OFFICIAL RED SOX Offseason thread... [Archive]

A.J.

09-22-2006, 03:56 AM

Doctor_Z wrote: 9 days actually. And they are a single loss away from being statistically eliminated from the playoffs. So yeah, it IS over.  If I can contribute anything to this thread as a Yankee fan, I'd say make it your top priority to get a bullpen in order. Timlin is 90, Foulke is done, and Papelbon will be starting. #1) Bullpen, #2) A centerfielder who can hit, #3) hold on to Manny, cuz you KNOW he'll be asking for a trade AGAIN, as he does EVERY off-season. I don't know about Timlin.  Had he not pitched in that stupid World Baseball Classic, he might not have injured hinself the way he did.  With rest and recouperation in the offseason, we may see that he may have one more year left in him.Foulkie looked pretty decent in his last couple of outings.  He's probably done as a closer but he has done alright as a reliever/set-up guy.EDIT: Oh, in terms of Coco.  I don't think his finger healed properly.  He made some great defensive plays but I read that everytime he made contact with the ball, he would have pain shoot up from the hand up to the arm.  I'm not ready to give up on him yet or say he was a flop.Manny?  One day at a time there.

This message was edited by A.J. on 9-22-06 @ 8:26 AM

crb1

09-22-2006, 04:10 AM

Has anyone else heard this idea floating around:  Clement for Pavano.I actually think it may make sense since I think Pavano grew up a Sox fan and may be more apt to put forth an effort to actually pitch there.  And Clement could stand to go anywhere that's not Boston at this point.  This would basically be a "let's see what happens" deal, although it will never happen since neither team wants to trade a player to another and watch them do well.

A.J.

09-22-2006, 04:18 AM

Yeah I heard that.  I don't like that deal.  I mean, at least Clement pitched this year.And there was also talk that if A-Rod fucks up in the playoffs, he might want out of NY so Boston would make a move for him again. If A-Rod thought that NY's fans and media were tough, Boston's aren't much better.

crb1

09-22-2006, 04:42 AM

I doubt the trade would ever happen, since I think the Yanks and Sox haven't made a trade in years.  Has there been one since the Yanks got a past-his-prime Mike Stanley from the Sox 10 years ago or so?If the Yanks trade A-Rod, which I seriously doubt will happen, expect him to go to a lower pressure market that can afford him.  I heard the Angels mentioned as a candidate, since I don't think Cabrera is all that great and I'm not so sure that Aybar is a top flight prospect.  So, unless they decide to move Kendrick to SS, I think they could have an opening.  Again though, it would take a lot for them to trade A-Rod, since it's so hard to get back equal value for a player with his skills.

Doctor Z

09-22-2006, 12:06 PM

Clement for Pavano sounds like the worst idea ever for Red Sox fans. Clement can be a very solid 3rd or 4th starter. The way I see it, once your guys get healthy, the Red Sox have one of the best starting rotations in the A.L.
Schilling
Beckett
Wakefield
Clement
Papelbon
That's a very good looking starting 5. And assuming Lester recovers and comes back at some point next year, you have a 6th starter that you can experiment with and perhaps use regularly in case someone goes down.Starting pitching shouldn't be a problem. Relief is where it's at.The infield could perhaps use an every day 1st baseman (Nomar is a FA after this year), but Loretta and Lowell have proven they can swing the bat well enough to be in that lineup, and we know what they can do defensively.

This message was edited by Doctor_Z on 9-22-06 @ 4:07 PM

Don Stugots

09-22-2006, 12:50 PM

OFFICIAL RED SOX Offseason thread...   did memorial day weekend pass already?

OGC

09-22-2006, 05:22 PM

Doctor_Z wrote:  The way I see it, once your guys get healthy, the Red Sox have one of the best starting rotations in the A.L.  Schilling Beckett Wakefield Clement Papelbon  Where does Tavarez fit in ? I will admit that earlier this season I was just wishing they would dump him, but he has looked pretty darned good since they inserted him as a starter ?

Doctor Z

09-22-2006, 11:53 PM

Tavarez? I would be shocked if he's still on the Red Sox past November.

cougarjake13

09-23-2006, 06:29 AM

Doctor_Z wrote: Tavarez? I would be shocked if he's still on the Red Sox past November. yeh i always thought he was just a reliever, i was shocked to see him have a complete game, good for him though

Bulldogcakes

09-24-2006, 06:56 AM

<a href="http://www.nypost.com/sports/the_rumble_sports_.htm" target="_self" title="sox like sheff">Sox like Sheff</a> Sox like Sheff Multiple sources tell
Kevin Kernan the Red Sox's No. 1 goal is to sign Gary Sheffield if the
Yankees don't pick up his option. If the Yankees do pass the buck on
Sheffield, the slugger would like nothing better than to come back and
play for Boston. The Red Sox also have targeted Giants
right-hander Jason Schmidt, and you can expect Boston to move Matt
Clement to the bullpen to make way for Jonathan Papelbon in the
rotation. There's also the chance the Red Sox will trade Manny
Ramirez to the Angels, possibly for young shortstop Brandon Wood.
Angels owner Arte Moreno wants to upgrade his offense and said there
will be no financial barriers. <a href="http://www.nypost.com/sports/the_rumble_sports_.htm" target="_self" title="sox like sheff"></a>

cougarjake13

09-24-2006, 03:00 PM

if sheff comes back next year as sheff then he'd provide the protection in the lineup that manny currently does if he does get traded but i would think sawx fans would be salivating at a 3-4-5 of sheff, ortiz, and mannyand a rotation ofschilling beckettschmidtpapelbonand wakefield i guesswould be pretty hard to beat

A.J.

09-25-2006, 03:35 AM

Doctor_Z wrote:  The infield could perhaps use an every day 1st baseman  Kevin Youkilis?

A.J.

09-25-2006, 03:37 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: <a title="sox like sheff" href="http://www.nypost.com/sports/the_rumble_sports_.htm" target="_self">Sox like Sheff</a>Sox like Sheff Multiple sources tell Kevin Kernan the Red Sox's No. 1 goal is to sign Gary Sheffield if the Yankees don't pick up his option. If the Yankees do pass the buck on Sheffield, the slugger would like nothing better than to come back and play for Boston.   What the fuck for?  He's 38 and gimpy.  We have Willy Mo already and a guy -- what's name -- Ortiz-something?

A.J.

10-03-2006, 04:15 AM

The first two casualties: <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061002&content_id=1695740&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos" target="_self"> pitching coach Dave Wallace and hitting coach Ron "Papa Jack" Jackson</a>.

Shamrock

10-03-2006, 08:06 AM

Their gonna put Papelbon in the rotation.  If they can get the rest of their staff health and get the bullpen squared away they will be sitting pretty (easier said than done)  I think the Sox had a good season with so many new faces, i like the team as a whole and think they just need to tweak a bit and get more out of players like Coco, Willy Mo, and solid pitching.

Kevin

10-03-2006, 08:28 AM

cougarjake13 wrote: if sheff comes back next year as sheff then he'd provide the protection in the lineup that manny currently does if he does get traded but i would think sawx fans would be salivating at a 3-4-5 of sheff, ortiz, and mannyand a rotation ofschilling 95yrs oldbeckett awfulschmidt 89yrs oldpapelbon not a proven spand wakefield i guess 105yrs oldwould be pretty hard to beat, In the national leauge Fixed it.

Jujubees2

10-03-2006, 08:50 AM

crb1 wrote: Has anyone else heard this idea floating around:  Clement for Pavano.I actually think it may make sense since I think Pavano grew up a Sox fan and may be more apt to put forth an effort to actually pitch there.  And Clement could stand to go anywhere that's not Boston at this point.  This would basically be a "let's see what happens" deal, although it will never happen since neither team wants to trade a player to another and watch them do well.It's only a good trade if Pavano brings that hot chick that was in his car when he crashed to Boston.

A.J.

10-17-2006, 04:58 AM

<a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061016&content_id=1715157&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos" target="_self">John Farrell: new pitching coach</a>.

TjM

10-17-2006, 06:29 AM

I'm thinking at 25 Beckett might not be washed up just yet.

TjM

10-17-2006, 06:31 AM

I'm also not sure if Yankee fans want to see Clement anywhere near Yankee Stadium. Unless he's on the other team

cougarjake13

10-17-2006, 03:30 PM

A.J. wrote: <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061016&content_id=1715157&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos" target="_self">John Farrell: new pitching coach</a>. i was wondering if that was the same john farrell that pitched for the indians and it isman did i think that guy just fell off the earth

A.J.

10-30-2006, 04:18 AM

<a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061028&content_id=1726862&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos" target="_self">Doug Mirabelli</a>, <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061029&content_id=1727299&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos" target="_self">Trot Nixon and Gabe Kapler</a> file for free agency.

Fallon

10-30-2006, 08:49 AM

Yeah, I doubt any of them will be back unless the Sox really really want Doug to catch Wake again.

A.J.

10-31-2006, 03:23 AM

Boston's Youth Movement: <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061030&content_id=1727754&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos" target="_self">40-year olds Tim Wakefield and Mike Timlin to return in 2007</a>.

A.J.

11-08-2006, 04:30 AM

<a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061107&content_id=1736702&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos" target="_self">Keith Foulke has until Friday to decide if he's staying</a>.I say keep him.  He looked a lot better toward the end of the season. Even if he can't be a closer, I'll take him as a set-up man.

Dan 'Hampton

11-09-2006, 02:37 AM

He'll be fine as a setup man. I'd love to see Hanson claim the closer spot but he wasn't anywhere near that last year. Anyone else hear about the "gyroball"? Aparently that Japanese pitcher throws it although he and his coach deny it.<a href="http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/sports/4199557.html" target="_self" title=""Demon Sphere Gyro Ball"">http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/sports/4199557.html</a> 

This message was edited by dschef on 11-9-06 @ 6:39 AM

crb1

11-09-2006, 04:26 AM

dschef wrote: He'll be fine as a setup man. I'd love to see Hanson claim the closer spot but he wasn't anywhere near that last year. Anyone else hear about the "gyroball"? Aparently that Japanese pitcher throws it although he and his coach deny it.<a title="" href="http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/sports/4199557.html" target="_self">http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/sports/4199557.html</a> This message was edited by dschef on 11-9-06 @ 6:39 AM I read another article in which people deny he even throws it.  I think it was in Newsday.  They interviewed Bobby Valentine (who has coached there for years), and he said he's never seen him throw it. Interesting article though.  I had read somewhere that it's basically like using a football throwing motion (ie. putting a spiral on the ball) on a baseball.  That creates that odd breaking action.  They also say it's like a screwball, although a screwball breaks the opposite direction so that doesn't make sense.

Dan 'Hampton

11-09-2006, 05:19 PM

I read an article linked to PM that said basically the same as you.  It's a slider like pitch on steroids real hard cut to it and apparently doesn't destroy an arm like the screwball did.  Interesting concept. I doubt the Sox will end up with him.  Which is alright considering Asian pitchers success in MLB.  They make NL guys look good.

BoondockSaint

11-10-2006, 09:28 AM

The <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2656687" target="_self">Boston Red Sox</a> may have posted the top bid for the right to negotiate with Japanese right-hander Daisuke Matsuzaka, ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reported, citing Major League Baseball sources. There has been no official announcement, and the Seibu Lions, Matsuzaka's team in Japan, have until Tuesday to accept or reject the high bid. But Olney is reporting that the Red Sox may have posted the top bid with a figure between $38 million and $45 million, according to Major League Baseball officials who are monitoring the bidding.

TheMojoPin

11-10-2006, 10:44 AM

Wow.  the $45 million number is getting more and more steam...that is insane.  Honestly, I figured the Red Sox were dead last in this, with the Yankees or Rangers most likely to make a nutsoid bid.Now Red Sox nation REALLY needs to cut out the "Evil Empire" crap with the Yankees.  You guys spend almost as bad as they do...having horrible haircuts doesn't make you the "good guys."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 11-10-06 @ 2:44 PM

crb1

11-10-2006, 11:15 AM

Wow, $38-45 million is a big chunk of change.  Even rich teams have to be ballsy to put that up, considering it has to be paid immediately.  I'll believe it when Seibu announces it though.

spoon

11-10-2006, 02:28 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: Wow.  the $45 million number is getting more and more steam...that is insane.  Honestly, I figured the Red Sox were dead last in this, with the Yankees or Rangers most likely to make a nutsoid bid.Now Red Sox nation REALLY needs to cut out the "Evil Empire" crap with the Yankees.  You guys spend almost as bad as they do...having horrible haircuts doesn't make you the "good guys."This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 11-10-06 @ 2:44 PM First it's still totally up in the air so let's not go nuts yet.  And if you think about it, this move is best for teams without a popular Japanese player yet.  They may spend a lot to get him, but the move will probably bring in new revenue from Japan markets, press and more.  He'd be a big move and expensive no doubt, but the yanks are still almost double the Sox payroll, and were in this deal as well.  If the yanks don't get this kid, I'm sure the yanks will spend a ton on free agents and dominate the market.  I predict that if the yanks don't get him, they'll then get at least Zito or Schmidt (possibly both), the other big Japanese pitcher, and a few other bullpen FAs.  They'll spend the money, we just don't know where yet.

TheMojoPin

11-10-2006, 02:55 PM

Boras was on XM today denying the $45 million talk...though it IS Boras, so take it with a grain of salt.The Red Sox bidding that high would suck because all it would do would make the Yanks spend even more and gobble up the few decent FA's out there just to not get upstaged in their queer little rivalry.

Dan 'Hampton

11-10-2006, 03:08 PM

Sounds crazy but the 45 million wouldn't effect the luxury tax, and would basically be charged as a business expence.  It will also most likely get the Sox money to broadcast their games in Japan.  We'll see.

TheMojoPin

11-10-2006, 03:12 PM

dschef wrote: Sounds crazy but the 45 million wouldn't effect the luxury tax, and would basically be charged as a business expence.  It will also most likely get the Sox money to broadcast their games in Japan.  We'll see. The league as a whole already has broadcast deals overseas.  The teams, I believe, don't control that on their own.

HeyGuy

11-10-2006, 03:16 PM

So who gets the $45mil that the redsox are paying just to negotiate? I know the player doesnt get it so who gets it and why?

cougarjake13

11-10-2006, 03:25 PM

CampoNJ wrote: So who gets the $45mil that the redsox are paying just to negotiate? I know the player doesnt get it so who gets it and why?the team that owns his rights, which is the seibu lionsits basically a vig for taking their player away from them

Bulldogcakes

11-10-2006, 04:12 PM

Name me the last time the Red Sox threw around money like this. Anyone? They let Damon go over a a few mil per year, they wouldn't give Pedro an extra year. They've never outbid the Yanks for a free agent both teams wanted (though I wish they did w/Pavano). They spend money, but usually have a budget and limits on how far they go. Answer-Manny Ramirez, and that was when they weren't very good in 2000-2001. They were trying to rebuild their franchise around him and Pedro. And they've been trying to dump Manny and his salalry ever since.  I'm very suspicious this is a block move. Boras wants 15 mil per for this guy, plus your going to spend 40 mil to talk to him? You give him a 4 year deal and your looking at spending roughly 100 MILLION dollars, 25 mil per year (A-Rod money) for a guy WHO'S NEVER PITCHED in the major leagues. The Red Sox aren't that stupid. They know this guy could get hurt, or simply have his stuff not translate to this league (Like Irabu, Nomo, etc) or their ballpark and then they will be screwed for years to come. And dont give me the marketing bullshit. How many fucking Sox jerseys are you going to sell in Japan?  I think this is the block move that Onley was warning everyone about. I wont believe otherwise until I see them sign him, and I'll bet good money that doesn't happen. Then the only question is what does Bud Selig do about it. He's said he wont allow a team to get away with putting in an unrealistic bid and then not sign him. My question is what will he threaten them with and what will he do next if (I think when) this deal falls through.  You should have heard Bobby Valentine on Michael Kay last week. Not very enthusiatic about Matsuzaka. Said he throws in the low 90's, and doesn't have an out pitch for righty hitters, and he's a right handed pitcher. Likes him, doesn't love him.    They better think this guy will be one of the best pitchers in all of baseball overnight, if he's not this is one of the dumbest moves since the Tom Seaver deal.

TheMojoPin

11-10-2006, 04:34 PM

If it's a "block move" type of bid, it's an incredibly stupid move on the part of the Red Sox.  If they lowball him an offer it'll likely burn any business bridges Boston hopes to have with Japan for who knows how long, and the League itself will likely step in and lay the smackdown.

spoon

11-10-2006, 04:41 PM

It isn't a block move this is just BDC getting cranky about them possibly getting him.  I know I know, you really don't know what you want in this case, but that surely doesn't stop you from crying when it looks like it won't go the poor yankee's way.  I hope he goes anywhere else unless he's a failure and a drain on the yank's budget.

Bulldogcakes

11-10-2006, 04:45 PM

Spoon, I've been very ambivalent about the guy all along. And I thought a bid of 20 mil with a 10 mil per year contract was ridiculous. These #'s are pure insanity. I'd love to hear what some Sox fans think about this, not us three non Sox fans.     

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-10-06 @ 8:48 PM

Bulldogcakes

11-10-2006, 04:52 PM

Here's an obvious question for any team with a budget. Would you rather spend 100 mil on this one guy, who's never even pitched in the bigs, or would you rather spend that 100 mil on Zito and 2 or three guys to fix that hideous bullpen you had last year? If Texas learned anything from the A-Rod deal, its that you cant commit 1/4 of your budget to any one player. You simply dont have enough money left to put a team around him.

spoon

11-10-2006, 08:21 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Spoon, I've been very ambivalent about the guy all along. And I thought a bid of 20 mil with a 10 mil per year contract was ridiculous. These #'s are pure insanity. I'd love to hear what some Sox fans think about this, not us three non Sox fans.     This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-10-06 @ 8:48 PM I'll give you that no doubt  but it just sounded a little like sour grapes.  Let's face it, even this part of the mlb system is fucked up and should be reformulated.  If you ask me, MLB should make arrangements with Japan to set up a system where they pay a certain price per player taken at a certain time and once cleared enter the draft.  All international prospects should work with the same system all us born players must.  Then it also evens the playing field bc it's the same 6 teams + one or two teams in the mix for the time period every time a big prospect comes out.  Having 75% of the league out of the mix (the same ones too) every time is one hell of a fucked system.  These top teams, all of them, have enough of an advantage with free agents, but now the draft is less important then buying international prospects based on where the players who play in MLB come from over the last 10-15 years.

HeyGuy

11-10-2006, 11:13 PM

spoon wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: Spoon, I've been very ambivalent about the guy all along. And I thought a bid of 20 mil with a 10 mil per year contract was ridiculous. These #'s are pure insanity. I'd love to hear what some Sox fans think about this, not us three non Sox fans.     This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-10-06 @ 8:48 PM I'll give you that no doubt  but it just sounded a little like sour grapes.  Let's face it, even this part of the mlb system is fucked up and should be reformulated.  If you ask me, MLB should make arrangements with Japan to set up a system where they pay a certain price per player taken at a certain time and once cleared enter the draft.  All international prospects should work with the same system all us born players must.  Then it also evens the playing field bc it's the same 6 teams + one or two teams in the mix for the time period every time a big prospect comes out.  Having 75% of the league out of the mix (the same ones too) every time is one hell of a fucked system.  These top teams, all of them, have enough of an advantage with free agents, but now the draft is less important then buying international prospects based on where the players who play in MLB come from over the last 10-15 years.Spoon For MLB Commish! 100% dead on!!!

crb1

11-11-2006, 03:44 AM

TheMojoPin wrote: Boras was on XM today denying the $45 million talk...though it IS Boras, so take it with a grain of salt.The Red Sox bidding that high would suck because all it would do would make the Yanks spend even more and gobble up the few decent FA's out there just to not get upstaged in their queer little rivalry.He was on again?  I heard him on The Show on Thursday and he said the main reason players get no trade clauses was family considerations.  Oh really, Scott???  It has nothing to do with strong-arming an extension out of any team looking to trade for you?I'll give the guy credit though.  He was smooth enough that it actually made sense to me for a second.

Bulldogcakes

11-11-2006, 04:10 AM

<a title=" Update from Matsuzaka watch" target="_self" href="http://matsuzaka.blogspot.com/"> Update from Matsuzaka watch</a>  [quote] I tend to believe that the Buster Olney story
is true and that Matsuzaka will be the new ace of the Red Sox next
season. I may eat my words on this come revelation day (which is likely
Sunday in the US), but I'm leaning towards the ESPN story. I stick by
my comments of one post earlier. I've been saying it for some time now
that a per year expenditure of more than $20 million for a pitcher is
next to crazy. That said, an ace is an ace. If Theo Epstein
splashed, he's won a huge round for the Fenway faithful. I believe
Matsuzaka is one of the Top Ten pitchers in the world, and will prove
it within a years time. He may throw to a 3.50 ERA in season one, but
he's got better seasons than that ahead of him in my opinion. The Sox
have other holes to fill, but they need not worry about finding their
#1 pitcher anymore. They will also have opened a lucrative market in
Japan that is absolutely dominated by the Yankees, and has been since
the days of Babe Ruth, who is a legend here. The Mariners have Ichiro,
and they are now nearly as famous as the Bombers. The White Sox and
others have had some nice exposure in Japan with their players, but
nothing to the degree of Matsui or Ichiro. The acquisition of Matsuzaka
will drive some big money to the Red Sox, and help to offset the cost
of the bidding. Again, I stick by my opinion that the money that comes
in from Asia will not be enough to justify a $40 million+ bid, but a
bold blow has been stuck by Red Sox Nation. Let's wait before we
finalize this and put Daisuke in the heat of the New England spotlight,
but I believe it more and more as I think of it. For fans of other
teams, I believe that it's over for you. I don't think the Yankees bid
more than the Rangers or Red Sox at this moment in time, and I think
you'll see one or the other of those clubs with Matsuzaka. I may be
wrong, but there's been plenty of time for the other clubs to float
their own rumors and they haven't...... 


posted by Mike Plugh @ <a href="http://matsuzaka.blogspot.com/2006/11/fenways-ace.html" title="permanent link">4:22 PM</a>

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<h3 class="post-title">

Red Sox the Latest

</h3>

<a href="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4427/1562/1600/Matsuzaka%20Watch%20Red%20Sox.0.jpg"><img border="0" src="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4427/1562/400/Matsuzaka%20Watch%20Red%20Sox.0.jpg" alt="" /></a>So Buster Olney of ESPN is reporting that <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2656687&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines" target="_blank">the Red Sox may have bid</a>
between $38 and $45 million for Matsuzaka. If that's true, I guarantee
they won the bidding. It's also perhaps the single most reckless and
irresponsible expenditure in the history of professional sports, going
way beyond the Alex Rodriguez' Texas contract. If true, it means
that Theo Epstein just spent about $40 million to talk to Matsuzaka,
and Boras will be looking for Oswalt money at 5 years/$75 million. If
Boras sticks to his guns, and all this is accurate, the Sox will be
paying out an average seasonal output of $23 million for Matsuzaka's
services. Even as good as I think he is, that's idiotic.

crb1

11-11-2006, 04:15 AM

[quote]Bulldogcakes wrote: <a title=" Update from Matsuzaka watch" href="http://matsuzaka.blogspot.com/" target="_self">Update from Matsuzaka watch</a>    I tend to believe that the Buster Olney story is true and that Matsuzaka will be the new ace of the Red Sox next season. I may eat my words on this come revelation day (which is likely Sunday in the US), but I'm leaning towards the ESPN story. I stick by my comments of one post earlier. I've been saying it for some time now that a per year expenditure of more than $20 million for a pitcher is next to crazy. That said, an ace is an ace. If Theo Epstein splashed, he's won a huge round for the Fenway faithful. I believe Matsuzaka is one of the Top Ten pitchers in the world, and will prove it within a years time. He may throw to a 3.50 ERA in season one, but he's got better seasons than that ahead of him in my opinion. The Sox have other holes to fill, but they need not worry about finding their #1 pitcher anymore. They will also have opened a lucrative market in Japan that is absolutely dominated by the Yankees, and has been since the days of Babe Ruth, who is a legend here. The Mariners have Ichiro, and they are now nearly as famous as the Bombers. The White Sox and others have had some nice exposure in Japan with their players, but nothing to the degree of Matsui or Ichiro. The acquisition of Matsuzaka will drive some big money to the Red Sox, and help to offset the cost of the bidding. Again, I stick by my opinion that the money that comes in from Asia will not be enough to justify a $40 million+ bid, but a bold blow has been stuck by Red Sox Nation. Let's wait before we finalize this and put Daisuke in the heat of the New England spotlight, but I believe it more and more as I think of it. For fans of other teams, I believe that it's over for you. I don't think the Yankees bid more than the Rangers or Red Sox at this moment in time, and I think you'll see one or the other of those clubs with Matsuzaka. I may be wrong, but there's been plenty of time for the other clubs to float their own rumors and they haven't......  [quote] posted by Mike Plugh @ <a title="permanent link" href="http://matsuzaka.blogspot.com/2006/11/fenways-ace.html">4:22 PM</a> <a href="http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=29050172&postID=116323052284070053">0 comments</a> <a title="Edit Post" href="http://www.blogger.com/post-edit.g?blogID=29050172&postID=116323052284070053&quickEdit=true"></a>*-- End .post -**-- Begin #comments -**-- End #comments -**-- Begin .post -* <a name="116321200198190323"></a><h3 class="post-title">Red Sox the Latest </h3><a href="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4427/1562/1600/Matsuzaka%20Watch%20Red%20Sox.0.jpg"><img alt="" src="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4427/1562/400/Matsuzaka%20Watch%20Red%20Sox.0.jpg" border="0" /></a>So Buster Olney of ESPN is reporting that <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2656687&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines" target="_blank">the Red Sox may have bid</a> between $38 and $45 million for Matsuzaka. If that's true, I guarantee they won the bidding. It's also perhaps the single most reckless and irresponsible expenditure in the history of professional sports, going way beyond the Alex Rodriguez' Texas contract. If true, it means that Theo Epstein just spent about $40 million to talk to Matsuzaka, and Boras will be looking for Oswalt money at 5 years/$75 million. If Boras sticks to his guns, and all this is accurate, the Sox will be paying out an average seasonal output of $23 million for Matsuzaka's services. Even as good as I think he is, that's idiotic. The Red Sox will get an ace caliber pitcher, in all likelihood, and an inroad to Japan. That's all nice. They will also see their payroll explode, and there a

OGC

11-11-2006, 04:34 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  .... The Red Sox will get an ace caliber pitcher, in all likelihood, and an inroad to Japan. That's all nice. They will also see their payroll explode, and there are still a lot of gaps to fill. The Sox will likely join the Yankees near the $200 million budget plateau. Can they afford that? Should they spend that much on one guy? I certainly wouldn't. There is the possibility that this is either wrong, or a ploy to block Matsuzaka from the Yankees. Time will tell.I am a Red Sox  fan and I agree that it seems like a big mistake to spend that much money just to be able to talk with a player. But I would like to point out that the $40 million or so they would be paying to talk would not be counted towards the salary cap (or what ever it's called). So the Red Sox salary cap cost would be just whatever they signed the player to.We can look at it and average the $40 mill. and the salary but MLB doesn't.

A.J.

11-11-2006, 09:15 AM

A.J. wrote: <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061107&content_id=1736702&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos" target="_self">Keith Foulke has until Friday to decide if he's staying</a>.I say keep him.  He looked a lot better toward the end of the season. Even if he can't be a closer, I'll take him as a set-up man.<a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061110&content_id=1738657&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos" target="_self">"That's all Foulkes".</a>

A.J.

11-11-2006, 09:20 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: I'd love to hear what some Sox fans think about this, not us three non Sox fans. Why do I have visions of Jeff Bagwell, Curt Schilling, Cla Meredith and Josh Bard dancing in my head?

Bulldogcakes

11-11-2006, 05:48 PM

crb1 wrote:Again, I have my doubts until I hear it from the Lions, but one possibility I've heard about Boras is that he may actually looking for a shorter deal (3 years) in order to get him to unrestricted FA earlier. If he was as good as everyone seems to think, he'd only be 29 at that point and be considered in his prime. From the Red Sox perspective, thats even worse. Do the math. 40 mil to talk with him, and then say another 40 to sign him, 13.33/3 years. Thats 26.67 MILLION per year for 3 years. He becomes the highest player compensation in the history of baseball overnight. And sorry to beat a dead horse BUT HE'S NEVER PITCHED IN THE BIG LEAGUES! Total, pure insanity. He could be great, or he could be a total bust that we'll be laughing about for the rest of our lives. But again, I seriously doubt the Red Sox are that reckless. I think its a block, pure and simple.   <blockquote />

OGC

11-11-2006, 06:06 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: But again, I seriously doubt the Red Sox are that reckless. I think its a block, pure and simple.   So if it's the Red Sox pay $40 miilion to block, let's say the Yankees from getting him, and they don't intend on signing him themselves, would that be a better thing ? They pay $40 mill and get nothing from him. Or maybe they sign him for $13 mill per year and trade him to a non-yankees team for a top prospect or two. I suppose anything is possible, but it doesn't make sense to me. It goes against everything I've come to expect from a Red Sox team over the years.

spoon

11-12-2006, 01:35 AM

That's not exactly what would happen as BDC's theory entails.  The Sox make the biggest bid to talk with him and possibly sign him.  If the Sox did this as a block and don't actually intend to sign him, they would never lose the money and he'd stay in Japan.  I think this isn't even close to the case, and it's only yankee fans who are afraid of this scenario (or even talking about it on their blogs and by their beat writers).  If they can't have him at the bid price they want, it isn't fair!!  If only it was a true block and MLB couldn't do anything about it legally (as I've heard is probably the case) it'd go down in history as one hell of a move.  The more I think about it, if the Sox do this it'd be for the league as a whole making this guy more attainable by the majority of the league next year.  Perhaps the Sox are just looking out for the little guy!!  <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/innocent.gif" border="0" />

TheMojoPin

11-12-2006, 03:32 AM

richg0404 wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: But again, I seriously doubt the Red Sox are that reckless. I think its a block, pure and simple.   So if it's the Red Sox pay $40 miilion to block, let's say the Yankees from getting him, and they don't intend on signing him themselves, would that be a better thing ? They pay $40 mill and get nothing from him. Or maybe they sign him for $13 mill per year and trade him to a non-yankees team for a top prospect or two. I suppose anything is possible, but it doesn't make sense to me. It goes against everything I've come to expect from a Red Sox team over the years.If the winning team fails to sign Matsuzaka, they get their bid back.

crb1

11-12-2006, 03:47 AM

spoon wrote: If only it was a true block and MLB couldn't do anything about it legally (as I've heard is probably the case) it'd go down in history as one hell of a move.  The more I think about it, if the Sox do this it'd be for the league as a whole making this guy more attainable by the majority of the league next year.  Perhaps the Sox are just looking out for the little guy!!  <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/innocent.gif" border="0" />Actually, I think the Red Sox are making a point of how awful the posting process is, in an effort to force D-Mat (and all Japanese players) to go through the amateur draft.  Thus, allowing the Royals to get the best international talent every single year. I'm sure Matsuzaka can't wait for his first trip to Arthur Bryant's.

OGC

11-12-2006, 04:35 AM

Looks like you are right Mojo.Here is and <a href="http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/story/2006/11/1/13614/1224" target="_blank">interesting article which points out the main flaw of the whole process.</a>It seems that this may be what's going on.It's amazing that no team has ever blocked a player from Japan before.

Bulldogcakes

11-12-2006, 05:17 AM

spoon wrote:If only it was a true block and MLB couldn't do anything about it legally (as I've heard is probably the case) it'd go down in history as one hell of a move. The more I think about it, if the Sox do this it'd be for the league as a whole making this guy more attainable by the majority of the league next year. Perhaps the Sox are just looking out for the little guy!! <img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/innocent.gif" /> If that's the case (and I heard Bud Selig say on WFAN that he would NOT let a block move happen) thats the end of the posting system. You know who gets screwed in that case? The Seibu Lions. They get nothing, Matsuzaka is still under contract for next year and then he walks away as a free agent. This posting system may need to scrapped anyway, alot of its features seem screwy to me. The "little guy" in this situation is the Lions, not the rich American teams. You still concerned for the little guy? Not to get all NPR here, but I think this shows the difference between the way the Japanese do business and the way we do. I'd imagine there's a protocol in Japan where something as devious as a block move would never be considered, and is therefore not needed to guard against. This would be subtle, the Bosox are going to make a decent contract offer. I think they're relying on the Boras factor. He is known to be a very tough negotiator, and if he doesn't get what he thinks the player deserves, he walks. Maybe Bud does have something up his sleeve which will prevent this. Maybe the MLB owns the international TV/Radio rights and can use that as a hammer to negotiate with them. If the Bosox do this block move, they can kiss the Japanese market goodbye forever. I think people over there would always remember them as cheaters, and hate their guts. 

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-12-06 @ 9:32 AM

Bulldogcakes

11-12-2006, 05:29 AM

richg0404 wrote: Looks like you are right Mojo.Here is and <a target="_blank" href="http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/story/2006/11/1/13614/1224">interesting article which points out the main flaw of the whole process.</a>It seems that this may be what's going on.It's amazing that no team has ever blocked a player from Japan before. Teams have to include their contract offer to the players with their bid. For example, the Rangers (who are reported to be the 2nd highest bidder) offered a 22 mil bid and had a 4 year/40 mil contract offer attached to it. The Japanese aren't that stupid. They know that a team could offer a 60 mil bid and then offer the player a 5 year 10 mil contract. The team would reject such an offer, knowing the player would never sign and then they lose the bid entirely.   <blockquote />

crb1

11-12-2006, 05:50 AM

OGC

11-12-2006, 06:17 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Teams have to include their contract offer to the players with their bid. For example, the Rangers (who are reported to be the 2nd highest bidder) offered a 22 mil bid and had a 4 year/40 mil contract offer attached to it. The Japanese aren't that stupid. They know that a team could offer a 60 mil bid and then offer the player a 5 year 10 mil contract. The team would reject such an offer, knowing the player would never sign and then they lose the bid entirely.   I'm not saying you are wrong, because I know next to nothing about this process. But I found<a href="http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/content/printer_friendly/tex/y2006/m09/d11/c1657081.jsp" target="_blank"> this at mlb.mlb.com</a>. and<a href="http://mobileapp.espn.go.com/mlb/mp/html/news?story=2643750&dvc=1" target="_blank"> this on espn.com</a> . Neither one mentions anything about submitting a contact proposal with the posting bid. Can you site an article ?

Bulldogcakes

11-12-2006, 06:21 AM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2656687" target="_self" title="FRom Buster Only's ESPN article">FRom Buster Only's ESPN article</a>According to a source, Texas bid about $22 million for Matsuzaka, with
the intention of offering a contract of five years and $50 million if
the Rangers had the top bid. I've also heard it mentioned on WFAN. It makes sense, otherwise the posting process would be a complete sham.

crb1

11-12-2006, 06:29 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: <a title="FRom Buster Only's ESPN article" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2656687" target="_self">FRom Buster Only's ESPN article</a> According to a source, Texas bid about $22 million for Matsuzaka, with the intention of offering a contract of five years and $50 million if the Rangers had the top bid.    I've also heard it mentioned on WFAN. It makes sense, otherwise the posting process would be a complete sham.  That just said the Rangers intend to offer him a contract like that, it doesn't say it was included in the actual bid.I believe the only thing the Lions get in this process is the bid amount.

OGC

11-12-2006, 11:27 AM

crb1 wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: <a title="FRom Buster Only's ESPN article" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2656687" target="_self">FRom Buster Only's ESPN article</a>According to a source, Texas bid about $22 million for Matsuzaka, with the intention of offering a contract of five years and $50 million if the Rangers had the top bid. I've also heard it mentioned on WFAN. It makes sense, otherwise the posting process would be a complete sham.  That just said the Rangers intend to offer him a contract like that, it doesn't say it was included in the actual bid.I believe the only thing the Lions get in this process is the bid amount.I tend to agree with crb1 on the interpretation of the article, it doesn't say that a contract proposal had to be included with the posting bid.I have read up a little on this since my last post and the wild card in this process is that the Japanese team doesn't  need to accept the highest bid. For example, in one of my previous posts I wondered why a team didn't just make a rediculously high posting offer just to block other teams. If the Japanese team smelled something fishy, they could reject the first bid and ask mlb what the second highest bid was and deal with that team.

BoondockSaint

11-12-2006, 11:34 AM

That's not how it works.  They either accept the high bid or they don't.  They can't reject it and move on to # 2.

OGC

11-12-2006, 12:21 PM

BoondockSaint wrote: That's not how it works.  They either accept the high bid or they don't.  They can't reject it and move on to # 2. I might be wrong but I thought I had read that somewhere. I can't seem to find the link now. Do you have a link saying that they can't reject the highest bid and take the second highest ?

BoondockSaint

11-12-2006, 12:29 PM

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/05/sports/baseball/05japan.html?ref=sports" target="_self">The Lions then have four business days to accept or reject the bid. If they reject, they will keep Matsuzaka. If they accept, Matsuzaka has 30 days to negotiate with the team that made the bid. If he fails to work out a contract, he returns to Japan, and the bid is returned to the team that made it.</a>

Kevin

11-12-2006, 12:48 PM

After watching Espnesen get every trade wrong on the trading deadline, I do not buy anything about any bid that they have supposedly heard about.

spoon

11-12-2006, 02:10 PM

richg0404 wrote: Looks like you are right Mojo.Here is and <a href="http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/story/2006/11/1/13614/1224" target="_blank">interesting article which points out the main flaw of the whole process.</a>It seems that this may be what's going on.It's amazing that no team has ever blocked a player from Japan before.No shit, thanks to both of you reading the post before Mojo's.  Time to sue!

spoon

11-12-2006, 02:13 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  spoon wrote: If only it was a true block and MLB couldn't do anything about it legally (as I've heard is probably the case) it'd go down in history as one hell of a move. The more I think about it, if the Sox do this it'd be for the league as a whole making this guy more attainable by the majority of the league next year. Perhaps the Sox are just looking out for the little guy!! <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/innocent.gif" border="0" /> If that's the case (and I heard Bud Selig say on WFAN that he would NOT let a block move happen) thats the end of the posting system. You know who gets screwed in that case? The Seibu Lions. They get nothing, Matsuzaka is still under contract for next year and then he walks away as a free agent. This posting system may need to scrapped anyway, alot of its features seem screwy to me. The "little guy" in this situation is the Lions, not the rich American teams. You still concerned for the little guy?  Not to get all NPR here, but I think this shows the difference between the way the Japanese do business and the way we do. I'd imagine there's a protocol in Japan where something as devious as a block move would never be considered, and is therefore not needed to guard against. This would be subtle, the Bosox are going to make a decent contract offer. I think they're relying on the Boras factor. He is known to be a very tough negotiator, and if he doesn't get what he thinks the player deserves, he walks. Maybe Bud does have something up his sleeve which will prevent this. Maybe the MLB owns the international TV/Radio rights and can use that as a hammer to negotiate with them. If the Bosox do this block move, they can kiss the Japanese market goodbye forever. I think people over there would always remember them as cheaters, and hate their guts.  This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-12-06 @ 9:32 AM Waaaa!  You sound like a fucking baby.  Nothing would stop the Sox from doing it again as they are within their right and the rules to do this if they please.  I only wish it were true and it wasn't you just crying about free agents like you do 365 days a year.  If only you were happy with your team of all-stars at one point before the fact.

spoon

11-12-2006, 02:15 PM

Calling a team from another league and country a "little guy" is fucking hilarious too.  Wow, you got me!  Let's send all the latino players back too.  This posting system is almost as bad as the internationsl free agent process.

Bulldogcakes

11-12-2006, 02:43 PM

Spoon is that all you got? Attack the messenger? Come on, you know your shit, you can do better than that. I want you to explain to me why 1) Spending 26 mil per year for a guy who's never pitched in MLB makes any sense. 2) A block move is fair to anyone involved. Matsuzaka, The Lions, or the other bidders.  And maybe you didn't notice, but I've posted that the rumored #2 bid is from Texas, not the Yankees. So my problem with this is not the Yanks losing out on a pitcher I was ambivalent about in the first place.

spoon

11-13-2006, 12:49 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Spoon is that all you got? Attack the messenger? Come on, you know your shit, you can do better than that. I want you to explain to me why 1) Spending 26 mil per year for a guy who's never pitched in MLB makes any sense. 2) A block move is fair to anyone involved. Matsuzaka, The Lions, or the other bidders.  And maybe you didn't notice, but I've posted that the rumored #2 bid is from Texas, not the Yankees. So my problem with this is not the Yanks losing out on a pitcher I was ambivalent about in the first place.  I did explain it you just can't comprehend it I guess.  It's simple, the process is stupid, unbalanced, favors big market teams, gives crazy money for very little reason and should be blocked to simply make a statement to the league that their league processes are beyond idiotic and very unfair.  I can give two shits about him being blocked and I hope it does happen.

crb1

11-13-2006, 11:09 AM

Speculation UPDATE:  <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2660428">http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2660428</a>Now, I am starting to believe the rumors.  This article has a specific dollar amount ($42 million), and Peter Gammons got it from his sources (there's arguably no writer in baseball with better connections than Gammons). Again, I truly believe it when I hear it from the Lions, but I think this definitely gives the last rumor a little more credibility.

cougarjake13

11-13-2006, 11:28 AM

in the end i dont care who gets him i just want him to turn out to be the next hideki irabu

Kevin

11-13-2006, 11:35 AM

crb1 wrote: Speculation UPDATE:  <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2660428">http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2660428</a>Now, I am starting to believe the rumors.  This article has a specific dollar amount ($42 million), and Peter Gammons got it from his sources (there's arguably no writer in baseball with better connections than Gammons). Again, I truly believe it when I hear it from the Lions, but I think this definitely gives the last rumor a little more credibility.Gammons sources are always more wrong then Bush's sources on Iraq and the WMD'S. Gammons NEVER! Gets a fucking rumor right. In fact nobody in espn does. I thnk Gammons still thinks that the Arod deal to Boston is still going to get done " Any minute now" That is all i heard from Gammons all days for like 3 weeks during the whole Arod Bos thing.

This message was edited by Kevin on 11-13-06 @ 3:37 PM

crb1

11-14-2006, 04:08 PM

It's official:  The Red Sox have won the bidding for Matsuzaka.  MLB just made the announcement.  They did not disclose the amount though.

spoon

11-14-2006, 04:47 PM

I'm hearing 42-50 million (reading).  The second highest bidder is believed to be Texas at 27 million.

HBox

11-14-2006, 05:02 PM

$51.1 million. Which means that it will cost them at a minimum a $102 million to sign Matsuzaka. At this insane price I'm sure that Boston will have to look at a longer term deal but Boras will probably want Matsuzaka to have access to free agency after 3 years. If it is a three-year contract at the minimum amount Matsuzaka will cost them $34 million a year, by far the biggest per year expenditure for a player in American sports. If that happens will Boston get the same vitriol from Spoon as NY does? I doubt it.

Don Stugots

11-14-2006, 05:04 PM

HBox wrote: $51.1 million. Which means that it will cost them at a minimum a $102 million to sign Matsuzaka. At this insane price I'm sure that Boston will have to look at a longer term deal but Boras will probably want Matsuzaka to have access to free agency after 3 years. If it is a three-year contract at the minimum amount Matsuzaka will cost them $34 million a year, by far the biggest per year expenditure for a player in American sports. If that happens will Boston get the same vitriol from Spoon as NY does? I doubt it.    i doubt it too.  i also think that no matter who got him, the price is too much.

HBox

11-14-2006, 05:09 PM

Another thing. With a bid this high I don't think it would be even possible for the Red Sox to block, even though I never took that talk seriosuly. The starting point for negotiations are a $51.1 million, three year contract. Almost $17 million a year. That's more than any pitcher currently on market is likely to get. It would take a very weird set of circumstances for this not to go down. I don't think Boston has any excuse not to reach a deal.

Bulldogcakes

11-14-2006, 05:09 PM

Its all a ploy. They're not that stupid. To earn that contract he'd have to be Sandy Kofax on Steroids.

HBox

11-14-2006, 05:22 PM

I wish I was in the meeting when they decided on that final bid."51 million.""NO YOU FOOL! Are you nutso?.""Too high?""NO. Too low.""But how much higher?"".1 more higher." "Brilliant!"<img border="0" src="http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5836/brilliantqg8.jpg" />

OGC

11-14-2006, 05:29 PM

HBox wrote: $51.1 million. Which means that it will cost them at a minimum a $102 million to sign Matsuzaka. ...  What makes you think that the contract has to match the posting bid ?Every article I've seen estimates that the contract will be about $12 million per year.

HBox

11-14-2006, 05:31 PM

richg0404 wrote: HBox wrote: $51.1 million. Which means that it will cost them at a minimum a $102 million to sign Matsuzaka. ... What makes you think that the contract has to match the posting bid ?Every article I've seen estimates that the contract will be about $12 million per year. By rules of the posting system the value of the contract over the first three years must at least equal the bid amount.EDIT: I tried looking for where I read it but I can't find it. 

This message was edited by HBox on 11-14-06 @ 9:38 PM

OGC

11-14-2006, 05:43 PM

I've heard a couple of people mention it but no one has come up with a link. It would change things a little if it is true.

Bulldogcakes

11-14-2006, 05:43 PM

HBox wrote: richg0404 wrote: HBox wrote: $51.1 million. Which means that it will cost them at a minimum a $102 million to sign Matsuzaka. ... What makes you think that the contract has to match the posting bid ?Every article I've seen estimates that the contract will be about $12 million per year. By rules of the posting system the value of the contract over the first three years must at least equal the bid amount.EDIT: I tried looking for where I read it but I can't find it. 

This message was edited by HBox on 11-14-06 @ 9:38 PM I've read that too, about 20 times. It has to be AT LEAST the same $$ as the bid. You know Rich, do you answer EVERY post you by saying "Where did you read that?" Its getting old. Do a little of your own research, please.  <blockquote />

spoon

11-15-2006, 12:06 AM

STUGOTS1 wrote:  HBox wrote: $51.1 million. Which means that it will cost them at a minimum a $102 million to sign Matsuzaka. At this insane price I'm sure that Boston will have to look at a longer term deal but Boras will probably want Matsuzaka to have access to free agency after 3 years. If it is a three-year contract at the minimum amount Matsuzaka will cost them $34 million a year, by far the biggest per year expenditure for a player in American sports. If that happens will Boston get the same vitriol from Spoon as NY does? I doubt it.    i doubt it too.  i also think that no matter who got him, the price is too much.   You're all insane bc I've stated that this whole system knocks out 75% of the league from even having a chance at him.  I'm truly hoping it's a block, but if they land him I think this has to cripple their ability to spend further.  Spending finally started to catch up to the yankees and they have more flexibility than the Sox, so I think this should really catch up with Boston and keep them from bidding on a lot of other free agents (hopefully Lugo will go to Toronto now).  The difference is that barring a block the odds were that the Jays were going to be hurt by this guy going to another AL East team.  I was just hoping the price would go sky high like it did would limit the winning team's ability to make more moves down the road.  The best result would have been another team getting him, unless the block comes through (I doubt it).  And the problem with you simply blaming the Sox is crazy as the yanks have them backed into a corner on recent take aways from them (Damon) and they had to make a big move vs. the yanks to show something to the fan base.  By no means am I defending them as their payroll is climbing to that 200 million mark as the yanks (so far) continue to back away from it.  Both teams are getting out of hand, but as I stated a million times it's the leagues duty to set some fucking limits here, not just some bullshit rev sharing and claim all is well with MLB.  It's a vicious cycle and it hurts the league as a whole, including the yankees of late.  Now it's the Sox turn to go nuts to get back in this arms race bc they're pissed they finished behind the yanks again and even the lowly Jays.  There is definitely something wrong in the league when the A's can't hold one ace over the last decade and the Jays constantly struggle just to hold on to studs they develop (Delgado, Wells and other good players).  The price is crazy but I'm happy it's that high bc the Jays weren't in this one from the start.  But let's be fair, I don't just get on the yanks about these issues, but ultimately blame the league.  Also, much of my "vitriol" is the result of choice yankee fans and their bias here.  It's the yankee Ace in the hole so to speak.  Fallon, Snoogans, AJ and others are just more evenly based fans then most yank fans here(BDC, Kevin, Wadd, ESD, HHH).  For every Hbox, Crippler and Campo, there are at least two Wadds.

spoon

11-15-2006, 12:11 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  HBox wrote:  richg0404 wrote: HBox wrote: $51.1 million. Which means that it will cost them at a minimum a $102 million to sign Matsuzaka. ... What makes you think that the contract has to match the posting bid ?Every article I've seen estimates that the contract will be about $12 million per year.  By rules of the posting system the value of the contract over the first three years must at least equal the bid amount.EDIT: I tried looking for where I read it but I can't find it. This message was edited by HBox on 11-14-06 @ 9:38 PM  I've read that too, about 20 times. It has to be AT LEAST the same $$ as the bid. You know Rich, do you answer EVERY post you by saying "Where did you read that?" Its getting old. Do a little of your own research, please.   Wait what?!  He just asking people to back up their posts. It's not even as if he's calling them out, but simply asking where he can read up on it some more.  It's a great question that I think is quite valid.  I'd like to know if it's true and if that means anything in terms of years.  For example, can they just add more years to the deal to bring the average per year down to about 12 million?

Don Stugots

11-15-2006, 01:33 AM

spoon wrote: STUGOTS1 wrote: HBox wrote: $51.1 million. Which means that it will cost them at a minimum a $102 million to sign Matsuzaka. At this insane price I'm sure that Boston will have to look at a longer term deal but Boras will probably want Matsuzaka to have access to free agency after 3 years. If it is a three-year contract at the minimum amount Matsuzaka will cost them $34 million a year, by far the biggest per year expenditure for a player in American sports. If that happens will Boston get the same vitriol from Spoon as NY does? I doubt it. i doubt it too. i also think that no matter who got him, the price is too much. You're all insane bc I've stated that this whole system knocks out 75% of the league from even having a chance at him. I'm truly hoping it's a block, but if they land him I think this has to cripple their ability to spend further. Spending finally started to catch up to the yankees and they have more flexibility than the Sox, so I think this should really catch up with Boston and keep them from bidding on a lot of other free agents (hopefully Lugo will go to Toronto now). The difference is that barring a block the odds were that the Jays were going to be hurt by this guy going to another AL East team. I was just hoping the price would go sky high like it did would limit the winning team's ability to make more moves down the road. The best result would have been another team getting him, unless the block comes through (I doubt it). And the problem with you simply blaming the Sox is crazy as the yanks have them backed into a corner on recent take aways from them (Damon) and they had to make a big move vs. the yanks to show something to the fan base. By no means am I defending them as their payroll is climbing to that 200 million mark as the yanks (so far) continue to back away from it. Both teams are getting out of hand, but as I stated a million times it's the leagues duty to set some fucking limits here, not just some bullshit rev sharing and claim all is well with MLB. It's a vicious cycle and it hurts the league as a whole, including the yankees of late. Now it's the Sox turn to go nuts to get back in this arms race bc they're pissed they finished behind the yanks again and even the lowly Jays. There is definitely something wrong in the league when the A's can't hold one ace over the last decade and the Jays constantly struggle just to hold on to studs they develop (Delgado, Wells and other good players). The price is crazy but I'm happy it's that high bc the Jays weren't in this one from the start. But let's be fair, I don't just get on the yanks about these issues, but ultimately blame the league. Also, much of my "vitriol" is the result of choice yankee fans and their bias here. It's the yankee Ace in the hole so to speak. Fallon, Snoogans, AJ and others are just more evenly based fans then most yank fans here(BDC, Kevin, Wadd, ESD, HHH). For every Hbox, Crippler and Campo, there are at least two Wadds.  i resind my doubt, sir.

spoon

11-15-2006, 01:37 AM

The esteemed gentleman from Clifton thanks you.Hurumph!

OGC

11-15-2006, 02:30 AM

spoon wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: HBox wrote: richg0404 wrote: HBox wrote: $51.1 million. Which means that it will cost them at a minimum a $102 million to sign Matsuzaka. ... What makes you think that the contract has to match the posting bid ?Every article I've seen estimates that the contract will be about $12 million per year.By rules of the posting system the value of the contract over the first three years must at least equal the bid amount.EDIT: I tried looking for where I read it but I can't find it. This message was edited by HBox on 11-14-06 @ 9:38 PM I've read that too, about 20 times. It has to be AT LEAST the same $$ as the bid. You know Rich, do you answer EVERY post you by saying "Where did you read that?" Its getting old. Do a little of your own research, please.  Wait what?!  He just asking people to back up their posts. It's not even as if he's calling them out, but simply asking where he can read up on it some more.  It's a great question that I think is quite valid.  I'd like to know if it's true and if that means anything in terms of years.  For example, can they just add more years to the deal to bring the average per year down to about 12 million?  Thank You Spoon.. Check out my posts BDC, whenever I post something that might be against what others are saying, I usually supply a link showing support. I am not saying that you are wrong, I just want to understand where your info comes from. You are the one who posted that the salary needs to match the posting fee, why should I have to do research to back up your point ?Why do a lot of my posts ask people for links to support their statements ? I do it because there are a lot of people who post lots of outrageous stuff just to incite arguments. In other words if you don't want me to ask for links, supply one when you first post.For example, I did do a little research into this and came up with <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Posting_System" target="_blank">this list of Japanese players who have gone thru the posting process over the past 7 or 8 years</a>. Although the salary numbers are close to posting bid in some cases, it doesn't always apply.

BoondockSaint

11-15-2006, 03:02 AM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=2662289" target="_blank">ESPN</a> says Boras is probably looking for 3 years $45mil so I don't think it has to match the posting bid.The length of Matsuzaka's deal could be a sticking point. Boras, in all likelihood, would prefer to negotiate a three-year contract for, say, $15 million annually, then take Matsuzaka out on the market again when he's 29 years old and a proven winner on the biggest stage. It's believed the Red Sox favor a more longterm commitment, at lord knows what kind of dollars.

spoon

11-15-2006, 03:18 AM

No problem Rich.  Iz just callz em as Iz seez em.  And I didn't think it had to match the bid.  The dealings with the club and player are tied, but the processes are independent.

crb1

11-15-2006, 04:08 AM

BoondockSaint wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=2662289" target="_blank">ESPN</a> says Boras is probably looking for 3 years $45mil so I don't think it has to match the posting bid. The length of Matsuzaka's deal could be a sticking point. Boras, in all likelihood, would prefer to negotiate a three-year contract for, say, $15 million annually, then take Matsuzaka out on the market again when he's 29 years old and a proven winner on the biggest stage. It's believed the Red Sox favor a more longterm commitment, at lord knows what kind of dollars.  I don't think it has to match either.  I haven't been able to find information anywhere that said it did.  Interestingly enough, Orestes Destrades actually reported the bid was over $50 million on XM 175 when everyone kept saying it was in the high 30's-low 40's.  He must have better sources than I gave him credit for.Has anyone read about the Sox plans to turn this into some expansion into Japan where they can generate revenue through the broadcast of Sox games, merchandising, etc.?  I checked some of the Boston papers this morning, but found nothing. And the Sox are in an odd situation now where it benefits them to sign a pitcher long term.  Normally, teams would shy away from anything over 4 years, but they may need to go to 5 years to make the posting fee look sane.

OGC

11-15-2006, 04:19 AM

crb1 wrote:Has anyone read about the Sox plans to turn this into some expansion into Japan where they can generate revenue through the broadcast of Sox games, merchandising, etc.? I checked some of the Boston papers this morning, but found nothing.  I have only read the articles speculating about how the Red Sox could recoup some of the posting fee. I know that MLB controls the broadcast rights of all teams anywhere other than the home markets so that isn't a money making option for the  Sox.Where they would be able to benefit would be the merchandising in Japan. I can't imagine that there are a lot of  Japanese kids walking around with Red Sox jerseys on right now, but if this "National Treasure" plays in Boston, that would change. Another thing that would generate money would be advertising space at Fenway Park. When MLB markets the Red Sox games to Japan, Japanese companys might pay a pretty penny to get their Logos all over the Green Monster. I know I've seen plenty of these types of ads in Yankee Stadium and in Seattle.That being said, I still can't imagine that they can generate anywhere near $50 million in merchandising or advertising fees.

RapistWit

11-15-2006, 01:34 PM

The Sox absolutely want to get their foot in the door in not only Japan but all of Asia. In fact one could argue that this is more important to Boston than how the particular players preforms in the MLB. Take a look some of the big English soccer clubs who are fighting tooth and nail for a presence in the far east. Manchester United even has a Chinese player on their roster for just such a purpose

cougarjake13

11-15-2006, 02:38 PM

richg0404 wrote:  crb1 wrote: Has anyone read about the Sox plans to turn this into some expansion into Japan where they can generate revenue through the broadcast of Sox games, merchandising, etc.? I checked some of the Boston papers this morning, but found nothing.  I have only read the articles speculating about how the Red Sox could recoup some of the posting fee. I know that MLB controls the broadcast rights of all teams anywhere other than the home markets so that isn't a money making option for the  Sox.Where they would be able to benefit would be the merchandising in Japan. I can't imagine that there are a lot of  Japanese kids walking around with Red Sox jerseys on right now, but if this "National Treasure" plays in Boston, that would change. Another thing that would generate money would be advertising space at Fenway Park. When MLB markets the Red Sox games to Japan, Japanese companys might pay a pretty penny to get their Logos all over the Green Monster. I know I've seen plenty of these types of ads in Yankee Stadium and in Seattle.That being said, I still can't imagine that they can generate anywhere near $50 million in merchandising or advertising fees. over a period of years they could recoup some if not all the money

HBox

11-15-2006, 04:22 PM

I'm going to stand by that contract must equal the bid thing for now because I do remember reading it in a couple of places and apparently Buster Olney either said the same thing on ESPN or on his insider blog.However, on the topic of how much the Red Sox can make off of Matsuzaka, apparently not much, and this time I do have a link."That's pretty rich," said Andrew Zimbalist, a Smith College economist
who specializes in baseball finances, of the projected investment. "But
it looks like it's more about winning than revenues."...Zimbalist estimated that the Sox might gain no more than $3 million
a year by cashing in on the Japanese icon because they would be
required under major league rules to equally distribute the vast
majority of their earnings related to the merchandising of Matsuzaka
with the 29 other teams.By all indications, the Sox would have
to devise a unique marketing strategy to reap a financial windfall.
Like the Yankees and Seattle Mariners, who signed Japanese superstar
Ichiro Suzuki in 2001, the
Sox likely would benefit a bit from Japanese companies advertising in
their ballpark. The Sox almost certainly would add a sushi stand at
Fenway. "Matsu-tinis," a variation on the "Ichi-tinis" that surfaced
with Suzuki in Seattle, could flow in the luxury suites. And the
ballpark tours might become bilingual to accommodate a crush of
Japanese fans -- if Matsuzaka delivers....But even if Boston were struck by Matsuzaka mania, causing a run on
merchandise, the Sox would reap only as much as the other 29 teams
because of the league's revenue-sharing rules on the sale of licensed
goods. The same would go for any foreign television rights the Sox
might sell. And even though the Sox own 80 percent of NESN, which
broadcasts nearly their entire schedule, the network would be unlikely
to attract much, if any, new advertising tailored to the region's
relatively small Japanese market.Nor would the Sox be likely to
cash in on increased ticket sales, since they set a season attendance
record (2,930,588) last season while extending their streak of
consecutive sellouts to 307 games since 2003.<a href="http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/11/15/sox_to_pay_511m_in_quest_to_sign_pitcher/?page=full" target="_self">There's more here. </a>

Bulldogcakes

11-15-2006, 06:06 PM

Nice find H. I thought the only possible way they could come close to breaking even was on huge foreign TV ratings, since the Bosox own NESN. But as you saidThe same would go for any foreign television rights the Sox might sell.
And even though the Sox own 80 percent of NESN, which broadcasts nearly
their entire schedule, the network would be unlikely to attract much,
if any, new advertising tailored to the region's relatively small
Japanese market. I'm also starting to wonder about how successful he'll be here. Mike and the Dog did a good interview w/Bobby Valentine today, and while he says he's a terrific pitcher and should be successful, he always stopped short of calling him anything close to dominant. And the only possibilty of this contract making any sense (on the field) is if he's prime Randy Johnson and/or Pedro Martinez type good. Some Bobby V quotes that stuck out   "Pedro (Martinez) had more electric stuff""He throws about 90-93 MPH""How he reacts to being taken out in the 3rd inning? I dont know, because that'll be a new experience for him " "THe adjustment will be the loud sound (power of the AL hitters) when he makes a mistake. Which will happen more often in the AL than it does here in the Pacific League. " "The one pitch he doesn't have great control of is his fastball" To be fair, he also said "If Matsuzaka is a total flop, it'll be a bigger upset than the Titanic". Even with that, he's saying 'I be shocked if he sucks'. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. Subtract all the hype, he sounds like a #2 or #3 to me.

TheGameHHH

11-15-2006, 06:52 PM

even still BDC, the thought of him on the red sox scares me big time.

spoon

11-15-2006, 07:12 PM

And plenty of dominating pitchers don't throw their fastball harder then 93 mph.  The Jays have two, Ryan and Halladay.  It really doesn't mean much if it's deceptive, based on arm angles and the rest of the pitcher's arsenal.  He was never labeled a flamethrower, but more of a great overall pitcher.  I know you didn't want to spend all that money on him BDC, but labeling him a #3 is just goin with the reverse hype bc the local teams didn't land him.  Sour grapes is all. 

OGC

11-16-2006, 03:00 AM

TheGameHHH wrote: even still BDC, the thought of him on the red sox scares me big time. I'm a Red Sox fan and the thought of him in the Yankee's lineup scared me. But the thought of spending this much money on a pitcher who could be injured just about anytime scares me too.But it ain't my money that they are spending.

Bulldogcakes

11-16-2006, 02:33 PM

spoon wrote: And plenty of dominating pitchers don't throw their fastball harder then 93 mph. The Jays have two, Ryan and Halladay. It really doesn't mean much if it's deceptive, based on arm angles and the rest of the pitcher's arsenal. He was never labeled a flamethrower, but more of a great overall pitcher. I know you didn't want to spend all that money on him BDC, but labeling him a #3 is just goin with the reverse hype bc the local teams didn't land him. Sour grapes is all.   And to be fair, with the assortment of pitches he throws (for strikes) you can pitch effectively with a 90ish fastball. But your mistakes will get clobbered, especially since he apparently likes to pitch up in the zone.  Spoon, you're the first one to complain when the Yanks spend tons of money on players (which are at least proven MLB talents) This one doesn't bother you? I know I'm getting ahead of the curve here, but if they do sign him, it'll be another 40-50 mil for about 3 years of service. That's about 30 mil per year, the highest expenditure for any player in baseball history. That's just carzy, especially when many who've seen him have some reservations about him. To spend like that, he needs to be a no-brainer, dominant. <blockquote />  Be honest, if the Yanks made this bid, you'd be screaming how bad it is for baseball. Why is it any better for baseball if the (#2 payroll 130 mil) Red Sox do it? Where's your outrage on the deal itself, on its own merits?I'm not the only one<a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6166608" target="_self" title="Ken Rosenthal ">Ken Rosenthal </a><a href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=2664555&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmlb %2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dneyer_r ob%26id%3d2664555" target="_self" title="Rob Neyer ">Rob Neyer </a>

spoon

11-16-2006, 05:59 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:   spoon wrote: And plenty of dominating pitchers don't throw their fastball harder then 93 mph. The Jays have two, Ryan and Halladay. It really doesn't mean much if it's deceptive, based on arm angles and the rest of the pitcher's arsenal. He was never labeled a flamethrower, but more of a great overall pitcher. I know you didn't want to spend all that money on him BDC, but labeling him a #3 is just goin with the reverse hype bc the local teams didn't land him. Sour grapes is all.   And to be fair, with the assortment of pitches he throws (for strikes) you can pitch effectively with a 90ish fastball. But your mistakes will get clobbered, especially since he apparently likes to pitch up in the zone.  Spoon, you're the first one to complain when the Yanks spend tons of money on players (which are at least proven MLB talents) This one doesn't bother you? I know I'm getting ahead of the curve here, but if they do sign him, it'll be another 40-50 mil for about 3 years of service. That's about 30 mil per year, the highest expenditure for any player in baseball history. That's just carzy, especially when many who've seen him have some reservations about him. To spend like that, he needs to be a no-brainer, dominant.   Be honest, if the Yanks made this bid, you'd be screaming how bad it is for baseball. Why is it any better for baseball if the (#2 payroll 130 mil) Red Sox do it? Where's your outrage on the deal itself, on its own merits?I'm not the only one<a title="Ken Rosenthal " href="http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6166608" target="_self">Ken Rosenthal </a><a title="Rob Neyer " href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=2664555&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmlb %2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dneyer_r ob%26id%3d2664555" target="_self">Rob Neyer </a>  Seriously Steve, read the fucking other posts before you rip into someone so you don't look like an ass.  We've covered this here and in other threads multiple times.  Stop going back to the same point when it doesn't stand up in an effort to get me on the defense.  In summation, I hate the process, the contract and the whole MLB FA setup right now.  If this doesn't end up being a block it's crazy and I've even given the yanks credit for seemingly being more controlled of late even though I think it's the result of cricumstance and not will.  The only way to fix this shit is to fix the system overall or it'll continue to be an up and down arms race between 10% of the teams and the one or two lower teams in the mix for that said year.  It's a vicious cycle and right now the Sox seem to be the lead while the yanks were again last year in the offseason and with trades (Damon/Abreu and more).  A few other teams are trying to catch up, but this just makes the teams like the Mets, Sox and yanks pick up the pace.  Fortunately it looks like the yanks either hit there roof of late, or Cashman is in more control with George being a little ill and the TB brain trust having less influence.  Read the earlier posts in this thread as well as in the yank thread and then make a valid point.

Kevin

11-16-2006, 06:13 PM

spoon wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote:   spoon wrote: And plenty of dominating pitchers don't throw their fastball harder then 93 mph. The Jays have two, Ryan and Halladay. It really doesn't mean much if it's deceptive, based on arm angles and the rest of the pitcher's arsenal. He was never labeled a flamethrower, but more of a great overall pitcher. I know you didn't want to spend all that money on him BDC, but labeling him a #3 is just goin with the reverse hype bc the local teams didn't land him. Sour grapes is all.   And to be fair, with the assortment of pitches he throws (for strikes) you can pitch effectively with a 90ish fastball. But your mistakes will get clobbered, especially since he apparently likes to pitch up in the zone.  Spoon, you're the first one to complain when the Yanks spend tons of money on players (which are at least proven MLB talents) This one doesn't bother you? I know I'm getting ahead of the curve here, but if they do sign him, it'll be another 40-50 mil for about 3 years of service. That's about 30 mil per year, the highest expenditure for any player in baseball history. That's just carzy, especially when many who've seen him have some reservations about him. To spend like that, he needs to be a no-brainer, dominant.   Be honest, if the Yanks made this bid, you'd be screaming how bad it is for baseball. Why is it any better for baseball if the (#2 payroll 130 mil) Red Sox do it? Where's your outrage on the deal itself, on its own merits?I'm not the only one<a title="Ken Rosenthal " href="http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6166608" target="_self">Ken Rosenthal </a><a title="Rob Neyer " href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=2664555&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmlb %2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dneyer_r ob%26id%3d2664555" target="_self">Rob Neyer </a>  Seriously Steve, read the fucking other posts before you rip into someone so you don't look like an ass.  We've covered this here and in other threads multiple times.  Stop going back to the same point when it doesn't stand up in an effort to get me on the defense.  In summation, I hate the process, the contract and the whole MLB FA setup right now.  If this doesn't end up being a block it's crazy and I've even given the yanks credit for seemingly being more controlled of late even though I think it's the result of cricumstance and not will.  The only way to fix this shit is to fix the system overall or it'll continue to be an up and down arms race between 10% of the teams and the one or two lower teams in the mix for that said year.  It's a vicious cycle and right now the Sox seem to be the lead while the yanks were again last year in the offseason and with trades (Damon/Abreu and more).  A few other teams are trying to catch up, but this just makes the teams like the Mets, Sox and yanks pick up the pace.  Fortunately it looks like the yanks either hit there roof of late, or Cashman is in more control with George being a little ill and the TB brain trust having less influence.  Read the earlier posts in this thread as well as in the yank thread and then make a valid point.  Yea i gotta agree with Spoon. The reason why no one is making this big stink about the sox spending so much is because even if they sign Matsuzuka for 50mil a year they would still have a payroll 25mil less than the Yanks. That is how ridicules the Yanks got BCC (Before Cashman Control) Yea if the Sox keep spending and get to the Yankee level, the rest of the league will start to bitch about them, until

cougarjake13

11-23-2006, 12:07 PM

according to thisarticlethe sawx only have to pony up the 51 mil if he signs, money is due in one lump sum 5 days after he signsso if this was to just block then the sawx are out nothing<a href="http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=matsuzakamightnotendupin&prov=tsn&type=l gns">http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=matsuzakamightnotendupin&prov=tsn&type=l gns</a>

spoon

11-23-2006, 12:34 PM

God I hope they do it!

Kevin

11-23-2006, 12:39 PM

spoon wrote: God I hope they do it!Sign or block Spoon? I hope they sign him.

Kevin

11-23-2006, 12:44 PM

19 18 would be an awful number once again for Sox fans. Two awful bust pitchers, 19 Beckett 18 Matsazuka.

cougarjake13

11-23-2006, 01:12 PM

spoon wrote: God I hope they do it!well one point the article makes that i like is the kevin millar fiasco a few years back so they already may have angered the japanese a little, a block move would only further the fire

A.J.

11-24-2006, 03:46 AM

Kevin wrote: 19 18 would be an awful number once again for Sox fans. Two awful bust pitchers, 19 Beckett 18 Matsazuka. The jury is still out on Beckett.  It was his first year with the team and in the AL.Now Matt Clement however....

OGC

11-26-2006, 03:58 AM

Here is an intersting take from the Boston Globe on the $51 million that he Sox paid for the negotiating rights to Matsuzaka. I hadn't thought of this angle.The cost of player development. It's a ballpark figure, but some baseball people calculate it costs $20 million-$40 million to develop a front-line player -- from the time he's drafted out of high school or college and signed to a lucrative bonus to the time he gets that superstar contract. That would justify the amounts ($30 million-$39 million) the Mets, Yankees, Rangers, and Angels posted for Matsuzaka.You then factor in the two or three years he's under your control; the arbitration years when the money goes up; maybe even his first major contract to buy out the arbitration years, and then the payment for the big contract when he reaches superstar status.When you look at it that way, if you had Matsuzaka in your farm system at age 18, signed him as an amateur player, paid for his instruction, signed him to major league contracts, etc., it probably wouldn't have added up to $51.1 million, but perhaps a sizable fraction of that.It's absolutely a risk, but for Boston, Matsuzaka's youth, talent, and upside -- and the possibility of recouping some of the posting fee -- appears to be worth the gamble. <a href="http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/11/26/financially_not_a_big_hit/?rss_id=Red%20Sox%20stories%20from%20Boston.com" target="_blank">Here's the full article</a>

Bulldogcakes

11-26-2006, 04:08 AM

I was waiting for someone to come up with some "new math" on why this is actually reasonable. Its not. They still are spending all their money on the farm system trying to develop new talent. This money is ON TOP of that. If this means they will SUBTRACT this money from what they will be spending going foward signing young talent, then they will have no good new prospects for around 2 or 3 years. If you follow the amatuer drafts, good prospects will get anywhere from a mil to 4 or 5 mil generally as a signing bonus. All for one pitcher who might be a bust. Crazy. Sounds like more of the BS Scott Boras likes to put out. And shame on Theo if he's buying it.

OGC

11-26-2006, 04:14 AM

Good point BDC, although the cost of a farm system may approach those numbers, a team certainly would get much more out of the farm system than one player.

Bulldogcakes

12-05-2006, 06:32 PM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2687827">Red Sox agree to 4-year, $36 million deal with Lugo</a>

A.J.

12-06-2006, 06:22 AM

Nice slap in the face to Johnny Damon with the J.D. Drew deal.

johnniewalker

12-06-2006, 06:29 AM

A.J. wrote: Nice slap in the face to Johnny Damon with the J.D. Drew deal. That's a great point, unless they've discovered they found 100 million just laying around from last year to this year to sign Drew and Matsuzaka that's shitty move on their part.

Fezticle98

12-06-2006, 06:32 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2687827">Red Sox agree to 4-year, $36 million deal with Lugo</a> Good signing. A big upgrade offensively, although it will hurt the defense. JD Drew will be a good signing if he can stay healthy. 3- Ortiz 4- Ramirez 5- Drew is one hell of a middle of the order.Guess I can't heckle Lugo for being a wife beater anymore.

Don Stugots

12-06-2006, 06:32 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2687827">Red Sox agree to 4-year, $36 million deal with Lugo</a>  the only reason i am happy about this is that mike and the mad dog were SOOOOOO sure he was signing with the mets yesterday.  Russo rambled on how smart OMARA is and if he wanted someone, he wouldnt get out bid.  WRONG DICK, nothing is ever done till the ink is on the contract.

BoondockSaint

12-06-2006, 07:21 AM

STUGOTS1 wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2687827">Red Sox agree to 4-year, $36 million deal with Lugo</a>  the only reason i am happy about this is that mike and the mad dog were SOOOOOO sure he was signing with the mets yesterday.  Russo rambled on how smart OMARA is and if he wanted someone, he wouldnt get out bid.  WRONG DICK, nothing is ever done till the ink is on the contract.  What I heard them say was that Omar wouldn't get into any bidding wars.

Don Stugots

12-06-2006, 07:23 AM

BoondockSaint wrote: STUGOTS1 wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2687827">Red Sox agree to 4-year, $36 million deal with Lugo</a> the only reason i am happy about this is that mike and the mad dog were SOOOOOO sure he was signing with the mets yesterday. Russo rambled on how smart OMARA is and if he wanted someone, he wouldnt get out bid. WRONG DICK, nothing is ever done till the ink is on the contract. What I heard them say was that Omar wouldn't get into any bidding wars. at around 6.00 they want on and on about speaking to him on the phone over the weekend and how he was hot for lugo or maybe it was javi vas, former yankee.  i was on the phone, so i maybe wrong, you can kick me in the shin if i am wrong.

cougarjake13

12-06-2006, 03:00 PM

STUGOTS1 wrote: BoondockSaint wrote: STUGOTS1 wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2687827">Red Sox agree to 4-year, $36 million deal with Lugo</a> the only reason i am happy about this is that mike and the mad dog were SOOOOOO sure he was signing with the mets yesterday. Russo rambled on how smart OMARA is and if he wanted someone, he wouldnt get out bid. WRONG DICK, nothing is ever done till the ink is on the contract. What I heard them say was that Omar wouldn't get into any bidding wars.  at around 6.00 they want on and on about speaking to him on the phone over the weekend and how he was hot for lugo or maybe it was javi vas, former yankee.  i was on the phone, so i maybe wrong, you can kick me in the shin if i am wrong.   screw the shin i'll kick you in the funbags

A.J.

12-07-2006, 04:34 AM

The best Red Sox news of all: <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061205&content_id=1751228&vkey=n ews_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos">Jon Lester is cancer-free</a>.

Bulldogcakes

12-07-2006, 05:39 PM

I'll post this again here, since its about you guys.  Here's a scenario, and it might be a likely one. Pettite goes to the Yanks, Clemens goes to the Bosox and they face each other in the playoffs. Hopefully a game 7. THough the days of 2 teams getting to the playoffs from the AL East may be over, with the AL Central being what it is.

ChrisTheCop

12-07-2006, 05:52 PM

single game tickets go on sale Saturday!!! December 9 !!!!!!!!!!Merry effin Christmas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A.J.

12-08-2006, 03:44 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Clemens goes to the Bosox Won't happen.

Bulldogcakes

12-08-2006, 03:46 PM

A.J. wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: Clemens goes to the Bosox Won't happen.Isolate that.

Don Stugots

12-08-2006, 03:49 PM

A.J. wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: Clemens goes to the Bosox Won't happen. its 50/50 that he goes to NY, Boston or the Stros.

crb1

12-08-2006, 03:52 PM

STUGOTS1 wrote:  its 50/50 that he goes to NY, Boston or the Stros. I don't think that's mathematically possible.

Bulldogcakes

12-08-2006, 03:59 PM

crb1 wrote: STUGOTS1 wrote: its 50/50 that he goes to NY, Boston or the Stros. I don't think that's mathematically possible. <img src="http://www.paxtonphoto.com/People/Yogi%20Berra%20at%20Home.jpg" border="0" width="222" height="294" />"Sure it is. Half the game is 90% mental."

cougarjake13

12-08-2006, 07:27 PM

crb1 wrote: STUGOTS1 wrote:  its 50/50 that he goes to NY, Boston or the Stros. I don't think that's mathematically possible.the only way i see it as possible is if you change it to remaining with houston or leaving to go to another franchisebut thats not how he worded it so oh well

Don Stugots

12-08-2006, 07:30 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: crb1 wrote: STUGOTS1 wrote: its 50/50 that he goes to NY, Boston or the Stros. I don't think that's mathematically possible. <img src="http://www.paxtonphoto.com/People/Yogi%20Berra%20at%20Home.jpg" border="0" width="222" height="294" />"Sure it is. Half the game is 90% mental."   see, someone here got it.

Bulldogcakes

12-10-2006, 05:48 AM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=2692259" title="Gammons ">Gammons </a> 1. Matsuzaka. Scott Boras insists he does not have to bring the 26-year-old right-hander to Boston this week. Boras claims that he is "arguably one of the five best starting pitchers in the game and should be paid accordingly, especially coming off of this market." In Boras's mind, that fair market price is $20 million, not that he's asking for it because of the posting system. But Boras also claims that Matsuzaka can get $15-18 million pitching in Japan, that Seibu can get a lot more than $51.1 million next year and that Boston can write off most of the posting costs with marketing and the exclusion of the luxury tax. While Boras remains adament in asking for close to a Jason Schmidt average annual value, Red Sox officials feel that the superagent prefers to keep Matsuzaka in Japan for two more years, then get $140 million for seven years after 2008. Boston essentially needs to get the Matsuzaka agreement done by Tuesday night so they can get him in Wednesday for a physical prior to the Thursday deadllne. One GM Friday said "it would be a shame for Matsuzaka and baseball to hold him out to try to force a change in the posting system." Boras has a very strong relationship with Theo Epstein, but he is willing to hold out players when necessary, such as Boston's current catcher and right fielder.

Don Stugots

12-10-2006, 05:54 AM

hold out players?  what exactly does that mean?   What would happen if they did do this to revamp the system, which it does need to be, but wouldnt that hurt the Red Sox' rep in the global market for players?

cougarjake13

12-10-2006, 06:25 AM

STUGOTS1 wrote: hold out players?  what exactly does that mean?   What would happen if they did do this to revamp the system, which it does need to be, but wouldnt that hurt the Red Sox' rep in the global market for players?   not if they can spin it that it was boras fault that no deal got donethat he had little intentions of agreeing to change the post rules

Don Stugots

12-10-2006, 06:30 AM

to me Boras is a spin doctor that most politicans would kill to have on staff.  i dont think that would happen, at the same time, he would be missing out on $$$.

cougarjake13

12-10-2006, 06:34 AM

STUGOTS1 wrote: to me Boras is a spin doctor that most politicans would kill to have on staff.  i dont think that would happen, at the same time, he would be missing out on $$$. but he prob doesnt need it now and could wait the extra time to get a bigger deal and at the same time get the post process changed which would help him too as more japanese players would be able to get in sooner and he could rep them

BoondockSaint

12-10-2006, 06:37 AM

So the Lions could make $51million with him but they want to get rid of him?  Is Boras the new lead singer of the Spin Doctors?   Is Matsuzaka "Little Miss Can't be Wrong?"

cougarjake13

12-10-2006, 06:52 AM

BoondockSaint wrote: So the Lions could make $51million with him but they want to get rid of him?  Is Boras the new lead singer of the Spin Doctors?   Is Matsuzaka "Little Miss Can't be Wrong?" i doubt that they can make 51 mil with him, im thinking the only reason they allow the posting process is to get some money out of him before he becomes a free agent and the lions are left with nothing

Bulldogcakes

12-10-2006, 01:28 PM

From Gammons on ESPN.comBoston essentially needs to get the Matsuzaka agreement done by Tuesday night so they can get him in Wednesday for a physical prior to the Thursday deadllne. One GM Friday said "it would be a shame for Matsuzaka and baseball to hold him out to try to force a change in the posting system." Boras has a very strong relationship with Theo Epstein, but he is willing to hold out players when necessary, such as Boston's current catcher and right fielder.

Kevin

12-10-2006, 01:48 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: From Gammons on ESPN.comBoston  essentially needs to get the Matsuzaka agreement done by Tuesday night so they can get him in Wednesday for a physical prior to the Thursday deadllne. One GM Friday said "it would be a shame for Matsuzaka and baseball to hold him out to try to force a change in the posting system." Boras has a very strong relationship with Theo Epstein, but he is willing to hold out players when necessary, such as Boston's current catcher and right fielder.   That's not a good moniker for A GM to have. That means that Boras has fucked you more than other GMs.

A.J.

12-13-2006, 06:46 AM

No more "Welcome Back Kapler".  <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061212&content_id=1759972&vkey=n ews_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos">Gabe Kapler retires to manage Sox farm team</a>.

TjM

12-13-2006, 08:47 AM

Silverman (Boston Globe) Reporting Matsusaka and Boris on plane to Boston with Larry, Theo, JWM deal either done or close to it

Dan 'Hampton

12-13-2006, 08:51 AM

Dice-K is on his way.  So says Boston Globe.Herald is reporting contract is being negotiated on the plane  http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

Crippler

12-13-2006, 08:53 AM

A.J. wrote: No more "Welcome Back Kapler".  <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061212&content_id=1759972&vkey=n ews_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos">Gabe Kapler retires to manage Sox farm team</a>. He's 31 years old & he's retiring to coach?  Wow, talk about a "never-was" career.  He was so hyped before he made it to the majors, between the fitness magazine covers & the prospect magazine covers, etc.  His name was everywhere for two years before he broke in.  And what a ho-hum career for a "can't miss" prospect.  Good luck, bro.

Crippler

12-13-2006, 08:55 AM

TjM wrote: Silverman (Boston Globe) Reporting Matsusaka and Boris on plane to Boston with Larry, Theo, JWM deal either done or close to it Supposedly the Sox were at around $8 million/year recently, and Boras is asking $16-$18 million/year.  That's a lot of fuckin' negotiating...hope it's not a direct flight.

crb1

12-13-2006, 09:10 AM

dschef wrote: Dice-K is on his way.  So says Boston Globe.Herald is reporting contract is being negotiated on the plane http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/Boras said he wouldn't let Matsuzaka go to Boston until he had a deal in place, so I'm guessing they finally got something done.  Whatever they're negotiating on the plane is probably some contract terminology (no-trade, option, etc.).  Sounds like the years and money is done though.  I'm curious to know what he got.  I'm guessing somewhere around $11-12 mil per for 4-5 seasons, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was closer to $14/per and/or 6 years.

This message was edited by crb1 on 12-13-06 @ 1:11 PM

Dan 'Hampton

12-13-2006, 09:49 AM

Crippler wrote: A.J. wrote: No more "Welcome Back Kapler". <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061212&content_id=1759972&vkey=n ews_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos">Gabe Kapler retires to manage Sox farm team</a>. He's 31 years old & he's retiring to coach? Wow, talk about a "never-was" career. He was so hyped before he made it to the majors, between the fitness magazine covers & the prospect magazine covers, etc. His name was everywhere for two years before he broke in. And what a ho-hum career for a "can't miss" prospect. Good luck, bro. He's one of the 26. Thats all that matters.  Dealing on the plane apparently is about contract wording and incentives.  According to EEI 

This message was edited by dschef on 12-13-06 @ 1:49 PM

BoondockSaint

12-13-2006, 10:02 AM

So he's on a plane to Boston?  Hmmm, how does this work into the great "Block Move Theory?"

BoondockSaint

12-13-2006, 10:52 AM

<a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/12/13/matsuzaka.signs/?cnn=yes" target="_blank">6 years $52 million.</a>  Wow!  Good job by the Sox.

Ritalin

12-13-2006, 12:50 PM

Do you say it "ghee-row-ball", or "jiro-ball"?<>Now I'm starving.

HBox

12-13-2006, 02:37 PM

BoondockSaint wrote: <a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/12/13/matsuzaka.signs/?cnn=yes" target="_blank">6 years $52 million.</a> Wow! Good job by the Sox.I cannot believe Scott Boras allowed his client to sign a contract liek THAT in this marketplace. Holy shit. Even considering the posting fee, 6 years and 103 million for a pitcher like Matsuzaka right now is manageable. Big coup for the Sox, great job.I don't know why Matsuzaka would accept that either. If he went back to Japan and came back as a free agent next spring he could have close to that contract plus the posting fee all for himself.

Kevin

12-13-2006, 04:17 PM

HBox wrote: BoondockSaint wrote: <a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/12/13/matsuzaka.signs/?cnn=yes" target="_blank">6 years $52 million.</a> Wow! Good job by the Sox. I cannot believe Scott Boras allowed his client to sign a contract liek THAT in this marketplace. Holy shit. Even considering the posting fee, 6 years and 103 million for a pitcher like Matsuzaka right now is manageable. Big coup for the Sox, great job. I don't know why Matsuzaka would accept that either. If he went back to Japan and came back as a free agent next spring he could have close to that contract plus the posting fee all for himself. If he does sign, he might have went over Boras head to sign it. I can not believe that Boras would agree to it. If it is true, he may have had majior pressure from Japan to sign.

Bulldogcakes

12-13-2006, 04:44 PM

Comes out to 17 per. Much better than some of the #'s we were hearing. Anything over 20 and I would have went apeshit. I still cant say good move, because none of know what he is. He could be great, could be a total bust. Boston felt that Boras had no leverage in this negotiation, and their gambit worked. So they look good.

Don Stugots

12-13-2006, 04:56 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Comes out to 17 per. Much better than some of the #'s we were hearing. Anything over 20 and I would have went apeshit. I still cant say good move, because none of know what he is. He could be great, could be a total bust. Boston felt that Boras had no leverage in this negotiation, and their gambit worked. So they look good.  if thats true, then good for the Sox.  i like to see a guy like Boras take it in the ass once in a while.

HBox

12-13-2006, 04:59 PM

Kevin wrote: HBox wrote: BoondockSaint wrote: <a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/12/13/matsuzaka.signs/?cnn=yes" target="_blank">6 years $52 million.</a> Wow! Good job by the Sox. I cannot believe Scott Boras allowed his client to sign a contract liek THAT in this marketplace. Holy shit. Even considering the posting fee, 6 years and 103 million for a pitcher like Matsuzaka right now is manageable. Big coup for the Sox, great job. I don't know why Matsuzaka would accept that either. If he went back to Japan and came back as a free agent next spring he could have close to that contract plus the posting fee all for himself. If he does sign, he might have went over Boras head to sign it. I can not believe that Boras would agree to it. If it is true, he may have had majior pressure from Japan to sign.I have doubted all those "pressure from japan" stories from the beginning. I always thought that it was just the really dirty way the Boston front office will work the media by planting stories. Sunday when things were looking grim I read a story that claimed that Matsuzaka himself never intended to sign with anyone and his aim all along was to challenge the posting system. That was on the heels of all the accusations that Boras wanted to do the same last week. They can play journalists like a piano. I'll never forget the Jayson Stark article days after Pedro signed with the Mets were someone in the Boston front office dumped every single piece of dirty laundry they could, even injuries they had been hiding. They cover their ass at ALL costs. But whatever, they really pulled one off here.

joeyballsack

12-13-2006, 05:19 PM

<a href="http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2006/12/mirabelli_retur_1.html">http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2006/12/mirabelli_retur_1.html</a> Catcher Doug Mirabelli will be returning to the Red Sox next season.A source with knowledge of the negotiations confirmed that Mirabelli agreed to a one-year deal worth $750,000 (plus performance bonuses), pending a physical. Last season, Mirabelli made $1.5 million.

Dan 'Hampton

12-13-2006, 06:27 PM

A joint JD Drew Matsusaka press conference tomorrow?

Crippler

12-14-2006, 04:16 AM

Gotta give the Sox credit, if this guy even works out to be the #3 guy, you got him for a song (at least as far as his actual salary goes).  I'm stunned that a Boras client signed for less than $9 million/year when numbers like $16 million were being thrown around.  Not to mention that he could have easily gotten $12-14 million by waiting a year & allowing for a bidding war...and it's not like he's 35 & was in a huge rush to get out of Japan.

Fezticle98

12-14-2006, 04:31 AM

joeyballsack wrote: <a href="http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2006/12/mirabelli_retur_1.html">http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2006/12/mirabelli_retur_1.html</a> Catcher Doug Mirabelli will be returning to the Red Sox next season.A source with knowledge of the negotiations confirmed that Mirabelli agreed to a one-year deal worth $750,000 (plus performance bonuses), pending a physical. Last season, Mirabelli made $1.5 million.  Glad they learned their lesson from last year. It's painful to watch anyone but Mirabelli try to catch a knuckleball from Wakefield. It's a shame they had to give up Cla Meredith to get him back from the Padres last year.

A.J.

12-14-2006, 05:04 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: I still cant say good move, because none of know what he is. He could be great, could be a total bust. Ditto.  Given some of the recent moves by Theo, I'm a little hesitant to get too excited about getting this dude.  This guy could be either another Clemens.....or another Clement.

crb1

12-14-2006, 05:33 AM

A.J. wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: I still cant say good move, because none of know what he is. He could be great, could be a total bust. Ditto.  Given some of the recent moves by Theo, I'm a little hesitant to get too excited about getting this dude.  This guy could be either another Clemens.....or another Clement.I think he's a safe bet to perform at least as well as the other guys being paid $8-9 mil/per.  It sounds like the Sox did a great job with this deal. Boras must have realized that he didn't have as much power in this negotiation as he's used to having.

Dan 'Hampton

12-14-2006, 05:44 AM

Herald is reporting that Seibu threatened to send Dice-K to the minors if he came back. Which would have delayed his free agency by a year. (Rumor was also that if he hadn't signed they would not have posted him next year.) <a href="http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=171971&format=text">http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=171971&format=text</a> And to add to the good the wife is in Boston too<a href="http://thetrack.bostonherald.com/moreTrack/view.bg?articleid=171964">http://thetrack.bostonherald.com/moreTrack/view.bg?articleid=171964</a> 

This message was edited by dschef on 12-14-06 @ 9:45 AM

crb1

12-14-2006, 07:48 AM

What exactly is Buster Olney trying to say with his analogy??? Had the Matsuzaka talks been Texas hold 'em, the table cam would have shown that superpower agent Scott Boras was holding a pair of 2s. GM Theo Epstein and the Red Sox? A pair of queens. Boras couldn't negotiate with any other team, and the Red Sox were well aware of how much Matsuzaka wants to pitch in the major leagues and how much inherent pressure there was to get a deal done.

A.J.

12-14-2006, 07:50 AM

"All in"?

BoondockSaint

12-15-2006, 11:08 AM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2698646" target="_blank">Red Sox get Donnelly form Angels.</a>  Another good move by them.

This message was edited by BoondockSaint on 12-15-06 @ 3:09 PM

cougarjake13

12-15-2006, 12:40 PM

BoondockSaint wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2698646" target="_blank">Red Sox get Donnelly form Angels.</a>  Another good move by them. This message was edited by BoondockSaint on 12-15-06 @ 3:09 PM hadnt heard much about him since the angels won the series but his stats from last year were pretty damn goodDonnelly was 6-0 with a 3.94 ERA in 62 games last season. He had a 5-0 record and a 3.52 ERA in 29 games after the All-Star break, and held the opposition scoreless in 19 of his last 21 appearances. all i can say is 60+ days till spring training

spoon

12-15-2006, 02:36 PM

Kevin

12-15-2006, 05:40 PM

spoon wrote: Kevin wrote: HBox wrote: BoondockSaint wrote: <a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/12/13/matsuzaka.signs/?cnn=yes" target="_blank">6 years $52 million.</a> Wow! Good job by the Sox. I cannot believe Scott Boras allowed his client to sign a contract liek THAT in this marketplace. Holy shit. Even considering the posting fee, 6 years and 103 million for a pitcher like Matsuzaka right now is manageable. Big coup for the Sox, great job. I don't know why Matsuzaka would accept that either. If he went back to Japan and came back as a free agent next spring he could have close to that contract plus the posting fee all for himself. If he does sign, he might have went over Boras head to sign it. I can not believe that Boras would agree to it. If it is true, he may have had majior pressure from Japan to sign.It's a block, it's a block!!!  Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!  Nice call!It was still a block. But after they saw BoraS Had no leverage and could basicaly steal him, they went for it. Good for them. But still a block.

Snacks

12-15-2006, 07:51 PM

This Dice-K is getting so over hyped could you imagine if he is a bust? The presure will be insane.

OGC

12-16-2006, 03:32 AM

Snacks wrote: This Dice-K is getting so over hyped could you imagine if he is a bust? The presure will be insane. EVERYTHING sports related is over hyped in Boston. I love the teams but it has gotten to a point where I can't watch or listen to the sports programing any more. I tune in for the games and that's about it. My rule of thumb is that if my wife brings up a sports story to me, then it is WAY overhyped, and she knows most of the details of the Dice-k story.

cougarjake13

12-16-2006, 08:05 AM

who the hell came up with this nickname of dice-k ??? was it the us media or did he have that in japanand all he has to do is be at least as good as nomo was his first few years and hopefully nowhere near hideki irabu

Snacks

12-16-2006, 08:08 AM

richg0404 wrote: Snacks wrote: This Dice-K is getting so over hyped could you imagine if he is a bust? The presure will be insane. EVERYTHING sports related is over hyped in Boston. I love the teams but it has gotten to a point where I can't watch or listen to the sports programing any more. I tune in for the games and that's about it. My rule of thumb is that if my wife brings up a sports story to me, then it is WAY overhyped, and she knows most of the details of the Dice-k story.Same in NY/NJ we are media one so imagine the hype over anything and everything?

Snacks

12-16-2006, 08:09 AM

cougarjake13 wrote: who the hell came up with this nickname of dice-k ??? was it the us media or did he have that in japanand all he has to do is be at least as good as nomo was his first few years and hopefully nowhere near hideki irabuIt was the US media. They talked about it because his name was so hard to pronounce and that he is a k pitcher so espn or the boston media I forget but it all started with that.

BoondockSaint

12-16-2006, 08:42 AM

Snacks wrote: cougarjake13 wrote: who the hell came up with this nickname of dice-k ??? was it the us media or did he have that in japanand all he has to do is be at least as good as nomo was his first few years and hopefully nowhere near hideki irabuIt was the US media. They talked about it because his name was so hard to pronounce and that he is a k pitcher so espn or the boston media I forget but it all started with that.It's actually how you pronounce his first name.  And the more I think about the Donnelly trade the more I think it was a block move.  Boston won't even use him.

Snacks

12-16-2006, 08:43 AM

BoondockSaint wrote: Snacks wrote: cougarjake13 wrote: who the hell came up with this nickname of dice-k ??? was it the us media or did he have that in japanand all he has to do is be at least as good as nomo was his first few years and hopefully nowhere near hideki irabuIt was the US media. They talked about it because his name was so hard to pronounce and that he is a k pitcher so espn or the boston media I forget but it all started with that.It's actually how you pronounce his first name.  And the more I think about the Donnelly trade the more I think it was a block move.  Boston won't even use him.why is that a block move and who did they block? They need a closer and may use donnelly as their closer or atleast a set up man

spoon

12-16-2006, 12:03 PM

Kevin wrote: spoon wrote: Kevin wrote: HBox wrote: BoondockSaint wrote: <a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/12/13/matsuzaka.signs/?cnn=yes" target="_blank">6 years $52 million.</a> Wow! Good job by the Sox. I cannot believe Scott Boras allowed his client to sign a contract liek THAT in this marketplace. Holy shit. Even considering the posting fee, 6 years and 103 million for a pitcher like Matsuzaka right now is manageable. Big coup for the Sox, great job. I don't know why Matsuzaka would accept that either. If he went back to Japan and came back as a free agent next spring he could have close to that contract plus the posting fee all for himself. If he does sign, he might have went over Boras head to sign it. I can not believe that Boras would agree to it. If it is true, he may have had majior pressure from Japan to sign.It's a block, it's a block!!!  Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!  Nice call!It was still a block. But after they saw BoraS Had no leverage and could basicaly steal him, they went for it. Good for them. But still a block.Not a chance you tart!  Nice try, you lose, good day sir!!

Kevin

12-16-2006, 12:08 PM

spoon wrote: Kevin wrote: spoon wrote: Kevin wrote: HBox wrote: BoondockSaint wrote: <a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/12/13/matsuzaka.signs/?cnn=yes" target="_blank">6 years $52 million.</a> Wow! Good job by the Sox. I cannot believe Scott Boras allowed his client to sign a contract liek THAT in this marketplace. Holy shit. Even considering the posting fee, 6 years and 103 million for a pitcher like Matsuzaka right now is manageable. Big coup for the Sox, great job. I don't know why Matsuzaka would accept that either. If he went back to Japan and came back as a free agent next spring he could have close to that contract plus the posting fee all for himself. If he does sign, he might have went over Boras head to sign it. I can not believe that Boras would agree to it. If it is true, he may have had majior pressure from Japan to sign.It's a block, it's a block!!!  Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!  Nice call!It was still a block. But after they saw BoraS Had no leverage and could basicaly steal him, they went for it. Good for them. But still a block.Not a chance you tart!  Nice try, you lose, good day sir!!BAH! Your just jelous that i won the Egg Nog battle.

spoon

12-16-2006, 12:30 PM

Ohhhh, did you!?

spoon

12-16-2006, 12:33 PM

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Dan 'Hampton

12-17-2006, 08:45 AM

An interesting if not glamourized account of landing Dice-K.  Guess these guys do know what they're doing or at least are thorough about it.<a href="http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/12/17/wooing_of_pitcher_was_wowing/?page=1" title="Wooing of pitcher was wowing">http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/12/17/wooing_of_pitcher_was_wowing/?page=1 </a>

BoondockSaint

12-17-2006, 09:13 AM

Snacks wrote: BoondockSaint wrote: Snacks wrote: cougarjake13 wrote: who the hell came up with this nickname of dice-k ??? was it the us media or did he have that in japanand all he has to do is be at least as good as nomo was his first few years and hopefully nowhere near hideki irabuIt was the US media. They talked about it because his name was so hard to pronounce and that he is a k pitcher so espn or the boston media I forget but it all started with that.It's actually how you pronounce his first name.  And the more I think about the Donnelly trade the more I think it was a block move.  Boston won't even use him.why is that a block move and who did they block? They need a closer and may use donnelly as their closer or atleast a set up manBecause the Red Sox only get guys in order to keep them away from the Yankees.  They never do it with the intention of improving their team.

kellermcgee21

12-17-2006, 02:47 PM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2700531">http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2700531</a>J.D. Drew could have issues with his contract depending on the results of a second physical.  Its possible that the amount that his contract is worth could go down or the number of years reduced.

Dan 'Hampton

12-25-2006, 05:04 PM

The longer this drags on the better it is for us.  Can't belive Theo keeps sticking it to Boras.

A.J.

12-28-2006, 06:18 AM

<a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061222&content_id=1767135&vkey=n ews_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos">"Runelvys has entered the building!"</a>

Don Stugots

12-28-2006, 06:25 AM

they really are loading up on pitching.  as a fan of baseball it is good to see, i love great pitching.

cougarjake13

12-29-2006, 02:11 PM

Don Stugots wrote: they really are loading up on pitching.  as a fan of baseball it is good to see, i love great pitching. it wont make up for overpaying a damaged jd drew

Dan 'Hampton

12-29-2006, 06:48 PM

Last I checked they haven't paid anything for Drew. Thats what the wait is for.  If they sign him with a incentive ladden contract i'm all for that.  It seems like they've played this pretty much perfectly.

cougarjake13

12-30-2006, 06:07 AM

dschef wrote: Last I checked they haven't paid anything for Drew. Thats what the wait is for.  If they sign him with a incentive ladden contract i'm all for that.  It seems like they've played this pretty much perfectly. i thought the deal was done already and they were trying to get more info on his situation to negate or reduce it

Dan 'Hampton

12-31-2006, 04:54 AM

Everything I had heard was that they had agreed to terms but then they wanted more tests.  If they had signed a deal don't you think Boras would be telling everyone that the sox were trying to back out?

cougarjake13

12-31-2006, 05:07 AM

ahh see i took agreed to terms to mean signed contract

Dan 'Hampton

01-04-2007, 05:44 PM

I know signing Joel Pienero means jack shit to us right now and we'll probably resent the day he was given 4 mil but I didn't want this thread slipping to the third page.

cougarjake13

01-04-2007, 07:19 PM

dschef wrote: I know signing Joel Pienero means jack shit to us right now and we'll probably resent the day he was given 4 mil but I didn't want this thread slipping to the third page. i remember him having a few decent seasons with seattle Year Ag Tm  Lg  W   L   G   GS  CG SHO  GF SV   IP     H    R   ER   HR  BB   SO  HBP  WP  BFP  IBB  B +--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+- 2000 21 <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2000.shtml">SEA</a> <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2000.shtml">AL</a>   1   0   8   1   0   0   5  0   19.3   25   13   12   3   13   10   0   0    94   0   0  5.59  4 2001 22 <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2001.shtml">SEA</a> <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2001.shtml">AL</a>   6   2  17  11   0   0   1  0   75.3   50   24   17   2   21   56   3   2   289   0   0  2.03   2002 23 <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2002.shtml">SEA</a> <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2002.shtml">AL</a>  14   7  37  28   2   1   4  0  194.3  189   75   70  24   54  136   7   8   812   1   0   2003 24 <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2003.shtml">SEA</a> <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2003.shtml">AL</a>  16  11  32  32   3   2   0  0  211.7  192   94   89  19   76  151   6   5   890   3   0   2004 25 <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2004.shtml">SEA</a> <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2004.shtml">AL</a>   6  11  21  21   1   0   0  0  140.7  144   77   73  21   43  111   4   4   596   1   0   2005 26 <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2005.shtml">SEA</a> <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2005.shtml">AL</a>   7  11  30  30   2   0   0  0  189.0  224  118  118  23   56  107   6   7   822   4   1   2006 27 <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2006.shtml">SEA</a> <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2006.shtml">AL</a>   8&n

OGC

01-14-2007, 12:32 PM

Has anyone heard anything about the J.T. Drew situation lately?

whiskyriver

01-14-2007, 01:09 PM

nope....still same as it was

there is some very strange about this

cougarjake13

01-15-2007, 05:08 AM

richg0404 wrote: Has anyone heard anything about the J.T. Drew situation lately? nope turns out he never existednow the j.d. drew situation is still up in the air

Dan 'Hampton

01-15-2007, 06:34 AM

The longer we wait the cheaper we're going to get him.  You haven't heard Boras complaining about this or saying other teams are lining up for Drew are you?

cougarjake13

01-15-2007, 06:40 AM

dschef wrote: The longer we wait the cheaper we're going to get him.  You haven't heard Boras complaining about this or saying other teams are lining up for Drew are you? i havent heard anything since the questions of his health came up

Dan 'Hampton

01-15-2007, 07:33 AM

I'm guessing they are going to give him a incentive ladden contract.  If they get him to sign that then the score this offseason is going to be Theo 2- Boras 0.

A.J.

01-15-2007, 10:28 AM

I hope the Drew deals falls through and they re-sign Trot.

Fallon

01-15-2007, 12:19 PM

It's Clemens talk again in Boston. Ugh.

crb1

01-15-2007, 12:23 PM

Fallon wrote: It's Clemens talk again in Boston. Ugh. And no one loves Clemens talk more than...Clemens.

Bulldogcakes

01-17-2007, 03:13 PM

I still cant believe the Red Sox are going into this season with pretty much NOBODY in the bullpen. Maybe they're tapped out after Matsuzaka, but I doubt that as well.  This is how I see things playing out.1)They go into the season testing out rookies in the bullpen, like they did last year with Paps. 2) Most of them suck, and they realize not everybody is Paps. They're 7 games out by the end of April 3) They sign Clemens in May, move Paps back to closer and make a run at it.

Dan 'Hampton

01-17-2007, 03:17 PM

Paps will be in the pen.  The team might not want it but he's said that he'd have no problem going back.  The bullpen don't look too bad just no one at the end.

A.J.

01-18-2007, 03:55 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: I still cant believe the Red Sox are going into this season with pretty much NOBODY in the bullpen. Maybe they're tapped out after Matsuzaka, but I doubt that as well. Are you talking about a closer?  Because they have bulked up the bullpen in the offseason (new guys highlighted)Bullpen <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=475022">C. Hansen</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=456138">N. Debarr</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=430837">L. DiNardo</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=216897">K. Snyder</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=334492">J. Pineiro</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=123348">M. Timlin</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=407791">B. Donnelly</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=240694">J. Romero</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=123118">J. Tavarez</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=434668">M. Delcarmen</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=444520">C. Breslow</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=425657">J. Lopez</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=451257">K. Gabbard</a>And one of the the possibilities they talked about was trying out young minor leaguer Devern Hansack as a closer.  He had a no-hitter going when he started the rain-delayed final game of the season.

Basedow

01-18-2007, 06:01 AM

A.J. wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: I still cant believe the Red Sox are going into this season with pretty much NOBODY in the bullpen. Maybe they're tapped out after Matsuzaka, but I doubt that as well. Are you talking about a closer? Because they have bulked up the bullpen in the offseason (new guys highlighted)Bullpen <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=475022">C. Hansen</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=456138">N. Debarr</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=430837">L. DiNardo</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=216897">K. Snyder</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=334492">J. Pineiro</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=123348">M. Timlin</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=407791">B. Donnelly</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=240694">J. Romero</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=123118">J. Tavarez</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=434668">M. Delcarmen</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=444520">C. Breslow</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=425657">J. Lopez</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=451257">K. Gabbard</a>And one of the the possibilities they talked about was trying out young minor leaguer Devern Hansack as a closer. He had a no-hitter going when he started the rain-delayed final game of the season.  Yanks fan, but i think that Donnelly signing could be a nice move.   They also have a Japanese guy with some upside, some people even think he has a shot at becoming the closer this season if Papelbon doesnt get his wish to remain in the back of the pen.  <a href="http://www.japaneseballplayers.com/en/player.php?id=hokajima">Okajima, Hideki</a><a href="http://www.japaneseballplayers.com/en/player.php?id=hokajima"> </a>

joeyballsack

01-18-2007, 02:22 PM

I got to see Hansacks debut in Toronto last year. He had pretty good stuff for the first 4 innings or so. I could possibly see him in the closer role.

Bulldogcakes

01-18-2007, 05:44 PM

A.J. wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: I still cant believe the Red Sox are going into this season with pretty much NOBODY in the bullpen. Maybe they're tapped out after Matsuzaka, but I doubt that as well. Are you talking about a closer? Because they have bulked up the bullpen in the offseason (new guys highlighted)Bullpen <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=475022">C. Hansen</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=456138">N. Debarr</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=430837">L. DiNardo</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=216897">K. Snyder</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=334492">J. Pineiro</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=123348">M. Timlin</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=407791">B. Donnelly</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=240694">J. Romero</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=123118">J. Tavarez</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=434668">M. Delcarmen</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=444520">C. Breslow</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=425657">J. Lopez</a> <a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=451257">K. Gabbard</a>And one of the the possibilities they talked about was trying out young minor leaguer Devern Hansack as a closer. He had a no-hitter going when he started the rain-delayed final game of the season.Yeah, there's still not a closer on the team and I'm not sure about alot of the other guys. Piniero was hideous last year, Timlin is approaching social security age and I wouldn't trust JC Romero one bit. You saw what Tavarez did vs the Yanks last year. Many of the other guys either I dont know or are unproven, so I think there's alot of question marks there. I'm sure some will turn out to be solid, others will be absolute garbage. If that was my bullpen for the Yanks this year, I'd be worried.

Dan 'Hampton

01-18-2007, 05:52 PM

Who do the Yanks have back there besides Mariano? 

Kevin

01-18-2007, 07:25 PM

dschef wrote: Who do the Yanks have back there besides Mariano?  Jeez thats like saying so who else lined up  besides Scarlett Johanson on Friday.. Whats your Mon through thurs...We have Farnsworth Procter Vizciano..... Bruney.... and a few others that i do know...

This message was edited by Kevin on 1-18-07 @ 11:29 PM

Dan 'Hampton

01-19-2007, 01:41 AM

Yeah so seriously who's supposed to scare me back there?  Same team that couldn't beat the tigers still right?

Basedow

01-19-2007, 05:52 AM

dschef wrote: Yeah so seriously who's supposed to scare me back there? Same team that couldn't beat the tigers still right? its the same team that finished 10 games in front of the sox though. And the yanks bullpen only gave up 2 runs in 8 and 1/3 innings during that horrible divsion series. that wasnt really the problem.

A.J.

01-19-2007, 06:07 AM

<a href="http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070117&content_id=1781375&vkey=n ews_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos">Speaking of the Sox closer situation</a>.

Dan 'Hampton

01-19-2007, 06:11 AM

I guess when i comes down to it i'm not worried about the closer... yet.  The Sox seem to have no problem opening the checkbook this year and I have no doubt that if things get bad they'll take emergency measures.  This isn't last years Sox anymore.

Basedow

01-19-2007, 07:19 AM

<h3 class="entry-header"><a href="http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/01/indians_sign_tr.html">Indians Sign Trot Nixon</a></h3> Despite <a href="http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07019/755085-63.stm">recent interest</a> from the Pirates, <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2735974">the Indians signed</a> right fielder <a href="http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/N/Trot-Nixon.shtml">Trot Nixon</a> for one year and $3MM.  Even with Nixon on the decline, it's hard not to like the signing for the Tribe.  The Indians already have a decent RF in <a href="http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Shin-Soo-Choo.shtml">Shin-Soo Choo</a>, but this provides some depth and strong defense.  A Nixon/Choo platoon probably wouldn't make sense - looking at the splits for <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=5731&type=batting3">both</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/pl/425/425783TacPCLb06.html">players</a>, neither can hit lefties.  However, <a href="http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/Casey-Blake.shtml">Casey Blake</a> can play right when the Indians face a southpaw. The Tribe will have roughly 1800 ABs to go around for Blake, Nixon, Choo, <a href="http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/G/Ryan-Garko.shtml">Ryan Garko</a>, <a href="http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/D/David-Dellucci.shtml">David Dellucci</a>, <a href="http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Jason-Michaels.shtml">Jason Michaels</a>, and <a href="http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/G/Franklin-Gutierrez.shtml">Franklin Gutierrez</a>.  Perhaps a trade is in order.

A.J.

01-19-2007, 07:22 AM

Basedow wrote: <h3 class="entry-header"><a href="http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/01/indians_sign_tr.html">Indians Sign Trot Nixon</a></h3>DAMMIT.

OGC

01-19-2007, 01:44 PM

A.J. wrote: Basedow wrote: <h3 class="entry-header"><a href="http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/01/indians_sign_tr.html">Indians Sign Trot Nixon</a></h3>DAMMIT.Ditto

BoondockSaint

01-25-2007, 06:04 PM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2742971" target="_blank">Drew deal finalized.</a>

NortonRules

01-25-2007, 06:14 PM

Congrats on spending a lot of money on an injured outfielder. 

Dan 'Hampton

01-26-2007, 02:21 AM

I'm still fine with this as long as he's not replacing Manny.

Bulldogcakes

01-27-2007, 06:08 AM

<a href="http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/mlb/index?&lpos=globalnav&lid=gn_MLB_MLB" title="Helton to the Bosox?">Helton to the Bosox?</a><h3>Buster Olney: Trade winds in Rockies?</h3> If reported trade talks on a deal sending Colorado 1B Todd Helton to Boston come to fruition, the veteran would give the Red Sox a patient, powerful line-up to rival the Yankees, writes Buster Olney I'll believe it when it happens. They've been dangling him for years because of his huge salary. If Theo takes that salary, the Red Sox payroll may actually be bigger than the Yankees, when you factor in the off the books D-Mat $$. I guess then the rest of the AL can call the Bosox the "Evil Empire".

cougarjake13

01-27-2007, 06:17 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: <a href="http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/mlb/index?&lpos=globalnav&lid=gn_MLB_MLB" title="Helton to the Bosox?">Helton to the Bosox?</a><h3>Buster Olney: Trade winds in Rockies?</h3>If reported trade talks on a deal sending Colorado 1B Todd Helton to Boston come to fruition, the veteran would give the Red Sox a patient, powerful line-up to rival the Yankees, writes Buster Olney   I'll believe it when it happens. They've been dangling him for years because of his huge salary. If Theo takes that salary, the Red Sox payroll may actually be bigger than the Yankees, when you factor in the off the books D-Mat $$. I guess then the rest of the AL can call the Bosox the "Evil Empire".  id love it if the sawx got helton, make the yanks sweat a lil bit

Bulldogcakes

01-27-2007, 06:23 AM

Nah, Red Sox have had stacked lineups for years. Pitching pitching pitching, and I dont like the Sox pitching. And their bullpen is a disaster.

Dan 'Hampton

01-27-2007, 06:31 AM

richg0404 wrote: A.J. wrote: Basedow wrote: <h3 class="entry-header"><a href="http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/01/indians_sign_tr.html">Indians Sign Trot Nixon</a></h3>DAMMIT.Ditto Now i gotta get a new shirt.  Don't get me wrong my nixon T will always be kept in high regard, but I need a new one.  Maybe Lester.

Dan 'Hampton

01-27-2007, 06:34 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Nah, Red Sox have had stacked lineups for years. Pitching pitching pitching, and I dont like the Sox pitching. And their bullpen is a disaster.  I'm okay with the pitching, except for the pen.  The globe is speculating today that Drew could end up playing CF and Crisp could be delt in a trade for a closer.  I still say put Paps back there.  He wants to and i'm not buying the whole injured shoulder thing.

Dan 'Hampton

01-27-2007, 06:50 AM

More info on Helton trade possibility.<a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6414656" target="_blank" title="Foc Sports">http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6414656</a>

Crippler

01-27-2007, 09:18 AM

I've always been a big Helton fan, so naturally this would make me sick.  But it would be a really good move on the Sawx part, especially if they get Colorado to eat a decent part of the salary.

This message was edited by Crippler on 1-27-07 @ 1:52 PM

kellermcgee21

01-27-2007, 01:19 PM

Wow I didn't hear anything about this but if the Sawx get Helton that would be huge.  I've always thought helton deserved the chance to play for a contender after the loyalty he's shown the rockies over his career.

sailor

01-27-2007, 01:44 PM

kellermcgee21 wrote: Wow I didn't hear anything about this but if the Sawx get Helton that would be huge. I've always thought helton deserved the chance to play for a contender after the loyalty he's shown the rockies over his career. outside of coors, helton will be a big letdown.<table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" class="tablehead"><tbody><tr class="colhead" align="right"><td align="left">SPLIT</td> <td>AB</td> <td>R</td> <td>H</td> <td>2B</td> <td>3B</td> <td>HR</td> <td>RBI</td> <td>BB</td> <td>HBP</td> <td>SO</td> <td>SB</td> <td>CS</td> <td>AVG</td> <td>OBP</td> <td>SLG</td> <td>OPS</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" align="right"><td align="left">Home</td> <td>275</td><td>57</td><td>93</td><td>21</td><td>4</td><td>8</td><td>51</td><td>53</td><td>3</td><td>24</td><td>2</td><td>2</td><td>.338</td><td>.445</td><td>.531</td><td>.976</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow" align="right"><td align="left">Away</td> <td>271</td><td>37</td><td>72</td><td>19</td><td>1</td><td>7</td><td>30</td><td>38</td><td>3</td><td>40</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>.266</td><td>.360</td><td>.421</td><td>.781</td></tr></tbody></table>other than his homers, everything else drops precipitously. 

This message was edited by sailor on 1-27-07 @ 5:52 PM

kellermcgee21

01-27-2007, 01:55 PM

sailor wrote: kellermcgee21 wrote: Wow I didn't hear anything about this but if the Sawx get Helton that would be huge. I've always thought helton deserved the chance to play for a contender after the loyalty he's shown the rockies over his career.  outside of coors, helton will be a big letdown.I don't know...he's won at least 3 gold gloves, he doesn't strike out very much, he walks alot and he's one of the best two strike hitters in the league.  None of that has anything to do with coors.  He also is more of a doubles hitter than home run hitter so the adjusment from coors to fenway shouldn't affect him as much.  The biggest factor for the sox has to be his health and what kind of prospects they're trading. and sailor if those are last years stats that was his worst year of his career when i believe he was playing hurt

This message was edited by kellermcgee21 on 1-27-07 @ 5:58 PM

sailor

01-27-2007, 02:01 PM

kellermcgee21 wrote: sailor wrote: kellermcgee21 wrote: Wow I didn't hear anything about this but if the Sawx get Helton that would be huge. I've always thought helton deserved the chance to play for a contender after the loyalty he's shown the rockies over his career. outside of coors, helton will be a big letdown.I don't know...he's won at least 3 gold gloves, he doesn't strike out very much, he walks alot and he's one of the best two strike hitters in the league. None of that has anything to do with coors. He also is more of a doubles hitter than home run hitter so the adjusment from coors to fenway shouldn't affect him as much. The biggest factor for the sox has to be his health and what kind of prospects they're trading. and sailor if those are last years stats that was his worst year of his career when i believe he was playing hurt This message was edited by kellermcgee21 on 1-27-07 @ 5:58 PM of course, they're last year, i can't be expected to do real research.  even if these numbers were low for him, there is still a huge drop between at coors and away.  was he only injured on the road?  i'm definitely a helton fan, but i think he'll not live up to expectations away from coors.

kellermcgee21

01-27-2007, 02:06 PM

you could be right though if they end up trading a lot for him and he plays like he did last year it would be a bad move for the sox.  i just think helton could be a very good player for them.  its really kind of a question mark till  the season starts.the difference between home and away is bigger than i expected in those stats.  the drop in avg. is pretty big.  i would still do it if i was boston and i didn't have to give up a crazy amount.  i'd like to see what helton can do on a good team with something to play for.

This message was edited by kellermcgee21 on 1-27-07 @ 6:12 PM

sailor

01-27-2007, 02:20 PM

also, keep in mind that helton is 32 and his numbers have gone down the past 4 years:AVG    RUNS    RBI       OPS 358    135       117     1088 347    115       96       1089 320    92         79        979 302    94         81        880

sailor

01-27-2007, 02:21 PM

kellermcgee21 wrote: you could be right though if they end up trading a lot for him and he plays like he did last year it would be a bad move for the sox. i just think helton could be a very good player for them. its really kind of a question mark till the season starts.the difference between home and away is bigger than i expected in those stats. the drop in avg. is pretty big. i would still do it if i was boston and i didn't have to give up a crazy amount. i'd like to see what helton can do on a good team with something to play for. This message was edited by kellermcgee21 on 1-27-07 @ 6:12 PM yes, i can see that.  plus, he's a classy guy and i'd like to see him on a good team, regardless.  if only it wasn't boston.  :)

BoondockSaint

01-27-2007, 02:29 PM

I think for the short term it will be a very good move for the Sox.  As a lefty he will have fun with the Pesky Pole.  But 6 years is a long time.  I'd love him if I was the Sox but I need to see what they have to give up first.

kellermcgee21

01-27-2007, 02:37 PM

Another factor is if the season starts and helton is playing good there will be more people interested in him.  The only name I've heard so far is craig hansen....i'm not a boston fan so I don't know how good he is but i've heard good things for him.

Bulldogcakes

01-28-2007, 05:39 AM

<a href="http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070127&content_id=1787926&vkey=h otstove2006&fext=.jsp">Rox confirm Helton talks with Red Sox</a>

Dan 'Hampton

01-28-2007, 05:50 AM

From all reports, the Rockies are the ones pushing this.  The Sox are just listening, and arn't going to do anything unless the Rockies swallow a substantial part of the 90 mil.

cougarjake13

01-28-2007, 06:20 AM

dschef wrote: From all reports, the Rockies are the ones pushing this.  The Sox are just listening, and arn't going to do anything unless the Rockies swallow a substantial part of the 90 mil. see thats one thing i dont understand about sportsyou wanna get rid of a guy so bad that you'll swallow a portion of the contract to get rid of him ??? i understand it more when the guys a cancer like terrell owens or how manny appears to be sometimes when he demands to be traded but as far a i know helton's been nothing but an upstanding player for the rockies and if they wind up paying him half the contract to just get rid of him and get some prospects i'd think you'd be better off just paying the guy the whole contract rather than half of it and possibly having the prospects never pan out

Dan 'Hampton

01-28-2007, 07:25 AM

Say the Rockies are willing to pay half (45 mil). And the Sox trade them prospects.  Then they have prospects and 45 mill off their books.  Instead of a guy in his mid to late 30's taking up 90 Mill.  As long as Ellsbury isn't involved in the trade i'm okay with seeing Craig Hanson going.

cougarjake13

01-28-2007, 07:31 AM

dschef wrote: Say the Rockies are willing to pay half (45 mil). And the Sox trade them prospects.  Then they have prospects and 45 mill off their books.  Instead of a guy in his mid to late 30's taking up 90 Mill.  As long as Ellsbury isn't involved in the trade i'm okay with seeing Craig Hanson going. the trade works great for the sawx, especially the more money that the rockies absorb to make the deal happenall im saying is he isnt a clubhouse cancer so its not a need to be made trade and if the rockies have to absorb half or more of the contract to make it happen i dont think its a good deal for the rockies and they should just keep helton, at least as long as the season starts and he hopefully shows that last year was a fluke

Bulldogcakes

01-28-2007, 08:25 AM

dschef wrote: Say the Rockies are willing to pay half (45 mil). And the Sox trade them prospects. Then they have prospects and 45 mill off their books. Instead of a guy in his mid to late 30's taking up 90 Mill. As long as Ellsbury isn't involved in the trade i'm okay with seeing Craig Hanson going.Thats crazy talk. 1/4 to a 1/3 is more likely. If you're going to pay half his salary, you might as well keep him. And as a Yankee fan who's just coming off trades for Abreau and Randy Johnson, I can tell you this. The more $$ they eat, the more in prospects you give up. Thats how it works. If you take his entire contract, you can have him for lower level and/or marginal prospects. If you want them to eat 1/4-1/3, expect to give up some blue chip guys. Maybe 2 or 3 of them.