NY Yankees 2006 Season [Archive] - Page 6

Tenbatsuzen

08-15-2006, 08:53 PM

OK, I fucked up.  The Sox do NOT have as hefty as a payroll as the Yankees do.  But we can both see that Giambi and the Unit are massively overpaid for what they produce (although Giambi is scoring points with the mustache, I'm wondering if Fasano convinced him to do it)  Here's the deal.  The Yankees sell the most merchandise, they lead the league in attendance numbers, and they have an owner who is willing to spend money. Yes, players have been overpaid for.  And what sucks is, Cano and Melky are going to make the payroll inflate even more in the future and give everyone more ammunition to complain about, even though they are "home grown talent". 50 million of the 200 million is "homegrown" talent.The Yankees got Matsui on the cheap, and he signed a big extension.  Is that our fault that we have good scouts in Japan and he wanted to play here?A-Rod was TRADED, not signed here.  Remember, Boston screwed the pooch on that and let the deal fall apart. Damon coming here was a pure and simple hatefuck gesture to the Red Sox brass.

BoondockSaint

08-15-2006, 09:04 PM

Melky won't increase the payroll.  He won't be around.  Unless they fit him in the outfield between Hideki, Johnny, and Bobby.

HBox

08-15-2006, 09:18 PM

BoondockSaint wrote: Melky won't increase the payroll. He won't be around. Unless they fit him in the outfield between Hideki, Johnny, and Bobby.  Melky is very young and Abreu's contract after next year. The only way Melky is gone is if he is included in a deal for a young big time pitcher. If that doesn't happen (which i'd bet on) they'll find playing time for him in a year. He could fill a Bernie role for next year. I'm sure they'd like to keep Melky's defense in LF as much as they can and give Matsui a bunch of DH time.

Tenbatsuzen

08-15-2006, 09:22 PM

HBox wrote: BoondockSaint wrote: Melky won't increase the payroll. He won't be around. Unless they fit him in the outfield between Hideki, Johnny, and Bobby. Melky is very young and Abreu's contract after next year. The only way Melky is gone is if he is included in a deal for a young big time pitcher. If that doesn't happen (which i'd bet on) they'll find playing time for him in a year. He could fill a Bernie role for next year. I'm sure they'd like to keep Melky's defense in LF as much as they can and give Matsui a bunch of DH time.   What's the deal with Craig Wilson's contract? Melky is basically a walking insurance contract if anyone in the outfield gets injured. Although there was a huge Nick Johnson circle jerk on this very website 2 years ago, and that didn't turn out so great for the Yankees either.

spoon

08-15-2006, 09:29 PM

So, while we'll have to wait and see how much Abreu adds to the Yankee offense, Yankee-haters will crow about how baseball is ruined when Steinbrenner adds to his payroll. Instead of whining about the Yankees, I prefer giving them credit for becoming a landfill where teams can dump salary. This means that while George pays even more for less than a California homeowner, other teams can use their savings to purchase productive players or build the farm system. For the record, Steinbrenner began this season with a payroll of $208 million and change, which is almost more scoots than the payrolls of the other four AL East teams — including the pricey Red Sox — combined.  So even though this piece taken from Fox Sports tried to argue for the yanks, it made the author out to be an idiot.  Yah, thank god the yanks are in the league.  I can just hear the rest of the small market teams who actually an even playing field saying this.  With the old contracts added in (as Tenbats stated), the yanks WERE already at $208+ million at the start of the year.  So with the trades they're easily at $215 or more.  The Sox are at $120 (at least somewhat close to the other teams, not to mention they are just trying to keep up with the yankees), the O's at $72 million, the Jays now below $70 million due to the Hillenbrand trade and the TB at around $30 mill or so.  Also, I say thank god for the few teams that can push for the big free agents so they at least take a few from the yanks and push the price up for those they get.  But a big Fuck You to the Phillies for practically giving Abreu and Lidle away since they fucked up with the original salary.  They should be made to pay it out and suffer for the signing.  The yanks do become the salary dump team (which they help create these salary situations on other teams and they get to pick which they'll take when these teams fail to contend) and nobody else can cover up mistakes like they can.  Your comment that they also have to pay salaries out there who aren't even on the team is no argument for the yanks.  If anything, it's more of a black mark, stating they don't make good decisions and have enough money to cover them up over and over.  It's a fucking joke and shouldn't be respected.  Right now, the yanks have 5 players on the team who make more than the Marlins whole fucking team (15 mil).  These players come in at #1 Arod $26 mil (Texas dump/best player in mlb), #2 Jeter $21 mil, #3 Giambi $20 mil (A's best player stolen FA), #6 Mussina $19 mil (O's best pitcher stolen FA), #11 Johnson 16 mil (D'back's #1/2 pitcher stolen FA). Also, the yanks also have #19 Abreu $14 mil (Philly dump), #24 Damon $13 mil (Boston FA), #25 Matsui $13 (Japanese top FA outbid MLB), #33 Posada $12 mil, #45 Shef $11 mil (big FA) and finally #50 Rivera.  The only guys I can respect is Mo, Jeter and Posada on this fucking team.  Add the top four guys on the yanks and you easily have a salary more then the Jays and O's right now.  The yank payroll is now 3 times that of two teams in the division and around 6 times that of TB.  Hell, the yanks almost have the Red Sox doubled up now, and they have the SECOND highest payroll in MLB!  Seriously, that's fair to you?  The league as a whole is the product and it seems only the NHL and NFL understand that these days.  I love when yankee fans make fun of attendence at other ballparks, but can you blame them.  Over 162 games, they ultimately have no chance.  The league is so dependent on the yankees due to it's own actions or better yet inaction.  Just like the steroid issue, mlb is fucking up another major problem with it's game.  Sure smaller market teams in other divisions can get into the playoffs granted there are huge payrolls there to buy their pennants.  And in a short series any team can get lucky or ride h

spoon

08-15-2006, 09:33 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: The Jays went out in the offseason and all they did was spend spoon. Can you still really use this argument? We all know the Yanks have the highest payroll, but we also know that doesn't ever mean they'll win. It's not like the Jays couldn't make deadline moves. No, they can't bc they spent every last cent the new owners were able to allocate for the team.  And by spend, do you mean make a few moves to get their payroll to a normal level?  They've easily lost more great players to free agency than they have gained.  Also, why should a team that makes $10 on the year use it all for one more player who probably can't get them over the hump, let alone that much closer to it.  That argument is null as well as teams aren't stupid.

spoon

08-15-2006, 09:47 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: OK, I fucked up.  The Sox do NOT have as hefty as a payroll as the Yankees do.  But we can both see that Giambi and the Unit are massively overpaid for what they produce (although Giambi is scoring points with the mustache, I'm wondering if Fasano convinced him to do it)  Are they?  They produce a lot more then yank fans like to think.    Here's the deal.  The Yankees sell the most merchandise, they lead the league in attendance numbers, and they have an owner who is willing to spend money.  Why is this?  If the league was setup better, more small/mid market level teams would make the playoffs, create fans and take the spotlight from the yankees.  The yankees wouldn't draw like they do if they didn't field a fucking all-star team from great players from all over the league.  This owner you claim who spends money is making it hand over fist, let's not be stupid.  Sure they get hit with a lux tax, but he has a fucking monopoly in one hell of a lucrative market.    Yes, players have been overpaid for.  And what sucks is, Cano and Melky are going to make the payroll inflate even more in the future and give everyone more ammunition to complain about, even though they are "home grown talent".   50 million of the 200 million is "homegrown" talent.  I wouldn't argue that at all, but other teams can't aford to keep there's bc of the lack of cap and crazy George and those trying to keep pace at all.  It's a crazy cycle. The Yankees got Matsui on the cheap, and he signed a big extension.  Is that our fault that we have good scouts in Japan and he wanted to play here?  Question one, why did he want to be here (NYY)?  Answer: The same reason the yanks have the most titles, fans and the best players already.  Viscious cycle once more.  Think LA Lakers a few years back when everyone wanted to go there for a free title and a payday.  Question two, Who the fuck didn't go after Matsui?  Answer:  Everyone was interested in him but not many had the money to go after an unproven player in the States even though he was a star in Japan.  Quite simply, the yanks outbid a number of other teams on him.  In fact, they were way over the next highest offer if I remember correctly.  They did the same with Soriano.  The yankee farm teams have higher payrolls than the bottom 1/5 of MLB bc they have unlimited funds to take a ton of chances there too.     A-Rod was TRADED, not signed here.  Remember, Boston screwed the pooch on that and let the deal fall apart.   Damon coming here was a pure and simple hatefuck gesture to the Red Sox brass.  And due to the current setup of MLB they were the only two places Arod could end up.  As for Damon, say what you want, but the Sox just couldn't cover it up if he did run out of gas in the next two years.  If he does in NY, they'll probably sign Wells in 2008 on my Jays and pay both none-the-less.  Another possible contract being paid (covered up) for a player not playing possibility.

Tenbatsuzen

08-15-2006, 09:48 PM

Spoon, 50 million dollars of the Yankees payroll is home grown talent.  That's Jeter, Posada, Mo, Williams, Cano, etc. I will agree with you that Giambi and Unit are overpaid, and I cringed when I found out that Johnson was coming to the Yankees.  I didn't like the move at all. I believe wholeheartedly that Damon was NOT overpaid for, and Damon WANTED to come here.  You're forgetting that key thing - people want to play on a winner, that's why the Yankees attract big players.  You play in a big media market, get big endorsements. Hell, the Yankees got Abreu and Lidle for what amounted to Yankee farm system table scraps.  Is that our fault?  Abreu could have voided the deal.. he didn't.  I'm not saying that the Yankees overspend - they do.  But a lot of teams compete with lower payrolls.  The Yankees have the highest payroll for a while now and haven't seen a championship in 6 years.   You're attacking from two very weird angles here... "OH, THE YANKEES HAVE THE BIGGEST PAYROLL IN SPORTS, THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD THE AL EAST SEWN UP MONTHS AGO!" and then come at us with "HOW CAN OTHER TEAMS COMPETE WHEN THE YANKEES SPEND SO MUCH MONEY?!?!" Well, the Yankees have spent money, and it got us jack shit in the last 6 years.  We don't ALWAYS get the best players.  In the 6 years that the Yankees have won a championship, we saw The D-Backs, Angels, Marlins, Red Sox, and White Sox win.  All teams with much lower payroll than the Yankees, and they could compete. So I don't want to hear it.  The Twins, A's, and other teams "compete" every year.  The Yankees payroll gets them through a 162 game series, but all bets are off in the playoffs.

spoon

08-15-2006, 09:52 PM

As for Melky, Cano and Wang, I believe the yanks are really trying to keep them to cast aside the neh sayers about the yanks buying titles.  It's a good move, but only masks the way the yanks now operate.  This crew is no Bernie, Jeter, Mo, Posado base.  It's interesting that the yanks never develop a good starting pitcher themselves.  Wang is another big prospect FA signing that other teams couldn't match on a fucking prospect who would pay minor league ball for some time.  Not to mention the labrum tear back a few years that loomed.  But the yanks are not regulated on any level and of course could aford the risk there too. 

Tenbatsuzen

08-15-2006, 09:55 PM

Let's look at the other owners in the AL East, shall we? Red Sox - spends money to stay competitive.  No problem. Peter Angelos - will not spend money to stay competitive.  Fired Lee Mazilli after less than a season. Ted Rogers - HE IS A FUCKING BILLIONAIRE AND OWNS CANADA'S VERSION OF VERIZON. Tampa is considered a bad, bad team and should be contracted.  George Steinbrenner - is competitive to the point of psychosis. So is it any shock that the Yankees and the Red Sox are always 1-2 in the division?

spoon

08-15-2006, 10:02 PM

Well, the Yankees have spent money, and it got us jack shit in the last 6 years.  We don't ALWAYS get the best players.  In the 6 years that the Yankees have won a championship, we saw The D-Backs, Angels, Marlins, Red Sox, and White Sox win.  All teams with much lower payroll than the Yankees, and they could compete. So I don't want to hear it.  The Twins, A's, and other teams "compete" every year.  The Yankees payroll gets them through a 162 game series, but all bets are off in the playoffs.  "it got us jack shit in the last 6 years..."  "We don't always get the best players...."  Are you listening to yourself?  This shit drives me nuts!  I'd kill for another pennant and a playoff shot.  You yank fans are beyond spoiled and jaded to what the game should be. You need to reread my last few posts since you obviously missed where I addressed these topics.  All it has gotten them is a pennant every single year of those six and a ticket into the playoffs for a shot at the title.  In a small series another team can surely win and even George can't buy his way all the way to the title.  But getting there every fucking year is the payoff and all it can bring you.  So enough with the old tired argument.  The other teams that have beat the yanks in the playoffs where mostly high payroll teams when pitted against the other teams in their divisions.  Others just got lucky with some youth coming of age early and all at once and then fall apart quick bc they can't keep them.  Imagine your team was in the other situation and as soon as their contract was up you lost Jeter, Mo, Posada and then Williams.  You'd be fucking pissed and probably would have never seen a title at all.  The game is a mess and I'm just tired of the fact that yankee fans claim to be great baseball fans when in fact they only love their team and how the league allows them to flourish.  So even if you don't "want to hear it", there it is.

HBox

08-15-2006, 10:03 PM

This means that while George pays even more for
less than a California homeowner, other teams can use their savings to
purchase productive players or build the farm system.<img width="300" height="213" border="0" src="http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper410/stills/d8l0se97.jpg" />

spoon

08-15-2006, 10:10 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: Let's look at the other owners in the AL East, shall we? Red Sox - spends money to stay competitive.  No problem. Peter Angelos - will not spend money to stay competitive.  Fired Lee Mazilli after less than a season. Ted Rogers - HE IS A FUCKING BILLIONAIRE AND OWNS CANADA'S VERSION OF VERIZON. Tampa is considered a bad, bad team and should be contracted.  George Steinbrenner - is competitive to the point of psychosis. So is it any shock that the Yankees and the Red Sox are always 1-2 in the division?   The O's have spent in the past, but Angelos is a fucking awful builder of a team.  They always have a really strange mix of players and ages that just doesn't make sense and it shows.Should Rogers lose more money on the Jays then he already is when a move or two more wouldn't make a dif anyway?  I know you wouldn't bleed you're own personal money with a team either.  He's brought the team to a respectable level of pay and I'm fine with what he's done.  Anything over $100 million is getting rediculous, no doubt about it.  Calling George competitive bc he spends is a joke.  Once again, he's making money on this team, don't be a fool.  As long as he can control MLB and keep them from making adjustments needed for the overall game, he'll continue to make tons of money bc it sets his team up as the golden all-stars.  He doesn't need good fucking scouts, he just out and out gets every teams best player in their prime once they play 6 years.  Call the owner of the Twins or A's a great competitor, but the yankees fucking sucked out loud in the 80's and early 90's until the flood gates of free agency hid his inability to run a fucking team.

spoon

08-15-2006, 10:11 PM

Yep, that brought them up to $72 million in the middle payroll ranks of the league.  No point taken.

HBox

08-15-2006, 10:13 PM

HBox wrote:  This means that while George pays even more for
less than a California homeowner, other teams can use their savings to
purchase productive players or build the farm system. <img width="300" height="213" border="0" src="http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper410/stills/d8l0se97.jpg" />

spoon

08-15-2006, 10:13 PM

And listen, I'm not here just bashing the yanks.  I'm even more upset with the damn league as a whole for not seeing how effective a full league of competitive teams can make MLB as a whole a much better league.  It's getting sooooo old after over a decade of free agency run amuck.

HBox

08-15-2006, 10:38 PM

Call the owner of the Twins or A's a great
competitor, but the yankees fucking sucked out loud in the 80's and
early 90's until the flood gates of free agency hid his inability to
run a fucking team. Players acquired through free agency on the 1998 Yankees: Darryl Strawberry, Joe Girardi, Tim Raines, Chili Davis, Dale Sveum, Hideki Irabu, David Wells, Orlando Hernandez, Mike Stanton, Darren Holmes1999 Yankees: Chili Davis, Darryl Strawberry, Orlando Hernandez, Hideki Irabu, Mike Stanton, Jason Grimsley.2000 Yankees: Jose Vizcaino, Luis Polonia. Orlando Hernandez, Jason Grimsley, Mike StantonAnd then you have this: Home Grown Players on the Championship Teams: Bernie Williams, Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera, Andy Pettite, Ramiro Mendoza, Shane Spencer, Ricky Ledee, One of these groups is MUCH more significant than the other. If you are going to say that free agency is responsible for the Yanks championships, or even that it's the most important thing, that is not only insanely stupid, I must question your sanity. You can say that about this current team but not the championship teams. Most of those free agents up there were role players who could have been had by any other team. I'd say only Hernandez, Wells and Stanton were huge contributers that the Yanks would have outbid anyone else. Everyone else of note was acquired through trade. Paul O'Neill, Scott Brosius, Tino Martinez, David Cone, Roger Clemens, Chuck Knoblauch, Jeff Nelson, Graeme Lloyd. I'd say salary was only played a major role in the Clemens trade. For any of the other there were plenty of teams that could have had those players if they wanted. For those deals everyone was on equal footing since the currency was prospects.

BoondockSaint

08-15-2006, 10:50 PM

I'd say salary was only played a major role in the Clemens trade.I'd say Abreu, also.

HBox

08-15-2006, 11:05 PM

BoondockSaint wrote:  I'd say salary was only played a major role in the Clemens trade. I'd say Abreu, also.  i was only speaking on the Championship teams. I pretty much admitted that the current team was contructed with chucking money every which way.On the current team money played a huge role in acquiring the following players: Jason Giambi, Mike Mussina, Randy Johnson, Gary Sheffield, Hideki Matsui, Johnny Damon, Alex Rodriguez, Carl Pavano, Kyle Farnsworth, Jaret Wright, Bobby Abreu and Cory Lidle.Obviously a hugely different situation than before. Where the golden years team was contructed by churning out a couple Hall of Famers and a few perrenial All-Stars from the farm system and savvy trades, the new mind set seemed to be run towards the most obvious solution money be damned. Cashman looks to be reigning that a bit so far, taking advantage of the money advantage where smart (Abreu deal) and not sinking it into long term disaster contracts (Giambi). Of course he hasn't even been fully in charge for a year so that may change. And while I may have disagreed with the Damon deal at the time and still cringe when thinking of the last year, it filled a big hole and had a big impact on this years team, bigger than I thought it would. I believe that Cashman has realized that the only way to get great pitching is to develop it. You can bitch about the current system but it has improved balance. Guys like Halladay, Santana, Sheets and such aren't hitting the free agent market anymore. Only with situations like Florida with horrible clueless owners are aces possibly available. And I still say that Willis ain't going anywhere.So hopefully Cashman and the Yanks are patient and let their young prospects develop, and yes, they finally have a few really promising ones. We'll see.

spoon

08-16-2006, 12:16 AM

You make a lot of valid points but those trades do involve the ability to add contracts on a team that is already the highest paid in baseball.  And the reign, in the beggining at least, did have a flair of home grown players on it.  But one would be "insane" to think the yanks didn't fill almost every hole that comes up when needed bc there is no system in place to put a limit on things.  Most other teams are out due to finance, and other are out due to being so far out of the race due to losing players to the yanks and teams trying to stay with them (those that can afford it).  The yanks haven't had a decent starter come from their starting ranks in a long time.  And just bc they don't always get blockbuster guys it doesn't mean the advantage isn't there.  They sign shitloads of middle ground players, past greats returning from injuries and others of this kind to pretty high contracts that other teams just can't waste money on bc they can't afford to miss 20 times a year.  Truthfully, the yankess wouldn't have won shit if they didn't go out and buy a starting rotation.  Besides Petite, the yanks haven't developed shit in the league for some time.  And one guy, not even an ace, wouldn't have won you shit in the 90's.  You'd be where great hitting/bad pitching teams usually end up, out of the playoffs.  Look up the Rangers of old and the Jays this year.  Some movement of players in the league is fine, but not to the same four fucking teams every year during the offseason, trade deadline and waiver deadline.  Do you really think the system is a good one?  Fair to even half the teams currently?  Or are you just riding the wave until it crests when Selig or George die/retire or finally wake up?  Bc Detroit Red Wing fans are going to learn real quick just how hard it is to win again with a level playing field.  It makes you respect teams like the A's and the Twins in MLB, or the Devils in the NHL. 

This message was edited by spoon on 8-16-06 @ 4:18 AM

HBox

08-16-2006, 02:24 PM

Octavio Dotel was activated and will be available tonight,

Tenbatsuzen

08-16-2006, 02:28 PM

HBox wrote: Octavio Dotel was activated and will be available tonight,    Fast forward six days: "Newsday reports that Octavio Dotel will be put on the 15 day DL, retroactive to August 15th."

HBox

08-16-2006, 02:31 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: HBox wrote: Octavio Dotel was activated and will be available tonight, Fast forward six days: "Newsday reports that Octavio Dotel will be put on the 15 day DL, retroactive to August 15th after Joe Torre ptiched Dotel in 5 consecutive three inning stints in 5 blowouts."

Tenbatsuzen

08-16-2006, 03:14 PM

Dear Hbox: Let's never make fun of Markakis again. - Matty

spoon

08-16-2006, 03:29 PM

Can you believe the Devil Rays only have two players with an average over .250 right now.  Not surprisingly they're ranked dead last in hitting. 

spoon

08-16-2006, 03:36 PM

That didn't stop them from banging out 4 runs off the Jays in the first.

Bulldogcakes

08-16-2006, 05:42 PM

Payroll discussions are sooo facinating. And, of course they're utter bullshit. For the people who cry about payroll so much. Let me ask you this. If the Yanks outspent everyone and finished LAST (Like the Mets and Orioles did) would you care? Would you be so up in arms about what a crappy system we have in baseball? Answer-No. So the problem isnt really about the Yankees spending, its about the Yankees winning. As usual. The Yankee haters last, whining resort.   And BTW-The Florida Marlins, with one of the LOWEST payrolls in baseball BEAT the Yankees (with their customary highest) in 2003. So much for the "We cant compete" argument.

spoon

08-16-2006, 07:07 PM

I guess you just post and can't fucking read huh?  At least the other guys attacked the question from other angles.  You've got nothing.  Read a little and then talk.  Every stupid thing you wrote was covered earlier you lazy spank.

Fallon

08-17-2006, 09:22 AM

Roberts and Damon lead off with homers. Weird!

Tenbatsuzen

08-17-2006, 10:07 AM

Put together a production piece of bad dubbing?  OMFG THEY'RE RIPPING OFF O&A!!!

Tenbatsuzen

08-17-2006, 10:07 AM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: Put together a production piece of bad dubbing? OMFG THEY'RE RIPPING OFF O&A!!!    Confused this for a listening thread.  I'm an ass.

HBox

08-17-2006, 01:38 PM

I didn't realize that today was an afternoon game and completely missed it. Turns out that was a good thing.

spoon

08-18-2006, 12:19 AM

It's so quiet in here.  So when was Jeter gonna finally pick up that pop fly he made Arod boot?  Way to be deeek!  "I thought he caught it"....my ass!  He was pissed and put all the blame on Arod.  I love that highlight.  Perfect timing for a huge series.  Too bad Wang will wipe up as Jason Johnson gets fucking bombed.  Let's just hope the Sox and newly acquired Hinske can pound his yellow ass!

spoon

08-18-2006, 12:21 AM

Fallon wrote: Roberts and Damon lead off with homers. Weird! Same thing in the white sox game, but there both teams also led off the second inning with homers as well.

Don Stugots

08-18-2006, 01:39 AM

i am so glad that the yanks picked up a power hitting outfielder before the trade deadline.  pitching doesnt win games.

HBox

08-18-2006, 03:19 AM

STUGOTS1 wrote: i am so glad that the yanks picked up a power hitting outfielder before the trade deadline. pitching doesnt win games.  <img width="150" height="222" border="0" src="http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/images/PT-AC926_SP_GAM_20060804152544.jpg" />"Hi. My name is Cory Lidle. I am a pitcher."If you are going to sit here and bitch that your 5th starter occasionally has a horrible start then you are an example of everything that enrages people about Yankee fans.

crb1

08-18-2006, 04:57 AM

STUGOTS1 wrote: i am so glad that the yanks picked up a power hitting outfielder before the trade deadline.  pitching doesnt win games.  They probably got the best starter available (Maddux wouldn't accept a trade to any east coast team), and he pitched well on Wednesday.  I thought that game was worse than yesterday, considering how many chances they had to win and the fact that they left a small army on base.  Yesterday was just ugly in every aspect. I missed that Jeter play, but it sounds like he's putting the blame on A-Rod.  No surprise there though.  He HATES A-Rod, and it sounds like most people on the team do as well for some reason.  Even Mussina called him out to reporters for making an error a couple of starts ago.Anyone see this in today's Post?<a href="http://www.nypost.com/sports/kaat_scratch_sports_phil_mushnick.htm">http://www.nypost.com/sports/kaat_scratch_sports_phil_mushnick.htm</a>It looks like the Yankees will lose the most insightful, non-homer, and best announcer they have.  Wonderful.  They must have needed more room in the booth for Kay's ego.  I guess they will have Leiter take his place.  

This message was edited by crb1 on 8-18-06 @ 8:58 AM

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 09:14 AM

HBox

08-18-2006, 09:43 AM

Every game of this series is on a different channel. That won't be confusing.

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 09:47 AM

HBox wrote: Every game of this series is on a different channel. That won't be confusing.    Yes, My 9, Fox, ESPN... where does #5 go?

HBox

08-18-2006, 09:48 AM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: HBox wrote: Every game of this series is on a different channel. That won't be confusing. Yes, My 9, Fox, ESPN... where does #5 go?   errrrr............ from now on. <img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/unsure.gif" />

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 10:00 AM

HBox wrote: Tenbatsuzen wrote: HBox wrote: Every game of this series is on a different channel. That won't be confusing. Yes, My 9, Fox, ESPN... where does #5 go? errrrr............ from now on. <img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/unsure.gif" />    Yeah, you just want to see more Fashion House promos. So in the span of a weekend, we get Michael Kay, Tim McCarver, and Joe Morgan.  That's like a shit sandwich with a warm glass of piss to wash it down.

crb1

08-18-2006, 10:21 AM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: So in the span of a weekend, we get Michael Kay, Tim McCarver, and Joe Morgan.  That's like a shit sandwich with a warm glass of piss to wash it down.Try the SAP button.  As dumb as it sounds, you'll still get the in-game sounds and you can just zone out the announcers, which you can't do with any of those three.  I used to watch games like that alot when the local games were on FOX and it was constant McCarver.

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 10:24 AM

crb1 wrote: Tenbatsuzen wrote: So in the span of a weekend, we get Michael Kay, Tim McCarver, and Joe Morgan. That's like a shit sandwich with a warm glass of piss to wash it down.Try the SAP button. As dumb as it sounds, you'll still get the in-game sounds and you can just zone out the announcers, which you can't do with any of those three. I used to watch games like that alot when the local games were on FOX and it was constant McCarver.   I usually listen to the radio.  I may dislike Sterling, but at least he's awful to the point of satire.  The others are just horrible.

crb1

08-18-2006, 11:27 AM

Tenbatsuzen wrote:  crb1 wrote: Tenbatsuzen wrote: So in the span of a weekend, we get Michael Kay, Tim McCarver, and Joe Morgan. That's like a shit sandwich with a warm glass of piss to wash it down.Try the SAP button. As dumb as it sounds, you'll still get the in-game sounds and you can just zone out the announcers, which you can't do with any of those three. I used to watch games like that alot when the local games were on FOX and it was constant McCarver.   I usually listen to the radio.  I may dislike Sterling, but at least he's awful to the point of satire.  The others are just horrible.Sterling could be a great play-by-play guy if he would drop the homer attitude and over-the-top schtick.  I seem to remember him just calling games back when I was a kid, and he was good at it.I thought some of the most interesting YES work I've heard in a long time was the other night when Kay and Leiter discussed a lot of the finer points of pitching.  Maybe not great for the casual fan, but I liked it.

spoon

08-18-2006, 01:55 PM

spoon wrote: It's so quiet in here.  So when was Jeter gonna finally pick up that pop fly he made Arod boot?  Way to be deeek!  "I thought he caught it"....my ass!  He was pissed and put all the blame on Arod.  I love that highlight.  Perfect timing for a huge series.  Too bad Wang will wipe up as Jason Johnson gets fucking bombed.  Let's just hope the Sox and newly acquired Hinske can pound his yellow ass! Johnson fucking sucks!  When the hell are they going to get him out of the rotation?  Who would have seen that score coming?  Oh yah, me!  Ha!  And nice start for Hinske going 3/4 with 3 doubles.  Too bad they put him at the back end of the lineup.

HBox

08-18-2006, 02:15 PM

Without Hinske and Loretta in the lineup Wang could have gone another inning or two and given up a couple less runs. Oh well, still a win.

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 02:28 PM

HBox wrote: Without Hinske and Loretta in the lineup Wang could have gone another inning or two and given up a couple less runs. Oh well, still a win.    The best part?  Yankees used three pitcherss for a combination of 110 pitches.  Myers threw 5 pitches, and Proctor threw 15.  Meanwhile, the Red Sox pen by itself threw 100 pitches.

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 04:33 PM

Is Manny, in fact, wearing a New York Mets doo-rag?

Bulldogcakes

08-18-2006, 05:08 PM

HBox wrote: STUGOTS1 wrote: i am so glad that the yanks picked up a power hitting outfielder before the trade deadline. pitching doesnt win games. <img width="150" height="222" border="0" src="http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/images/PT-AC926_SP_GAM_20060804152544.jpg" />"Hi. My name is Cory Lidle. I am a pitcher."If you are going to sit here and bitch that your 5th starter occasionally has a horrible start then you are an example of everything that enrages people about Yankee fans.  H-Box, why do you care what Yankee haters think? If you think that if you can modify yourself to their liking, you're sadly mistaken. THEY'RE YANKEE HATERS. They'll hate everything about the team (including the fans) no matter what. THats what they call in basketball a low percentage shot. Good luck with that.  I take the time honored strategy that most Yankee fans do. I IGNORE THEM. Which, of course, drives them even more nuts. Which is mildly entertaining.  <blockquote />

Bulldogcakes

08-18-2006, 05:13 PM

This game has 14-13 written all over it. Over around midnight.

BoondockSaint

08-18-2006, 05:16 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: This game has 14-13 written all over it. Over around midnight. I'm thinking the same thing, Ace of Cakes.

Bulldogcakes

08-18-2006, 05:23 PM

BoondockSaint wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: This game has 14-13 written all over it. Over around midnight. I'm thinking the same thing, Ace of Cakes. Nice!  <img width="240" height="360" border="0" src="http://www.revnkevin.com/Motorhead/Lemmy-2.jpg" />  "The Ace of Cakes!"

HBox

08-18-2006, 05:29 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: HBox wrote: STUGOTS1 wrote: i am so glad that the yanks picked up a power hitting outfielder before the trade deadline. pitching doesnt win games. <img width="150" height="222" border="0" src="http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/images/PT-AC926_SP_GAM_20060804152544.jpg" />"Hi. My name is Cory Lidle. I am a pitcher."If you are going to sit here and bitch that your 5th starter occasionally has a horrible start then you are an example of everything that enrages people about Yankee fans. H-Box, why do you care what Yankee haters think? If you think that if you can modify yourself to their liking, you're sadly mistaken. THEY'RE YANKEE HATERS. They'll hate everything about the team (including the fans) no matter what. THats what they call in basketball a low percentage shot. Good luck with that. I take the time honored strategy that most Yankee fans do. I IGNORE THEM. Which, of course, drives them even more nuts. Which is mildly entertaining.   Because I agree with them in this case. With the season that Jaret Wright has had how can you complain? He's the fifth starter! He's going to lay an egg occasionally. And after the great trades Cashman made to improve this team, INCLUDING improving the rotation, someone is still going to complain on the basis of ONE FUCKING GAME!?!?! It's completely fucking asinine. <blockquote />

Don Stugots

08-18-2006, 05:38 PM

exuce me, but the guy has only pitched one good game out of i think 3 or 4 starts.  so, i can complain about that.  Hbox, i can complain about whatever the fuck i want including the fact t hat i hate the idea of a new yankee stadium.  if you dont see where i am coming from thats fine but, i think a place that has been around for as long as it has shouldnt just be tossed aside at the whim of its owner.  same goes for fenway, even though i do not like the red sox, that is a place that should never be replaced.  as for the trades, i have said since they were made that i didnt like them.  i think quality pitching is what wins games, period.  i am sorry you disagree.  it seems that what ever i post in this thread you have a problem with.  we see the game differently thats all.  like i said it is not just one bad start for  the guy, also, wright has not been stellar also.  regardless of where they are in the rotation they need to have quality starts, period.  does the 9th guy in the lineup not have to try as hard to hit the ball since he is up ninth?  no.  every 5th day a pitcher is expected to go out there and win the game, or at least hold the other team down so that the offense can wear down the other pitcher.  keep his team compititive not shit his pants because he is the 5ht starter and its ok. 

Bulldogcakes

08-18-2006, 05:43 PM

H-Box, you're right about everything you said, but just remember "fan" is short for "fanatic" I dont expect most fans to make any sense. Its a passion, an emotional roller coaster. I just go with the flow. Fans bitch, fans yell "Kill the ump", fans boo when a guy strikes out and cheer the same guy when he gets a hit the next AB. All of which gets forgotten 5 minutes after the game is over. I certainly cant change it, and wont waste time trying. And its part of the fun of baseball, how irrational and unreal we all get about it. 

 As seriously as you and I take our favorite team, it is still just a ballgame.     

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 8-18-06 @ 9:47 PM

Don Stugots

08-18-2006, 05:47 PM

see cakes, i never understood that either really.  the people booing arod and then cheer him in the same game to me is retarded.  you either like the guy and want him to do well or you dont.  i know htey can boo if they want but then dont cheer for the guy. 

HBox

08-18-2006, 06:00 PM

STUGOTS1 wrote: exuce me, but the guy has only pitched one good game out of i think 3 or 4 starts. so, i can complain about that. Hbox, i can complain about whatever the fuck i want including the fact t hat i hate the idea of a new yankee stadium. if you dont see where i am coming from thats fine but, i think a place that has been around for as long as it has shouldnt just be tossed aside at the whim of its owner. same goes for fenway, even though i do not like the red sox, that is a place that should never be replaced. as for the trades, i have said since they were made that i didnt like them. i think quality pitching is what wins games, period. i am sorry you disagree. it seems that what ever i post in this thread you have a problem with. we see the game differently thats all. like i said it is not just one bad start for the guy, also, wright has not been stellar also. regardless of where they are in the rotation they need to have quality starts, period. does the 9th guy in the lineup not have to try as hard to hit the ball since he is up ninth? no. every 5th day a pitcher is expected to go out there and win the game, or at least hold the other team down so that the offense can wear down the other pitcher. keep his team compititive not shit his pants because he is the 5ht starter and its ok.   You sit here demanding perfection. Who was available that the Yankees could have traded for? What do you want from your 5th starter? Jaret Wright has gone out there and pitched very well most of the time. How many teams have a better fifth starter than Jaret Wright? How many teams have a better rotation?I have no idea how you can reasonably expect what you expect.And, BTW here are Wright's last eight starts. 7/7 6IP, 4H, 0R, 10Ks W7/16 5.1IP, 8H, 3R, 1K, W7/21 2.2IP 7H, 5R, 2K, L7/26 5.1, 5H, 4R, 3Ks, ND8/1 5IP, 5H, 1R, 5Ks, W8/6 6IP, 5H, 1R, 3Ks, W8/12 5.1IP, 2H, 1R, 2Ks, W8/17 3IP, 2H, 5R, 2Ks, L 6 quality starts out of eight, 5 wins. Again, what do you expect from your fifth starter?

HBox

08-18-2006, 06:04 PM

The home plate umps have been horrible both games. Yanks pitchers have been getting squeezed all damn day. Ortiz should have been struck out.

Don Stugots

08-18-2006, 06:13 PM

maybe pitch past the 6th inning. his record last year and the start of this season hasnt been worth a dime of what he is being paid.  i know that it is part of the game and you never know what you are going to get but why spend money on guy like karsay, leiber, dotel when they cant pitch for you since they are hurt then let them go when they are starting to get into a flow (dotel being the exception since, i havent seen him pitch or cant remember seeing him, in which case i would be wrong).   i dont know if there was anyone on the block that they yanks could have gotten.  i am sure anyone can be traded if youare willing to pay and give up players.  i dont know, none of us know really.  i just disagree with picking up outfielders regardless of how great they are when you have a few already that are great themselves.

HBox

08-18-2006, 06:32 PM

What the hell is going on here? This is the fourth consecutive day Villone has pitched. He threw 40 pitches yesterday. So Torre brings him out for a second inning tonight, he can't find the strike zone on the first two batters, has runners on first and third with no outs and he's STILL out there.And an RBI single. For fucks sake. Thanks for giving up a handicap Joe.

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 06:44 PM

As Waldman dryly noted, "[Villone] has had a half day of rest, so he's ready..."

spoon

08-18-2006, 07:41 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  HBox wrote:  STUGOTS1 wrote: i am so glad that the yanks picked up a power hitting outfielder before the trade deadline. pitching doesnt win games.   <img height="222" src="http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/images/PT-AC926_SP_GAM_20060804152544.jpg" width="150" border="0" />"Hi. My name is Cory Lidle. I am a pitcher."If you are going to sit here and bitch that your 5th starter occasionally has a horrible start then you are an example of everything that enrages people about Yankee fans.  1) H-Box, why do you care what Yankee haters think? If you think that if you can modify yourself to their liking, you're sadly mistaken. THEY'RE YANKEE HATERS. They'll hate everything about the team (including the fans) no matter what. THats what they call in basketball a low percentage shot. Good luck with that.  2)I take the time honored strategy that most Yankee fans do. I IGNORE THEM. Which, of course, drives them even more nuts. Which is mildly entertaining.   1)  Not true, as he's one of the few here that is respected by yankee haters.2)  Do you? Answer is no!  The only thing you add that makes us nuts is that you're a typical yankee fan we've come to despise.   And did the YES network just take off the game!!??  AHhahahahaha!

Fallon

08-18-2006, 07:44 PM

Dammit. I wish Damon and Jeter weren't on my fantasy team. I don't want to be happy about some things.

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 07:47 PM

Wow, just when I thought the girl Jeter hit in the stands freaked him out, he comes through in a major way. I gotta wonder, what happens to a batter when that happens?  Obviously the ball that whizzed by the pitcher's head got him rattled.  I wonder what Jeter does?  Does he call his agent for advice?  Does he show up to the girl's hospital room? Does he talk to the Red Sox people and get her a whole ton of Red Sox merch, courtesy of Jeter? I honestly think the only way Jeter could become more hated in Boston is by accidentally killing the fans.

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 07:49 PM

Why the fuck is Channel 9 relying on this super slow motion?  It's really annoying.  What's next, a close up on Giambi's face as we watch his moustache grow in?

spoon

08-18-2006, 07:49 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  H-Box, you're right about everything you said, but just remember "fan" is short for "fanatic" I dont expect most fans to make any sense. Its a passion, an emotional roller coaster. I just go with the flow. Fans bitch, fans yell "Kill the ump", fans boo when a guy strikes out and cheer the same guy when he gets a hit the next AB. All of which gets forgotten 5 minutes after the game is over. I certainly cant change it, and wont waste time trying. And its part of the fun of baseball, how irrational and unreal we all get about it.     As seriously as you and I take our favorite team, it is still just a ballgame.     This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 8-18-06 @ 9:47 PM You're on fire again huh?  I can't believe you went with the old fan derivitive speil to explain asshole/idiotic yank fans.  Sorry to tell you most fans aren't like yank fans.  Thanks for the lecture though.

HBox

08-18-2006, 07:59 PM

STUGOTS1 wrote: maybe pitch past the 6th inning. his record last year and the start of this season hasnt been worth a dime of what he is being paid. i know that it is part of the game and you never know what you are going to get but why spend money on guy like karsay, leiber, dotel when they cant pitch for you since they are hurt then let them go when they are starting to get into a flow (dotel being the exception since, i havent seen him pitch or cant remember seeing him, in which case i would be wrong). i dont know if there was anyone on the block that they yanks could have gotten. i am sure anyone can be traded if youare willing to pay and give up players. i dont know, none of us know really. i just disagree with picking up outfielders regardless of how great they are when you have a few already that are great themselves.   First of all, I'd just like to say I don't mean to be coming off like a dick. I'll tone it down in the future, I just like arguing about this stuff.I don't think you are giving the lidle addition the credit it deserves. The top of the rotation is solid. You can rely on Mussina and Wang. Johnson is a crap shoot but we are stuck with him. But Lidle is essentially Wright with the ability to go deeper into games. He knocked Wright from 4 to 5. Now you have three starters who can go really deep when they are on (Mussina, Wang, Lidle), one who you can usually count on for 6 innings, sometimes more, and a fifth starter who will usually give you 5 strong innings.Cashman got Lidle and Abreu for literally nothing. Would it really have been worth it on top of that to  give up some solid prospects for a pitcher as good as Wright who can give you one or two more innings? Would that kind of upgrade be worth the premium that decent pitching is demanding, even assuming it was available?

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 08:03 PM

Oh, shit.

HBox

08-18-2006, 08:05 PM

Jesus Christ. Say a prayer for the arms of Scott Proctor and Ron Villone.I guess Mo will have a 2 inning save if they escape this inning with the lead.

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 08:06 PM

OK. The good news is this... considering Farnsworth didn't fall down screaming in pain, and considering that the ball hit Farnsworth on the unplanted leg, and considering that the ball didn't hit him with that much speed, best hope is that it's a bruised leg and he's day to day. 

This message was edited by Tenbatsuzen on 8-19-06 @ 12:06 AM

HBox

08-18-2006, 08:07 PM

I hope that Octavio Dotel finds his stuff quickly.

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 08:12 PM

HBox wrote: I hope that Octavio Dotel finds his stuff quickly.    This is karma biting me in the ass for chuckling about how the Boston bullpen was getting burned through. BTW, Jason Johnson was DFA'd.

HBox

08-18-2006, 08:15 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: HBox wrote: I hope that Octavio Dotel finds his stuff quickly. This is karma biting me in the ass for chuckling about how the Boston bullpen was getting burned through. BTW, Jason Johnson was DFA'd.   We can only hope Sidney ponson meets the same fate.

TheGameHHH

08-18-2006, 08:22 PM

I hate the fact that I'm in florida right now and can't watch this
game. I caught the first game on ESPN, but I hate missing such a huge
series.

HBox

08-18-2006, 08:32 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: I hate the fact that I'm in florida right now and can't watch this
game. I caught the first game on ESPN, but I hate missing such a huge
series. 
  They've already started airing this game on Yankees Classics two hours ago.

HBox

08-18-2006, 08:34 PM

Alright, I get it now. They're trying to assassinate our bullpen.

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 08:42 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: I hate the fact that I'm in florida right now and can't watch this
game. I caught the first game on ESPN, but I hate missing such a huge
series. 
   ...you don't have XM? And I'm pretty sure that there's a Yankees broadcast in Florida.  What part are you in?  The Network reaches down there.

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 08:47 PM

Waldman reports X-Rays were negative, it's just a contusion to Farnsworth, he's day to day, that terrible awful negro. And Yankees games are available on 1010 AM in Tampa, which can reach Orlando.

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 08:53 PM

TheGameHHH - the game tomorrow at 1:30 is on Fox, available on all Fox stations in Florida.  The game on Sunday is the ESPN game.  So technically, if you're not in Central Florida, the only game you'd be missing is Monday's.

HBox

08-18-2006, 08:53 PM

Today ruled.

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 08:55 PM

HBox wrote: Today ruled.    Quoted for truth.  Two good games, good R&F show, hysterical O&A show.  Between the SoaP bit, the mmm-mmm Nazi Taxi Challenge, the Yankees embarassing the sox in Game 1, and coming from behind in Game 2, I can go to sleep with a smile on my face.

TheMojoPin

08-18-2006, 08:55 PM

Holy shit, something actually felled Farnsworth?!?Man, New York totally pussified him.

TheGameHHH

08-18-2006, 09:04 PM

Tenbats, here's the deal.....First off, no XM. Secondly, I'm
about 20 minutes north of West Palm right now, I wasn't aware I might
be able to catch the game on 1010 AM. I'll miss tomorrows game because
we're driving down to Miami to catch the Marlins/Braves game and then
for a night of partying in South Beach, so even though the Yanks will
be national I won't see it. We'll be able to watch Sundays game, and
I'm flying home at noon on monday. So I'll only miss two out of five,
which ain't too bad.

East Side Dave

08-18-2006, 09:07 PM

i was drunk and passed out at 11. can someone give a re-cap of Game 2? yankee plane flies high; yankee tugboat: toot-toot!

TheGameHHH

08-18-2006, 09:09 PM

ESD, Yankees won, there's your re-cap.

Tenbatsuzen

08-18-2006, 09:19 PM

East Side Dave wrote: i was drunk and passed out at 11. can someone give a re-cap of Game 2? yankee plane flies high; yankee tugboat: toot-toot!   Yankees were up big, but then Ponson fell apart, and then Villone let up some runs too.  Yankees were down 10-7, and then they had a 7 run 7th inning. Farmsworth took a batted ball off the side of his knee, but it's just a contusion, he's day to day. Yankees up 3 1/2.

East Side Dave

08-18-2006, 09:33 PM

thanks, matty. thanks GameHHH, appreciate it. now i'm happy. happy like a litttle bear. with honey.   and meat     thanks, guys edit:fucked upmypost  Tenbatsuzen wrote:   East Side Dave wrote: i was drunk and passed out at 11. can someone give a re-cap of Game 2? yankee plane flies high; yankee tugboat: toot-toot! thanks, matty. thanks GameHHH, appreciate it. now i'm happy. happy like a litttle bear. with honey.   and meat     thanks, guys Yankees were up big, but then Ponson fell apart, and then Villone let up some runs too.  Yankees were down 10-7, and then they had a 7 run 7th inning. Farmsworth took a batted ball off the side of his knee, but it's just a contusion, he's day to day. Yankees up 3 1/2.  

This message was edited by East Side Dave on 8-19-06 @ 1:36 AM

crb1

08-19-2006, 06:42 AM

I'm glad they pulled out the 2nd game, but I fell asleep before it was over.  They always play marathons.  On a side note, I caught a lot of game 1 and a good part of game 2 on XM, and I liked the Red Sox announcers quite a bit.  Very informative, but laid back broadcast.

Tenbatsuzen

08-19-2006, 09:47 AM

Here's a thought... Since Melky is only making 350K per year, what do you think the possibilities are of the Yankees trading Shef in the off-season for pitching, in return for picking up a portion of his contract?

TheGameHHH

08-19-2006, 10:06 AM

I think since Sheff has been taking practice at first base that what
they'll do is keep Melk around next season in a Bernie-type role as a
4th outfielder.

Tenbatsuzen

08-19-2006, 10:28 AM

TheGameHHH wrote: I think since Sheff has been taking practice at first base that what
they'll do is keep Melk around next season in a Bernie-type role as a
4th outfielder. 
   You can't do that to a young player who has shown as much promise as Melky has.  He's not a Miguel Cairo type role player.  It would absolutely retard the progress he's made so far.  Hell, we don't even have a guarantee that Bernie is going to retire, considering how well he's played this year. I would much rather trade Sheffield and take the money hit than dealing with his antics.  He's on the downside. Remember what happened with Mel Hall and Bernie?  I don't want the same thing happening with Sheffield and Melky.

HeyGuy

08-19-2006, 10:36 AM

isnt sheff a free agent after this year? How will they trade him if he is?

RingWraith

08-19-2006, 10:44 AM

Tenbatsuzen wrote:  TheGameHHH wrote: I think since Sheff has been taking practice at first base that what they'll do is keep Melk around next season in a Bernie-type role as a 4th outfielder.    You can't do that to a young player who has shown as much promise as Melky has.  He's not a Miguel Cairo type role player.  It would absolutely retard the progress he's made so far.  Hell, we don't even have a guarantee that Bernie is going to retire, considering how well he's played this year. I would much rather trade Sheffield and take the money hit than dealing with his antics.  He's on the downside. Remember what happened with Mel Hall and Bernie?  I don't want the same thing happening with Sheffield and Melky.    Well you still have Matsui, Damon and Abreu.  Outfield is a bit crowded.  But I'm not complaining.

Tenbatsuzen

08-19-2006, 11:22 AM

CampoNJ wrote: isnt sheff a free agent after this year? How will they trade him if he is?   You're right, I just checked.  I thought he had one more year, he actually has only an option for 2007 that will probably not be picked up.  I think the Yankees would rather want Melky as a 1B option than Sheffield.

Tenbatsuzen

08-19-2006, 11:26 AM

At this point, is either Sheff or Matsui options for the post season?  You need a 25 man roster, and Sheff nor Matsui have ever made rehab starts.

Bulldogcakes

08-19-2006, 11:33 AM

Actually, chances are they WILL pick up his option, and here's why. THe free agent market this year is pretty thin on outfielders, and will be even thinner if Soriano re-signs with The Nats, as has been reported he will. THere are at least 3 teams looking for a outfielder with pop like Sheff. If he comes back in September and shows he's healthy, expect the Yanks to p/u his option and trade him in the off season. If he doesn't come back, or does but doesn't play well, it gets trickier. Then they could p/u his option and hope he plays well in spring training and deal him then. But now its getting riskier because you have to pick up his option around the end of this season. So you'd be crossing your fingers that he'll be OK.

Bulldogcakes

08-19-2006, 11:35 AM

A-Rod will probably be Becketts last batter. He's at 116 pitches in the 5th. As thin as our bullpen is today, Its my understanding Boston's is worse. Still confident about getting this one.       

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 8-19-06 @ 3:37 PM

Bulldogcakes

08-19-2006, 11:48 AM

Posada!! 10-5 Yanks! on a side note, McCarver (who I hate) and Kenny Albert are awful. They have zero chemistry and sound like they're both double parked.

BandofBrothers

08-19-2006, 11:56 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Actually, chances are they WILL pick up his option, and here's why. THe free agent market this year is pretty thin on outfielders, and will be even thinner if Soriano re-signs with The Nats, as has been reported he will. THere are at least 3 teams looking for a outfielder with pop like Sheff. If he comes back in September and shows he's healthy, expect the Yanks to p/u his option and trade him in the off season. If he doesn't come back, or does but doesn't play well, it gets trickier. Then they could p/u his option and hope he plays well in spring training and deal him then. But now its getting riskier because you have to pick up his option around the end of this season. So you'd be crossing your fingers that he'll be OK.   I don't agree with this Sheff point, because I think the Yanks will instead decline the option and offer arbitration. Back in the day, Sheffield forced the Braves hand when the Yanks suddenly "announced" that they were going to look at other players because their deal with Sheffield was supposedly falling apart. The Braves got a case of cold feet and refused to offer arbitration because they feared him accepting it and taking away their payroll flexibility. The Yanks have no such worries. The Yanks can lowball Sheffield in arbitration easily. If you are Sheffield's agent, are you going to want to say he is worth a raise coming off a season where he did NOT hit even 15 HR, was not even close to 100 RBI's and missed more than half the season- and the team still won without him. That's not a winning case. It is VERY important to remember in arbitration that the arbitrator has two choices- the player's demand or the team's demand- he must chose one or the other. Given Sheffield's 2006 season, he has no case for a raise, and the Yanks have a good one for a pay cut. To put it bluntly, Sheffield isn't representing himself this time around. And now the Yankees hold even more leverage since the maximum paycut rule doesn't apply to (potential) free agents, only to players still in their arbitration-eligible years. So the Yankees can go as far below $13M as they want (within reason of winning their case). His agent is going to tell him like it is- if the Yanks offer arbitration, and he accepts it, he had better be prepared to take a huge pay cut- something that won't go over well with Sheff. His agent will also tell him that this will likely be his last chance to get a longer term deal (2-3 years).  Page 67 of the CBA (page 78 under the adobe formatting) says that doesn't apply to free agent arbitration. If the Player accepts the offer to arbitrate, he shall be a signed player for the next season and the parties will conduct a salary arbitration proceeding under Article VI, provided, however, that the rules concerning maximum salary reduction set forth in Article VI shall be inapplicable and the parties shall be required to exchange figures on the last day established for the exchange of salary arbitration figures under Article VI. The reason is quite simple- Sheffield is already in his late 30's and won't get younger. Even if he accepts arbitration, he will either be a DH or 1B, or some combination of both. In either case, he would no longer be a power hitting corner OF. That would limit his options later- only AL teams have a DH, and its not clear he is a 1B. The agent would have to honestly tell him that he will have to sell himself as Gary Sheffield the RF to get paid. That means taking a slightly smaller salary in 2007, but only if he gets a contract guarantee for 2008 and maybe 2009 as an OF- because he won't make that same money- and might not even get more than a one-year deal in 2008 if he's a 1B/DH. The Yanks hold the cards here- they will offer arbitration- but it doesn't matter to them whether he accepts of not. If he accepts, their winter shopping f

HBox

08-19-2006, 12:02 PM

Does anyone really think that Sheffield would take any of this lying down? When there were rumors last year that the Yanks were considering trading Sheffield he opened his mouth and made sure to short circuit everything. I cringe to think what he would do if the Yanks tried to lowball him in arbitration.If they let Sheffield go they can fit Melky in the lineup. Giambi and Matsui can split the majority of the DH time. Maybe Matsui can play a little 1B. There are options.

TheGameHHH

08-19-2006, 12:30 PM

I'm not really sure I understand what all of you are saying and here's
why: First, if the Yanks had no interest in keeping Sheff around, why
would they start working him out at first base? Secondly, what is all
this talk around here of putting up with Sheff and "his antics". Since
he has worn pinstipres I've barely heard a peep out of him, the man
shows up everyday ready to play and gives his all, thats all I ask for
in a player. Third, is it even possible to go to arbitration when it's
the club's option to accept or deny the last year of a contract? I need
some answers here.

Tenbatsuzen

08-19-2006, 12:46 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: THe free agent market this year is pretty thin on outfielders, and will be even thinner if Soriano re-signs with The Nats, as has been reported he will. THere are at least 3 teams looking for a outfielder with pop like Sheff. If he comes back in September and shows he's healthy, expect the Yanks to p/u his option and trade him in the off season.    1) You don't put a player you're trying to re-sign on waivers.  It's not a show of good faith.2) Why would the Yankees pick up a huge option like that, just to trade him?  Any trade the Yankees would try to make would probably require them to pay a portion of the salary.

Tenbatsuzen

08-19-2006, 12:58 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: I'm not really sure I understand what all of you are saying and here's
why: First, if the Yanks had no interest in keeping Sheff around, why
would they start working him out at first base? Secondly, what is all
this talk around here of putting up with Sheff and "his antics". Since
he has worn pinstipres I've barely heard a peep out of him, the man
shows up everyday ready to play and gives his all, thats all I ask for
in a player. Third, is it even possible to go to arbitration when it's
the club's option to accept or deny the last year of a contract? I need
some answers here. 
 Key thing here: The YANKEES didn't start working out Sheffield at first base - SHEFFIELD started working out at first base w/o anyone asking him to. Sheffield knows that Steinbrenner was the one who wanted him signed in the first place, and it was out of Cashman's hands. It's a brilliant move on Sheffield's part. He sees the writing on the wall with how crowded the outfield is AND how well the Yankees have been playing without him. He wants Steinbrenner to see him as a "team player", and also maybe get a chance to prove to be valuable in the post season, because as he's stated time and time again, THE ONLY THING HE WANTS IS A RING. The problem with this logic is that the Yankees already have a defensive backup at 1B for the post season in Craig Wilson, and you don't put someone who's learning a new position in during the post season. Spring training? April? May? Sure. October? No fucking way. This "first base" strategy is purely a method for Sheffield to try and get his cash-rich option picked up, after a season where he didn't produce, and several seasons where he caused drama in the Yankee lockerroom. Game, Sheffield is villified because he ISN'T seen as a team player. The reason why you saw this article when Abreu came to the Yankees as a big deal is exactly that - Sheffield sees the writing on the wall. I will be shocked if the Yankees pick up his option. They don't need him. 

This message was edited by Tenbatsuzen on 8-19-06 @ 5:00 PM

BandofBrothers

08-19-2006, 02:07 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: TheGameHHH wrote: I'm not really sure I understand what all of you are saying and here's
why: First, if the Yanks had no interest in keeping Sheff around, why
would they start working him out at first base? Secondly, what is all
this talk around here of putting up with Sheff and "his antics". Since
he has worn pinstipres I've barely heard a peep out of him, the man
shows up everyday ready to play and gives his all, thats all I ask for
in a player. Third, is it even possible to go to arbitration when it's
the club's option to accept or deny the last year of a contract? I need
some answers here. 
 Key thing here: The YANKEES didn't start working out Sheffield at first base - SHEFFIELD started working out at first base w/o anyone asking him to. Sheffield knows that Steinbrenner was the one who wanted him signed in the first place, and it was out of Cashman's hands. It's a brilliant move on Sheffield's part. He sees the writing on the wall with how crowded the outfield is AND how well the Yankees have been playing without him. He wants Steinbrenner to see him as a "team player", and also maybe get a chance to prove to be valuable in the post season, because as he's stated time and time again, THE ONLY THING HE WANTS IS A RING. The problem with this logic is that the Yankees already have a defensive backup at 1B for the post season in Craig Wilson, and you don't put someone who's learning a new position in during the post season. Spring training? April? May? Sure. October? No fucking way. This "first base" strategy is purely a method for Sheffield to try and get his cash-rich option picked up, after a season where he didn't produce, and several seasons where he caused drama in the Yankee lockerroom. Game, Sheffield is villified because he ISN'T seen as a team player. The reason why you saw this article when Abreu came to the Yankees as a big deal is exactly that - Sheffield sees the writing on the wall. I will be shocked if the Yankees pick up his option. They don't need him. 

This message was edited by Tenbatsuzen on 8-19-06 @ 5:00 PM  Exactly. Because accepting arbitration only allows, I think, for 1 year contracts, Sheff will most likely decline arbitration and bring about 2 draft picks as an A free agent. It's an inevitable part of the business, and hopefully, the Yankees and Sheff see it that way. On the same note, by offering arbitration to Craig Wilson, who also seems on the path of an A  free agent ranking, the Yankees can be guaranteed another player who will decline. However he'll only become an A free agent if he gets a lot of playing time this year, so Sheff playing at 1st may derail this. I follow the Yankees farm system very closely, and the past couple very successful drafts will show great dividends soon. Thus, these four 1st round draft picks are needed to continue restoring the Yankee farm system that has seen a revival in recent years with Cano, Wang, and Cabrera. Although those three were all acquired from the international market at relatively modest costs, the Yankees have also fortified the domestic market with soon to arrive stud pitcher Philip Hughes as well as an extremely strong presence in Latin America with the likes of Jose Tabata and newcomer Jesus Montero. Although some may say the minor leagues are a crap shoot, I rather have the Yankees invest more in a dozen high upside farmhands than say give a single journeyman $7 million to be the 4th or 5th starter. Then not only do the yankees have better odds for a deep talent pool to draw forth new Yankees, there are many new valuable trade chips available for pressing needs. ex. Bobby Abreu <blockquote />

Tenbatsuzen

08-19-2006, 02:48 PM

See the guy posting above me?  He's smart.  I'd listen to him.

lleeder

08-19-2006, 02:54 PM

I hope Melky gets his at bats next year. I love that guy he has the "it factor" in my opinion. I bet he'd play first if they taught him.

y2biz

08-19-2006, 02:57 PM

After what you have seen from Melky Cabrera in the past three months. Why would you even think about Sheffield coming back to the Bronx in'07

This message was edited by y2biz on 8-19-06 @ 6:58 PM

Tenbatsuzen

08-19-2006, 03:00 PM

Band of Brothers - Since the Yankees hold all the cards AND they value young player development, why would they even bother with arbitration to Sheff?  Just the belief that he'll say no and get the draft picks?  Melky's already looking at reduced playing time once Matsui comes back.  If Sheffield calls the Yankees bluff, then his playing time is reduced even more.  Sheff will be all smiles once he signs a deal, but then when push comes to shove, he'll start yelling about how he's an outfielder, blah blah blah.  We don't even have a guarantee this first base experiment will work out - see Piazza, Mike.  Torre has always been huge on "clubhouse chemistry" - and Sheffield is not an ingredient in that mix.  That's why I think they'd just part ways. and...Would Steinbrenner be actually insane enough to try and sign Soriano if he even sniffs at the Mets of the Red Sox?

BandofBrothers

08-19-2006, 03:09 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: Band of Brothers - Since the Yankees hold all the cards AND they value young player development, why would they even bother with arbitration to Sheff? Just the belief that he'll say no and get the draft picks? Melky's already looking at reduced playing time once Matsui comes back. If Sheffield calls the Yankees bluff, then his playing time is reduced even more. Sheff will be all smiles once he signs a deal, but then when push comes to shove, he'll start yelling about how he's an outfielder, blah blah blah. We don't even have a guarantee this first base experiment will work out - see Piazza, Mike. Torre has always been huge on "clubhouse chemistry" - and Sheffield is not an ingredient in that mix. That's why I think they'd just part ways. and...Would Steinbrenner be actually insane enough to try and sign Soriano if he even sniffs at the Mets of the Red Sox? The Yanks can make this really simple for Sheffield. They can tell him
in the 15 day exclusive window after the World Series that they will
not exercise his option. Then they can tell him they will offer
arbitration, but that if he accepts it, they plan on asking for
anywhere from a 25-50% cut in his salary. 
 
Even the most stubborn agent would realize that it would be absolute
folly to ask for a raise, or even anything close to $13M, based on last
season. The agent would have to be honest with Sheffield and tell him
to decline. Generally negotiations to decline arbitration are agreed upon before the actual offer, and if Sheff somehow accepts... it will be a extreme display of poor faith. 
 
Of course, the Yanks won't put out word of their intentions, and the
agent will spin it as "preserving his client's best options by allowing
him to continue negotiating with the Yankees, while shopping him to all
bidders." 
 
In the end, Sheffield will sign elsewhere and everyone will be happier for it. Additionally, he's said that he wants to play 3 more years. If he returns in
September and looks good, I think there is a good chance that a team
would be willing to give him a 2 year deal, maybe with an option year.
If the Yankees are only willing to commit a single,
arbitrationally-awarded season to him then I can see him leaving. 
 
If he comes back and looks terrible then arbitration might be too
risky. If he looks great and actually plays some 1B, the Yankees might
actually want him back.As you mentioned, Sheff is a complete wildcard as a person can get... but it has been done before routinely with many other players. 
 
I'm just hoping he leaves and they get picks. 

This message was edited by BandofBrothers on 8-19-06 @ 7:13 PM

lleeder

08-19-2006, 03:11 PM

R u Mike Lupica your posts are hella long?

Don Stugots

08-19-2006, 05:53 PM

lleeder wrote: R u Mike Lupica your posts are hella long? i like it, keep em coming i am learning stuff over here.

TheMojoPin

08-19-2006, 08:09 PM

Remember, this is the team that apparently never even thought to put A-Rod at SS.

FezPaul

08-19-2006, 08:13 PM

BandofBrothers wrote:        The agent would have to be honest  <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/lol.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/lol.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/lol.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/lol.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/lol.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/lol.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/lol.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/lol.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/lol.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/lol.gif" border="0" />

Tenbatsuzen

08-19-2006, 08:21 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: Remember, this is the team that apparently never even thought to put A-Rod at SS.    ...because they had a perfectly excellent short stop who was the captain of the team and had four rings and had no reason, whatsoever, to give up his spot?

TheMojoPin

08-19-2006, 08:49 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote:  TheMojoPin wrote: Remember, this is the team that apparently never even thought to put A-Rod at SS.     ...because they had a perfectly excellent short stop who was the captain of the team and had four rings and had no reason, whatsoever, to give up his spot?  Jeter's an excellent SS.A-Rod was and is better.If Jeter was such a good captain, he'd have realized that and opted to move to 3rd or 2nd instead for the good of the team.I have no grudge or "hate" for the Yankees.  I've just always thought that was a pretty stupid move.

spoon

08-19-2006, 11:26 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote:  Bulldogcakes wrote: THe free agent market this year is pretty thin on outfielders, and will be even thinner if Soriano re-signs with The Nats, as has been reported he will. THere are at least 3 teams looking for a outfielder with pop like Sheff. If he comes back in September and shows he's healthy, expect the Yanks to p/u his option and trade him in the off season.    1) You don't put a player you're trying to re-sign on waivers.  It's not a show of good faith.2) Why would the Yankees pick up a huge option like that, just to trade him?  Any trade the Yankees would try to make would probably require them to pay a portion of the salary. Not true.  Teams often put half their team on waivers just to see if they get any takers and feel out what they can possibly get for them.  It happens every year. Still, I doubt Shef will be picked up by the yanks next year but who knows?  ALso, arb will include his overall body of work so he wouldn't take the hiu suggest, even though HHH is right that we wouldn't go their if the option wasn't picked up.  He'd simply be a free agent.

spoon

08-19-2006, 11:33 PM

BandofBrothers wrote:  Tenbatsuzen wrote:  [quote]TheGameHHH wrote: I'm not really sure I understand what all of you are saying and here's why: First, if the Yanks had no interest in keeping Sheff around, why would they start working him out at first base? Secondly, what is all this talk around here of putting up with Sheff and "his antics". Since he has worn pinstipres I've barely heard a peep out of him, the man shows up everyday ready to play and gives his all, thats all I ask for in a player. Third, is it even possible to go to arbitration when it's the club's option to accept or deny the last year of a contract? I need some answers here.    Key thing here: The YANKEES didn't start working out Sheffield at first base - SHEFFIELD started working out at first base w/o anyone asking him to. Sheffield knows that Steinbrenner was the one who wanted him signed in the first place, and it was out of Cashman's hands. It's a brilliant move on Sheffield's part. He sees the writing on the wall with how crowded the outfield is AND how well the Yankees have been playing without him. He wants Steinbrenner to see him as a "team player", and also maybe get a chance to prove to be valuable in the post season, because as he's stated time and time again, THE ONLY THING HE WANTS IS A RING. The problem with this logic is that the Yankees already have a defensive backup at 1B for the post season in Craig Wilson, and you don't put someone who's learning a new position in during the post season. Spring training? April? May? Sure. October? No fucking way.  This "first base" strategy is purely a method for Sheffield to try and get his cash-rich option picked up, after a season where he didn't produce, and several seasons where he caused drama in the Yankee lockerroom.  Game, Sheffield is villified because he ISN'T seen as a team player. The reason why you saw this article when Abreu came to the Yankees as a big deal is exactly that - Sheffield sees the writing on the wall. I will be shocked if the Yankees pick up his option. They don't need him. This message was edited by Tenbatsuzen on 8-19-06 @ 5:00 PM Exactly. Because accepting arbitration only allows, I think, for 1 year contracts, Sheff will most likely decline arbitration and bring about 2 draft picks as an A free agent. It's an inevitable part of the business, and hopefully, the Yankees and Sheff see it that way. On the same note, by offering arbitration to Craig Wilson, who also seems on the path of an A  free agent ranking, the Yankees can be guaranteed another player who will decline. However he'll only become an A free agent if he gets a lot of playing time this year, so Sheff playing at 1st may derail this. I follow the Yankees farm system very closely, and the past couple very successful drafts will show great dividends soon. Thus, these four 1st round draft picks are needed to continue restoring the Yankee farm system that has seen a revival in recent years with Cano, Wang, and Cabrera. Although those three were all acquired from the international market at relatively modest costs, the Yankees have also fortified the domestic market with soon to arrive stud pitcher Philip Hughes as well as an extremely strong presence in Latin America with the likes of Jose Tabata and newcomer Jesus Montero. Although some may say the minor leagues are a crap shoot, I rather have the Yankees invest more in a dozen high upside farmhands than say give a single journeyman $7 million to be the 4th or 5th starter. Then not only do the yankees have better odds for a deep talent pool to draw forth new Yankees, there are many new valuable trade chips available for pressing needs. ex. Bobby Abreu

HBox

08-20-2006, 12:18 AM

That's the thing, Cano, Wang and Melk weren't
draft picks they were bought at levels 90% of teams can't match for
their minor leagues.You can't just say that. Post some numbers for the Cano and Cabrera signings. And then we can debate something. You just can't write off every single Yankee signing as "Oh, they have money. They deserve no credit." Where was all the hype for Cano and Cabrera? If they were such studs, if they were such obvious can't miss prospects as to nullify any need for scouting where was the hype? Why didn't either of these guys make a blip anywhere on top 100 prospect lists?

spoon

08-20-2006, 02:26 AM

HBox wrote:  That's the thing, Cano, Wang and Melk weren't draft picks they were bought at levels 90% of teams can't match for their minor leagues.  You can't just say that. Post some numbers for the Cano and Cabrera signings. And then we can debate something. You just can't write off every single Yankee signing as "Oh, they have money. They deserve no credit." Where was all the hype for Cano and Cabrera? If they were such studs, if they were such obvious can't miss prospects as to nullify any need for scouting where was the hype? Why didn't either of these guys make a blip anywhere on top 100 prospect lists?It's simple and numbers aren't even needed. No matter what level of international prospect they are/were (future signings/those in question now), if the yankees want them, they get them with the ability to outbid any other team.  Sure they can't do it with every player, but enough to fill their roster with way more ability them any other.  So in essence, the yankees have a monopoly of sorts at every fucking level of the game but the draft.  Mind you, it's the only level that really has a stable system in place to grant parity.  Yet, some teams can't even sign their first round picks now bc they can't match salary for such high prospects with a team already under the financial gun.  Another major issue. The whole issue boiled down simply is that the league (MLB) as a whole is the product, not the yankee/red sox race.  However, the leauge as a whole is a mess and it relies so heavly on teams such as the yankees bc there rarely will ever be another George Brett in KC or Robin Yount in Mil.  Not only will most teams never keep their stars and create an identity for those teams, most end up on the same few teams, especially the yankees.  Quite simply, MLB created it's own mess and I assure you that many people feel this way. Just not in NY where both teams have money.  The AL East is about to finish the same exact way for the 9th fucking year.  Good system right?  I guess the Sox and yanks just "draft" so much better and have great "competitive" owners?  Even the Sox are hitting their financial tap out point as NYY continue to add at any point over and over again.  It's not about yankee hate created by competition, it about yankee hate brought about by ignorant fans, arrogant owners, and league fleecing GMs allowed by terrible commisioners with no balls.  Monopoly, not dynasty.  Go PSE&G!  How do they make the most money in NJ every year?  

This message was edited by spoon on 8-20-06 @ 6:33 AM

Don Stugots

08-20-2006, 03:17 AM

crb1

08-20-2006, 03:33 AM

spoon wrote: Not true.  Teams often put half their team on waivers just to see if they get any takers and feel out what they can possibly get for them.  It happens every year. Still, I doubt Shef will be picked up by the yanks next year but who knows?  ALso, arb will include his overall body of work so he wouldn't take the hiu suggest, even though HHH is right that we wouldn't go their if the option wasn't picked up.  He'd simply be a free agent.I agree with spoon on both points here.  The post deadline waiver process is confidental and many teams run most, or even all, of their players through waivers just in case.  It's a no risk move, since they can pull them back from waivers if they're claimed.And from what I've always read, arbitration is based heavily upon service time, not performance.  So, the longer you play, the more money you make.  It's the major fault of the arbitration process, and Sheff is almost certain to get a raise from a mediator.  I think if the Yanks offer, he will accept.  If he asks for $14 million, and the Yanks try to cut him to $10, I would expect Sheff to win.  I'm not saying it's fair, but it is often how the cases play out.  In fact, I think it may not even be possible to get a pay cut if you go through the arb process.  It may be that you get a raise, since you've accumulated more service time.  Not sure on that though.If you watch the off season moves, you'll notice that very few teams take their players to arbitration anymore because it's so tough to keep them from getting a big raise.  I think there were only something like 3 arb-eligible players that actually made it to a hearing last off season (maybe less).

This message was edited by crb1 on 8-20-06 @ 8:20 AM

crb1

08-20-2006, 03:59 AM

spoon wrote: It's simple and numbers aren't even needed. No matter what level of international prospect they are/were (future signings/those in question now), if the yankees want them, they get them with the ability to outbid any other team.  Sure they can't do it with every player, but enough to fill their roster with way more ability them any other.  So in essence, the yankees have a monopoly of sorts at every fucking level of the game but the draft.  Mind you, it's the only level that really has a stable system in place to grant parity.  Yet, some teams can't even sign their first round picks now bc they can't match salary for such high prospects with a team already under the financial gun.  Another major issue. The whole issue boiled down simply is that the league (MLB) as a whole is the product, not the yankee/red sox race.  However, the leauge as a whole is a mess and it relies so heavly on teams such as the yankees bc there rarely will ever be another George Brett in KC or Robin Yount in Mil.  Not only will most teams never keep their stars and create an identity for those teams, most end up on the same few teams, especially the yankees.  Quite simply, MLB created it's own mess and I assure you that many people feel this way. Just not in NY where both teams have money.  The AL East is about to finish the same exact way for the 9th fucking year.  Good system right?  I guess the Sox and yanks just "draft" so much better and have great "competitive" owners?  Even the Sox are hitting their financial tap out point as NYY continue to add at any point over and over again.  It's not about yankee hate created by competition, it about yankee hate brought about by ignorant fans, arrogant owners, and league fleecing GMs allowed by terrible commisioners with no balls.  Monopoly, not dynasty.  Go PSE&G!  How do they make the most money in NJ every year?  This message was edited by spoon on 8-20-06 @ 6:33 AM That's not entirely accurate.  At the int'l level, there are thousands of players to scout, and many of them can be signed relatively cheaply.  I would challenge to find a roster not heavy with international players, all signed outside any draft process.  Money helps, but you need to have good scouts to pull the best players out of the pack.  I don't think there's a major league team that can't afford the same contracts that the Yanks have paid.  I think there are teams that do a better job than they do in the int'l scouting anyway (the Dodgers and Marlins would be two of them).A team like the Marlins shouldn't even exist with a $15 million payroll.  I'm relatively certain (but to lazy to check) that they received close to, or more, than that from revenue sharing.  If you want to somehow add parity to the league, fine, but start by slicing off a few dead weight teams (I mean you too, KC!).  Some teams are run in a way to simply make money, without concern for winning and the fanbase.  Google some old article on Lou Pinella's exit from Seattle.  The president (Chuck Armstrong, I think) said in an interview that he only cared about making a profit and not winning.  Lou found out, got pissed, and the relationship with the club was over from that point.Right now, the luxury tax has kept every team except the Yanks at about a $120 threshold.  I think most teams avoid going over that because the tax kicks in around there.  I think it was $117 million, but it may have changed.  If you want to curb spending then increasing the luxury tax over a certain threshold may help, but I'm not sure how the union will respond to that.A salary cap in baseball would never get throught the union, and virtually assure a work stoppage.  Plus, caps are bullshit.  The biggest net result is a team making windfall profits t

Bulldogcakes

08-20-2006, 04:34 AM

HBox wrote: If they let Sheffield go they can fit Melky in the lineup. Giambi and Matsui can split the majority of the DH time. Maybe Matsui can play a little 1B. There are options.   Not likely. Next years outfield w/o Sheff is Matsui, Damon, Abreau. Even with giving guys half a day off as a DH here and there he wouldn't get many ABs. Unless someone gets injured, which usually someone does. Plus Melky's cheap (350k) so he's ideal for the role.  The one who's out in the cold is Bernie, I hate to say. Unless he wants to do the Ruben Sierra PH deal. And for his career he's been lousy as a PH, though he hasn't had many ABs.

Bulldogcakes

08-20-2006, 04:43 AM

TheGameHHH wrote: I'm not really sure I understand what all of you are saying and here's
why: First, if the Yanks had no interest in keeping Sheff around, why
would they start working him out at first base? 
 The first base thing is a canard. Remember, they want to TRADE him. So lets walk through this. If you have a guy making 13 mil and already have 3 OF's plus a 4th in Melky you are trying to make a trade with your back to the wall. What kind of bargaining position are you in? People will figure the Yanks are dying to get rid of him once they p/u that option, and will offer nothing. If the Yanks do p/u the option, I would expect Cashman would already have a deal in place and he would go immediately thereafter.  Secondly, what is all
this talk around here of putting up with Sheff and "his antics". Since
he has worn pinstipres I've barely heard a peep out of him Do you ever read newspapers? I dont know where youve been the last 3 spring trainings.

Bulldogcakes

08-20-2006, 04:47 AM

Tenbatsuzen wrote:1) You don't put a player you're trying to re-sign on waivers. It's not a show of good faith.2) Why would the Yankees pick up a huge option like that, just to trade him? Any trade the Yankees would try to make would probably require them to pay a portion of the salary. They're not trying to re-sign him. Theyre picking up an option. And the waiver wire is meaningless. He makes 13 mil and is on the DL. Nobody in their right mind would take him until they see him play. Its called a sign and trade. As far as picking up salary goes, the more the Yankees p/u the more they get back in prospects. Thats why they got Abreau and Lidle so cheap, they assumed both salaries completely and were the only team willing to do so. <a href="http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/yanks_mull_sign_and_trade_with_sheffield_yankees_j oel_sherman.htm" target="_self" title="BTW- I didn't just pull this out of my ass, you know ">BTW- I didn't just pull this out of my ass, you know </a>   

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 8-20-06 @ 9:01 AM

Bulldogcakes

08-20-2006, 04:53 AM

lleeder wrote: I hope Melky gets his at bats next year. I love that guy he has the "it factor" in my opinion. I bet he'd play first if they taught him.  Me too. I love the effect he and Abreau have had on the lineup. They're not just taking a few walks and looking for the 3 run HR anymore. The building and extending rallies. The past few years they have been a feast or famine offense, and when they hit a dry spell they were screwed. Like in games 4-7 against the Bosox in 2004. I trust Melky to give me an intelligent AB every time he comes up. Thats all I ask of any player, and why A-Rod has ben so frustrating this year.  <blockquote />

Bulldogcakes

08-20-2006, 05:08 AM

HBox wrote:You can't just say that. Post some numbers for the Cano and Cabrera signings. And then we can debate something. You just can't write off every single Yankee signing as "Oh, they have money. They deserve no credit." Where was all the hype for Cano and Cabrera? If they were such studs, if they were such obvious can't miss prospects as to nullify any need for scouting where was the hype? Why didn't either of these guys make a blip anywhere on top 100 prospect lists?   H, when Yankee haters start crying about payroll, its because they know their season is lost, and they see the Yankee freight train rolling toward yet another championship. Dont get annoyed by it, be happy about it. It's a good sign for us.

BandofBrothers

08-20-2006, 05:13 AM

spoon wrote: BandofBrothers wrote: [quote]Tenbatsuzen wrote: [quote]TheGameHHH wrote: I'm not really sure I understand what all of you are saying and here's why: First, if the Yanks had no interest in keeping Sheff around, why would they start working him out at first base? Secondly, what is all this talk around here of putting up with Sheff and "his antics". Since he has worn pinstipres I've barely heard a peep out of him, the man shows up everyday ready to play and gives his all, thats all I ask for in a player. Third, is it even possible to go to arbitration when it's the club's option to accept or deny the last year of a contract? I need some answers here. Key thing here: The YANKEES didn't start working out Sheffield at first base - SHEFFIELD started working out at first base w/o anyone asking him to. Sheffield knows that Steinbrenner was the one who wanted him signed in the first place, and it was out of Cashman's hands. It's a brilliant move on Sheffield's part. He sees the writing on the wall with how crowded the outfield is AND how well the Yankees have been playing without him. He wants Steinbrenner to see him as a "team player", and also maybe get a chance to prove to be valuable in the post season, because as he's stated time and time again, THE ONLY THING HE WANTS IS A RING. The problem with this logic is that the Yankees already have a defensive backup at 1B for the post season in Craig Wilson, and you don't put someone who's learning a new position in during the post season. Spring training? April? May? Sure. October? No fucking way. This "first base" strategy is purely a method for Sheffield to try and get his cash-rich option picked up, after a season where he didn't produce, and several seasons where he caused drama in the Yankee lockerroom. Game, Sheffield is villified because he ISN'T seen as a team player. The reason why you saw this article when Abreu came to the Yankees as a big deal is exactly that - Sheffield sees the writing on the wall. I will be shocked if the Yankees pick up his option. They don't need him. This message was edited by Tenbatsuzen on 8-19-06 @ 5:00 PM Exactly. Because accepting arbitration only allows, I think, for 1 year contracts, Sheff will most likely decline arbitration and bring about 2 draft picks as an A free agent. It's an inevitable part of the business, and hopefully, the Yankees and Sheff see it that way. On the same note, by offering arbitration to Craig Wilson, who also seems on the path of an A free agent ranking, the Yankees can be guaranteed another player who will decline. However he'll only become an A free agent if he gets a lot of playing time this year, so Sheff playing at 1st may derail this. I follow the Yankees farm system very closely, and the past couple very successful drafts will show great dividends soon. Thus, these four 1st round draft picks are needed to continue restoring the Yankee farm system that has seen a revival in recent years with Cano, Wang, and Cabrera. Although those three were all acquired from the international market at relatively modest costs, the Yankees have also fortified the domestic market with soon to arrive stud pitcher Philip Hughes as well as an extremely strong presence in Latin America with the likes of Jose Tabata and newcomer Jesus Montero. Although some may say the minor leagues are a crap shoot, I rather have the Yankees invest more in a dozen high upside farmhands than say give a single journeyman $7 million to be the 4th or 5th starter. Then not only do the yankees have better odds for a deep talent pool to draw forth new Yankees, there are many new valuable trade chips available for pressing needs. ex.

BandofBrothers

08-20-2006, 05:20 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  Tenbatsuzen wrote: 1) You don't put a player you're trying to re-sign on waivers. It's not a show of good faith.2) Why would the Yankees pick up a huge option like that, just to trade him? Any trade the Yankees would try to make would probably require them to pay a portion of the salary.   They're not trying to re-sign him. Theyre picking up an option. And the waiver wire is meaningless. He makes 13 mil and is on the DL. Nobody in their right mind would take him until they see him play. Its called a sign and trade. As far as picking up salary goes, the more the Yankees p/u the more they get back in prospects. Thats why they got Abreau and Lidle so cheap, they assumed both salaries completely and were the only team willing to do so. <a title="BTW- I didn't just pull this out of my ass, you know " href="http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/yanks_mull_sign_and_trade_with_sheffield_yankees_j oel_sherman.htm" target="_self">BTW- I didn't just pull this out of my ass, you know </a>   This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 8-20-06 @ 9:01 AM  I'm not saying you're wrong but the fact of the matter is that in a trade the Yankees may be lucky to acquire a single "real" prospect whereas through arbitration they would be guaranteed two first round draft picks for whatever they're worth. I really hope it works out that way, because it's a cleaner process. The faster we lose Sheff to let a younger Melky find a spot on the team the better regardless of how well Sheff played for us.

HeyGuy

08-20-2006, 05:46 AM

I dont think the yanks will pick up shef. They may offer arbitration to get him at a bargain and then trade him but I dont think shef will accept that. He will just become a free agent and try to sign another 3 year deal. The problem with that, he may go to the sox. Unless the sox think willy mo pena is their right fielder next year, they may offer shef a 3 year deal. 1 to fuck the yanks and have a guy go to them like damon went to the yanks. 2, to get him off the yanks, 3 you will have an angry shef playing against a team hes pissed at. 4 so the yanks dont sign and trade him to get maybe pitching or anything to help the yanks improve.As for Melky. He has done a good job but come on he hasnt been as great as a lot of you have made him out to be. Hes not a power hitting OF, he has decent steals and runs scored but nothing spectacular. His Rbis are ok for the order in which he bats. And his defense has been great. But hes not nor has he been a great prospect for the yanks. I think he was always suppose to be a fill in player and never their future. I do think with him having a decent year they may trade him to a team who thinks he may be a good prospect. He reminds me a lot of Juan Riveria the difference is, riveria was a prospect with more pop. He is finally looking like the player they thought he could have been. But it has taken him like 5 years and 2 or 3 different teams since leaving the yanks.Lets all not blow melky up just because we are yanks fans. On any other team you wouldnt even know his name and no one looking at his #'s would be that impressed.

This message was edited by CampoNJ on 8-20-06 @ 9:51 AM

BandofBrothers

08-20-2006, 05:47 AM

BandofBrothers wrote:  spoon wrote: [quote]BandofBrothers wrote:  [quote]Tenbatsuzen wrote:  [quote]TheGameHHH wrote: I'm not really sure I understand what all of you are saying and here's why: First, if the Yanks had no interest in keeping Sheff around, why would they start working him out at first base? Secondly, what is all this talk around here of putting up with Sheff and "his antics". Since he has worn pinstipres I've barely heard a peep out of him, the man shows up everyday ready to play and gives his all, thats all I ask for in a player. Third, is it even possible to go to arbitration when it's the club's option to accept or deny the last year of a contract? I need some answers here.    Key thing here: The YANKEES didn't start working out Sheffield at first base - SHEFFIELD started working out at first base w/o anyone asking him to. Sheffield knows that Steinbrenner was the one who wanted him signed in the first place, and it was out of Cashman's hands. It's a brilliant move on Sheffield's part. He sees the writing on the wall with how crowded the outfield is AND how well the Yankees have been playing without him. He wants Steinbrenner to see him as a "team player", and also maybe get a chance to prove to be valuable in the post season, because as he's stated time and time again, THE ONLY THING HE WANTS IS A RING. The problem with this logic is that the Yankees already have a defensive backup at 1B for the post season in Craig Wilson, and you don't put someone who's learning a new position in during the post season. Spring training? April? May? Sure. October? No fucking way.  This "first base" strategy is purely a method for Sheffield to try and get his cash-rich option picked up, after a season where he didn't produce, and several seasons where he caused drama in the Yankee lockerroom.  Game, Sheffield is villified because he ISN'T seen as a team player. The reason why you saw this article when Abreu came to the Yankees as a big deal is exactly that - Sheffield sees the writing on the wall. I will be shocked if the Yankees pick up his option. They don't need him. This message was edited by Tenbatsuzen on 8-19-06 @ 5:00 PM Exactly. Because accepting arbitration only allows, I think, for 1 year contracts, Sheff will most likely decline arbitration and bring about 2 draft picks as an A free agent. It's an inevitable part of the business, and hopefully, the Yankees and Sheff see it that way. On the same note, by offering arbitration to Craig Wilson, who also seems on the path of an A free agent ranking, the Yankees can be guaranteed another player who will decline. However he'll only become an A free agent if he gets a lot of playing time this year, so Sheff playing at 1st may derail this. I follow the Yankees farm system very closely, and the past couple very successful drafts will show great dividends soon. Thus, these four 1st round draft picks are needed to continue restoring the Yankee farm system that has seen a revival in recent years with Cano, Wang, and Cabrera. Although those three were all acquired from the international market at relatively modest costs, the Yankees have also fortified the domestic market with soon to arrive stud pitcher Philip Hughes as well as an extremely strong presence in Latin America with the likes of Jose Tabata and newcomer Jesus Montero. Although some may say the minor leagues are a crap shoot, I rather have the Yankees invest more in a dozen high upside farmhands than say give a single journeyman $7 million to be the 4th or 5th starter. Then not only do the yankees have better odds for a deep ta

BandofBrothers

08-20-2006, 05:47 AM

Double post

This message was edited by BandofBrothers on 8-20-06 @ 9:50 AM

Bulldogcakes

08-20-2006, 06:09 AM

CampoNJ wrote: As for Melky. He has done a good job but come on he hasnt been as great as a lot of you have made him out to be. Hes not a power hitting OF, he has decent steals and runs scored but nothing spectacular. His Rbis are ok for the order in which he bats. And his defense has been great. But hes not nor has he been a great prospect for the yanks. I think he was always suppose to be a fill in player and never their future. I do think with him having a decent year they may trade him to a team who thinks he may be a good prospect. He reminds me a lot of Juan Riveria the difference is, riveria was a prospect with more pop. He is finally looking like the player they thought he could have been. But it has taken him like 5 years and 2 or 3 different teams since leaving the yanks.Lets all not blow melky up just because we are yanks fans. On any other team you wouldnt even know his name and no one looking at his #'s would be that impressed.

   First of all, Its not Melky's role to be a big RBI guy. Somebody has to get on base for the other guys to drive in, and he does that very well. Here's his stats in roughly half a season (89 games).291 BA.368 OBP59 runs scored96 hits Project that to a full season, its 100 runs scored and a little less than 200 hits.  Throw in the fact he leads the league in OF assists. Great arm.  Plus, he's 22 years old. He keeps getting better and he could be a terrific player.

Bulldogcakes

08-20-2006, 06:26 AM

Back to the games. . . .I really think that (despite the fact they had an off day and we didnt) that the doubleheader screwed up Boston more than us. Were deeper in the bullpen and they had their starters knocked out early in all 3 games so far. And their bullpen is a disaster right now. We were seeing pitchers (on both sides) that we'll never see in a playoff series. If they can get Paps and Timlin straightened out and if Foulke comes back healthy they'll be a very different team in a few weeks. The Yanks are clearly the better overall team, though. They've won 7 of the last 8 they've played vs the Bosox. Boston would be dangerous in a short series, but it now looks like they'll have trouble getting there. 5 back in the loss and 4 back in the wild card. Even with everything falling into place, I cant see them beating the White Sox though.

Tenbatsuzen

08-20-2006, 06:32 AM

CampoNJ wrote: As for Melky. He has done a good job but come on he hasnt been as great as a lot of you have made him out to be. Hes not a power hitting OF, he has decent steals and runs scored but nothing spectacular. His Rbis are ok for the order in which he bats. And his defense has been great. But hes not nor has he been a great prospect for the yanks. I think he was always suppose to be a fill in player and never their future. I do think with him having a decent year they may trade him to a team who thinks he may be a good prospect. He reminds me a lot of Juan Riveria the difference is, riveria was a prospect with more pop. He is finally looking like the player they thought he could have been. But it has taken him like 5 years and 2 or 3 different teams since leaving the yanks.Lets all not blow melky up just because we are yanks fans. On any other team you wouldnt even know his name and no one looking at his #'s would be that impressed.

    BDC already hit on this, but it's his first full year in the majors, he's hitting near 300 with 7 home runs, 10 stolen bases, great defense, and this is key - clutch hitting.  I mean, Derek Jeter has nearly the same exact stat line as Melky (a little higher average and more RBI) his rookie year.

crb1

08-20-2006, 06:41 AM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: BDC already hit on this, but it's his first full year in the majors, he's hitting near 300 with 7 home runs, 10 stolen bases, great defense, and this is key - clutch hitting.  I mean, Derek Jeter has nearly the same exact stat line as Melky (a little higher average and more RBI) his rookie year.I'd like to see the Yankees keep Melky, and I think there's a chance of that in the Cashman-run Yankees.  It would be nice to see another cheap player on the roster.  However, they do have three ofs signed for next season, so there's a chance he gets traded for pitching.  At the moment, the rotation next year looks like this: Johnson, Wang, Wright...I assume Mussina will be re-signed, but can't say for sure.  I think they'll look at Zito as another starter, and hope that maybe, just maybe, Pavano will come back and make them pick 5 starters from a group of 6.  I see Pavano as a total non-factor until he proves otherwise though, even then I don't think he projects to much more than a middle of the rotation guy.

Bulldogcakes

08-20-2006, 02:19 PM

If Pavano just showed teams that he's healthy, and WANTS to pitch in the big leagues (actually does well) I think Cashman will try like hell to trade him in the off-season. They dangled him last year, when they suspected he didn't want to be here and/or didn't fit in with the win-now attitude the team has. Lets face it, who'd ever know he was gone. AS far as off season stuff goes, I dont want to get into it now in the middle of a pennant race. But Zito, Mulder, Contreres, Pettite are all free agents. The Yanks also have an out on Jaret Wright's deal, and Torre doesn't love him. And alot of smoke coming out of Toronto saying Vernon Wells wont re-sign and wants out. So it could get interesting for both NY teams.

HBox

08-20-2006, 02:32 PM

Melky has shown consistent improvement since he was called up this year. He started out as a strictly singl;es hitter, then he started drawing some walks, then he started getting more extra base hits, and then he started showing more pop. This is extremely significant development for a 22 year old hitter.

Tenbatsuzen

08-20-2006, 04:36 PM

There is no...way...in...hell Pettite comes back here.  If you believe one side, Steinbrenner doesn't want him back, and if you believe the other, Pettite's wife won't let him come back. Hmmm.  No Garner and Affleck tonight?

Bulldogcakes

08-20-2006, 05:05 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: There is no...way...in...hell Pettite comes back here. If you believe one side, Steinbrenner doesn't want him back, and if you believe the other, Pettite's wife won't let him come back.  What if the Yanks offer 15 per year and the Astros only offered 10?   Oh, wait . .  . . thats what happened last time. Never mind.  <blockquote />

Bulldogcakes

08-20-2006, 05:08 PM

THE I WISH I WAS AS SEXY AS SAL FASANO MUSTACHE TALLYGiambiDamonand of course, the immortal Sal Fasano.  So far, I count 3. Giambi showed up with one last week, now Damon appears to be growing one. If A-Rod grows one he should just go join the Villiage People.

BoondockSaint

08-20-2006, 07:00 PM

I hear Waldman's is coming in nicely.

HBox

08-20-2006, 08:56 PM

I don't think this will get to extra innings.

HBox

08-20-2006, 08:59 PM

Why......... for fucks sake.......... is Bernie fucking Williams.............. in right field?Motherfucker.

Fallon

08-20-2006, 09:06 PM

HBox wrote: I don't think this will get to extra innings.   <img width="395" height="600" border="0" src="http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jan05/carson2012305.jpg" />

Dirtybird12

08-20-2006, 09:11 PM

What a killer game -  Lets go sox

Tenbatsuzen

08-20-2006, 09:30 PM

That was a fun game, but Bill Simmons called it - you absolutely cannot let the Yankees get into your pen.  They will destroy it.  If the Yankees are down by less than four runs with three innings to go and your starter is out of the game... there is no way the game is over.  Schilling gave everything he possibly could for the Sox, and they still couldn't hold on.

Dirtybird12

08-20-2006, 09:37 PM

Im a dead man. Nice knowing yall. Fun game indeed until you lose the rent money. Im a dead man. Jesus Christ man. I need some input from u regulars - If given the chance would you double or nothing on the Sox later today?No way the Yanks can win 5 in a row. .. right?<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/help.gif" border="0" />

Tenbatsuzen

08-20-2006, 09:43 PM

CircusFreak wrote: Im a dead man. Nice knowing yall. Fun game indeed until you lose the rent money. Im a dead man. Jesus Christ man. I need some input from u regulars - If given the chance would you double or nothing on the Sox later today?No way the Yanks can win 5 in a row. .. right?<img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/help.gif" />   Perry... I know Schilling was pitching, but why on God's green earth would you bet on this game, given the condition of both team's bullpens? Wells is pitching tomorrow.  The sox' pen is still fucked.  The Yanks' pen isn't much better.  I'd bet on preseason Monday Night Football before I'd bet on tomorrow's game.

spoon

08-20-2006, 09:44 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  HBox wrote: You can't just say that. Post some numbers for the Cano and Cabrera signings. And then we can debate something. You just can't write off every single Yankee signing as "Oh, they have money. They deserve no credit." Where was all the hype for Cano and Cabrera? If they were such studs, if they were such obvious can't miss prospects as to nullify any need for scouting where was the hype? Why didn't either of these guys make a blip anywhere on top 100 prospect lists?   H, when Yankee haters start crying about payroll, its because they know their season is lost, and they see the Yankee freight train rolling toward yet another championship. Dont get annoyed by it, be happy about it. It's a good sign for us. 1)  You have nothing to do with their winning, just in case bc you seem delusional.2)  The fucking $210 million dollar plus yanks haven't won shit yet either.  And if they did, who the fuck would care any longer?  It really is a joke that you can't see any of this at all.

Judge Smails

08-20-2006, 09:53 PM

CircusFreak wrote: Im a dead man. Nice knowing yall. Fun game indeed until you lose the rent money. Im a dead man. Jesus Christ man. I need some input from u regulars - If given the chance would you double or nothing on the Sox later today?No way the Yanks can win 5 in a row. .. right?<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/help.gif" border="0" />If it were me, I'd bet everything.   But that's me. I'm an aggressive gambler. Mr. Vegas. Come on. Go for it. Go for it.<img src="http://theskinnyonbenny.com/img/bald/johncandy.jpg" border="0" />

Tenbatsuzen

08-20-2006, 09:56 PM

spoon wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: HBox wrote: You can't just say that. Post some numbers for the Cano and Cabrera signings. And then we can debate something. You just can't write off every single Yankee signing as "Oh, they have money. They deserve no credit." Where was all the hype for Cano and Cabrera? If they were such studs, if they were such obvious can't miss prospects as to nullify any need for scouting where was the hype? Why didn't either of these guys make a blip anywhere on top 100 prospect lists? H, when Yankee haters start crying about payroll, its because they know their season is lost, and they see the Yankee freight train rolling toward yet another championship. Dont get annoyed by it, be happy about it. It's a good sign for us. 1) You have nothing to do with their winning, just in case bc you seem delusional.2) The fucking $210 million dollar plus yanks haven't won shit yet either. And if they did, who the fuck would care any longer? It really is a joke that you can't see any of this at all.    If the Yankees payroll hasn't won shit, then why are you complaining (see your posts from Friday night)  You can't have your cake and eat it too.

spoon

08-20-2006, 10:04 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: If Pavano just showed teams that he's healthy, and WANTS to pitch in the big leagues (actually does well) I think Cashman will try like hell to trade him in the off-season. They dangled him last year, when they suspected he didn't want to be here and/or didn't fit in with the win-now attitude the team has. Lets face it, who'd ever know he was gone. AS far as off season stuff goes, I dont want to get into it now in the middle of a pennant race. But Zito, Mulder, Contreres, Pettite are all free agents. The Yanks also have an out on Jaret Wright's deal, and Torre doesn't love him. And alot of smoke coming out of Toronto saying Vernon Wells wont re-sign and wants out. So it could get interesting for both NY teams.  You wake up yet?  Wells has a good chance of staying in Toronto, that's half the reason they are freeing up money right now to resign him before his contract expires in 2007.  Not at the end of this year.  He has never stated he's uhappy, he just might want to play closer to where he's from and his best friend is (Michael Young).  So if he does leave, I promise you it's to play with Texas.  

This message was edited by spoon on 8-21-06 @ 2:13 AM

spoon

08-20-2006, 10:19 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote:  spoon wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote:  HBox wrote: You can't just say that. Post some numbers for the Cano and Cabrera signings. And then we can debate something. You just can't write off every single Yankee signing as "Oh, they have money. They deserve no credit." Where was all the hype for Cano and Cabrera? If they were such studs, if they were such obvious can't miss prospects as to nullify any need for scouting where was the hype? Why didn't either of these guys make a blip anywhere on top 100 prospect lists?   H, when Yankee haters start crying about payroll, its because they know their season is lost, and they see the Yankee freight train rolling toward yet another championship. Dont get annoyed by it, be happy about it. It's a good sign for us. 1) You have nothing to do with their winning, just in case bc you seem delusional.2) The fucking $210 million dollar plus yanks haven't won shit yet either. And if they did, who the fuck would care any longer? It really is a joke that you can't see any of this at all.    If the Yankees payroll hasn't won shit, then why are you complaining (see your posts from Friday night)  You can't have your cake and eat it too. What!?  That's fucking idiotic!  So you can't complain of an unfair advantage unless the team wins every fucking year?  You're smarter than that I thought.  Unless Mikeyboy is right.  But I forgot you guys aren't really baseball fans, you're yankee fans and that's all that matters.  Most of you have rarely watched or listened to a game outside your team and know little else.  If it isn't on a yank site or YES, bulldogcakes wouldn't know what the hell you were talking about.

RingWraith

08-20-2006, 10:35 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: THE I WISH I WAS AS SEXY AS SAL FASANO MUSTACHE TALLYGiambiDamonand of course, the immortal Sal Fasano.  So far, I count 3. Giambi showed up with one last week, now Damon appears to be growing one. If A-Rod grows one he should just go join the Villiage People.  You forgot Ron Villone.  He's also trying to grow the mustache.

Tenbatsuzen

08-20-2006, 10:54 PM

spoon wrote:What!? That's fucking idiotic! So you can't complain of an unfair advantage unless the team wins every fucking year? You're smarter than that I thought. Unless Mikeyboy is right. But I forgot you guys aren't really baseball fans, you're yankee fans and that's all that matters. Most of you have rarely watched or listened to a game outside your team and know little else. If it isn't on a yank site or YES, bulldogcakes wouldn't know what the hell you were talking about.    Seriously?  Complain about a million other things other than the payroll.  Don't complain about an unfair advantage.  Your boy Rogers can open the purse strings if he wants.  It's not just the payroll, it's the baseball people that Steinbrenner has surrounding him, and THAT is what helps build championship teams.  The A's and the Twins have proven you can be competitive with small payrolls.  You sound like a broken fucking record.  Money can't buy championships, it's talent, chemistry, and management that win them.  As for you calling me out about not being a baseball fan, that's just idiotic.  I've been to a ton of minor league games, and hell, just last night, I watched that Mets comeback game against the Rockies.  Christ, I was at Game 6 in 86, and it's one of my most cherished baseball memories ever. BDC... welll, you got a point there.

Tenbatsuzen

08-20-2006, 11:35 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: Tenbatsuzen wrote: TheMojoPin wrote: Remember, this is the team that apparently never even thought to put A-Rod at SS. ...because they had a perfectly excellent short stop who was the captain of the team and had four rings and had no reason, whatsoever, to give up his spot? Jeter's an excellent SS.A-Rod was and is better.If Jeter was such a good captain, he'd have realized that and opted to move to 3rd or 2nd instead for the good of the team.I have no grudge or "hate" for the Yankees. I've just always thought that was a pretty stupid move. Insanity. The Yankees had a NEED for a third baseman, because Boone was done. A-Rod wanted OUT of Texas, and was pissed off because of how the Boston deal broke down. He was willing to make the sacrifice to play third to get out of Texas, so the idea of Jeter playing 3B was never even broached. They were accomodating A-Rod by facilitating his exit out of Texas and on to a winning team, but in order to do that, he had to accomodate them by going to 3B. A-Rod has had a few defensive gaffes at 3B, but probably none moreso than Jeter would have had. The situation was a complete wash, AND if A-Rod had forced the issue and displaced Jeter from his natural position, he would generate even MORE animosity from Yankee fans. Captain or not, it's Jeter's position. A-Rod made the accomodation. EDIT: The only way you can call this move "stupid" is if the Yankees had massive defensive issues since the trade.  They haven't.  Yes, A-Rod's had some errors, but he's also had some spectacular plays as well.  His errors are magnified because of the fact that he's A-Rod.  

This message was edited by Tenbatsuzen on 8-21-06 @ 3:48 AM

crb1

08-21-2006, 04:13 AM

Do we dare to dream that Pavano may actually pitch this season?  <a href="http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/pavano_outing_is_big_step_forward_yankees_george_k ing.htm">http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/pavano_outing_is_big_step_forward_yankees_george_k ing.htm</a>Again, I'm not holding my breath, but it would be nice if they could figure out a way to work him in and send Lidle or Wright to the pen to eat some innings before Proctor (who may just pitch in all 5 games of the Sox series) has his arm fall off.  Side note:  I'm sure many, if not all, of the people that post about baseball know of this site, but just in case:<a href="http://www.prosportsdaily.com/mlb/mlb.html">http://www.prosportsdaily.com/mlb/mlb.html</a>It's my morning reading for info on MLB in general, and is specifically good for hot stove rumors.

TheMojoPin

08-21-2006, 04:59 AM

Tenbatsuzen wrote:  TheMojoPin wrote: Tenbatsuzen wrote:  TheMojoPin wrote: Remember, this is the team that apparently never even thought to put A-Rod at SS.     ...because they had a perfectly excellent short stop who was the captain of the team and had four rings and had no reason, whatsoever, to give up his spot?  Jeter's an excellent SS.A-Rod was and is better.If Jeter was such a good captain, he'd have realized that and opted to move to 3rd or 2nd instead for the good of the team.I have no grudge or "hate" for the Yankees. I've just always thought that was a pretty stupid move.   Insanity. The Yankees had a NEED for a third baseman, because Boone was done.  A-Rod wanted OUT of Texas, and was pissed off because of how the Boston deal broke down. He was willing to make the sacrifice to play third to get out of Texas, so the idea of Jeter playing 3B was never even broached. They were accomodating A-Rod by facilitating his exit out of Texas and on to a winning team, but in order to do that, he had to accomodate them by going to 3B. A-Rod has had a few defensive gaffes at 3B, but probably none moreso than Jeter would have had. The situation was a complete wash, AND if A-Rod had forced the issue and displaced Jeter from his natural position, he would generate even MORE animosity from Yankee fans. Captain or not, it's Jeter's position. A-Rod made the accomodation. EDIT: The only way you can call this move "stupid" is if the Yankees had massive defensive issues since the trade.  They haven't.  Yes, A-Rod's had some errors, but he's also had some spectacular plays as well.  His errors are magnified because of the fact that he's A-Rod.  This message was edited by Tenbatsuzen on 8-21-06 @ 3:48 AM At the time, A-Rod was far and away the best SS in the game (and he still probably is if he ever moves back).  Simply put, it's pretty nuts when a team has the stones to go after a guy like that and then not play him at his natural position.  "Animosity from the fans" shouldn't have even been a thought.

TheMojoPin

08-21-2006, 05:03 AM

Let me put it this way...it's the equivalent of the Yankees deciding to play Pujols or Lee at 3rd instead of 1st if they somehow got him just because Giambi was already there.  Personally, I think playing Jeter or A-Rod at 3rd is a toss-up as to who you'd want, but when you pick between who should play SS, ESPECIALLY at the time, not bothering to try and work A-Rod into that spot struck a lot of people as a bit odd.

TheGameHHH

08-21-2006, 12:14 PM

SWEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tenbatsuzen

08-21-2006, 12:15 PM

Bulldogcakes

08-21-2006, 12:17 PM

<img width="264" height="321" border="0" src="http://www.rockingham.k12.va.us/sound_sorting/initial_blends/sw/images/sweep.jpg" />I have had too much respect for this team to write them off, but the Red Sox are DONE!DONE! DONE! DOOOOOOONNNNNE!!!!!!!!

Bulldogcakes

08-21-2006, 12:19 PM

EDIT-Ringwraith beat me to it  

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 8-21-06 @ 4:29 PM

Bulldogcakes

08-21-2006, 12:26 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: BDC... welll, you got a point there.   Gee, and I used to wonder why half the board hates your guts. Now I know.  <blockquote />

Don Stugots

08-21-2006, 12:28 PM

they should all grow them just to piss off the boss.  you know jeter and arod will never grow theirs, it might mess up their pretty faces.  i could see the rest of the team doing it.

Bulldogcakes

08-21-2006, 12:32 PM

Is it too soon to start getting into playoff matchups? Hmm? Maybe?

Tenbatsuzen

08-21-2006, 12:39 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Is it too soon to start getting into playoff matchups? Hmm? Maybe?    THERE IS STILL FIVE WEEKS OF BASEBALL TO BE PLAYED.

HBox

08-21-2006, 12:50 PM

Looks like they are going to skip Mussina in the rotation. That means Jaret Wright will be moved back to take Mussina's next start and Jeff Karstens will start tomorrow.

Bulldogcakes

08-21-2006, 01:00 PM

7 Game lead in the loss. PLus the Yanks have now won 9 of the last 10 games they've played against the Bosox. And even if the Bosox swept them at home in Septmeber, the Yanks have already won the season series if they ended up tied like last year.  Oakland is up 5 on the Angels, so its unlikely we have to worry about LA this year. Then there's Chicago and DetroitThe entire NL sucks Oakland can pitch, but cant hit. They have a winning record vs the Yanks this year, so you cant just write them off. Yanks have dominated Detroit this year, plus they're so young it's tough to make that big step with an inexperienced team who swings at everything. You have to like their pitching, but look at how they've played against the better teams like the Yanks, Chisox, etc. Not good. White Sox are by far the toughest matchup. Yanks might also face them IN THE FIRST ROUND as it stands today. So the two best teams in Baseball may be playing a 5 game series. That could be tricky with Contreres going twice.

Tenbatsuzen

08-21-2006, 01:07 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: 7 Game lead in the loss. PLus the Yanks have now won 9 of the last 10 games they've played against the Bosox. And even if the Bosox swept them at home in Septmeber, the Yanks have already won the season series if they ended up tied like last year. Oakland is up 5 on the Angels, so its unlikely we have to worry about LA this year. Then there's Chicago and DetroitThe entire NL sucks Oakland can pitch, but cant hit. They have a winning record vs the Yanks this year, so you cant just write them off. Yanks have dominated Detroit this year, plus they're so young it's tough to make that big step with an inexperienced team who swings at everything. You have to like their pitching, but look at how they've played against the better teams like the Yanks, Chisox, etc. Not good. White Sox are by far the toughest matchup. Yanks might also face them IN THE FIRST ROUND as it stands today. So the two best teams in Baseball may be playing a 5 game series. That could be tricky with Contreres going twice.    THERE. IS. STILL. FIVE. WEEKS. OF. BASEBALL. Your enthusiasm is noted, and you're coming down from a high after a five game sweep, But there is STILL a ton of stuff that has to be taken care of before you can even consider discussing this.    Wait until September 15th. And yes, I'm superstitious as all hell.

HBox

08-21-2006, 01:11 PM

Let's all try and keep in mind how things so drastically changed in only 4 days.

spoon

08-21-2006, 01:40 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote:  spoon wrote: What!? That's fucking idiotic! So you can't complain of an unfair advantage unless the team wins every fucking year? You're smarter than that I thought. Unless Mikeyboy is right. But I forgot you guys aren't really baseball fans, you're yankee fans and that's all that matters. Most of you have rarely watched or listened to a game outside your team and know little else. If it isn't on a yank site or YES, bulldogcakes wouldn't know what the hell you were talking about.    Seriously?  Complain about a million other things other than the payroll.  Don't complain about an unfair advantage.  Your boy Rogers can open the purse strings if he wants.  It's not just the payroll, it's the baseball people that Steinbrenner has surrounding him, and THAT is what helps build championship teams.  The A's and the Twins have proven you can be competitive with small payrolls.  You sound like a broken fucking record.  Money can't buy championships, it's talent, chemistry, and management that win them.  As for you calling me out about not being a baseball fan, that's just idiotic.  I've been to a ton of minor league games, and hell, just last night, I watched that Mets comeback game against the Rockies.  Christ, I was at Game 6 in 86, and it's one of my most cherished baseball memories ever. BDC... welll, you got a point there.  Well, I guess you are as idiotic as I had feared.  And notice I never stated your name, instead said "most".  Stop reading posts in your own language to make false points.  The yankee fan first point is true though, in that the league may crumble and teams will be contracted in once great cities for this new version of mlb you cling to bc of the advatages you fail to see, ignore and plain deny.  One has only to look at the fan levels in other cities and realize that the game is in trouble.  Keep down the path and it'll bust eventually.  I for one had about 50, no joke 50 convos over the weekend at a charity event in PA about this and everyone but yank fans thought their was a problem and have been watchin much less in the last half decade and only getting worse.  Even Met and Boston fans think MLB needs a change and admit they have an clear advantage over the rest of the league.  However, they miss the old days when teams only won bc of the very factors you've listed, not in spite of them.  Too bad, I thought you thought more clearly than that.  Sure I hate the yanks, but in the past it was fun.  Now it really doesn't even matter.  It's a joke.

spoon

08-21-2006, 01:45 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote:  TheMojoPin wrote: Tenbatsuzen wrote:  TheMojoPin wrote: Remember, this is the team that apparently never even thought to put A-Rod at SS.     ...because they had a perfectly excellent short stop who was the captain of the team and had four rings and had no reason, whatsoever, to give up his spot?  Jeter's an excellent SS.A-Rod was and is better.If Jeter was such a good captain, he'd have realized that and opted to move to 3rd or 2nd instead for the good of the team.I have no grudge or "hate" for the Yankees. I've just always thought that was a pretty stupid move.   Insanity. The Yankees had a NEED for a third baseman, because Boone was done.  A-Rod wanted OUT of Texas, and was pissed off because of how the Boston deal broke down. He was willing to make the sacrifice to play third to get out of Texas, so the idea of Jeter playing 3B was never even broached. They were accomodating A-Rod by facilitating his exit out of Texas and on to a winning team, but in order to do that, he had to accomodate them by going to 3B. A-Rod has had a few defensive gaffes at 3B, but probably none moreso than Jeter would have had. The situation was a complete wash, AND if A-Rod had forced the issue and displaced Jeter from his natural position, he would generate even MORE animosity from Yankee fans. Captain or not, it's Jeter's position. A-Rod made the accomodation. EDIT: The only way you can call this move "stupid" is if the Yankees had massive defensive issues since the trade.  They haven't.  Yes, A-Rod's had some errors, but he's also had some spectacular plays as well.  His errors are magnified because of the fact that he's A-Rod.  This message was edited by Tenbatsuzen on 8-21-06 @ 3:48 AM I totally agree with Mojo on this and have brought it up myself in the past.  Mojo is talking mostly in terms of making the right move for the team with his blessing.  He didn't do so and here lies the situation we have.  It's easy to see Jeter in fact didn't really want arod in ny and I would contend now enjoys the way it has played out.  He is human and I definitely respect his game but this is the one black mark I can put on him.  The yanks with Arod at SS and Jeter at 2nd/3rd probably would have been a better team.  Nobody can actually prove such things, but logic dictates it.  Yet the yanks can cover up almost any bad choice, and we all know where I'm going with this.

spoon

08-21-2006, 01:48 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: <img height="619" src="http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9680/massacre2kd1.jpg" width="542" border="0" /> Wow now you steal lines from announcers huh?  Nice work.

spoon

08-21-2006, 01:49 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: <img height="321" src="http://www.rockingham.k12.va.us/sound_sorting/initial_blends/sw/images/sweep.jpg" width="264" border="0" />I have had too much respect for this team to write them off, but the Red Sox are DONE!DONE! DONE! DOOOOOOONNNNNE!!!!!!!! Too much respect but here it goes anyway.  You never fail to amaze.

HeyGuy

08-21-2006, 01:57 PM

Wow I have been a Yanks fan since 1978 and a real fan because I still watched and loved them during the mid 80's til the early 90's when they were shit. But I'm still a fan of baseball first. I agree 100% with Spoon on the issue of money and spending and how MLB is ruining baseball because there is no salary cap. Its one thing to love your team but its another to want to blow every player on that team and find everything great about that team and their players. Come on, no other team in baseball could do what the yanks do. Yes some owners have the money to do it, but its their personal money.No team wants to lose money every year to keep up with the yanks. The yanks make a profit every year spending team money not steinbrenner money. If they didnt have the money coming in they wouldnt spend it. Steinbrenner wouldnt spend 100 mil more then he had coming in just to win. Baseball needs a balance. Even as a fan it gets boring watching the yanks win every year. If your a baseball fan first, then you like to see an underdog team win. Detroit is a great story this year, but how long will it last. Florida has a lot of young player. Cabrera, ramirez, uggla, willis and a few more. But this team will never stay together as soon as they are free agents they will be bought by the yanks. Thats why fans dont support their local teams. By the time the team is good and ready for a 2 or 3 year run they have to let them all go because they cant afford them anymore. So fans try not to get to invested in their local team because as soon as they do, the team is split up.I remember hating the jays in the early 90's because they owned the yanks. But the feeling I had in 94-98 was great, but the past 8-9 years going into the season you knew the yanks had the best chance to go to the series and you knew no matter what they were going to the playoffs. There is no reason to watch the season, because you know their in the playoffs every year. Start watching in October because thats when it will matter.As a yanks fan I hate the fact that we are the salary dump org. Even though Abreu has been a beast. Do you really think hes worth 15 mil? No and we have become the team that will take over great players that are over paid. It sucks and the fact that the yanks have that kind of money to throw away sucks even more. Because us fans over pay for everything yanks because of the spending they do. If there were a salary cap then maybe it would be more affordable to go to yanks games. But die to the fact the yanks spend 200 mil on salary. We the fans have to over pay to go to the games, but yanks gear and collectables. I hope baeball changes shit soon. It needs to be a more even playing field. When everything is even across the board. Then championships feel so much better. You feel like you played, better, the prg made better moves with their brains not just their money and that you won it, not bought it.

This message was edited by CampoNJ on 8-21-06 @ 6:01 PM

Don Stugots

08-21-2006, 04:07 PM

i dont think that the Red Sox should be counted out just yet.  at the least they will worm their way into the wildcard. 

spoon

08-21-2006, 04:37 PM

STUGOTS1 wrote: i dont think that the Red Sox should be counted out just yet.  at the least they will worm their way into the wildcard.  Nope, they're done too.  The pitching just isn't there....especially the bullpen it's ravaged.  They just don't have enough bullets right now to take out Chi and especially not the yanks.  It'll be the Yanks, Det, Chi and possibly the A's (maybe the Angels if they can stop getting injured).  The only other teams that look like they can upset this balance are the Red Sox and the Twins, but I doubt it.  Too many injuries on a very light Twins team to make the run and the Sox are just in shambles right now.

Bulldogcakes

08-21-2006, 04:53 PM

spoon wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: <img width="264" height="321" border="0" src="http://www.rockingham.k12.va.us/sound_sorting/initial_blends/sw/images/sweep.jpg" />I have had too much respect for this team to write them off, but the Red Sox are DONE!DONE! DONE! DOOOOOOONNNNNE!!!!!!!! Too much respect but here it goes anyway. You never fail to amaze.  You never fail to not read what I write.  Which is one of the many reasons I dont bother to respond to you. That, plus you and Snoogans are incapable of talking sports without throwing around insults every other word. Which says alot about you, none of it good.

Tenbatsuzen

08-21-2006, 06:46 PM

<img width="300" height="327" border="0" src="http://www.deadspin.com/assets/resources/2006/08/jeteronthebeach.jpg" /> Bitches, come.

TheMojoPin

08-21-2006, 08:00 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: <img height="327" src="http://www.deadspin.com/assets/resources/2006/08/jeteronthebeach.jpg" width="300" border="0" /> Bitches, come. He's breaking out in hives.  BECAUSES HE'S TEH GAY, LOLERZ!!!11111!!1!!11Seriously though, I'm hugely disapointed in the AL East.  I thought the Blue Jays were going to seriously mix it up and it would be a neck and neck and neck run between them and the Sox and the Yanks.  That ended up happening the AL Central instead.

spoon

08-21-2006, 10:17 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  spoon wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: <img height="321" src="http://www.rockingham.k12.va.us/sound_sorting/initial_blends/sw/images/sweep.jpg" width="264" border="0" />I have had too much respect for this team to write them off, but the Red Sox are DONE!DONE! DONE! DOOOOOOONNNNNE!!!!!!!! Too much respect but here it goes anyway. You never fail to amaze.  You never fail to not read what I write.  Which is one of the many reasons I dont bother to respond to you. That, plus you and Snoogans are incapable of talking sports without throwing around insults every other word. Which says alot about you, none of it good. "You never fail to not read" huh?  Very nice.  And you still contradicted yourself regardless of what words you emphasize.  Nice try.  As for the says alot about you part, from you it's a compliment.  You're dirty beyond what you write and making moves on barely legal girls on the site is half of it I'm sure.  Ball-busting around sports topics is nothing, move on if you can't handle it as it's what guys do.  Go watch WE or Oxygen for you daily dose of ass-licking baby talk since it's what you desire.  If you weren't the classic arrogant/pompous yankee fan perhaps you'd be able to have a sports convo you desire with someone other than another blinded yankee fan.  Odd that a Red Sox and Blue Jay fan can argue sports all day, both see the follies in the game, but you can't handle one of us or our issues without throwing out "yankee hater".  And funny that we've both argued plenty with the likes of other yankee fan posters (Hbox, Crip and even HHH of late) without majors issues, but you truly don't post bc you have no outs.  Your points are flawed and homerism is titanic.  Well there have been two distinct versions of my yankee hate:  1) Up until the late 90's it was a respectful hate of an opponent.  2)  Now it's a disdain for a team and the majority of fans who really haven't a clue to the damage to the game.   

This message was edited by spoon on 8-22-06 @ 2:26 AM

A.J.

08-22-2006, 04:34 AM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: <img height="327" src="http://www.deadspin.com/assets/resources/2006/08/jeteronthebeach.jpg" width="300" border="0" /> Bitches, come. "Or sometimes not at all."<img height="262" src="http://www.kaufengel.biz/artikelbilder/BILLY_BOB_Austin_Powers_Zaehne_3002185_g.jpg" width="230" border="0" />

Bulldogcakes

08-22-2006, 02:03 PM

spoon wrote:"You never fail to not read" huh? Very nice. And you still contradicted yourself regardless of what words you emphasize. Nice try. As for the says alot about you part, from you it's a compliment. You're dirty beyond what you write and making moves on barely legal girls on the site is half of it I'm sure. Ball-busting around sports topics is nothing, move on if you can't handle it as it's what guys do. Go watch WE or Oxygen for you daily dose of ass-licking baby talk since it's what you desire. If you weren't the classic arrogant/pompous yankee fan perhaps you'd be able to have a sports convo you desire with someone other than another blinded yankee fan. Odd that a Red Sox and Blue Jay fan can argue sports all day, both see the follies in the game, but you can't handle one of us or our issues without throwing out "yankee hater". And funny that we've both argued plenty with the likes of other yankee fan posters (Hbox, Crip and even HHH of late) without majors issues, but you truly don't post bc you have no outs. Your points are flawed and homerism is titanic. Well there have been two distinct versions of my yankee hate: 1) Up until the late 90's it was a respectful hate of an opponent. 2) Now it's a disdain for a team and the majority of fans who really haven't a clue to the damage to the game. Guess what Spoon. I dont respect you enough to care about what you think about anything. Maybe one day when you grow up you'll learn how to talk to people. But I doubt that. And your obsession with the Yankees says alot about your mental health. Ever notice how you're the only Yankee hater (there are many others on this site) who posts in this thread 3-4 times daily? I'll now go back to ignoring you, which is what you deserve.       

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 8-22-06 @ 6:19 PM

spoon

08-22-2006, 03:07 PM

Waaaa!  I post here for two reasons: 1) BC it's fun as hell   2) Some people can carry an adult sports convo without licking yank ass 24/7.  So keep ignoring me, it is what I deserve and desire.  This is a message board on a witty, funny, sarcastic radio show we all love.  It isn't match.com or a find a friend site for those looking for friends.  And trust me, you have more a yankee obsession than I do, just the other way.  So you speak of you're own mental health.  If I love a sport and a handful of teams(perhaps one could make the argument that it's only one team) are continue to kill it.  Yes, I'll post in a thread about them.  Don't like it, go the way of Moe as you claimed in the past.  Those who preach things like growing up usually are projecting and have issues themselves.  You see, I can seperate my life and work from this place and let loose without having to play up to your self-righteous standards.  And does this attitude just disappear when you deem so in threads where you act the dirty old man with young girls?  You can't pick and choose there buddy.  Now I'll go back to not ignoring anything I feel is stupid that you write.

TheGameHHH

08-22-2006, 04:57 PM

I fucking hate west coast games, I'm gonna be so tired tomorrow.

Tenbatsuzen

08-22-2006, 05:10 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: I fucking hate west coast games, I'm gonna be so tired tomorrow.    Not only that, but Rescue Me is looking to be REALLY good tonight. I'll watch RM and then flip to the game.  I just hate the name "Gil Meche".

HBox

08-22-2006, 05:17 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: TheGameHHH wrote: I fucking hate west coast games, I'm gonna be so tired tomorrow. Not only that, but Rescue Me is looking to be REALLY good tonight. I'll watch RM and then flip to the game. I just hate the name "Gil Meche".   Good news: Gil Meche is not starting tonight.Bad News: New guy is a guy that the Yanks have never faced. That's never good. And his name is Cha Seung Baek.

zildjian361

08-22-2006, 05:18 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: I fucking hate west coast games, I'm gonna be so tired tomorrow.           You got that right HHH im still recovering from the 5 game SWEEP = NO SLEEP. but did i enjoy <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/drunk.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/sleep.gif" border="0" />

Don Stugots

08-22-2006, 05:26 PM

are we all growing funny mustaches to show our support for Sal? i am in.

TheGameHHH

08-22-2006, 05:31 PM

fuck, I totally forgot about Rescue Me. Why don't I have TiVo or DVR or whatever else it's called nowadays?Also, I'll grow a stash as well, in the words of David Puddy, "Gotta support the team"

Bulldogcakes

08-22-2006, 05:43 PM

HBox wrote:Good news: Gil Meche is not starting tonight.Bad News: New guy is a guy that the Yanks have never faced. That's never good. And his name is Cha Seung Baek. Yanks are starting a rookie too. This is not exactly must see TV. Especially after the big Boston series. Seattle is coming off a 11 game losing streak, though. I'll wake up a few times a catch the score. I have to get up early.    

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 8-22-06 @ 9:44 PM

Tenbatsuzen

08-22-2006, 07:25 PM

HBox wrote: Cha Seung Baek.    Isn't that Bamboo shoots in brown sauce?

Tenbatsuzen

08-22-2006, 07:32 PM

This may be sacrilegious, and I can't believe I'm seeing it, but the more Damon is growing in his mustache, the more he looks like an expressive Don Mattingly.

spoon

08-22-2006, 08:50 PM

Waa BDC.  Most teams have done a ton of times already this year.  Hell the Jays have started five different rookies from AA and AAA.  It's what most teams w/o 210 million dollar payrolls have to do.  I'd love to see the yanks play a full season with only pitchers from there system.  They'd be tie with Tampa right now.

spoon

08-22-2006, 09:27 PM

K-rod with the wiffffffffffffffffffffffffff. He's no Beltran.... or ....oh wait.... oh yes!  He's no Beltre either!  Yes!

This message was edited by spoon on 8-23-06 @ 1:30 AM

RingWraith

08-22-2006, 10:21 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: This may be sacrilegious, and I can't believe I'm seeing it, but the more Damon is growing in his mustache, the more he looks like an expressive Don Mattingly.  And now Jaret Wright has a mustache too.  WTF!?

spoon

08-22-2006, 10:23 PM

It's the gay uniting cry of the yankee that's all. 

A.J.

08-23-2006, 04:33 AM

Growing facial hair during the run to the playoffs?  Where have I seen this before?<img height="262" src="http://homepage.mac.com/johep/iblog/C869781080/E859067277/Media/041215_damon.jpg" width="195" border="0" />

TheGameHHH

08-23-2006, 07:59 AM

how is it that Beltre can suck balls all fucking year, then hit 2 HRs the night he plays the Yanks?

Tenbatsuzen

08-23-2006, 08:38 AM

I just wanted to share this from the listening thread: <img width="90" height="135" border="0" src="http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_114031.jpg" /> "HEY NOW!"

A.J.

08-23-2006, 08:46 AM

"Sal's lookaround cafe'."

Tenbatsuzen

08-23-2006, 10:06 AM

Sal's Frozen Bananas? There's always money in the banana stand.

Bulldogcakes

08-23-2006, 01:20 PM

<h1><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2557770" target="_self" title="GM Cashman says Yankees losing money">GM Cashman says Yankees losing money</a></h1>Forbes Magazine reported that the Yankees became the first MLB team
to be worth more than $1 billion with a baseball-best $277 million in
revenue.However, Forbes said the Yankees lost $50 million last
season because the team paid $77 million in revenue sharing. The New
York Daily News also reported in December that the Yankees lost at
least $50 million and possibly as much as $85 million last season.

HBox

08-23-2006, 03:20 PM

Mike Mussina was placed on the DL. Hopefully they just want to get him some extra rest.Paging Carl Pavano..........

zildjian361

08-23-2006, 05:52 PM

Anybody  watching the pregame Hot Blonde on the right brown sweater NIPPLE Segment<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/blink.gif" border="0" />fuck the lineup<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/wub.gif" border="0" />whats her name again?

TheGameHHH

08-23-2006, 06:12 PM

of course I miss the pregame then find out A-rod isnt playing and now I can't change my fantasy line-up. And i miss a hot bitch, fuckin a!

Tenbatsuzen

08-23-2006, 07:16 PM

I will admit, the Mets are an awesome team, but they had some SNY Homo playing with a Beatles coverband during the game.  I know the Beatles played Shea back in the day, but why him?

TheGameHHH

08-23-2006, 08:35 PM

the bigger question is, why watch the mets?

TheGameHHH

08-23-2006, 09:01 PM

Man, they just cruised tonight. This team is really starting to get me excited.

This message was edited by TheGameHHH on 8-24-06 @ 1:01 AM

Tenbatsuzen

08-23-2006, 09:18 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: Man, they just cruised tonight. This team is really starting to get me excited.    SHHHHHH!!!!

Tenbatsuzen

08-23-2006, 09:19 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: the bigger question is, why watch the mets?   Because it's the middle of summer, nothing was on TV, and it was a good game?

Justice4all

08-23-2006, 11:17 PM

spoon wrote: It's the gay uniting cry of the yankee that's all.  But not as gay as a Blue Jays fan/Yankee Hater  sounding like sour grapes.I'm just sayin'....

Justice4all

08-23-2006, 11:19 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: the bigger question is, why watch the mets? Because, as much as I hate to admit it...the Mets are an exciting team this year. They do have a strong chance to make the Series, if their pitching staff holds up. At least they did not lose Glavin for the year with the surgery. Now he is gonna be back in another week at best. I say another subway series and knock em back to the National League with their heads held low.

crb1

08-24-2006, 04:27 AM

I fell asleep when it was 7-0, but it's good to see that Dotel was able to work a full inning.  Looked like he pitched well, with 2 K's and no runs.  The Yanks could use a few lopsided games, so they can get him regular work and back to a point where he can contribute in key spots.  They're going to need him in the playoffs, considering that Wang is the only starter that consistently goes beyond the 6th.

Tenbatsuzen

08-24-2006, 05:56 AM

Justice4all wrote: I say another subway series and knock em back to the National League with their heads held low.   One, SHHHHHHHH. Two, the Mets team of 2006 is much, much, MUCH better than the Mets team of 2000.  They are legitimately scary with all the weapons they have.

TheGameHHH

08-24-2006, 08:28 AM

They are legitametly scary because they play in the AAAA league. Do they have talented players on their team? Yes. Does their competiton suck ass? Yes. Do they stand a chance against the AL? No.

crb1

08-24-2006, 08:35 AM

TheGameHHH wrote: They are legitametly scary because they play in the AAAA league. Do they have talented players on their team? Yes. Does their competiton suck ass? Yes. Do they stand a chance against the AL? No. The Mets are playing in a weaker league, but they are still a very good team.  A lot will depend on the health of Glavine/Pedro, but the middle of their lineup is very good.

Bulldogcakes

08-24-2006, 01:01 PM

Justice4all wrote: I say another subway series and knock em back to the <strike>National</strike> AAAA League with their heads held low.  Here, I fixed that for you.

cougarjake13

08-24-2006, 02:09 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: Man, they just cruised tonight. This team is really starting to get me excited. yeh but it'll all amount to nothing more than a cock tease and you'll be left with <img height="198" src="http://www.bumpernuts.com/2.jpg" width="149" border="0" />

Bulldogcakes

08-24-2006, 02:29 PM

The Yankees are so bad for Baseball, that this thread has 99 pages and the next one thats closest has 37. And they paid out 77 MILLION in revenue sharing last year ALONE. And they are (and always have been) the TOP team for road attendance. Fans fill ballparks around the country to see their team play the big bad Yankees.  And attendance has been up every year since they started winning in 95.   Yeah, the league's a mess.

Tenbatsuzen

08-24-2006, 02:41 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: They are legitametly scary because they play in the AAAA league. Do they have talented players on their team? Yes. Does their competiton suck ass? Yes. Do they stand a chance against the AL? No.    I hate talk like this.  In a five and seven game series, anything can happen.  As Yankee fans, we should all be aware of this. With injuries, cold and hot streaks, and random nuances of the game, you cannot say - ESPECIALLY in this day and age - that ANYTHING is a lock in baseball.  Just because the LEAGUE is weak doesn't mean a specific team is.  The Mets running away with the NL east are indicative that they can hang with the AL, especially given their lineup.  Delgado, Beltran, Wright, Lo Duca, and Reyes are SCARY good.   The Mariners had the best regular season ever and got dispatched by the Yankees.  The Yankees had the most emotional ALCS ever and got whaled by the NL Wildcard team.  The Choke.  Need I go on?

spoon

08-24-2006, 02:57 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote:  TheGameHHH wrote: They are legitametly scary because they play in the AAAA league. Do they have talented players on their team? Yes. Does their competiton suck ass? Yes. Do they stand a chance against the AL? No.    I hate talk like this.  In a five and seven game series, anything can happen.  As Yankee fans, we should all be aware of this. With injuries, cold and hot streaks, and random nuances of the game, you cannot say - ESPECIALLY in this day and age - that ANYTHING is a lock in baseball.  Just because the LEAGUE is weak doesn't mean a specific team is.  The Mets running away with the NL east are indicative that they can hang with the AL, especially given their lineup.  Delgado, Beltran, Wright, Lo Duca, and Reyes are SCARY good.   The Mariners had the best regular season ever and got dispatched by the Yankees.  The Yankees had the most emotional ALCS ever and got whaled by the NL Wildcard team.  The Choke.  Need I go on?  First, thank god a fucking yank fan stepped up on this one.  Good job Tenbats.

spoon

08-24-2006, 02:58 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  Justice4all wrote:  I say another subway series and knock em back to the <strike>National</strike> AAAA League with their heads held low.  Here, I fixed that for you.  Next, is this your new gimmick or what?  aaauuuchchhchchhkkk!

TheGameHHH

08-24-2006, 03:02 PM

I'm not saying the Mets suck here, I just think people are sucking their cocks a little too hard. I didn't watch a ton of Mets games this year and then like a month and a half ago I finally got fed up with all the hype so I made an effort to watch them go to fenway to play the sox, because any damage the mets could do up in boston would in turn help the Yanks. Turns out Papi, Manny, and the entire Red Sox squad took out their cocks and collectively pissed on the Mets for the entire series. It's cool watching them beat up on those pesky Marlins and Braves but put them up against a quality team and they'll absolutly shit themselves.

spoon

08-24-2006, 03:06 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: The Yankees are so bad for Baseball, that this thread has 99 pages and the next one thats closest has 37. And they paid out 77 MILLION in revenue sharing last year ALONE. And they are (and always have been) the TOP team for road attendance. Fans fill ballparks around the country to see their team play the big bad Yankees.  And attendance has been up every year since they started winning in 95.   Yeah, the league's a mess.  And finally, you might be deaf, dumb and blind.  The show is based and technically started in fucking NY you tart!  The bulk of posters are from here and many others post here to fuck with people like you.  $77 million isn't even close to putting the yankees under.  They should pay more as MLB should be setup like the NFL bc w/o the league the yanks get nothing.  The league doesn't need the yanks, the yanks need the league.  They get high road attendance bc kids/people around the country are front runners, their local teams fucking suck ass, they travel with a fucking all-star team and if any of these teams happen to be in the playoff race the fans know it's a potential playoff match.  Nice try, you really are idiotic to think this way.  At least the yankee's have good attendence for their 162 games, while the majority of teams suffer every fucking year.  And of course attendence is up since "95", its the year after the strike and it had nowhere else to go.  You can't possibly make a real argument huh?  The New York market is important to all sports but most aren't as a mess bc of it's own policies.

spoon

08-24-2006, 03:06 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:   <h1><a title="GM Cashman says Yankees losing money" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2557770" target="_self">GM Cashman says Yankees losing money</a></h1>  Forbes Magazine reported that the Yankees became the first MLB team to be worth more than $1 billion with a baseball-best $277 million in revenue.However, Forbes said the Yankees lost $50 million last season because the team paid $77 million in revenue sharing. The New York Daily News also reported in December that the Yankees lost at least $50 million and possibly as much as $85 million last season.    I'll say it right now too, Cashman is a fucking liar or being lied to.  No doubt in my mind.

cougarjake13

08-24-2006, 03:17 PM

TheGameHHH wrote: I'm not saying the Mets suck here, I just think people are sucking their cocks a little too hard. I didn't watch a ton of Mets games this year and then like a month and a half ago I finally got fed up with all the hype so I made an effort to watch them go to fenway to play the sox, because any damage the mets could do up in boston would in turn help the Yanks. Turns out Papi, Manny, and the entire Red Sox squad took out their cocks and collectively pissed on the Mets for the entire series. It's cool watching them beat up on those pesky Marlins and Braves but put them up against a quality team and they'll absolutly shit themselves. while the sawx did spank us 3 games to nothing, we were 3-3 against the yankees , and 3-2 against the cardinals so thats hardly shitting ourselves, we have not played the white sox or tigers so we wont know how they'd do against them unless it's in the world series

OGC

08-24-2006, 03:23 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: <h1><a title="GM Cashman says Yankees losing money" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2557770" target="_self">GM Cashman says Yankees losing money</a></h1><img src="http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/1074/babyrt0.png" border="0" />Then stop spending so much money. Problem solved.

crb1

08-24-2006, 03:39 PM

spoon wrote: And finally, you might be deaf, dumb and blind.  The show is based and technically started in fucking NY you tart!  The bulk of posters are from here and many others post here to fuck with people like you.  $77 million isn't even close to putting the yankees under.  They should pay more as MLB should be setup like the NFL bc w/o the league the yanks get nothing.  The league doesn't need the yanks, the yanks need the league.  They get high road attendance bc kids/people around the country are front runners, their local teams fucking suck ass, they travel with a fucking all-star team and if any of these teams happen to be in the playoff race the fans know it's a potential playoff match.  Nice try, you really are idiotic to think this way.  At least the yankee's have good attendence for their 162 games, while the majority of teams suffer every fucking year.  And of course attendence is up since "95", its the year after the strike and it had nowhere else to go.  You can't possibly make a real argument huh?  The New York market is important to all sports but most aren't as a mess bc of it's own policies.  Attendance is up since '95, but has been very flat since about '98.  It has run between 67 million (02-03) to 74 million (05).  It did hit 70 million in 1993, as well (expansion year).  The record attendance is due to a number of factors though.  1st, attendance went from just under 63 million in 1997 to 70.6 million in '98, which was aided by two new teams which combined for just over 6.1 million new fans.  Another important factor to consider is the number of new parks that have opened since '95, which tends to increase ticket sales.  I think 7 parks have opened since '95, which has to be a factor.

crb1

08-24-2006, 03:49 PM

spoon wrote: Bulldogcakes wrote: <h1><a title="GM Cashman says Yankees losing money" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2557770" target="_self">GM Cashman says Yankees losing money</a></h1>  I'll say it right now too, Cashman is a fucking liar or being lied to.  No doubt in my mind.Technically the team itself can operate at a loss, depending on how they handle their finances, I believe.  Steinbrenner, the individual still makes money, but the entity takes a loss.  There was actually some research being done into the Yankees by the MLB to see how much they were being paid by YES Network to carry the games.  The thought was that YES was underpaying for the rights, which would lower the Yankees revenue and revenue sharing payment.  YES Network and the Yankees are separate on paper only, which is why the Yankees would want to do something like that.  It's basically like keeping your money in one bank, instead of another. And if that doesn't piss off Yankee haters enough, they will be writing off the $800 million in debt used to finance the new stadium in such a way that they will have to pay less, or no, revenue sharing money.  I'm not sure of the specifics though (number of years, amount of dollars, etc.).

Bulldogcakes

08-24-2006, 04:17 PM

crb1 wrote:Technically the team itself can operate at a loss, depending on how they handle their finances, I believe. Steinbrenner, the individual still makes money, but the entity takes a loss. There was actually some research being done into the Yankees by the MLB to see how much they were being paid by YES Network to carry the games. The thought was that YES was underpaying for the rights, which would lower the Yankees revenue and revenue sharing payment. YES Network and the Yankees are separate on paper only, which is why the Yankees would want to do something like that. It's basically like keeping your money in one bank, instead of another. And if that doesn't piss off Yankee haters enough, they will be writing off the $800 million in debt used to finance the new stadium in such a way that they will have to pay less, or no, revenue sharing money. I'm not sure of the specifics though (number of years, amount of dollars, etc.). You're right about most of that, but one quibble. The amount the Yankees pay to YES has nothing to do with how much they pay in revenue sharing. Rev sharing is based on how much the team spends on player salaries. And yes, the Yanks will likely be paying little to nothing in revenue sharing going foward, since the amortization costs of the stadium can be deducted from the rev sharing payments. And they just broke ground last week.  And anyone who knows anything about business knows that you can easily take $$ from one pocket and put it in another. As you stated though, the league has rules regarding these Team/TV arrangements (which is done by many other teams as well) so whatever they do is audited by the league. So you really have to take their word for it, they have pros looking at this stuff. <blockquote />

Don Stugots

08-24-2006, 04:53 PM

but who is watching the watchers?

zildjian361

08-24-2006, 06:05 PM

zildjian361 wrote: Anybody  watching the pregame Hot Blonde on the right brown sweater NIPPLE Segment<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/blink.gif" border="0" />fuck the lineup<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/wub.gif" border="0" />whats her name again?            KIM  THATS HERE NAME, but she must be a RON & FEZ .NET FAN because she got a black sports bra and a green top  fucked it up for all of us <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/down.gif" border="0" /> fuck it lets get back to whats its all about<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/drunk.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/king.gif" border="0" />

Tenbatsuzen

08-24-2006, 08:54 PM

Well, I'll give Randy credit for going a complete game and not taxing the bullpen. But this is the second complete game loss he's thrown this season, correct? Ichriro was playing like a madman tonight in the field.  I'll give him props for that. Ah well, on to Anaheim.

HBox

08-24-2006, 09:56 PM

One thing that needs to be said is that outside of the Boston series this tough stretch of games for the Yanks has been a disaster. They haven't won a series outside of Boston, including now losing to Baltimore and Seattle. 5-8 outside of the Boston series, and now face a nine game stretch vs. the Angels, the Tigers and the Twins, without Mussina. The bullpen got a nice rest in the Seattle series so there is at least that. Everyone should be rested and ready to go vs. the Angels.

Bulldogcakes

08-25-2006, 03:17 PM

HBox wrote: They haven't won a series outside of Boston   "So Mrs Lincoln, besides that how was the play?"   or something else to that effect is what every Red Sox fan thought when they read that.  <blockquote />

HBox

08-25-2006, 03:36 PM

I don't understand the cockiness. The Yanks have nine game against the Angels, Tigers and Twins without Mussina. They're coming off a series with the Mariners, the Red Sox are coming off a series with the Angels and the Red Sox managed to pick up a game. Now the roles are reversed. Would anyone here be shocked if the Yanks got swept by the Angels? I would be surprised, but its a definite possiblity with the 3 weakest starters going for the Yanks (Wright, Lidle and Karstens). And don't forget there is still a 4 game series in Yankee Stadium with the Red Sox in October. There is still so much that can go wrong and without Mussina this pitching staff is weak.On that note, Pavano is starting for the Clippers tonight. The plan is for him to throw 90 pitches.

Bulldogcakes

08-25-2006, 03:55 PM

Yeah, and Torre was on Mike and the Maddog today and said that Pavano will be "in the mix" when he's finished with his rehab. Which shocked me. He's a starter, so I guess he'll get Wright's starts, or maybe he'll rest some of the other guys.

zildjian361

08-25-2006, 06:55 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Yeah, and Torre was on Mike and the Maddog today and said that Pavano will be "in the mix" when he's finished with his rehab. Which shocked me. He's a starter, so I guess he'll get Wright's starts, or maybe he'll rest some of the other guys.           BDC Ya see The DOG Singing on stage with my boy SOUTHSIDE JOHNNY today <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/ohmy.gif" border="0" />

HBox

08-25-2006, 06:56 PM

Pavano's line tonight: 89 pitches, 6 IP. 8 H, 2 ER, 5 K, 1 BB.

Tenbatsuzen

08-25-2006, 07:05 PM

HBox wrote: Pavano's line tonight: 89 pitches, 6 IP. 8 H, 2 ER, 5 K, 1 BB.    Not too shabby. BTW, I can't watch these Yes closeups of Wright on the mound.  It's just disgusting.  Is that chaw, seeds, or bubblegum?  Whatever it is, it grosses me out.

HBox

08-25-2006, 07:14 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: HBox wrote: Pavano's line tonight: 89 pitches, 6 IP. 8 H, 2 ER, 5 K, 1 BB. Not too shabby. BTW, I can't watch these Yes closeups of Wright on the mound. It's just disgusting. Is that chaw, seeds, or bubblegum? Whatever it is, it grosses me out.   Oh yeah, its tobacco. I got a nice view of it one night. Almost vomited.

OGC

08-25-2006, 07:23 PM

<hr color="cococo" align="left">Bulldogcakes wrote: ÿHBox wrote: They haven't won a series outside of Boston ÿÿ"So Mrs Lincoln, besides that how was the play?"ÿÿÿor something else to that effect is what every Red Sox fan thought when they read that. ÿ<blockquote />ÿ<hr color="cococo" align="left">

Tenbatsuzen

08-25-2006, 07:37 PM

HBox wrote: Tenbatsuzen wrote: HBox wrote: Pavano's line tonight: 89 pitches, 6 IP. 8 H, 2 ER, 5 K, 1 BB. Not too shabby. BTW, I can't watch these Yes closeups of Wright on the mound. It's just disgusting. Is that chaw, seeds, or bubblegum? Whatever it is, it grosses me out. Oh yeah, its tobacco. I got a nice view of it one night. Almost vomited.    You know, I don't get smoking, but I really don't get chaw.  Not for nothing, it's about 1000x more disgusting than smoking.