Kirby Puckett 1960-2006 [Archive] - RonFez.net Messageboard

WRESTLINGFAN

03-05-2006, 01:38 PM

I knew he had to retire because of Glaucoma but at only 44 thats a young age <a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5383632">http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5383632</a>



This message was edited by Fallon on 3-7-06 @ 11:44 AM

torker

03-05-2006, 02:00 PM

I thought he retired because he lost his stroke.             <img height="160" src="http://images.art.com/images/-/Kirby-Puckett-1991-World-Series-Home-Run-Photograph-I10103720.jpeg" width="128" border="0" />

mendyweiss

03-05-2006, 02:49 PM

Sheeplovr

03-05-2006, 02:58 PM

I love that little Pink guy<img width="250" height="250" border="0" src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/Master_Link/WS/Kirby/Kirby_japan-website.jpg" />

Gvac

03-05-2006, 03:03 PM

Kirby was always a bit chunky, but he's really been packing on the pounds since his playing days. Yes, that's really him on the right. <img width="410" height="307" border="0" src="http://woolis.com/images/Fanfest2005/05fanfest001Puckett&Lantz.jpg" />

Sheeplovr

03-05-2006, 03:43 PM

Yes, that's really him on the right. wow dunk him in pinkpaint and rent him to kids parties

Rutger__Hauer

03-05-2006, 03:55 PM

<img height="307" src="http://woolis.com/images/Fanfest2005/05fanfest001Puckett&Lantz.jpg" width="410" border="0" />I smells me some cornbread.

FUNKMAN

03-05-2006, 04:09 PM

Kirby Puckett has a stroke will the union gap still go on tour? seriously: hope he makes a good recovery

Evilpete

03-05-2006, 04:10 PM

Kirby Puckett has a stroke... and Leon's getting laaaaarrrrger!!!1

Mr.Pants

03-05-2006, 04:52 PM

His physique sort of looks like Ariel Sharone's.

TheMojoPin

03-05-2006, 05:52 PM

Was he molesting women too hard?Pace yourself, you fat, blind scumbag.

Tenbatsuzen

03-05-2006, 06:14 PM

Mojo -How about this, why don't you try the phrase "not guilty" on for size, and then realize that women of ill repute across the world see athletes as a prime way to make money for themselves.I aint' saying she's a gold digger... Anyway, he was airlifted from a hospital in Scottsdale - which has no shortage of rich, older people having medical issues - to another hospital.  He's in bad shape, no doubt.

Earlshog

03-05-2006, 06:27 PM

Wow that pic is unreal… Celebrity fit club IV…  That’s terrible about the stroke,,, Hang in there Kirby… Good luck bro

A.J.

03-06-2006, 06:18 AM

Was he molesting women too hard?From the looks of that picture, I'd say he was more concerned about molesting all-you-can-eat buffets.

badorties

03-06-2006, 06:31 AM

WRESTLINGFAN wrote: I knew he had to retire because of Glaucoma but at only 44 thats a young age <a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5383632">http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5383632</a>was the glaucoma caused by the pitch he took to the face, or was it a coincedence ...?

EliSnow

03-06-2006, 06:41 AM

Growing up in Minnesota, I've been a huge Puckett fan all my life.   I hope that he recovers from this, and is able to shed some pounds, because that just ain't healthy.

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 07:16 AM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: Mojo -How about this, why don't you try the phrase "not guilty" on for size, and then realize that women of ill repute across the world see athletes as a prime way to make money for themselves.I aint' saying she's a gold digger... Anyway, he was airlifted from a hospital in Scottsdale - which has no shortage of rich, older people having medical issues - to another hospital.  He's in bad shape, no doubt. Fine.  Change it to, "cheating on your wife too hard, you fat, blind scumbag?"<a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/news/2003/03/11/si_puckett/" target="_blank">The guy sounds like a douchebag.  Great ball player, for sure, but that doesn't mean he's not a tool.  Oh, but NONE of it could possibly be true...it's just a conspiracy because he's famous, right?</a>

DarkHippie

03-06-2006, 07:36 AM

Fine.  Change it to, "cheating on your wife too hard, you fat, blind scumbag?"He's no Ty Cobb.

jess87

03-06-2006, 07:37 AM

AWWWWW  Shucks  my dad named his dog Kirby because of this guy. Sad day for my fam

Furtherman

03-06-2006, 07:37 AM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: Anyway, he was airlifted from a hospital in Scottsdale  <img height="271" src="http://collections.ic.gc.ca/peifisheries/photo/large/helicopter.jpg" width="380" border="0" />

Fallon

03-06-2006, 04:14 PM

He died.

Death Metal Moe

03-06-2006, 04:19 PM

You know I have no idea what happened to Kirby Puckett after he left baseball and at this point I don't care.  I have fond memories of seeing him on baseball cards when I was into collecting them in the 80's.  That's enough for me.  Sorry to see a man die so  young, that's it.  If he was a scumbag, it won't be the 1st or last public figure who didn't live up to the standards we set for people we've never met.

Hottub

03-06-2006, 04:19 PM

WTF!!!???I need a link. This is just fucking surreal!!!

Fallon

03-06-2006, 04:20 PM

From ESPN.com.

Puckett Dies Following Stroke
Hall of Famer Kirby Puckett died Monday, a day after suffering a stroke at his Arizona home, a hospital spokeswoman said. The 44-year-old Puckett, who led the Twins to two World Series titles before his career was cut short by glaucoma, was stricken Sunday morning at his Arizona home.

Hottub

03-06-2006, 04:22 PM

Damn. "Fat, Blind, Scumbag", or not, you gotta respect what he did on the diamond.Forty-Fucking- Four!!RIP Slugger!

torker

03-06-2006, 04:26 PM

This could have used a new thread.RIP, bigman.

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 04:30 PM

<a href="http://www.startribune.com/10017/story/287541.html" target="_blank">Link to the story.</a>Weird feelings over this.  As a kid and insanely rabid baseball fan in the 80's and 90's, Kirby Puckett was like a superhero.  The guy didn't even seem real with how well he played...he was someone you talked about as if he was just toally seperate from all the other players...he was just THAT good as a hitter.The stuff that came out about him after he retired really bugged the hell out of me, partly because of what I thought of him when I was younger, and mainly because I find that sort of behavior towards women absolutely inexcusable.  Yeah, I know guys like Tenbats think that the one time he was brought up on charges and cleared makes all the other times disappear, but a pattern like that doesn't come out of nowhere.  Nobody was getting any money off of him, and yet the charges and accusations still showed up.  Even some players who knew him hinted that he had a lot of troubles with women off the field when he was playing.  It infuriates me when I hear of anyone treating women like that, and even moreso when it was someone who I looked up to as a hero as kid.So, yeah, thanks for the great baseball memories, Kirby...I'll always treasure those.  But fuck you for not being a better human being.Weird feelings.

Bulldogcakes

03-06-2006, 04:34 PM

He must have had a strong genetic disposition toward stroke. Fat or not, 44 is way too young to get a stroke. I had a customer who was flat out the nicest guy I knew, who died of a stroke about a week before Christmas. 43 years old. And he was a normal weight for his age.

Gvac

03-06-2006, 04:35 PM

For the love of Christ, can someone please explain to me how to post a link with these damn tools?I thought they were supposed to simplify things.

FUNKMAN

03-06-2006, 04:39 PM

Gvac wrote: For the love of Christ, can someone please explain to me how to post a link with these damn tools?I thought they were supposed to simplify things. > type some text > drag your mouse over the text to highlight it> click on the silver 'connected' chain link on the tool bar> paste your link in the top field of the box> hit okay

Gvac

03-06-2006, 04:40 PM

<a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/news/2003/03/11/si_puckett/">Si's Case Against Kirby</a> 

This message was edited by Gvac on 3-6-06 @ 8:41 PM

Hottub

03-06-2006, 04:42 PM

Enable your PM, and I can give you the whole tutorial.In a nutshell, go to your sourse and copy the address. Come back here, type the headline, hightlight it.   Click on the litle icon of a chain(link) a window pops up. Paste your link, open in a separate window, and submit.Easy Peasy!

Gvac

03-06-2006, 04:43 PM

Thanks, Funk.I typed the above link the old fashioned way (a href=") and at first it didn't link. When I hit "edit" it did.I'll try your way next time. edit: and thanks to you too, Hottub. 

This message was edited by Gvac on 3-6-06 @ 8:44 PM

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 04:45 PM

Man, I was about to swoop in with a tutorial, but hell, it's covered!  Nicely done.

Bulldogcakes

03-06-2006, 04:46 PM

TheMojoPin wrote:  Yeah, I know guys like Tenbats think that the one time he was brought up on charges and cleared makes all the other times disappear, but a pattern like that doesn't come out of nowhere.  <blockquote />  Where the fuck did that come from? I'm sure Tenbats thought the same thing I, and most other people thought when they heard that. Maybe its true, or maybe she's a gold digger. Who knows. But when you see the pattern of behavior you posted (which I didn't know) its obvious what was really going on. I would even give him somewhat of a pass if it was a pinch here or there. But the shit with his wife was flat out criminal violence. Unfortunately, shit like that goes on more than we'd like to know with former atheletes who lose the cheering crowds and have to deal with life after sports. Many of them never did learn how to deal with life from an early age, since they had so much talent everything was handed to them. But I could give you a long list of ex-pro's who had trouble adjusting to life after sports.

Tenbatsuzen

03-06-2006, 04:49 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: <a target="_blank" href="http://www.startribune.com/10017/story/287541.html">Link to the story.</a>Weird feelings over this. As a kid and insanely rabid baseball fan in the 80's and 90's, Kirby Puckett was like a superhero. The guy didn't even seem real with how well he played...he was someone you talked about as if he was just toally seperate from all the other players...he was just THAT good as a hitter.The stuff that came out about him after he retired really bugged the hell out of me, partly because of what I thought of him when I was younger, and mainly because I find that sort of behavior towards women absolutely inexcusable. Yeah, I know guys like Tenbats think that the one time he was brought up on charges and cleared makes all the other times disappear, but a pattern like that doesn't come out of nowhere. Nobody was getting any money off of him, and yet the charges and accusations still showed up. Even some players who knew him hinted that he had a lot of troubles with women off the field when he was playing. It infuriates me when I hear of anyone treating women like that, and even moreso when it was someone who I looked up to as a hero as kid.So, yeah, thanks for the great baseball memories, Kirby...I'll always treasure those. But fuck you for not being a better human being.Weird feelings.   You know, Mojo, you get all high and haughty when I make snippy comments, well, the shoes on the other foot now.You made an obnoxious line when a man was on his deathbed.  Good job.  I'll look up to you when Strawberry dies from an OD.He degenerated into a sickly obese, divorced, and probably depressed man.

FUNKMAN

03-06-2006, 04:52 PM

I would even give him somewhat of a pass if it was a pinch here or there. But the shit with his wife was flat out criminal violence. Unfortunately, shit like that goes on more than we'd like to know with former atheletes who lose the cheering crowds and have to deal with life after sports. Many of them never did learn how to deal with life from an early age, since they had so much talent everything was handed to them. But I could give you a long list of ex-pro's who had trouble adjusting to life after sports.   that's why most if not all the time i do not hold these guys or gals in awe. they are as human as any other human on the planet and they put their pants on one leg at a time like everyone else...just like Bruce Dickinson...

Death Metal Moe

03-06-2006, 04:53 PM

Don't mind Mojo, he's just more bitchy than Moe.

Hottub

03-06-2006, 04:56 PM

Death Metal Moe wrote: Don't mind Mojo, he's just more bitchy than Moe. Mojo will be fine in a day or two. After he is done with the "visit from his friend".

Bulldogcakes

03-06-2006, 04:56 PM

One other thing. He and Don Mattingly have almost identical career stats. But it was always felt that he got into the H.O.F. because he was so BELOVED by the sportswriters (Mattingly was pretty popular too, but not like Puckett). So he was clearly a very complicated guy. Personally I dont either belong in, buts thats a discussion for another day.

Gvac

03-06-2006, 04:57 PM

It really sucks when our heroes let us down, and I can empathize with Mojo.Hell, I grew up idolizing Pete Rose.  One
thing you learn as you get older, however, is that we're all mere
mortals.  No matter how fascinating someone is to you or how much
esteem you hold them in, you realize they're only men just like the
rest of us, replete with foibles and shortcomings.

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 04:57 PM

Where the fuck did that come from?Tenbats has posted similar sentiments in other threads.  It's nothing new.You know, Mojo, you get all high and haughty when I make snippy comments, well, the shoes on the other foot now.What does that even mean?You made an obnoxious line when a man was on his deathbed.  Good job.  I'll look up to you when Strawberry dies from an OD.And...?Both were happily idolized by millions, probably most of them children like myself, and both happily lived like animals and wallowed in behaviors and lifestyles off the field that made a mockery of who they supposedly were, and betrayed their fans by doing it over and over and over and over and OVER again.He degenerated into a sickly obese, divorced, and probably depressed man.So now I'm supposed to have sympathy for him?  He betrayed me and every other baseball fan that looked to him as a paragon of what a baseball player should be by abusing and assaulting who knows how many women.  Guys like that are lower than low in my book, and for it to have been someone I saw as MORE than a man as kid, it was even more devastating.  Men don't behave like that.  And death doesn't erase that.  Like I said, I respect the achievments he had on the field, but I hate him for what he took away from all of us.

Bulldogcakes

03-06-2006, 04:59 PM

FUNKMAN wrote:just like Bruce Dickinson... From Iron Maiden? What happened with him? <blockquote />

FUNKMAN

03-06-2006, 05:00 PM

Gvac wrote: It really sucks when our heroes let us down, and I can empathize with Mojo.Hell, I grew up idolizing Pete Rose.  One thing you learn as you get older, however, is that we're all mere mortals.  No matter how fascinating someone is to you or how much esteem you hold them in, you realize they're only men just like the rest of us, replete with foibles and shortcomings.  Well Said!

Tenbatsuzen

03-06-2006, 05:01 PM

Criminal behavior?!?In March 2002, Anne Potter filed an order for protection against
Tonya Puckett, alleging that Tonya had threatened to kill her over an
alleged affair with Kirby. So he cheated on his wife.... and when you have a wife that threatens to kill someone, that kind of mental stability just SCREAMS a relationship you stay faithful in. That month, a St. Louis Park woman
asked for protection against Kirby Puckett, saying in court documents
that she had had an 18-year relationship with him and that he had
shoved her inside his Bloomington condominium.So... that month - after his wife shows signs of instability - a woman comes out of nowhere and claims that she had an affair.Did that go anywhere?  Article doesn't seem to say.  My guess?  No. Then, in September
2002, Puckett was involved with a woman in a very public incident at
Redstone American Grill in Eden Prairie. That time, the woman accused
Puckett of dragging her into a restaurant restroom and grabbing her
breast. Aaaaand the verdict there?  Not guilty. The man is DEAD.  Respect what he did, but remember above all else - he was a flawed individual, just like everyone else.

Death Metal Moe

03-06-2006, 05:01 PM

No morequote fights, PLEASE!!!

Death Metal Moe

03-06-2006, 05:03 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  FUNKMAN wrote: just like Bruce Dickinson...From Iron Maiden? What happened with him? Oh you silly goose.

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 05:05 PM

Gvac wrote: It really sucks when our heroes let us down, and I can empathize with Mojo.Hell, I grew up idolizing Pete Rose.  One thing you learn as you get older, however, is that we're all mere mortals.  No matter how fascinating someone is to you or how much esteem you hold them in, you realize they're only men just like the rest of us, replete with foibles and shortcomings.  Yeah, I know, and it's probably just bad timing as to when I was born...Kirby was just one of MY players.  He was there when I really first got into baseball, and in a weird way it made me proud to be alive when he was playing.  There have only been a few players that made me feel that way, and he was definitely one of them.I think SI used Rose as a comparison in this case...Rose was a stunningly good player, but everyone knew about his wild side.  It was part of his charm...he was the balls-out man's man that lived hard and played hard.  Puckett as a player was always put up there as a paragon of character and quality and goodness and whatever hell else he was supposed to be.  He was the "hero" player...the good guy that could do no wrong and perform miracles on the field.  It's stupid, but it's almost like finding out there's no Santa Clause.  By the time Kirby's ugly history came out, I was well old enough to know about the shit pro atheletes pull when they're not playing, but Kirby being one of "them" was, for me, the straw that just kinda broke the camel's back.  I've always been less of a baseball fan since then...it's all lame and corny, but it really was like finding out that some of the guys you thought were the good ones and above it all weren't....they were just men.  Stupid, lying, betraying, fallable men.  For me, nobody was untouchable after Kirby Puckett fell.  That last little bit of "magic" that you hold up with baseball when you're a kid and loving it just finally whithered and died.  And that sucks.

torker

03-06-2006, 05:06 PM

torker wrote: This could have used a new thread.RIP, bigman.Shut-up and piss on his grave.

FUNKMAN

03-06-2006, 05:06 PM

Death Metal Moe wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote:  FUNKMAN wrote: just like Bruce Dickinson...From Iron Maiden? What happened with him? Oh you silly goose.what do ya think Moe, a little more cowbell?

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 05:09 PM

Tenbats, just FYI, the link both Gvac and I posted is only part of the entire article.  The allegations and stories about Puckett go well beyond those two incidents/claims.  Like I said, nobody got any money from him, but the stories kept showing up in the last few years.  If there was no truth to them, and nothing was to be gained, why did they keep coming up?  I'm sorry, but a man who habitually treats women this way is something I cannot tolerate.  I've already gone into detail as to why this particular man brings up these feelings even moreso in me, so that's that.  Like I said, I respect his game, but I don't respect the man, nor do I need to now just because he's dead.  Everyone can have their own take on the death of a public figure.

Tenbatsuzen

03-06-2006, 05:09 PM

And Mojo, I'm a Yankee fan.  You want to talk about hope and betrayal?  Two words, Daryl Strawberry.

Marc with a c

03-06-2006, 05:12 PM

so kirby kicked the puckett.

mikeyboy

03-06-2006, 05:13 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: Like I said, I respect his game, but I don't respect the man, nor do I need to now just because he's dead.  Everyone can have their own take on the death of a public figure. Of course you don't have to, but this might not be the time and place for it.  The man's dead, and there are people who really respected him mourning his death.  He's divisive because of the things that cropped up after his retirement, and rightfully so.  As we did with Reagan, it's probably appropriate to keep that out of this particular thread so soon after his death.

Death Metal Moe

03-06-2006, 05:13 PM

Mojo + Puckett = Moe + Don & Mike

Death Metal Moe

03-06-2006, 05:14 PM

mikeyboy wrote: TheMojoPin wrote: Like I said, I respect his game, but I don't respect the man, nor do I need to now just because he's dead.  Everyone can have their own take on the death of a public figure. Of course you don't have to, but this might not be the time and place for it.  The man's dead, and there are people who really respected him mourning his death.  He's divisive because of the things that cropped up after his retirement, and rightfully so.  As we did with Reagan, it's probably appropriate to keep that out of this particular thread so soon after his death.Even I knew to keep my Don and Mike hate out of Freda's death thread.

Death Metal Moe

03-06-2006, 05:15 PM

evedder wrote: so kirby kicked the puckett. ::rimshot::<img height="154" src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~mannylee/pictures/rimshot.jpg" width="219" border="0" />

Gvac

03-06-2006, 05:15 PM

I don't think the "magic" of baseball ever dies, Mojo. Maybe
our child-like worship and awe of the men involved does, but once you're
hooked on the game the fascination is always there. And I
think with the passage of time our judgement of those men isn't as
severe, either. I used to say that if I ever met Pete Rose in
person I'd tell him how he destroyed my belief in heroes. At this
stage of my life, though, if I ever met "Charlie Hustle" I'd give him a
hug and tell him how I used to slide down the hallways of my school
head first and run to first base when I drew a walk in Little League.


This message was edited by Gvac on 3-6-06 @ 9:16 PM

FUNKMAN

03-06-2006, 05:16 PM

can i start bashing Patrice now? sorry

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 05:16 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: And Mojo, I'm a Yankee fan.  You want to talk about hope and betrayal?  Two words, Daryl Strawberry. I totally understand...Mets fans, too.  Hell, ANY baseball fan from his day.  Strawberry is right up there as one of "those players" when I was younger that I just thought were greater than great.  Of course, the memorable named helped, too...same with Kirby.  Daryl dud have, like Rose, a reputation for being a "fun" guy, to put it politely.  He and the Mets had that rep when they were winning, so it wasn't toally out of leftfield like it was with Kirby.  Seriously, finding out what Kirby supposedly did for years and years to women would be like finding out that Ernie Banks was a murderer.  Kirby was up there, man!  You couldn't get any better than him in terms of character and charity!  Fuck, what a let down...

Hottub

03-06-2006, 05:21 PM

<hr color="cococo" align="left">TheMojoPin wrote: Tenbats, just FYI, the link both Gvac and I posted is only part of the entire article.ÿ The allegations and stories about Puckett go well beyond those two incidents/claims.ÿ Like I said, nobody got any money from him, but the stories kept showing up in the last few years.ÿ If there was no truth to them, and nothing was to be gained, why did they keep coming up?ÿ I'm sorry, but a man who habitually treats women this way is something I cannot tolerate.ÿ I've already gone into detail as to why this particular man brings up these feelings even moreso in me, so that's that.ÿ Like I said, I respect his game, but I don't respect the man, nor do I need to now just because he's dead.ÿ Everyone can have their own take on the death of a public figure.<hr color="cococo" align="left">

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 05:21 PM

mikeyboy wrote: TheMojoPin wrote: Like I said, I respect his game, but I don't respect the man, nor do I need to now just because he's dead.  Everyone can have their own take on the death of a public figure. Of course you don't have to, but this might not be the time and place for it.  The man's dead, and there are people who really respected him mourning his death.  He's divisive because of the things that cropped up after his retirement, and rightfully so.  As we did with Reagan, it's probably appropriate to keep that out of this particular thread so soon after his death.Well, I have to respectfully disagree, since I'm not out and out bashing him for no good reason, or some petty one.  I fully admit my very first comment was pretty tasetless, but I didn't know he was gonna die at the time, and well, it just came out.  Yeah, I'm being harsh, but this does raise some serious conflicting emotions in me.  It's not like I just hate the guy...I loved him like crazy and practically worshipped him as a hero for years.  His death is just bringing to the forefront those peaks and valleys.  So, yeah, I apologize if it was ridicuously offensive to anyone, but I have said several times I respect and admire what he did on the field.  I just can't stand who he was OFF the field.  When someone dies, you remember them, especially if they were an important figure in your life...and for me, 15+ years ago, he was.

Hottub

03-06-2006, 05:24 PM

FUCK!!! I just typed my heart out, and it is fucking gone!!!I gotta try and find it!!!!!I hate when REPLY Fucks me!!!

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 05:29 PM

Gvac wrote: I don't think the "magic" of baseball ever dies, Mojo. Maybe our child-like worship and awe of the men involved does, but once you're hooked on the game the fascination is always there. And I think with the passage of time our judgement of those men isn't as severe, either. I used to say that if I ever met Pete Rose in person I'd tell him how he destroyed my belief in heroes. At this stage of my life, though, if I ever met "Charlie Hustle" I'd give him a hug and tell him how I used to slide down the hallways of my school head first and run to first base when I drew a walk in Little League. This message was edited by Gvac on 3-6-06 @ 9:16 PM It's true, the game itself is never gonna fade for me...I just wish some of the supermen didn't ened up seeming so very mortal.The second part is interesting...I'm not comparing him to Rose, but I've already started to look at Sammy Sosa the same way.  When it came out he wasn't being signed by the Nats and was pretty much gonna have to retire, all the anger and resentment I had been feeling for the last 2 years started to fade.  The corked bat, the ego, the steroid shadow, the ugly departure the last game of the 2006 season...but then I mounted it up to the sheer joy he provided for almost a decade as a Cub, not just to Cubs fans but baseball fans...you could argue he helped save baseball after the strike.  All of a sudden, he wasn't the bad guy anymore...he was just the player that had made the game so fun and exciting to watch for so many years.Kirby's case is different front both, since Rose and Sosa's "crimes" had to do with the game itself...for better or for worse, it influenced who they were as players.  Kirby's "other life" essentially made what we saw of him kind of a lie.  Yeah, the hitting power was still there, but the persona of who he was a "good guy" was totally wrong.  Someone already brought up Ty Cobb...picture if all the ugly shit about him had been a secret, and he had been presented as if he were a saint.  Then, once the myth had been built up, all of the ugliness comes pouring out.  That would have been devastating.  It's strange, but I almost wish we had known while he was playing.  It hurt more that he had left and gotten into the Hall and the myth had been craved into stone.

Bulldogcakes

03-06-2006, 05:30 PM

Everything you wrote may be true, Mojo. The timing's just a little rough. Let the family bury the guy before everyone starts dumping shit on his grave. However well deserved. Its not like he's a war criminal. I'll never forget the way that little runt Lupica blasted Billy Martin on the front page of the NY Post ON THE VERY DAY his family and the Yankees were having funeral services at St Pats in the city. How would you like to be someone close to him who picks up the paper that day and sees that?  Still haven't forgiven that worthless little midget fuck for that one.

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 05:34 PM

Alright, fair enough.  I wouldn't post this if I had a forum like a national newspaper...I was just trying to express the strong feelings this brings up.  In a way, I AM grieving.  It's sappy as fuck, but hey, a big part of my childhood did just die, and it's sad.  And to me, a lot of other things important to me died with him or because of him.  The name "Kirby Puckett" brings up everything from joy to rage in me.  It's very strong and raw, and his death just amplifies that.

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 05:49 PM

And since I've been the one drgging this thread down, I feel I should point out that the man as a baseball player is almost untouchable...check out these career numbers... .318 AVG .360 OBP% .477 SLG .837 OPS  Just scanning his stats, he never once struck out more than 100 times in any of his 11 years as an MLB player.  Astounding.I remember being in little league and wishing and praying that I could hit like him or Tony Gwynn.  Goddammit.

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-6-06 @ 9:50 PM

Marc with a c

03-06-2006, 05:53 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: I remember being in little league and wishing and praying that I could hit like him or Tony Gwynn.  Goddammit.sorry it says "hit" not "be"

This message was edited by evedder on 3-6-06 @ 9:54 PM

mendyweiss

03-06-2006, 05:59 PM

How come whenever a famous black man dies, They always say" What we will miss most about him is his smile" a little racist no?

Death Metal Moe

03-06-2006, 06:09 PM

mendyweiss wrote: How come whenever a famous black man dies, They always say" What we will miss most about him is his smile" a little racist no? Problem is they all die at night.

CYYYFYYY

03-06-2006, 06:34 PM

<div>I hate when a famous person does something wrong people always say they are flawed just like all humans.  I am sorry I have never sexually assaulted a female.  Heck I have never cheated on a female.  When they do something wrong it is wrong and saying there are other scummy people out there... does not make it right.  Besides thes guys are millionares they can get all type of women and yet they still have to do crap like this.  Disgusting</div>

Earlshog

03-06-2006, 07:04 PM

In fairness to Kirby it should be pointed out that he was acquitted of the sexual assault charges.   While cheating on his wife was wrong we don’t know the circumstances of his relationship.  The man died too young. I don’t think its too much to ask people to curb the hateful comments (most of which stem from unproven allegations) for a few days, and show a little compassion and respect.

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 07:17 PM

In fairness to Kirby it should be pointed out that he was acquitted of the sexual assault charges.  Yes, THAT charge.  That's far, FAR from the only one (not that they're all assault charges).  I'm assuming that the "hateful comments" are directed at me, but I really don't think I have made any besides the very first post of mine here, which was posted before he died.  I'm just explaining my perspective as to why his death (and life) DOES mean something to me.

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-6-06 @ 11:19 PM

Tenbatsuzen

03-06-2006, 07:30 PM

CYYYFYYY wrote: I hate when a famous person does something wrong people always say they are flawed just like all humans. I am sorry I have never sexually assaulted a female. Heck I have never cheated on a female. When they do something wrong it is wrong and saying there are other scummy people out there... does not make it right. Besides thes guys are millionares they can get all type of women and yet they still have to do crap like this. Disgusting   Do me a favor?  Go up to High and Mighty Mountain and go fuck yourself.

FUNKMAN

03-06-2006, 07:34 PM

he's mighty mighty, letting it all hang out...come on guys, isn't there enough hate and anger in the worldpeace out!

Tenbatsuzen

03-06-2006, 07:35 PM

You know why?  Mojo's posts upset me, but at least he had a base to come from.  Cyyyfyyy, you are absolutely repugnant.  You should be ashamed of yourself.  I'm glad you're so perfect.  The man is DEAD.  He has left two kids - kids, who, BTW, had an absentee father because he was a baseball player - behind.HE HASN'T EVEN BEEN DEAD FOR 24 HOURS YET.I'm listening to Steve Sommers right now and ready to throw my radio out the window.

TheGameHHH

03-06-2006, 07:55 PM

Do I wish he could have been a better "human being"? sure. But what I know of Kirby was the man I saw play in between the lines on a baseball diamond, that's the man I'll always remember and thats the man I'll miss.

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 08:09 PM

Apparently there's the idea that people who develop glaucoma also tend to have high blood pressure, so that might explain how someone so young had such a damaging stroke.  Combine that risk with the weight...<img height="384" src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/rocketsaucetd/428d7451.jpg" width="512" border="0" />...and it becomes sadly obvious what probably happened.Man, I remember him retiring being so sad.  The only other time I teared up over a sports figure having a press conference was when Walter Payton announced he was sick.Goddamit, Kirby.  Why couldn't you have stayed like this?<img height="425" src="http://images.art.com/images/products/large/10103000/10103720.jpg" width="340" border="0" />

El Mudo

03-06-2006, 08:10 PM

A hell of a ballplayer....

I never had a team growing up, but I always appreciated Puckett for what he did as a Twin...I just wish we coulda had him here...And there is a soft spot in ol' El Mudo's heart for the Twins because of him

He always looked like there was so much joy in his heart whenever he was out there playing...

You see all these guys now that just look angry all the time, but Puckett was playing a kids game, just like these guys are, and looked genuinely happy all the time to just be out there playing ball every day...

We should all be so lucky to have that kind of joy in our hearts in whatever profession we choose to go into...

HBox

03-06-2006, 08:14 PM

ESPN posted the 911 call transcript. If you are feeling emotional don't read it, that was some sad shit.

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 08:19 PM

You see all these guys now that just look angry all the time, but Puckett was playing a kids game, just like these guys are, and looked genuinely happy all the time to just be out there playing ball every day...EXACTLY.  That's what made him so easy to love as a kid.  He really did act like he had THE greatest job in the world.

Patches

03-06-2006, 10:40 PM

Wow... you fucks can at least wait till the body's cold...It is truly repulsive the lack of respect for a man who, even with all the articles in the world, none of you know a goddamn solid FACT about...  Let a fucking shovel-full of dirt be thrown on the coffin before you bury him.  Have that much respect.  You and your family would appreciate the same when its your time.

EliSnow

03-07-2006, 05:56 AM

When I heard about the various charges and allegations about Puckett, I too felt let down.  I grew up in Minnesota, and during the '80's and '90's, no one was bigger in Minnesota than Kirby Puckett.  And it wasn't just because he played the game like it was a game or because he was so good at what he did.It was because he was loyal to the Twins organization and also because he was humble (at least publicly) at the same time.  I remember one year when Ricky Henderson got a new contract that at the time paid him more than any other major league player (I think it was 3.1 million).   Two weeks later, the Twins (never known for having loose purse strings) paid Puckett 3.2 million.  Henderson immediately went back to his team and demanded to be paid more money  (now, he may have had a clause in his contract that allowed him to do that but still).  Puckett didn't care about it.  He got a contract that demonstrated that the Twins considered him the best player in baseball at that time.  He didn't need to do a one-up-manship afterwards to soothe his ego like Henderson did.Furthermore, in the mid-1990's, when the Twins went back to being the Twinkies and sucking, Puckett stuck around even though he was getting offers to go to other teams that were contenders.So when I heard about the allegations and charges, I was disappointed, and yes I felt betrayed.  But I've come to realize that I wasn't betrayed.  He didn't owe me anything.  He owed his wife and children certain things, and maybe he let them down, but for me, he owed me nothing.  We're all flawed, and despite the fact that he was a great baseball player, I shouldn't  expect him to be a great man.  I agree that any abuse of women is appalling, but at the same time, I have no idea how much of the allegations are true, and how much is bullshit claimed by people trying to make a buck or bring someone down.   We all believe that where there is smoke there is fire, and many times it's probably true.  But I don't know that in this case.  I won't defend him and say that they are false, but I won't attack him and say that they are true.So I can only say what I know to be true:  the man was a great baseball player who brought joy to my life.   For that, I have to thank him, even though he never intended to bring such joy to me.  Finally, someone pointed out that Puck and Donny Baseball have similar stats but Donny's not in the Hall.  While I'm not a complete stats nut (and thought that Mattingly had similar stats to Hrbek and not Puckett), there is one statistical difference that I know of, and, probably unfairly, is the reason why Mattingly is not in the Hall of Fame.  Puckett had two World Series rings.  Mattingly had none.

This message was edited by EliSnow on 3-7-06 @ 9:58 AM

Death Metal Moe

03-07-2006, 06:06 AM

EliSnow wrote: So when I heard about the allegations and charges, I was disappointed, and yes I felt betrayed.  But I've come to realize that I wasn't betrayed.  He didn't owe me anything.  He owed his wife and children certain things, and maybe he let them down, but for me, he owed me nothing.  And that's the main point.  The sport makes them public figures but they're just people.  They owe us what they gave us.  They gave us great performances and that's the end of what our business is.Boy, I wish I was allowed to go on 5 paragraph tirades in the Freda thread.  What am I saying, I didn't have any desire to do that but people yelled at me like I was about to.  Getting let down is life, get used to it.  People are imperfect.

TheMojoPin

03-07-2006, 07:37 AM

Yeah, fine, fuck it.  The guy meant a lot to me as a kid, and the revelation of his life of the field hit me in an unexpected way.  His death stirred up a LOT of emotions about him, me, my childhood...serious stuff.  But hey, shut the fuck up about that, Mojo!  Just spew a bunch of meaningless platitudes and get back in the corner.  Honestly, I didn't go on any tirades out of pure spite just to attack him for no reason...his death made me emotional and I was venting.  I'm sick of the implication that it's no better than Moe wanting to go on about D&M in the threads about Frieda's death...it's so far from being the same thing it's sickening.  So those of you with the holier than thou attitudes that you can dictate how I'm going to respond to the death of someone who did mean a whole hell of a lot to me for a good 10 years of my life, go fuck yourselves.

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-7-06 @ 11:38 AM

Death Metal Moe

03-07-2006, 08:07 AM

Go Fuck myself?Jesus, this is the kind of stuff people are afraid I'd do as a Mod.  I can curse people out too.

TheMojoPin

03-07-2006, 08:20 AM

What, I'm not allowed to get pissed when I'm pretty much spilling my heart out over something and someone that meant a LOT to me for a good chunk of my life, good AND bad, and people just dismiss it and make like I'm some awful person for having feelings?  Yeah, great, I'll bottle it up and say nothing.  Great use of a message board.  It's not like I ran in here when he died and danced that he was dead.  I feel I explained pretty explicitly why I'm feeling like I do.  I'm not telling anyone how THEY should feel about this.  I feel strongly about Kirby Puckett, good and bad, and his death just amplified that to the nth degree.  I attempted to explain myself as clearly as possible and hopefully stimulate some discussion in regards to when other people may have felt the same way in their lives...some people responded that way, and others just apparently ignored that and automatically declared me a bastard because I didn't just post "RIP Kirby" and waddle away, or keep insisting that my response is somehow even remotely similar to what you may or may not have wanted to post in the Frieda thread.  Maybe it's just my family, but when someone dies, you remember them, good and bad.  It's who they were...it's what defined them when they were alive.  My perception of Kirby Puckett in life and death is dictated by the good and bad...both shaped HUGE aspects of my life as I grew up, and I only wanted to try and express that here.  Where else would have possibly been a better thread?  Yeah, my first 2 posts in here were VERY harsh (and it doesn't help that the thread title edit option makes it look like I posted them AFTER he had died), but I honestly didn't expect him to die as young as he was.  Sure, that could be seen as a cop-out, but there's not a person here who wouldn't say something about someone and then regret or rethink it when they pass on.  That's life.  And death.  And I was just being honest.  I didn't just hate him OR love him.  He led a complicated life and brought up very complicated emotions in me.  I'm sick of that being dismissed like I just wanted to tear the man down after he died.

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-7-06 @ 12:46 PM

EliSnow

03-07-2006, 08:51 AM

Mojo, I can't tell you how to feel or how to express your feelings.  I only provided my perspective as someone who went through similar feelings when I heard about the allegations about Puckett and how I dealt with such feelings.  You've admitted that your first couple of posts were harsh (and given the situation, they were), but I think with the rest you gave the basis for your opinions.  I disagree with some of them, but I don't have a problem with you.

TheMojoPin

03-07-2006, 08:59 AM

Fair enough.  I fully understand what people are saying when they say "he was just a man, they're just athletes, etc.."  Kirby was just the one that really hurt the most.  I really like the Santa Claus analogy...he's the one I WANTED to be better than the rest.  It's very hurtful and conflicting...no, he didn't "owe" me anything, but why can't I expect something of my childhood heroes?  I don't think I was asking too much.  I hate that the glorious baseball memories I'll forever have of him, some of the greatest I'll EVER see, are stained forever.  I wanted them to stay pure.  For me, that actually makes his death even more sad.

EliSnow

03-07-2006, 09:23 AM

TheMojoPin wrote: Fair enough.  I fully understand what people are saying when they say "he was just a man, they're just athletes, etc.."  Kirby was just the one that really hurt the most.  I really like the Santa Claus analogy...he's the one I WANTED to be better than the rest.  It's very hurtful and conflicting...no, he didn't "owe" me anything, but why can't I expect something of my childhood heroes?  I don't think I was asking too much.  I hate that the glorious baseball memories I'll forever have of him, some of the greatest I'll EVER see, are stained forever.  I wanted them to stay pure.  For me, that actually makes his death even more sad. I think you can expect certain things of childhood heroes, but you have to be careful at what you set your expectations for those persons.  You feel betrayed because he did not meet up to your expectations, but your expectations are set by you.  With sports heroes, maybe we should set expectations limited to the their sport and what they do and say.  For instance, we should expect that they assert themselves 100%, that they don't cheat within that sport, and that they appreciate fans that appreciate them.  Do we have a right to have expectations that, off the field, that they are faithful, honest, and good people?  Unless they present such an image for whatever reason, I don't think so.  Furthermore, given how often sports heroes show that great ability does not equal great person, I think that we shouldn't have such expectations because they will only fail.

TheMojoPin

03-07-2006, 09:29 AM

But at the same time, Kirby very clearly and willfully endorsed and encouraged his image of being the "good guy," when he really wasn't.  Rose never did that, Strawberry never did that...Kirby wanted us to think he was the one that wouldn't do all the things that eventually came out about him.  That's why I take it so much more personally.  I don't see what's wrong with having expectations.  Yes, I realize that much of this is clouded by childhood perceptions and idolizing, but still, it hurts.  I'm not expecting other people to understand...for ME, Kirby was the one that slapped the reality across my face.  I think we all have people are situations that did the same...it's just different for each person.  Kirby happened to be mine.

EliSnow

03-07-2006, 09:56 AM

TheMojoPin wrote: But at the same time, Kirby very clearly and willfully endorsed and encouraged his image of being the "good guy," when he really wasn't.  Rose never did that, Strawberry never did that...Kirby wanted us to think he was the one that wouldn't do all the things that eventually came out about him.  That's why I take it so much more personally.  I don't see what's wrong with having expectations.  Yes, I realize that much of this is clouded by childhood perceptions and idolizing, but still, it hurts.  I'm not expecting other people to understand...for ME, Kirby was the one that slapped the reality across my face.  I think we all have people are situations that did the same...it's just different for each person.  Kirby happened to be mine. I realize this may be splitting hairs, but to the extent that Kirby endorsed the "nice guy" image, I always took it as being a "nice guy" on the field.  Everyone that ever repeated that statement was always his teammates or opponents.  And it could be that he was a nice guy on the field, but was not a nice guy to women in his life (or in general).  With regard to beng a nice guy, some people may be nice guys to some people but not to others.  I have a number of ex-girlfriends that think I'm a nice guy, but there are probably some women that I dated or that I slept with that think I'm an ass (a great lay for certain, but an ass nonetheless).  Does this mean that I'm not a nice guy?  There is a difference between my example and Kirby's but I think there are some similarities.I understand your feelings, and went through similar feelings with regard to Kirby and Jordan when I heard about his gambling problem.  And I'm not saying that you are wrong to have such feelings.  In fact, probably every sports fan or every person will go through something similar when a hero disappoints them.  My only point is that we have to learn to adjust such expectations, if only to spare ourselves when people don't meet them.  

This message was edited by EliSnow on 3-7-06 @ 2:17 PM

TheMojoPin

03-07-2006, 10:32 AM

Well, and I have, because of Kirby Puckett.  But since he was the breaking point, it makes him that much more...something.  It doesn't help that I view treating women the way he's been accused is something I personally find unforgivable.  That goes far beyond him just not being a nice guy.I mean, would we tolerate or try and ignore or sugarcoat this if he wasn't a baseball player?  Let me put it this way...and I'm not saying the two did the same thing...but when OJ Simpson dies, will it only be acceptable to focus on his remarkable football career and not what happened afterwards?  He was found not guilty over that, too.  My point is just that you are who you are...death doesn't change things or magically erase them.  You lived your life as you chose to.  Death is a time for reflection, good and bad.  It would be a disservice to ourselves if we ignore who a person was.

Earlshog

03-07-2006, 01:40 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: In fairness to Kirby it should be pointed out that he was acquitted of the sexual assault charges.  Yes, THAT charge.  That's far, FAR from the only one (not that they're all assault charges).  I'm assuming that the "hateful comments" are directed at me, but I really don't think I have made any besides the very first post of mine here, which was posted before he died.  I'm just explaining my perspective as to why his death (and life) DOES mean something to me.This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-6-06 @ 11:19 PMHey Mojo,No I was not singling you out specifically.

Gvac

03-07-2006, 03:36 PM

Just to veer slightly off topic for a bit, I'd like to show you all
how we never really lose the love we had for our childhood
heroes.  Last week I saw a local bookstore advertising a
book signing by legendary Brooklyn Dodger Duke Snider.  My dad
grew up worshipping the Duke, so I gave him a buzz and told him about
it.  My parents moved to Vermont a few years ago (some 300 miles
away) so I didn't think he'd actually entertain the idea of coming all
the way down just to meet Mr. Snider, but last night he called me and
said they'll be here so I'd better make plans to get together.  At
66 years of age, my father gets just like a little boy when he tells
stories of "Dem Bums" and skipping school to go to Ebbets Field to see
his beloved Dodgers.  He instilled in me a love of baseball from
the time I was old enough to stand, and apparently he's still got that
same passion for the game still flowing through his veins.

Bulldogcakes

03-07-2006, 03:38 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: But at the same time, Kirby very clearly and willfully endorsed and encouraged his image of being the "good guy," when he really wasn't.  I'm not so sure about that. Listening all day to the guys who played with him, and covered him in the press he was really a great guy. Inspiring, hustling, can do guy. And a guy who people just loved to be around. I think he had problems ajusting to life after baseball, as ALOT of atheletes do. From what I can gather, all of his problems came after he retired. And dont forget, he didn't retire on his own terms. <blockquote />

TheMojoPin

03-07-2006, 03:39 PM

That's pretty cool, Gvac.  I take it the signing hasn't happened yet, right?  Let us know how that goes...It's such a cliche, but baseball is something my dad and I always will share, and I love that we have that.  As much as I read up and watch about the sport, my dad still stuns me with how much he knows about it.

TheMojoPin

03-07-2006, 03:42 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  TheMojoPin wrote: But at the same time, Kirby very clearly and willfully endorsed and encouraged his image of being the "good guy," when he really wasn't.  I'm not so sure about that. Listening all day to the guys who played with him, and covered him in the press he was really a great guy. Inspiring, hustling, can do guy. And a guy who people just loved to be around. I think he had problems ajusting to life after baseball, as ALOT of atheletes do. From what I can gather, all of his problems came after he retired. And dont forget, he didn't retire on his own terms.  I'm talking about his image beyond just that as a player.  The stories about him date back to when he was playing, so if they are true, that definitely conflicts strongly with the image he and the organization were attemtping to project.  And the second part makes me sort of uncomfortable, since it sounds like excuses for what he may have done.  It was very crappy how his career ended, but that's no reason to take it out on other people, especially women.And I know it's an ugly and not a totally accurate direct comparison, but this really did get me thinking about this...like I said earlier, what about OJ Simpson?  The man played incredible football...but after he retired, what happened in his personal life tarnished all of those athletic accomplishments.  But, like Puckett, he was technically found not guilty.  So when HE finally passes on, what's going to be the reaction then?

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-7-06 @ 7:49 PM

CYYYFYYY

03-07-2006, 05:59 PM

<div>All I am saying is I am not going to grieve over a molester.  One report I would understand but he has so damn many.   People say Rickey Henderson is a bad guy but he never did anything close to Pucket.  If he did that shit to your sister would you be grieving his death.   Why respect a man who did not respect women.  Wow he was a good player.   A great Player.  I rooted for him against the Braves.  Is he a great player.  YEP!   But as a human being he is scum.  So excuse me.  Just because a man is dead does not make him good.  So for the people are sad about his death.  So sad.  Find a real hero.  OR at least a player who does not molest women.   </div>

Death Metal Moe

03-07-2006, 06:03 PM

I'm going to remember this in the next death thread I see.

HBox

03-07-2006, 06:07 PM

I'm going to remember this in the next death thread I see. [color=navy]You're gonna remember THIS? This happens in EVERY goddamned death thread on this board. 

This message was edited by HBox on 3-7-06 @ 10:07 PM

Gvac

03-07-2006, 06:48 PM

A farmer got so old that he couldn't work the fields anymore. So he
would spend the day just sitting on the porch. His son, still working
the farm, would look up from time to time and see his father sitting
there. "He's of no use any more," the son thought to himself, "he
doesn't do anything!" One day the son got so frustrated by this, that
he built a wooden coffin, dragged it over to the porch, and told his
father to get in. Without saying anything, the father climbed inside.
After closing the lid, the son dragged the coffin to the edge of the
farm where there was a high cliff. As he approached the drop, he heard
a light tapping on the lid from inside the coffin. He opened it up.
Still lying there peacefully, the father looked up at his son. "I know
you are going to throw me over the cliff, but before you do, may I
suggest something?" "What is it?" replied the son. "Throw me over the
cliff, if you like," said the father, "but save this good wooden
coffin. Your children might need to use it."