2006 OFFICIAL MLB OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD! [Archive]

TheMojoPin

02-15-2006, 01:21 PM

Hey-hey! For a bunch of teams, including my Cubbies, pitchers and catchers report today...and by most baseball fan's count, that means MLB season has officially arrived! So please, post any and all Major League Baseball discussions/news/debates here. The World Baseball Classic, however, should get its own thread, so when practice gets into full swing for that two weeks from now, feel free to start one up.GO CUBS!!!<img src="http://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2003-10-02-cubs-fans-cover.jpg" border="0" /> 

This message was edited by JustJon on 3-15-07 @ 1:22 PM

Bulldogcakes

02-15-2006, 02:48 PM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2330826" target="_self" title="Mets sign Lima to minor league deal">Mets sign Lima to minor league deal</a>The bad news is you'll have to put up with this shit  <img width="300" height="350" border="0" src="http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2004/baseball/mlb/specials/postseason/2004/10/09/bc.bbn.cardinals.dodgers.sat.ap/p1_1009_lima_ap.jpg" /><img width="180" height="240" border="0" src="http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20041009/lima_81607.jpg" />The good news is his wife's got a great set of tits<img width="112" height="235" border="0" src="http://www.uncoolcentral.com/images/joselima/joselimaswife.gif" />  <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2330826" target="_self" title="Mets sign Lima to minor league deal"></a>

BoondockSaint

02-15-2006, 03:21 PM

I heard on WFAN before that Pavano already hurt his back and can't throw off a mound for two weeks.  At least he's consistent.

Bulldogcakes

02-15-2006, 03:28 PM

Dont even get me started about Pavano. All winter I hear he's not happy here, He regrets signing with the Yanks, now this shit. I've had it with Pavano. All I can say is I'm glad they're going into the season with 6 starters, and if Clemens doesn't come back with the Astros (who've done nothing to improve their hitting in the off season) they likely wont be very competitive and will make Petitte available at the trade deadline. It's his walk year. There's already been some rumors about it possibly happening even sooner.

MHasegawa

02-16-2006, 05:48 AM

Bah, I don't see any changes in the Oakland Asses, 1st place from May-August then bite the big one in September.

Tall_James

02-16-2006, 06:00 AM

MHasegawa wrote: Bah, I don't see any changes in the Oakland Asses, 1st place from May-August then bite the big one in September. The Oakland A's are the Michael Vick of Major League Baseball.

Patches

02-16-2006, 06:04 AM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Dont even get me started about Pavano. All winter I hear he's not happy here, He regrets signing with the Yanks, now this shit. I've had it with Pavano. All I can say is I'm glad they're going into the season with 6 starters, and if Clemens doesn't come back with the Astros (who've done nothing to improve their hitting in the off season) they likely wont be very competitive and will make Petitte available at the trade deadline. It's his walk year. There's already been some rumors about it possibly happening even sooner. Pettite can't come back to NY- his wife would never let him.  He had to leave NY to begin with b/c his mistress is here.

MHasegawa

02-16-2006, 07:09 AM

Tall_James wrote: MHasegawa wrote: Bah, I don't see any changes in the Oakland Asses, 1st place from May-August then bite the big one in September. The Oakland A's are the Michael Vick of Major League Baseball.  Yeah, I heard Zito has herpes.

spoon

02-17-2006, 11:34 PM

Please.  The train wreck known as the WBC doesn't even deserve a post let alone a whole thread.  And I guess Mojo's favorite sports get sticky qualities huh?  Gay!  I love how we shouldn't open a discussion on teams that aren't huge on the board, but we have 10k on fucking Moe down to the last few about his dilemma over tube socks, gummi worms and his grandmother's colostomy bag.  Makes sense!  Death Metal Moejo Mod!

TheMojoPin

02-18-2006, 05:14 AM

Actually, we said last season people can open up threads about any team they want...this one just exists for people that don't feel like it.  I only ended up locking my Cubs thread last year out of spite for them stinking it up.  And yeah, I think main threads for active sports events can be stickied.  It's not THAT scary.  Is there anything in ANY of these baseball threads you DON'T try to fight/bitch about?Now, back to baseball!Carlos Zambrano is no longer fat.  Yowza.<img height="409" src="http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060216/capt.f9cf1a6f14d34f48b943f620e4b969a2.cubs_spring_ baseball_aznh109.jpg" width="286" border="0" />

TheMojoPin

02-21-2006, 09:10 PM

SEXUAL MADDUX.<img height="310" src="http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060218/capt.9b0d5b91597c445384322f1cf17550db.cubs_spring_ training_baseball_aznh106.jpg" width="409" border="0" /><img height="348" src="http://images.art.com/images/-/George---The-Timeless-Art-of-Seduction--C10005308.jpeg" width="527" border="0" />

suggums

02-21-2006, 09:20 PM

i saw grady sizemore of the cleveland indians at phoenix airport this past weekend

Earlshog

02-24-2006, 01:56 PM

MHasegawa wrote:  Tall_James wrote: MHasegawa wrote: Bah, I don't see any changes in the Oakland Asses, 1st place from May-August then bite the big one in September. The Oakland A's are the Michael Vick of Major League Baseball.  Yeah, I heard Zito has herpes.  I wonder where he picked that up????  <img height="458" src="http://neo95.ifrance.com/1024%20-%20Alyssa%20Milano.jpg" width="611" border="0" />

BoondockSaint

02-24-2006, 03:36 PM

2006-2007 OFFICIAL MLB DISCUSSION THREAD!2006-2007?  Man, this thread is going to be around forever!  And the Cubs will stink for the life of it.

TheMojoPin

02-25-2006, 07:50 PM

Man, good call, BDS...I guess it was just wishful thinking on my part...time to bust my thread title editing cherry!But, as for actual baseball...recent Cubs pictures that fill me with joy...<img src="http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2006-02/22139574.jpg" border="0" /><img src="http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2006-02/22139665.jpg" border="0" />Mark Prior.  Kerry Wood.  Pitching off the mound.  Thank fucking Christ.  And independent Arizona sources are reporting that Wade Miller's rehab is coming along WAY ahead of schedule.  Yeah, I know spring training news is always dressed up, but this is coming from sources that usually love to print any bad news they can to try and set everyone up for disapointment.  If Zambraon does what he's been doing, Prior avoids freak injuries, Wood pitches the contract year he should have, the slimmed down Maddux pitches at #4 or #5 with Miller ready to go by May, and the MUCH improved bullpen?  Woooooooh!But, and this is a HUGE but, this is almost all on the pitching...the Cubs have some offense, but not nearly enough if they're plagued by the same slew of pitching health problems they've had the last two years.  So I am praying nonstop at this point.  Please, Lord, PLEASE!!!

Bulldogcakes

02-26-2006, 04:34 AM

Oh come on Mojo. If the winds blowing out at Wrigley and I could hit for you guys. And baseball is about pitching pitching pitching. And you guy's (when healthy) can pitch with anyone.The rest of the team's a bit of a hodge podge, but if your starters are healthy it wont matter. I cant get over how much weight Zambrano's lost. If that gives him the final piece to his puzzle he will be a monster this year. Great arm, great stuff. I always thought he just needed to mature a little to be one of the best in the game.

newport king

02-26-2006, 04:58 AM

But, as for actual baseball...recent Cubs pictures that fill me with joy...<img src="http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2006-02/22139574.jpg" border="0" /><img src="http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2006-02/22139665.jpg" border="0" />100 bucks says both of them land on the DL at least twice this year.

TheMojoPin

02-26-2006, 05:15 AM

newport king wrote: But, as for actual baseball...recent Cubs pictures that fill me with joy...<img src="http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2006-02/22139574.jpg" border="0" /><img src="http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2006-02/22139665.jpg" border="0" />  100 bucks says both of them land on the DL at least twice this year. Well, that's be a stupid bet to take because it's friggin' out of this world if a starting pitcher is NEVER on the DL at some point during a season.  I have little doubt, Wood especially, might miss a start or two here or there...I'm talking avoiding the long stretches that have hit them in the past.  Prior especially, since his previous major injuries have zero to do with his mechanics.  And Wood, hey, I can't stress this enough...CONTRACT YEAR.  Pitchers are notorious for suddenly "miracuously" finding their stuff again when they're out they'lre literally playing for their money.  He knows it, and he's gonna be playing for it.  And the spring training stuff is especially optimistic with him, since his problems had always hit him from the start.  Him already throwing from the mound with apparently little or no trouble is a great sign that the off season shoulder cleanup he had went as smoothly as everyone was saying.  Prior too was slow going because his offseason was thrown off when he was sick for almost a month in December and had to go to the ER because of it.  So both of them on the mound and throwing is a HUGE sigh of relief in Cubland.

newport king

02-26-2006, 05:02 PM

i say wood will be shut down for the season by june21.prior i'll give till aug 20. he'll probably have to shut it down from being hit while sitting on the bench from a donut flying in from the batters box... or some crazy shit like that.

TheMojoPin

02-26-2006, 05:38 PM

If anything, Wood moves to to the 'pen if he can't hack it as a fulltime starter, mayber even as the closer.  But I doubt short of his arm falling off he's going out for more than a couple of weeks.  Again, contract year.  Everything is on the ine in terms of his future with the sport.  He HAS to step up.

Hagar

02-27-2006, 04:46 PM

why is there no buzz around the world baseball classic. gives america a chance to save face.<img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a45/JLehane/BigHagarSigpic2Reduced.jpg" border="0" />

Snoogans

02-27-2006, 04:48 PM

fuck the world baseball classic. if david ortiz plays and gets hurt im gonna kick bud selig

Gvac

02-27-2006, 04:56 PM

My Reds will have an absurd amount of home run power again this
year, with an outfield consisting of Wily Mo Pena, Ken Griffey Jr, and
Austin Kearns.  Adam Dunn will be playing first base.  There
will also be an immense amount of strikeouts.Once again, the
organization has done little to improve the positively dreadful
pitching situation.  Look for Cincy to be somewhere around .500
with a load of 10-8 type games.

WindowSill

02-28-2006, 03:50 AM

No offense but I think theyll finish fifth again. I think Pittsburgh
will suprise everyone this year. Oliver Perez is a year removed from an
awesome season. Zach Duke, Paul Malolm?, and Ian Snell all have
potential coming out of their ass. Granted we've heard that before.
Victor Santos and Wells are solid. The Sean Casey, Joe Randa, Jeromy
Burnitz aquisitions were solid. THey have a real closer with real stuff
in Mike Gonzalez now. And a real manager with real manging stuff now in
Jim Tracy. I say they finish as high as second...

TheMojoPin

02-28-2006, 05:49 AM

You better hope so, otherwise they'll just trade away most of their good young players by the deadline, like they always do.But, even so, nobody is projecting the Pirates to do anything.  In the NL Central, if anybody is just a year or two away from possibly breaking out, I'd say it's the Brewers.

badorties

02-28-2006, 07:54 AM

WindowSill wrote: Victor Santos and Wells are solid. did they shut down wells yet over his blood clot yet ...?

WindowSill

02-28-2006, 12:31 PM

I named 6 guys. Even if the the staff becomes younger with Snell
instead of Wells, it doesnt neccesarilly...(how the fuck do you spell
that?) make them worse. The guy is a 4 inning pitcher anyway, to hell
with him.

Knowledged_one

02-28-2006, 12:39 PM

David Wells christ who will the red sox bring back next Oil Can Boyd? Edit: I am an ass and assumed you meant Wells with the Red Sox, i will not change my post rather leave it up as a mark of shame for attempting to be a smart ass

This message was edited by Knowledged_one on 2-28-06 @ 4:41 PM

Tall_James

02-28-2006, 12:42 PM

And independent Arizona sources are reporting that Wade Miller's rehab is coming along WAY ahead of schedule. Are these the same independent sources who said the exact same thing about Miller last year when he came to the Red Sox?Poor Mojo.  I had that same hopeful feeling about Miller last year that you have now.

TheMojoPin

02-28-2006, 02:05 PM

Hey, ANY playing time Miller gets is a bonus.  They signed him for a one year/one million deal, so hey, if he's a wash, big deal.  If he can be ready by May as projected to cover for Wood or Prior if they need to rest a couple starts, fantastic.  If he's healthy enough to be the #4 or #3 starter, even better.  If not, the Cubs have 2 very solid pitchers that can do the same things.

WindowSill

03-01-2006, 03:53 AM

As disturbing as this image is<img width="195" height="262" border="0" src="http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/mlb/2006/0228/photo/g_bonds_195.jpg" />Its kinda nice to  see Barry Bonds show off his "human side".For those of you who havent heard about it, theres a clip from <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2348706" target="_self">ESPNews </a>...

MHasegawa

03-02-2006, 09:31 AM

mets-cards on xm 187 nowbucs-nats on xm 183 nowphils-yanks on xm 184 nowA's-cubs on xm 188 at 3pmbosox-twins on xm 180 at 7pm

Greggie44

03-02-2006, 03:09 PM

Caught a good chunk of the Cubs-Athletics on the radio today.  Cubs pulled it out in the bottom of the ninth.  Pat and Ron were in midseason form already.  They are my second favorite radio team behind Ron and Fez.  If you guys haven't heard them before check out Cubs home games on XM this year.  Pat Hughes is one of the funniest guys around.

Fallon

03-02-2006, 07:31 PM

David Wells christ who will the red sox bring back next
Oil Can Boyd?

<a target='blank' href=http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/05/17/rusty_can_says_hes_returnable/>Maybe.</a>

Sox are trying to trade Wells to a California team. He wants to play near his home.

WindowSill

03-03-2006, 11:28 AM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2352970" target="_self">Wood to undergo minor surgery on his right knee</a>

TheMojoPin

03-03-2006, 04:52 PM

I'd say I was surprised...but then I'd be a liar.That said, a knee scope is nothing these days.  My dad had one last year and he's almost 50 and less than 2 weeks later he was playing basketball again.  Football players get it done and Monday and play on Sunday.  Granted, this'll set Wood back 2-3 weeks because it's fucking Mr. Glass Wood and he'll have to reset his spring training, but hey, he's still on target to start in early May.  If he can get through at least 20 starts, great.  If he can't and goes on to own in the pen, fantastic.  If he can't do either, SEEYUH.

Snoogans

03-03-2006, 06:27 PM

I just caught some of the yankee game this afternoon after the knicks, and man is this howard kid on philly something. His swing looks JUST like cliff floyd, but he looks patient and hit a ball that might still not have landed

HBox

03-06-2006, 07:42 PM

This is innappropriate for the Puckett thread, and maybe it's inappropriate anywhere right now, but who cares. This always bugs the hell out of me when I hear how great a player Puckett is. Here are some of his career numbers, along with those of a mystery player:               BA        H         2B        HR       RBI           BB          SO       SLG       .OBP     .OPS Puckett   .318    2304      414      207       1085         450         965       .477        .360       .837 Player     .307    2153      442      222       1099         588         444       .471        .358       .829  Both players had their careers ended by injury at 34. (A clue!) Puckett is a first ballot Hall Of Famer. Mystery player will never make the Hall. I am willing to grudgingly accept that mystery player shouldn't be in the Hall (Another clue?), but not until Puckett is acknowledged as a colossal mistake. So who is the mystery player?

Marc with a c

03-06-2006, 07:47 PM

sour mattingly fan?the only good thing he ever did was grow a sweet moustache.

HBox

03-06-2006, 07:49 PM

If you want to make an argument in the face of near identical stats, go ahead.

Marc with a c

03-06-2006, 07:50 PM

neither of them belong.and jack morris had a better 'stache. argue that.

HBox

03-06-2006, 07:51 PM

Well, that's what I said! What are we arguing about? I'm not about to argue gay porn staches.

Marc with a c

03-06-2006, 07:54 PM

i dont have a problem with the porn staches.i understand the HOF argument.  but i am sick of everytime Pucketts name comes up a yankee fan talks about mattingly.

HBox

03-06-2006, 07:57 PM

I reserve the space of this post for a snotty, insulting remark to be edited in after a proper period of mourning.

Marc with a c

03-06-2006, 07:59 PM

i reserve this space for a dig at yankee fans. at any time.

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 08:00 PM

It's not exactly a fair comparison.  Kirby maintained his numbers over 12 full seasons.  Mattingly's numbers are from 6 spectacular seasons, but he didn't maintain them for his entire career.  But, I agree that he belongs in the Hall.

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-7-06 @ 12:28 AM

HBox

03-06-2006, 08:06 PM

<a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mattido01.shtml" target="_blank">I just noticed this. This is Mattingly's Baseball Reference page. Look who sponsered it. That's really sweet,</a>

HBox

03-06-2006, 08:10 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: It's not exactly a fair comparison. Kirby maintained his numbers over 11 full seasons. Mattingly's numbers are from 6 spectacular seasons, but he didn't maintain them for his entire career. But, I agree that he belongs in the Hall.  But while Puckett's illness struck out of nowhere and immediately forced him out of baseball, Mattingly's back was hurting for a quite a few seasons.I used to think Mattingly deserved to be in the HOF, but that was emotional, wanting my favorite player growing up to be acknowledged. But just looking at both those numbers, those aren't HOF numbers. That Puckett made it FIRST BALLOT, and Mattingly ain't ever gonna make it is salt in the wound.Oh well, I'm a Yankee fan, I'll go find 100 other things in Yankee history to cheer me up.

TheMojoPin

03-06-2006, 08:34 PM

Kirby's numbers ARE HOF numbers, because he did them consistently for 12 seasons!  Not only that, unlike a lot of "superstars," the guy never choked in the postseason and often did even better there than he did in the regular season.  Had the vision problem not showed up, he almost certainly could've kept putting up those stats for 15+ seasons.  That's incredible.  Granted, that's a big "what if," but not too much of a stretch.  He was hitting, what, .363 in spring training when the glaucoma hit him?Mattingly's 6 great seasons are some of the best any player has put up...but for better or for worse, that's what ended up with.  I can see the argument that putting him in would be an infinitely larger "what if" than with Kirby, since he only played 11 seasons total and was pretty much slowing down when he ended his career (specifically, the season before he technically ended his career).Maybe I'm too generous.  I think they both belong in the Hall.  But I also think using Kirby as a reason for Mattingly is incredibly inaccurate.

spoon

03-06-2006, 10:53 PM

It's so simple that your argument doesn't make sense.  Read this and try to argue he shouldn't be in and Don even comes close.  You have to make these decissions on a case by case basis, and Puckett quite simply is the best Twin player ever.  Hands down.  It isn't even close.  Don was only a good player on the Yankees, Puckett was an awesome two-way player."A PROVEN TEAM LEADER WITH AN EVER-PRESENT SMILE AND INFECTIOUS EXUBERANCE WHO LED THE TWINS TO WORLD SERIES TITLES IN 1987 AND 1991. OVER 12 SEASONS HIT FOR POWER AND AVERAGE, BATTING .318 WITH 414 DOUBLES AND 207 HOME RUNS. ALSO A PROLIFIC RUN PRODUCER, SCORED 1,071 RUNS AND DROVE IN 1,085 IN 1,783 GAMES. A SIX-TIME GOLD GLOVE WINNER WHO PATROLLED CENTER FIELD WITH ELEGANCE AND STYLE, ROUTINELY SCALING OUTFIELD WALLS TO TAKE AWAY HOME RUNS. THE 10-TIME ALL-STAR'S CAREER ENDED ABRUPTLY DUE TO IRREVERSIBLE RETINAL DAMAGE IN HIS RIGHT EYE." <div class="greyDark">Summary of Accomplishments:</div><div class="greyDark">• 10-time All-Star (1986-1995) • All-Star Game MVP (1993) • Six-time Gold Glove winner (1986-1989, 1991-1992) • ALCS Most Valuable Player (1991) • Five-time Silver Slugger • Clemente Award winner (1996) </div>

Patches

03-06-2006, 10:56 PM

Easiest. Argument. Ever. Rings- Puckett- 2, Mattingly- 0.  There is your difference.

spoon

03-06-2006, 11:09 PM

Yet you have to tie it to a great career as well.  If not, Pat Borders would be in the HOF.

HBox

03-06-2006, 11:13 PM

Mattingly never had the talent around him that Puckett had. And he only played in one postseason series, which was in his last season, in which his back was so bad he had to completely change his swing to complete the season. Oh yeah, and here's his stats from that series:5 G, 24 AB, 3 R, 10 H, 4 2B, 1 HR, 6 RBI, .417 BA.Mattingly had his chance to play in the postseason, in his worst physical consition, and that's what he did. He led the team in hits, RBIs and doubles.

Patches

03-06-2006, 11:26 PM

HBox wrote: Mattingly never had the talent around him that Puckett had. And he only played in one postseason series, which was in his last season, in which his back was so bad he had to completely change his swing to complete the season. Oh yeah, and here's his stats from that series: 5 G, 24 AB, 3 R, 10 H, 4 2B, 1 HR, 6 RBI, .417 BA.Mattingly had his chance to play in the postseason, in his worst physical consition, and that's what he did. He led the team in hits, RBIs and doubles.oh, boo fuckin hoo...I'm sick of the Mattingly HOF arguments.  Shut up already.  He was a loser.  Mattingly Curse is real. The day he walks through the doors of Cooperstown, Keith Hernandez better be waiting on the other side with an LV slugger with Donnie's name on it.

TheMojoPin

03-07-2006, 04:36 PM

<a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/03/06/news.excerpt/index.html" target="_blank">Soooooooooooo...when are we gonna talk about the elephant in the corner?</a>

HBox

03-07-2006, 04:43 PM

Do we still need to talk about that elephant in the corner that we've been talking about since 2000? That's like somebody coming to me and telling me the sun rose this morning. It'll be a travesty if he breaks Aaron's record.

Gvac

03-07-2006, 04:47 PM

I honestly don't know what the solution is when it comes to Hall of
Fame election time for Messrs. Bonds, McGwire, & Sosa. 
Although we don't know for a fact that there was steroid use, we know.This book coming out on Bonds detailing his steroid use will stimulate the arguments again, but is there any real answer?

TheMojoPin

03-07-2006, 04:51 PM

The book makes it pretty hard to deny any of it.  I'm thinking the MLB is eventually going to have to act on the matter in regards to whether or not Bonds plays this year.  The question is whether or not they go beyond that, or they make Bonds the sacrifical scapegoat and hope that tossing him out takes the heat off.

TheMojoPin

03-07-2006, 04:58 PM

Plus, if the timetable in the article is accurate, he was taking or started taking a lot of these things when they weren't illegal to use.  So what then?And don't get me wrong, I can't stand Bonds.  He was prick even when he wasn't juicing...he made it so easy to not like him.  But even the mountain of evidence this article and book seem to have don't make this any more cut and dry.<a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/2006/03/06/bonds.years/index.1.exclude.html" target="_blank">The article has a photo gallery that really shows how freakishly he expanded his physique with the drugs.  Just look at his head literally swell!</a>

FUNKMAN

03-07-2006, 05:05 PM

doesn't the fact that Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth most likely never took steroids but yet hit so many home runs kind of 'lighten' the affect/impact that steroids may have had with helping Bonds, McGwire, or Sosa's home run count? It looks like Arod may eventually be in contention for one of the all-time home-run leaders and he's not on steroids 'as far as we know'.These guys still have to hit the ball 'pretty perfectly' square on the bat to get it over the fence. I wouldn't think steroids makes your swing more accurate...just some discussion points...

TheMojoPin

03-07-2006, 05:15 PM

There is the argument to be made that this is just the evolution of sport technology and medicine over time.  There's countless changes in the game since Ruth and Aaron's eras that are perfectly legal and acceptable that arguably make players now infinitely better or give them more chances to be better than Ruth or Aaron.But at the same time, the book is showing Bonds pretty obviously went above and beyond any reasonable level of enhancement.

FUNKMAN

03-07-2006, 05:22 PM

it seemed like when he came back from injury this past year he was still sending them out "or am i mistaken?" i don't follow that closely.  let's see how he does this year because they must have been testing him when he came back from his injury and you'd have to assume he'd be getting tested now and would he risk getting caught?  maybe? i'd tend to think not but who knows? maybe he's got some way to get around the tests or he just happens to have the ability to hit the ball accurately and out of the park?

HBox

03-07-2006, 05:26 PM

FUNKMAN wrote: it seemed like when he came back from injury this past year he was still sending them out "or am i mistaken?" i don't follow that closely. let's see how he does this year because they must have been testing him when he came back from his injury and you'd have to assume he'd be getting tested now and would he risk getting caught? maybe? i'd tend to think not but who knows? maybe he's got some way to get around the tests or he just happens to have the ability to hit the ball accurately and out of the park?  I don't think they test for human growth hormone, and he's taken that. And who knows what kind of cutting edge undetectable steroids are out there right now? Guys like Bonds who have been caught do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. It's a cloud that will always be over him and Giambi, and it's all their own fault.

FUNKMAN

03-07-2006, 05:30 PM

hotbox wrote: It's a cloud that will always be over him and Giambi, and it's all their own fault. if they have clouds over them then what does Raphael Palmero have? He got struck by lightning ten times over...

HBox

03-07-2006, 05:38 PM

Well, I was just talking about active players, and I'm sure I was forgetting others, but you get the drift.

MHasegawa

03-08-2006, 04:18 AM

NO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOF

jess87

03-08-2006, 04:34 AM

Yeah but what about him being such a great base stealer think he's had hundreads of em

Patches

03-08-2006, 04:51 AM

MHasegawa wrote: NO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOF Can we please stop hiding behind this?  Face facts- your heroes are liars and cheats.  It's because of looking the other way by the fans, the media, the comissioner, et al, that we got to this point to begin with... Out of sight, out of mind isn't going to cut it anymore.

HBox

03-08-2006, 05:16 AM

MHasegawa wrote: NO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOFNO PROOF   This post reminds me of the Chappelle's Show skit where Dave is trying to defend R. Kelly in the face of the sex tape. What, do you need Bonds caught on video, with multiple syringes stuck in his ass, while he's holding his ID to the camera, with his grandmother on video saying that's Barry, Victor Conte with a detailed list of what Barry is and has injected and with a police officer observing?

A.J.

03-08-2006, 05:25 AM

"They can manipulate video!"<img height="100" src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v73/ReneR/avatars/ChappellePiss.gif" width="120" border="0" />

Patches

03-08-2006, 06:12 AM

Back to the  HOF argument, why not Keith Hernandez (if Puckett)?                  BA        H         2B        HR       RBI           BB          SO       SLG       .OBP     .OPS Puckett      .318    2304      414      207       1085         450         965       .477        .360       .837Mattingly    .307    2153      442      222       1099         588         444       .471        .358       .829Hernandez .296    2182      426       162      1071         1070        1012     .436        .384      .820Awards for Hernandez:5 All Star Games1979 NL Co-MVP, 2nd in 1984, 4th in 198611 Consecutive Gold Gloves (1979-1988)Batting Champ, 1979 (.344)Led the league in doubles, 1979Led the league in runs, 1979, 1980Led the league in walks, 1986Integral part of 2 world championships (1982 STL Cardinals, 1986 NY Mets)

MHasegawa

03-08-2006, 06:58 AM

The only reason Mex won't be in the hall of fame is because of his cocaine use, damn shame; one of the best 1b's ever to play the game.

Patches

03-08-2006, 07:20 AM

MHasegawa wrote: The only reason Mex won't be in the hall of fame is because of his cocaine use, damn shame; one of the best 1b's ever to play the game. Don't make you a bad person, remember?And Puckett was the consumate role model?

HBox

03-08-2006, 08:25 AM

[color=navy][size=2]I can't believe you were serious about Keith Hernandez. Just to be clear, I don't think Mattingly or Puckett should be in the hall. But you can't put Hernandez on their level. Let's just add one thing to the above statistics to put them in better perspective:                          Seasons          AB            Games               Plate Appearances  Puckett                   12            7244             1783                           7831 Mattingly                14             7003            1785                           7721 Hernandez              17             7370            2088                           8553 So Hernandez has three seasons on Mattingly and 5 on Puckett and almost a thousand plate appearances over Mattingly and Puckett, yet has less HRs and RBIs, barely more hits than Mattingly and much less than Puckett, less 2Bs and his slugging percentage is well lower than either. The only thing he has over both of them is walks. But let's compare each of their best seasons:                            AVG.         H            2B            HR           RBI          Puckett                 .356         234           42             24           121Mattingly               .324         211           53            35            145 Hernandez             .344         210           48            11            105A difference, but not a stark one, except when you consider Mattingly and Puckett put together a few seasons rivaling these numbers, while Hernandez never had 100+ RBIs ever again, or before, and this was his only season with 200+ hits while Puckett had 5 and Mattingly had 3. Hernandez was never as dominant as Mattingly and Puckett were in their peaks. Hernandez has seomwhat decent postseason numbers, but in his 5 postseason series has only one that can barely compare to Mattingly's, and he doesn't even compare at all to Puckett. Hell, he has as many postseason HRs

TheMojoPin

03-08-2006, 09:15 AM

Heh, I was gonna chime in on this, but I'm a firm believer that Ron Santo deserves to be in the HOF, so I'll zip it.Back on Bonds, the more I think about, the more complicated this actually is.  The book and article seem to point out he didn't start using steriods until 1998, and by 2003 he stopped, probably stopped more specifically early in 2002.  During that time, what he was supposedly taking was not illegal.  Plus, say Bonds had retired in '98.  His numbers up until that point would have, in my opinion, gotten him into the HOF, easy.  So if the issue is "does Bonds belong in the HOF," I'm honestly not sure.  And if the question is, "does he still deserve to play," again, maybe.  If he's not on any illegal substances now, and at the time none of them were illegal, what grounds can they kick him out on?  I say let him play...every team should just walk his fat ass.  He can't run for shit...don't give him anything he can hit.  That would be much more satsifying to watch than him being told he can't play.

A.J.

03-08-2006, 10:02 AM

I liked this except from the Bonds book:Bonds's gaudy numbers would make him an MVP once again. Even better, the Giants made it to the World Series. And, for the first time, Bonds produced in the postseason: Against the Anaheim Angels he hit .471 with four home runs and a garish on-base percentage of .700. But the Angels won the Series in seven games, and Bonds told friends that perhaps he was fated only to set individual records but never to play on a championship team. Yep.  Fitting for a selfish, self-absorbed prick.  You had your best shot with Pittsburgh 1991-92 and you sucked.

Greggie44

03-08-2006, 10:18 AM

I wonder if the I.R.S. will look into the unreported appearance monies Bonds earned.  If they decide to do that, will that open up a can of worms with a bunch of other players?

Snoogans

03-09-2006, 01:36 PM

Selig might suspend bonds before opening day, and said that after reading the book, it was "much worse" then he thought

BoondockSaint

03-09-2006, 02:06 PM

Where did you see that?

Snoogans

03-09-2006, 06:57 PM

I heard it on ESPN when I posted. Then I went to sleep so I don't know if anything else was posted about it.

FezPaul

03-09-2006, 07:45 PM

World Series wins in the 21st century                                                                 Arizona Diamondbacks   1                                                                  New York Yankees       0                            

This message was edited by FezPaul on 5-9-06 @ 8:34 PM

cougarjake13

03-11-2006, 07:57 AM

FezPaul wrote:                World Series wins in the 21st century              Arizona Diamondbacks   1                New York Yankees       0               although it pains me to say it, being a yankee hater and all but the yanks did win in 2000 which makes you incorrect, so it's actually tied 1-1

FezPaul

03-11-2006, 08:03 AM

cougarjake13 wrote:  although it pains me to say it, being a yankee hater and all but the yanks did win in 2000 which makes you incorrect, so it's actually tied 1-12000 was the last year of the 20th century, learn to count dude.

cougarjake13

03-11-2006, 08:08 AM

FezPaul wrote:  2000 was the last year of the 20th century, learn to count dude.but then why was the new years of 99 into 2000 said to be the end of the millenium, and not 2000 -2001 as you would have me believedecades begin with 0 and end in 9 example being 1990-1999and i know how to count and this has nothing to do with knowing how to count

Snoogans

03-11-2006, 08:21 AM

no, you are wrong cougar. the new milenium started in 01

HBox

03-11-2006, 08:26 AM

World Series wins in the years 1998-2000:NYY: 3Everyone else: 0Look, I can make pointless, insignificant, short-sighted, unknowledgable, troll-like flame-baiting posts too!

Snoogans

03-11-2006, 08:29 AM

stop living in the past, the only ones who have the right to throw around the WS right now are White Sox fans. Everyone else has nothing at the moment

cougarjake13

03-11-2006, 08:29 AM

Snoogans wrote: no, you are wrong cougar. the new milenium started in 01 so you're saying that decades are from 1 to 0, example again being 1991-2000 ? and centuries would be 1901- 2000 and millenium from 1001-2000 ??well at least this website seems to back me up on the 0-9 theory 90-99<a href="http://www.unit5.org/cjhsimc/hotlists/decades/decades_main.htm">http://www.unit5.org/cjhsimc/hotlists/decades/decades_main.htm</a>

Snoogans

03-11-2006, 08:31 AM

no, decades have no bearing on things. There was no 0 year. So the first millenium was year 1- the end of 1000, and so on. Decades were just a way to make it easier to refer to a group of years.

TheMojoPin

03-11-2006, 08:32 AM

Sweet Jumping Jesus, next post about the fucking Yankees in this thread and I'm locking the ACTUAL Yankees thread.

Snoogans

03-11-2006, 08:33 AM

put it this way, we are talkin a milenium which is 1000 years.1-1000, 1001-2000, 2001-3000 etc. it doesnt matter what any website says, there is proof right there. I just showed you. There is no such thing as a 999 year milenium

HBox

03-11-2006, 08:45 AM

stop living in the past, the only ones who have the right to throw
around the WS right now are White Sox fans. Everyone else has nothing
at the moment Now, here's a guy who completely missed the point!<img width="239" height="229" border="0" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/John-madden.jpg" /> 

This message was edited by HBox on 3-11-06 @ 12:45 PM

cougarjake13

03-11-2006, 08:47 AM

Snoogans wrote: put it this way, we are talkin a milenium which is 1000 years.1-1000, 1001-2000, 2001-3000 etc. it doesnt matter what any website says, there is proof right there. I just showed you. There is no such thing as a 999 year milenium but what about year 0, if you start from zero its 0-999 which is 1000 years, as would be 1000-1999, etc.so it just depends on what you start from 0 or 1

Snoogans

03-11-2006, 08:48 AM

no HBox, i got your point, and actually laughed. the comment was directed more at the people who make the comments seriously. Im a red sox fan and i cant stand when people do it. The funniest part is, alot of the people who rip the yanks for not winning titles, i find they root for teams who havent won one in 20 years

Snoogans

03-11-2006, 08:49 AM

THERE WAS NO YEAR 0it starts with year 1

cougarjake13

03-11-2006, 09:03 AM

Snoogans wrote: THERE WAS NO YEAR 0it starts with year 1  yeh i dont know why i was thinking there was a year zero must be the math in my head

FezPaul

03-11-2006, 10:30 AM

Good, now that that's settled, can we get back to bashing the Yankees?                     AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNND  scene..........

spoon

03-12-2006, 09:27 AM

OK, Jeter's still gay and Arod, well that's just toooooo easy.

Bulldogcakes

03-14-2006, 05:51 PM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2368874" target="_self" title="Bad news Mojo">Bad news Mojo</a>MESA, Ariz. -- <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chn">Chicago Cubs</a> pitcher <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6787">Mark Prior</a> will see a specialist in Los Angeles on Wednesday after cutting short a throwing session due to soreness in his right shoulder. Prior was scheduled to pitch off the mound Tuesday, but he never got there. The shoulder flared up during long tossing."It wasn't getting loose so we weren't going to try it," pitching coach Larry Rothschild said.The right-hander will be examined by Dr. Lewis Yocum."He had some posterior cuff irritation that obviously we need to get evaluated," trainer Mark O'Neal said.Meanwhile, first baseman <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5775">Derrek Lee</a>
visited Yocum on Tuesday after he bruised his left shoulder diving to
catch a foul ball during the United States' victory over Japan on
Sunday at the World Baseball Classic. <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2368874" target="_self" title="Bad news Mojo"></a>

Bulldogcakes

03-14-2006, 05:52 PM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2368719" target="_self" title="Gooden back in jail">Gooden back in jail</a>TAMPA, Fla. -- Former baseball star Dwight Gooden was arrested Tuesday on charges of violating the terms of his probation.The
41-year-old pleaded guilty in November to speeding away from police
after a DUI traffic stop in August 2005 and was sentenced to three
years' probation. On Tuesday he went to a regular meeting with a
probation officer, where he admitted to using cocaine, according to Jo
Ellyn Rackleff, a spokeswoman for the Department of Corrections."He
went to his regular meeting with his probation officer, admitted to the
officer that he had used cocaine. She did a drug screen, and he tested
positive for cocaine," Rackleff said. <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2368719" target="_self" title="Gooden back in jail"></a>

TheMojoPin

03-14-2006, 08:03 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: <a title="Bad news Mojo" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2368874" target="_self">Bad news Mojo</a> MESA, Ariz. -- <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chn">Chicago Cubs</a> pitcher <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6787">Mark Prior</a> will see a specialist in Los Angeles on Wednesday after cutting short a throwing session due to soreness in his right shoulder.  Prior was scheduled to pitch off the mound Tuesday, but he never got there. The shoulder flared up during long tossing."It wasn't getting loose so we weren't going to try it," pitching coach Larry Rothschild said.The right-hander will be examined by Dr. Lewis Yocum."He had some posterior cuff irritation that obviously we need to get evaluated," trainer Mark O'Neal said.Meanwhile, first baseman <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5775">Derrek Lee</a> visited Yocum on Tuesday after he bruised his left shoulder diving to catch a foul ball during the United States' victory over Japan on Sunday at the World Baseball Classic.    <a title="Bad news Mojo" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2368874" target="_self"></a>This REALLY pisses me off.  Not even that Prior is having a slow ST...he's had that for the last 2 years, and always started great (missing 1 or 2 starts, tops) until the freak accidents that sidelined him.  Odds are, he'll make his second start, but...the fucking organization has been lying its ass off AGAIN, pretending like nothing was wrong.  Fuck the Tribune, man...SELL THE DAMN TEAM!

spoon

03-16-2006, 12:29 AM

Our bet just keeps looking better and better.  How's Lee?

TheMojoPin

03-16-2006, 06:39 AM

Bruised shoulder.  At the very worst he drops out of the WBC and heads back to Cubs' spring training and that's that.  As it stands, he'll probably sit out the next WBC game and if they advance, he'll be back playing.Yeah, that bet is looking worse and worse.  The more I think about Prior, the more I worry he just doesn't have the mental stuff after his injuries to be a great pitcher.  I think he might be buying into his own injury "hype" and not going all out or thinking he may be injured when he's not.  I'm hoping...but I'm expecting disaster.  On the upside, Wade Miller and Kerry Wood are WAY ahead of schedule, and will be starting first week of May at the latest.  Zambrano's looking good, and Maddux is Maddux.  In the meantime, they need to let prospects like Rich Hill and Angel Guzman into the show and see what they have.But now there's all this talk that the Cubs are gonna trade Todd Walker to the Orioles for Luis fucking Matos.  Christ, what a waste.  Walker is talking shit, and yeah, he's been on 6 teams in the last 8 years, but they NEED his .300 bat at 2nd, and in the #2 slot.ECH.

TheMojoPin

03-16-2006, 08:22 AM

Well, according to reports to the SCORE radio network in Chicago, Prior doesn't look to be in TOO bad a shape...Per WSCR, Mark Prior has a posterior shoulder strain. Though the news is incomplete, O’Neal takes this as good news. He said he will not throw for at least a few days. He is getting an MRI this morning and will see Yocum again on Saturday for a more complete diagnosis.Obviously, I'm still crossing all my fingers and toes, but dear Lord, please make it along these lines.  A strain is almost always nothing in terms of pitcher arm/shoulder injuries...I was worried it was a tear, which would be devastating.

HBox

03-16-2006, 09:42 AM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2371102" target="_blank">Jays sign Roy Halladay to an extension through 2010. </a>I don't like this trend of smaller teams developing stud pitchers and then signing them long term. They're all supposed to end up on the Yankees dammit. <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2371102" target="_blank"></a>

TheMojoPin

03-16-2006, 11:09 AM

I know I'm betting against them with Spoon, but damn, losing that bet will be sweet if the Jays manage to trump both the Red Sox AND the Yankees.

spoon

03-16-2006, 03:02 PM

It would be sweet, but very fucking hard to pull off.  They are heading in the right direction, and if the two power teams in the AL East stumble like last year, don't be shocked if the Jays take advantage this time. 

Bulldogcakes

03-16-2006, 03:56 PM

Take a closer look at the Red Sox. Still have Manny and Ortiz, but the rest of the lineup is who cares. And their Pitching staff is Old, Older, Young/Question mark, Who cares, Who cares, and Who? Plus the Blue Jays OWNED the Sox last year. I say Yanks-DivisionBlue Jays-Wild Card Red Sox-Rebuilding by mid season trading deadline

newport king

03-16-2006, 05:56 PM

Im watching the WBC, and scrolling along the bottom, Selig is unsure if he wants to investigate Bonds. And the only way a suspension is likely is if he is indicted on perjury or tax evasion.My take is this, Bonds is not liked for many reasons, and he's getting too close to the most sacred of all sports records. Selig is doing a good job of not infuriating the players union by comitting to an all out investigation. Baseball has some pretty close political ties. Is there any chance an indictment can be passed down to make things a bit easier on Selig and the national past time? If he gets suspended, who knows how long the suspension will be for? Maybe an entire season. He's not exactly a young man. And the sport will not have to go through the embarassment of having a cheat as its all time HR king. thoughts???

Snoogans

03-16-2006, 05:59 PM

let em do it. we need an all drug olympics like the old SNL bit. who the fuck cares if they wanna kill themselves faster, or its tainted or whatever, i give up, i dont care anymore. I just want to be entertained, i wanna see 500 foot homers and i dont give a shit how it happens

spoon

03-17-2006, 05:21 PM

Yocum if you got'um Mojo!

spoon

03-17-2006, 05:40 PM

I'm going the complete opposite way you tart!  Clean up the fucking sport once and for all.  No more bullshit testing and pandering to the union.  Just who are they protecting?  Idiotic if you ask me!  Just like Snoogan's answer!  Someone must have been channeling Justice and his sports knowledge on that one!  Go go gadget brain cells!

TheMojoPin

03-17-2006, 07:42 PM

Slow down there, Spork.  Snoogans may be blunt (har-har), but he does speak a bit of truth...what's the cut off point for what players can and can't take?  If something isn't illegal to be used by the public at large, why not the players?  If the issue is breaking records, don't they ALL get asterisks, since equipment and workout routines and diet habits have changed SO much over the decades?  Players today have countless tools to potentially or definitely improve their game that others wouldn't have had 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago, and on and on and on.  How is it determined what's true to the game and what isn't?  Technology and science advance...shouldn't baseball advance with it?Personally, I'm with the zero tolerance policy...I think they need to sit down and figure this out...involve doctors and scientists and whoever needs to be there to figure out once and for all when a line has been crossed in terms of what players can put into their body.  But...at the same time, it's not totally insane to suggest allowing these things, to some degree.

spoon

03-17-2006, 07:57 PM

I'll simplify it further.  If it's illegal in everyday life, it surely isn't allowed in the world of MLB.  Technology with equipment is a totally different issue, one that affects golf more than any other sport right now, but different from what were discussing here.  Bonds and others are doing something that gives them an illegal advantage over other players even of their own era.  Sports adjust to technology and or make restrictions every year to limit the advancements in order to keep the sport "pure".  Such as limiting goalie pad size, hockey stick curves, metal bats in MLB, density of golf balls, design of drivers and on and on.  Yet most of the time these issues don't give one player an advantage over others that aren't willing to "cheat".  Let's be honest, that's what Bonds and many others did.  Sure he would have been great without the help, but he made a choice that for me makes him nothing but a cheater from here on in.  I agree that something needs to be done yesterday to fix this sport and many others in terms of steroids and whatever the new BALCOs of the day have created.  The olympics have gotten as much a hold on these things as possible, why can't MLB.  If they want bombs, keep moving the fences in.  At least it'll be on record as a change, not an * that Bonds surely deseerves.  Oh and spork?  I thought you were better then that!  That old gag, huh?  That's what you're bringing to the table?  Come on Mojo, I used to have faith in your ball-busting abilities.  Now you're in Justice Country too.  Perhaps a dip down to Waddles level soon?

TheMojoPin

03-17-2006, 08:05 PM

Actually, it was just a friendly jab, but if you're taking it so hard, I'll ease up.What Bonds was using at the time wasn't illegal.

spoon

03-17-2006, 08:08 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: Actually, it was just a friendly jab, but if you're taking it so hard, I'll ease up.What Bonds was using at the time wasn't illegal.Thanks for that friendly nudge, but it still sucked and was way below Mojo par.  And Bonds was on sooo many illegal substances it isn't even funny.

TheMojoPin

03-17-2006, 08:14 PM

I thought I read that the substances Bonds is accused of using either are not or at the time were not illegal.  If they were, well yeah, anything illegal should be banned.  Personally, I think guys who get busted for ANY illegal drug should be tossed out after two positive tests at the absolute very most.  But beyond that, a lot of "performance enhancers" that are frowned on by various sports organization are NOT illegal, and that's where the grey area comes in.  If it's not illegal, why not?

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-18-06 @ 12:16 AM

Snoogans

03-17-2006, 08:18 PM

illegal, not illegal who fuckin cares. its not just baseball, i dont care what they do in any sport. All i care about is that I have fun watching it. Id love to see golfers hit the ball 450 yards

spoon

03-18-2006, 11:37 AM

Mojo,The bet just took a turn in your direction today as Burnett went down with ??  Yocum on the horizon now for the Jays as well?  Just thought I'd update the pain I'm going through.

Bulldogcakes

03-18-2006, 04:26 PM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2374106" target="_self" title=" Wells blasts Francona"> Wells blasts Francona</a>  "What went on in that office should have stayed there in that office
and it shouldn't have come out to you guys," Wells told The Hartford
Courant in Saturday's edition. "So he's the idiot for saying that like
that, not me, because I didn't interpret it like that."Boston won't need a fifth starter until mid-April. Wells, who was
set back by offseason surgery on his right knee, would be the likely
candidate to be held back although he said his knee feels fine."I'd have a problem with that," he said Thursday.  "I don't see myself sitting until April 15 to wait to pitch," he said. "I just don't see it at all."

spoon

03-18-2006, 05:58 PM

The Jays played Boston today so I thought you meant Vernon Wells went after Francona.  Now that would have been out of character.  David on the other hand is a fuck up.

FezPaul

03-20-2006, 02:23 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: I thought I read that the substances Bonds is accused of using either are not or at the time were not illegal.  If they were, well yeah, anything illegal should be banned.  Okay, let's say Ty Cobb, and Babe Ruth drank liquor during prohibition.Does that subject their records to review?

Gvac

03-20-2006, 02:47 PM

I know my Reds are in desperate need of pitching so I guess I should
be happy about getting Bronson Arroyo, but I'm sad to see Wily Mo Pena
go.  I think the kid's got loads of potential.Besides, I just love saying "Wily Mo."

Bulldogcakes

03-20-2006, 03:19 PM

FezPaul wrote:Okay, let's say Ty Cobb, and Babe Ruth drank liquor during prohibition.Does that subject their records to review? Does being drunk or hungover make you hit the ball further? <blockquote />

Snoogans

03-20-2006, 04:24 PM

i kinda pose it like this BDC. You hit further, sure, but you still have to hit the ball. Maybe Mantle had a nervous thing that if he wasnt drunk, he would shake too much and be a terrible hitter, you dont know, no one knows, so who cares. Its for entertainment, and if it entertains me, i dont give a shit

Bulldogcakes

03-21-2006, 04:31 PM

Snoogans wrote: i kinda pose it like this BDC. You hit further, sure, but you still have to hit the ball Sure, and you could hit the ball to the warning track without the juice, or over the fence with it. If it doesn't give you an edge, why did he take it?  Its for entertainment, and if it entertains me, i dont give a shit  I couldn't disagree with that more. Sports has to have an element of fairness, and rules that enforce it. If its just entertainment, then it becomes pro wrestling. And no one would take it seriously anymore. If its just entertainment, then lets write a script for how the games play out. And Steinbrenner can pay the most to the writers, and the Yanks can win the World Series every year. 

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 3-21-06 @ 8:31 PM

El Mudo

03-21-2006, 05:05 PM

I REALLY liked what I saw out of Daisuke Matsuzaka last night in the WBC final....great fastball (95-96), an absolutely WICKED splitter...good breaking stuff...only problem is, he tends to get his breaking stuff too high and it gets sent into orbit...

I read he should be in the Majors next year....Seibu is going to let him go while they can still get something for him...

Snoogans

03-21-2006, 05:13 PM

scripted isnt entertainment. Play the game by the rules in the rule book. Baseball's rule book doesnt ban any substances, the game itself never banned substances until now, so WHO CARES if people took them before, they were allowed. So im not gonna be shocked and im not gonna be offended now. I WANNA SEE BASEBALLS LAND ON THE MASS PIKE

FezPaul

03-22-2006, 02:27 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  FezPaul wrote: Okay, let's say Ty Cobb, and Babe Ruth drank liquor during prohibition.Does that subject their records to review? Does being drunk or hungover make you hit the ball further?  bat speed, not big muscles, make the ball go farther.as for your question, mickey mantle was drunk or hungover for most of his career and he hit a lot of home runs, so based on the same logic being applied to steroids, the answer is yes.

Bulldogcakes

03-22-2006, 02:45 PM

Good news for Mojo 
<a href="http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060321cubs,1,973999.story?coll=cs-home-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true" target="_self" title="Wood's luck turning">Wood's luck turning</a>

Both Hendry and manager Dusty Baker hinted the corner may be approaching faster than they thought, at least for Wood. 
 
Baker said Tuesday Wood "very well could" return for the last week of April and Hendry said Wood "looks terrific." <a href="http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060321cubs,1,973999.story?coll=cs-home-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true" target="_self" title="Wood's luck turning"></a>

TheMojoPin

03-22-2006, 03:19 PM

Yeah, I've been, of course, following this very closely...both Wood and Wade Miller are way ahead of schedule, and should be back in the starting rotation by the end of April.  The frustrating irony is that they'll both be pitching before Prior does.

spoon

04-02-2006, 08:50 PM

MLB opening night is getting pissed on in Chi-town (Mojo's favorite side of town) and it looks like opening day has a ton of rain forecasted as well.  Why so quiet on the r/f mlb front?  Let's get this shit rolling!  And ESD's "yankee plane" as he called it last night is going down like " insert plane crash of past here".  Sorry my pasty ginger pal, but let's just hope West side is smart enough to pull for the Mets.

MissGradenko

04-02-2006, 09:08 PM

I just always liked the Yankees!  They win Championships for us!

Gvac

04-03-2006, 06:10 AM

Hallelujah - baseball's back!Hope springs eternal, even for a Cincinnati fan.<img border="0" src="http://images.customwebcart.com/big/big-30023-20149.gif" />

Snoogans

04-03-2006, 06:31 AM

I just always liked the Yankees!  They win Championships for us!  not lately

Gvac

04-03-2006, 10:08 AM

XM 185 - Cubs - Reds about to start.The real Opening Day.

Gvac

04-03-2006, 10:50 AM

Reds suck.Season's over.I hate baseball.

Duke

04-03-2006, 11:00 AM

gotta love the Padres washed up players are the keys to sucess

Fallon

04-03-2006, 11:52 AM

Gvac

04-03-2006, 11:54 AM

After giving up 5 runs in the top of the first inning, the Reds have rallied to tie the score at 5 after five innings.I never lost faith. 

This message was edited by Gvac on 4-3-06 @ 3:57 PM

FezPaul

04-03-2006, 12:35 PM

Gvac wrote: Hallelujah - baseball's back!Hope springs eternal, even for a Cincinnati fan.<img src="http://images.customwebcart.com/big/big-30023-20149.gif" border="0" /> http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f281/FezPaul/apocalypse-duvall.jpg "Any man brave enough to root for the Reds, can drink fom my canteen any day."

Gvac

04-03-2006, 01:57 PM

Reds suck.Season's over.I hate baseball.

cougarjake13

04-03-2006, 02:01 PM

Gvac wrote: Reds suck.Season's over.I hate baseball. hey man its baseball not ncaa football there's still 161 games leftand we must be on earth 2 because there are more pages in the mets season thread then the yanks

spoon

04-03-2006, 02:37 PM

It sucks when you have to wait a day extra for your opening day.  I guess it's better than being a Reds fan right now though.

TheGameHHH

04-03-2006, 04:00 PM

I have a massive hard on right now. I've been watching baseball since I walked through the door from work, and I've been looking at my fantasy stats about 50 times an hour. I can't fucking wait for the Yanks tonight, hopefully the weather isn't too bad in oakland and they'll play through the rain.

HBox

04-03-2006, 04:49 PM

So, uh, does anyone know if Ugueth Urbina is still in jail?

Bulldogcakes

04-03-2006, 05:03 PM

This is <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2309219" target="_self" title="the most recent">the most recent</a> thing I could find from ESPN. Chances are he's still sitting in jail. A Venezuelan judge on Friday denied relief pitcher <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5385">Ugueth Urbina</a>'s request to be released from prison pending his trial on attempted murder charges.

Urbina, who turns 32 on Feb. 15, was present at Friday's hearing. No trial date has been set.

MHasegawa

04-03-2006, 06:24 PM

We're gonna take it to those faggot Yanks tonight!! Heads up play, Kotsay.

Marc with a c

04-03-2006, 06:40 PM

cougarjake13 wrote: Gvac wrote: Reds suck.Season's over.I hate baseball. hey man its baseball not ncaa football there's still 161 games leftand we must be on earth 2 because there are more pages in the mets season thread then the yanksthe season is over for the reds.  and gvac how did you end up a reds fan?as for the number of pages devoted to each team.  it just shows the met fans are more faithful, and have bigger weiners.

HBox

04-03-2006, 06:49 PM

A-ROD.

MHasegawa

04-03-2006, 06:52 PM

I thnk Zito's ERA is 56

MHasegawa

04-03-2006, 06:54 PM

this is an ugly fuckin inning

HBox

04-03-2006, 06:54 PM

Beating the A's before the All-Star break is nothing, though. They're essentially the Royals until at least June.

TheMojoPin

04-03-2006, 08:17 PM

First of all, post about the fucking Yankees in the fucking Yankees' thread!Secondly, I take no joy in the Cubs trouncing the Reds.  The Cubs have huge blowout opening day victories 4 years now...and the last 3 years ended in heartbreak.  Bad sign!

FezPaul

04-03-2006, 08:19 PM

Somebody threw a syringe at Barry Bonds in San Diego.<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/clap.gif" border="0" />

FUNKMAN

04-03-2006, 08:45 PM

FezPaul wrote: Somebody threw a syringe at Barry Bonds in San Diego.<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/clap.gif" border="0" />i also heard other fans were needeling him...

MHasegawa

04-04-2006, 05:22 AM

TheMojoPin wrote: First of all, post about the fucking Yankees in the fucking Yankees' thread!Secondly, I take no joy in the Cubs trouncing the Reds. The Cubs have huge blowout opening day victories 4 years now...and the last 3 years ended in heartbreak. Bad sign! Dude, I was talking about the A's.

A.J.

04-04-2006, 05:27 AM

FUNKMAN wrote: FezPaul wrote: Somebody threw a syringe at Barry Bonds in San Diego.<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/clap.gif" border="0" />i also heard other fans were needeling him...Some people can't take a prick.

Bulldogcakes

04-04-2006, 05:48 PM

A.J. wrote: FUNKMAN wrote: FezPaul wrote: Somebody threw a syringe at Barry Bonds in San Diego.<img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/clap.gif" />i also heard other fans were needeling him...Some people can't take a prick. Gotta love a guy who can inject a little humor <blockquote />

Snoogans

04-05-2006, 10:38 AM

If the Reds blow this game they should be kicked out of the league

Marc with a c

04-05-2006, 10:40 AM

Snoogans wrote: If the Reds blow this game they should be kicked out of the league  if? <blockquote />

J.Clints

04-05-2006, 11:15 AM

evedder wrote:  Snoogans wrote: If the Reds blow this game they should be kicked out of the league  if?  WHEN

Snoogans

04-05-2006, 05:16 PM

MHasegawa

04-05-2006, 05:37 PM

I agree totally, Griffrey reminds me of Grant Hill.

A.J.

04-06-2006, 04:14 AM

I've been making the same comparison for a few years now.I'd rather see Junior about to pass Ruth and Aaron than that tool Barry Bonds.

Gvac

04-06-2006, 05:52 AM

Since he came up so young, it's hard to believe Griffey is only 36 years old.  Without all the injuries, like Snoogans said, he'd definitely be knocking on the door of some hallowed records.  And in his prime he was one hell of a centerfielder, too.  It's a shame the homecoming to Cincinnati never panned out as expected, but if he can put together a few more healthy and productive years, who knows?

Bulldogcakes

04-06-2006, 05:24 PM

A.J. wrote: I've been making the same comparison for a few years now.I'd rather see Junior about to pass Ruth and Aaron than that tool Barry Bonds. Within a few years, it'll probably be moot anyway. If A-Rod stays healthy, and keeps doing what he's been doing, he should (allowing for a drop off in production as he ages) be the first player to hit 800 HR's sometime around when he's 40 years old. If he gets hurt here and there, maybe 41 or 42.  By the time he's done, he might have every major hitting record in Baseball.  Griffey was on pace to do the same thing. The only difference is A-Rod has stayed healthy, Griffey didn't.  <blockquote />

Marc with a c

04-06-2006, 05:27 PM

thats a good point, but when a rod comes out of the closet it will probably effect his numbers.

Bulldogcakes

04-06-2006, 06:06 PM

You got me there.

cougarjake13

04-07-2006, 01:08 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: Griffey was on pace to do the same thing. The only difference is A-Rod has stayed healthy, Griffey didn't.     well as irony of ironies would have it griffey remained healthy for his first 12 seasons and in the 13th season began the injury bug.a rod is currently in his 13th season

Fallon

04-07-2006, 04:51 PM

O's stink.11-0 Sox in 5th.

MHasegawa

04-07-2006, 10:16 PM

Blanton was mowin em down tonight, 8 scoreless innings and gave up 2 hits.  If Zito gets his shit together, we'd have the best starting rotation in the majors.

cougarjake13

04-08-2006, 05:12 AM

MHasegawa wrote: Blanton was mowin em down tonight, 8 scoreless innings and gave up 2 hits.  If Zito gets his shit together, we'd have the best starting rotation in the majors.  i think the white sox have a better rotation then oaklandoaklandBarry Zito (L) Rich Harden (R) Esteban Loaiza (R) Dan Haren (R) Joe Blanton (R)white soxMark Buehrle (L) Freddy Garcia (R) Jose Contreras (R) Jon Garland (R) Javier Vazquez (R)

MHasegawa

04-08-2006, 06:50 AM

You have a point, Chi's staff is proven while Oak's are up and comers with the exception of Zito and Loaiza.

Crippler

04-08-2006, 07:16 AM

I just was reading ESPN.com and there is an article about griffey homering today. He has 537 in his career now. It just got me to thinking about how this guy pretty obviously never took steroids, played his heart out every game, jumped into walls, never was a dickhead. Took less money and in different structure to play at home. He also got hurt alot and never quit. Its a shame cause he is the one who should be going after the records and he would have done it the right way. It's hard to remember how good he was, but i think he is still the best player ive ever watched play.On that note, not for long. God I hope pujols breaks 73 homers so now one cares about Bonds anymore. Man can that kid play ======= Since he came up so young, it's hard to believe Griffey is only 36 years old.  Without all the injuries, like Snoogans said, he'd definitely be knocking on the door of some hallowed records.  And in his prime he was one hell of a centerfielder, too.  It's a shame the homecoming to Cincinnati never panned out as expected, but if he can put together a few more healthy and productive years, who knows?It boggles the mind to think back to just how good he was.  So good, that after years of severely reduced productivity due to injury & time on the field, and one year of a semi-comeback, at 36 he takes one swing in early April & passes Micky Mantle for all-time HRs and Joe D for all-time RBI.  Crazier still is that depending on his & Alez Rodriguez' longevity, one of them will probably be the best player of all time, with the other a close second.  Unless one of them has a Bonds-ian power surge at 36 or 37 and suddenly goes off the charts....naturally, of course.

Gvac

04-11-2006, 02:49 PM

I just wanted to personally thank the Boston Red Sox for sending us the power hitting sensation Bronson Arroyo.  He jacked one out of Wrigley today and pitched 7 scoreless innings.  So far he has 2 more homers this year than Wily Mo Pena.

FezPaul

04-11-2006, 02:50 PM

ATTENTION REDS FANS.WLW is now on XM 173.

This message was edited by FezPaul on 5-9-06 @ 8:37 PM

cougarjake13

04-12-2006, 01:05 PM

Gvac wrote: I just wanted to personally thank the Boston Red Sox for sending us the power hitting sensation Bronson Arroyo.  He jacked one out of Wrigley today and pitched 7 scoreless innings.  So far he has 2 more homers this year than Wily Mo Pena. if he keeps this up we might have the first ever MVP/Cy Young winner

Marc with a c

04-12-2006, 01:11 PM

cougarjake13 wrote: if he keeps this up we might have the first ever MVP/Cy Young winnerthats happened a couple of times already.  i know clemens did it.  i think bob gibson did it as well.

cougarjake13

04-12-2006, 01:18 PM

yeh i forgot about clemenswhat about the first pitcher to win a silver slugger award ??

Marc with a c

04-12-2006, 01:20 PM

they give those out for each postion every year.  pitchers too.

cougarjake13

04-12-2006, 02:12 PM

oh well boom goes the dynamite for me

WindowSill

04-12-2006, 03:13 PM

Yes but no one has won all THREE in one year...

HBox

04-13-2006, 04:23 PM

<a target="_blank" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2407968">Barry Bonds is being investigated for perjury in his testimony to the BALCO case grand jury.</a>Schadenfreude.<a target="_blank" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2407968"></a>

This message was edited by HBox on 4-13-06 @ 8:24 PM

Marc with a c

04-13-2006, 04:25 PM

WindowSill wrote: Yes but no one has won all THREE in one year... i think billy staples did

cougarjake13

04-14-2006, 12:09 PM

HBox wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2407968" target="_blank">Barry Bonds is being investigated for perjury in his testimony to the BALCO case grand jury.</a>Schadenfreude.<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2407968" target="_blank"></a>This message was edited by HBox on 4-13-06 @ 8:24 PM i heard on a sports talk radio show that if bonds is found guilty of perjury that mlb will erase all his records, which would include the 73 homers in one season, take that away and you get another admitted cheater in mcgwire with 70 since he admitted to taking andro which wasn't banned at the time and hasnt tested positive for anything else i guess he would have the record.personally they should erase bonds, mcgwires and sosa and go back to maris 61

Bulldogcakes

04-14-2006, 02:20 PM

cougarjake13 wrote:i heard on a sports talk radio show that if bonds is found guilty of perjury that mlb will erase all his records, which would include the 73 homers in one season, take that away and you get another admitted cheater in mcgwire with 70 since he admitted to taking andro which wasn't banned at the time and hasnt tested positive for anything else i guess he would have the record.personally they should erase bonds, mcgwires and sosa and go back to maris 61 <img width="350" height="552" border="0" src="http://www.wormsrus.co.nz/canoworms.jpg" /> <blockquote />

FezPaul

04-14-2006, 02:41 PM

Maybe they could put an * next to their records.Oh wait, they tried that once.

Gvac

04-14-2006, 02:58 PM

I refuse to even pay attention to the Barry Bonds saga.I'm just having a blast rooting for my FIRST PLACE Cincinnati Reds.  It's not often I get to say that.

FezPaul

04-14-2006, 03:12 PM

<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /> Gvac wrote: I refuse to even pay attention to the Barry Bonds saga.I'm just having a blast rooting for my FIRST PLACE Cincinnati Reds.  It's not often I get to say that. If it was spelled Sincinnati, they'd be in 3rd place.

FezPaul

04-17-2006, 07:50 PM

Casey Daigle just struck out Barry Bonds.Welcome to Earth 2.

spoon

04-17-2006, 11:06 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  A.J. wrote: I've been making the same comparison for a few years now.I'd rather see Junior about to pass Ruth and Aaron than that tool Barry Bonds. Within a few years, it'll probably be moot anyway. If A-Rod stays healthy, and keeps doing what he's been doing, he should (allowing for a drop off in production as he ages) be the first player to hit 800 HR's sometime around when he's 40 years old. If he gets hurt here and there, maybe 41 or 42.  By the time he's done, he might have every major hitting record in Baseball.  Griffey was on pace to do the same thing. The only difference is A-Rod has stayed healthy, Griffey didn't.   Great!  Arod and Peyton Manning have the records while everyone else win titles.  Fuck them both and way to homer it up again.

spoon

04-17-2006, 11:26 PM

cougarjake13 wrote: MHasegawa wrote: Blanton was mowin em down tonight, 8 scoreless innings and gave up 2 hits.  If Zito gets his shit together, we'd have the best starting rotation in the majors.  i think the white sox have a better rotation then oaklandoaklandBarry Zito (L) Rich Harden (R) Esteban Loaiza (R) Dan Haren (R) Joe Blanton (R)white soxMark Buehrle (L) Freddy Garcia (R) Jose Contreras (R) Jon Garland (R) Javier Vazquez (R)My turn to homer it up.  If Toronto can make the postseason, there pitching lineup would be deadly!  Notice I left out Towers as he continues to look awful right now.  Halladay though is easily one of the best pitchers in the majors, Lilly can be deadly when on and healthy, Chacin continues to pitch tough in now only his second season, and the jury is still out on Burnett but his speed is there hitting 98mph in his very first Toronto start.  I truly believe he'll put up a 15+ win season.  All four of these guys have that potential, some with much more. 1)  Roy Halladay (R)2)  AJ Burnett  (R)3)  Ted Lilly  (L)4)  Gustavo Chacin  (L)

spoon

04-17-2006, 11:31 PM

Crippler wrote:  I just was reading ESPN.com and there is an article about griffey homering today. He has 537 in his career now.  It just got me to thinking about how this guy pretty obviously never took steroids, played his heart out every game, jumped into walls, never was a dickhead. Took less money and in different structure to play at home. He also got hurt alot and never quit. Its a shame cause he is the one who should be going after the records and he would have done it the right way. It's hard to remember how good he was, but i think he is still the best player ive ever watched play.On that note, not for long. God I hope pujols breaks 73 homers so now one cares about Bonds anymore. Man can that kid play ======= Since he came up so young, it's hard to believe Griffey is only 36 years old.  Without all the injuries, like Snoogans said, he'd definitely be knocking on the door of some hallowed records.  And in his prime he was one hell of a centerfielder, too.  It's a shame the homecoming to Cincinnati never panned out as expected, but if he can put together a few more healthy and productive years, who knows?  It boggles the mind to think back to just how good he was.  So good, that after years of severely reduced productivity due to injury & time on the field, and one year of a semi-comeback, at 36 he takes one swing in early April & passes Micky Mantle for all-time HRs and Joe D for all-time RBI.  Crazier still is that depending on his & Alez Rodriguez' longevity, one of them will probably be the best player of all time, with the other a close second.  Unless one of them has a Bonds-ian power surge at 36 or 37 and suddenly goes off the charts....naturally, of course.Stat wise perhaps Crip, but can you really put these two up there with the likes of the legends, let alone the best player of all time.  No way.  At least not yet for Arod, and Griff has been amazing, but quite simply he doesn't hold up to the litmus test when you add "winning".  Jeter and Mo on the Yanks can have better arguments made.  At least that's my view.  Great players sure, but to be considered the best ever, you have to have a better history of winning.  The same thing killed Marino in similar arguments and will Manning if he doesn't adjust to the league for a better playoff run soon.

spoon

04-17-2006, 11:33 PM

FezPaul wrote: <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /> Gvac wrote: I refuse to even pay attention to the Barry Bonds saga.I'm just having a blast rooting for my FIRST PLACE Cincinnati Reds.  It's not often I get to say that. If it was spelled Sincinnati, they'd be in 3rd place. Nice!

Bulldogcakes

04-18-2006, 03:00 PM

spoon wrote:Jeter and Mo on the Yanks can have better arguments made. At least that's my view. Great players sure, but to be considered the best ever, you have to have a better history of winning. The same thing killed Marino in similar arguments and will Manning if he doesn't adjust to the league for a better playoff run soon. It depends. Alot of people consider Ted Williams the best hitter who ever lived, and he never won anything (and would have passed Ruth but for WW2). You can be a great individual player, or you can be a great winner. They're two different things. Its the old argument about Wilt vs Bill Russel. Wilt has every record in the books, Russel has the rings.  Who would I want on my team? Bill Russell, Jeter, Mo. The winners.  <blockquote />

Bama

04-18-2006, 04:00 PM

I'd take a team full of guys who never won. Williams, Bonds, A-Rod, Pujols. You can have your "winner's" but, unfortunately for you, you can't take their teammates.

This message was edited by Bama on 4-18-06 @ 8:03 PM

spoon

04-18-2006, 05:00 PM

A little early on Pujos don't you think?  Hell, even Elway was able to change his rep at a ripe old age!  Surely we can give AP at least a decade.

spoon

04-19-2006, 12:05 AM

We have our first big 100 game suspension!  Will this scare others straight?  Hell, they can't even test for most substances yet.  But perhaps this will make them fear it??  Thoughts?<a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5496056">http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5496056</a>

Crippler

04-19-2006, 03:51 AM

spoon wrote: Crazier still is that depending on his & Alez Rodriguez' longevity, one of them will probably be the best player of all time, with the other a close second.  Unless one of them has a Bonds-ian power surge at 36 or 37 and suddenly goes off the charts....naturally, of course.Stat wise perhaps Crip, but can you really put these two up there with the likes of the legends, let alone the best player of all time.  No way.  At least not yet for Arod, and Griff has been amazing, but quite simply he doesn't hold up to the litmus test when you add "winning".  Jeter and Mo on the Yanks can have better arguments made.  At least that's my view.  Great players sure, but to be considered the best ever, you have to have a better history of winning.  The same thing killed Marino in similar arguments and will Manning if he doesn't adjust to the league for a better playoff run soon.I suppose if Rodriguez fails to win a title for his entire career, maybe even if he wins one but fails to overtly contribute, you would be right.  He goes on the shelf right next to Dan Marino.

Earlshog

04-19-2006, 07:55 PM

its hard to put  it all on one player when they don't win a championship. You put Dan Marino on the 9ers and he wins four championships maybe more...  Phill Simms has four rings if you give him a great D and all the offensive weapons Montana had. In baseball its almost impossible to put a team on your back as a hitter.

spoon

04-19-2006, 11:11 PM

Sorry, you're wrong.  Great players make the teams around them better and guide them to championships.  Sure they can't do it themselves, so they find ways to get there working with what they have.  If Dan played for the 49ers he would have never handed the ball off, Rice would have gotten double coverage tthroughout the playoffs and they would have been picked off a bunch of times.  Simms and Marino didn't have the knack for calling the right plays with the coaching staff, the leadership ability and the love of their teammates.  This applies more to Marino then Simms of course bc Phil did in fact lead some good playoff runs and won some titles too.  Marino is the mirror image of Peyton, stat city in the regular season, folds in the playoffs bc they only have one side to their game and greed plays a big role. 

A.J.

04-20-2006, 04:42 AM

Alot of people consider Ted Williams the best hitter who ever lived, and he never won anything Ty Cobb too.

Earlshog

04-20-2006, 04:59 AM

Thats fair... thats your opinion and you entitled to it. I don't agree but all this is hypothetical. To me QB's like Jim McMahon, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, etc etc wearing rings proves the team surrounding them is more important.

This message was edited by Earlshog on 4-20-06 @ 9:01 AM

cougarjake13

04-20-2006, 04:14 PM

spoon wrote: We have our first big 100 game suspension!  Will this scare others straight?  Hell, they can't even test for most substances yet.  But perhaps this will make them fear it??  Thoughts?<a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5496056">http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5496056</a>its a big suspension but i doubt it'll strike fear into anyone, who the hell is angel rocha anywayunless a high profile player gets nabbed i dont think there will be any fearof all the guys that have been suspended for steroids who is the biggest name ??? Matt Lawton is the highest profile guy i can think of.

cougarjake13

04-20-2006, 04:19 PM

Earlshog wrote:  Thats fair... thats your opinion and you entitled to it. I don't agree but all this is hypothetical. To me QB's like Jim McMahon, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, etc etc wearing rings proves the team surrounding them is more important.This message was edited by Earlshog on 4-20-06 @ 9:01 AM but they've all been one shot wonders and have had decent to nothing careers other then the super bowl season, they just were in the right place at the right time and in all three cases they had superb defenses that contributed to their success more than the qb doing anything great to help win

Bama

04-20-2006, 05:24 PM

Spoon, you are wrong. How can you deny that Montana's teammates were better than Marino's? How can you deny that having better teammates = championships? It's a TEAM game. Teams win it. Not individuals. It's stupid to give individual players credit for something that they lucked into. Joe Montana was my favorite player growing up but he had a LOT of help. Rice, Craig and a consistently top rated defense. Dan Marino never handed the ball off because he never had any freaking body to hand the ball off to. Conclusion: Montana = awesome, Marino = awesome. 80's 49ers > 80's Dolphins. And as far as Simms, come on - he's on the same level as Dilfer. He went down one year and they won the freaking SuperBowl without him. Wonder why? Oh that's right, the Giants were a great TEAM. Don't even get me started about giving individual baseball players credit for championships. Especially position players. They didn't do it alone, and no they wouldn't have "led" some sucky team to any rings.

This message was edited by Bama on 4-20-06 @ 9:28 PM

BoondockSaint

04-20-2006, 06:54 PM

Can we get back to baseball here, fellas?  And more importantly, breaking Mojo's heart.<h1><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2415904" target="_self">Cubs ready to place Lee on DL with broken wrist</a></h1>[CHICAGO -- <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chn">Chicago Cubs</a> first baseman <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5775">Derrek Lee</a> broke two bones in his right wrist in a collision with the Dodgers' <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6404">Rafael Furcal</a> and is expected to be in a cast up to six weeks.

Snoogans

04-20-2006, 06:58 PM

The funniest part is, Mojo told me last night on IM that Lee ran into someone and got hurt and the Cubs still rallied back to win. Said he liked to see that, and said that it was good scrapy baseball. I pointed out that Lee was hurt and he said, ahh, its nothing. I replied its the cubs, tomorrow that could be 3 months. Guess what?

Earlshog

04-20-2006, 07:48 PM

cougarjake13 wrote: Earlshog wrote:  Thats fair... thats your opinion and you entitled to it. I don't agree but all this is hypothetical. To me QB's like Jim McMahon, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, etc etc wearing rings proves the team surrounding them is more important.This message was edited by Earlshog on 4-20-06 @ 9:01 AM but they've all been one shot wonders and have had decent to nothing careers other then the super bowl season, they just were in the right place at the right time and in all three cases they had superb defenses that contributed to their success more than the qb doing anything great to help winExactly my point, sometimes a player, like Montana is in the right place at the right time. Do you really think he wins one. let alone four championships if he is drafted by New Orleans

Earlshog

04-20-2006, 07:49 PM

Snoogans wrote: The funniest part is, Mojo told me last night on IM that Lee ran into someone and got hurt and the Cubs still rallied back to win. Said he liked to see that, and said that it was good scrapy baseball. I pointed out that Lee was hurt and he said, ahh, its nothing. I replied its the cubs, tomorrow that could be 3 months. Guess what? I find nothing funny about it... I go from Derek Lee to Adrian Gonzalez as my fantasy first baseman. Good thing I had a lot of depth at first...

Snoogans

04-20-2006, 07:50 PM

FUCK, i have lee too

TheMojoPin

04-21-2006, 11:12 AM

I feel ill.I've always laughed off the whole "curse/the Cubs have the worst luck of any team ever" schtick, but really, come the fuck on.  In the cosmic scheme of things, how is this even remotely fair?  Guy coming off a career year, getting off to a great start in the season and the WBC, cornerstone player for the team, NEVER played less than 155 games in a season...and he gets sidelined for 3-4 months.  Hurt by the shortstop the Cubs were outbid for in the off season.  On the one year anniversary of when Nomar went down with his groin injury when he was a Cub.  Playing the team he ended up going to.  What are the odds?Seriously...What.The.FUCK?!?!?Goddamn...I am still so angry about this.  I mean, it would be one thing if this team had gotten off to a shitty start this season like everyone predicted...but instead they were looking real good...9-5, swept the Cardinals, the rookies were playing HUGE, Lee was hitting, Michael Barrett and Todd Walker were adding big bats, the bullpen was lights out, Maddux pitxhing like it was 10 years ago.  It's like God saw what was happening and decided, "hell no, not the Cubs!"I mean, it's not the end of the world, or the season...trust me, I wasn't thinking, "oh, this was the year!"  The team isn't horrible without Lee...Aramis Ramirez needs to get back up to his usual levels, and once he does, he's one of the best hitters in the NL.  Jacque Jones just needs to get back to being Jacque Jones.  Hit your .250...just give us those 25-35 HR's you're good for.  The bullpen is still quite possibly the best in the game right now...as long as the team plays as hard as they have been this season and keep the opposing team to 4 runs or less, they can win.  And Wood, Prior and Miller are all back within the next month.But still...WHAT THE FUCK?!?

FezPaul

04-21-2006, 02:08 PM

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f281/FezPaul/billgoat.jpg

cougarjake13

04-21-2006, 02:27 PM

watching the replay i have one questionafter the ball skies way over lee's head he stays in the lane instead of moving away when he clearly had the time to do so, he had nothing to gain by staying near the bag

FezPaul

04-21-2006, 02:30 PM

He was held in place by the spirit of the Billy Goat!!!!!!!!!

cougarjake13

04-21-2006, 03:00 PM

FezPaul wrote: He was held in place by the spirit of the Billy Goat!!!!!!!!! maybe the goat was gnawing on his leg and wouldnt let gowith prior, wood and now lee on the dl is anyone safe in wrigleyville ???

TheMojoPin

04-21-2006, 07:18 PM

<img height="179" src="http://adjacent.ca/images/nes-river.jpg" width="232" border="0" />That's how I feel after the Cubs' being trounced 9-3 by the frickin' Cardinals.Now, I'm not trying to make excuses, but tonight's loss actually highlighted that the Cubs missing Prior and Wood hurts way, way, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than Lee not being there.  Jerome Williams started tonight and only lasted 2 innings before giving up 7 runs and being pulled.  From there on out the bullpen only allowed 2 runs over 7 innings, which is pretty fucking impressive, and only serves to show off just how damn good they are.  The Cubs' short game was off tonight, but odds are if Wood, Prior, Maddux or Zambrano had started, they would have won or "only" lost like 4-3 or 5-3, in which case, yes, not having Lee's bat was probably the deciding factor.  But them getting blown out by the Cards falls almost solely on Williams, which sucks, because up until today he had kept his ERA against them at about 1.90.  Wood is still supposed to be back around the second week of May, and Prior a week after him, and that NEEDS to happen, and they NEED to be at or better than their career averages.  No way around it.Rumblings that the Cubs might give up a couple decent prospects to get Craig Wilson in the meantime since he's all but gone from the Pirates, even with the injury to Casey.  If so, they need to get that done.  They need his bat, and they need him in RF instead of Jockstrap Jones.

BoondockSaint

04-21-2006, 07:25 PM

By the way puljos hit his 11th HR in that game.  He is just fucking mashing this year.  Even by his standards.

TheMojoPin

04-21-2006, 07:31 PM

This is true.  Nobody can deny just how fucking good he is.  That HR was one of Williams' few GOOD pitches tonight.  Low and inside, and Pujols just adjusts his swing smoothly and golfs it out into the Cubs bullpen like a bullet.  It's insane how good of a hitter he is...it's so far beyond just having power it's not even funny.  He'll get those bombs, but then he'll get the base hits whenever you need them, too.  He's SCARY good.  He really is one of those rare guys you actually can build a team around.

BoondockSaint

04-21-2006, 08:10 PM

And what is he like 26 now?  Unreal.

Bulldogcakes

04-22-2006, 05:17 PM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=260422108" target="_self" title="Home run derby: Brewers hit five in one inning"> Home run derby: Brewers hit five in one inning</a>MILWAUKEE (AP) -- The <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=mil">Milwaukee Brewers</a> hit so many home runs in
the fourth inning Saturday that manager Ned Yost lost track."You don't really sit there and count them down," he said.
"There was some confusion on the bench if there were four or five
home runs."There were definitely five -- which tied a major league record --
to spark a seven-run fourth in Milwaukee's 11-0 victory over the
<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=cin">Cincinnati Reds</a>. <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6992">Bill Hall</a>, <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5878">Damian Miller</a>, <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6583">Brady Clark</a>, <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7283">J.J. Hardy</a>
and <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7290">Prince Fielder</a> all connected, marking the first time in 40
years that a team hit five homers in one inning.   Wow! Wish I would have seen that live.

FezPaul

04-24-2006, 01:04 PM

Keith Hernandez, when seeing a female trainer in the dugout, said "what's a women doing in there?"Douche-bag Jim Rome, has already vilified him as if he said the N-word.I'm sure the rest of the PC Police at ESPN will be piling on soon.ugh

TheMojoPin

04-24-2006, 01:31 PM

Greg Maddux is incredible.RESPECT.

HBox

04-24-2006, 01:46 PM

FezPaul wrote: Keith Hernandez, when seeing a female trainer in the dugout, said "what's a women doing in there?"Douche-bag Jim Rome, has already vilified him as if he said the N-word.I'm sure the rest of the PC Police at ESPN will be piling on soon.ugh  He should be villified if he meant it. He didn't just say what's a woman doing in there. At first he assumed the woman wasn't part of the team and then complained that she was in the dugout, perfectly fine. Then he was informed that she was a trainer, and said "I'm not gonna say women should be in the kitchen, but they shouldn't be in the dugout." Of course, he immediately said he was joking, and then apologized the next day. That should eb the end of it.

Bulldogcakes

04-24-2006, 05:10 PM

God forbid anyone makes a joke anymore. We really should be attacking the uptight people who cant take a joke, not the people who are trying to have a little fun. I WANT TO LIVE IN A WORLD THAT REMINDS ME OF THE OLD "DEAN MARTIN SHOW" DAMMIT!  

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 4-24-06 @ 9:15 PM

TheMojoPin

04-24-2006, 06:20 PM

Hot damn...Cubs go into the bottom of the 8th losing 3-0 to the Marlins...and score 6 runs.  Which team am I watching again?  And they're apparently leading the NL in comeback wins.  Again, WHICH team am I watching again?!?Zambrano goes 7 innings with 3 runs, 6 hits and 12 K's, tying his record.GREAT WIN, CUBBIES!

kdubya

04-24-2006, 06:25 PM

FezPaul wrote: Keith Hernandez, when seeing a female trainer in the dugout, said "what's a women doing in there?"Douche-bag Jim Rome, has already vilified him as if he said the N-word.I'm sure the rest of the PC Police at ESPN will be piling on soon.ughESPN really does need to lighten up, it is just a game after all. It's like when Randy Moss PRETENDED to moon the fans in Green Bay and they acted like he raped someone on the field. Sure it was a dumb thing for someone to say, but so what, Keith Hernandez isn't some ellected official, he is some dude that used to play baseball and know gets payed to talk about it.And Jim Rome can suck my balls

Gvac

04-24-2006, 07:16 PM

Mojo - please tell me you were watching when Todd Walker botched that infield pop up.  I realize he's playing out of position, but still....

TheMojoPin

04-24-2006, 07:36 PM

Yeah, it was ugly, but it IS a tougher play than it looks.  I doubt it'll happen again soon, and the way he's hitting, shit, I'm forgiving.  Guy would have had 3 more hits tonight...straight up robbed by 3 Web Gem-worty defensive plays.

A.J.

04-25-2006, 03:58 AM

FezPaul wrote: Keith Hernandez, when seeing a female trainer in the dugout, said "what's a women doing in there?""Nice comment, pretty boy."<img height="176" src="http://www.alibali.net/images/seinfeld_newman.jpg" width="150" border="0" />

HBox

04-26-2006, 08:06 PM

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2423307" target="_blank">Tampa prospect Delmon Young, one of the biggest prospects in all of baseball, throws a bat at an umpire.</a><img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/blink.gif" /> <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2423307" target="_blank"></a>

spoon

04-26-2006, 10:32 PM

Man, that was a bad call!!!  HA!

WindowSill

04-27-2006, 04:58 AM

What a dumb fuck. This kid could be the second coming of Ken Griffey
and instead hes gonna pull a Marcus Vick and fuck himself over...

Gvac

04-27-2006, 02:22 PM

I'm getting a little worried about Bronson Arroyo.  Sure he's 4-0 with an ERA under 2.5, but he hasn't homered in his last two starts.  <img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/ohmy.gif" />

Bulldogcakes

04-27-2006, 03:05 PM

And the Bosox are dying for a starter right now. What the fuck was that trade all about? Does Bronson Arroyo have a wife that wears risque dresses to Christmas parties?

Fallon

04-27-2006, 06:40 PM

What the fuck was that trade all about?They didn't plan on Papelbon being such a strong closer and Wells going down (really shouldn't have even brought him back).

Marc with a c

04-27-2006, 07:08 PM

HBox wrote: <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2423307" target="_blank">Tampa prospect Delmon Young, one of the biggest prospects in all of baseball, throws a bat at an umpire.</a><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/blink.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2423307" target="_blank"></a>watching that video on baseball tonight, he whipped that fucking bat at the ump. i have never seen anything like that.what a spaz

Gvac

04-29-2006, 12:17 PM

The best record in all of baseball!The only team playing over .700 ball!GO CINCY!!!

cougarjake13

04-29-2006, 12:45 PM

since this is mojo's unofficial cubs thread sorry to say the cubbies are getting spanked 13-0 by the brew crew.. oops now its 13-1 and with men on 2nd and 3rd...hey maybe its not too late its only the 7th inning

kdubya

04-29-2006, 01:38 PM

I am a die hard Twins fan, so if anyone needs me I will be out back shooting myself in the head

FezPaul

04-29-2006, 01:43 PM

kdubya wrote: I am a die hard Twins fan, so if anyone needs me I will be out back shooting myself in the head How did you hold out this long?

Gvac

05-01-2006, 06:59 PM

Bronson Arroyo continues his dominance of the National League.He pitched a complete game, 4 hit shutout against St. Louis tonight.  Reds take sole posession of first!!!

Fallon

05-01-2006, 07:01 PM

Gvac wrote: Bronson Arroyo continues his dominance of the National League.
 
Okay, we got Mirabelli back today. What do you guys want for Bronson?

Gvac

05-01-2006, 07:05 PM

Curt Schilling, Jason Varitek, and either Ramirez or Ortiz.Otherwise, forget it!

Snoogans

05-01-2006, 07:24 PM

we gave SD mirabelli for loretta, and then got mirabelli back for his replacement, so basically loretta was free.If thats, the case, we should get arroyo back for his replacement. Have fun with Lenny Dinardo, Gvac

Fallon

05-01-2006, 08:52 PM

Hey Gvac, you can get an <a target='blank' href=http://www.yawkeywaystore.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=TA0242>Arroyo T-Shirt</a> for only $5.

Sure it says Red Sox on the front, but you can just cover up "ox".

spoon

05-02-2006, 10:57 PM

At least I'm pulling for your baseball team Gvac.  I loathe the wings, but your Reds can help me with my Mojo bet that he's afraid to up the ante on!!  Come on mojo, no faith in those frail arms?  No faith after all these years.......???.......oh yah, nevermind.

TheMojoPin

05-04-2006, 07:41 PM

I'd be a fucking moron to raise the bet right now, or probably any time this season.These guys aren't just bad...they're gut-churningly bad.  6 games and they muster up, what, 5 runs?  While giving up around 40?  Bringing back Wood, Prior AND Lee ain't gonna fix shit like that.I'm fed up.  I want a Marlins-like fire sale.  They wanted to be like the 90's Braves, except they hire coaches that piledrive the team's young arms into the ground and onto the DL.  And they expect those arms to carry the team that has MAYBE 2 guys who can hit at any given time...if they go down or slump, they're doomed.  What good are the arms if they have no run support?  I can't believe this team could have had Maddux, Prior, Wood and Zambrano pitching together this season and the last two...and they fucked it up.  And never bothered to try and even come close to solidifying the offense.  Oh, but here's Jacque Jones for 3 years!  And Neifi Perez and Glendon Rusch for 2 years!Go to fucking hell, Tribune.  Sell this team and give a shot to someone who gives a flying fuck.  I'm sick of this shit.  20 years of futility have made me bitter before my time...imagine the poor bastards who have lived and died watching shitty ownership choke any shot of winning out of this team year after year.Complete garbage.