>College: N/A <div /></td><td>* class="bi">FANTASY <div />* class="bi">Percent Owned (Week +/-): <div />*>MLB: 0.4% (+0.1%) <div />*>AL Only: 62.1% (+8.4%) <div />* class="bi">Avg. Draft Position: <div />*>MLB: .0 <div />*>AL Only: UD <div /></td></tr></table><table border="0"><tr><td>* class="tablemed">REC 0-2 | SV 1 | ERA 3.35 | WHIP 1.17         <div /></td></tr></table><div />* <div /><div /><div /><div />At 23, That is pretty good . Less than a hit per inn, decent era. I would have given Wright away for a bag of balls.

This message was edited by Kevin on 11-12-06 @ 12:23 PM

Tenbatsuzen

11-12-2006, 08:22 AM

Remember, we got Abreu and Lidle for not a lot either.  Cashman is very persuasive.

outlawfrank

11-12-2006, 09:04 AM

I am very disappointed the Tigers get nervous before it even has snowed.  They trade three pitchers two of which will probably be in the majors next season for a 38 year old nuisance who Detroit held to just one hit in the ALDS.  Nice trade New York, your problem is now ours and I am glad we could help replenish those young arms.

Crippler

11-12-2006, 11:10 AM

As much as I love most of his moves, I wish Cashman could persuade someone to give up a left-handed pitchers, for the love of God.

Doctor Z

11-12-2006, 11:24 AM

I really like the approach. We're dumping our aging failures for young pitching prospects. Whether we use these guys as trade bait, or they become good Yankee pitchers, we get better either way.

cougarjake13

11-12-2006, 11:33 AM

Doctor_Z wrote: I really like the approach. We're dumping our aging failures for young pitching prospects. Whether we use these guys as trade bait, or they become good Yankee pitchers, we get better either way. yeh for once they're doing it the right way and maybe it'll work out in a few years when they're a team again like the late 90's instead of a free agent all star team

spoon

11-12-2006, 02:33 PM

Yah but they shouldn't have all these big name free agents to trade in the first place if the league had any balls at all.

cougarjake13

11-12-2006, 02:39 PM

spoon wrote: Yah but they shouldn't have all these big name free agents to trade in the first place if the league had any balls at all. no ones forcing these teams to take these overpriced fucks so who's to blame now ??

crb1

11-12-2006, 05:24 PM

Kevin wrote: I can not believe we keep getting good young prospect pitchers for our <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2658959" target="_self">Junk</a> <table width="100%" border="0"><tr><td class="tablexlrg bi">#52 Chris Britton | RP</td><td> </td><td align="right"> </td></tr></table>* /> <table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="789" border="0"><tr class="tablesm" valign="top"><td align="center"><img alt="" src="http://espn-ak.starwave.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/7729.jpg" border="0" /></td><td>*>Proper Name: Christopher Daniel Britton * />*>Born: December 16, 1982 *>Hollywood, FL * />* />*>Height: 6-3 * />*>Weight: 278 lbs. * />*>Age: 23 * />*>Pronounced: N/A * /></td><td>*>Bats: Right * />*>Throws: Right * />*>Pos: RP * />*>Experience: 0 years * />*>2006 Salary: $N/A * />*>College: N/A * /></td><td>* class="bi">FANTASY * />* class="bi">Percent Owned (Week +/-): * />*>MLB: 0.4% (+0.1%) * />*>AL Only: 62.1% (+8.4%) * />* class="bi">Avg. Draft Position: * />*>MLB: .0 * />*>AL Only: UD * /></td></tr></table><table border="0"><tr><td>* class="tablemed">REC 0-2 | SV 1 | ERA 3.35 | WHIP 1.17         * /></td></tr></table>* />* * />* />* />* /> At 23, That is pretty good . Less than a hit per inn, decent era. I would have given Wright away for a bag of balls.This message was edited by Kevin on 11-12-06 @ 12:23 PM I like his Bartolo Colon-esque build too.  6-3, 278 lbs.  That sounds about right.  His numbers in limited action look good, but they may want to keep him off the mound during day games in August to keep heart failure at bay.

cougarjake13

11-12-2006, 05:49 PM

crb1 wrote: Kevin wrote: I can not believe we keep getting good young prospect pitchers for our <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2658959" target="_self">Junk</a> <table width="100%" border="0"><tr><td class="tablexlrg bi">#52 Chris Britton | RP</td><td> </td><td align="right"> </td></tr></table>* /> <table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="789" border="0"><tr class="tablesm" valign="top"><td align="center"><img alt="" src="http://espn-ak.starwave.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/7729.jpg" border="0" /></td><td>*>Proper Name: Christopher Daniel Britton * />*>Born: December 16, 1982 *>Hollywood, FL * />* />*>Height: 6-3 * />*>Weight: 278 lbs. * />*>Age: 23 * />*>Pronounced: N/A * /></td><td>*>Bats: Right * />*>Throws: Right * />*>Pos: RP * />*>Experience: 0 years * />*>2006 Salary: $N/A * />*>College: N/A * /></td><td>* class="bi">FANTASY * />* class="bi">Percent Owned (Week +/-): * />*>MLB: 0.4% (+0.1%) * />*>AL Only: 62.1% (+8.4%) * />* class="bi">Avg. Draft Position: * />*>MLB: .0 * />*>AL Only: UD * /></td></tr></table><table border="0"><tr><td>* class="tablemed">REC 0-2 | SV 1 | ERA 3.35 | WHIP 1.17         * /></td></tr></table>* />* * />* />* />* /> At 23, That is pretty good . Less than a hit per inn, decent era. I would have given Wright away for a bag of balls.This message was edited by Kevin on 11-12-06 @ 12:23 PM I like his Bartolo Colon-esque build too.  6-3, 278 lbs.  That sounds about right.  His numbers in limited action look good, but they may want to keep him off the mound during day games in August to keep heart failure at bay.damn maybe the giants should look into making him a offensive lineman

Kevin

11-12-2006, 05:52 PM

False start #77

TheMojoPin

11-12-2006, 08:06 PM

crb1 wrote: Kevin wrote: I can not believe we keep getting good young prospect pitchers for our <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2658959" target="_self">Junk</a> <table width="100%" border="0"><tr><td class="tablexlrg bi">#52 Chris Britton | RP</td><td> </td><td align="right"> </td></tr></table>* /> <table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="789" border="0"><tr class="tablesm" valign="top"><td align="center"><img alt="" src="http://espn-ak.starwave.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/7729.jpg" border="0" /></td><td>*>Proper Name: Christopher Daniel Britton * />*>Born: December 16, 1982 *>Hollywood, FL * />* />*>Height: 6-3 * />*>Weight: 278 lbs. * />*>Age: 23 * />*>Pronounced: N/A * /></td><td>*>Bats: Right * />*>Throws: Right * />*>Pos: RP * />*>Experience: 0 years * />*>2006 Salary: $N/A * />*>College: N/A * /></td><td>* class="bi">FANTASY * />* class="bi">Percent Owned (Week +/-): * />*>MLB: 0.4% (+0.1%) * />*>AL Only: 62.1% (+8.4%) * />* class="bi">Avg. Draft Position: * />*>MLB: .0 * />*>AL Only: UD * /></td></tr></table><table border="0"><tr><td>* class="tablemed">REC 0-2 | SV 1 | ERA 3.35 | WHIP 1.17         * /></td></tr></table>* />* * />* />* />* /> At 23, That is pretty good . Less than a hit per inn, decent era. I would have given Wright away for a bag of balls.This message was edited by Kevin on 11-12-06 @ 12:23 PM I like his Bartolo Colon-esque build too.  6-3, 278 lbs.  That sounds about right.  His numbers in limited action look good, but they may want to keep him off the mound during day games in August to keep heart failure at bay.Heh...fat pitchers out of Baltimore haven't worked out too great for the Yanks thus far.Oh, wait...except for that "Baby Ruth" guy...

Crippler

11-13-2006, 07:22 AM

cougarjake13 wrote: crb1 wrote: I like his Bartolo Colon-esque build too.  6-3, 278 lbs.  That sounds about right.  His numbers in limited action look good, but they may want to keep him off the mound during day games in August to keep heart failure at bay.damn maybe the giants should look into making him a offensive lineman...or as a back-up QB.

cougarjake13

11-13-2006, 11:04 AM

Crippler wrote: cougarjake13 wrote: crb1 wrote: I like his Bartolo Colon-esque build too.  6-3, 278 lbs.  That sounds about right.  His numbers in limited action look good, but they may want to keep him off the mound during day games in August to keep heart failure at bay.damn maybe the giants should look into making him a offensive lineman...or as a back-up QB.nah we already have one, two would just be crazy talk

Bulldogcakes

11-13-2006, 03:58 PM

TheMojoPin wrote:Heh...fat pitchers out of Baltimore haven't worked out too great for the Yanks thus far.Oh, wait...except for that "Baby Ruth" guy...  Like David Wells? Mike Mussina? Who exactly is this Baltimore pitcher that stunk it up as a Yank?

WRESTLINGFAN

11-13-2006, 04:17 PM

Moose close to a 2 year extension <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15701038/">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15701038/</a>

crb1

11-13-2006, 05:54 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  Like David Wells? Mike Mussina? Who exactly is this Baltimore pitcher that stunk it up as a Yank? My guess is Mojo's referring to Sidney Ponson.

TheMojoPin

11-13-2006, 06:29 PM

crb1 wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote:  Like David Wells? Mike Mussina? Who exactly is this Baltimore pitcher that stunk it up as a Yank? My guess is Mojo's referring to Sidney Ponson.  Si.I guess on BDC's side of the equator Mussina is somehow considered "fat."  Though I did forget that they got Wells from the O's.  Christ, what is with Baltimore and disgusting fat fucks on the mound?

cougarjake13

11-14-2006, 02:20 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: crb1 wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote:  Like David Wells? Mike Mussina? Who exactly is this Baltimore pitcher that stunk it up as a Yank? My guess is Mojo's referring to Sidney Ponson.  Si.I guess on BDC's side of the equator Mussina is somehow considered "fat."  Though I did forget that they got Wells from the O's.  Christ, what is with Baltimore and disgusting fat fucks on the mound?wells was a free agent in 96 when he signed with the yanks, he team prior to that was the o'sand his 2nd time around they got him as a free agent again his last team prior to that was the white soxas for the fat fucks it must be the crab cakes

Bulldogcakes

11-14-2006, 04:06 PM

TheMojoPin wrote:Si.I guess on BDC's side of the equator <img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/thumbup.gif" />Mussina is somehow considered "fat." Though I did forget that they got Wells from the O's. Christ, what is with Baltimore and disgusting fat fucks on the mound?    Sydney Ponson? He was a Yank for about 2 weeks. Speaking of Yanks/Os deals, I think Wright will do well being reunited with his favorite pitching coach Leo Mazzone.

Doctor Z

11-15-2006, 12:45 AM

Moose: 2 years, 22 mil.

spoon

11-15-2006, 01:34 AM

This is the one problem with the yanks not using up a ton of money on the Japanese prospect.  Now they're saying the Mets were the second highest bid on the guy, with no news on where the yanks came in.  I have to say I not only respect the fact that the yanks probably made a much more reasonable bid him, but they've also put together a really good off-season too.  I'm not as big on the Wright deal bc he did great for a #4/#5.  Way better than average you have to realize it.  And since they're picking up some of his salary it isn't even a salary dump.  Also, he'll surely gel in Balt. again with Leo as BDC said so it's an even better move for the O's.  Still, nothing crazy about the move and it made sense for both teams if the yanks fill the role vacated with something perceived better or who can pitch deeper.  But I doubt they needed to pull him in the 5th all year like they did.  It was like he was coming off an injury all fucking year long.Now the sign and trade with Shef was not only great, but blew me away in how much they netted in the move.  Three high to mid-level pitching prospects who are low paid and ready to make the jump to the majors or at least getting closer.  This gives the yanks more depth in the minors, more young arms to back their aging rotation, and more chips for moves that they always make down the road.  Based on the fact that they added pitching depth (4 pitchers for one pitcher and one aging OF), moved a clubhouse cancer and showed some baseball sense and composure I'm pretty impressed for the first time in a long time with the way the yanks are handling themselves.  Perhaps it's bc Cashman is making more of the calls these days as George is having health issues which keeps the TB brain trust at bay as well.  Who knows but I'm impressed of late with a team I'll always hate, but perhaps respect a little more going forward if they continue to handle themselves in this nature.  I'm starting to think they truly hit their spending limits over the last few years and realize they'll have to be a little more frugal and this may set up the stage for the league to set some limits high and low on all teams.  Perhaps I'm just dreaming or being idealistic, but the yankees have been one of the biggest obstacles to getting something passed.  Yet the MLBPA union would fight it all the way.

BoondockSaint

11-15-2006, 01:47 AM

From Bill Madden's column today:The bidding on Matsuzaka went like this: Red Sox: $51.1 million, Mets: $38 million, Yankees: $32 million, Rangers: $30 million, Cubs: $25 million.

spoon

11-15-2006, 02:02 AM

BoondockSaint wrote: From Bill Madden's column today: The bidding on Matsuzaka went like this: Red Sox: $51.1 million, Mets: $38 million, Yankees: $32 million, Rangers: $30 million, Cubs: $25 million.  I think it would have been a great move/statement if the Royals or Pirates put in bids a around 1 million or so to just fuck with the system and waste some of their time.  If I worked for one of those organizations, or the Jays for that matter, I'd put in a bid for something like 69 Yen.  At least the press would get a laugh out of it.It's like those magazines you get from the college you graduated which gives alumni updates.  It's always shit like John McCumber '97 has made partner of such and such lawfirm, Sally Bestoy '02 happily married John Miller '01, or Bill Hinks '98 and family welcomed son Dillion to the fold.  I could give two shits so I wrote in to my paper and submitted my own "alumni update".   It was something like this:  <span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: 'times new roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'times new roman'; mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-fareast-language: en-us; mso-bidi-language: ar-sa">Jason Kishbaugh ’97 and girlfriend are pleased to announce their recent acquisition of a really nice four-slice toaster oven. “Now that we’ve been dating for a few years, and our dogs are getting older, we decided that it was time to say goodbye to the old two-slicer. We’re really happy to be moving forward, and look forward to many years of toast together.”

crb1

11-15-2006, 04:17 AM

spoon wrote: BoondockSaint wrote: From Bill Madden's column today: The bidding on Matsuzaka went like this: Red Sox: $51.1 million, Mets: $38 million, Yankees: $32 million, Rangers: $30 million, Cubs: $25 million.  I think it would have been a great move/statement if the Royals or Pirates put in bids a around 1 million or so to just fuck with the system and waste some of their time.  If I worked for one of those organizations, or the Jays for that matter, I'd put in a bid for something like 69 Yen.  At least the press would get a laugh out of it.Thanks for the breakdown.  And I heard that the Devil Rays and someone else (Pirates maybe?) actually did submit a bid.  I'll have to try and find the link, but they did it just on the off chance the big market teams had their bids removed for trying to work a side deal with Seibu.

This message was edited by crb1 on 11-15-06 @ 8:17 AM

Kevin

11-16-2006, 01:04 PM

spoon wrote: This is the one problem with the yanks not using up a ton of money on the Japanese prospect.  Now they're saying the Mets were the second highest bid on the guy, with no news on where the yanks came in.  I have to say I not only respect the fact that the yanks probably made a much more reasonable bid him, but they've also put together a really good off-season too.  I'm not as big on the Wright deal bc he did great for a #4/#5.  Way better than average you have to realize it.  And since they're picking up some of his salary it isn't even a salary dump.  Also, he'll surely gel in Balt. again with Leo as BDC said so it's an even better move for the O's.  Still, nothing crazy about the move and it made sense for both teams if the yanks fill the role vacated with something perceived better or who can pitch deeper.  But I doubt they needed to pull him in the 5th all year like they did.  It was like he was coming off an injury all fucking year long.Now the sign and trade with Shef was not only great, but blew me away in how much they netted in the move.  Three high to mid-level pitching prospects who are low paid and ready to make the jump to the majors or at least getting closer.  This gives the yanks more depth in the minors, more young arms to back their aging rotation, and more chips for moves that they always make down the road.  Based on the fact that they added pitching depth (4 pitchers for one pitcher and one aging OF), moved a clubhouse cancer and showed some baseball sense and composure I'm pretty impressed for the first time in a long time with the way the yanks are handling themselves.  Perhaps it's bc Cashman is making more of the calls these days as George is having health issues which keeps the TB brain trust at bay as well.  Who knows but I'm impressed of late with a team I'll always hate, but perhaps respect a little more going forward if they continue to handle themselves in this nature.  I'm starting to think they truly hit their spending limits over the last few years and realize they'll have to be a little more frugal and this may set up the stage for the league to set some limits high and low on all teams.  Perhaps I'm just dreaming or being idealistic, but the yankees have been one of the biggest obstacles to getting something passed.  Yet the MLBPA union would fight it all the way. Nice work Spoon, 100 % agreed. Cashman is now completely running things in the org. Those jackasses in Tampa have very little to no say anymore. Cash demanded it or he was not coming back. Most of those jump the gun stupid moves were mostly done by George's BAFOON lackeys in Tampa. They only gave a shit about making a splash and brining it to George saying, look who we got, we got the "Big guy" They did not give a shit if the player fit or not. Cash is more set on building a team for the future and, dare i say, lowering payroll. Even though i (Homer) wanted Matsazuka, 51.1 mil is just ridicules. I love what cash has done these past 2 years. He did not give up the farm for an Abrau when everybody got hurt. He waited until the price went down and then made the deal. The old Tampa baboon brass would gave Hughes and Tabata for Abrau or Lee as soon as Matsui got hurt.

Don Stugots

11-16-2006, 01:22 PM

Kevin wrote: spoon wrote: This is the one problem with the yanks not using up a ton of money on the Japanese prospect. Now they're saying the Mets were the second highest bid on the guy, with no news on where the yanks came in. I have to say I not only respect the fact that the yanks probably made a much more reasonable bid him, but they've also put together a really good off-season too. I'm not as big on the Wright deal bc he did great for a #4/#5. Way better than average you have to realize it. And since they're picking up some of his salary it isn't even a salary dump. Also, he'll surely gel in Balt. again with Leo as BDC said so it's an even better move for the O's. Still, nothing crazy about the move and it made sense for both teams if the yanks fill the role vacated with something perceived better or who can pitch deeper. But I doubt they needed to pull him in the 5th all year like they did. It was like he was coming off an injury all fucking year long.Now the sign and trade with Shef was not only great, but blew me away in how much they netted in the move. Three high to mid-level pitching prospects who are low paid and ready to make the jump to the majors or at least getting closer. This gives the yanks more depth in the minors, more young arms to back their aging rotation, and more chips for moves that they always make down the road. Based on the fact that they added pitching depth (4 pitchers for one pitcher and one aging OF), moved a clubhouse cancer and showed some baseball sense and composure I'm pretty impressed for the first time in a long time with the way the yanks are handling themselves. Perhaps it's bc Cashman is making more of the calls these days as George is having health issues which keeps the TB brain trust at bay as well. Who knows but I'm impressed of late with a team I'll always hate, but perhaps respect a little more going forward if they continue to handle themselves in this nature. I'm starting to think they truly hit their spending limits over the last few years and realize they'll have to be a little more frugal and this may set up the stage for the league to set some limits high and low on all teams. Perhaps I'm just dreaming or being idealistic, but the yankees have been one of the biggest obstacles to getting something passed. Yet the MLBPA union would fight it all the way. Nice work Spoon, 100 % agreed. Cashman is now completely running things in the org. Those jackasses in Tampa have very little to no say anymore. Cash demanded it or he was not coming back. Most of those jump the gun stupid moves were mostly done by George's BAFOON lackeys in Tampa. They only gave a shit about making a splash and brining it to George saying, look who we got, we got the "Big guy" They did not give a shit if the player fit or not. Cash is more set on building a team for the future and, dare i say, lowering payroll. Even though i (Homer) wanted Matsazuka, 51.1 mil is just ridicules. I love what cash has done these past 2 years. He did not give up the farm for an Abrau when everybody got hurt. He waited until the price went down and then made the deal. The old Tampa baboon brass would gave Hughes and Tabata for Abrau or Lee as soon as Matsui got hurt.   i am glad to see Cashmen making moves that make sense of opposed to The Boss and his hemroids in tampa dealing off the cuff.  I know i am the same on my job, build on the fly, but i never panick, these guys shit the bed regularly.

Bulldogcakes

11-16-2006, 02:22 PM

<a title="The view from Japan on the Matsuzaka signing. " target="_self" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=2662960">The view from Japan on the Matsuzaka signing.</a>  not everyone was pleased.
Hall of Fame catcher Katsuya Nomura uttered a common complaint,
according to The Nikkan Sports, that Matsuzaka's departure was just
another nail in the coffin of the Japanese game.
"Six billion yen, that's amazing," the sports daily quoted
Nomura as saying on its Web site. "Still, I can't just go along with
the crowd and be happy about that. I can't offer congratulations from
my heart. 
"The level of Japanese pro baseball is going to continue to decline."

The fear is a real one.
   Interesting read. Thats a side of the story you dont often hear about.  
According to Jiji Press, the fee for Matsuzaka's rights was nearly equal to three times the Lions' entire payroll for 2006.  Yes Spoon, they are the little guys. <a title="The view from Japan on the Matsuzaka signing. " target="_self" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=2662960"></a>     

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-16-06 @ 6:22 PM

spoon

11-16-2006, 06:15 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  <a title="The view from Japan on the Matsuzaka signing. " href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=2662960" target="_self">The view from Japan on the Matsuzaka signing.</a>  not everyone was pleased. Hall of Fame catcher Katsuya Nomura uttered a common complaint, according to The Nikkan Sports, that Matsuzaka's departure was just another nail in the coffin of the Japanese game. "Six billion yen, that's amazing," the sports daily quoted Nomura as saying on its Web site. "Still, I can't just go along with the crowd and be happy about that. I can't offer congratulations from my heart. "The level of Japanese pro baseball is going to continue to decline." The fear is a real one.   Interesting read. Thats a side of the story you dont often hear about.   According to Jiji Press, the fee for Matsuzaka's rights was nearly equal to three times the Lions' entire payroll for 2006.  Yes Spoon, they are the little guys. <a title="The view from Japan on the Matsuzaka signing. " href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=2662960" target="_self"></a>     This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-16-06 @ 6:22 PM I could give a shit about another country's league why can't you see it's not a valid point?  Should we worry about the CFL when big money NFL teams need a backup QB?  Fuck no.  I care about the dynamics of MLB and the setup/rules of this fucking league.  It just so happens that bc of players coming here from Japan hurt their league and MLB didn't want to alienate that market but expand on it, they established a procedure that is out of wack and abused the other way now.  Perhaps it has evened out now, but surely has to get fixed.  As for the payroll of the Lions, it's pretty close to TB and Florida too yet these two play in the league with the Mets, yanks, sox and more.  The Japanese leagues have always protected their league well and it's their job and I don't blame them, but asking me to give a shit if someone wants to play somewhere else, in essence moving to the biggest baseball stage in the world is just plain stupid.  Stop typing condscending statements as you did above without making one valid point again.  Also stop trying to act as if you care about the Japanese "little guy" when in fact you don't care about them in this league and haven't a clue where they rank in their own league.  Call Rich0404 and perhaps he'll do some research for you since you seem incapable to do it yourself unless it has yank spin on it.  Let's be honest, you're only involved in this topic bc the yanks can't just simply outbid everyone else in the international market any longer.  If the 30+ million bid stood you'd be on the other side of the fence but is it any less of a problem for MLB at that point?  Not at all.

crb1

11-17-2006, 04:20 AM

spoon wrote: This is the one problem with the yanks not using up a ton of money on the Japanese prospect.  Now they're saying the Mets were the second highest bid on the guy, with no news on where the yanks came in.  I have to say I not only respect the fact that the yanks probably made a much more reasonable bid him, but they've also put together a really good off-season too.  I'm not as big on the Wright deal bc he did great for a #4/#5.  Way better than average you have to realize it.  And since they're picking up some of his salary it isn't even a salary dump.  Also, he'll surely gel in Balt. again with Leo as BDC said so it's an even better move for the O's.  Still, nothing crazy about the move and it made sense for both teams if the yanks fill the role vacated with something perceived better or who can pitch deeper.  But I doubt they needed to pull him in the 5th all year like they did.  It was like he was coming off an injury all fucking year long.Now the sign and trade with Shef was not only great, but blew me away in how much they netted in the move.  Three high to mid-level pitching prospects who are low paid and ready to make the jump to the majors or at least getting closer.  This gives the yanks more depth in the minors, more young arms to back their aging rotation, and more chips for moves that they always make down the road.  Based on the fact that they added pitching depth (4 pitchers for one pitcher and one aging OF), moved a clubhouse cancer and showed some baseball sense and composure I'm pretty impressed for the first time in a long time with the way the yanks are handling themselves.  Perhaps it's bc Cashman is making more of the calls these days as George is having health issues which keeps the TB brain trust at bay as well.  Who knows but I'm impressed of late with a team I'll always hate, but perhaps respect a little more going forward if they continue to handle themselves in this nature.  I'm starting to think they truly hit their spending limits over the last few years and realize they'll have to be a little more frugal and this may set up the stage for the league to set some limits high and low on all teams.  Perhaps I'm just dreaming or being idealistic, but the yankees have been one of the biggest obstacles to getting something passed.  Yet the MLBPA union would fight it all the way. Agree with Spoon here.  Personally, I grew weary of the wasted millions on FAs over the past few years, when it was obvious they were the calls of Steinbrenner who was being influenced by his moronic cronies who just know names, not talent.  I think Steinbrenner has little to do in day-to-day operations any more, which is great for the Yankees.  Although, I fear one last bold move to show he's still "the Boss."  Once his son-in-law officially takes over I expect to see Cashman hang around for a while and the big, bad contracts to go away.  The Yankees may have been an obstacle before (they voted against the last deal but for the new one), I think the Union is the bigger obstacle.  They are opposed to a cap, floor, or a more strict form of luxury tax.  However, since the league as a whole is doing well (apparently they're making a ton of cash off MLB.com), I wouldn't expect to see much change in the near future.

spoon

11-17-2006, 04:56 AM

Now this is just getting fucking scary.  Kind of like Final Destination with death possibly really after this guy or another who was supposed to be on the plane.  Read the article and about this Watkins guy too.  If I was him, I'd be buying a recreational camper for all trips from here on in.  Fuck flying on those little planes.<a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6180716">http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6180716</a>

Bulldogcakes

11-17-2006, 03:29 PM

spoon wrote:I could give a shit about another country's league why can't you see it's not a valid point? Should we worry about the CFL when big money NFL teams need a backup QB? Fuck no. I care about the dynamics of MLB and the setup/rules of this fucking league. It just so happens that bc of players coming here from Japan hurt their league and MLB didn't want to alienate that market but expand on it, they established a procedure that is out of wack and abused the other way now. Perhaps it has evened out now, but surely has to get fixed.   So you admit your problem with the system isn't based on any principled position you have, its just who's ox is being gored. So I suppose if we could just get a set of rules that would benefit the Blue Jays, you'd be happy with the system. And you go around calling everyone else myopic.  As for the payroll of the Lions, it's pretty close to TB and Florida
too yet these two play in the league with the Mets, yanks, sox and
more. The Japanese leagues have always protected their league well and
it's their job and I don't blame them, but asking me to give a shit if
someone wants to play somewhere else, in essence moving to the biggest
baseball stage in the world is just plain stupid. Stop typing
condscending statements as you did above without making one valid point
again.If you read anything condescending into my posts, I'll tell you that wasn't what I was thinking when I typed it. Figure out for yourself why you read it that way, cause that wasn't the way I wrote it. If I didn't think you could hold up your end of a debate, I wouldn't respond at all.  I agree totally that players should get to play wherever they want, and maximize their earnings if thats important to them. If I was a player, I'd want that right. They do owe some service time to the teams that develop their talents, but after that they should go where ever they want. I think what bothers fans in small markets is players leaving for more $$. I have ideas on how to solve that, but I'll save that for some other time.   Also stop trying to act as if you care about the Japanese
"little guy" when in fact you don't care about them in this league and
haven't a clue where they rank in their own league. Call Rich0404 and
perhaps he'll do some research for you since you seem incapable to do
it yourself unless it has yank spin on it. Let's be honest, you're only
involved in this topic bc the yanks can't just simply outbid everyone
else in the international market any longer. If the 30+ million bid
stood you'd be on the other side of the fence but is it any less of a
problem for MLB at that point? Not at all. Spoon, when a team offers 3 times their payroll for one player, you cant deny this is a David and Goliath story. We keep arguing this same point over and over, and were not getting anywhere but I'll do it one more time. I think ALL these numbers are INSANE for a guy who's never pitched in the bigs. If the Yanks won the bid, they'd be looking at 20 mil per year. The Red Sox are looking at 25-30 mil per year, depending on whether he signs for 3 or 4 years. And the scouts most fimiliar with him think he'll be anywhere from good to very good. I can sign Suppon at a third of the cost for that. Look at the move the Devils rays made for Iwamura, 4.5 mil winning bid. Ichiro's was 14 mil. If that doesn't tell you how unbeliveably extreme and out of whack this bid is, I dont know what will. And that's my whole point.

Doctor Z

11-17-2006, 04:32 PM

I don't know if this belongs in the Knicks thread or the Yankees thread, but it's interesting nonetheless... I am watching the Knick game on MSG and they're in Miami.  MSG focused a camera on A-Rod, who is in attendence at the game tonight.  (He was wearing a really gay sequined Rolling Stones shirt, but that's neither here nor there.)  When A-Rod noticed the camera on him, he glared sneeringly into the camera, shaking his head, and waving away the camera.  C'mon dude... you're a high-profile athlete at a sporting event.  They're not exactly invading your privacy by showing viewers that you're at the game.

Bulldogcakes

11-17-2006, 04:39 PM

<a href="http://www.nypost.com/seven/11172006/sports/yankees/shea_its_so_yankees_george_king.htm" target="_blank">Yanks Eyeing Hillenbrand</a>According to industry sources, the Yankees have Hillenbrand high on their list. Their plan is to use Jason Giambi as a DH, thus creating a need for a first baseman who isn't a left-handed hitter because the Yankees have lefty swingers Bobby Abreu, Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui, Robinson Cano and Giambi in the lineup. That's fine by me, as long as he's OK with the playing time. I thought that Gibbons was the one who made an ass of himself in that situation, and that impression was further proved when he later challenged another player (Ted Lilly) to a fight last year.

spoon

11-18-2006, 11:33 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: <a href="http://www.nypost.com/seven/11172006/sports/yankees/shea_its_so_yankees_george_king.htm" target="_blank">Yanks Eyeing Hillenbrand</a>According to industry sources, the Yankees have Hillenbrand high on their list. Their plan is to use Jason Giambi as a DH, thus creating a need for a first baseman who isn't a left-handed hitter because the Yankees have lefty swingers Bobby Abreu, Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui, Robinson Cano and Giambi in the lineup. That's fine by me, as long as he's OK with the playing time. I thought that Gibbons was the one who made an ass of himself in that situation, and that impression was further proved when he later challenged another player (Ted Lilly) to a fight last year.

Kevin

11-18-2006, 12:07 PM

Best and most insightful comments you have ever made in a Yankee thread, Spoon, great, great work. <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif" border="0" alt="Cool" title="Cool" /> 

This message was edited by Kevin on 11-18-06 @ 4:08 PM

Bulldogcakes

11-18-2006, 04:18 PM

Thats been happening to me, too. I think its typing in white for some reason. If I change the font color to black, It works. Weird.

Kevin

11-18-2006, 05:01 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Thats been happening to me, too. I think its typing in white for some reason. If I change the font color to black, It works. Weird. This board has a lot of probs (the site not posters) I get that shit alot too and for some reason some people think other people post what some other poster has written. Something is not right.

Justice4all

11-18-2006, 08:35 PM

SUCK it Kevin you douche licking kid-toucher!  And BDC molests his own puppies.  You wondered why he breeds then?  Well, question it no longer!

Kevin

11-18-2006, 08:44 PM

Justice4all wrote: SUCK it Kevin you douche licking kid-toucher!  And BDC molests his own puppies.  You wondered why he breeds then?  Well, question it no longer!HEY! I DO NOT LICK DOUCHE'S!

Justice4all

11-18-2006, 09:14 PM

Spoon at work again.

This message was edited by Justice4all on 11-21-06 @ 2:41 AM

Bulldogcakes

11-19-2006, 07:42 AM

EDIT on Hillenbrand. Apparently, the job open is full time 1B. They plan to DH Giambi full time next year <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/19/sports/baseball/19yankees.html?_r=2&ref=baseball&oref=slogin&oref= slogin" title="Spoon will love this">Spoon will love this</a> Cashman wants to lower the team’s payroll while getting younger, and he insists the Yankees have viable internal candidates for all their holes.“We have guys that we can turn to from within at all positions,” Cashman said Friday. “I’m not saying we’re going to turn to them, but in the worst-case scenario, if we do, we do. I’m engaging the trade and free-agent markets, but I have a comfort level in going with the guys I’ve got.”If the Yankees filled every job from within, their fifth starter would be Jeff Karstens, Darrell Rasner, Humberto Sánchez or reliever Scott Proctor. Their everyday first baseman would be Andy Phillips and their backup catcher Wil Nieves. Sean Henn would be their second left-hander out of the bullpen.So Cashman has inventory, and he added to it by acquiring Sánchez from Detroit in the <a href="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/gary_sheffield/index.html?inline=nyt-per" title="More articles about Gary Sheffield.">Gary Sheffield</a> trade and reliever Chris Britton from Baltimore in the Jaret Wright deal. But Cashman also has a track record.Last winter, when Johnny Damon was seeking a seven-year contract in free agency, Cashman said repeatedly that he would be comfortable using Bubba Crosby as the everyday center fielder.If Cashman was bluffing, Damon never called him on it. He let his price fall into the Yankees’ range — four years, $52 million — and the Yankees acted quickly to sign him. (Crosby was cut in August.)Next season, with <a href="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/g/jason_giambi/index.html?inline=nyt-per" title="More articles about Jason Giambi.">Jason Giambi</a> strictly a designated hitter, the Yankees’ only need in the lineup is a first baseman. They outbid the <a href="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/sports/baseball/majorleague/philadelphiaphillies/index.html?inline=nyt-org" title="Recent news and scores about the Philadelphia Phillies.">Phillies</a> for the former <a href="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/sports/baseball/majorleague/floridamarlins/index.html?inline=nyt-org" title="Recent news and scores about the Florida Marlins.">Marlins</a> infielder Wes Helms, but he chose Philadelphia for two years and $5.45 million.  The Yankees would seem to badly need more starters, yet Cashman said he preferred to focus on the pitchers in the Yankees farm system, including the prized prospect Phil Hughes.“The method to the madness is, the more players you can develop, the more you can keep from being desperate on the free-agent market,” Cashman said. “You don’t want to be desperate on the free-agent market, because you end up paying dearly.“You almost never get fair value on a free agent, so you try to put yourself in a position where you don’t have to go shopping in the free-agent market.”So true. The nature of the system is you have to overpay. In order to get a player you have to be willing to spend more than anyone else would, in most cases. You rarely get a bargain on the free agent market.  I'm still not so sure about this, you cant believe anything when negotiations are going on. But I think its clear they are getting away from the "All-Star at every position" bullshit. I think a mix of young and old can do wonders for this team, which has looked as dead as their manager on the bench lately in the playoffs.

Bulldogcakes

11-19-2006, 07:58 AM

<a href="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/472740p-397796c.html" title="Here's a topic. ">Here's a topic. </a> We know all about Torre's record, his class, his intelligence. We also know that he enters this season in the last season of his contract. There have been a lot of owners and team executives in this town who would never allow any manager or coach to do that, and that means managers or coaches who couldn't come close to carrying Torre's resume. But that is exactly where we are with Joe Torre, between last season and next season.   We all assumed that Don Mattingly, installed now as the bench coach next to Torre, in what is now a world's record string of bench coaches, was the clear heir apparent. But now Joe Girardi is fired from the Marlins and is Manager of the Year in the National League and back in the YES booth - YES seems to go through analysts now the way the Yankees go through bench coaches - and whatever anybody says on the record around the Yankees, that makes the whole Mattingly-Girardi thing a horse race.  I think its hands down, the choice is clearly Girardi. He has experience, AND (this is important) YOU CAN FIRE HIM if its not working, which is much harder to do with a legend like mattingly. I hope the Yanks have learned that lesson with Torre. I also think Girardi has some killer instinct, and has wanted to manage his entire career. Mattingly is only now talking about possibly managing someday, now that he's the bench coach.

spoon

11-19-2006, 08:17 AM

Dammit!  I did in fact type a whole lot on how Lilly admitted he was wrong and Gibby didn't try to fight him.  He was frustrated and showed up his manager who was in some shit recently with a player known to be an ass at two other organizations.  In essence, if the yanks get Hillenbrand they'll be replacing Sheff in terms of clubhouse cancers and believe me he'll fragment your clubhouse for his gain at any and every point.  According to a few players now (at Toronto), after the whole thing blew over finally, stated they liked the guy but he plays people against each other and kills the overall team.  Make no bones about it, the whole problem was really over playing time in the field and DH, and he didn't hide it except once the argument went down.  Then he turned it into something else, adoption and getting congrats from the Blue Jays.  I mean come on Shea!  You needed a congrats from JP to make it all aright.  JP and more have stated they gave him all the time he needed to get it done when it came up and wished him well.  Yet this all of a sudden was a big deal after he made a huge stink about playing time when he got back to the team and hadn't practiced in days while the other players were ready and still filling in for his rotational DH, and occasional field (1B/3B) substitution.  He wasn't even an everyday starter and he caused a huge rift in a team still in the picture.  The yanks don't have issues with salary constraints, especially when there are other options out there that don' t have this risk.  He big issue in Boston, there was some trouble in Arizona, and definitely trouble in Toronto.  Is this the type player you want after getting rid of Shef?  I think it's a bad move over time.  Sure he'll hit, he always does.  Still, he's well below average in the field (although he's an all-star compared to Giambi) and strikes out a lot.  He's all about personal stats and swings for the fences at all times even though he has moderate power at best and even with a two strike count.  You'll be happy with his overall offensive stats, but his defense and attitude will help devolve the new clubhouse the team seemingly were building.

cougarjake13

11-19-2006, 01:17 PM

they have plenty of power in the lineupthey need to find a good or at least decent fielding 1st baseman who can be more of a move the guys along or get on base rather than a run producer, thats what a rod giambi abreu and matsui are for

spoon

11-20-2006, 10:06 PM

Proctor to the rotation?  I guess he did pitch enough last year to get prepped for it.

Kevin

11-20-2006, 10:27 PM

spoon wrote: Proctor to the rotation?  I guess he did pitch enough last year to get prepped for it. Yea i think he was like 2 inn away from being a Sp anyway. I hope not though.

This message was edited by Kevin on 11-21-06 @ 2:27 AM

spoon

11-20-2006, 10:41 PM

Why not Kev?

crb1

11-21-2006, 03:55 AM

spoon wrote: Proctor to the rotation?  I guess he did pitch enough last year to get prepped for it. Personally, I've never been impressed with his breaking stuff.  Most of what I've seen looks like an average slider and change.  Apparently, he has a curve too, but I can't recall seeing it all that much.  However, I think he could be a cheap arm at the back of the rotation.  The back end of the rotation FAs (Wolf, Meche, etc.) are going to get some insane contracts compared to their ability level, so I would probably take a shot at Proctor.  I would also consider Karstens and/or Rasner.  I think any of the three can match what Wright gave them, plus each of them would be able to pitch past the 6th.

spoon

11-21-2006, 04:09 AM

The innings would be made up sure, but not the wins.  And I really doubt they needed to pull Wright that early every game.

Kevin

11-21-2006, 08:31 AM

spoon wrote: Why not Kev? Because unless he spends like at least a month or 2 in the AAA just working on endurance, he will be a fucking disaster. He showed last year that with an fatigue what so ever, he gets destroyed. And plus, he would be the most a in to the 6th pitcher. They should have kept Wright, at least 70% of the time Wright gave you decent Innings. With this dude you have no clue. But what can you do, this off-season is very pitching thin. I just want the Yanks to get the other Japanese pitcher for much less and watch him be better that Matsazuka.  I do not want to rush our Young pitchers either and Have a Lariano in our hands; God did the twins fuck that up. Like I told BDC in a PM, I would rather (dare I say) even miss the playoffs this year and have a 21 22 23, 28 year old pitchers in our rotation ready for 08, Hughes Sannchez, Wang, and this kid Ian Kennedy who, (from sports Ill) Yankees No. 1 pick Ian Kennedy.Kennedy, the 21st overall selection, is considered a highly polished pitcher who has a four-pitch repertoire and could be ready to join the Yankees' rotation by next season. Kennedy, from Huntington Beach, features a curveball, a changeup and a slider to go with a fastball that generally ranges from 89 to 93 mph. While he was just 5-7 with an uncharacteristically weak USC team this season, Kennedy was a combined 19-5 in his first two seasons as a Trojan, winning Pac-10 Pitcher of the Year honors after going 12-3 his sophomore season. We also have other highly touted pitchers in our farm such as Dellin Betances, Joba Chamberlain, Chris Garcia. J. Brent Cox, Mark Melancon., and the other 2 Det pitchers, who we do not know yet about, when 9 of your top 10 prospects are pitchers, I think You are going in the right direction. And people say oohhh the Yankees farm is bare. Yea that’s what these idiots said in 04, and we have brought up Wang, 19 game winner possible future CY Young, Cano, a future batting champ, and Melky, a very serviceable player.. So I think our future is pretty freaking bright here. And that is saying a lot because in 03 our farm was a fucking Disaster. So like I said, I would rather miss the playoff than fuck up our guys like Lariano, Prior, and our future goes kaput. Because as you are starting to see now, pitchers are becoming less and less available in the market. People are smartly locking up their good young pitchers. You have to do it the old way, develop your own. You can not get anymore good young pitcher, unless you give up your farm or other young pitchers in your farm, then its counter productive. OR You have a 39 year old grumpy OF to deal to the Detroit Tigers, otherwise, your shit out of luck. The Yanks have tried just signing pitchers, and for 6 years now, it has not worked. Hopefully for Yankee fans, Cashman has realized that and is doing shit the right way plus, if we win with our home grown pitchers, our beloved Spoon would have nothing to bark about…… Well that’s not true; Some Yankee fans will give him fodder. Because even I as a Yankee fan know, there is nothing more annoying than a winning Yankee fan, especially If the Yankees win the right way. But at least Spoon would have to respect the Yanks for the 1st time in a while, and I know he would hate every moment of it.  Here is a report I saw in Baseball America on the Yank FarmT</s

Doctor Z

11-21-2006, 01:05 PM

Don Stugots

11-21-2006, 01:06 PM

Doctor_Z wrote: <img src="http://homepage.mac.com/assbasket/.Pictures/jeterrobbed.jpg" border="0" /> i agree.

Doctor Z

11-21-2006, 01:16 PM

The anti-Jeter sentiment among the baseball world is getting so blatant it's disgraceful. At this point, the only people who DON'T hate Jeter's guts are Yankee fans. Some shitdick from the Chicago Sun Times placed Jeter 6th in the MVP vote. Be a fucking professional and put your differences aside for 2 minutes, and acknowledge that Jeter was the MVP this year. Or at the very least, not a 6th place candidate. But 6th?! How can anyone say that with a straight face?
Morneu wasn't even the best player on the Twins, nevermind the American League. Yankee fan or Yankee hater, just about everyone had Jeter winning this thing.

This message was edited by Doctor_Z on 11-21-06 @ 5:25 PM

Kevin

11-21-2006, 01:19 PM

STUGOTS1 wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: <img src="http://homepage.mac.com/assbasket/.Pictures/jeterrobbed.jpg" border="0" width="335" height="335" />  i agree.  I really do not have a huge problem with it. Would i have like DJ to win? Sure, But its not like the kid who won it is a bum. Like i said in my post in the MLB thread, Jeter was hurt by Arod winning last year, They would not give it to back to back Yankees. I would not call it Robbed. Robbed would be if a guy with lesser #'s won. Robbed is when Pedro lost out to Pudge Rodsteriods in 99 when a NY writer left Pedro off the ballot after if you take into consideration the facts of Roids, raised mounds, Pedro had perhaps the most impressive season ever for any player in any sport. That is being robbed, not this. Hell I even feel that Rivera was robbed more last year when he lost to Fat Basterd Colon for the Cy Young.

This message was edited by Kevin on 11-21-06 @ 5:40 PM

Kevin

11-21-2006, 01:23 PM

Doctor_Z wrote: The anti-Jeter sentiment among the baseball world is getting so blatant it's disgraceful. At this point, the only people who DON'T hate Jeter's guts are Yankee fans. Some shitdick from the Chicago Sun Times placed Jeter 6th in the MVP vote. Be a fucking professional and put your differences aside for 2 minutes, and acknowledge that Jeter was the MVP this year. 6th?! How can anyone say that with a straight face? Morneu wasn't even the best player on the Twins, nevermind the American League. Yankee fan or Yankee hater, just about everyone had Jeter winning this thing.  Morneu was absaloutly the best non pitcher on that team.Morneu struggled the Year before and the linup was shit, Mornue held that linup together, if he sucks batting 4th, everyone else suffers. Jeter gets also hurt by the protection he had in the linup. Who the fuck else besides Mauer did Morneu have?? Hunter? He never scares me, Mauer?? OHHH watch out he is gunna hit a single, or a double at the most. Micheal Cuddyer? WHO??? Jeter even with the Injuries had Fucking Damon on base 40% of the time, Than Abrau later on who's on fucking base like 50% of the time, than Giambi who before he hurt his wrist was great, Than fucking Arod who in a bad year hit 287, 35 115. Then Jorge, then a fucking 6th to 8th hitter batting 343.I mean come on Yankee fans wake up. This is not a fucking robbery.

This message was edited by Kevin on 11-21-06 @ 5:32 PM

Doctor Z

11-21-2006, 01:29 PM

If Morneu is a more valuable player than Jeter, then I pose to you this question: Would you trade Jeter for Morneu?

Jujubees2

11-21-2006, 01:34 PM

Doctor_Z wrote: If Morneu is a more valuable player than Jeter, then I pose to you this question: Would you trade Jeter for Morneu? I think you're confusing the award.  It's not Most Outstanding Player.  It's Most Valuable Player, that is, which player was the most valuable to his team.  While you can still argue that Jeter deserved it, Morneau was a huge part of the Twins' surprising success this year. Take him off the team and they probably don't make the playoffs.

Kevin

11-21-2006, 01:37 PM

Doctor_Z wrote: If Morneu is a more valuable player than Jeter, then I pose to you this question: Would you trade Jeter for Morneu? Morneu ment just as much to that team as Jeter ment to the Yankees, maybe even more considering the facts i gave on my previous post. Its not a debate who would you trade for whom.

This message was edited by Kevin on 11-21-06 @ 5:38 PM

HBox

11-21-2006, 01:40 PM

Kevin wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: The anti-Jeter sentiment among the baseball world is getting so blatant it's disgraceful. At this point, the only people who DON'T hate Jeter's guts are Yankee fans. Some shitdick from the Chicago Sun Times placed Jeter 6th in the MVP vote. Be a fucking professional and put your differences aside for 2 minutes, and acknowledge that Jeter was the MVP this year. 6th?! How can anyone say that with a straight face?     Morneu wasn't even the best player on the Twins, nevermind the American League. Yankee fan or Yankee hater, just about everyone had Jeter winning this thing. Morneu struggled the Year before and the linup was shit, Mornue held that linup together, if he sucks batting 4th, everyone else suffers. Jeter gets also hurt by the protection he had in the linup. Who the fuck else besides Mauer did Morneu have?? 

This message was edited by HBox on 11-21-06 @ 5:44 PM

Doctor Z

11-21-2006, 01:42 PM

I've heard this "Outstanding' vs. "Valuable" argument 4,000 times. I understand there's a difference. But that doesn't seem to matter when Ryan Howard wins it in Philly and A-Rod won it last year.

HBox

11-21-2006, 01:45 PM

Morneau is benefitting from the long period of offensive ineptitude from the Twins. He had very good numbers for a premier 1B, but MVP type numbers? If you are a power hitter, if that's how you are going to define your own success, is 34HRs that much?Mauer provided insane offensive output from the catcher position. Let's get off this HR fetish, just because he wasn't launching HRs on a regular basis doesn't mean he wasn't creating runs, just like Jeter. You expect what you got from Morneau, you don't expect what Mauer provided. Mauer and his production from the catcher position is more valuable than what Morneau did.Or let's put it this way. How many guys could you get to roughly replace Morneau's numbers. A handful. And how many could replicate what Mauer did? Nobody. Like Jeter.<a href="http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=99976" target="_blank">Here's this year's final VORP stats, a stat that measures the value of offensive contribution as relative to a position. Jeter is 3rd overall, 1st in the AL. Mauer is 10th overall. Morneau is 26th, one spot above A-Rod.</a>EDIT: I post this again because the last time I posted it it got chewed up and digested by the message board when I tried to edit it.

BoondockSaint

11-21-2006, 01:47 PM

Piazza never won an MVP.

Doctor Z

11-21-2006, 01:48 PM

And typically, when you have two high-ranking MVP candidates on the same team (Morneu & Mauer), they tend to "cancel out" each other's votes. I guess not this year. Whatever it takes to shit on Jeter's career season.

HBox

11-21-2006, 01:48 PM

Doctor_Z wrote: I've heard this "Outstanding' vs. "Valuable" argument 4,000 times. I understand there's a difference. But that doesn't seem to matter when Ryan Howard wins it in Philly and A-Rod won it last year.  Yes it does. Ryan Howard was #2 in VORP this year. Still behind Pujols of course, but still, even considering the position, THAT is outstanding 1B production, NOT what Morneau did.Likewise, last year A-Rod was #2 in MLB and #1 in the AL.

kdubya

11-21-2006, 01:50 PM

Doctor_Z wrote: The anti-Jeter sentiment among the baseball world is getting so blatant it's disgraceful. At this point, the only people who DON'T hate Jeter's guts are Yankee fans. Some shitdick from the Chicago Sun Times placed Jeter 6th in the MVP vote. Be a fucking professional and put your differences aside for 2 minutes, and acknowledge that Jeter was the MVP this year. Or at the very least, not a 6th place candidate. But 6th?! How can anyone say that with a straight face? Morneu wasn't even the best player on the Twins, nevermind the American League. Yankee fan or Yankee hater, just about everyone had Jeter winning this thing. This message was edited by Doctor_Z on 11-21-06 @ 5:25 PM The folks that matter didn't have Jeter winning or else he would have won.Boo-hoo poor Jeter doesn’t get any respect.  How can anyone say that their is anything anti-Jeter or anti anything Yankee. For the last 5-6 years the Yankees and Red Sox have dominated the baseball world. I don't mean on the field I mean baseball coverage. Mornaeu was the key to the Twins winning the division. His bat was there when they needed it. Jeter is a great player, one of the greatest all time with out a doubt. But this year Morneau was more valuable to his team. You can call foul all you want but the fact is Morneau has the hardware.So go home and cry about being robbed and how the world is unfair. My boy Justin is MVP and that isn't changing. In full disclosure I must say I have been a die hard Twins fan since I was a kid, so I am biased.But in all reality Morneau will most likely be a Yankee in a few years anyway

HBox

11-21-2006, 01:52 PM

BoondockSaint wrote: Piazza never won an MVP.He should of when he was still in LA.

Kevin

11-21-2006, 01:52 PM

kdubya wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: The anti-Jeter sentiment among the baseball world is getting so blatant it's disgraceful. At this point, the only people who DON'T hate Jeter's guts are Yankee fans. Some shitdick from the Chicago Sun Times placed Jeter 6th in the MVP vote. Be a fucking professional and put your differences aside for 2 minutes, and acknowledge that Jeter was the MVP this year. Or at the very least, not a 6th place candidate. But 6th?! How can anyone say that with a straight face? Morneu wasn't even the best player on the Twins, nevermind the American League. Yankee fan or Yankee hater, just about everyone had Jeter winning this thing. This message was edited by Doctor_Z on 11-21-06 @ 5:25 PM The folks that matter didn't have Jeter winning or else he would have won.Boo-hoo poor Jeter doesn’t get any respect.  How can anyone say that their is anything anti-Jeter or anti anything Yankee. For the last 5-6 years the Yankees and Red Sox have dominated the baseball world. I don't mean on the field I mean baseball coverage. Mornaeu was the key to the Twins winning the division. His bat was there when they needed it. Jeter is a great player, one of the greatest all time with out a doubt. But this year Morneau was more valuable to his team. You can call foul all you want but the fact is Morneau has the hardware.So go home and cry about being robbed and how the world is unfair. My boy Justin is MVP and that isn't changing. In full disclosure I must say I have been a die hard Twins fan since I was a kid, so I am biased.But in all reality Morneau will most likely be a Yankee in a few years anyway  With Ryan Howard as our DH.

Doctor Z

11-21-2006, 01:53 PM

I'm a Yankee fan, and I came here to whine, bitch, and moan that Jeter got screwed, so that's what I'm gonna do.

HBox

11-21-2006, 01:54 PM

kdubya wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: The anti-Jeter sentiment among the baseball world is getting so blatant it's disgraceful. At this point, the only people who DON'T hate Jeter's guts are Yankee fans. Some shitdick from the Chicago Sun Times placed Jeter 6th in the MVP vote. Be a fucking professional and put your differences aside for 2 minutes, and acknowledge that Jeter was the MVP this year. Or at the very least, not a 6th place candidate. But 6th?! How can anyone say that with a straight face? Morneu wasn't even the best player on the Twins, nevermind the American League. Yankee fan or Yankee hater, just about everyone had Jeter winning this thing. This message was edited by Doctor_Z on 11-21-06 @ 5:25 PM The folks that matter didn't have Jeter winning or else he would have won.Boo-hoo poor Jeter doesn’t get any respect. How can anyone say that their is anything anti-Jeter or anti anything Yankee. For the last 5-6 years the Yankees and Red Sox have dominated the baseball world. I don't mean on the field I mean baseball coverage. Mornaeu was the key to the Twins winning the division. His bat was there when they needed it. Jeter is a great player, one of the greatest all time with out a doubt. But this year Morneau was more valuable to his team. You can call foul all you want but the fact is Morneau has the hardware.So go home and cry about being robbed and how the world is unfair. My boy Justin is MVP and that isn't changing. In full disclosure I must say I have been a die hard Twins fan since I was a kid, so I am biased.But in all reality Morneau will most likely be a Yankee in a few years anyway  Yeah, but these are the same idiots who voted in Kirby Puckett into the HOF first ballot so they do have brain farts quite often. <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" />

kdubya

11-21-2006, 02:05 PM

Doctor_Z wrote: I'm a Yankee fan, and I came here to whine, bitch, and moan that Jeter got screwed, so that's what I'm gonna do. And that is what makes baseball great, the endless debate and bitching about your team and favorite player being robbed.

TheGameHHH

11-21-2006, 02:18 PM

yea, i agree that's what makes baseball great.........but as a hardcore yankees fan, i'm not even close to being upset that Jeter lost the MVP. I thought Morneau had a great season, so give him the award (though I could argue for Frank Thomas being more valuable to the A's this year than Morneau to the Twins), who cares?

Doctor Z

11-21-2006, 02:30 PM

Hearing Chris Russo, of all people, fervently defend Jeter against Joe Cowley's 6th place vote, was priceless. Cowley looked like a straight-up ASS.

HBox

11-21-2006, 02:44 PM

Keith Law from ESPN.com:I think all carping about the NL MVP voters getting their choice wrong must immediately cease. The AL's voters couldn't even correctly identify the most valuable Twin, never mind wrapping their heads around a whole league. The reality of baseball is that a great offensive player at an up-the-middle position is substantially more valuable than a slightly better hitter at a corner position. And when that up-the-middle player is one of the best fielders at his position in baseball, there's absolutely no comparison. Joe Mauer was more valuable than Justin Morneau this past season. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the first thing about baseball. Mauer had a 54-point edge in OBP over Morneau, which overwhelms the advantage Morneau had in slugging percentage (a 52-point edge). But Mauer won the Gold Glove for his position this past year, and he is arguably the best-fielding catcher in the game when you consider all aspects of catching. Catchers who field and hit the way Mauer does are extremely valuable, just as shortstops who hit like Derek Jeter does and play passable defense are extremely valuable. First basemen who hit like Morneau just shouldn't win MVP awards in years when there are Mauers and Jeters and other candidates to choose from. Even going by the stats that the dinosaur voters have favored for as long as the MVP award has existed, Morneau's season wasn't all that impressive. He tied for 12th in the AL in homers. He was second in RBI -- seven behind David Ortiz -- and just nine ahead of the least clutch player to ever be clutch, Alex Rodriguez. He was seventh in batting average, a few miles south of Mauer and Jeter, the other major MVP candidate. It's hard to fathom why any voter would put Morneau at the top of his ballot with so many obviously better candidates -- Mauer, Jeter, Ortiz, Jermaine Dye, unanimous Cy Young Award winner Johan Santana or the criminally neglected Carlos Guillen (the best player on the AL pennant winner) -- and in reality, more than half the voters did just that. If you don't watch the games, fellas, don't fill out your ballots. Incidentally, the following voters should be removed from the voting process permanently: • The guy who put Jeter sixth. • The guy who put Mauer 10th ... and the five guys who left him off their ballots entirely. • The three guys who put Frank Thomas second. • The guy who put A.J. Pierzynski 10th. And while we're at it, how the heck did Thomas -- the third-best designated hitter in the American League -- end up fourth in the voting? It's just more evidence that the bulk of this year's voters don't understand what is actually valuable in baseball: Players who hit and play good defense up the middle are the most valuable position players in the game. The NL had only one such candidate this year (Carlos Beltran), so it's understandable that that award went to a corner bat. It's time for some of these voters to put aside their fantasy-baseball mentality -- one that assumes that RBI measure something important and that OBP is a hip-hop song from the early 1990s -- and to take the MVP vote seriously again.

Doctor Z

11-21-2006, 02:49 PM

And a note to everyone who either "is okay with this, because Morneu was better" or "doesn't think Jeter deserved it"... keep in mind, Jeter lost with 12 votes behind Morneu's 15. So Joe Cowley's joke of a 6th place vote, that I think any sane person would disagree with, is the reason Jeter didn't win. The deciding factor was the vote of someone who, I think even Spoon would agree, made the wrong choice.

TheGameHHH

11-21-2006, 02:52 PM

My only problem with what Law is saying is he's baseing his entire argument around statistics. It's not like I don't think the players he mentions shouldnt be considered, but you can say anything you want through statistics. Just because a person has better statistics doesn't mean he's more valueable to a team than another guy.

HBox

11-21-2006, 02:54 PM

Doctor_Z wrote: And a note to everyone who either "is okay with this, because Morneu was better" or "doesn't think Jeter deserved it"... keep in mind, Jeter lost with 12 votes behind Morneu's 15. So Joe Cowley's joke of a 6th place vote, that I think any sane person would disagree with, is the reason Jeter didn't win. The deciding factor was the vote of someone who, I think even Spoon would agree, made the wrong choice.I would bet money that Cowley is the jackass who put AJ Pierzynski on his ballot. In fact, I'd bet that his ballot meets every single one of the above listed criteria.

HBox

11-21-2006, 02:55 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: My only problem with what Law is saying is he's baseing his entire argument around statistics. It's not like I don't think the players he mentions shouldnt be considered, but you can say anything you want through statistics. Just because a person has better statistics doesn't mean he's more valueable to a team than another guy.  I'm speechless here.

cougarjake13

11-21-2006, 03:26 PM

HBox wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: I've heard this "Outstanding' vs. "Valuable" argument 4,000 times. I understand there's a difference. But that doesn't seem to matter when Ryan Howard wins it in Philly and A-Rod won it last year.  Yes it does. Ryan Howard was #2 in VORP this year. Still behind Pujols of course, but still, even considering the position, THAT is outstanding 1B production, NOT what Morneau did. Likewise, last year A-Rod was #2 in MLB and #1 in the AL. plus howard almost single handedly led philly to the playoffs after the firesale had everyone thinking they were dead, yeh he had big numbers but just like david ortiz and unlike A Rod they usually meant something and came up big when needed

Kevin

11-21-2006, 04:19 PM

<table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" class="tablehead"><tbody><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center"><div><img src="http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6223.jpg" border="0" alt="Ted Lilly" width="65" height="90" /></div><div class="bi"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6223">Ted Lilly</a></div><div>Blue Jays</div></td><td><div style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nyy">Yankees</a>?</div></td><td><div class="bi">A return to pinstripes?</div><div>Nov 21 - The agent for Ted Lilly believes the Yankees will make the free-agent left-hander an offer, the New York Post reports. "I spoke with Brian Cashman [on Monday], and Brian indicated that the Yankees are interested in Ted," Lilly's agent, Larry O'Brien, told the newspaper. "I believe that at the appropriate time, the Yankees will make us an offer. ... Ted also likes his previous club, the Toronto Blue Jays, chances of getting to the postseason, and the Blue Jays are still very much in the picture."</div></td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center"><div><img src="http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6266.jpg" border="0" alt="Gil Meche" width="65" height="90" /></div><div class="bi"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6266">Gil Meche</a></div><div>Mariners</div></td><td><div style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tor">Blue Jays</a>?</div><div style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=kan">Royals</a>?</div><div style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nyy">Yankees</a>?</div><div style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chc">Cubs</a></div><div style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos">Red Sox</a>?</div></td><td><div class="bi">For starters, Cubs want Meche</div><div>Nov 21 - Free-agent starter Gil Meche is at the top of the Cubs' pitching wish list, the Chicago Sun-Times reports. Meche, who was 11-8 with a 4.48 ERA for the Mariners last season, is believed to be seeking an annual salary of at least $8 million. </div></td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65"> </td><td> </td></tr></tbody></table>  I kinda like the Lily thing. He is a decent pitcher, and won't cost that much. Its better than having fucking Procter in the rotation.

TheGameHHH

11-21-2006, 04:39 PM

HBox, seriously why are you speechless? Once again listen to what I'm saying, the players this Law guy talks about certainly deserve mention for MVP, but just because a guy has better statistics than Morneau does not mean they are more valueable to their respective team. This isnt baseball talking, its pure mathematical fact. You can say anything you want through statistics.

HBox

11-21-2006, 04:55 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: HBox, seriously why are you speechless? Once again listen to what I'm saying, the players this Law guy talks about certainly deserve mention for MVP, but just because a guy has better statistics than Morneau does not mean they are more valueable to their respective team. This isnt baseball talking, its pure mathematical fact. You can say anything you want through statistics. Then prove to me that Bubba Crosby is a better home run hitter than Barry Bonds.The fact is that there are a few first baseman in the league who could have done exactly what Morneau did. There are three who did better. He put up numbers at a position where you are supposed to put up numbers. Yes, he hit a lot of HRs and drove in a lot of runs. First basemen are supposed to do that. It is a position where big hitters with crappy defensive skills are put. If his defense is still bad, the effect is limited. It's offense where he mainly contributes, and he has to do a hell of a lot of it to place himself well above the other first basemen in the league, which Albert Pujols and Ryan Howard did and Morneau didn't. He is replaceable. Jeter is not. Mauer is not. If you put a person with crappy defense at catcher or shortstop it will kill your team. Therefore, run producers are much rarer. And when you can have that kind of production out of that position your team is that much stronger. You have a big time run producer at positions where other teams are running out Jose Molinas and Alex Gonzalezs. How much better than Molina is Mauer? How much better than Alex Gonzalez is Jeter? And then, how much better than Jason Giambi is Justin Morneau?

crb1

11-21-2006, 05:06 PM

Kevin wrote: I kinda like the Lily thing. He is a decent pitcher, and won't cost that much. Its better than having fucking Procter in the rotation.That depends on your definition of "cheap."  Lilly wants 4 years/$36 million.I think Proctor may be a better option, money-wise, than Meche, since Meche has been looking for $7-8 million a year for 3-4 years.

TheGameHHH

11-21-2006, 05:08 PM

HBox, that's my whole point......say I did find a stat (although with such extremes I doubt it exists) that said Crosby was a better HR hitter than Bonds, we all know it wouldn't be true. Just because a stat says something it doesn't mean it holds true, especially when arguing players of similar talent.

Kevin

11-21-2006, 05:11 PM

crb1 wrote: Kevin wrote: I kinda like the Lily thing. He is a decent pitcher, and won't cost that much. Its better than having fucking Procter in the rotation.That depends on your definition of "cheap."  Lilly wants 4 years/$36 million.I think Proctor may be a better option, money-wise, than Meche, since Meche has been looking for $7-8 million a year for 3-4 years.Considering Zito wants 5- 75+. AndI do not think he is much much better than Lily. Procter is a terrible idea. Any sign of fatigue he got rocked last year. How is he going to do pitching more innings?

This message was edited by Kevin on 11-21-06 @ 9:12 PM

johnniewalker

11-21-2006, 05:20 PM

Wow, I thought the race was with Frank and Jeter.  One of the worst MVP's ever.  I know you shouldn't look at the guys's short career, but he's been underwhelming at best.  He was benched and who knows if they would have sent him down.  Unbelievable.  He's a first baseman.  Unreal. If this guy is around putting substantial numbers 5 years from now I'd be surprised.

HBox

11-21-2006, 05:25 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: HBox, that's my whole point......say I did find a stat (although with such extremes I doubt it exists) that said Crosby was a better HR hitter than Bonds, we all know it wouldn't be true. Just because a stat says something it doesn't mean it holds true, especially when arguing players of similar talent. But you don't have a stat like that because it doesn't exist. And it doesn't exist because stats work. I have no idea what your point is. Don't use stats? Stats are performance. If we are just going to give the award to the the player people consider the best in the league A-Rod and Pujols would win it every year. Stats are the player's record and ANY WAY you want to measure them there are better players than Morneau.Stats are only as good as the people who use them. Anyone who makes a judgement on one single stat is an idiot. And that fault lies with the person and not the stats. And to not consider stats at all because different ones have conflicitng info or you don't understand them or you don't like what they are saying that is just as bad.

Bulldogcakes

11-21-2006, 05:37 PM

Doctor_Z wrote: If Morneu is a more valuable player than Jeter, then I pose to you this question: Would you trade Jeter for Morneu?The question to ask is "Would the Yanks have won thier division without Jeter?" and "Would the Twins have won without Morneau?" THe Yanks won their division by 10 games. The Twins barely squeaked into the playoffs, winning their division on the LAST DAY of the season. THe Twins were way back when Morneau got off to a slow start (Mauer hit all year) When Morneau started hitting, the Twins started winning. Morneau is WAY more important to the Twins than Jeter is to the Yanks.   The Yanks might have won their division without Jeter, or they might not have. There's NO WAY ON EARTH the Twins win without Morneau. Therefore, he's more valuable to his team.   Plus, I dont expect Jeter to get personal stat awards anyway. Thats not what he's about. Let A-Rod get the MVP's (hopefully elsewhere), and Jeter get the rings.

HBox

11-21-2006, 05:56 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: If Morneu is a more valuable player than Jeter, then I pose to you this question: Would you trade Jeter for Morneu?The question to ask is "Would the Yanks have won thier division without Jeter?" and "Would the Twins have won without Morneau?" THe Yanks won their division by 10 games. The Twins barely squeaked into the playoffs, winning their division on the LAST DAY of the season. THe Twins were way back when Morneau got off to a slow start (Mauer hit all year) When Morneau started hitting, the Twins started winning. Morneau is WAY more important to the Twins than Jeter is to the Yanks. The Yanks might have won their division without Jeter, or they might not have. There's NO WAY ON EARTH the Twins win without Morneau. Therefore, he's more valuable to his team. Plus, I dont expect Jeter to get personal stat awards anyway. Thats not what he's about. Let A-Rod get the MVP's (hopefully elsewhere), and Jeter get the rings.  So Morneau wins the MVP because Detroit and Chicago were good and Boston had an off-year? This award is about the PLAYER's value, not the other teams in their division. How about we look at it this way. NY was 97-65. Minn was 96-66. What would NY's record be without Jeter? What would Minn's record be without Morneau. Impossible to get an answer put I'd put down money they'd be even worse without Mauer or Liriano. That they'd be even worse without Santana is a given. This is the guy who wins the MVP?

Kevin

11-21-2006, 06:06 PM

Why the fuck does anyone give a shit?? I do not care about MVPs. You think Pujols would trade in his ring for The MVP he did not win?? Jeter wants to win rings, he could not care any less about awards. I do not understand why Yankee fans have become so wraped up in player awards? Who gives a shit. If Jeter wins or does not win the MVP does not change that we have lost in the 1st round 2 years in a row.  96-2000, Not one Yankee was in contention for any major award. We won team titles not individual. Clemens won the CY in 01, guess what?? our streak ended. Yankees have been top 5 in MVP balloting every year since then, 1 year one won, and guess what??? NO RINGSS. That is all i care about. I want to shut the Yankee hater up and make them suffer, and the only way that happens is CHAMPIONSHIPS! Not meaningless fucking individual awards. Can we get back to what matters?? Free agents and what the team has to do to win Titles. Thank God professionals run the team and not fans,. If fans did , nothing would fucking get done.

Bulldogcakes

11-21-2006, 06:15 PM

HBox wrote: Keith Law from ESPN.com: The reality of baseball is that a great offensive player at an up-the-middle position is substantially more valuable than a slightly better hitter at a corner position. And when that up-the-middle player is one of the best fielders at his position in baseball, there's absolutely no comparison. Joe Mauer was more valuable than Justin Morneau this past season. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the first thing about baseball.   Sorry, but the MVP is much more about hitting than fielding. Anyone who doesn't understand that, doesnt know anything about who wins MVP's. <table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="290" bgcolor="#cccccc"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>2006</td><td>Justin Morneau</td><td>Minnesota</td><td>1B</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>2005</td><td>Alex Rodriguez</td><td>New York</td><td>3B</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>2004</td><td>Vladimir Guerrero</td><td>Anaheim</td><td>RF</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>2003</td><td>Alex Rodriguez</td><td>Texas</td><td>SS</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>2002</td><td>Miguel Tejada</td><td>Oakland</td><td>SS</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>2001</td><td>Ichiro Suzuki</td><td>Seattle</td><td>RF </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>2000</td><td>Jason Giambi</td><td>Oakland</td><td>1B</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1999</td><td>Ivan Rodriguez</td><td>Texas</td><td>C</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1998</td><td>Juan Gonzalez</td><td>Texas</td><td>OF</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1997</td><td>Ken Griffey, Jr.</td><td>Seattle</td><td>OF</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1996</td><td>Juan Gonzalez</td><td>Texas</td><td>OF</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1995</td><td>Mo Vaughn</td><td>Boston</td><td>1B</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1994</td><td>Frank Thomas</td><td>Chicago</td><td>1B</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1993</td><td>Frank Thomas</td><td>Chicago</td><td>1B</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1992</td><td>Dennis Eckersley</td><td>Oakland</td><td>P</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1991</td><td>Cal Ripken, Jr.</td><td>Baltimore</td><td>SS</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1990</td><td>Rickey Henderson</td><td>Oakland</td><td>OF</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1989</td><td>Robin Yount</td><td>Milwaukee</td><td>OF</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1988</td><td>Jose Canseco</td><td>Oakland</td><td>OF</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1987</td><td>George Bell</td><td>Toronto</td><td>OF</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1986</td><td>Roger Clemens</td><td>Boston</td><td>P</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1985</td><td>Don Mattingly</td><td>New York</td><td>1B</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1984</td><td>Willie Hernandez</td><td>Detroit</td><td>P</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1983</td><td>Cal Ripken, Jr.</td><td>Baltimore</td><td>SS</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1982</td><td>Robin Yount</td><td>Milwaukee</td><td>SS</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1981</td><td>Rollie Fingers</td><td>Milwaukee</td><td>P</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1980</td><td>George Brett</td><td>Kansas City</td><td>3B</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>1979  </td><td>Don Baylor  </td><td>California  </td><td>OF</td></tr></tbody></table>Bunch of defensive wizards huh? I bet half of these guys put their gloves on backwards. And I count 6 position players on the list of 28 who played somewhere up the middle.   [QUOTE]Mauer had a 54-point edge in OBP over Morneau, which overwhelms the advantage Morneau had in slugging percentage (a 52-point edge). But Mauer won the Gold Glove for his position this past year, and he is arguably the best-fielding catcher in the game when you consider all

Bulldogcakes

11-21-2006, 06:18 PM

Kevin wrote: <table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" class="tablehead"><tbody><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center">*><img src="http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6223.jpg" border="0" alt="Ted Lilly" width="65" height="90" />* class="bi"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6223">Ted Lilly</a>*>Blue Jays</td><td>* style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nyy">Yankees</a>?</td><td>* class="bi">A return to pinstripes?*>Nov 21 - The agent for Ted Lilly believes the Yankees will make the free-agent left-hander an offer, the New York Post reports. "I spoke with Brian Cashman [on Monday], and Brian indicated that the Yankees are interested in Ted," Lilly's agent, Larry O'Brien, told the newspaper. "I believe that at the appropriate time, the Yankees will make us an offer. ... Ted also likes his previous club, the Toronto Blue Jays, chances of getting to the postseason, and the Blue Jays are still very much in the picture."</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center">*><img src="http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6266.jpg" border="0" alt="Gil Meche" width="65" height="90" />* class="bi"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6266">Gil Meche</a>*>Mariners</td><td>* style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tor">Blue Jays</a>?* style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=kan">Royals</a>?* style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nyy">Yankees</a>?* style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chc">Cubs</a>* style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos">Red Sox</a>?</td><td>* class="bi">For starters, Cubs want Meche*>Nov 21 - Free-agent starter Gil Meche is at the top of the Cubs' pitching wish list, the Chicago Sun-Times reports. Meche, who was 11-8 with a 4.48 ERA for the Mariners last season, is believed to be seeking an annual salary of at least $8 million. </td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65"> </td><td> </td></tr></tbody></table>  I kinda like the Lily thing. He is a decent pitcher, and won't cost that much. Its better than having fucking Procter in the rotation. Not much of an upgrade over Wright. I always like lefties in Yankee stadium, but Lilly doesn't excite me at all. As far as I'm concerned, we still dont have a stopper/ace. And we need two.   Can we say he's homegrown?

Bulldogcakes

11-21-2006, 06:24 PM

HBox wrote:So Morneau wins the MVP because Detroit and Chicago were good and Boston had an off-year? This award is about the PLAYER's value, not the other teams in their division. How about we look at it this way. NY was 97-65. Minn was 96-66. What would NY's record be without Jeter? What would Minn's record be without Morneau. Impossible to get an answer put I'd put down money they'd be even worse without Mauer or Liriano. That they'd be even worse without Santana is a given. This is the guy who wins the MVP? Yes. Its about the players value to his team success. You've heard the old saying "we could have finished last without you" right? So how the team does is vital to MVP consideration. Since you love the VORP stat so much, where were all the MVP votes for Travis hafner and Grady Sizemore? Nowhere, because their team went nowhere.

HBox

11-21-2006, 06:46 PM

Bunch of defensive wizards huh? I bet half of these guys put their gloves on backwards. And I count 6 position players on the list of 28 who played somewhere up the middle. That was absolutely not the point. Furthermore, the actual point was so obvious that I believe you are purposely misinterpreting it. Just playing those positions with average defense makes their defensive contribution higher. The point is that the defensive contribution of players up the middle is greater, and the average offensive ability of players there lower that when you get a player at those positions putting up good numbers they are more valuable than a corner guy with better raw numbers. Like I said there are a few players who can replicate what Morneau did. Jeter? No.Wow, where do you start with this? Power hitters will always be looked on more highly because the whole idea of hitting is to SCORE RUNS.Was there some rule change where they decided that only HRs could score runs anymore?I dont give a fuck about OBP if the guy never scores.Again you are valuing a player on the contributions of others. All a player can do is get on base.And guys like Jeter and Mauer dont magically create runs all by themselves, unless their stealing home 100+ times a year.They contribute by getting on base in the first place. Power hitters can't drive in runs by themselves.Leading the league in OBP without any power hitters to knock them home is a great way to also lead the league in men LOB.And hitting 50 solo HRs is pretty useless too.You need both types of players to be successful, but power hitters who get the RBI's are, in my book, more valuable.Why? Looking at the stats there are guys who can do exactly what Morneau did. There are guys who can do it better. As for Jeter? Again, no. You aren't getting a SS that can do what he can do. So how is Morneau more valuable again?David Ortiz was on a team that finished 3rdAgain with defining a player's value on other players.Ortiz, another guy who could do better in Morneau's spot, BTW. A-Rod will still get 100 RBI's 10 years after he dies in the stacked Yankee lineup.Thank you for giving an example of how useless the RBI stat can be. What side are you on again?Johan Santana? Great, we'll give him the CY Young AND the MVP and just ignore all of the hitters this year. BrilliantThe award is Most Valuable Player. Are you going to say that Morneau is more valuable than Santana? The Twins got to the playoffs without Morneau. And they started getting there only when Santana emerged.You are creating your own interpretation of the award.Frank Thomas was an island of hitting on an inept A's team. One of the worst hitting teams in years to actually win their division. He was therefore, very valuable to his team.Nick Swisher says hello.And, again, you can replace Thomas. you can improve upon Thomas.[quote]And yes, duh, you build a team with defense up the middle and power on the corners. But if he wants to value up the middle defense so highly, where's his vote for Tori Hunter? Maybe the best CF in basebal

HBox

11-21-2006, 06:48 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: HBox wrote:So Morneau wins the MVP because Detroit and Chicago were good and Boston had an off-year? This award is about the PLAYER's value, not the other teams in their division. How about we look at it this way. NY was 97-65. Minn was 96-66. What would NY's record be without Jeter? What would Minn's record be without Morneau. Impossible to get an answer put I'd put down money they'd be even worse without Mauer or Liriano. That they'd be even worse without Santana is a given. This is the guy who wins the MVP? Yes. Its about the players value to his team success. You've heard the old saying "we could have finished last without you" right? So how the team does is vital to MVP consideration. Since you love the VORP stat so much, where were all the MVP votes for Travis hafner and Grady Sizemore? Nowhere, because their team went nowhere.  The base of this wole thing being that these sportswriters are idiots I don't see how that applies. Some idiot voted for AJ Pierzynski. These guys have been defining a player's value on their teammates for a long time. But tha's besides the point because if we would just go by VORP Jeter still finished ahead of either of them.

HBox

11-21-2006, 07:00 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: HBox wrote:So Morneau wins the MVP because Detroit and Chicago were good and Boston had an off-year? This award is about the PLAYER's value, not the other teams in their division. How about we look at it this way. NY was 97-65. Minn was 96-66. What would NY's record be without Jeter? What would Minn's record be without Morneau. Impossible to get an answer put I'd put down money they'd be even worse without Mauer or Liriano. That they'd be even worse without Santana is a given. This is the guy who wins the MVP? Yes. Its about the players value to his team success. You've heard the old saying "we could have finished last without you" right? So how the team does is vital to MVP consideration. Since you love the VORP stat so much, where were all the MVP votes for Travis hafner and Grady Sizemore? Nowhere, because their team went nowhere.  Another thing. Byt his logic, let's say that the Twins and Tigers were tied at the trading deadline. The teams are evenly matched. The Twins go out and trade for, let's say, Raul ibanez, a good player who happens to be an upgrade over whoever they have playing that position previously. He goes on to play at his level and the Twins go on and win the division by 4 games. By that logic wouldn't Raul Ibanez be MVP? He made the difference, right?

Don Stugots

11-21-2006, 07:04 PM

Jeter was just on ESPN with a statment.  it was "i didnt win?  i didnt notice i was fucking some hot twat.  oh well, thats the breaks, i will go back to fucking another hot twat.  oh yeah, one more thing, A-rod is gay and i get laid by a different hot twat everynight of the week.  good night."

Kevin

11-21-2006, 07:14 PM

STUGOTS1 wrote: Jeter was just on ESPN with a statment.  it was "i didnt win?  i didnt notice i was fucking some hot twat.  oh well, thats the breaks, i will go back to fucking another hot twat.  oh yeah, one more thing, A-rod is gay and i get laid by a different hot twat everynight of the week.  good night." Discussion closed.

spoon

11-21-2006, 09:30 PM

Good post on the future of the yanks Kev so I'm gonna hit a few points and catch up with the thread too since I'm sure Jeter is a big topic.  Kev wrote and listed: General manager Brian Cashman clearly influenced that move and made most of the big decisions surrounding the Yankees this year as the 75-year-old Steinbrenner faded more into the background. Cashman, who has centralized many of the club's operations in New York (rather than in Tampa, Steinbrenner's home), has been GM during the club's nine-year run atop the American League East. But New York hasn't won a World Series championship since 2000 despite spending nearly $1 billion on major league salaries. The reasons for that failure can be debated, but having to start Wright against the Tigers in Game Four of the Division Series highlighted the Yankees' inability to develop pitching. The only postseason victory came from Wang—the lone starter they've developed and kept since Andy Pettitte. New York's Plan B has been to use trades and free agency to build its staff.Those stats are staggering to me.  $1 BILLION!!??  It proves a ton of my past points, but it looks as though Cashman has learned and or got more power to take the team in a different direction.  However......

spoon

11-21-2006, 09:39 PM

Kev wrote/listed:In the near future, though, the Yankees should have plenty of homegrown options, both in the rotation and in the bullpen. Their last three drafts have brought in several significant arms, and Philip Hughes is arguably the best pitching prospect in the minors. He probably was ready to help New York in September, but the organization played it safe with its top prospect, who nearly doubled his career high for innings in a season. Hughes and fellow starters Tyler Clippard, Jeff Karstens and Steven White, plus relievers T.J. Beam and J. Brent Cox, should be able to contribute in 2007. As some talent graduates to the top, the Yankees replenished the bottom of their farm system, bringing in as much talent as any organization in 2006. New York spent roughly $7 million on the draft, landing four pitchers (Dellin Betances, Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy and Mark Melancon) who jump into their top 10. The Yankees also spent heavily on a dozen international players, including $2 million for Venezuelan catcher Jesus Montero. While he had a poor minicamp in the fall, Montero was widely regarded as having the most power among 2006 international signees. Do you not see the unfair advantage goes to multiple levels here.  The yanks pay draft players a lot, keep all key players and never lose any unless they opt to let them go in free agency, and finally consider internation prospects that they outbid everyone else on and it's considered "homegrown"!!??  Fuck that.  Did the Sox develop and bring up there new international prospect?  No way and how the hell do other teams spend this money on international talent when they can't even spend it on their major league team.  I know the yanks are doing things a little different this year, but it's not like they're the UNICEF or United Way of MLB all of a sudden.  And trust me, they'll be making some big money moves soon enough.  Even though the Abreu move was a ton more than most teams could make over two years.

spoon

11-21-2006, 09:40 PM

spoon

11-21-2006, 09:44 PM

Kevin wrote: STUGOTS1 wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: <img src="http://homepage.mac.com/assbasket/.Pictures/jeterrobbed.jpg" border="0" width="335" height="335" />  i agree.  I really do not have a huge problem with it. Would i have like DJ to win? Sure, But its not like the kid who won it is a bum. Like i said in my post in the MLB thread, Jeter was hurt by Arod winning last year, They would not give it to back to back Yankees. I would not call it Robbed. Robbed would be if a guy with lesser #'s won. Robbed is when Pedro lost out to Pudge Rodsteriods in 99 when a NY writer left Pedro off the ballot after if you take into consideration the facts of Roids, raised mounds, Pedro had perhaps the most impressive season ever for any player in any sport. That is being robbed, not this. Hell I even feel that Rivera was robbed more last year when he lost to Fat Basterd Colon for the Cy Young. This message was edited by Kevin on 11-21-06 @ 5:40 PM Holy shit, what's next lunch with Moe??  I totally agree with Kev here.  I wouldn't have been mad if either won bc a case could be made for both.  And I too thought Mo was the MVP last year and actually thought that was a bigger joke.  However, I can't say Jeter not getting it didn't make me a little giddy.

Don Stugots

11-21-2006, 09:47 PM

spoon, not that i know the whole story, didnt some writer not vote for DJ due to anti-yankee sentiment?  if so, that is wrong.   also, i dont think Ortiz should have won last year he was a DH.  he deserved the batting title no doubt but to me MVP is all around player, which is why MO shouldnt get it either.  relievers need there own award due to their lack of consideration in the cy young.

spoon

11-21-2006, 09:54 PM

Kevin wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: If Morneu is a more valuable player than Jeter, then I pose to you this question: Would you trade Jeter for Morneu? Morneu ment just as much to that team as Jeter ment to the Yankees, maybe even more considering the facts i gave on my previous post. Its not a debate who would you trade for whom.This message was edited by Kevin on 11-21-06 @ 5:38 PM Plus this year is all most of you know about Morneau.  You can't put all your knowledge of Jeter's play and history up against a newer player on a lesser team and ask the trade question.  But in truth, if it was based on this year alone with no other stats one would argue Morneau would be tough to turn down.  I guess it really depends on if you're looking for a 1 or 2 in the lineup or a 3 hitter.  And to be honest most of the time players with more power in close races win.

spoon

11-21-2006, 09:55 PM

<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="620"><tbody><tr class="primaryBg"><td> </td><td class="textLg white" colspan="29" align="left">Player Comparison </td><td colspan="11" align="right"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/mlb/images/ad_16x80.gif" border="0" width="80" height="16" /></td><td rowspan="6"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td></tr><tr><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td class="textSm grey" colspan="22" align="left">All Position Hitting Stats, 2006 </td><td class="textSm grey" colspan="17" align="right"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=1&c_id=mlb&isCo mpare=true&venueID=&timeSubFrame=2006&box6=XXXX408 047XXXX&baseballScope=mlb&teamPosCode=all&timeFram e=1&sitSplit=&checkBoxTotal=0&section1=2&subScope= pos&box1=XXXX116539nya6&sortByStat=AVG&compare.x=& statSet1=2">Next Stats>></a> </td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="5" height="1" /></td></tr><tr><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="18" /></td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="53" height="1" /></td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="18" /></td><td colspan="37"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td></tr><tr><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td class="textSm grey" rowspan="3" align="left" valign="top"> Select up to 5 players <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/spacer_999999.gif" border="0" width="49" height="1" /> <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/stats/5picks.gif" border="0" width="11" height="11" name="picks1" /> Picks left</td><td bgcolor="#cccccc"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td bgcolor="#cccccc"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=1&statSet1=1&c_ id=mlb&isCompare=true&venueID=&box6=XXXX408047XXXX &baseballScope=mlb&teamPosCode=all&compare.x=&time Frame=1&sitSplit=&checkBoxTotal=0&section1=2&playe rLocator=morneau&subScope=pos&box1=XXXX116539nya6& timeSubFrame=2006&compare.x=&sortByStat=Last_Name&">Player</a> </td><td rowspan="3"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=1&statSet1=1&c_ id=mlb&isCompare=true&venueID=&box6=XXXX408047XXXX &baseballScope=mlb&teamPosCode=all&compare.x=&time Frame=1&sitSplit=&checkBoxTotal=0&section1=2&playe rLocator=morneau&subScope=pos&box1=XXXX116539nya6& timeSubFrame=2006&compare.x=&sortByStat=TEAM&">TEAM</a> </td><td rowspan="3"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=1&statSet1=1&c_ id=mlb&isCompare=true&venueID=&box6=XXXX408047XXXX &baseballScope=mlb&teamPosCode=all&compare.x=&time Frame=1&sitSplit=&checkBoxTotal=0&section1=2&playe rLocator=morneau&subScope=pos&box1=XXXX116539nya6& timeSubFrame=2006&compare.x=&sortByStat=POS&">POS</a> </td><td rowspan="3"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc

spoon

11-21-2006, 09:58 PM

<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="606"><tbody><tr class="primaryBg"><td class="textLg white" colspan="29" align="left">Player Comparison </td><td colspan="11" align="right"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/mlb/images/ad_16x80.gif" border="0" width="80" height="16" /></td><td rowspan="6"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td></tr><tr><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td class="textSm grey" colspan="15" align="left">All Position Fielding Stats, 2006 </td><td class="textSm grey" colspan="17" align="right"></td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="5" height="1" /></td></tr><tr><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="18" /></td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="53" height="1" /></td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="18" /></td><td colspan="37"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td></tr><tr><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td class="textSm grey" rowspan="3" align="left" valign="top"> Select up to 5 players <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/spacer_999999.gif" border="0" width="49" height="1" /> <img src="http://mlb.mlb.com/images/stats/3picks.gif" border="0" width="11" height="11" name="picks3" /> Picks left</td><td bgcolor="#cccccc"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td bgcolor="#cccccc"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=3&section3=null &c_id=mlb&isCompare=true&venueID=&statSet3=null&bo x6=XXXX408047XXXX&baseballScope=mlb&teamPosCode=al l&compare.x=&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=&checkBoxTotal=0 &box2=XXXX116539nya6&playerLocator=morneau&subScop e=pos&timeSubFrame=2006&compare.x=&sortByStat=Last _Name&">Player</a> </td><td rowspan="3"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=3&section3=null &c_id=mlb&isCompare=true&venueID=&statSet3=null&bo x6=XXXX408047XXXX&baseballScope=mlb&teamPosCode=al l&compare.x=&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=&checkBoxTotal=0 &box2=XXXX116539nya6&playerLocator=morneau&subScop e=pos&timeSubFrame=2006&compare.x=&sortByStat=TEAM &">TEAM</a> </td><td rowspan="3"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=3&section3=null &c_id=mlb&isCompare=true&venueID=&statSet3=null&bo x6=XXXX408047XXXX&baseballScope=mlb&teamPosCode=al l&compare.x=&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=&checkBoxTotal=0 &box2=XXXX116539nya6&playerLocator=morneau&subScop e=pos&timeSubFrame=2006&compare.x=&sortByStat=POS&">POS</a> </td><td rowspan="3"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=3&section3=null &c_id=mlb&isCompare=true&venueID=&statSet3=null&bo x6=XXXX408047XXXX&baseballScope=mlb&teamPosCode=al l&compare.x=&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=&checkBoxTotal=0 &box2=XXXX116539nya6&playerLocator=morneau&subScop e=pos&timeSubFrame=2006&compare.x=&sortByStat=G&"><str

spoon

11-21-2006, 10:04 PM

And I'll return to the captain argument that's been hit on here very often.  Jeter did absolutely nothing to fix the Arod issue surrounding the team when a lot of it has to do with him directly.  I really think this hurt the yanks down the stretch and certainly in the playoffs.  Factor that in, while Mauer has stated Morneau and Hunter have helped him and lead that team.

spoon

11-21-2006, 10:06 PM

Doctor_Z wrote: Hearing Chris Russo, of all people, fervently defend Jeter against Joe Cowley's 6th place vote, was priceless. Cowley looked like a straight-up ASS. That really is fucking idiotic I must admit.  When someone makes such a biased move they should lose their power to vote in the future.

spoon

11-21-2006, 10:16 PM

Kevin wrote: <table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" class="tablehead"><tbody><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center">*><img src="http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6223.jpg" border="0" alt="Ted Lilly" width="65" height="90" /> * class="bi"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6223">Ted Lilly</a> *>Blue Jays </td><td>* style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nyy">Yankees</a>? </td><td>* class="bi">A return to pinstripes? *>Nov 21 - The agent for Ted Lilly believes the Yankees will make the free-agent left-hander an offer, the New York Post reports. "I spoke with Brian Cashman [on Monday], and Brian indicated that the Yankees are interested in Ted," Lilly's agent, Larry O'Brien, told the newspaper. "I believe that at the appropriate time, the Yankees will make us an offer. ... Ted also likes his previous club, the Toronto Blue Jays, chances of getting to the postseason, and the Blue Jays are still very much in the picture."</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center">*><img src="http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6266.jpg" border="0" alt="Gil Meche" width="65" height="90" /> * class="bi"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6266">Gil Meche</a> *>Mariners </td><td>* style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tor">Blue Jays</a>? * style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=kan">Royals</a>? * style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nyy">Yankees</a>? * style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chc">Cubs</a> * style="margin: 2px 0px"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos">Red Sox</a>? </td><td>* class="bi">For starters, Cubs want Meche *>Nov 21 - Free-agent starter Gil Meche is at the top of the Cubs' pitching wish list, the Chicago Sun-Times reports. Meche, who was 11-8 with a 4.48 ERA for the Mariners last season, is believed to be seeking an annual salary of at least $8 million. </td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65"> </td><td> </td></tr></tbody></table>  I kinda like the Lily thing. He is a decent pitcher, and won't cost that much. Its better than having fucking Procter in the rotation.I'd be ok with Lilly leaving as long as we got Meche.  These guys are almost identical, and Lilly may cost a few million more a year.<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="620"><tbody><tr class="primaryBg"><td class="textLg white" colspan="29" align="left">Player Comparison </td><td colspan="11" align="right"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/mlb/images/ad_16x80.gif" border="0" width="80" height="16" /></td><td rowspan="6"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td></tr><tr><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td class="textSm grey" colspan="22" align="left">All Position Pitching Stats, 2006 </td><td class="textSm grey" colspan="17" align="right"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=2&c_id=mlb

spoon

11-21-2006, 10:20 PM

johnniewalker wrote: Wow, I thought the race was with Frank and Jeter.  One of the worst MVP's ever.  I know you shouldn't look at the guys's short career, but he's been underwhelming at best.  He was benched and who knows if they would have sent him down.  Unbelievable.  He's a first baseman.  Unreal. If this guy is around putting substantial numbers 5 years from now I'd be surprised. Too bad the vote isn't about if the guy puts up numbers in five years huh?

spoon

11-21-2006, 10:22 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: If Morneu is a more valuable player than Jeter, then I pose to you this question: Would you trade Jeter for Morneu? The question to ask is "Would the Yanks have won thier division without Jeter?" and "Would the Twins have won without Morneau?" THe Yanks won their division by 10 games. The Twins barely squeaked into the playoffs, winning their division on the LAST DAY of the season. THe Twins were way back when Morneau got off to a slow start (Mauer hit all year) When Morneau started hitting, the Twins started winning. Morneau is WAY more important to the Twins than Jeter is to the Yanks.   The Yanks might have won their division without Jeter, or they might not have. There's NO WAY ON EARTH the Twins win without Morneau. Therefore, he's more valuable to his team.  Plus, I dont expect Jeter to get personal stat awards anyway. Thats not what he's about. Let A-Rod get the MVP's (hopefully elsewhere), and Jeter get the rings.   But Jeter gets those cock rings for Arod.

spoon

11-21-2006, 10:24 PM

HBox wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: If Morneu is a more valuable player than Jeter, then I pose to you this question: Would you trade Jeter for Morneu? The question to ask is "Would the Yanks have won thier division without Jeter?" and "Would the Twins have won without Morneau?" THe Yanks won their division by 10 games. The Twins barely squeaked into the playoffs, winning their division on the LAST DAY of the season. THe Twins were way back when Morneau got off to a slow start (Mauer hit all year) When Morneau started hitting, the Twins started winning. Morneau is WAY more important to the Twins than Jeter is to the Yanks. The Yanks might have won their division without Jeter, or they might not have. There's NO WAY ON EARTH the Twins win without Morneau. Therefore, he's more valuable to his team. Plus, I dont expect Jeter to get personal stat awards anyway. Thats not what he's about. Let A-Rod get the MVP's (hopefully elsewhere), and Jeter get the rings.  So Morneau wins the MVP because Detroit and Chicago were good and Boston had an off-year? This award is about the PLAYER's value, not the other teams in their division. How about we look at it this way. NY was 97-65. Minn was 96-66. What would NY's record be without Jeter? What would Minn's record be without Morneau. Impossible to get an answer put I'd put down money they'd be even worse without Mauer or Liriano. That they'd be even worse without Santana is a given. This is the guy who wins the MVP? Liriano was great but didn't start till late and didn't last the whole season.  However, I'd throw out Mo, Arod, Damon and others on the yankees to equal your argument.  Hell, you can even add the effect of Abreu too.

Kevin

11-21-2006, 10:35 PM

spoon wrote: HBox wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: If Morneu is a more valuable player than Jeter, then I pose to you this question: Would you trade Jeter for Morneu? The question to ask is "Would the Yanks have won thier division without Jeter?" and "Would the Twins have won without Morneau?" THe Yanks won their division by 10 games. The Twins barely squeaked into the playoffs, winning their division on the LAST DAY of the season. THe Twins were way back when Morneau got off to a slow start (Mauer hit all year) When Morneau started hitting, the Twins started winning. Morneau is WAY more important to the Twins than Jeter is to the Yanks. The Yanks might have won their division without Jeter, or they might not have. There's NO WAY ON EARTH the Twins win without Morneau. Therefore, he's more valuable to his team. Plus, I dont expect Jeter to get personal stat awards anyway. Thats not what he's about. Let A-Rod get the MVP's (hopefully elsewhere), and Jeter get the rings.  So Morneau wins the MVP because Detroit and Chicago were good and Boston had an off-year? This award is about the PLAYER's value, not the other teams in their division. How about we look at it this way. NY was 97-65. Minn was 96-66. What would NY's record be without Jeter? What would Minn's record be without Morneau. Impossible to get an answer put I'd put down money they'd be even worse without Mauer or Liriano. That they'd be even worse without Santana is a given. This is the guy who wins the MVP? Liriano was great but didn't start till late and didn't last the whole season.  However, I'd throw out Mo, Arod, Damon and others on the yankees to equal your argument.  Hell, you can even add the effect of Abreu too.  I said this in my previous post Spoon.Morneu was absaloutly the best non pitcher on that team.Morneu struggled the Year before and the linup was shit, Mornue held that linup together, if he sucks batting 4th, everyone else suffers. Jeter gets also hurt by the protection he had in the linup. Who the fuck else besides Mauer did Morneu have?? Hunter? He never scares me, Mauer?? OHHH watch out he is gunna hit a single, or a double at the most. Micheal Cuddyer? WHO??? Jeter even with the Injuries had Fucking Damon on base 40% of the time, Than Abrau later on who's on fucking base like 50% of the time, than Giambi who before he hurt his wrist was great, Than fucking Arod who in a bad year hit 287, 35 115. Then Jorge, then a fucking 6th to 8th hitter batting 343.I mean come on Yankee fans wake up. This is not a fucking robbery.

spoon

11-21-2006, 10:37 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Frank Thomas was an island of hitting on an inept A's team. One of the worst hitting teams in years to actually win their division. He was therefore, very valuable to his team. And yes, duh, you build a team with defense up the middle and power on the corners. But if he wants to value up the middle defense so highly, where's his vote for Tori Hunter? Maybe the best CF in baseball (despite that one play) who hits well enough to be considered. I agree with the Thomas info, but hey don't forget about Vernon Wells in center buddy.  I think it's pretty close bt the two in the field, but Wells definitely has the edge in terms of offense.  I really didn't know he hit the many hrs though.<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="620"><tbody><tr class="primaryBg"><td> </td><td class="textLg white" colspan="29" align="left">Player Comparison </td><td colspan="11" align="right"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/mlb/images/ad_16x80.gif" border="0" width="80" height="16" /></td><td rowspan="6"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td></tr><tr><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td class="textSm grey" colspan="22" align="left">American League Hitting Stats, 2006 </td><td class="textSm grey" colspan="17" align="right"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=1&readBoxes=tru e&c_id=mlb&venueID=&timeSubFrame=2006&prevPage1=1& baseballScope=AL&teamPosCode=all&timeFrame=1&sitSp lit=&section1=null&compare.y=5&subScope=teamCode&s ortByStat=AB&compare.x=&box1=XXXX116338minO&box2=X XXX150484torO&statSet1=2">Next Stats>></a> </td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="5" height="1" /></td></tr><tr><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="18" /></td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="53" height="1" /></td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="18" /></td><td colspan="37"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td></tr><tr><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td class="textSm grey" rowspan="3" align="left" valign="top"> Select up to 5 players <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/spacer_999999.gif" border="0" width="49" height="1" /> <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/stats/3picks.gif" border="0" width="11" height="11" name="picks1" /> Picks left</td><td bgcolor="#cccccc"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td bgcolor="#cccccc"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=1&readBoxes=tru e&statSet1=null&c_id=mlb&venueID=&prevPage1=1&base ballScope=AL&teamPosCode=all&compare.x=34&timeFram e=1&sitSplit=&section1=null&compare.y=5&subScope=t eamCode&timeSubFrame=2006&box1=XXXX116338minO&box2 =XXXX150484torO&compare.x=&sortByStat=Last_Name&">Player</a> </td><td rowspan="3"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=1&readBoxes=tru e&statSet1=null&c_id=mlb&venueID=&prevPage1=1&base ballScope=AL&teamPosCode=all&compare.x=34&timeFram e=1&sitSplit=&section1=null&compare.y=5&subScope=t eamCode&timeSubFrame=2006&box1=XXXX116338m

Doctor Z

11-21-2006, 11:07 PM

<hr color="cococo" align="left">Bulldogcakes wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: If Morneu is a more valuable player than Jeter, then I pose to you this question: Would you trade Jeter for Morneu?The question to ask is "Would the Yanks have won thier division without Jeter?" and "Would the Twins have won without Morneau?"ÿTHe Yanks won their division by 10 games. The Twins barely squeaked into the playoffs, winning their division on the LAST DAY of the season. THe Twins were way back when Morneau got off to a slow start (Mauer hit all year) When Morneau started hitting, the Twins started winning. Morneau is WAY more important to the Twins than Jeter is to the Yanks. ÿ The Yanks might have won their division without Jeter, or they might not have. There's NO WAY ON EARTH the Twins win without Morneau. Therefore, he's more valuable to his team. ÿÿPlus, I dont expect Jeter to get personal stat awards anyway. Thats not what he's about. Let A-Rod get the MVP's (hopefully elsewhere), and Jeter get the rings. ÿÿ<hr color="cococo" align="left">
The "would the team have made the playoffs without..." argument is irrelevent. The Phillies didn't even make the playoffs. Howard was still the clear MVP. A-Rod won MVPs on a horrible Rangers team. Where you lead your team to doesn't determine MVP status. The whole point here is that Jeter won the MVP, had ONE guy in Chicago not placed him 6th, which was a clearly biased move specifically done to screw Jeter. Everyone can agree that it's obvious Jeter wasn't a 6th place candidate. Anyone who would place him there is doing it to cheat Jeter out of votes. It couldn't be any more obvious.

Doctor Z

11-21-2006, 11:09 PM

<hr color="cococo" align="left">spoon wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: The anti-Jeter sentiment among the baseball world is getting so blatant it's disgraceful. At this point, the only people who DON'T hate Jeter's guts are Yankee fans. Some shitdick from the Chicago Sun Times placed Jeter 6th in the MVP vote. Be a fucking professional and put your differences aside for 2 minutes, and acknowledge that Jeter was the MVP this year. Or at the very least, not a 6th place candidate. But 6th?! How can anyone say that with a straight face? Morneu wasn't even the best player on the Twins, nevermind the American League. Yankee fan or Yankee hater, just about everyone had Jeter winning this thing. This message was edited by Doctor_Z on 11-21-06 @ 5:25 PM And ARod wasn't even the best player on the yanks last year and he won.ÿ So where was the outrage last year when Ortiz got robbed??ÿ Seriously, you can make a case for both players in the race for both of the past 2 years.<hr color="cococo" align="left">
There was outrage, in Boston. I unfortunately had to live there at the time. And Ortiz was at a clear disadvantage, being a DH. Baseball isn't all about hitting. Defense is part of the game too, and A-Rod had an excellent 2005 at 3rd, while Ortiz sat on the bench spitting on his gloves.

HBox

11-21-2006, 11:10 PM

spoon wrote: HBox wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: If Morneu is a more valuable player than Jeter, then I pose to you this question: Would you trade Jeter for Morneu? The question to ask is "Would the Yanks have won thier division without Jeter?" and "Would the Twins have won without Morneau?" THe Yanks won their division by 10 games. The Twins barely squeaked into the playoffs, winning their division on the LAST DAY of the season. THe Twins were way back when Morneau got off to a slow start (Mauer hit all year) When Morneau started hitting, the Twins started winning. Morneau is WAY more important to the Twins than Jeter is to the Yanks. The Yanks might have won their division without Jeter, or they might not have. There's NO WAY ON EARTH the Twins win without Morneau. Therefore, he's more valuable to his team. Plus, I dont expect Jeter to get personal stat awards anyway. Thats not what he's about. Let A-Rod get the MVP's (hopefully elsewhere), and Jeter get the rings.  So Morneau wins the MVP because Detroit and Chicago were good and Boston had an off-year? This award is about the PLAYER's value, not the other teams in their division. How about we look at it this way. NY was 97-65. Minn was 96-66. What would NY's record be without Jeter? What would Minn's record be without Morneau. Impossible to get an answer put I'd put down money they'd be even worse without Mauer or Liriano. That they'd be even worse without Santana is a given. This is the guy who wins the MVP? Liriano was great but didn't start till late and didn't last the whole season. However, I'd throw out Mo, Arod, Damon and others on the yankees to equal your argument. Hell, you can even add the effect of Abreu too. Mariano who missed the last month and a half of the season? A-Rod who went a couple of motnhs without hitting and was throwing shit all over the place? Abreu for two months? Please. Let's be serious here. The only player on the team who was even close to being as important as Jeter this year was someone you didn't even mention, Chien-Ming Wang.

HBox

11-21-2006, 11:11 PM

spoon wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: The anti-Jeter sentiment among the baseball world is getting so blatant it's disgraceful. At this point, the only people who DON'T hate Jeter's guts are Yankee fans. Some shitdick from the Chicago Sun Times placed Jeter 6th in the MVP vote. Be a fucking professional and put your differences aside for 2 minutes, and acknowledge that Jeter was the MVP this year. Or at the very least, not a 6th place candidate. But 6th?! How can anyone say that with a straight face? Morneu wasn't even the best player on the Twins, nevermind the American League. Yankee fan or Yankee hater, just about everyone had Jeter winning this thing. This message was edited by Doctor_Z on 11-21-06 @ 5:25 PM And ARod wasn't even the best player on the yanks last year and he won. So where was the outrage last year when Ortiz got robbed?? Seriously, you can make a case for both players in the race for both of the past 2 years.A-Rod was the best player on the Yanks that year.

Doctor Z

11-22-2006, 12:40 AM

From Rotoworld:
"Ridiculous. Derek Jeter came in second with 12 first-place votes and 306 points. Even though Morneau was, in reality, the third most valuable player on his team, he ranked in the top four on all 28 ballots cast by the writers, giving him 320 points. In third place was David Ortiz, who received 193 points. The rest of the top 10 included Frank Thomas (174), Jermaine Dye (156), Joe Mauer (116), Johan Santana (114), Travis Hafner (64), Vladimir Guerrero (46) and Carlos Guillen (34). Santana received the lone first-place vote not going to Morneau or Jeter, but seven voters left him off the ballot entirely. Morneau wins despite leading the league in no significant categories. He finished eighth in OPS and 10th once OPS is adjusted for ballpark, and since he did that as an average defensive first baseman with little value on the basepaths, he qualifies as perhaps the weakest MVP in decades."I really can't understand how you can be a Yankee fan and be okay with today's MVP decision. It seems to me that there's a general sense among fans of all teams (Red Sox included), that Jeter was unfairly robbed in this year's MVP selection. I've received IM's today from friends (a Dodger fan and a HARDCORE Red Sox fan), both saying "I hate to agree with you, but Jeter got screwed."
I've never seen more non-Yankee fans agree on something pro-Yankee.

This message was edited by Doctor_Z on 11-22-06 @ 4:45 AM

spoon

11-22-2006, 01:33 AM

HBox wrote: spoon wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: The anti-Jeter sentiment among the baseball world is getting so blatant it's disgraceful. At this point, the only people who DON'T hate Jeter's guts are Yankee fans. Some shitdick from the Chicago Sun Times placed Jeter 6th in the MVP vote. Be a fucking professional and put your differences aside for 2 minutes, and acknowledge that Jeter was the MVP this year. Or at the very least, not a 6th place candidate. But 6th?! How can anyone say that with a straight face? Morneu wasn't even the best player on the Twins, nevermind the American League. Yankee fan or Yankee hater, just about everyone had Jeter winning this thing. This message was edited by Doctor_Z on 11-21-06 @ 5:25 PM And ARod wasn't even the best player on the yanks last year and he won. So where was the outrage last year when Ortiz got robbed?? Seriously, you can make a case for both players in the race for both of the past 2 years.A-Rod was the best player on the Yanks that year. No fucking way.  Easily Mo in my mind.

spoon

11-22-2006, 01:34 AM

HBox wrote: spoon wrote: HBox wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: If Morneu is a more valuable player than Jeter, then I pose to you this question: Would you trade Jeter for Morneu? The question to ask is "Would the Yanks have won thier division without Jeter?" and "Would the Twins have won without Morneau?" THe Yanks won their division by 10 games. The Twins barely squeaked into the playoffs, winning their division on the LAST DAY of the season. THe Twins were way back when Morneau got off to a slow start (Mauer hit all year) When Morneau started hitting, the Twins started winning. Morneau is WAY more important to the Twins than Jeter is to the Yanks. The Yanks might have won their division without Jeter, or they might not have. There's NO WAY ON EARTH the Twins win without Morneau. Therefore, he's more valuable to his team. Plus, I dont expect Jeter to get personal stat awards anyway. Thats not what he's about. Let A-Rod get the MVP's (hopefully elsewhere), and Jeter get the rings.  So Morneau wins the MVP because Detroit and Chicago were good and Boston had an off-year? This award is about the PLAYER's value, not the other teams in their division. How about we look at it this way. NY was 97-65. Minn was 96-66. What would NY's record be without Jeter? What would Minn's record be without Morneau. Impossible to get an answer put I'd put down money they'd be even worse without Mauer or Liriano. That they'd be even worse without Santana is a given. This is the guy who wins the MVP? Liriano was great but didn't start till late and didn't last the whole season. However, I'd throw out Mo, Arod, Damon and others on the yankees to equal your argument. Hell, you can even add the effect of Abreu too. Mariano who missed the last month and a half of the season? A-Rod who went a couple of motnhs without hitting and was throwing shit all over the place? Abreu for two months? Please. Let's be serious here. The only player on the team who was even close to being as important as Jeter this year was someone you didn't even mention, Chien-Ming Wang. You're really not getting my point so I'll continue.  Giambi, Cano, Posada and Mussina.

spoon

11-22-2006, 01:41 AM

Truthfully, if defense was valued at all in these votes you'd see Hunter and Wells in the mix at least a little.  They both play arguably the most important defensive positions as well as anyone has over the last 20 years along with very good power hitting, hitting for average, ob%, run production, patience at the plate and basically all five tools.  Is there anything more valued than that from a positional player?  Neither got a singe vote at any level.  If not for the NY spotlight and his history in big games (which he wouldn't have got at other teams) he wouldn't even have been in the top 3.  It would have been all 1st baseman/DH like usual bc those who vote are very fixed on power numbers.  It always has been that way, and if you mock other votes how can you be so up at arms this time. 

crb1

11-22-2006, 04:13 AM

Kevin wrote: crb1 wrote: That depends on your definition of "cheap."  Lilly wants 4 years/$36 million.I think Proctor may be a better option, money-wise, than Meche, since Meche has been looking for $7-8 million a year for 3-4 years.Considering Zito wants 5- 75+. AndI do not think he is much much better than Lily. Procter is a terrible idea. Any sign of fatigue he got rocked last year. How is he going to do pitching more innings?I would agree with you, when comparing him to Zito.  Although, I think Zito would benefit from a trip to the NL, his numbers the last 3 years are pedestrian.  At the same time, sticking Proctor in the rotation would be a huge bargain relative to signing Lilly when you look at what you'd get from them.  I think he would be fine pitching every 5th day, instead of every other game.  All that being said, I think the Yanks will get Lilly, or someone, since they seem thin in actual starters.  They have 2 guys who are questions because of their health (Johnson and Pavano), 2 guys that may not be ready to start in the majors yet (Hughes and Sanchez), and 2 guys the Yanks seem to have doubts about plugging into the rotation permanently (Karstens and Rasner).  So, from that group they can have as many as 6 starters, or as few as 0.If I'm the GM, I'd look into one FA (Lilly, Padilla, Meche, or Wolf), give Karstens the #5 spot, and see what you get in Spring Training.  Typically, the schedules in April have a lot of off days, so there's a good chance they won't need a 5th starter until late April/early May.  That should give Johnson some extra time to get ready.

crb1

11-22-2006, 04:36 AM

spoon wrote: HBox wrote: A-Rod was the best player on the Yanks that year. No fucking way.  Easily Mo in my mind.  Yes.  And the team's MVP since 1996.It's tough to put much stock into the postseason awards though, since writers tend to vote far too subjectively.  The biggest sham ever was 1947.  Ted Williams wins the Triple Crown and LOSES the MVP race to DiMaggio by 1 point because a writer that hated Williams left him off the ballot completely. If he'd even put him 10th, Williams would have won.

Kevin

11-22-2006, 08:33 AM

crb1 wrote: Kevin wrote: crb1 wrote: That depends on your definition of "cheap."  Lilly wants 4 years/$36 million.I think Proctor may be a better option, money-wise, than Meche, since Meche has been looking for $7-8 million a year for 3-4 years.Considering Zito wants 5- 75+. Andi do not think he is much much better than Lily. Procter is a terrible idea. Any sign of fatigue he got rocked last year. How is he going to do pitching more innings?I would agree with you, when comparing him to Vito.  Although, I think Zito would benefit from a trip to the NL, his numbers the last 3 years are pedestrian.  At the same time, sticking Proctor in the rotation would be a huge bargain relative to signing Lilly when you look at what you'd get from them.  I think he would be fine pitching every 5th day, instead of every other game.  All that being said, I think the Yanks will get Lilly, or someone, since they seem thin in actual starters.  They have 2 guys who are questions because of their health (Johnson and Pavano), 2 guys that may not be ready to start in the majors yet (Hughes and Sanchez), and 2 guys the Yanks seem to have doubts about plugging into the rotation permanently (Karstens and Rasner).  So, from that group they can have as many as 6 starters, or as few as 0.If I'm the GM, I'd look into one FA (Lilly, Padilla, Meche, or Wolf), give Karstens the #5 spot, and see what you get in Spring Training.  Typically, the schedules in April have a lot of off days, so there's a good chance they won't need a 5th starter until late April/early May.  That should give Johnson some extra time to get ready.  Totaly forgot about Karstens. He impressed me last year, he had decent stuff and good composere. He went into the 7th a few times, i would not mind him as a 5th at all. Good call CB,  though even with that i still do not want Procter in the rotation. either sign Lily/Meche. Or the other Japanese pitcher. 

This message was edited by Kevin on 11-22-06 @ 12:35 PM

Kevin

11-22-2006, 08:48 AM

spoon wrote: Kev wrote/listed:In the near future, though, the Yankees should have plenty of homegrown options, both in the rotation and in the bullpen. Their last three drafts have brought in several significant arms, and Philip Hughes is arguably the best pitching prospect in the minors. He probably was ready to help New York in September, but the organization played it safe with its top prospect, who nearly doubled his career high for innings in a season. Hughes and fellow starters Tyler Clippard, Jeff Karstens and Steven White, plus relievers T.J. Beam and J. Brent Cox, should be able to contribute in 2007. As some talent graduates to the top, the Yankees replenished the bottom of their farm system, bringing in as much talent as any organization in 2006. New York spent roughly $7 million on the draft, landing four pitchers (Dellin Betances, Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy and Mark Melancon) who jump into their top 10. The Yankees also spent heavily on a dozen international players, including $2 million for Venezuelan catcher Jesus Montero. While he had a poor minicamp in the fall, Montero was widely regarded as having the most power among 2006 international signees. Do you not see the unfair advantage goes to multiple levels here.  The yanks pay draft players a lot, keep all key players and never lose any unless they opt to let them go in free agency, and finally consider internation prospects that they outbid everyone else on and it's considered "homegrown"!!??  Fuck that.  Did the Sox develop and bring up there new international prospect?  No way and how the hell do other teams spend this money on international talent when they can't even spend it on their major league team.  I know the yanks are doing things a little different this year, but it's not like they're the UNICEF or United Way of MLB all of a sudden.  And trust me, they'll be making some big money moves soon enough.  Even though the Abreu move was a ton more than most teams could make over two years.  Totally agree Spoon. Yanks are still spending more than anyone by far, even though its not in FA. I heard somewhere that in the last draft Yanks drafted a ton on players that would have gone in the top of the 1st or in 2nd 3rd round at the latest, because other teams can not afford them. They drafted them in the 5th 6th 7th or even later rounds. for example, this Ian Kennady kid would have gone in the top 5-7 picks in the draft if the teams that were drafting could afford what he was asking. And the kid that Det drafted 7 think would have droped all the way to 21st where the Yankees were if anyother team but Det were drafting there, no other team but Yankees Bos or Mets could afford him, Walker should have been the #1 pick in the entire draft if all things were equal, and he went 7th and would have been 21st if Det was not there, that to me is so freakin ridiculos. How are these bad teams supposed to compete if they can't even draft the players that they need? at least in other sports, if your smart, you could build a team in the draft, you can not even do that  in MLB anymore.They said if the Yanks even sign a fraction of the players that they drafted, their farm would be absolutely stacked, not to mention the Spanish and other int players. So Yea, I agree, do not be fooled that the Yankees all of a sudden are going to stop throwing their money around and give a shit about what baseball thinks. The only reason why they are stopping the FA spending is because it has not worked. So now they are using that money on the Younger players, which i like. They are doing nothing wrong, they are playi

crb1

11-22-2006, 09:45 AM

Kevin wrote: crb1 wrote: I would agree with you, when comparing him to Zito.  Although, I think Zito would benefit from a trip to the NL, his numbers the last 3 years are pedestrian.  At the same time, sticking Proctor in the rotation would be a huge bargain relative to signing Lilly when you look at what you'd get from them.  I think he would be fine pitching every 5th day, instead of every other game.  All that being said, I think the Yanks will get Lilly, or someone, since they seem thin in actual starters.  They have 2 guys who are questions because of their health (Johnson and Pavano), 2 guys that may not be ready to start in the majors yet (Hughes and Sanchez), and 2 guys the Yanks seem to have doubts about plugging into the rotation permanently (Karstens and Rasner).  So, from that group they can have as many as 6 starters, or as few as 0.If I'm the GM, I'd look into one FA (Lilly, Padilla, Meche, or Wolf), give Karstens the #5 spot, and see what you get in Spring Training.  Typically, the schedules in April have a lot of off days, so there's a good chance they won't need a 5th starter until late April/early May.  That should give Johnson some extra time to get ready.  Totaly forgot about Karstens. He impressed me last year, he had decent stuff and good composere. He went into the 7th a few times, i would not mind him as a 5th at all. Good call CB,  though even with that i still do not want Procter in the rotation. either sign Lily/Meche. Or the other Japanese pitcher. From what I read in the Post today, it doesn't sound like they're sure if they'll make a bid for him or not (bidding ends Monday).  Apparently, they viewhim as a 4th or 5th starter, but other teams view him as slightly better than that.  So, there's a good chance that if they make a bid, one of the teams that thinks more highly of him will outbid them.  I guess we'll find out next week.

spoon

11-22-2006, 01:58 PM

crb1, do you really want to go with four pitchers at the start of the year.  There are risks there that I really don't think are nec and it really doesn't seem smart.  I doubt they'll do that with plenty of young arms needed to be evaluated.

crb1

11-22-2006, 03:51 PM

spoon wrote: crb1, do you really want to go with four pitchers at the start of the year.  There are risks there that I really don't think are nec and it really doesn't seem smart.  I doubt they'll do that with plenty of young arms needed to be evaluated. Agreed.  I am not so much against signing FAs as I am in thinking what's available will not really be a huge upgrade over Karstens or Rasner out of the 5 spot think $8 mil per vs. 500K).  I'm fairly certain they'll get one of the tier B FAs.  Lilly's agent seems to think he'll wind up there, even though he has no offer from Cashman.  That could just be a ploy to gain leverage, but he's mentioned them repeatedly being a perfect match for Lilly.  The only other teams he's mentioned are the Jays (obviously) and the Cubs.Normally, the Yankees seem to have 6 or 7 starters headed into Spring Training, and they always seem to have 5 by the time camp breaks.  So, by that logic, going in with just 5 would be risky.  As I said earlier though, they have a group of 6 potential starters, of which anywhere from 0-6 of them is a potential starter.  Hughes and Sanchez are the easy ones to figure out, because they can go to the minors.  I'm not sure how many options, if any, they have left on Karstens and Rasner.  I think Karstens will get a real shot at the #5 spot, unless he gets hurt or just flops in Spring Training.  So, assuming they sign one FA pitcher, they'll still have one slot they need to fill.  The problem at this point is that they are counting on Johnson to fill the 3-spot, but it seems like they have no idea when he'll be ready.  In the end I expect them to sign 2 FA starters and just send the 4 young guys to the minors, and have Pavano in perpetual rehab on the DL.

spoon

11-22-2006, 03:57 PM

Makes sense.  So far the only way the yanks can impress me further this off-season with moves vs. free agents is if they can move Pavano and get more prospects.  But I think they will indeed sign one of the middle level SPs, as will the Jays.  The only difference is that the Jays will only break even with it, while the yanks will gain an arm.  Sure Wright is gone, but that was a calculated move.  This is a something to fill a hole for someone leaving themselves, unless Lilly stays. 

HBox

11-22-2006, 05:03 PM

spoon wrote: HBox wrote: spoon wrote: HBox wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: If Morneu is a more valuable player than Jeter, then I pose to you this question: Would you trade Jeter for Morneu? The question to ask is "Would the Yanks have won thier division without Jeter?" and "Would the Twins have won without Morneau?" THe Yanks won their division by 10 games. The Twins barely squeaked into the playoffs, winning their division on the LAST DAY of the season. THe Twins were way back when Morneau got off to a slow start (Mauer hit all year) When Morneau started hitting, the Twins started winning. Morneau is WAY more important to the Twins than Jeter is to the Yanks. The Yanks might have won their division without Jeter, or they might not have. There's NO WAY ON EARTH the Twins win without Morneau. Therefore, he's more valuable to his team. Plus, I dont expect Jeter to get personal stat awards anyway. Thats not what he's about. Let A-Rod get the MVP's (hopefully elsewhere), and Jeter get the rings.  So Morneau wins the MVP because Detroit and Chicago were good and Boston had an off-year? This award is about the PLAYER's value, not the other teams in their division. How about we look at it this way. NY was 97-65. Minn was 96-66. What would NY's record be without Jeter? What would Minn's record be without Morneau. Impossible to get an answer put I'd put down money they'd be even worse without Mauer or Liriano. That they'd be even worse without Santana is a given. This is the guy who wins the MVP? Liriano was great but didn't start till late and didn't last the whole season. However, I'd throw out Mo, Arod, Damon and others on the yankees to equal your argument. Hell, you can even add the effect of Abreu too. Mariano who missed the last month and a half of the season? A-Rod who went a couple of motnhs without hitting and was throwing shit all over the place? Abreu for two months? Please. Let's be serious here. The only player on the team who was even close to being as important as Jeter this year was someone you didn't even mention, Chien-Ming Wang. You're really not getting my point so I'll continue. Giambi, Cano, Posada and Mussina. I don't think you're getting my point. Every single player you mentioned went through either a substantial period of injury or inconsistency. Jeter and Wang were the only consistent things all season.If we are going to go into all this outside stuff, how about the fact that Morneau only managed 34 Hrs even though he was playing half of his games in a launching pad? In comparison, Jeter played half of his games in a pitcher's park, especially for righties.

HBox

11-22-2006, 05:13 PM

spoon wrote: Truthfully, if defense was valued at all in these votes you'd see Hunter and Wells in the mix at least a little. They both play arguably the most important defensive positions as well as anyone has over the last 20 years along with very good power hitting, hitting for average, ob%, run production, patience at the plate and basically all five tools. Is there anything more valued than that from a positional player? Neither got a singe vote at any level. If not for the NY spotlight and his history in big games (which he wouldn't have got at other teams) he wouldn't even have been in the top 3. It would have been all 1st baseman/DH like usual bc those who vote are very fixed on power numbers. It always has been that way, and if you mock other votes how can you be so up at arms this time.  Again, it's not the quality of defense that's the issue here, it's that position players up the middle make bigger contributions with their defense regardless of how well they play the position (as long as its passable). And it's harder to get big offensive stats out of players at these positions. So when you have a player putting up stats like Jeter or Wells or Mauer at those positions its incredibly more valuable. The quality of that defense is a much smaller consideration.I'm just going to say it: Morneau's season was nothing special. You expect that kind of production out of a big time first baseman. You want to see a big season? Look at Ryan Howard or Albert Pujols. Morneau can't touch them. 4 other first basemen in the AL put up comparable seasons to Morneau. 9 if you include the entire league. And 3 put up clearly better. You can replace relatively easily what Morneau did.And, as an aside, yes, Vernon Wells deserved the MVP more than Morneau. 

This message was edited by HBox on 11-22-06 @ 9:14 PM

Bulldogcakes

11-22-2006, 05:37 PM

HBox wrote:  Bunch of defensive wizards huh? I bet half of these guys put their gloves on backwards. And I count 6 position players on the list of 28 who played somewhere up the middle.  That was absolutely not the point. Furthermore, the actual point was so obvious that I believe you are purposely misinterpreting it. Just playing those positions with average defense makes their defensive contribution higher. The point is that the defensive contribution of players up the middle is greater, and the average offensive ability of players there lower that when you get a player at those positions putting up good numbers they are more valuable than a corner guy with better raw numbers. Like I said there are a few players who can replicate what Morneau did. Jeter? No.  I understand it completely and stop trying to reinvent the wheel. The MVP generally goes to the HITTER who had the best year while taking into account his teams success. All this up the middle stuff is stat geek nonsense. And if you looked at the list I posted, half the MVP winners were absolute hacks defensively. You're over thinking this, its a hitters award. Are there other players with similar or better #s than Morneau? Yes. Are there any on the Twins? No. Of the players who had the big years, who contributed most to his teams success? Morneau. Take Jeter off the Yanks (and Sheff and Matsui) and they STILL have a 155 million payroll, which is STILL tops in all of Baseball. Dont tell me they couldn't win without Jeter, they won their division by 10 games. Take Morneau off the Twins and they're toast.   Was there some rule change where they decided that only HRs could score runs anymore? Leading the league in OBP without any power hitters to knock them home is a great way to also lead the league in men LOB.And hitting 50 solo HRs is pretty useless too.   No its not. If you hit 50 HR's you have at least scored 50 runs. If you have a .450 OBP you haven't scored any. Look at the teams that lead the league in runs scored each year. Power laden lineups. Look at last years White Sox. 2nd in runs scored and 8th in OBP. Why? Lead all of baseball in HR's. And Texas in 2005, 3rd in runs scored, 15th in OBP. Why? again, lead all of baseball in HR's. I could keep going. And again, you want to do both, get on base and drive in runs. But without the RBI guys getting on base is meaningless.     I dont give a fuck about OBP if the guy never scores. Again you are valuing a player on the contributions of others. All a player can do is get on base. And guys like Jeter and Mauer dont magically create runs all by themselves, unless their stealing home 100+ times a year. They contribute by getting on base in the first place. Power hitters can't drive in runs by themselves.     Oh so you agree. You need RB

Bulldogcakes

11-22-2006, 05:49 PM

spoon wrote: [quote]Bulldogcakes wrote: Frank Thomas was an island of hitting on an inept A's team. One of the worst hitting teams in years to actually win their division. He was therefore, very valuable to his team. And yes, duh, you build a team with defense up the middle and power on the corners. But if he wants to value up the middle defense so highly, where's his vote for Tori Hunter? Maybe the best CF in baseball (despite that one play) who hits well enough to be considered. I agree with the Thomas info, but hey don't forget about Vernon Wells in center buddy. I think it's pretty close bt the two in the field, but Wells definitely has the edge in terms of offense. I really didn't know he hit the many hrs though.<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="620"><tbody><tr class="primaryBg"><td> </td><td class="textLg white" colspan="29" align="left">Player Comparison </td><td colspan="11" align="right"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/mlb/images/ad_16x80.gif" border="0" width="80" height="16" /></td><td rowspan="6"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td></tr><tr><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td class="textSm grey" colspan="22" align="left">American League Hitting Stats, 2006 </td><td class="textSm grey" colspan="17" align="right"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=1&readBoxes=tru e&c_id=mlb&venueID=&timeSubFrame=2006&prevPage1=1& baseballScope=AL&teamPosCode=all&timeFrame=1&sitSp lit=&section1=null&compare.y=5&subScope=teamCode&s ortByStat=AB&compare.x=&box1=XXXX116338minO&box2=X XXX150484torO&statSet1=2">Next Stats>></a> </td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="5" height="1" /></td></tr><tr><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="18" /></td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="53" height="1" /></td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="18" /></td><td colspan="37"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td></tr><tr><td><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td class="textSm grey" rowspan="3" align="left" valign="top"> Select up to 5 players <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/spacer_999999.gif" border="0" width="49" height="1" /> <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/stats/3picks.gif" border="0" width="11" height="11" name="picks1" /> Picks left</td><td bgcolor="#cccccc"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td bgcolor="#cccccc"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=1&readBoxes=tru e&statSet1=null&c_id=mlb&venueID=&prevPage1=1&base ballScope=AL&teamPosCode=all&compare.x=34&timeFram e=1&sitSplit=&section1=null&compare.y=5&subScope=t eamCode&timeSubFrame=2006&box1=XXXX116338minO&box2 =XXXX150484torO&compare.x=&sortByStat=Last_Name&">Player</a> </td><td rowspan="3"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1" /></td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=1&readBoxes=tru e&statSet1=null&c_id=mlb&venueID=&prevPage1=1&base ballScope=AL&teamPosCode=all&compare.x=34&timeFram e=1&sitSplit=&section1=null&compare.y=5&subScope=t eamCode

Bulldogcakes

11-22-2006, 06:00 PM

HBox wrote: spoon wrote:Liriano was great but didn't start till late and didn't last the whole season. However, I'd throw out Mo, Arod, Damon and others on the yankees to equal your argument. Hell, you can even add the effect of Abreu too. Mariano who missed the last month and a half of the season? A-Rod who went a couple of motnhs without hitting and was throwing shit all over the place? Abreu for two months? Please. Let's be serious here. The only player on the team who was even close to being as important as Jeter this year was someone you didn't even mention, Chien-Ming Wang.  Jeter was great all year, right? Wang was good all year, right? Where were the Yankees before the Abreau trade? In 2nd place two games behind the Red Sox. Everyone knows what happened after that.

Kevin

11-22-2006, 06:06 PM

<img src="http://dailyblabber.ivillage.com/entertainment/archives/JETERBIEL.jpg" border="0" width="310" height="200" /> Hi I'm Derek Jeter, in one had i have 4 rings, and on the other hand i have this piece of ass, I could not care less about MVP awards, because i am too busy banging the hell out of her and thinking about winning one for the thumb, so why should you care??

This message was edited by Kevin on 11-22-06 @ 10:24 PM

Don Stugots

11-22-2006, 06:19 PM

HBox

11-22-2006, 06:43 PM

I understand it completely and stop trying to reinvent the wheel. The MVP generally goes to the HITTER who had the best year while taking into account his teams success. All this up the middle stuff is stat geek nonsense. And if you looked at the list I posted, half the MVP winners were absolute hacks defensively. You're over thinking this, its a hitters award.Are there other players with similar or better #s than Morneau? Yes. Are there any on the Twins? No. Of the players who had the big years, who contributed most to his teams success? Morneau. Take Jeter off the Yanks (and Sheff and Matsui) and they STILL have a 155 million payroll, which is STILL tops in all of Baseball. Dont tell me they couldn't win without Jeter, they won their division by 10 games. Take Morneau off the Twins and they're toast.  No, it's actually called Most Valuable Player. I'm not saying a word about Ryan Howard winning the MVP. I think Albert Pujols was a marginally better candidate but they were both great this year. It was close and could have gone either way. Despite being a 1B they actually put up huge numbers, even for the position. Morneau can't touch either of them.Any player can win the award. It's about being valuable. What Morneau did is replaceable. Pujols? No. Howard? No. How much worse would the Twins be if you swapped Paul Konerko and Justin Morneau? The Twins would still be going to the postseason.And it doesn't matter how close the Twins race was. You gonna take away Barry Bonds 2003 MVP beacuse the Giants won their division by 15.5 games? By your logic Sammy Sosa should have won it even though he had a clearly inferior season because their pennant race was closer.  No its not. If you hit 50 HR's you have at least scored 50 runs. If you have a .450 OBP you haven't scored any. Look at the teams that lead the league in runs scored each year. Power laden lineups. Look at last years White Sox. 2nd in runs scored and 8th in OBP. Why? Lead all of baseball in HR's. And Texas in 2005, 3rd in runs scored, 15th in OBP. Why? again, lead all of baseball in HR's. I could keep going. And again, you want to do both, get on base and drive in runs. But without the RBI guys getting on base is meaningless. [color=navy]In the last 6 years the team leading the AL in runs scored ALSO lead in OBP. In that same time frame, how many times did the league leader in runs scored lead the league in HRs? Once. In 2001 the Seattle Mariners led the league in runs scored but had only 169 HRs, 8th in the league. But they led in OBP.If you look over the years there is much more causality in OBP than HRs. You'll occasionally see teams with around 200 Hrs in the middle or at the end of the league in scroing. This year the Devil Rays hit 190 HRs and finished dead last in runs scored. You know what else they were dead last in? You guessed it, OBP, with an anemic .314. Go and check for yourself. You will see that OBP is much more predictive of runs scored than HRs.<a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/">No really, go here and check. Pick your year.</a>  Oh so you agree. You need RBI guys to make OBP meaningful. No wait, we cant value players based on the contributions of others. Make up your mind, please. Guys like Jeter do their job by getting on base. You can't score if you won't get on base. [quote]"Hello conscience? Is that you I hear talking?" I'M making up a brand new interpret

HBox

11-22-2006, 06:46 PM

Kevin wrote: <img src="http://dailyblabber.ivillage.com/entertainment/archives/JETERBIEL.jpg" border="0" width="310" height="200" /> Hi I'm Derek Jeter, in one had i have 4 rings, and on the other hand i have this piece of ass, I could not care less about MVP awards, because i am too busy banging the hell out of her and thinking about winning one for the thumb, so why should you care?? This message was edited by Kevin on 11-22-06 @ 10:24 PMYou're right. What am I thinking, talking about a Yankee player in a Yankee thread. I'm fucking insane. The offseason hinges upon the idea that I have on trades and free agency. What am I gonna do when Brian Cashman calls and asks for my input?Stop pulling a Moe.

Don Stugots

11-22-2006, 06:47 PM

i think (and i may be wrong) but kevin is just breaking balls.  i know i am.

Kevin

11-22-2006, 06:48 PM

Nevermind, Stu said it for me.

This message was edited by Kevin on 11-22-06 @ 10:49 PM

HBox

11-22-2006, 07:59 PM

Why the fuck does anyone give a shit?? I do not care about MVPs. You think Pujols would trade in his ring for The MVP he did not win?? Jeter wants to win rings, he could not care any less about awards. I do not understand why Yankee fans have become so wraped up in player awards? Who gives a shit. If Jeter wins or does not win the MVP does not change that we have lost in the 1st round 2 years in a row.  96-2000, Not one Yankee was in contention for any major award. We won team titles not individual. Clemens won the CY in 01, guess what?? our streak ended. Yankees have been top 5 in MVP balloting every year since then, 1 year one won, and guess what??? NO RINGSS. That is all i care about. I want to shut the Yankee hater up and make them suffer, and the only way that happens is CHAMPIONSHIPS! Not meaningless fucking individual awards. Can we get back to what matters?? Free agents and what the team has to do to win Titles. Thank God professionals run the team and not fans,. If fans did , nothing would fucking get donethis previous reply is what made me think it was more than just breakin balls.

Kevin

11-22-2006, 08:07 PM

HBox wrote: Why the fuck does anyone give a shit?? I do not care about MVPs. You think Pujols would trade in his ring for The MVP he did not win?? Jeter wants to win rings, he could not care any less about awards. I do not understand why Yankee fans have become so wraped up in player awards? Who gives a shit. If Jeter wins or does not win the MVP does not change that we have lost in the 1st round 2 years in a row.  96-2000, Not one Yankee was in contention for any major award. We won team titles not individual. Clemens won the CY in 01, guess what?? our streak ended. Yankees have been top 5 in MVP balloting every year since then, 1 year one won, and guess what??? NO RINGSS. That is all i care about. I want to shut the Yankee hater up and make them suffer, and the only way that happens is CHAMPIONSHIPS! Not meaningless fucking individual awards. Can we get back to what matters?? Free agents and what the team has to do to win Titles. Thank God professionals run the team and not fans,. If fans did , nothing would fucking get done this previous reply is what made me think it was more than just breakin balls.Well, i ment it there, here i was just breakin balls.

Doctor Z

11-23-2006, 05:45 PM

<hr color="cococo" align="left">STUGOTS1 wrote: Kevin wrote: <img src="http://dailyblabber.ivillage.com/entertainment/archives/JETERBIEL.jpg" border="0" width="310" height="200" /> Hi I'm Derek Jeter, in one had i have 4 rings, and on the other hand i have this piece of ass, I could not care less about MVP awards, because i am too busy banging the hell out of her and thinking about winning one for then thumb, so why should you care??ÿi just came alittle bit.ÿ i am not sure if it was due to seeing jessica biel or thinking about jeters rings.ÿ<hr color="cococo" align="left">
I came, but for neither of those reasons.
<hr color="cococo" align="left">Bulldogcakes wrote: [quote]ÿEDIT-Wha..wha. . .did Spoon just call me "buddy"? I . . . . I'm speechless. ÿÿÿÿÿÿ<hr color="cococo" align="left">
Hey, it's the holiday season.

Doctor Z

11-24-2006, 11:42 AM

The greatest baseball game ever played is currently airing on YES.

cougarjake13

11-24-2006, 12:35 PM

Doctor_Z wrote: The greatest baseball game ever played is currently airing on YES. game 7 of the 2004 alcs ???

Kevin

11-24-2006, 12:38 PM

cougarjake13 wrote: Doctor_Z wrote: The greatest baseball game ever played is currently airing on YES. game 7 of the 2004 alcs ??? This is TV N Korea/ Iran your talking about here. According to Yes we have not lost a game in the history of our glorious franchise

Kevin

11-25-2006, 08:56 AM

<table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="561" height="2112" class="tablehead"><tbody><tr class="stathead"><td colspan="3">Friday, November 24</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center">*><img src="http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6368.jpg" border="0" alt="Rod Barajas" />* class="bi"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6368">Rod Barajas</a>*>Rangers</td><td>* style="margin: 2px 0pt"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tor">Blue Jays</a>?</td><td>* class="bi">Oh, Canada!*>Nov 24 - Free-agent catch Rod Barajas, formerly with Texas, is expected to sign with the Blue Jays next week, if he passes a physical early in the week.</td></tr><tr class="stathead"><td colspan="3">Wednesday, November 22</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center">*><img src="http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/3340.jpg" border="0" alt="Roger Clemens" />* class="bi"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=3340">Roger Clemens</a>*>Astros</td><td>* style="margin: 2px 0pt"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=hou">Astros</a>* style="margin: 2px 0pt"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos">Red Sox</a></td><td>* class="bi">Career coming full circle?*>Nov 22 - Even if the Red Sox succeed in signing Daisuke Matsuzaka, they could also target Roger Clemens. According to the Boston Globe, the Sox are not averse to finding a way to make room for Clemens if he elected to end his career with Boston. There have been internal discussions about gauging Clemens's interest in ending his Hall of Fame run as a closer, although that would seem to be in direct conflict with Clemens's preference for free time between starts to see his family. </td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center">*><img src="http://espn.go.com/photo/2006/1102/mlb_w_matsuzka_65.jpg" border="0" />* class="bi">Daisuke Matsuzaka</td><td> </td><td>* class="bi">Money talks ...*>Nov 22 - The Red Sox have until Dec. 15 to ink Daisuke Matsuzaka to a contract. According to the Boston Herald, the 26-year-old right-hander liked the club's first pitch. "I have a feeling I want to come [to Boston] next season, and I hope I can be [in Boston] in a good environment," Matsuzaka told Japanese reporters in Los Angeles after his weekend dinner with top Red Sox brass at chairman Tom Werner's house. The Sox and agent Scott Boras have vowed not to make public statements about the Matsuzaka negotiations, The Boston Globe reports. "We're going to a create a calm, peaceful environment to get something done," GM Theo Epstein told the newspaper. "We're going to shy away from giving daily updates or updates at all. We're going to negotiate it in peace and quiet and try to get something done."</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center">*><img src="http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/4122.jpg" border="0" alt="Tom Glavine" />* class="bi"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4122">Tom Glavine</a>*>Mets</td><td>* style="margin: 2px 0pt"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=atl">Braves</a>?* style="margin: 2px 0pt"><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym">Mets</a>?</td><td>* class="bi">Atlanta or New York?*><s

spoon

11-26-2006, 09:58 PM

I don't get it, he doesn't look like Snoogans to me at all.  Yeah, they both use baseball hats here and there and are white, but that's really not enough.

Kevin

11-27-2006, 04:15 PM

spoon wrote: I don't get it, he doesn't look like Snoogans to me at all. Yeah, they both use baseball hats here and there and are white, but that's really not enough. Come on, he so does look like Snoogans.

cougarjake13

11-27-2006, 05:42 PM

Kevin wrote: spoon wrote: I don't get it, he doesn't look like Snoogans to me at all. Yeah, they both use baseball hats here and there and are white, but that's really not enough.  Come on, he so does look like Snoogans.maybe after a few dozen jelly donuts

spoon

11-27-2006, 11:34 PM

And six weeks straight of ten bong hits per day.

ralphbxny

11-28-2006, 06:11 AM

anyone know anything about this other Japaneese pitcher the Yanks and Mets are bidding on?

Doctor Z

11-28-2006, 12:55 PM

He didn't eat his vegatables, and died.

HBox

11-28-2006, 01:01 PM

ralphbxny wrote: anyone know anything about this other Japaneese pitcher the Yanks and Mets are bidding on?The winner of the bid will be announced tonight. Sports Illustrated is reporting a rumor that the winning bid is $25 million. For a guy who most scouts thinkis a 4-5 starter.If that rumored winning bid is true I hope the Yanks didn't win the bid. But it probably is since the Hanshin Tigers accepted it so quickly. Bidding closed yesterday.

TheMojoPin

11-28-2006, 01:11 PM

Personally, I hope the Cubs DID go crazy and put in that huge bid.  For teams like them and the others with big money, who cares about the posting fee?  It doesn't come out of payroll or involve luxury tax.  It's cool, baby.  The $25 million does not dictate what kind of contract he'll get.

Kevin

11-28-2006, 02:40 PM

<h1><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2678036">Yanks win Igawa rights with $25M bid</a></h1>

BoondockSaint

11-28-2006, 02:44 PM

This is obviously just a block to keep him away from the Mets.

HBox

11-28-2006, 02:47 PM

FUCK.

Bulldogcakes

11-28-2006, 02:55 PM

Igawa went 14-9 last season with a 2.97 ERA in Japan. He struck out 194 to tie for the Central League lead, adding to the strikeout titles he won in 2002 and 2004. Igawa has an 86-60 record with a 3.15 ERA. He would have to play in Japan for three more seasons before he could become a free agent.*-- next five grafs from Newsday -*Igawa faced a touring team of MLB stars this past month, which included Mets stars <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7066">Jose Reyes</a> and <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7382">David Wright</a>. Igawa, who faced the MLB stars after a month layoff, gave up a home run to Wright and walked six batters in Japan's 7-2 loss.Reyes was impressed with Igawa."He has good stuff," Reyes told Newsday. "He throws hard and has a good changeup."Wright, however, gave Igawa mixed reviews."I just don't know," Wright told Newsday. "I'd have to see him when he's in midseason form. You send a guy up there after a month layoff and you can't get a handle on a guy. But as far as a lefty goes, he has a sneaky fastball. I thought he threw, for a lefty, an average to above-average fastball, an above-average changeup, and his slider was a little flat. But with a month off, who knows? Could be any number of reasons."   And to be fair, sliders and changeups are feel pitches that take pitchers longer to get right in spring training. I always like having lefties in Yankee stadium. We'll see how he works out as a starter. If he doesn't, he could be an effective lefty out of the pen. If nothing else, its a very different look than most Yankee pitchers have had in recent years.  As far as the money goes, 25 mil sounds like alot to me, but if they sign him for another 25 mil for 4 years its 12.5 per year. Still alot for an unproven guy, but managable. Its not 32 mil per that we're hearing for Matsuzaka. How funny will it be if this guy faces Matsuzaka in Boston and beats him?   

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-28-06 @ 6:58 PM

Kevin

11-28-2006, 02:57 PM

He uses a four-seamer in the 88-91 mph range, with that 92+ capability on occasion,  and an above-average change that I had in the 78-81 mph area.  His breaking ball is a solid slider he’ll throw mostly to lefthanders, though he did use it to backdoor some right-handed bats.<a href="http://prospectinsider.wordpress.com/2006/11/11/scouting-report-kei-igawa-lhp/">http://prospectinsider.wordpress.com/2006/11/11/scouting-report-kei-igawa-lhp/</a>

This message was edited by Kevin on 11-28-06 @ 7:02 PM

lleeder

11-28-2006, 03:04 PM

What a waste of time that was when the Mets sent tohose players to Japan last month. The gave the prime minister a Met jersey. That was time well spent. Now the Yanks got the guy they wanted and the Red Sox got the other guy. Maybe theres a leftover Japanese shortstop/second basemen available.

HBox

11-28-2006, 03:05 PM

I guess that the Yanks weren't thrilled with what was on the free agent market and what it would cost. And I guess they think highly of this guy. Right now I'm not sure whether the $51 million bid or this one was worse. All that really matters is how these guys perform anyway. I'd hope that the good news in this is that Igawa likely doesn't have the clout that Matsui or Matsuzaka have so he probably won't try and get one of those 3 and out clauses that would grant him free agency at the end of his initial contract if not signed to an extension. If so, the Yanks would own his exclusive rights for 6 years no matter what his iniital contract is. Which makes the bid somewhat more valuable in that if Igawa turns out to be good the Yanks own him.

HBox

11-28-2006, 03:07 PM

lleeder wrote: What a waste of time that was when the Mets sent tohose players to Japan last month. The gave the prime minister a Met jersey. That was time well spent. Now the Yanks got the guy they wanted and the Red Sox got the other guy. Maybe theres a leftover Japanese shortstop/second basemen available.<a href="http://www.rotowire.com/roto_to_gnews.htm?ID=205958&sport=mlb" target="_blank">Too late. The Devil Rays already got him.</a>

TheMojoPin

11-28-2006, 03:09 PM

Who cares what the bid was?  Doesn't mean you have to pay him an insane contract.  The bid cost is seperate from payroll and any luxury costs, relaaaaaaax.  Granted, I see this guy as a #3 starter at best, but he's gonna be handy to have around, and Lord knows you guys need the pitching.

Bulldogcakes

11-28-2006, 05:00 PM

<a href="http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2006/11/juicy_gossip_on.html" title=" Story"> Story</a> There's a growing belief inside the Astros front office that Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte will pitch elsewhere next season. Agent Randy Hendricks hasn't told Drayton McLane or Tim Purpura anything definitive. He has said that Pettitte and Clemens are undecided about playing next season. Still, the longer it plays out, the more rumors are floated in New York and Boston newspapers, the more the Astros are convinced that Clemens and Pettitte simply don't want to pitch for them. Reporters aren't making up these stories about <a href="http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061107&content_id=1736029&vkey=n ews_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb">Clemens and Pettitte pitching for the Red Sox and Yankees</a>. They're coming from somewhere. If Clemens and Pettitte wanted to end the speculation, they could do with a one-sentence statement: ''We don't know if we're going to pitch next season, but if we do pitch again, it'll be only for the Astros.''--Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte. Don't tell me this delay is a negotiating ploy. They can both get pretty much whatever they want. One lunch with McLane and Purpura would be enough to finish a deal. It's not complicated. Instead, everything is vague. Other teams are constantly mentioned. I sense fans are tired of the drama. If Clemens and Pettitte can't decide, move on without them. The Astros aren't going to get two pitchers as good as Clemens and Pettitte, but if they wait for an answer, they could be left with nothing. If they do sign or trade for a veteran starter, it might give Clemens and Pettitte the excuse to sign elsewhere. Maybe that's what they're looking for. My opinion is that Clemens will end up pitching somewhere next season and that he's clearly fascinated with the idea of returning to the Red Sox or Yankees. As for Pettitte, I think he's leaning strongly toward retirement. I also think Hendricks is exploring the market and allowing Andy to consider all his options before making a final decision.

lleeder

11-28-2006, 05:08 PM

I would love to see Andy come back to New York, as for Clemens I never thought he was really money. When he won alot of games with the Yankees I wasn't overly impressed. He will wither if he returns to the American League.

Kevin

11-28-2006, 05:58 PM

NEW YORK -- The <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nyy">New York Yankees</a> won the bidding for Japanese pitcher Kei Igawa when the Hanshin Tigers accepted their offer of about $26 million Tuesday.<table border="0" cellspacing="0" align="right"><tbody><tr><td width="2"> </td><td width="65"><img src="http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2006/1128/mlb_a_igawa_65.jpg" border="0" alt="Kei Igawa" width="65" height="90" align="right" /></td></tr><tr><td width="2"> </td><td width="65">Igawa</td></tr></tbody></table> After the bidding closed Monday, the Tigers were informed of the amount of the high bid, but not which team made it. The <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym">New York Mets</a> bid about $15 million for Igawa, a baseball official said on condition of anonymity because the amounts of losing bids are not disclosed.

spoon

11-28-2006, 07:03 PM

BoondockSaint wrote: This is obviously just a block to keep him away from the Mets. Nice work my son!

Kevin

11-28-2006, 07:07 PM

spoon wrote: BoondockSaint wrote: This is obviously just a block to keep him away from the Mets. Nice work my son! That old gag. Besides,that is not how things work in Yankee land (<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smoke.gif" border="0" />) 

This message was edited by Kevin on 11-28-06 @ 11:07 PM

HBox

11-28-2006, 07:13 PM

BoondockSaint wrote: This is obviously just a block to keep him away from the Mets.Ooooh, sooorrrryyy. The correct paranoid Yankee fan conspiracy theory is "The Yanks bid for Igawa so they can sign him to an over priced contract and force the Red Sox to spend even more on Matsuzaka."I wish I was kidding. 

This message was edited by HBox on 11-28-06 @ 11:14 PM

keithy_19

11-28-2006, 09:20 PM

This doesn't have anything to do with this offseason, but whatever happened to Chuck Knoblauch? I used to love hearing Sterlin choke on his name everytime he was in a play. And he also threw at Oberman's mom. <img src="/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/thumbup.gif" border="0" width="38" height="20" />

spoon

11-28-2006, 09:29 PM

One of my co-workers met him and Jeter at a bar in the city and she said he was a frat guy type asshole.  She was/is a huge yank fan and she hated him ever since.  Now this girl I'm talking about is hot as hell and he was an ass to her, so imagine how much of an ass he'd be to a normal chap like us.  She said Jeter was cool, very quiet and that's when I stated it's bc she didn't look like Arod!  Seriously though, she said Jeter was a cool guy and that bothers me.H, I've heard that theory on your yanks with boston as well and it really is getting as old.  They both just need to focus on their own team again.  No matter how much you try, both will make big pickups so I'd just focus on what you yourself can control.

crb1

11-29-2006, 03:58 AM

$26 million for a guy whose stuff sounds eerily like Frank Tanana during his stint with the Yankees?  I'm shocked they actually bid that much, although it does say a couple of things: 1)  The FA pitching market is VERY thin and they're willing to throw some cash at this guy and take a chance.  2)  The FA pitchers that are available are asking for a ton of cash (4 yrs/$40 mil), and it won't cost much more to get Igawa. I guess it could be worse.  They could have thrown $80 million at Zito, and watched him get torched for the next 5-6 years.

Bulldogcakes

11-30-2006, 03:24 PM

<h1><a href="http://www.nypost.com/seven/11302006/sports/yankees/yanks_on_hold_for_andy__rog_yankees_george_king.ht m" title="YANKS ON HOLD FOR ANDY, ROG">YANKS ON HOLD FOR ANDY, ROG</a></h1> Those are the dilemmas facing Yankee GM Brian Cashman as he prepares for the winter meetings next week in Orlando. "We have talked to the Yankees about [Pettitte and Clemens]," agent Randy Hendricks told The Post via e-mail yesterday. "We have also talked to other teams as well. No decision has been made, but I expect one to be made before Christmas by Andy. Who knows about Roger?"  So far the opening day rotation is Wang, Mussina, Pavano and Igawa. You can usually use 4 starters in April, but I'd have to see the schedule to see how many off days there actually are. Johnson should return in May, Hughes and Sanchez as back up plans for whoever gets hurt or is ineffective. Not great, but not awful either. Would look much better with Pettite at #3 and then you could go with 5 in April and bring up the rookies when they're ready, as opposed to when you need them.   Also I read that Igawa is expected to sign in the 4 to 4.5 range for 4 years. Making the total package about 43 mil for 4 years. Not awful for a 3-5 starter, and only the salary counts against the cap. Which saves the Yanks a 40% luxury tax hit.

Don Stugots

11-30-2006, 03:55 PM

i would love to see Andy back on the Yanks.  i never wanted him to leave.  Roger, i am on the fence about. 

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2006, 04:29 PM

<a href="http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=170348" title=" Story"> Story</a>  <table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td height="8"></td></tr></tbody></table>    The <a href="http://news.bostonherald.com/search/?searchSite=true&keyword=Yankees&mode=all&sorting= pubdate">Yankees</a> have been awfully quiet this offseason, and it is interesting how in the last couple of days Rodriguez has been whispered more and more. By most accounts, the White Sox would like to trade for Rodriguez with Joe Crede and one of two pitchers, Mark Buehrle or Freddy Garcia as bait. <table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td height="8"></td></tr></tbody></table>    Publicly, Rodriguez’ agent, Scott Boras, and Yankees GM Brian Cashman have said there will be no trade. Given the keg of gunpowder and pile of cash that always seems within reach of owner George Steinbrenner, the volume on Rodriguez swap-talk could start dialing up this week.

Kevin

12-04-2006, 04:34 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: <a href="http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=170348" title=" Story"> Story</a>   <table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td height="8"> </td></tr></tbody></table> The <a href="http://news.bostonherald.com/search/?searchSite=true&keyword=Yankees&mode=all&sorting= pubdate">Yankees</a> have been awfully quiet this offseason, and it is interesting how in the last couple of days Rodriguez has been whispered more and more. By most accounts, the White Sox would like to trade for Rodriguez with Joe Crede and one of two pitchers, Mark Buehrle or Freddy Garcia as bait. <table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td height="8"> </td></tr></tbody></table> Publicly, Rodriguez’ agent, Scott Boras, and Yankees GM Brian Cashman have said there will be no trade. Given the keg of gunpowder and pile of cash that always seems within reach of owner George Steinbrenner, the volume on Rodriguez swap-talk could start dialing up this week.   If Cashman even thinks about that deal he should be fired, ON THE SPOT! after getting what we got for Sheff, nothing but a boat load of top grade prospects should be brought back for Arod. This is a man on a bad year gives you 287 35 121. Fuck the White Sox and their bullshit sub par offers. You start with Brandon fucking Macarthy or you do not even bother picking up the FUCKING PHONE! God the Whitesox fucking Bug me. I want no part of their going down hill fucking pitchers. No part! 

This message was edited by Kevin on 12-4-06 @ 8:37 PM