View Full Version : MLB Franchise Players
TokeOne
08-01-2006, 10:39 PM
<p>Who is Mr. Dodger? </p><p>You have a few possibilities: Jackie Robinson, Sandy Koufax, Orel Hershisher, Fernando Valenzuela, Ron Cey, etc. </p><p>I think I gotta go Sandy Koufax. </p><p> </p><p>Teams like the Marlins will be tough because they were all hired guns, Devil Rays because they haven't established any stars, Blue Jays because there are a lot of good, solid players without a big standout, plus a lot of the Jays like Molitor, Carter, and Alomar were great on other teams as well.</p>
Fallon
08-01-2006, 10:42 PM
Ted Williams.<br />
TokeOne
08-01-2006, 10:50 PM
Can you make an argument for Yaz?
Earlshog
08-02-2006, 05:24 AM
<font face="Verdana"><p>Marlins - Jeff Conine I guess... but it will be Miggy and Willis. They have a very talented young team</p><p>Devil Rays - Aubrey Huff... really no idea... Maybe it will be Kaz??? Mets worst deal since Nolan Ryan?</p><p>Blue Jays - Dave Stieb, Ernie Whitt??? I go with Rance Mulliniks but thats just me... </p></font>
<p>I think Yaz should be the Red Sox franchise player. He was probably a much more loved player. Williams had a not so great reputation, and didn't have the greatest relationship with the fans.</p><p>I see the same parallel with Joe D. and Mickey. Joe D. is the more revered player, but Mickey is/was much more popular. </p><p>There aren't as many easy calls as you might think though. I see these as the easiest calls.</p><p>Giants: Willie Mays</p><p>Twins: Kirby Puckett</p><p>Cubs: Ernie Banks</p><p>Royals: George Brett</p><p>Brewers: Robin Yount</p><p>Cardinals: Stan Musial</p><p>Padres: Tony Gwynn</p><p>Rockies: Todd Helton</p><p>There are a TON of tough calls though. This is actually much harder than I thought...</p>
razorboy
08-02-2006, 06:08 AM
<p>Marlins- Miguel Cabrera, Dontrelle Willis</p><p>Devil Rays- Carl Crawford, Scott Kazmir</p>
<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by razorboy on 8-2-06 @ 10:10 AM</span>
Fallon
08-02-2006, 07:57 AM
<font size="4"><span class="postbody">
Ted Williams.</span></font>
absinthe
08-02-2006, 08:31 AM
<p>Easy call</p><p> </p><p>Tigers- Ty Cobb</p><p> </p><p> As for Mr. Dodger, I would also go with Koufax, but Robinson will probably get the nod<br /></p>
JimBeam
08-02-2006, 08:46 AM
<p>Blue Jays you could go with Tom Henke, Dave Steib, Lloyd Moseby, George Bell, or Jesse Barfield.</p><p>Tjose guys were all there when they were good throug hthe late 80s and some into the early 90s.</p>
<strong>JimBeam</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Blue Jays you could go with Tom Henke, Dave Steib, Lloyd Moseby, George Bell, or Jesse Barfield.</p><p>Tjose guys were all there when they were good throug hthe late 80s and some into the early 90s.</p><p>George Bell is a decent choice, but I was leaning towards Tony Fernandez.</p><p>What about the Mariners? I was thinking Ken Griffey Jr., but I also think Edgar Martinez could get a lot of support. Of course, there's always Alvin Davis.</p><p>I tend to think this vote will lean more towards players that spent most/all of the careers with said team. My criteria for this assumption? Absolutely Nothing. Part of the reason I picked Mantle over Ruth, and Musial over Ozzie. </p>
JimBeam
08-02-2006, 09:01 AM
I think Bell had the best numbers but I might go with Henke as I think he had the longest tenure or Moseby who also was there longer than the others.
Freakshow
08-02-2006, 09:04 AM
I'm going to say David Ortiz for Boston
Brooks Robinson for the Orioles.
Doogie
08-02-2006, 10:05 AM
Who is Mr. Dodger? <p> </p><p>Now which Dodgers are you doing?? Because you have to break it up into the Brooklyn Era and the Los Angeles Era. In the Brooklyn Era your choices could be: Jackie Robinson, Roy Campanella, Duke Snider, Gil Hodges, Pee Wee Reese.</p><p>Los Angeles Era: Don Drysdale, Sandy Koufax (achieved greater success in LA than in Brooklyn), Fernando, Steve Garvey, Orel Hershiser, Steve Sax.</p><p>That MLB voting thing annoyed me cause they said LA Dodgers but named all players who achieved fame playing for Brooklyn. Jackie Robinson chose to retire rather than follow the team to LA. </p><p>Other players I select by team. Teams with multiple names is who it comes down to for me</p><p>Sox: Ted Williams</p><p>White Sox: Joe Jackson</p><p>Chicago Cubs: Ernie Banks</p><p>Philly: Schmidt, Grover Cleveland Alexander</p><p>Pirates: Roberto Clemente</p><p>Marlins: Dontrelle (Especially if he stays there)</p><p>Nationals/Expos: Gary Carter, Rusty Staub</p><p>Braves: Hank Aaron</p><p>Mets: Seaver</p><p>Yankees: Ruth, DiMaggio</p><p>Jays: Jimmy Key, George Bell, Jesse Barfield, Pat Hentgen</p><p>Rays: Kazmir (And I curse the Mets everyday for this trade. This is my version of Nolan Ryan)</p><p>Orioles: Frank Robinson, Cal Ripken, Brooks Robinson, Jim Palmer</p><p>Tigers: Jack Morris, Ty Cobb, Denny McClain, Hank Greenburg</p><p>Twins: Kirby</p><p>Indians: Bob Feller</p><p>Royals: George Brett</p><p>A's (Oakland Era): Reggie. (Philly Era): Jimmy Foxx, Eddie Collins, Lefty Grove</p><p>Angels: Nolan Ryan, Vladimir Guererro</p><p>Rangers: Ryan</p><p>Mariners: Mark Langston, Griffey Jr. Edgar Martinez, A-Rod, Ichiro</p><p>Cardinals: Stan Musial</p><p>Reds: Pete Rose</p><p>Brewers: Paul Molitor</p><p>Astros: Ryan, Buddy Bell, Biggio, Bagwell</p><p>Padres: Gwynn</p><p>D-Backs: </p><p>Rockies: Larry Walker</p><p>Giants (NY Era): Mel Ott, Bill Terry, Christy Matthewson, Willie Mays. (SF Era): Will Clark, Bonds, Mays</p>
<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Doogie76 on 8-2-06 @ 2:06 PM</span>
<strong>Freakshow</strong> wrote:<br />I'm going to say David Ortiz for Boston Brooks Robinson for the Orioles. <p>I love Papi (no homo) but he was no Ted Williams -- or Yaz for that matter.</p><p> </p><p> </p><strong>Doogie76</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><p>Yankees: Ruth, DiMaggio</p><p>Reds: Pete Rose</p><p>Brewers: Paul Molitor</p><p> </p><p>I would go with Lou Gehrig for the Yanks, Johnny Bench for the Reds and Robin Yount for the Brewers not jus tbecause of talent but because they spent their entire careers with the same team (DiMaggio excepted of course).</p>
<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by A.J. on 8-2-06 @ 2:36 PM</span>
El Mudo
08-02-2006, 01:02 PM
Nationals/Expos: Gary Carter, Rusty Staub
I say Andre Dawson
10 years from now, the answer to this will be Alfonso Soriano
As for the Blue Jays, doesn't anyone remember Joe Carter?
El Mudo
08-02-2006, 01:04 PM
And for the Twins/Rangers, do you count old Washington Senators, or are they a separate thing?
As far as my vote for the old Senators, I say Frank Howard
EDIT: Jeez...where is my mind today? Forget Frank Howard, I forgot we had the greatest pitcher of all time, Walter Johnson
http://www.onlinesports.com/images/phf-aafx037.jpg
<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by El Mudo on 8-2-06 @ 5:07 PM</span>
mikeyboy
08-02-2006, 01:05 PM
<strong>Freakshow</strong> wrote:<br />Brooks Robinson for the Orioles. <p>Brooks Robinson is probably my all-time favorite player, but I'd have to say that he's passed that title on to Ripken.</p>
Doogie
08-03-2006, 06:55 AM
<p>I would go with Lou Gehrig for the Yanks, Johnny Bench for the Reds and Robin Yount for the Brewers </p><p>Ok, as East Side Dave said about this subject, it is the 'House that Ruth Built.' And EVERYONE knows him as a Yankee. More hardcore baseball people will remember his Red Sox days, and even more hard core people will talk about his final days with the Pirates, which is of course unmemorable. But Ruth is truly the franchise player of franchise player of the Yankees. DiMaggio comes in 2nd, Mantle in 3rd. I would even argue Whitey Ford over Gherig. </p><p>Johnny Bench to me is a great second to Charlie Hustle. Yet inspite of all that Rose has done to tarnish his image with what he has done, he still is <strong>the</strong> Cincinnati Red franchise player that comes to mind for many. </p><p>And finally Robin Yount is another great Franchise player for the Brewers, and a great player and one two combo offensively for the Brewers all those years. Yet when I think of great Brewers I automatically think of Molitor. What amazed me is someone here asked me who Molitor was when I was talking about him.</p><p> </p><p>Ok as for the Nationals/Expos...that is the mainly the Expos and Gary Carter was the superstar on that team, although Dawson probably had better numbers and shame on me for forgetting him. But Walter Johnson <strong>DOESNT</strong> count for that team but rather the Senators, the former DC team till 1967. I have to agree though that if we are including teams by Eras, Johnsons name is probably the only name that stands out for that team.</p><p>For the Rangers I cant believe I forgot Pudge Rodriquez, and Juan Gonzalez for that team. The Rangers are a relatively young team and those two guys have been great for that franchise. </p>
<strong>Doogie76</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p>I would go with Lou Gehrig for the Yanks, Johnny Bench for the Reds and Robin Yount for the Brewers <p> </p><p>Ok, as East Side Dave said about this subject, it is the 'House that Ruth Built.' And EVERYONE knows him as a Yankee. More hardcore baseball people will remember his Red Sox days, and even more hard core people will talk about his final days with the Pirates, which is of course unmemorable. But Ruth is truly the franchise player of franchise player of the Yankees. DiMaggio comes in 2nd, Mantle in 3rd. I would even argue Whitey Ford over Gherig. </p><p> </p><p>I would make the argument that Fenway could also be considered the "House That Ruth Built". Consider: Fenway was built in 1912. As a Red Sox player from 1914-1919, Ruth won 3 World Series Championships in 6 seasons. Yankee Stadium was built in 1923. As a Yankee from 1920-1935, he won 4 World Series Championships in 15 years. I'm not slighting the claim, just offering a different optic.</p><p>Actually, Ruth's final days were with the Boston Braves in 1935, not the Pirates.</p><p>And if he were still alive, my grandfather would flip out if he ever heard you say the Chairman of the Board Whitey Ford was better than The Pride of the Yankees!</p>
EliSnow
08-03-2006, 07:27 AM
<strong>Doogie76</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Now which Dodgers are you doing?? Because you have to break it up into the Brooklyn Era and the Los Angeles Era. In the Brooklyn Era your choices could be: Jackie Robinson, Roy Campanella, Duke Snider, Gil Hodges, Pee Wee Reese.</p><p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">By that rationale, we need two answers for the Twins: one for when the franchise was the Washington Senators (Killebrew) and one for when it was the Twins (Kirby, but Carew was Mr. Twin when I was growing up).</font></p><p><font face="Arial" size="3">Edit: Looks like others had the same thought, and maybe Killebrew isn't Mr. Senator.</font></p>
<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by EliSnow on 8-3-06 @ 11:40 AM</span>
<p>I haven't been able to find how they are going break down teams that have switched cities. Does anyone know? It would make the selection process a little easier. </p>
newport king
08-03-2006, 08:04 AM
<p>im bored and maybe this will start a debate.</p><p><strong>NL EAST</strong></p><p>Braves - Hank Aaron</p><p>Marlins - vacant. D-train and Cabrera will be it if they stay.</p><p>Phillies - Mike Schmidt</p><p>Mets - Tom Seaver</p><p>Nationals/Expos - Gary Carter??</p><p><strong>NL CENTRAL</strong></p><p>Cubs - Ernie Banks</p><p>Reds - Pete Rose</p><p>Astros - Nolan Ryan??</p><p>Brewers - Robin Yount</p><p>Pirates - Roberto Clemente</p><p>Cardinals - Stan Musial</p><p><strong>NL WEST</strong></p><p>Diamondbacks - the schilling/unit combo for now</p><p>Rockies - Todd Helton or Dante Bichette</p><p>Dodgers - Jackie Robinson</p><p>Padres - Tony Gwynn</p><p>Giants - Willie Mays</p><p><strong>AL EAST</strong></p><p>Orioles - Cal Ripken JR.</p><p>Red Sox - Ted Williams</p><p>Yankees - Babe Ruth</p><p>Devil Rays - Scott Kazmir when he's done.</p><p>Blue Jays - Joe Carter? Roy Hallady when he's done.</p><p><strong>AL CENTRAL</strong></p><p>White Sox - Minnie Minoso or Fank Thomas</p><p>Indians - Bob Feller</p><p>Royals - George Brett</p><p>Tigers - Ty Cobb</p><p>Twins - Kirby Puckett</p><p><strong>AL WEST</strong></p><p>Angels - Rod Carew</p><p>Athletics - Dennis Eckersley or Reggie Jackson</p><p>Mariners - providing he doesnt og to another team Ichiro</p><p>Rangers - Nolan Ryan again??</p>
Doogie
08-03-2006, 08:17 AM
<p>I would make the argument that Fenway could also be considered the "House That Ruth Built". Consider: Fenway was built in 1912. As a Red Sox player from 1914-1919, Ruth won 3 World Series Championships in 6 seasons. Yankee Stadium was built in 1923. As a Yankee from 1920-1935, he won 4 World Series Championships in 15 years. I'm not slighting the claim, just offering a different optic.</p><p>Actually, Ruth's final days were with the Boston Braves in 1935, not the Pirates.</p><p>And if he were still alive, my grandfather would flip out if he ever heard you say the Chairman of the Board Whitey Ford was better than The Pride of the Yankees!</p><p>Damn my typo...I was thinking Ruth hit his last ever home run for the Braves AGAINST the Pirates. Yet if you look at the history of baseball, Boston always had rabid fans going all the way back to the Boston Americans (Pre Red Sox name). The royal rooters were fans who often paraded around the field before games. The stadium was opened a week before the Titanic sank and a whole two years before Ruth was signed by the Red Sox (Ironically Ruth played for the minor league Baltimore Orioles). So Fenway was really the stadium that rabid fans built. An architectural masterpiece of the Progressive Era!!</p><p>Ok, yes Ruth didnt go to the Yanks till 1919, but the fan attention he brought to the Polo Grounds enraged John McGraw, manager of the landlord New York Giants. The ticket sales benefited both the Yankees and the Giants and satisfied Col Rupert enough to build Yankee Stadium. So in reality, Ruth was the franchise player that built the Yankees into the power house that they are. Their power in the 1920's and 1930's were rivaled only by the St. Louis Cardinals. But due to Ruth's drawing power the Yankees were able to draw disposable income to spend on scouts to find great talent to build the team around Ruth. Lou Gherhig, Earle Combs, Lefty Gomez, and so forth. The franchise benefited tremendously from the addition of Ruth, and to a lesser extent his sale was beneficial to Harrison Frazee. "No No Nanette" was a success due to the money that Frazee received from the Yankees for the sale of Ruth. </p><p>My argument of course is to show evidence of how Ruth was the franchise player. I also hate to say this, but charisma can be a benefit to being a franchise player, and Ruth had plenty of it. DiMaggio had a differnt kind of charisma, he had a kind of a quiet charisma, and helped carry the franchise after the downfall of Ruth and Gherhig. Mantle was the Super-superstar that never was. He had great natural ability, but since almost all the men in his family died at the age of 40 of some form of cancer, mainly Hodkins. So the guy partied his ass off. And it was a shame. He had speed greater than DiMaggio, or even Cobb. And power unlike Ruth. But the guy squandered his talents. When Casey Stengel retired he named an All-Time team, that featured Jackie Robinson, Yogi Berra and Joe DiMaggio, but no mention of Mantle.</p><p>Now as for my mention of Whitey Ford, he was 4th on my list. I would never. NEVER. Never rank him above, Joe DiMaggio. My point was that Whitey was more of a franchise player than Gherhig. That was what I was arguing. </p>
Doogie
08-03-2006, 08:24 AM
<p>The only problem I have with that Newport King is that Jackie never played a day for Los Angeles. And I mention this cause MLB has Robinson listed under the LA Dodgers. Now for Brooklyn, absolutely Robinson gets my vote with Campenella a hot second. The impact that Robinson had on the Dodgers and baseball is barely matched in the last 60 years. He took the Negro League style of baseball, which was the old form of baseball pre-live ball era, and brought back the art of the 'short game.'</p><p>I am just annoyed that for the LA Dodgers there is no mention of Valenzuela or Garvey or Maurey Wills or Hersheiser. My point is that they do need to divide the team into era's. </p>
newport king
08-03-2006, 09:18 AM
noticed i put "dodgers" not "la dodgers" he was part of that franchise, just b/c the team picks up and moves doesnt mean its a dif franchise.
JimBeam
08-03-2006, 09:27 AM
<p>I love Joe Carter but there's no way he's the franchise player for the Jays.</p><p>He had better years in Cleveland.</p><p>Just because he won his titles on the Jays doesnt make him their franchise player.</p><p>Although I'm sure he gets Mitch Williams' vote.</p>
newport king
08-03-2006, 09:30 AM
thats the only reason i put him there....i dont think the jays have 1.
El Mudo
08-03-2006, 11:25 AM
Edit: Looks like others had the same thought, and maybe Killebrew isn't Mr. Senator.
Walter Johnson is the first Mr. Senator
That team moved to Minny, and the second one moved to Texas
The Second Mr. Senator is probably Frank Howard, the team was only here like 2-3 years before it was moved to Texas
I never meant to call Walter Johnson "Mr. National/Expo" I pointed out Andre Dawson for that one
cougarjake13
08-03-2006, 02:15 PM
<p>for the d backs i would think luis gonzalez would be the guy</p><p><strong><font size="3">nl east al east</font></strong></p><p>mets seaver yankees ruth</p><p>braves hank aaron red sox williams</p><p>nats/expos tim wallach, andre dawson orioles ripken jr</p><p>phillies mike schmidt blue jays delgado</p><p>marlins jeff conine (only guy on both marlin W.S. teams) d rays crawford/ kazmir</p><p><strong><font size="3">nl central al central</font></strong></p><p>cards musial twins carew</p><p>reds rose &n
FezPaul
08-03-2006, 02:54 PM
<p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Cougarjake13 is the only one who got this one right;</font></strong></p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Arizona Diamondbacks: Luis Gonzales.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Remember him?? Yankee fans??</font></strong></p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">MMwwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!</font></strong></p>
El Mudo
08-04-2006, 07:15 PM
Steve Finley as Mr. Angel?
I vote for:
http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/al/anaca/Mooreana.JPG
Doogie
08-05-2006, 01:29 AM
<strong>El Mudo</strong> wrote:<br />Steve Finley as Mr. Angel? I vote for: <img src="http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/al/anaca/Mooreana.JPG" border="0" /> <p> </p><p>Yeah, and he voted for Bud Dwyer</p>
cougarjake13
08-05-2006, 12:10 PM
<strong>El Mudo</strong> wrote:<br />Steve Finley as Mr. Angel? <p>the finley i meant was chuck finley</p>
<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by cougarjake13 on 8-5-06 @ 4:10 PM</span>
El Mudo
08-05-2006, 04:35 PM
My comment still stands....
Besides, Chuck Finley lost all my respect when Tawny Kitaen beat the hell out of him
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