2006 OFFICIAL MLB OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD!

[TheMojoPin]

<p>Man, faith gets me shit!</p><p>And let me make this clear...I still do and always will love this TEAM...but the coaches and management and owners are done.&nbsp; Period.&nbsp; No way around it.&nbsp; Dusty and his clowns need to be tossed out, and Hendry, too.&nbsp; I want the Tribune to sell the team to someone like Cuban YESTERDAY.</p><p>They need to make a move, NOW.&nbsp; Yeah, it's gonna cost them...but that's what you get when you don't prepare.&nbsp; Deal the fucking farm and get another bat...as of right now they only have ONE power guy in the lineup.&nbsp; Yeah, they've got DECENT hitters, but nobody that fits a #3, 4 or 5 spot...not even close.&nbsp; As it stands, no pitcher has any reason to pitch the #4 guy, Aramis Ramirez, anything he can hit.&nbsp; Combine that with the fact he's a slow starter EVER year and that's just stupid off season planning.&nbsp; Even the Cardinals have to plan around Pujols going down...why are the Cubs thinking like Lee and Ramirez were indestructable?</p><p>I mean, yeah, there's hope...Wood is a lock to be back within a week or two and he's tearing it up in the minor league starts.&nbsp; Dude's got to work for a contract yea.&nbsp; But Prior...now he's supposedly got fucking FOOD POISONING?!?&nbsp; Christ, I think the technical term is &quot;sprained vagina&quot;...I think he's bought his own injury hype and he freaks at out at the slightest bit of pain or discomfort.&nbsp; Personally, I think his overuse in 2003 and him having to compensate for his achilles problems in 2004 have just strained his shoulder too much and it just needs to rest.&nbsp; At this point, I'll be shocked to see him pitch before 2007...and almost hope I don't.&nbsp; Zambrano needs to calm the fuck down and get it together.&nbsp; Every year he's had one of these &quot;flakey&quot; months before he finally meltdowns one game and that seems to kick him in the ass and gets back on course.&nbsp; Hopefully the meltdown was his last game and he does something right tonight.&nbsp; And Lee will be back...I just pray his wrist strength can be built back up so he can even pull off being a .290-.310 hitter again...I'd be estatic with just that at this point.</p><p>God, what a waste of a stellar bullpen...they've been fantastic, and I'm afraid they're gonna get burned out with all the scrubs blowing the game so early day after day.&nbsp; Lord, stop pissing on the Cubs!&nbsp; One break...ONE!&nbsp; PLEASE!</p>

[Greggie44]

<p>Looks like Z is back.&nbsp; Hendry did half a job again.&nbsp; Good work on&nbsp;the bullpen but way too many holes in the lineup.&nbsp; This team like the last two has no balls.&nbsp; Mark Prior needs a visit from Bob Gibson and Sandy Koufax to tell him a little about arm pain and being a man.&nbsp; His only concern seems to be his post-arbitration payday.</p><p>Mark Cuban, please fire MacFail, Hendry, and Dusty.</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>Not just them...Clines, Sarge and Rothchild all need to go, too.</p><p>GodDAMN, this kind of playing is going to kill me.&nbsp; Zambrano was right back on form, and the bullpen had it nailed through 10 fucking innings, and they can't score ONE motherfucking run.</p><p>HENDRY.</p><p>PUT DOWN YOUR NINTH MEAL OF THE DAY AND GET A GODDAMN BAT.</p><p>Man, remember the last times the Cubs scored a run?</p><p>Yeah, neither do I.</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>I like how the big offensive flaw over the last few years was that the team was too reliant on home runs...so Hendry turns around and provides a team that'll give you a minimum amount of home runs AND sucks at the short game!&nbsp; AWESOME!</p><p>So far, speed hasn't done a goddamn thing.&nbsp; Maybe they could use it to&nbsp;try and lose a little bit fucking faster on these godforsaken west coast road trips so I can get to bed at a decent hour.</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>It's almost like they WANT to kill Ron Santo on the air.</p><p>...</p><p>YOU DIRTY ROTTEN NO GOOD PIECE OF SHIT FILTHY FUCKING ANIMALS!!!</p><p>Christ, I wish I was drunk.</p>

[Greggie44]

<p>I completely agree with you on firing the whole bunch.&nbsp; Go system wide.&nbsp; Nobody out of the whole system seems to play the game of baseball.&nbsp; </p><p>Poor Ronnie.&nbsp; I have been away from the radio for the better part this week.&nbsp; This must be killing him.</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>I can't stand hearing Santo when they make stupid plays or blow close games...between Bynum dropping the ball and then the winning run by the Padres I thought Ronnie was going to hurl himself out of the broadcasters booth and suffer 14 massive heart attacks before he hit the ground.</p><p>I can see Hendry being kept on...I can even see Baker being kept around.&nbsp; But when the offense has been handcuffed by lack of options for years now and a team that supposedly was going to ride on its pitching can't even fucking pitch, the hitting and pitching coaches need to get the boot.&nbsp; Baker makes some moronic moves at times, but at the end of the day, he has to work with what he's given, and it seems like the maniacs training these guys are just driving them into the ground.</p>

[Bama]

This season is seriously pissing me off.

[cougarjake13]

<strong>Bama</strong> wrote:<br />This season is seriously pissing me off. <p>well at least your boys are doing a good job today.... up 13-1 in the 7th </p>

[Bama]

Finally.

[Bama]

<p>The Braves will still win this division. They just want to give all their fans a heart attack in the process.</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>Bama</strong> wrote:<br />Finally. <p>hey, even a blind squirrel finds a nut</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>Bama</strong> wrote:<br /><p>The Braves will still win this division. They just want to give all their fans a heart attack in the process.</p><p>&nbsp; just to let their fans down again in the postseason</p>

[Bama]

<p>I'm going to cry myself to sleep if the Braves manage to choke this one away.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Congrats on becoming a Super Poster CougerJake 13</p>

[Bama]

<strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Bama</strong> wrote:<br /><p>The Braves will still win this division. They just want to give all their fans a heart attack in the process.</p><p>&nbsp; just to let their fans down again in the postseason</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>That goes without saying.</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>Bama</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I'm going to cry myself to sleep if the Braves manage to choke this one away.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Congrats on becoming a Super Poster CougerJake 13</p><p>thanks</p><p>has there ever been a team up that big that went on to lose ??? i know a few years ago there was an indians -rangers or was it indians -mariners, cant remember i know it had the indians though but they were down huge and came back to win </p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>Bama</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote: <strong>Bama</strong> wrote:The Braves will still win this division. They just want to give all their fans a heart attack in the process. <p>&nbsp; just to let their fans down again in the postseason</p><p>That goes without saying.</p><p>hell i wish the mets had even half of the braves run, at least you get to have hope once the season ends even if its only for a week or two, most seasons mets are out way before football season comes around</p>

[Bama]

<strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Bama</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I'm going to cry myself to sleep if the Braves manage to choke this one away.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Congrats on becoming a Super Poster CougerJake 13</p><p>thanks</p><p>has there ever been a team up that big that went on to lose ??? i know a few years ago there was an indians -rangers or was it indians -mariners, cant remember i know it had the indians though but they were down huge and came back to win </p><p>Wasn't there an Yankees game last year where the Yanks put up 8 in the 9th? Or something like that. Maybe it was the other way around. I'm too old, I'm losing my memory. </p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Bama on 5-7-06 @ 4:44 PM</span>

[FezPaul]

<p><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="3">&quot;Ruth did it with Hot Dogs &amp; Beer/ Aaron did it with class.&quot;</font></p><p><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="3">Huge banner held up in left field stands, to taunt Barry Bonds.</font></p><p><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="3">Gotta love Philly fans.</font></p>

[MHasegawa]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>FezPaul</strong> wrote:<br /><br /><p><font size="3" face="courier new,courier,monospace">Gotta love Philly fans.</font></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Says who?????&nbsp;</p>

[Bulldogcakes]

<h1><p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2437137" target="_self" title="Wood strikes out 12 in five-inning rehab start">Wood strikes out 12 in five-inning rehab start</a></p><p></p></h1><p>PEORIA, Ill. -- <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chn">Chicago Cubs</a> pitcher <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5982">Kerry Wood</a> struck out 12 in
five scoreless innings during a rehab appearance Sunday with
Chicago's Class A affiliate, the Peoria Chiefs.
</p><p>

In Peoria's 5-3 win over Lansing in 10 innings, Wood, who has
been on the disabled list since March 28, gave up one hit, one walk
and hit a batter on his way to a no decision.
</p><h1><p>&nbsp;</p></h1>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>Bulldogcakes</strong> wrote:<br /><h1><p><a title="Wood strikes out 12 in five-inning rehab start" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2437137" target="_self">Wood strikes out 12 in five-inning rehab start</a></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font size="2">PEORIA, Ill. -- </font><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chn"><font size="2">Chicago Cubs</font></a><font size="2"> pitcher </font><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5982"><font size="2">Kerry Wood</font></a><font size="2"> struck out 12 in five scoreless innings during a rehab appearance Sunday with Chicago's Class A affiliate, the Peoria Chiefs. </font></p><p><font size="2">In Peoria's 5-3 win over Lansing in 10 innings, Wood, who has been on the disabled list since March 28, gave up one hit, one walk and hit a batter on his way to a no decision.</font> </p><h1><p>&nbsp;</p>&nbsp;<font size="2">key words are class a affiliate, so its not that impressive</font> <p>&nbsp;</p></h1></h1>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by cougarjake13 on 5-8-06 @ 6:09 PM</span>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>FezPaul</strong> wrote:<br /><p><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="3">&quot;Ruth did it with Hot Dogs &amp; Beer/ Aaron did it with class.&quot;</font></p><p><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="3">Huge banner held up in left field stands, to taunt Barry Bonds.</font></p><p><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="3">Gotta love Philly fans.</font></p><p>normally i wouldnt agree, being a mets fan and all and gone to a few mets-phils games in philly at the old vet but that was definitely awesome i just wish there was more fans and signs like that at other stadiums, </p><p>me personally i liked the guy in san diego who threw the syringe on the field but what they should do is make giant syringes out of the same material as those thundersticks and hand them out at every giants away game</p>

[Bulldogcakes]

<p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Bulldogcakes</strong> wrote:<br /><h1><p><a target="_self" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2437137" title="Wood strikes out 12 in five-inning rehab start">Wood strikes out 12 in five-inning rehab start</a></p><p> </p><p> </p><h1><font size="2">key words are class a affiliate, so its not that impressive</font> <p> </p></h1></h1>

<p>&nbsp;</p><p><br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I posted that for Mojo, who hasn't had alot to cheer for lately, unlike you and me. And its rehab, so just the fact he's pitching is good news. So lay off. &nbsp;</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>Bulldogcakes</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I posted that for Mojo, who hasn't had alot to cheer for lately, unlike you and me. And its rehab, so just the fact he's pitching is good news. So lay off. &nbsp;</p><p>i read it so fast i didnt even realize that it wasnt mojo who posted it, and i wasnt trying to start anything just a friendly ribbing</p>

[Snoogans]

so 12 K's in 5 innings, keeps pitching like that, he will be back in the bigs just in time to get hurt again<br />

[TheMojoPin]

<p>Thanks for posting that, BDC.&nbsp; I watched that game online as opposed to witnessing yet another debacle of a loss by the &quot;real&quot; Cubs.&nbsp; Man, these guys stink.&nbsp; They're BAD.&nbsp; Like, 2002 bad.&nbsp; 1999 bad.&nbsp; ECH.&nbsp; The whole goddamn team is pressing, and they're just sliding further and further down.&nbsp; Yeah, I know it's a HUGE slump, but even playing to level, these guys are only a 2-3 games above .500 team at best.</p><p>There have been a few upside.&nbsp; That rookie pitcher the Cubs pulled up from SINGLE-FUCKIN'-A out of desperation, Sean Marshall, has done fantastic...kid's got a huge future ahead of him, hopefully with this ballclub.&nbsp; Maddux had a brilliant first 5 games...the last 2 he stumbled (though the 1st loss was against the D-Backs, who have inexplicably worked him his entire career...just one of &quot;those teams), but I'm confident he'll end this year with at least 16 wins and an ERA below 4.00.&nbsp; The kids, Ronnie Cedeno and Matt Murton, have proven themselves and looked great.&nbsp; Aramis Ramirez has finally started hitting again in the last few days, boosting his bottom-scraping average .025 points in the last 2 games alone.&nbsp; He's always been a slow starter through May, but damn, it would have been nice if he had somehow&nbsp;stepped it up with Lee going down.&nbsp; This team NEEDS another bat, period, even if Lee comes back healthy.&nbsp; They stupidly went into this season without a solid 3rd big bat to hit 5th and now they're paying for it.&nbsp; I hated that they let Nomar go after last year, and now I hate it even more.</p><p>Wood's progress is great, but if this team continues to be an offensive black hole, he'll just be another good pitcher putting up great outings for nothing.&nbsp; Yeah, I know this last start was in single A, but still, a dozen K's is really impressive, even at that level.&nbsp; He'll get a triple A start next and then he'll probably rejoin the team...the guy's had a reputation as a leader on the team and the fans love him, so hopefully showing up and being even a little like the old Kerry Wood will spark something and stop the slide.&nbsp; I doubt he'll have an extensive DL stint this year short of being completely unable to pitch.&nbsp; He's literally playing for his supper...contract year, folks.&nbsp; He wants to stay in Chicago, but it's been all but said that he's gone if he misses significant time again this year.&nbsp; Besides, if he breaks down again, that's just going to hurt his options with other teams tremendously.&nbsp; It's always amazing what these guys can do when the money is on the line...</p><p>Man, what a depressing season...and May has just begun.&nbsp; Crap.</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>Something's gotta change...fuck that goddamn goat.&nbsp; LET'S GET SOME RUNS!!!</p><p>Here's what'll get this team going...Bonds and Zambrano HATE each other, and Big Z is pitching tomorrow.&nbsp; Ideally, I want him to blast off Bonds' kneecap with a screaming fastball, but if Bonds does hit a HR off of him, anything less than shattering his ribs the next time he's up to bat will be unacceptable.&nbsp; WALK THE FREAK OR FACE THE FURY.</p><p><img height="462" src="http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/mlb/photo/photogallery/2003_2nd_half_moments/chc/03.jpg" width="462" border="0" /></p><p>And now, let us pray for a sliver of salvation.&nbsp; Carlos, if you will...</p><p><img height="420" src="http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050605/050605_zambrano_vmed_5p.widec.jpg" width="298" border="0" /></p><p>Thank you, sir.</p>

[Marc with a c]

<p>pedro vs myers, johnson vs. beckett tonight!!</p><p>cancel all appointments</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>evedder</strong> wrote:<br /><p>pedro vs myers, johnson vs. beckett tonight!!</p><p>cancel all appointments</p><p>damn i really need to buy the mlb extra innings package</p>

[Don Stugots]

[quote]<hr color="cococo" align="left"></font><strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br>[quote]<strong>FezPaul</strong> wrote:<br /><p><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="3">"Ruth did it with Hot Dogs & Beer/ Aaron did it with class."</font></p><p><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="3">Huge banner held up in left field stands, to taunt Barry Bonds.</font></p><p><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="3">


i love it. someone should shatter his knee with a fast ball just on principle. his stats are a farse.

[FezPaul]

<strong>STUGOTS1</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>FezPaul</strong> wrote:<br /><p><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="3">&quot;Ruth did it with Hot Dogs &amp; Beer/ Aaron did it with class.&quot;</font></p><p><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="3">Huge banner held up in left field stands, to taunt Barry Bonds.</font></p><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="3">i love it. someone should shatter his knee with a fast ball just on principle. his stats are a farse. </font><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="3"><p>I think his right knee is shattered from carrying around all the fake muscles.</p></font>

[Justice4all]

<p>Puljos hit his Major League leading 18th homer today.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>This guy is on his way to breaking almost every single season HR record.</p><p>Only one other guy got to 18 faster then Albert...and that was way back in 1923.</p><p>Can we say MVP? Sure looks like he is the runnaway leader right now.</p>

[cougarjake13]

i hope he hits at least 74 and&nbsp;take baroid's name off the record&nbsp;

[Greggie44]

Tonight's Boston-Yanks game feels like an October match-up.

[Snoogans]

<p>&nbsp;</p><p><span class="postbody">This guy is on his way to breaking almost every single season HR record.</span>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>uhhh, isnt there only 1 single season home run record?&nbsp;</p>

[Greggie44]

<p>Good one, Snoogans.</p><p>The Cubs finally break the losing streak.&nbsp; They scored some runs and had a couple of nice plays in the field.&nbsp; Ballsy performance by Big Z.&nbsp; He looks like he is back.&nbsp; A couple too many walks but he battled out of it every time.</p>

[spoon]

A little early for MVP talk isn't it?&nbsp; Plus we all know the NL MVP is the Met's Zambrano's award this year.&nbsp;

[Justice4all]

<strong>Snoogans</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><span class="postbody">This guy is on his way to breaking almost every single season HR record.</span> &nbsp; <p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>uhhh, isnt there only 1 single season home run record?&nbsp;</p><p>Well I was also thinking about the &quot;most homes runs in the month of April, May June..ect.&quot; aside from the overall 73 hit by Mr. I'm-not-on-'roids.</p><p>Right now Puljos is the man...no question about that.</p>

[ADF]

It's &quot;Pujols,&quot; as in &quot;poo-holes,&quot; not &quot;Puljos.&quot;<br />

[FezPaul]

<strong>ADF</strong> wrote:<br />It's &quot;Pujols,&quot; as in &quot;poo-holes,&quot; not &quot;Puljos.&quot;<br /><p>http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f281/FezPaul/hack/000009.jpg<br /></p>

[margin]

tonight is the night bonds ties ruth

[Ogre]

<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="613" border="0"><tr><td class="textSm grey" colspan="18">Barry Bonds vs. Brad Penny, 2005 Regular Season</td><td class="textSm grey" align="right" colspan="19"><strong><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/batter_vs_pitcher.jsp?pTeam=lan&pitcher=207267&changeBP=true&c_id=mlb&batter=111188&season=2005R&Submit=Submit&location=All&bTeam=sfn&statSet=2&sortByStat=LAST_NAME&"><strong>Next Stats &gt;&gt;</strong></a></strong></td></tr><tr><td colspan="18"><img height="1" alt="" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td class="textSm grey" align="right" colspan="19"></td></tr><tr><td rowspan="2"><img height="1" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/batter_vs_pitcher.jsp?pTeam=lan&pitcher=207267&changeBP=true&c_id=mlb&batter=111188&season=2005R&Submit=Submit&location=All&bTeam=sfn&sortByStat=LAST_NAME&statSet=1&"><strong>Player</strong></a> </td><td rowspan="2"><img height="1" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/batter_vs_pitcher.jsp?pTeam=lan&pitcher=207267&changeBP=true&c_id=mlb&batter=111188&season=2005R&Submit=Submit&location=All&bTeam=sfn&sortByStat=VENUE&statSet=1&"><strong>VENUE</strong></a> </td><td rowspan="2"><img height="1" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/batter_vs_pitcher.jsp?pTeam=lan&pitcher=207267&changeBP=true&c_id=mlb&batter=111188&season=2005R&Submit=Submit&location=All&bTeam=sfn&sortByStat=POS&statSet=1&"><strong>POS</strong></a> </td><td rowspan="2"><img height="1" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/batter_vs_pitcher.jsp?pTeam=lan&pitcher=207267&changeBP=true&c_id=mlb&batter=111188&season=2005R&Submit=Submit&location=All&bTeam=sfn&sortByStat=G&statSet=1&"><strong>G</strong></a> </td><td rowspan="2"><img height="1" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/batter_vs_pitcher.jsp?pTeam=lan&pitcher=207267&changeBP=true&c_id=mlb&batter=111188&season=2005R&Submit=Submit&location=All&bTeam=sfn&sortByStat=AB&statSet=1&"><strong>AB</strong></a> </td><td rowspan="2"><img height="1" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/batter_vs_pitcher.jsp?pTeam=lan&pitcher=207267&changeBP=true&c_id=mlb&batter=111188&season=2005R&Submit=Submit&location=All&bTeam=sfn&sortByStat=R&statSet=1&"><strong>R</strong></a> </td><td rowspan="2"><img height="1" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/batter_vs_pitcher.jsp?pTeam=lan&pitcher=207267&changeBP=true&c_id=mlb&batter=111188&season=2005R&Submit=Submit&location=All&bTeam=sfn&sortByStat=H&statSet=1&"><strong>H</strong></a> </td><td rowspan="2"><img height="1" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/batter_vs_pitcher.jsp?pTeam=lan&pitcher=207267&changeBP=true&c_id=mlb&batter=111188&season=2005R&Submit=Submit&location=All&bTeam=sfn&sortByStat=2B&statSet=1&"><strong>2B</strong></a> </td><td rowspan="2"><img height="1" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/batter_vs_pitcher.jsp?pTeam=lan&pitcher=207267&changeBP=true&c_id=mlb&batter=111188&season=2005R&Submit=Submit&location=All&bTeam=sfn&sortByStat=3B&statSet=1&"><strong>3B</strong></a> </td><td rowspan="2"><img height="1" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/ml

[TheMojoPin]

<p><img height="444" src="http://fruitydrinks.com/~kee/albums/album79/pic26154.jpg" width="414" border="0" /></p><p>See if you can follow my logic on this...a team is nearing 100 years without a World Series win, and 60 without even making to the WS.&nbsp; Finally, in 2003, they come pretty much out of nowhere (2002 had one of the worst Cubs teams of all time) to come within 5 outs of the WS and it falls apart.&nbsp; But hey, 5 outs!&nbsp; Clearly, there's something to work with!&nbsp; So 2004 rolls around, and pretty much every major sporting news outlet picks the Cubs to make it to the WS, if not win the whole goddamn thing.&nbsp; So what happens?&nbsp; The team suffers a slew of crappy injuries and a random losing streak at the end of the regular season right when they needed 3-4 wins at the MOST and miss the playoffs...where the Red Sox, the OTHER &quot;cursed&quot; team, snaps their drought and wins it all.&nbsp; Shit, now THAT is some motivation.&nbsp; Everyone predicted your team to make it and instead they don't and their &quot;brothers in pain&quot; triumph instead.&nbsp; Fair enough...now THIS is motivation to get things going!&nbsp; Except maybe not...2005 rolls around, and very little has changed.&nbsp; Again, the injuries pounce, except seemingly nobody paid attention to this LAST year and did nothing to back anyone up in case even ONE major injury happens, much less 3 or 4.&nbsp; One player has a career year as the best hitter in all of baseball, but the team stumbles, falls apart, and does even WORSE than the year before.&nbsp; And the hated team across the city breaks THEIR WS drought and wins it.</p><p>Really now.&nbsp; How much more fucking motivation is needed to get together SOMETHING that resembles a winning team?&nbsp; A kick in the balls of everyone in the management offices?&nbsp; The team out there now, even with a healthy Lee and Ramirez hitting at career levels and the starting pitching healthy is worse than any over the last 3 seasons, and yet it has more reasons than any of those to be better.&nbsp; They have at least $100 million dollars to spend on talent...a decent farm system to trade with...STOP BEING SO FUCKING STUPID.&nbsp; This team needs to be sold to an owner that cares.&nbsp; It is, flat out, Royals included, THE worst team in baseball right now.&nbsp; AWFUL.</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p><img height="456" src="http://www.j-o-e.net/images/cubs-funny/bigimages/blasphemy.jpg" width="432" border="0" /></p><p><img height="414" src="http://www.j-o-e.net/images/cubs-funny/bigimages/perspective.jpg" width="396" border="0" /></p>

[FezPaul]

<strong>margin</strong> wrote:<br />tonight is the night bonds ties ruth <p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Would you like to try again?</font></strong></p>

[FezPaul]

<p><a href="http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Mark_CUBan/">http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Mark_CUBan/</a></p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Hey Mojo, have you signed this yet?</font></strong></p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>Yeah, I just did...not that I think it'll do anything, but it made me feel slightly better.&nbsp; My biggest concern, and I think the more likely outcome, is that the Tribune realizes they're getting a $30-$30 million performance out of a $100+ million team and cuts the payroll to reflect that.&nbsp; People who say that not buying tickets and merchandise will likely force their hand to sell are WAY too naive.&nbsp; The Pirates and Royals had devoted fans and winning teams that eventually became awful...the fans stayed away and the owners just cut the payroll to reflect the losses and that was that.&nbsp; Why would this be any different?</p><p>Classic Cubs loss today.&nbsp; I'm at the point where I'm just rating each game on levels of hilarity.&nbsp; If they win at this point I'll actually be let down.&nbsp; At least this way I can be entertained.</p>

[spoon]

Show me the money!

[margin]

<strong>FezPaul</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>margin</strong> wrote:<br />tonight is the night bonds ties ruth <p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Would you like to try again?</font></strong></p><p>no<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/dry.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Bama]

<p>Any of you Nationals fans see the game tonight?</p><p>Walk off grand slam?</p><p>Jeff Francoeur is good.</p>

[Ogre]

<p>Yeah Cordero in to &quot;close&quot; a 5-3 Nats win:&nbsp;&nbsp;First pitch fastball &nbsp;to McCann&nbsp; Big Cut..Solo HR, that cuts the lead to 5-4 Nats..next pitch single by Langerhans...next pitch single by Giles..next batter grounds OUT..Chipper singles...bags loaded, 1 out.&nbsp; Andruw Jones, &nbsp;table set.. called out looking at strike three..2 out...Francoeur to the plate...takes ball one...Cordero sets, delivers a fastball..Francouer gets all of it and that ball is hit deep..way back..it is GONE...OFF THE RESERVATION...Jeff Francouer with a walk off Grand Slam Home Run and the Braves Drop the Nats in Dramatic Fashion 8 to 5....we stink.</p><p>I have been to 6 Nats home games so far,&nbsp;and haven't sniffed a winner yet...we stink !!</p>

[Bulldogcakes]

<p>Quote of the day</p><p></p><p>
&quot;I love my mother, but I will never swing a pink bat and she understands.&quot;</p><p>
</p><p>
Cardinals Scott Rolen on MLB's Mother's Day promotion for breast cancer
awareness in which all players are asked to use pink bats today.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Is there anything more gay than a pink baseball bat?&nbsp;</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>Bulldogcakes</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Quote of the day</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&quot;I love my mother, but I will never swing a pink bat and she understands.&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Cardinals Scott Rolen on MLB's Mother's Day promotion for breast cancer awareness in which all players are asked to use pink bats today.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>&nbsp; <p>&nbsp;</p><p>Is there anything more gay than a pink baseball bat?&nbsp;</p><p>pink uniforms, pink hats, and pink baseballs</p>

[Ogre]

<p><img height="208" src="http://www.timvp.com/ej8.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Ogre]

<strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Bulldogcakes</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Quote of the day</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&quot;I love my mother, but I will never swing a pink bat and she understands.&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Cardinals Scott Rolen on MLB's Mother's Day promotion for breast cancer awareness in which all players are asked to use pink bats today.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>&nbsp; <p>&nbsp;</p><p>Is there anything more gay than a pink baseball bat?&nbsp;</p><p>pink uniforms, pink hats, and pink baseballs</p><p><img height="295" src="http://www.veryboygeorge.com/images/Boy6.jpg" width="288" border="0" /></p>

[BoondockSaint]

<img src="http://www.collegedowntime.com/funnypictures/images/Told_You_the_Yankees_Are_Gay_2.jpg" border="0" />

[Marc with a c]

<p>the easiest triple play i have ever seen was just turned in the white sox/ twins game.</p>

[A.J.]

<strong>Bulldogcakes</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Is there anything more gay than a pink baseball bat?&nbsp;</p><p>Billy Bean using one?</p><p><img height="475" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/95/Bean99.jpg" width="315" border="0" /></p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>The Nats suck!</p><p>The Cub suck even more!</p><p>Which team will suck the most with the series in Chicago starting tonight?!?</p><p>I'm banking on seeing one side somehow managing to score negative runs...</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>TheMojoPin</strong> wrote:<br /><p>The Nats suck!</p><p>The Cub suck even more!</p><p>Which team will suck the most with the series in Chicago starting tonight?!?</p><p>I'm banking on seeing one side somehow managing to score negative runs...</p><p>maybe if they run to third instead of first and go around the diamond backwards you can score negative runs, as for the most suckiest im gonna have to say the nats since the cubbies are at home and will prob win 2 out of 3 </p><p>tonights match up is a good one with livan hernandez&nbsp;vs carlos zambrano</p><p>tommorrow is zach day vs sean marshall , pretty much a toss up there</p><p>thursday is ramon ortiz vs kerry wood i gotta give the nats the edge here because who knows what you're going to get with wood in his first start</p>

[Ogre]

<p>&nbsp;</p><p>thursday is ramon ortiz vs kerry wood i gotta give the nats the edge here because who knows what you're going to get with wood in his first start</p><p>Ramon Ortiz is not worth the fake paper his documents are printed on:</p><p>2006:&nbsp; 0-4&nbsp; 6.30 ERA&nbsp; 13k and 17&nbsp;BB&nbsp;in 40 innings.&nbsp; He stunk in Cincy last year too.&nbsp; This guy is what you get when you run MLBs soup kitchen.&nbsp; Poor Frank Robinson has to deal with Jim Bowden's raiding the dumpster out behind the winter meetings.&nbsp; So I would bet the farm on Woods and the Cubs&nbsp;on the getaway day Thurs.</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Ogre416 on 5-16-06 @ 7:16 PM</span>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>Zambrano pitches a gem and the Cubs win 4-0.&nbsp; Dusty Baker is a moron for letting Big Z pitch into the 8th, and I hate him with a white hot passion of pure loathing.&nbsp; The Cubs probably would have won 7-0 if Jacque Jones wasn't an absolute moron and got double off on a fly ball out for the THIRD FUCKING TIME this year.&nbsp; God, I hated his signing from the moment I heard it mentioned the Cubs were looking at him.</p><p>I'll be shocked if Wood doesn't pitch well on Thursday.&nbsp; I'm not expecting primo Kerry out of the gate, but he's too good a pitcher to shit the bed after all this build up...and he's always done very well the first 3-4 games after a DL stint.&nbsp; It's sad that that's a stat with him at this point.</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>Ogre416</strong> wrote:<br /><p>thursday is ramon ortiz vs kerry wood i gotta give the nats the edge here because who knows what you're going to get with wood in his first start</p><p>Ramon Ortiz is not worth the fake paper his documents are printed on:</p><p>2006:&nbsp; 0-4&nbsp; 6.30 ERA&nbsp; 13k and 17&nbsp;BB&nbsp;in 40 innings.&nbsp; He stunk in Cincy last year too.&nbsp; This guy is what you get when you run MLBs soup kitchen.&nbsp; Poor Frank Robinson has to deal with Jim Bowden's raiding the dumpster out behind the winter meetings.&nbsp; So I would bet the farm on Woods and the Cubs&nbsp;on the getaway day Thurs.</p><p>well i was just basing it on what i remember about ortiz from when he was an angel, i didnt know he been sucking ass since he left and this basically being spring training for wood </p>

[FezPaul]

<p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">D-backs start the 6th inning down 11-2, it is now 11-10, 2 out, still in the 6th.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font face="Courier New" size="2">Edit: Padres answer with 3 in the 7th, 14-10.</font></strong></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by FezPaul on 5-18-06 @ 12:09 AM</span>

[FezPaul]

<p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Diamondbacks are playing the Braves.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">No other games on.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Two stations broadcasting the same game.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Thanks for nothin'.</font></strong></p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>Well, the Cubs are about as bad as team can be, and are currently getting pounded in the prison shower by the White Sox as we speak, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctsYoWLgtuY" target="_blank">but Michael Barrett is the man I want to have my children a million times over.</a></p>

[cougarjake13]

maybe at TNA slammiversery we'll see A.J. Pierzynski vs Micheal &quot;lights out&quot;&nbsp;Barrett

[Marc with a c]

714.&nbsp;&nbsp; yippee!

[FezPaul]

<strong>evedder</strong> wrote:<br />714.&nbsp;&nbsp; yippee! <p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Seems to be over-shadowed by the brawl in Chicago.</font></strong></p>

[Don Stugots]

714, who cares? that guy can cry all he wants about how clean he is we all know he was/is more juiced up than Scot Steiner.

The Brawl in Chicago was great. Where was Double J to clock someone with the guitar.

[HBox]

Michael Barrett fan since day one!<br />

[kdubya]

<strong>STUGOTS1</strong> wrote:<br />714, who cares? that guy can cry all he wants about how clean he is we all know he was/is more juiced up than Scot Steiner. <p>I for one could care less if he used steroids. </p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by kdubya on 5-20-06 @ 6:23 PM</span>

[FezPaul]

<p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Brandon Webb was squared to bunt, then pulled up to swing, missed the ball, and fell down.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">He then sacrificed successfully with a textbook bunt.</font></strong></p>

[BoondockSaint]

Barret is a pussy.&nbsp; Part of the job of being a catcher is getting run over.&nbsp; So someone does it and you have to cheap shot him?&nbsp; And when you get a clear cheap shot to the jaw you better&nbsp; knock him down.

[TheMojoPin]

<p>I'm not gonna act like Barrett doing what he did was smart or the right thing to do, but it didn't just come out of nowhere.&nbsp; For one, AJ has a huge reputation throughout baseball of being a dick of beyond Bonds-ian proportions.&nbsp; His own teammates usually have and still do hate him.&nbsp; With the play today, he hit Barrett cleanly, but it was totally unecessary since the throw wasn't even close.&nbsp; Combine that with him slapping the base, yelling shit out at Barrett and then elbowing him on his way back to the dugout, Barrett tweeked and took a shot.&nbsp; I think it was a decent punch...AJ bolted like a little girl after he got hit.</p><p>In all, it was a stupid move on AJ's part and even stupider response by Barrett.&nbsp; Sadly, it's just par for the course with how stupidly the Cubs have played and been run this season.</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 5-20-06 @ 11:53 PM</span>

[Fallon]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>TheMojoPin</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I'm not gonna act like Barrett doing what he did was smart or the right thing to do, but it didn't just come out of nowhere. For one, AJ has a huge reputation throughout baseball of being a dick of beyond Bonds-ian proportions. His own teammates usually have and still do hate him. With the play today, he hit Barrett cleanly, but it was totally unecessary since the throw wasn't even close. Combine that with him slapping the base, yelling shit out at Barrett and then elbowing him on his way back to the dugout, Barrett tweeked and took a shot. I think it was a decent punch...AJ bolted like a little girl after he got hit.</p><p>In all, it was a stupid move on AJ's part and even strupider response by Barrett. Sadly, it's just par for the course with how stupidly the Cubs have played and been run this season.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img width="215" height="282" border="0" src="http://www.popstarsplus.com/images/HomerSimpsonPicture.gif" />&nbsp;</p>

[BoondockSaint]

I saw it completely different, MOJO.&nbsp; (And there is no baiting here, just honest discussion)&nbsp; Barret took a stance to block the plate so how is the runner to know that the ball won't get there in time?&nbsp;&nbsp; And yes, banging the plate was a bit much, but do you really need to grab and punch him and get yourself, the cleanup hitter, thrown out of the game?

[TheMojoPin]

<p>I'm not sure what you want me to say.&nbsp; It was a stupid move on Barrett's part...that I love watching over and over again.</p><p>Yeah, AJP could have slid...but in the end the actually hit (AJ colliding with Barrett)&nbsp;was fine.&nbsp; It was slapping the plate, talking shit, and giving Barrett the 'bow that set Barrett off and got AJ slugged.&nbsp; Those were all unecessary dick moves.&nbsp; Did Barrett pick the worst response?&nbsp; Of course.&nbsp; But it's big baseball rivalry and there was a lot of stress in the air.&nbsp; This kind of shit has happened all throughout the game's history.&nbsp; Dick moves are met with dick moves.&nbsp; Don't slap the plate, talk smack and elbow a guy&nbsp; whilegoing for your helmet when all you did was score on a sac fly, period.</p><p>And man, it really doesn't matter that Barrett is out.&nbsp; The Cubs suck with him and anyone else.&nbsp; What, they go from shitty to extra shitty?&nbsp; Whoopdee-fucking-doo.&nbsp; I hope Zambrano snaps Jim Thome in half like a ragdoll tomorrow.&nbsp; Sure, the Sox will win 43-0, but you gotta take those little victories when your season is a sack of flaming, diseased medical waste.</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 5-20-06 @ 11:51 PM</span>

[Snoogans]

<p>&nbsp;</p><p><span class="postbody">With the play today, he hit Barrett cleanly, but
it was totally unecessary since the throw wasn't even close.&nbsp; Combine
that with him slapping the base, yelling shit out at Barrett and then
elbowing him on his way back to the dugout, Barrett tweeked and took a
shot.&nbsp; I think it was a decent punch...AJ bolted like a little girl
after he got hit.</span>&nbsp;</p><p>there was another thing i was thinkin too. I dont know if its the case, but if you were a SS and you got spiked, especially if it was really unnecc like this was, and it was by the other SS, wouldnt you be a little extra pissed? Of all people, Pierzinsky would know best about how much it sucks to get run over. So when it was really not needed, I'd be a little extra pissed if the catcher ran me over. He should know&nbsp;</p>

[BoondockSaint]

I guess the thing is that I haven't seen him throw the elbow until he was grabbed by Barret.

[Marc with a c]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>TheMojoPin</strong> wrote:<br />Sure, the Sox will win
43-0, but you gotta take those little victories when your <strike><font size="1">season </font></strike><font size="1">franchise</font> is a
sack of flaming, diseased medical waste.

<span class="post_edited"><br />
</span><p>&nbsp;</p><p>fixed it for you mojo, no need to thank me.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<strong>BoondockSaint</strong> wrote:<br />I guess the thing is that I haven't seen him throw the elbow until he was grabbed by Barret. <p>It's when AJP is on his feet&nbsp;and going for his helmet.&nbsp; Barrett is getting up and AJ knocks him aside with his elbow.</p><p>evedder, I agree 1000%.&nbsp; This team is run by idiots.&nbsp; Until it's sold to an owner a la Steinbrenner or Cuban, they will never win a WS in my lifetime, and probably not even get to one.</p>

[Bulldogcakes]

<p><a href="http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-05-21T014146Z_01_N20270504_RTRUKOC_0_US-BASEBALL-BONDS-BALL.xml&src=rss&rpc=22" target="_self" title="Guy who caught #714 hates Bonds">Guy who caught #714 hates Bonds</a></p><p> </p><p> </p>
<p>Snyder did not mince words when describing Bonds, who is widely
disliked outside San Francisco because of steroid allegations and a
surly reputation.</p>
<p>&quot;I hate that guy,&quot; Snyder said when asked if he
would give the ball to Bonds, before stadium officials announced that
the 19-year-old college student had departed the game early.</p>
<p>At a
news conference after the game, Bonds said he was mystified by such
sentiments. &quot;I don't have any idea why anyone would express any hatred
toward any other person that you don't know,&quot; he said.</p>
<p> </p> <p> </p>
<p>And he just hit Lotto</p>
<p> </p><p> </p>
<p>In October 2001 fans got into a violent scramble to recover Bonds
season record 73rd home run. The ball ended up fetching $450,000 at
auction, just enough for the two men to cover their legal fees as a
court ordered the men to split the proceeds.</p>
<p>Bonds' 700th career
home run ball reportedly drew a winning bid of $804,129 in 2004 in an
online auction. A fan also sued, saying the ball was rightfully his,
but lost the case.</p>
<p> </p> <p> </p>
<p>I personally wouldn't pay a dime for that ball, I think his feat is
illegitimate. The Babe was the greatest ballplayer who ever lived, call
me when Bonds wins 20 games as a pitcher. Call me when he loses about 1,000 AB's. Babe Ruth is the symbol of
the golden age of Baseball, when it became the national pastime. Bonds
is the poster boy for the steroid era. And Babe Ruth is beloved,
Bonds isn't even <em>liked</em>. </p><p>If Bonds thinks he can hit
715 HR's and be greater than the Babe, he is sadly mistaken. People
will talk about the Babe as long as baseball is played. People want to
forget Bonds as soon as possible, and are hoping someone like Pugols or
A-Rod wipe out whatever records he holds as soon as possible. </p><p> </p><p>. </p>
<a href="http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-05-21T014146Z_01_N20270504_RTRUKOC_0_US-BASEBALL-BONDS-BALL.xml&src=rss&rpc=22" target="_self" title="Guy who caught #714 hates Bonds"></a>



<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 5-21-06 @ 9:10 AM</span>

[Bulldogcakes]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>BoondockSaint</strong> wrote:<br />I
saw it completely different, MOJO. (And there is no baiting here, just
honest discussion) Barret took a stance to block the plate so how is
the runner to know that the ball won't get there in time? And yes,
banging the plate was a bit much, but do you really need to grab and
punch him and get yourself, the cleanup hitter, thrown out of the game?<p>&nbsp;</p><p>Barret
was interviewed after the game and said he didn't take exception to the
hit, but to the way AJ walked through him and shoved him after the
play. I think it was unintentional, and both guys were probably in some
pain at the time, but Barret deserves 10 games for that incident, and
AJ none. You just cant sucker punch someone like that who isn't even
arguing with you at the time. &nbsp;</p><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>Bulldogcakes</strong> wrote:<br /><p><a title="Guy who caught #714 hates Bonds" href="http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-05-21T014146Z_01_N20270504_RTRUKOC_0_US-BASEBALL-BONDS-BALL.xml&src=rss&rpc=22" target="_self">Guy who caught #714 hates Bonds</a></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Snyder did not mince words when describing Bonds, who is widely disliked outside San Francisco because of steroid allegations and a surly reputation.</p><p>&quot;I hate that guy,&quot; Snyder said when asked if he would give the ball to Bonds, before stadium officials announced that the 19-year-old college student had departed the game early.</p><p>At a news conference after the game, Bonds said he was mystified by such sentiments. &quot;I don't have any idea why anyone would express any hatred toward any other person that you don't know,&quot; he said.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>And he just hit Lotto</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>In October 2001 fans got into a violent scramble to recover Bonds season record 73rd home run. The ball ended up fetching $450,000 at auction, just enough for the two men to cover their legal fees as a court ordered the men to split the proceeds.</p><p>Bonds' 700th career home run ball reportedly drew a winning bid of $804,129 in 2004 in an online auction. A fan also sued, saying the ball was rightfully his, but lost the case.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I personally wouldn't pay a dime for that ball, I think his feat is illegitimate. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>but at the time it was thought to be legitimate, but now in hindsight it isn't but the potential to make money on it was still there </p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>A short one act:</p><p>&quot;The Cubs surely are NOT the worst team in MLB this year!&quot;</p><p><img height="238" src="http://static.flickr.com/45/151576456_fd32c147f0.jpg" width="317" border="0" /></p><p>And scene.</p><p>Way to choke to the firggin' Marlins...against yet another decent pitching prospect you dumped.&nbsp; Rack up Nolasco with Koronka and Van Buren as pitching prospects having great years the Cubs either dumped for next to nothing or got fleeced on.</p><p>This organization is doomed for the forseeable future.</p>

[spoon]

<strong>TheMojoPin</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>BoondockSaint</strong> wrote:<br />I guess the thing is that I haven't seen him throw the elbow until he was grabbed by Barret. <p>It's when AJP is on his feet&nbsp;and going for his helmet.&nbsp; Barrett is getting up and AJ knocks him aside with his elbow.</p><p>evedder, I agree 1000%.&nbsp; This team is run by idiots.&nbsp; Until it's sold to an owner a la Steinbrenner or Cuban, they will never win a WS in my lifetime, and probably not even get to one.</p><p>Easy on the Steinbrenner worship.&nbsp; He spends the most every fucking year on the best free agents...ooohhhh what an owner!&nbsp; He's not savy, cost-effective nor even respected.&nbsp; He's simply a very ego based owner who buys every player he wants in a unbalanced league.&nbsp; I find it hard to put much kudos to the likes of King George.&nbsp; I'd much rather you give praise to owners who really deserve it (eg. Lou of the NJ Devils) as opposed to a guy pretty much playing fantasy baseball versus guys with huge handicaps and the ability to cover up all his errors.&nbsp; And there are a million of them.&nbsp; </p>

[mdr55]

Don't Owner Hate.<br />

[spoon]

How about poster hate you mother fucker?

[El Mudo]

First things first

<hr color="cococo" align="left"></font>
The Babe was the greatest ballplayer who ever lived
<hr color="cococo" align="left">

I disagree:

<img src='http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/sportscentury/inline/mays.jpg' border=0>

Secondly:


<hr color="cococo" align="left"></font>
Easy on the Steinbrenner worship. He spends the most every fucking year on the best free agents...ooohhhh what an owner! He's not savy, cost-effective nor even respected. He's simply a very ego based owner who buys every player he wants in a unbalanced league. I find it hard to put much kudos to the likes of King George. I'd much rather you give praise to owners who really deserve it (eg. Lou of the NJ Devils) as opposed to a guy pretty much playing fantasy baseball versus guys with huge handicaps and the ability to cover up all his errors. And there are a million of them.


<hr color="cococo" align="left">

The problem isn't really with Steinbrenner. The problem is the fact that he and the other big market teams basically subsidize all these other teams that use their revenue sharing money to make themselves a profit instead of turning it back into the team...Milwaukee did this for YEARS and teams like KC and Florida stink because they hide behind their awful markets and refuse to spend money on their teams. Billy Beane has consistently one of the smallest payrolls in baseball, yet does not hide behind his market or terrible ballpark and puts competitive teams every year

I'm no Steinbrenner lover, but I'd rather have an owner that's willing to spend money on his team, rather than a douchebag like Peter Angelos that doesn't

What "handicaps" other teams is not lack of money, but infefficient organizations that make dumb decisions...Look at the White Sox and Angels...they are going to be great for years to come because they have made GREAT decisions in the front office and have stocked up so much talent...Theyre not dealing Scott Kazmir to the D-Rays for Victor Zambrano or signing washed up Sammy Sosa, or dealing Grady Sizemore and Cliff Lee for Bartolo Colon (thank you Omar Minaya, I will now stab myself)

All you have to know is, spending money, at least nowadays, does not guarantee a WS win...

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by El Mudo on 5-23-06 @ 2:34 AM</span>

[spoon]

<p>Yah, but it sure as hell does give you a much better chance.&nbsp; And the Yanks can spend more freely bc they get such a lucrative tv deal and make more hence have a ton more to spend as well.&nbsp; If the Brewers or the other teams make huge moves not being close, they're throwing their money away.&nbsp; And Angelos does spend money, Tejada and many others.&nbsp; He just can't hide errors like Sosa like the Yanks can with the likes of Weaver, Brown, Wright and many others.&nbsp; </p><p>Bottom line is that MLB overall is the product, but Georgie won't have any talk of working to a better, more competitive league.&nbsp; Fact is he needs the money advantage in order to fleece the other teams and as soon as the system gets changed, the Yanks will be fucked for years bc their system is in shambles and their payroll would be WAY too high and they need to cut a ton of stars.&nbsp; They'd be fucked.&nbsp; But the truth is that MLB will continue to lose fans across the nation outside of the same few big markets and the sporatic hot spots in some minor markets that are savy enough to put a good year or two together.&nbsp; Because as soon as they develop players far enough, tthe Yanks, Sox and other big market teams use these small market teams as their upper farm system.&nbsp; The league needs to tackle this soon, even if the players union fights back, bc the national pastime continues to drop in popularity, especially with all this steroid bullshit and how they handled it.&nbsp; MLB needs a min and a top cap in order to secure the future of the league.&nbsp; Sure MLB will be fine without it, but it sure won't progress without it.&nbsp; They need a strong commish who has at least one ball to stand up to George and the other owners and the union.&nbsp; For this, just like in the recent NHL lockout, I'd be fine losing a season.&nbsp; We're getting fleeced at the gate for these games, and do MLB players come close to deserving what they get paid?&nbsp; They get way more then the average NFLer and it blows me away.&nbsp; They also need a full out rev sharing as well.&nbsp; Get the fucking league as a whole in order.&nbsp; Let's not fucking worry about the few that don't need the help.</p><p>The NFL is&nbsp;the top league by far for many&nbsp;reasons but also&nbsp;bc they work as a league and the big market teams have no advantage.&nbsp; The Giants and Jets don't have the advantage the Mets and Yanks have in baseball or even close.&nbsp; Hence the whole league is fun to watch and all have a sense of hope at the beginning of every season.&nbsp; That isn't even close to the case in MLB as the same teams seem to be there year after year.&nbsp; Hell, the AL East has finished the same 1,2,3 for every year over the last decade +&nbsp;except the one year the Jays finished 4th instead of 3rd.&nbsp; That's about as exciting as watching Snoogans smoke a bong year after year.&nbsp; In football most can watch almost any game.&nbsp; Can you say the same about baseball?&nbsp; I doubt it, and it's bc of the way these leagues are run right now.&nbsp; When I was a kid in the 70's/80's, I remember watching any game at all and the league wasn't so precdictable.&nbsp; They need to change before the chance passes them by.&nbsp; I'm not that optomistic this will happen though.&nbsp; </p>

[El Mudo]

Bottom line is that MLB overall is the product, but Georgie won't have any talk of working to a better, more competitive league. Fact is he needs the money advantage in order to fleece the other teams and as soon as the system gets changed, the Yanks will be fucked for years bc their system is in shambles and their payroll would be WAY too high and they need to cut a ton of stars. They'd be fucked. But the truth is that MLB will continue to lose fans across the nation outside of the same few big markets and the sporatic hot spots in some minor markets that are savy enough to put a good year or two together. Because as soon as they develop players far enough, tthe Yanks, Sox and other big market teams use these small market teams as their upper farm system. The league needs to tackle this soon, even if the players union fights back, bc the national pastime continues to drop in popularity, especially with all this steroid bullshit and how they handled it. MLB needs a min and a top cap in order to secure the future of the league. Sure MLB will be fine without it, but it sure won't progress without it. They need a strong commish who has at least one ball to stand up to George and the other owners and the union. For this, just like in the recent NHL lockout, I'd be fine losing a season. We're getting fleeced at the gate for these games, and do MLB players come close to deserving what they get paid? They get way more then the average NFLer and it blows me away. They also need a full out rev sharing as well. Get the fucking league as a whole in order. Let's not fucking worry about the few that don't need the help.


I would agree with you if every single free agent was going to NY and that's not the case. Minnesota just locked up Santana last year, and I don't see Pujols going to NY, nor do I see Sizemore or Lee. The Yankees can't possibly take every single good player, because now there's simply too many of them and the Yankees are stuffed full of huge contracts and old players

What developed players have they taken from one of these "upper-level farm clubs" you talk of? For one, most of their talent is home grown, and secondly, they've spent their money on aging sluggers and pitchers and veterans and dealt away prospects in return

I don't understand how he's "fleecing" the other teams...With the money he puts in to baseball, he is subsidizing the other teams. And again, its not like any of these teams are financially crippled...they just will not spend the money or will not risk dealing away prospects for talent

I also don't understand how you view the league as non competitive. There are plenty of good teams out there, with a chance at a title...The White Sox, Cardinals, the A's, Tigers, Blue Jays...heck everyone in the NL West is over .500 right now, so its not like its the Yankees and Boston and then everyone else is the Royals



The NFL is the top league by far for many reasons but also bc they work as a league and the big market teams have no advantage. The Giants and Jets don't have the advantage the Mets and Yanks have in baseball or even close. Hence the whole league is fun to watch and all have a sense of hope at the beginning of every season. That isn't even close to the case in MLB as the same teams seem to be there year after year. Hell, the AL East has finished the same 1,2,3 for every year over the last decade + except the one year the Jays finished 4th instead of 3rd. That's about as exciting as watching Snoogans smoke a bong year after year. In football most can watch almost any game. Can you say the same about baseball? I doubt it, and it's bc of the way these leagues are run right now. When I was a kid in the 70's/80's, I remember watching any game at all and the league wasn't so precdictable. They need to change before the chance passes them by. I'm not that optomistic this will happen though.




The NFL has the top league because the big markets don't have an advantage?

How much does this guy spend every year?

[i

[Bulldogcakes]

<p><a href="http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/ballot?event_id=2189&incoming=1" target="_self" title="Worst trades in baseball history">Worst trades in baseball history</a></p><p>Wow. Some I remember, others just blow you away. And everybody's on there somewhere. &nbsp;</p><a href="http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/ballot?event_id=2189&incoming=1" target="_self" title="Worst trades in baseball history"></a>

[El Mudo]

A lot of this stuff is just hindsight being 20/20

For instance:

Twins: Releasing David Ortiz (2002)
That's right. They not only didn't want him, they didn't get anything for him.

Ortiz was coming off consecutive years where he had broken his wrist and really hadn't shown anything...plus the Twins believed in Doug Mientkiewicz

Marlins: Trading every high-priced player after winning World Series (1997-98)
Moises Alou, Gary Sheffield, Kevin Brown, Al Leiter..

They couldn't afford to keep any of those guys....and the same with their last house cleaning

Mariners: Trading Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek to Red Sox for Heathcliff Slocumb (1997)
Nine years later, Lowe and Varitek still productive major leaguers; Slocumb went 2-9 with 4.97 ERA and 13 saves with M's.

There's a bunch of deals like this on there....If you believe you can make your team better by trading prospects for established talent, I believe that's always the move to make...THIS year matters more than five years from now

Reds: Trading Frank Robinson to O's for Milt Pappas, etc. (1965)
Deal turned Orioles into powerhouse, might have cost Reds a division title in '69.

Deals like this deserved to be ridiculed...especially since the O's thought Robinson was done

Braves: John Rocker (2001)
Enough said.

Rocker was a heck of a relief pitcher before he (a) put his foot into his mouth and (b) completely blew his arm out

Brewers: Drafting B.J. Surhoff with No. 1 overall pick (1985)
Surhoff was a good player, but Brewers could have picked Will Clark, Barry Larkin, or Barry Bonds.

Drafts are crapshoots...enough said...either you get a great player or garbage

Giants: Trading Joe Nathan, Francisco Liriano, and Boof Bonser to Twins for A.J. Pierzynski (2003)
Jury's still out on prospects Liriano and Bonser, but Nathan alone has made this one look pretty awful.

This one i agree with....Pierzynski has always been a clubhouse cancer

Athletics: Trading Tim Hudson to Braves for Charles Thomas, Dan Meyer and Juan Cruz (2004)
Since the trade all three ex-Braves have seen most of their action in the minors, and none look like future stars.

Again....the A's couldn't afford to keep Hudson, Mulder, and Zito

Indians: Trading Brian Giles to Pirates for Ricardo Rincon (1998)
The Pirates eventually traded Giles for Jason Bay and Oliver Perez; the Indians eventually traded Rincon for Marshall McDougall.


This is one of those deals people like to point out along with the Bagwell/Larry Andersen deal...again, you have to do what's best for your team THAT SEASON....like when Omar Minaya traded Cliff Lee and Grady Sizemore for Bartolo Colon...if you have a legitamite need on your team and you feel you can win that year, you've got to deal prospects...itll kill you down the road, but "down the raod" isn't as important as where you are now

[El Mudo]

The ESPN Insider Rumor Mill says Clemens has narrowed it down to either Houston or Boston

--May 26 - The Rangers, Astros, Yankees, and Red Sox are intensifying their pursuit of Roger Clemens, the Boston Globe reports. According to a source close to the situation, the decision will be between Boston and Houston, with the Astros holding a slight advantage.

Clemens is supposed to decide the first week of June after completing a three-week at-home training regimen to determine how close he is to returning to game action.

When told someone close to the talks is saying it's between Boston and Houston, agent Randy Hendricks replied, "I think someone is guessing. We have not told anyone that they are out. I do think he is leaning towards playing if he makes it through all of his workouts."

Also:

Tim Hudson:

May 26 - If the Braves fall out of contention in the NL East, Tim Hudson could become available, The New York Post reports. Hudson is due $33 million from 2007 to 2009 and $2 million more for the second half of this season.

Livan Hernandez:

May 26 - Livan Hernandez is expected to be moved when the Nationals clean house next month, The New York Post reports.

Juan Pierre:

May 26 - Center fielder Juan Pierre might not even log one full season as a Cub, the Chicago Sun-Times reports. Pierre could command between $10 million and $12 million a year as a free agent after the season, and even though Pierre has performed poorly, that often isn't reflected in what agents seek in salary.

Pierre could be GM Jim Hendry's most difficult decision in the next two months. He and Pierre's agents agreed to wait and see how Pierre played this season before discussing a new contract.

If the Cubs don't trade Pierre and he leaves via free agency, they would have nothing to show for trading three pitchers to the Marlins last December.

And Big Dontrelle:

May 26 - The Marlins are telling teams that Dontrelle Willis isn't available, but that is likely a ploy to drive the price up, The New York Post reports.

If the Marlins shop Willis, his chances of landing with the Yankees are slim. They aren't going to part with Robinson Cano or Chien-Ming Wang, and one of them would have to head a package that includes top pitching prospect Philip Hughes and top hitting prospect Eric Duncan.

Contenders with deep farm systems have the best shot at acquiring Willis. The Diamondbacks, Red Sox, Braves, Rangers, Dodgers, Angels, Blue Jays and Mets are expected to be interested.

Willis, who has a $4.35 million contract this season, is the highest-paid player on a team with 13 rookies and a total payroll of $15 million -- but he wants to stay, the Palm Beach Post reports. "I'm happy here," said Willis. "That's no lie. ... This is the place that gave me my opportunity. No one else gave me an opportunity like this. This is a great group of guys."

[TheMojoPin]

<p>Happily, I've come into full acceptance of how ugly and awful the Cubs are this year.&nbsp; At this point, it's fun seeing how they manage to lose (like today, Aramis Ramirez taking a pop up off his head in extra innings), and each disastrous loss makes it that much more impossible for the organization to truck on without being forced closer to firing Dusty and his band of coaching idiots.&nbsp; Ironically, the last time the Cubs were this bad, in 2002, it got Don Baylor fired and Dusty came in for 2003 and, well, we all know what happened then...</p><p>Bama, did you watch today's game?&nbsp; It felt like I was living in&nbsp;pure&nbsp;insanity.&nbsp; Cubs lose in 11 innings, 13-12...Braves hit 8 home runs...Cubs hit none, but strike out the Braves 18 times.&nbsp; What th-?!?&nbsp; Thank your boys for the sweep...I want Dusty out and that's only gonna help!</p>

[Bama]

<p>Yeah, I saw today's game. The funny thing was I decided that I liked the WGN telecast more than the TBS one. Chip Carey SUCKS!!!!!!!</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I thought it was over in the 7th when they were up 12-8 or something like that. Surprise, surprise the bullpen blew it. Chris Reitsma&nbsp;better never pitch again. He makes me yearn for the days of Danny Kolb. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>i would say that Smoltz needs to go to the bullpen but his performance today kind of makes that sound dumb.</p>

[Marc with a c]

715 yipee!

[Bama]

I watched the lead up to 714 every night on ESPN with absolutely no payoff! I missed 714 and 715. I'll be damned if I miss 756 (if it comes).

[margin]

<strong></strong>&nbsp;<strong>Bulldogcakes</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>...</p><p>I personally wouldn't pay a dime for that ball, I think his feat is illegitimate. The Babe was the greatest ballplayer who ever lived, call me when Bonds wins 20 games as a pitcher. Call me when he loses about 1,000 AB's. Babe Ruth is the symbol of the golden age of Baseball, when it became the national pastime. Bonds is the poster boy for the steroid era. And Babe Ruth is beloved, Bonds isn't even <em>liked</em>. </p><p>If Bonds thinks he can hit 715 HR's and be greater than the Babe, he is sadly mistaken. People will talk about the Babe as long as baseball is played. People want to forget Bonds as soon as possible, and are hoping someone like Pugols or A-Rod wipe out whatever records he holds as soon as possible. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Does hitting 715 homeruns mean you are attacking Babe Ruth? You can't compare modern baseball to&nbsp;the Ruth&nbsp;days.&nbsp; I'm not even sure Ruth even existed it was so long ago.&nbsp; The man is a legend who did amazing stuff.</p><p>You sure Pujols and A-Rod haven't used in their career? The fact is that a ton of major leaguers have used steroids,&nbsp;because they want to play the best they can and they know the league was letting them get away with it.&nbsp;&nbsp;A lot of people claim that the reason they hate Bonds is because he probably used steroids; A lot of these same people were cheering for McGuire back in '97. Hypocrisy is weird, you gotta be consistant about things.</p><p>So if you want to buy into the way media shows Bonds, he is introverted, and he's aloof, and treats people like shit. Ok, you wanna hate who he is off the field, don't disparage the record, the man still went up to the plate and physically hit 715 balls over the fence.</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by margin on 5-30-06 @ 3:08 PM</span>

[TheMojoPin]

<p><a href="http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-sprog0530,0,6890705.story?coll=ny-homepage-bigpix2005" target="_blank">Rocket goes with the 'Stros.</a></p>

[Marc with a c]

<p>that isn't good news for you and your boys mojo. hopefully this will cheer you up.</p><p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2462624">http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2462624</a></p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>How is it bad news?&nbsp; What, the Cubs still had a chance?&nbsp; Yeah, nice try.&nbsp; Anyone with half a brain knows they were done 2-3 weeks ago.&nbsp; The rest of the division can do whatever the hell they want.</p><p>And of course I know how Prior did.&nbsp; And of course I STILL maintain the Cubs need to do a la Halladay and the Jays.&nbsp; Shut Prior down for the year...he's useless for a team this shitty.&nbsp; Let him fully heal and rehab, change his mechanics if necessary.&nbsp; The guy's muscles are like mush at this point with all of his inactivity since this past winter.&nbsp; Let him rebuild and be ready for next year when the Cubs can have him and Zambrano for the big 1-2 punch.&nbsp; See if Wade Miller comes back and they can net him cheap.&nbsp; Sign back Maddux for the last 2 years he says he wants to play to pitch #4.&nbsp; And they've had a dynamite rookie pitcher, Sean Marshall, come on and really show what he has.&nbsp; I think they definitely need to go out there and pick up another quality, reliable starter for 2007.&nbsp; Wood needs to go...I like the guy, but his time has come and gone here.&nbsp; Let him build up a few more quality starts and trade him to a contending team desperate for pitching...like the Yanks.&nbsp; Offer Wood, Aramis Ramirez, Angel Guzman or Rich Hill and cash for someone like A-Rod.&nbsp; The Cubs need to think about rebuilding NOW.&nbsp; Carlos Lee says he wants to play in Chicago again...throw him some serious cash when the season is over.&nbsp; See if the Phillies really want to trade Abreu, or if Tejada and the O's are still in a weird relationship.&nbsp; Shit, see if the Marlins might deal Cabrera.&nbsp; You literally sell the famr for someone like that.</p><p>Bottom line, big, bold moves are needed.&nbsp; I just have little confidence the current management will do anything even close to that.</p>

[Marc with a c]

<p>yikes. a little sensitive mojo? </p><p>i think to solve the problem all they need to do is overpay for some middle relivers that have had one good season in their career.</p>

[El Mudo]

The GM and the Agent are denying it...so I'm taking it with a grain of salt right now

He should go to Boston...out of all the teams that want him, they have the best chance to win

[TheMojoPin]

<p>yikes. a little sensitive mojo?</p><p>Well, you're always going out of your way to be as douche-y as possible to when it comes to me and the Cubs, so, yeah.&nbsp; Quit being a prick.&nbsp; It would be one thing if I was some obnoxious loudmouth fan always slamming everyone else, but I'm not.&nbsp; You just like kicking someone when they're down.&nbsp; Case in point...</p><p>i think to solve the problem all they need to do is overpay for some middle relivers that have had one good season in their career.</p><p>Did they overpay for Howry and Eyre?&nbsp; Yes.&nbsp; Is everyone overpaying for EVERYTHING right now?&nbsp; Yes.&nbsp; Are Eyre and Howry doing stunningly well as relievers?&nbsp; Good God, YES.&nbsp; Works for me.</p>

[Marc with a c]

<strong>TheMojoPin</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p>yikes. a little sensitive mojo? <p>&nbsp;</p><p>Well, you're always going out of your way to be as douche-y as possible to when it comes to me and the Cubs, so, yeah.&nbsp; Quit being a prick.&nbsp; It would be one thing if I was some obnoxious loudmouth fan always slamming everyone else, but I'm not.&nbsp; You just like kicking someone when they're down.&nbsp; Case in point...</p><p>&nbsp;</p>i think to solve the problem all they need to do is overpay for some middle relivers that have had one good season in their career. <p>&nbsp;</p><p>Did they overpay for Howry and Eyre?&nbsp; Yes.&nbsp; Is everyone overpaying for EVERYTHING right now?&nbsp; Yes.&nbsp; Are Eyre and Howry doing stunningly well as relievers?&nbsp; Good God, YES.&nbsp; Works for me.</p><p>mojo, relax buddy.&nbsp; i'm not going out of my way to be douchey.&nbsp; i'm a mets fan, i take as much crap as anybody. it's a joke i like the cubs, and even if i didn't why would you care? </p><p>if it bothers you that much i'll stop.&nbsp; </p>

[spoon]

<p>One thing is a definite in this argument, Mojo sure likes the topic icons!&nbsp; Hence I side with AJ in DC, meaning DMM should be banned.&nbsp; Come on, you two should easily follow this logic as it is faultless.&nbsp; You&nbsp;know you want to.</p>

[A.J.]

<p>Hence I side with AJ in DC, meaning DMM should be banned.&nbsp;</p><p>Huh?</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<strong>evedder</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>TheMojoPin</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p>yikes. a little sensitive mojo? <p>&nbsp;</p><p>Well, you're always going out of your way to be as douche-y as possible to when it comes to me and the Cubs, so, yeah.&nbsp; Quit being a prick.&nbsp; It would be one thing if I was some obnoxious loudmouth fan always slamming everyone else, but I'm not.&nbsp; You just like kicking someone when they're down.&nbsp; Case in point...</p><p>&nbsp;</p>i think to solve the problem all they need to do is overpay for some middle relivers that have had one good season in their career. <p>&nbsp;</p><p>Did they overpay for Howry and Eyre?&nbsp; Yes.&nbsp; Is everyone overpaying for EVERYTHING right now?&nbsp; Yes.&nbsp; Are Eyre and Howry doing stunningly well as relievers?&nbsp; Good God, YES.&nbsp; Works for me.</p><p>mojo, relax buddy.&nbsp; i'm not going out of my way to be douchey.&nbsp; i'm a mets fan, i take as much crap as anybody. it's a joke i like the cubs, and even if i didn't why would you care? </p><p>if it bothers you that much i'll stop.&nbsp; </p><p>Sorry man, my bad.&nbsp; You're right, I am pretty sensitive about the Cubs right now...everything about them is making me so mad, but that's no excuse to take it out on other people.&nbsp; I apologize for my response, it was over the line and unecessary...go ahead and post what you want, I need to just pull the stick out of my ass!&nbsp; And the Cubs need to stop being so bad from the top to the bottom of the organization!</p>

[Marc with a c]

<p>ain't no thang sir.</p><p>i must've just caught you at the wrong time. i do feel your pain.</p><p>knicks in '07 baby!</p>

[Snoogans]

yea 3007<br />

[cougarjake13]

<p>hey mojo maybe this will cheer you up</p><p>phil nevin traded to cubs for hairston</p><p><a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5655230">http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5655230</a></p>

[cougarjake13]

<p>sorry yanks and sawx fans the rocket has landed back in houston</p><p>roger clemens re signs with the astros for a 22 mill prorated deal which works out to 12 mil for th 06 season</p><p><a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5651570">http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5651570</a></p>

[spoon]

<p>This year's all-star balloting has to be the worst of all-time!!&nbsp; Every fucking position in the AL is a yankee or red sox player, and a ton of cardinals in the NL.&nbsp; How is Varitek and Posada at the top of the AL catcher race with Mauer playing and hitting like he is.&nbsp; And that's just one position, but is it really that far off or do these teams horde most of the leagues best players and it's really MLB's doing and the votes just expose a fucked up league?&nbsp; I believe it's a little of both, along with stupid homer fans who disrespect the game proving most fans don't deserve to vote.&nbsp; Stop calling it an all-star game and rename it big market popularity contest winners.&nbsp; I just can't take just about everything about MLB in this era (late 90's on).&nbsp; From the steroids, contraction threats, dismantled teams that used to be great franchises (KC, MN, Det, Pitt and more), free agency gone wild, NY/Boston centric broadcasts/coverage everywhere and more.&nbsp; Did the league create this disparity?&nbsp; It sure as hell filters all its viewers to these two teams.&nbsp; So MLB better not cry when&nbsp;nobody gives a shit about the other 28 fucking teams.&nbsp; It's getting fucking real old.&nbsp; </p>

[spoon]

And yes I know Detroit is doing well so far, but will it last?&nbsp; And one decent&nbsp;start every 15 years doesn't mean a franchise is back on track.&nbsp; Chet Lemon, Alan Trammel and&nbsp;Sparky&nbsp;Anderson go way back,&nbsp;as&nbsp;does the last time this&nbsp;team was in it late in the year.&nbsp; &nbsp;

[HBox]

<p><span class="postbody">How is Varitek and Posada at the top of the AL catcher race with Mauer playing and hitting like he is.</span></p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BA &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; HR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; RBI&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; OBP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SLG &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; OPS </p><p> <br />Posada&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; .304&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 7&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 29&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; .411&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; .504&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; .915</p><p>Mauer &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; .365 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 25 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; .424 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; .500 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; .924</p><p>Seems incredibly even to me.&nbsp;</p>

[HBox]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>spoon</strong> wrote:<br />And yes I know Detroit is doing well so far, but will it last? And one decent start every 15 years doesn't mean a franchise is back on track. Chet Lemon, Alan Trammel and Sparky Anderson go way back, as does the last time this team was in it late in the year. <p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>With their pitching I'm sure they will be in in it and barring any Prior/Wood catasrophies, they should be in it in the years to come too. A lot of good young pitching, and Verlander is sick.</p>

[spoon]

<p>OK so here's Tek and he's leading:</p><p><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="613" border="0"><tr><td class="textSm" align="center">2006</td><td class="textSm" align="left">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=mlb&baseballScope=mlb&subScope=teamCode&teamPosCode=bos&statType=1&sitSplit=&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2006">Boston Red Sox</a></td><td class="textSm" align="center">43</td><td class="textSm" align="center">146</td><td class="textSm" align="center">23</td><td class="textSm" align="center">35</td><td class="textSm" align="center">6</td><td class="textSm" align="center">1</td><td class="textSm" align="center">5</td><td class="textSm" align="center">25</td><td class="textSm" align="center">58</td><td class="textSm" align="center">22</td><td class="textSm" align="center">21</td><td class="textSm" align="center">1</td><td class="textSm" align="center">1</td><td class="textSm" align="center">.337</td><td class="textSm" align="center">.397</td><td class="textSm" align="center">.240</td></tr></table></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I actually think Posada is one of the most underrated Yanks of their last golden era.&nbsp; I liked him even more once he seemed to not get along with pock-faced Johnson.&nbsp; Yet Mauer is better defensively throwing out 11 of 24 (46%)&nbsp;runners vs. 7 of 24 (29%)&nbsp;for Posada.&nbsp; And of course his range factor is 8.13 vs. 6.59 for Posada.&nbsp; Also, Mauer is much better at blocking the plate (although Posada had a few nice plays this year) and has deceptive speed with 4 SBs as a catcher!&nbsp; Overall, it is much closer between these two, but Mauer definitely deserves the vote thus far.&nbsp; Especially since he has very little help unlike Jorge in NY.</p>

[spoon]

<p>Ok, let's post our ballots for both leagues: </p><p>American League: </p><p><strong>1st - Konerko&nbsp;/ CHW</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (since he also actually plays the position)&nbsp; Hafner and Ortiz can battle for the DH spot when they fucking add it.</p><p><strong>2nd - M Grudzielanek /&nbsp;KC</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Perfect in the field with good avg. but low production due to playing in KC</p><p><strong>SS - Tejada / BAL</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Both he and Jeter are close and have 6 errors, but Tejada also brings the pop and more fielding range.</p><p><strong>3rd - Tough call here between Glaus &amp; Arod</strong>, so I'll post the&nbsp;both the offensive and defensive stats.&nbsp; Defense first:</p><p><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="606" border="0"><tr><td>&nbsp;</td><td><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=3&section3=null&readBoxes=true&c_id=mlb&venueID=&statSet3=null&baseballScope=AL&teamPosCode=5&compare.x=31&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=&prevPage3=1&compare.y=5&subScope=pos&timeSubFrame=2006&box1=XXXX121347nya5&box2=XXXX136267tor5&compare.x=&sortByStat=Last_Name&"><strong>Player</strong></a> </td><td rowspan="3"><img height="1" alt="" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=3&section3=null&readBoxes=true&c_id=mlb&venueID=&statSet3=null&baseballScope=AL&teamPosCode=5&compare.x=31&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=&prevPage3=1&compare.y=5&subScope=pos&timeSubFrame=2006&box1=XXXX121347nya5&box2=XXXX136267tor5&compare.x=&sortByStat=TEAM&"><strong>TEAM</strong></a> </td><td rowspan="3"><img height="1" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=3&section3=null&readBoxes=true&c_id=mlb&venueID=&statSet3=null&baseballScope=AL&teamPosCode=5&compare.x=31&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=&prevPage3=1&compare.y=5&subScope=pos&timeSubFrame=2006&box1=XXXX121347nya5&box2=XXXX136267tor5&compare.x=&sortByStat=POS&"><strong>POS</strong></a> </td><td rowspan="3"><img height="1" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=3&section3=null&readBoxes=true&c_id=mlb&venueID=&statSet3=null&baseballScope=AL&teamPosCode=5&compare.x=31&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=&prevPage3=1&compare.y=5&subScope=pos&timeSubFrame=2006&box1=XXXX121347nya5&box2=XXXX136267tor5&compare.x=&sortByStat=G&"><strong>G</strong></a> </td><td rowspan="3"><img height="1" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=3&section3=null&readBoxes=true&c_id=mlb&venueID=&statSet3=null&baseballScope=AL&teamPosCode=5&compare.x=31&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=&prevPage3=1&compare.y=5&subScope=pos&timeSubFrame=2006&box1=XXXX121347nya5&box2=XXXX136267tor5&compare.x=&sortByStat=GS&"><strong>GS</strong></a> </td><td rowspan="3"><img height="1" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=3&section3=null&readBoxes=true&c_id=mlb&venueID=&statSet3=null&baseballScope=AL&teamPosCode=5&compare.x=31&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=&prevPage3=1&compare.y=5&subScope=pos&timeSubFrame=2006&box1=XXXX121347nya5&box2=XXXX136267tor5&compare.x=&sortByStat=INN&"><strong>INN</strong></a> </td><td rowspan="3"><img height="1" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/trans.gif" width="1" border="0" /></td><td align="center"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=3&section3=null&readBoxes=true&c_id=mlb&venueID=&statSet3=null&baseballScope=AL&teamPosCode=5&compare.x=31&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=&prevPage3=1&compare.y=5&subScope=pos&timeSubFrame=2006&box1=XXXX121347nya5&box2=XXXX136267tor5&compare.x=&sortByStat=T

[HBox]

I'd pick Cano, Jeter and Rodriguez to start. Cano is unabashedly out of homerism, although if he starts it wouldn't be a travesty of justice, they are all pretty even up there. Jeter, it's probably factoring in a bit, but he's having a really good year. Rodriguez is one of the best in the game having a typical year, so he gets in there unapologetically.<br />

[Patches]

<img height="505" src="http://www.espn.go.com/photo/2006/0605/pg2_cards_385.jpg" width="385" border="0" />

[A.J.]

Nothing hurts more than&nbsp;strained Pujols.

[cougarjake13]

<p>i was hoping that he'd break bonds record but i guess there's no chance of that now</p><p>how long before the media starts up with pujols&nbsp;had the injury due to roids ???</p><p><img height="100" src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetCougarJake13.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p>

[cougarjake13]

<p>it always amazes me how the MLB Draft gets little to no attention especially compared to the way the world goes crazy for the NFL and NBA drafts </p><p>not that it deserves any but my point is how and why did the nfl and nba drafts become big media treasures whereas baseball is still just an after thought</p><p>i know one reason will be the fact that 1st rounders in the nfl and nba can have an immediate impact whereas most mlb picks wont even see triple A for at least 2 years let alone the majors </p><p><img height="100" src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetCougarJake13.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p>

[Snoogans]

<p>Also, the NBA and NFL drafts, though highly unpredictable, are more predictable then baseball. I think the biggest factor is length. Nobody really cares about NFL draft day 2, so that doesnt matter. Basically its just one day of everything that really will matter for 5 years. Basketball the whole draft is only 2 rounds. Baseball i think now its up to 19 million players picked every year, its insane.<br /></p>

[HBox]

Carlos Zambrano is one inning away from putting a no-hitter ribbon on this piece of shit Cubs season.<br />

[Fallon]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><font color="Navy"><font size="2">Carlos Zambrano is one inning away from putting a no-hitter ribbon on this piece of shit Cubs season.</font></font><br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Oooooooooh... sorry.</p><p>&nbsp;<img width="412" height="232" border="0" src="http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/mlb/2006/0104/photo/a_wilson_412.jpg" /></p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>So...very...CLOSE.</p><p>Z pitched his count too high too early...he was out of gas in the 7th.&nbsp; Ah well, 8 full innings, 2 walks, 1 hit, no runs allowed, 8 strikeouts, he hits a 3 run HR, 4 RBI's total, gets the win, an ERA down to 3.09, all at the whopping age of a freshly turned 25.&nbsp; ALL HAIL BIG Z.&nbsp; This was a beauty of a performance from top to bottom for him.</p><p>Cubs are 5-2 over the last 7 against division rivals.&nbsp; Beat the Reds and Cardinals 2 out of 3 each.&nbsp; About friggin' time...Lee and Prior back within 2 weeks, Wood pitching well again, the team hitting, the bullpen amazing, the rest of the NL Central in shambles...holy fuck, there might be an insane WC race down the line.&nbsp; Probably not, but hey, nice to finally have a tiny glimmer of fucking hope after how miserable May was.</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 6-6-06 @ 12:07 AM</span>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>&quot;NO, NO!!!&nbsp; EEEES TOO SEXY!!!&quot;</p><p><img height="512" src="http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/934b7f55-5d73-46fc-8108-0bf31401eeb6.jpg" width="367" border="0" /></p><p><img height="512" src="http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/26b84fdb-1607-41d8-b03d-b8861e48afe3.jpg" width="370" border="0" /></p><p><img height="512" src="http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/eaebfdba-c35b-416e-aacd-23c8690326e2.jpg" width="392" border="0" /></p>

[Patches]

<p>Nice to see the OFFICIAL CUBS THREAD gets a sticky.</p><p>I'm calling SHENANIGANS!</p>

[margin]

<p>16 k's !</p><p><img height="254" src="http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/549/108ff1.jpg" width="557" border="0" /></p>

[Gvac]

<p>Just in case no one noticed, guess which team is currently on a 7 game winning streak - including sweeping the Astros in Houston and the Cardinals in St. Louis?</p><p>That's right...The Big Red Machine!</p><p>Back in first.</p><p>Tonight's victim - the Cubbies!&nbsp;</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>Dude, they'd lose to your boys even if&nbsp;the Reds&nbsp;were just coming off of a seven game losing streak AND the freakish untimely death of Ken Griffey, jr..&nbsp; With Glendon &quot;Tits&quot; Rusch on the mound?&nbsp; Teams should pay the Cubs for letting that happen.</p><p>The Reds are pretty impressive, and it;d be nice to see someone trump the Cards in the NL Central...you just better hope they try and pick up a few more pitchers, 'cuz what you got now ain't gonna get you squat once the regular season ends.</p><p>As for other division news, this whole Jason Grimsely &quot;sting&quot; is looking more and more messy...some names are being dropped...some of the ones to be expected when these sort of talks arise, Sosa, Palmeiro, etc...but Tejada also shows up...and so does Albert Pujols.</p><p>Yowza.</p><p>Grimsley says that <a href="http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0607061grimsley14.html">a former employee of [redacted] and personal fitness trainer to several Major League Baseball players once referred him to an amphetamine source.</a> Later, this source &mdash; not the trainer &mdash; provided him with &ldquo;amphetamines, anabolic steroids and human growth hormone.&rdquo; This trainer? His name is <strong>Chris Mihlfeld</strong>, a Kansas City-based &ldquo;strength and conditioning guru.&rdquo; (And former <a href="http://www.cjonline.com/royals/content/frontoffice.shtml">Strength And Conditioning Coordinator</a> for the Royals.) </p><p>Does Mihlfeld&rsquo;s name sound familiar? If it doesn&rsquo;t, he &mdash; and we assure you, this gives us <em>no</em> pleasure to write this &mdash; <a href="http://www.810whb.com/scripts/archives/getstory.asp?article=12344&string=noSearch">has been Albert Pujols&rsquo; personal trainer</a> since before Pujols was drafted by the Cardinals in the 13th round of the 1999 draft. We have no confirmation that Pujols&rsquo; name is in the affidavit &hellip; but Mihlfeld&rsquo;s is. If you read the document, it doesn&rsquo;t say the trainer/Mihlfeld supplied all the HGH and what-not; it just says the trainer was the referrer.</p><p><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/editmessage.cfm/Forum/82/Topic/48762/Message/Grimsley%20says%20that%20a%20former%20employee%20o f%20[redacted]%20and%20personal%20fitness%20trainer%20to%20sever al%20Major%20League%20Baseball%20players%20once%20 referred%20him%20to%20an%20amphetamine%20source.%2 0Later,%20this%20source%20-%20not%20the%20trainer%20-%20provided%20him%20with%20"amphetamines,%20anabolic%20steroids%20and%20human% 20growth%20hormone."%20This%20trainer? His name is Chris Mihlfeld, a Kansas City-based "strength and conditioning guru." (And former Strength And Conditioning Coordinator for the Royals.)" target="_blank">This is the Cardinals blog I got it from.</a></p><p>Maybe we finally find out Fat Albert isn't as young as he claims, too...</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 6-8-06 @ 9:50 PM</span>

[Bama]

<p>HOW THE FUCK ARE THE BRAVES STILL 9 GAMES BEHIND THE FUCKING METS!!!!!!!!</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I HATE BASEBALL</p>

[Snoogans]

Cause they won like 2 games in 3 weeks<br />

[TheMojoPin]

<strong>Gvac</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Just in case no one noticed, guess which team is currently on a 7 game winning streak - including sweeping the Astros in Houston and the Cardinals in St. Louis?</p><p>That's right...The Big Red Machine!</p><p>Back in first.</p><p>Tonight's victim - the Cubbies!&nbsp;</p><p>As Dusty would no doubt say, &quot;hubris, dude.&quot;</p><p>Cubs take the series, 3 games out of 4.</p><p>Damn, I like Adam Dunn.&nbsp; I'd kill to see him hitting fulltime at Wrigley.</p><p>On the upside, Cubs have hopefully another out of nowhere rookie starting pitcher...Carlos Marmol.&nbsp; 1st start today and he goes 6 full innings, giving up only 1 run, 2 hits, 3 walks and 7 strikeouts.&nbsp; He had 4 stellar relief innings before that...small smaple size, obviously, but if he can stay decent, the Cubs having pulled him and Sean Marshall seemingly out of thin air will really free up a lot of options, namely trading off Maddux and Wood to competing teams and saving some big time cash for the FA's.&nbsp; Welcome to the Cubs, Carlos!</p>

[BoondockSaint]

<a href="http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/yank_rudy_swings_to_a_2nd_city_regionalnews_hasani _gittens.htm" target="_blank">Giuliani trying to buy Cubs.</a>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>BoondockSaint</strong> wrote:<br /><a href="http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/yank_rudy_swings_to_a_2nd_city_regionalnews_hasani _gittens.htm" target="_blank">Giuliani trying to buy Cubs.</a> <p>is he trying to go the george w. route to the presidency ???</p><p><img height="100" src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetCougarJake13.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p>

[spoon]

Does that mean he's going to run that team horribly, fleece it and run the other way leaving it for dead.

[cougarjake13]

<strong>spoon</strong> wrote:<br />Does that mean he's going to run that team horribly, fleece it and run the other way leaving it for dead. <p>it'd be no different than what current cubs owners are doing</p>

[kdubya]

Two words bitches: JOE MAUER

[spoon]

He's awesome and only cost a few hundred grand a year right now.

[cougarjake13]

<strong>spoon</strong> wrote:<br />He's awesome and only cost a few hundred grand a year right now. <p>how soon will it take for yankee fans to proclaiming him as the replacement for jorge posada ??</p><p><img height="100" src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetCougarJake13.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p>

[spoon]

<p>As soon as his price tag goes above 10 mil.</p>

[cougarjake13]

<p>you know what makes no sense ???</p><p>a starter has to go 5 innings to get a win but a reliever can pitch 1/3 of a inning or hell not get anyone out but still leave the game ahead and get the victory</p><p>case in point.. tonight glavine goes 4 1/3 but wont get the win, the win goes to bradford who only pitched the other 2/3 rds&nbsp; what the fuck gives ??/</p><p><img height="100" src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetCougarJake13.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p>

[Snoogans]

the best is, say you are up 5-0 and the starter gets hurt, so they bring in a long reliever to start the 4th say. If he finishes the game and never gives up the lead, he gets a win, a hold, and a save<br />

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Snoogans on 6-13-06 @ 10:47 PM</span>

[Marc with a c]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Snoogans</strong> wrote:<br />the
best is, say you are up 5-0 and the starter gets hurt, so they bring in
a long reliever to start the 4th say. If he finishes the game and never
gives up the lead, he gets a win, a hold, and a save<br />

<span class="post_edited">This message was edited by Snoogans on 6-13-06 @ 10:47 PM</span><p>&nbsp;</p><p>you can't get a win and a save in the same game, unless you stop pitching play a different position, then come back in to pitch.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Snoogans]

go look up records, re re. You can indeed. Someone earlier this year got a 14 out save, it doesnt matter. If you dont start, and come in before the 5th with a lead and finish the game, you get them all unless the lead was more then the outs remaining for the other team<br />

[Marc with a c]

how can you get a save and a win? &nbsp; if you come into the game
before the fifth and finish the game you can get the win, but not the
save.&nbsp; i am right<br />

[mikeyboy]

I don't think I've heard someone called a &quot;re re&quot;&nbsp;since I was in fourth grade.&nbsp; I'd admonish you for personal attacks, but since I think thats the equivalent of calling someone a boogerhead, it's probably not worth it.

[Marc with a c]

<table width="585" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tr><td width="450" valign="top" colspan="3"><font size="5" face="arial, geneva" color="#000000"><strong>Save Rule</strong></font><br /></td></tr><tr><td width="8"> <br />
</td><td width="577" valign="top" colspan="3"><table width="570" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td width="570" height="4"><br />
</td></tr><tr><td width="570" height="1"><br />
</td></tr><tr><td width="570" height="4"><br />
</td></tr></table><font size="2" face="arial, geneva"><strong>By Rob Neyer</strong></font><br /><br /></td></tr><tr><td width="8"> <br />
</td><td width="450" valign="top"><strong>10.20</strong> Credit a pitcher with a save when he meets all three of the following conditions<strong>:</strong><p>
</p><ul>
(1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and<p>
(2) <u>He is not the winning pitcher;</u> and</p><p>
(3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions:</p><p>
</p><ul>
(a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or<p>
(b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential
tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential
tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen
he faces); or</p><p>
(c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings.</p></ul></ul><p>
No more than one save may be credited in each game.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>take that boogerhead.&nbsp;</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>&nbsp;</p></td><td width="7"> <br />
</td><td width="120" valign="top"><br /><br /><br /><a href="http://transfer.go.com/cgi/transfer.pl?goto=http://store.espn.com/WebObjects/ESPNStore.woa/XQ/CEExternalQuery.wo/ProBaseball&name=1486&svc=sz"><img border="0" src="http://espn-att.starwave.com/store/mlb/store_mlbfront.gif" /></a></td></tr>
</table>
<br />
<table width="710" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tr><td width="125"><br />
</td><td width="8"><br />
</td><td width="577">

<table width="577" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tr><td width="577" height="4"><br />
</td></tr></table></td></tr>
</table>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by evedder on 6-13-06 @ 10:55 PM</span>

[cougarjake13]

<p>i also love it when you see a score of 10-3 and someone gets a save</p><p><img height="100" src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetCougarJake13.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p>

[Snoogans]

Well you might wanna explain that, vedder, the the guys on baseball tonight. I was kinda like you when I first heard it, but i was too lazy to look it up so i took it for truth. The guy who got the 14 out save they said recorded the win, the hold and the save<br />

[Snoogans]

And I called him a re re goofin cause I know he gets it, and wont cry like a girl<br />

[Marc with a c]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Snoogans</strong> wrote:<br />Well
you might wanna explain that, vedder, the the guys on baseball tonight.
I was kinda like you when I first heard it, but i was too lazy to look
it up so i took it for truth. The guy who got the 14 out save they said
recorded the win, the hold and the save<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>i've had this discussion a million times.&nbsp; i've played baseball since 5, and for some reason still play at 25.</p><p>i
can't think of a scenario when a pitcher can get a 14 out save.&nbsp; a
12 out save happens every so often like cougar said (10-3), but you
can't come into a game with a lead after the 5th, hold the lead and get
a win.&nbsp; just like you can't come into the game before the 7th and
get a save.&nbsp; </p><p>that is it on a very basic level.&nbsp; it can get complicated, and i'm not smart enough to explain it.&nbsp;</p><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Snoogans]

Yea i know, but they said 14 out save. However they also said he got the win and hold so what the fuck does karl ravach know. I played baseball too, but i played 3rd and SP, so i never really gave a fuck much what the save rules were. I fucked up, i shoulda checked before I trust anything from baseball tonight<br />

[Snoogans]

but you can come in before the seventh and get a save. Say your team is up 10-0 after 5, and you come in and get the last 12 outs, you get a save. that i know, it even says so in your save rule. Pitches effectively for at least 3 innings, that would be at least from the seventh<br />

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Snoogans on 6-13-06 @ 11:32 PM</span>

[spoon]

Man this hurts to say but...... Snoogans is right.&nbsp; It happened this year and I remember it clearly.&nbsp; That rule isn''t the end all obviously bc it's in the book a few times.

[Snoogans]

Thank you, i know i heard it. I wont rule out that ESPN was wrong, especially with recent trends, but i know i heard it. Devil Rays I think.<br />

[Bulldogcakes]

<p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=2483498" target="_self" title="D-Backs CUT Russ Ortiz, eat 22 mil ">D-Backs CUT Russ Ortiz, eat 22 mil </a></p><p>&nbsp;<strong>Bonus</strong> -- $3.5M<br />
<strong>2005</strong> -- $6.5M<br />
<strong>2006</strong> -- $7.0M<br />
<strong>2007</strong> -- $7.5M<br />
<strong>2008</strong> -- $8.5M</p><p>&nbsp;</p><table width="198" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="right"><tr valign="top"><td width="58">
&nbsp;
</td>
<td width="58">
<strong>BEFORE</strong>
</td>
<td width="58">
<strong>AFTER</strong>
</td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td width="">
<strong>W-L</strong>
</td>
<td width="">
103-60
</td>
<td width="">
5-16
</td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td width="">
<strong>ERA</strong>
</td>
<td width="">
4.01
</td>
<td width="">
6.94
</td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td width="">
<strong>K/BB</strong>
</td>
<td width="">
1.47
</td>
<td width="">
0.77
</td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td width="">
<strong>Opp. BA</strong>
</td>
<td width="">
.244
</td>
<td width="">
.324</td></tr></table><p>&nbsp;</p><p></p><p>That is just amazing. &nbsp;</p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=2483498" target="_self" title="D-Backs CUT Russ Ortiz, eat 22 mil "></a>

[Patches]

<strong>Bulldogcakes</strong> wrote:<br /><p><a title="D-Backs CUT Russ Ortiz, eat 22 mil " href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=2483498" target="_self">D-Backs CUT Russ Ortiz, eat 22 mil </a></p><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Bonus</strong> -- $3.5M<br /><strong>2005</strong> -- $6.5M<br /><strong>2006</strong> -- $7.0M<br /><strong>2007</strong> -- $7.5M<br /><strong>2008</strong> -- $8.5M<img class="mceButtonNormal" onmouseover="tinyMCE.switchClass(this,'mceButtonOver');" title="Edit HTML Source" onmouseout="tinyMCE.restoreClass(this);" height="20" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/themes/advanced/images/code.gif" width="20" border="0" /> <p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="198" align="right" border="0"><tr valign="top"><td width="58">&nbsp; </td><td width="58"><strong>BEFORE</strong> </td><td width="58"><strong>AFTER</strong> </td></tr><tr valign="top"><td><strong>W-L</strong> </td><td>103-60 </td><td>5-16 </td></tr><tr valign="top"><td><strong>ERA</strong> </td><td>4.01 </td><td>6.94 </td></tr><tr valign="top"><td><strong>K/BB</strong> </td><td>1.47 </td><td>0.77 </td></tr><tr valign="top"><td><strong>Opp. BA</strong> </td><td>.244 </td><td>.324</td></tr></table><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>That is just amazing. &nbsp;</p><a title="D-Backs CUT Russ Ortiz, eat 22 mil " href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=2483498" target="_self"></a><p>And thats not even the worst thing to happen to that organization lately.</p>

[margin]

<p>It's pretty crazy how close the NL West is.</p><p>All five teams are in first or within 2 games of first.</p><p>who do you guys think will win it?</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by margin on 6-16-06 @ 3:51 PM</span>

[MHasegawa]

<p>Hopefully not the giants</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img width="159" height="159" border="0" src="http://www.sportsgalleryweb.com/images/teams/oaklandas.gif" />&nbsp;</p>

[Bama]

<p>I was in elementary school the last time the Braves were this bad.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>What a freaking nightmare.</p>

[MHasegawa]

oilers lose the cup and oakland ends their 10 game win streak, today really sucked.<br />

[Fallon]

If a team tries to pick up Russ do they have to pay or does Zona?<br />

[Fallon]

<a href="http://www.kare11.com/video/player.aspx?aid=28734&bw=" target="_blank">Batboy to the rescue!</a><br />

[HBox]

I am a Yankee fan, and even though there's little chance he'll ever be on the Yanks since Philadelphia can afford him, Ryan Howard is the shit. And i'm not basing that opinion on just tonight either.<br />

[Snoogans]

I gotta say, TEXTBOOK tackle. Shoulder right into the hips, clean hit and wrap. No escaping that. Ernie Accorsi, were you watching?<br />

[Marc with a c]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Snoogans</strong> wrote:<br />but
you can come in before the seventh and get a save. Say your team is up
10-0 after 5, and you come in and get the last 12 outs, you get a save.
that i know, it even says so in your save rule. Pitches effectively for
at least 3 innings, that would be at least from the seventh<br />

<span class="post_edited">This message was edited by Snoogans on 6-13-06 @ 11:32 PM</span><p>&nbsp;</p><p>sorry i missed this for some reason.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p><p>snoogs.&nbsp;
the rule says you get the last 12 outs, which means the 7th, 8th and
9th (unless the game ends due to rain) you cant get a save if you pitch
more than 12 outs.</p><p>spoon</p><p>you said it happened this year, i hate to be that guy, but who did it, if i'm wrong i would really like to know.&nbsp;</p><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Bulldogcakes]

<h1><p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2493341" target="_self" title="If it's 'best for team,' Smoltz says he's open to trade talk">If it's 'best for team,' Smoltz says he's open to trade talk</a></p><p></p></h1><p>The 17-year veteran, who's played his entire career in Atlanta, said
his once-firm opinion against leaving the Braves changed this year. But
he said he still hopes to finish his career in Atlanta.</p><p>The
Braves, who began a three-game series with Toronto on Tuesday night,
have lost seven straight games and 17 of 20 to fall to last place in
the NL East. If the tumble in the standings changes the Braves' focus
in the trade market from buyers to sellers, Smoltz said, &quot;I'm open to
whatever is best for the team.&quot;</p><p>Smoltz downplayed his comments
that he originally made in an ESPN interview Sunday, saying he was only
answering &quot;the old if question, if they asked you to be traded.&quot;</p><p>&quot;I
said, 'Two years ago I wouldn't have thought about it,' &quot; he said. &quot;I'm
not an idiot. If it happens, I'd be open to it. That's it.&quot;</p><p>The Braves hold an $8 million option on Smoltz, 39, for the 2007 season, the same salary the right-hander is earning this year.</p><h1><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p></h1>

[HBox]

<p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2494491" target="_blank">Ozzie Guillen calls Jay Mariotti a fag.</a></p><p>Angry with a recent column by Mariotti critical of Guillen's handling
of recently demoted relief pitcher Sean Tracey and upset with Mariotti
with columns of the past, Guillen said to reporters when referring to
Mariotti before Tuesday's game with the Cardinals, &quot;What a piece of
[expletive] he is, [expletive] fag.&quot;</p><p><img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/clap.gif" />&nbsp; <img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/thumbup.gif" /><br /></p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2494491" target="_blank"></a>

[Snoogans]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>evedder</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>Snoogans</strong> wrote:<br />but
you can come in before the seventh and get a save. Say your team is up
10-0 after 5, and you come in and get the last 12 outs, you get a save.
that i know, it even says so in your save rule. Pitches effectively for
at least 3 innings, that would be at least from the seventh<br />

<span class="post_edited">This message was edited by Snoogans on 6-13-06 @ 11:32 PM</span><p> </p><p>sorry i missed this for some reason. </p><p>snoogs.
the rule says you get the last 12 outs, which means the 7th, 8th and
9th (unless the game ends due to rain) you cant get a save if you pitch
more than 12 outs.</p><p>spoon</p><p>you said it happened this year, i hate to be that guy, but who did it, if i'm wrong i would really like to know. </p><p> </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>12 outs would be 4 innings jackass, meaning 6th 7th 8th and 9th&nbsp;</p><blockquote />

[A.J.]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2494491" target="_blank">Ozzie Guillen calls Jay Mariotti a fag.</a></p><p>&nbsp;</p>Angry with a recent column by Mariotti critical of Guillen's handling of recently demoted relief pitcher Sean Tracey and upset with Mariotti with columns of the past, Guillen said to reporters when referring to Mariotti before Tuesday's game with the Cardinals, &quot;What a piece of [expletive] he is, [expletive] fag.&quot; <p>&nbsp;</p><p><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/clap.gif" border="0" />&nbsp; <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/thumbup.gif" border="0" /><br /></p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2494491" target="_blank"></a><p><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/Forum/82/Topic/50864/page/Ozzie_Guillen_Calls_Jay_Mariotti_a_Bad_Name.htm" target="_self">How did you miss this thread?</a></p>

[Fallon]

I've been waiting a long time for somebody to <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1VQtukn00c" target="_blank">try this</a>.<br />

[TheMojoPin]

As much as I hate the White Sox, the comebacks they had against the 'Stros in the last 2 games between them were incredible.

[Fallon]

<p>Spy Report:</p><p>THE NATIONAL LEAGUE EAST SUCKS!!!</p>

[TheMojoPin]

NEWSFLASH: With the exception of maybe the Mets, the entire National League sucks.

[Fallon]

AL Starters:
OF Manny
OF Vlad
OF Ichiro
3B A-Rod
SS Jeter
2B Loretta
1B Papi
C I-Rod

NL Starters:
OF Soriano
OF Beltran
OF Bay
3B Wright
SS Reyes
2B Utley
1B Pujols
C Lo Duca

[Fallon]

AL:
SP Buehrle (Starter)
SP Contreras
SP Halladay
SP Kazmir
SP Redman
SP Rogers
SP Santana
SP Zito
RP Papelbon
RP Ryan
RP Rivera
RP Jenks

WTF, no Schilling or Beckett???

[Fallon]

SP Arroyo (Starter)
SP Carpenter
SP Glavine
SP Pedro
SP Penny
SP Schmidt
SP Webb
SP Zambrano
RP Hoffman
RP Gordon
RP Fuentes
RP Turnbow

[Fallon]

<a target='blank' href=http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/events/all_star/y2006/roster_league.jsp>Full rosters</a>

[kdubya]

David Ortiz as at first base&nbsp;for the AL All Star team&nbsp;is a joke. He has played 1st maybe 6 times, straight BS.

[cougarjake13]

<strong>kdubya</strong> wrote:<br />David Ortiz as at first base&nbsp;for the AL All Star team&nbsp;is a joke. He has played 1st maybe 6 times, straight BS. <p>didnt the same thing happen a few years ago with raffy palmeiro????</p>

[BoondockSaint]

<strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>kdubya</strong> wrote:<br />David Ortiz as at first base&nbsp;for the AL All Star team&nbsp;is a joke. He has played 1st maybe 6 times, straight BS. <p>didnt the same thing happen a few years ago with raffy palmeiro????</p><p>I think you're thinking of when Palmeiro won the Gold Glove after playing like 25 games at first.</p>

[Fallon]

<strong>kdubya</strong> wrote:<br>David Ortiz as at first base for the AL All Star team is a joke. He has played 1st maybe 6 times, straight BS. <p></p>
So I guess David Ortiz shouldn't be in the all-star game?

[cougarjake13]

<strong>BoondockSaint</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>kdubya</strong> wrote:<br />David Ortiz as at first base&nbsp;for the AL All Star team&nbsp;is a joke. He has played 1st maybe 6 times, straight BS. <p>didnt the same thing happen a few years ago with raffy palmeiro????</p><p>I think you're thinking of when Palmeiro won the Gold Glove after playing like 25 games at first.</p><p>oh yeh i knew raffy was involved in something were he hardly played but won something</p><p>well i gyess since this years all star game is in an nl park, theres no dh, so ortiz had to go somewhere on the field, he wasnt not going to be on the ballot cause theres no dh</p>

[Bulldogcakes]

<p><a href="http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-spt-deluca06.html" target="_self" title="Pinella to manage Cubs?"><font size="5">Pinella to manage Cubs?</font></a></p><p></p><p>
<font size="2" face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Lou Piniella was at
Wrigley Field on Friday, poking his head in nooks and crannies visiting
teams never get to see. As part of his preparation for a national
broadcast on Fox, Piniella stopped by the creaky press box and looked
around in wonder.</font></p><p>
</p><p>
</p><p>
<font size="2" face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">''Oh, wow, this is ... this is ... old-school,'' Piniella said before moving on during his self-guided tour.</font></p><p>
<font size="2" face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">He was like an interested buyer nosing around an open house.</font></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I think it'd be a mistake for Lou. That corporate Tribune management doesn't agree with Lou's win now stlye. They still wont win, and he'll be miserable. </p><p>PLus he's going to manage the Yanks next year, anyway. &nbsp;</p><a href="http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-spt-deluca06.html" target="_self" title="Pinella to manage Cubs?"><font size="5" /></a>

[cougarjake13]

<p>every day eddie guardado is going to gvac's&nbsp;reds</p><p>he lost the closer job in seattle but will apparently get the chance to&nbsp;be the reds closer </p><p><a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5762486">http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5762486</a></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img height="100" src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetCougarJake13.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p>

[TheMojoPin]

<strong>Bulldogcakes</strong> wrote:<br /><p><a title="Pinella to manage Cubs?" href="http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-spt-deluca06.html" target="_self"><font size="5">Pinella to manage Cubs?</font></a></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">Lou Piniella was at Wrigley Field on Friday, poking his head in nooks and crannies visiting teams never get to see. As part of his preparation for a national broadcast on Fox, Piniella stopped by the creaky press box and looked around in wonder.</font></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">''Oh, wow, this is ... this is ... old-school,'' Piniella said before moving on during his self-guided tour.</font></p><p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">He was like an interested buyer nosing around an open house.</font></p><p>&nbsp;</p>&nbsp; <p>&nbsp;</p><p>I think it'd be a mistake for Lou. That corporate Tribune management doesn't agree with Lou's win now stlye. They still wont win, and he'll be miserable. </p><p>PLus he's going to manage the Yanks next year, anyway. &nbsp;</p><p><a title="Pinella to manage Cubs?" href="http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-spt-deluca06.html" target="_self"><font size="5"></font></a></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><font size="5"><font size="1">And you're OK with this?&nbsp; It baffles me how many Yankees fans/sports press seem to actually want the guy.&nbsp; It's a short list of which possible managers I think would have a good shot of being worse than Dusty Baker, and Lou might be at the top of it.&nbsp; I hope to the Cub-hating&nbsp;God above that&nbsp;the Yanks really do want him and it keeps him away from Chicago.&nbsp; Give me Razor Shines!</font></font>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 7-6-06 @ 9:16 PM</span>

[Bulldogcakes]

<p>Yes Mojo, I do want him. 11 years of Torre is enough. Torre's an excellent manager, but not much of a motivator and Pinella brings an &quot;us against the world&quot; mentality, like Billy Martin (his mentor) did. And its just smart to go from a players manager like Torre to a butt kicker like Pinella. Change styles. If you were going to hire another players mgr, you might as well keep Torre. The Yanks are always a win now team, and 2000 was 6 years ago. So its not like they haven't given him plenty of well deserved leeway. I just think its time for a new voice in the dugout. His contract runs out in 2007, but the Yanks rarely (if ever) want a lame duck manager, so they tend to make their moves before the final year. I think Pinella (who's a Stienbrenner buddy with the racehorses) took this year off anticipating just such a move. And it wouldn't surprise me if he and George have already discussed this at Hiyalea sometime last year. <br /> </p><p>When a player like A-Rod is slumping for amonth, and says Pinella straightened him out with one conversation, that tells me, and I'm sure Yankee brass (above Cashman) alot. <br /></p><p>Dont get me wrong, after 2-3 years of Pinella screaming and his 'seat of the pants' type moves, I'll be begging for a Torre diciple (Like Joe Girardi) again. But I think short term it could give an aging veteren team a kick in the pants. Lord knows they needed it last year, when they were floundering around .500 all year and had to break their asses just to make the playoffs (maybe to save Torre's job then) and by the time they got there, the tank was empty. Torre's teams have been prone to some collapses (Last April and May, Sept 1999, The 2003 Bosox playoff fiasco, etc) for which Torre has no answers, which drives me nuts. </p><p>If he did come in, I think many key coaches would stay in place, namely Guidry (if he wants to) and Mattingly if he wants to. So there would be some continuity. And they cant get rid of the bench coach Mazzili fast enough for me. Adds nothing to the team, and has a Brooklyn attitude problem. <br /></p>



<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 7-7-06 @ 7:01 PM</span>

[BoondockSaint]

<p>I am shocked!</p><p><a href="http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060708&content_id=1546755&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb" target="_blank">Cubs' Wood likely done for season.</a></p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[FezPaul]

<p><u><font color="#0000ff">Cubs' <strike>Wood likely</strike> done for season</font></u></p><p><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" color="#000000" size="2"><strong>Fixed.</strong></font></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by FezPaul on 7-8-06 @ 11:08 PM</span>

[Don Stugots]

<strong>Bulldogcakes</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Yes Mojo, I do want him. 11 years of Torre is enough. Torre's an excellent manager, but not much of a motivator and Pinella brings an &quot;us against the world&quot; mentality, like Billy Martin (his mentor) did. And its just smart to go from a players manager like Torre to a butt kicker like Pinella. Change styles. If you were going to hire another players mgr, you might as well keep Torre. The Yanks are always a win now team, and 2000 was 6 years ago. So its not like they haven't given him plenty of well deserved leeway. I just think its time for a new voice in the dugout. His contract runs out in 2007, but the Yanks rarely (if ever) want a lame duck manager, so they tend to make their moves before the final year. I think Pinella (who's a Stienbrenner buddy with the racehorses) took this year off anticipating just such a move. And it wouldn't surprise me if he and George have already discussed this at Hiyalea sometime last year. <br /></p><p>When a player like A-Rod is slumping for amonth, and says Pinella straightened him out with one conversation, that tells me, and I'm sure Yankee brass (above Cashman) alot. <br /></p><p>Dont get me wrong, after 2-3 years of Pinella screaming and his 'seat of the pants' type moves, I'll be begging for a Torre diciple (Like Joe Girardi) again. But I think short term it could give an aging veteren team a kick in the pants. Lord knows they needed it last year, when they were floundering around .500 all year and had to break their asses just to make the playoffs (maybe to save Torre's job then) and by the time they got there, the tank was empty. Torre's teams have been prone to some collapses (Last April and May, Sept 1999, The 2003 Bosox playoff fiasco, etc) for which Torre has no answers, which drives me nuts. </p><p>If he did come in, I think many key coaches would stay in place, namely Guidry (if he wants to) and Mattingly if he wants to. So there would be some continuity. And they cant get rid of the bench coach Mazzili fast enough for me. Adds nothing to the team, and has a <strong><font size="3">Brooklyn attitude problem</font></strong>. <br /></p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 7-7-06 @ 7:01 PM</span> <p>Oh, Bulldog. WTF?&nbsp; Brookyn attitude problem?&nbsp; i thought we were cool?&nbsp; </p>

[Bulldogcakes]

<p>Sorry, Stugots. I meant no offense, and I certainly didn't mean you. He is from Brooklyn and just has attitude. <br /> </p><p><br /></p>

[Don Stugots]

<strong>Bulldogcakes</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Sorry, Stugots. I meant no offense, and I certainly didn't mean you. He is from Brooklyn and just has attitude. <br /></p><p><br /></p><p>oh i know, but where would the fun be i didnt break chops.&nbsp; I met him as a kid at my little leagues baseball dinner.&nbsp; he was a douch.&nbsp; also, my friend frankie used to live 2 doors down from him in an apartment building and mazz would steal his newspaper and he would give the local pot dealer a hard time.&nbsp; allegedlly.&nbsp; this was back when he was on the mets.&nbsp; so, you are correct in your opinion of him.&nbsp; </p>

[TheMojoPin]

<strong>BoondockSaint</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I am shocked!</p><p><a href="http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060708&content_id=1546755&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb" target="_blank">Cubs' Wood likely done for season.</a> </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Who?</p>

[spoon]

<p>All-star break update:&nbsp; Mojo owes me $15 and counting!&nbsp;&nbsp;Too bad we didn't&nbsp;double this up at least.&nbsp;</p><p>Oh cubbies, you're so adorable!&nbsp; </p>

[spoon]

<p>Outside of the Mets, nothing else is a lock for the 2006 MLB season.&nbsp; So let's put it down on paper and pick our division winners and wild card teams as well as the major award winners in each league (cy and MVP).</p><p>NL East:&nbsp; NY Mets (Finally)</p><p>NL Central:&nbsp; St. Louis (got Pujols back and will right the ship/would love to see the Brew crew take it though)</p><p>NL West:&nbsp; Dodgers (Want to go Colorado or Arizona, but both teams just too young still.&nbsp; Next year.)</p><p>NL Wild Card:&nbsp; Houston edges out Colorado and SD in close race.&nbsp; Last hurah for the Stros!</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Al East:&nbsp; Boston&nbsp; (Too much ground to make up for my Jays on a team that hardly makes errors.&nbsp; Their pitching should hit more bumps in the road in the second half so the race will get tighter though.&nbsp; Too much youth in the rotation and closer is in uncharted innings territory for a new closer.&nbsp; Sure he pitched more as a starter, but not in this many games in the lessers leagues on his way to Boston.)&nbsp; </p><p>AL Central:&nbsp; Chicago&nbsp; (They just have a ton of pitching, power and will surely make a move or two as well.&nbsp; I think Detroit has a great team but will falter, hopefully bigtime, enough to allow Chicago to win this division by at least 3 games.)</p><p>AL West:&nbsp; The only thing I know for sure here is that the wild card has no chance coming from this division.&nbsp; I have to go with the Angels bc I think they really underperformed in the first half and are still right there.&nbsp; They have a great manager who has started to get them going and there are big rumors they're about to land Soriano for that much needed bat and lil Weaver should be back on track too.&nbsp; I just see them taking this division again with Zito probably getting moved from their biggest threat very soon too.&nbsp; Texas can hit (especially doubles), but their pitching is pretty shaky.&nbsp; A few pitching moves here could make them a true mover in this race for the first time in years, but not yet.&nbsp; </p><p>Al Wild Card:&nbsp; I believe this thing will get much tighter soon enough with the yanks, Blue Jays, and the Twins chasing down Detroit as they fall from the AL Central lead.&nbsp; Ultimately I hope my boys pull it off, but I just don't think anyone will be able to run them down if the Tigers steer clear of major injuries as they've managed to do all year so far.&nbsp; Meanwhile the other teams keep taking hits to their staffs and lineups.&nbsp; Sure the yanks can make the moves to clear up these problems, but the Twins and Jay can't.&nbsp; Yet did Cashman and George finally realize not to fleece the future for a quick exit in the playoffs?&nbsp; We'll see soon enough bc this yankee team is going nowhere, even if they fight and make the show.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>NL Cy:&nbsp; Webb (Arizona)&nbsp; I lost some faith as he lost confidence in June after his streak ended with faulty defense against the Mets, but he's bounced back lately against some tough teams in July.&nbsp; He should be back on track. <p>&nbsp;</p><p>NL MVP:&nbsp; I'd love for Wright or Berkman to win it but we all know a healthy Pujols walks away with this thing.&nbsp; </p><p>AL Cy:&nbsp; Halladay&nbsp; Liriano will lose his steam by August&nbsp;being so young and never pitching this much in his career.&nbsp; Santana will give Halladay a run for his money, but he and Liriano will split a lot of votes as well hurting both of them.&nbsp; And I just don't see the Cy going to the likes of Ryan and&nbsp;Papelbon no matter how well they pitch as closers if Rivera hasn't won the award in past years.&nbsp; Also, Halladay always has stamina and is just hitting his stride after coming back from the leg fracture and muscle strain.&nbsp; He's a smart pitcher who could have even more complete games if not for a solid Ryan taking over late in the eigth and ninth innings which wasn't an option the last few years.&nbsp; This will keep him even more fresh through the long hot summer allowing him to land his second Cy wh

[spoon]

<p>Quite possibly the most idiotic article ever on Fox Sports.&nbsp; </p><p><a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5776750">http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5776750</a></p><p>Why?!?</p>

[spoon]

<p>I have major problems with the ranking system on pitchers that doesn't include innings, complete games, shutouts and more.&nbsp; Take a look for yourself:</p><p><a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5779046">http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5779046</a></p>

[cougarjake13]

<p>according to espn sportscenter</p><p>bonds will be indicted, probably as soon as next week and his legal team is preparing a defense</p><p>nothing will be settled by season's end but if all goes bad for him he won't break aaron's record, unless he goes nucking futs the rest of this season</p>

[spoon]

<p>Then it's time for this baby!!&nbsp; &quot;ME WANT GIAMBI JUICE!!&quot;</p><p><img src="http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/northwest/series5/i/steroids_200.jpg" border="0" />&nbsp; <img src="http://www.alternativehealth.com.au/images/HGH.JPG" border="0" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[spoon]

<p>Here's something funny from a blog on Barroids.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>This Barry Bonds and steriods things has gone off the charts. For some reason, now that there are formal charges going on all around, people seem to be afraid to make the terribly obvious observation that the guy is juiced like an East German swimmer. Instead, reporters just want to needle him (and other bulked up apes like Jason Giambi and Gary Sheffield), asking him questions around the main topic without ever saying the obvious.</p><p>Well, I've had enough. Barry Bonds takes steriods and God knows what else, and he's been doing it for a while.</p><p>Let's take a look at the signs of steriod use:</p><p>1. The player is abnormally huge - check.</p><p>2. The player didn't used to be abnormally huge - check.</p><p>3. The player went from normal sized to abnormally huge in a small period of time - check.</p><p>4. The player's performance suddenly jumped up another level - check.</p><p>5. The player seems to actually get better at an age where he should be declining - check.</p><p>6. The players head has gotten so huge that his batting helmet sits on top like a chicklet on a pumpkin - check.</p><p>7. The player's trainer and &quot;nutrionist&quot; are indicted on federal charges of distributing steriods, including modern ones that can't yet be tested for - check.</p><p>I think you get the point. Let's just stop beating around the bush, saying things like &quot;I don't know if Barry is on 'roids or not&quot; (actual Jim Rome quote) and move on.</p><p>ps. We may actually be getting closer to this point - (<a href="http://http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1748786"><font color="#ff3333">Bonds Implicated</font></a>)</p>

[cougarjake13]

<p>lets say for arguments sake that bonds get convicted... will they let all his records stand ??? or erase them from the record books ???</p><p>i know rose's records and stats are still included but he got nailed after his playing days were over, yeh he was managing but bonds is still playing, not sure if it makes much difference but i would love it if they did erase his stats and records</p><p><img height="100" src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetCougarJake13.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p>

[spoon]

That's the question Bud doesn't want to address.&nbsp; MLB will go as long as they can without really taking this issue on seriously bc they too have skeletons in the closet.&nbsp; I'm sure if we really looked into this thing some big names would fall on both sides of the issue.&nbsp; They do in fact need a &quot;fall-guy&quot; and I guess they didn't use Rafy for this and perhaps Bonds should worry.&nbsp; Once outside forces get involved, MLB stops protecting the players as they did with Rafy.&nbsp; It could get ugly, but Bonds will fight this thing I'm sure.&nbsp;

[cougarjake13]

<p>well steve howe got caught 8 times for using drugs and his stats still count no??</p><p>i know its not the same talent and name wise but assuming we find out bonds did use, then they both would have used drugs of some kind</p><p><img height="100" src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetCougarJake13.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p>

[spoon]

<p>Just in case you tuckfards don't catch it in my Blue Jay Blog, check this shit out:</p><p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2520914">http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2520914</a></p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>spoon</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Just in case you tuckfards don't catch it in my Blue Jay Blog, check this shit out:</p><p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2520914">http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2520914</a></p><p>as rare as it seems to be it's amazing that it took 26 yrs to happen again</p><p><img height="100" src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetCougarJake13.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p>

[docgoblin]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><p>lets say for arguments sake that bonds get convicted... will they let all his records stand ??? or erase them from the record books ???</p><p>i know rose's records and stats are still included but he got nailed after his playing days were over, yeh he was managing but bonds is still playing, not sure if it makes much difference but i would love it if they did erase his stats and records</p><p><img width="300" height="100" border="0" src="http://home.comcast.net/%7Ebob80/RFnetCougarJake13.jpg" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>This has been addressed quite a bit by sports shows all over the place. The general consensus is that the stats can't be erased because game outcomes would have to change. Whole seasons would be affected. It can't possibly be done. All we can hope for is that he doesn't beat Aaron and Pujols or someone passes him for the single season record. Then, as time passes, Bonds will become a distant memory.&nbsp;</p>

[spoon]

Cubs look good tonight at least!

[kellermcgee21]

<p>my team, the cardinals, have won seven in a row and are looking good...too bad we are pitching jeff weaver twomorrow...i have a feeling he's going to get hammered and the streaks going to end</p><p>i'm really hoping the cardinals don't make a stupid trade and give up reyes or wainwright...those two have a bright future</p><p>and the cubs are done, i'm interested to see what kind of moves they make in the next 2 weeks</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>Now this is truly a majestic thrashing.</p><p>And in all seriousness, I am thanking the Mets.&nbsp; I hated the idea of them winning the series against the 1st place Mets after going into the ASG taking a series from the Brewers.&nbsp; Winning series is only going to prolong the moronic regime that has run this team right into the ground.&nbsp; I want Baker and his band of coaching cronies gone and I want this team sold SO goddamn bad right now.</p><p>Spoon, honestly, I hope I pay you as much as statistically possible at the end of the season if it means someone has wised up and made some real changes for this team.</p><p>Go Mets!</p>

[FezPaul]

<strong>spoon</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Just in case you tuckfards don't catch it in my Blue Jay Blog, check this shit out:</p><p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2520914">http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2520914</a></p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">You mean your posts on this board haven't been Blogs?</font></strong>&nbsp;&nbsp; <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/wink.gif" border="0" /></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by FezPaul on 7-16-06 @ 8:47 PM</span>

[TheMojoPin]

<strong>kellermcgee21</strong> wrote:<br /><p>my team, the cardinals, have won seven in a row and are looking good...too bad we are pitching jeff weaver twomorrow...i have a feeling he's going to get hammered and the streaks going to end</p><p>i'm really hoping the cardinals don't make a stupid trade and give up reyes or wainwright...those two have a bright future</p><p>and the cubs are done, i'm interested to see what kind of moves they make in the next 2 weeks</p><p>I admire the Cardinals.&nbsp; First, they have an 8 game losing streak...and it's the first time they've done that in almost a decade.&nbsp; Then they respond to it shortly afterwards by winning 7 straight, despite major injuries.&nbsp; THAT'S HOW YOU WIN BASEBALL GAMES.</p>

[Bulldogcakes]

<p>Oh, never mind.</p><p>I was going to post that I hope Mojo was out fishing or something, and not watching this carnage. But apparently he's enjoying it for some masochistic reason. . &nbsp;</p>

[kellermcgee21]

<strong>TheMojoPin</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;Winning series is only going to prolong the moronic regime that has run this team right into the ground.&nbsp; I want Baker and his band of coaching cronies gone and I want this team sold SO goddamn bad right now.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>the cubs definatly need a new owner....i honestly think if they got the right ownership, in time, they could crush the cardinals and win some titles.&nbsp;chicago is a much bigger market and wrigley field will always be a draw.&nbsp; i know the mark cuban idea was out there for a while and that would be a nightmare as a cards fan because i know the cubs would be signing a lot more big name free agents.&nbsp; good luck whatever happens mojo</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<strong>Bulldogcakes</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Oh, never mind.</p><p>I was going to post that I hope Mojo was out fishing or something, and not watching this carnage. But apparently he's enjoying it for some masochistic reason. . &nbsp;</p><p>It's a sickness, and I'm a weak, weak man.</p>

[spoon]

<strong>TheMojoPin</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Spoon, honestly, I hope I pay you as much as statistically possible at the end of the season if it means someone has wised up and made some real changes for this team.</p><p>Go Mets!</p><p>Man, I can't even have fun with this now.&nbsp; It's like your on death row and just don't care any longer.&nbsp; Yet I promise to put all the ones on my bed and roll around in them like Demi Moore.&nbsp; Yeeehaw!</p>

[HBox]

<p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2524415" target="_blank">Blue Jays DFA Shea Hillenbrand.</a></p><p><img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/ohmy.gif" />&nbsp;</p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2524415" target="_blank"></a>

[HBox]

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2525630" target="_blank">More on the Gibbons-Hillenbrand thing. Neither one of them look good at all.</a><br />

[kdubya]

I am going on record with this, the&nbsp;AL Cy Young winner will be&nbsp;a Minnesota Twin this year.

[TheMojoPin]

<p><a href="http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=407296" target="_blank">Carlos Zambrano is my god.</a></p><p><a href="http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=136664" target="_blank">In other news, punching AJ Pierzynski makes your bat super powered.</a></p><p>*Sigh*</p><p>Two more incredible career years, wasted....</p>

[TheMojoPin]

When you're in a car and you're the driver, you know what to do,&quot; Zambrano said. &quot;You go 100 mph in Venezuela -- you know what to do. The people in the passenger seat can be scared, but the guy who is driving the car is not scared because he's the guy. Same way on the mound -- I know that I have the ball and I know that I have confidence in my pitches. If I locate good pitches, they will not hit the ball. <p>&nbsp;</p><p>Preach on, Z.&nbsp; Preach on.&nbsp; The NL would have won the damn ASG if Joey Cora hadn't clobbered Zambrano's elbow with his Fungo bat during batting practice.</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 7-21-06 @ 12:20 AM</span>

[docgoblin]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>TheMojoPin</strong> wrote:<br />When you're in a car and you're the driver, you know what to do,&quot; Zambrano said. &quot;You go 100 mph in Venezuela -- you know what to do. The people in the passenger seat can be scared, but the guy who is driving the car is not scared because he's the guy. Same way on the mound -- I know that I have the ball and I know that I have confidence in my pitches. If I locate good pitches, they will not hit the ball. <p> </p><p>Preach on, Z. Preach on. The NL would have won the damn ASG if Joey Cora hadn't clobbered Zambrano's elbow with his Fungo bat during batting practice.</p>

<span class="post_edited">This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 7-21-06 @ 12:20 AM</span><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><strong>The NL would have won the ASG (and Beltran would have been MVP) if a 50 year old man wasn't used to close the game!</strong> <br /></p>

[Don Stugots]

<strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>TheMojoPin</strong> wrote:<br />When you're in a car and you're the driver, you know what to do,&quot; Zambrano said. &quot;You go 100 mph in Venezuela -- you know what to do. The people in the passenger seat can be scared, but the guy who is driving the car is not scared because he's the guy. Same way on the mound -- I know that I have the ball and I know that I have confidence in my pitches. If I locate good pitches, they will not hit the ball. <p>&nbsp;</p><p>Preach on, Z. Preach on. The NL would have won the damn ASG if Joey Cora hadn't clobbered Zambrano's elbow with his Fungo bat during batting practice.</p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 7-21-06 @ 12:20 AM</span> <p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><strong>The NL would have won the ASG (and Beltran would have been MVP) if a 50 year old man wasn't used to close the game!</strong> <br /></p><p>i dont know if that was a knock on rivera or a compliament.</p>

[kellermcgee21]

i think it was a knock on trevor hoffman

[docgoblin]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>kellermcgee21</strong> wrote:<br />i think it was a knock on trevor hoffman<p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Exactly!&nbsp;</p>

[Don Stugots]

<strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>kellermcgee21</strong> wrote:<br />i think it was a knock on trevor hoffman <p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Exactly!&nbsp;</p><p>sorry, my mistake.&nbsp; </p>

[Snoogans]

You mean the Active save leave Trevor Hoffman<br />

[TheMojoPin]

<p>Help me, Carlos Zambrano...you're my only hope...</p><p>How the fuck does Dusty Baker still have a job?</p>

[BoondockSaint]

Affirmative action?

[HBox]

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2527896" target="_blank">Don't get any ideas about Dontrelle Willis going anywhere.</a><br />

[Don Stugots]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2527896" target="_blank">Don't get any ideas about Dontrelle Willis going anywhere.</a><br /><p>i dont believe it.&nbsp; maybe he wont go anywhere this season but next year he will be wearing a different uniform.</p>

[Snoogans]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><a target="_blank" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2527896">Don't get any ideas about Dontrelle Willis going anywhere.</a><br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>that means you can expect at least 1 notable trade</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[cougarjake13]

<p>every time they do a firesale, they get ripped by the media and they proved everyone wrong once and they havent played that bad this year , they're in 3rd place and only 1 game behind the braves for 2nd, not bad for a 15 mil payroll</p><p>i think with the way they have beeen playing lately means they wont be trading guys like willis and cabrera, they may make little deals but i think they'll hang onto those 2 guys and with the way their young staff has pitched they might be decent again soon</p><p><img height="100" src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetCougarJake13.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p>

[HBox]

[color=navy]<font size="2">Here's quite a night for Cole Hamels of Philly: 5.1 IP, 16 outs, 12 Ks, 7 ERs.</font><br />

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by HBox on 7-24-06 @ 9:14 PM</span>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><font color="#000080"><font size="2">Here's quite a night for Cole Hamels of Philly: 5.1 IP, 16 outs, 12 Ks, 7 ERs.</font><br /><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by HBox on 7-24-06 @ 9:14 PM</span> <p>i was kinda hoping he'd break the record or at least come close but he seemed to completely unravel before our eyes</p><p><img height="100" src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetCougarJake13.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p></font>

[FezPaul]

<p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Ass-hat Chris Berman is calling the Cards/Cubs game on ESPN.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">I would listen to the XM feed, but the delay drives me crazy.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">But then again, so does Berman.&nbsp; <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/glurps.gif" border="0" /></font></strong></p>

[El Mudo]

Well, word was early on in the season the Yankees were interested in Willis, but Florida wanted Andy Phillips and Robinson Cano, and NY said no way

Here's the latest on Soriano, courtesy of Jason Stark, after today's deal with Carlos Lee to Texas

**The Carlos Lee trade couldn't possibly have worked out better for wheeling-dealing Nationals GM Jim Bowden, in his quest to move Soriano (and, if all his other 96 potential trades go down, become the Monty Hall of this weekend). Lee bungeed off the market before some clubs even knew he was on the market. He went to a team (Texas) that wasn't in on Soriano at all. And it didn't establish a precedent that fits the Soriano situation because it wasn't a prospect-based deal. So the coast is clear for Bowden to stick to his relentless quest to pry away three top-of-the-charts prospects for Soriano. Clubs in the Soriano loop say they're now hearing that the Astros and Twins have supplanted the Tigers and White Sox as the clubs bearing down on Soriano the hardest. The Tigers seem to have faded because they won't budge on dealing outfield stud Cameron Maybin, and the Nationals are believed to be wary of hot pitching prospect Humberto Sanchez's tender elbow. And the White Sox talks appear to be collapsing over Kenny Williams' refusal to include Brandon McCarthy or third-base prospect Josh Fields. So suddenly, it's the Twins and Astros who seem to be pounding hardest on Soriano's door. The Twins were believed to have preferred Lee. But Soriano is now the only impact bat available who doesn't carry money entanglements beyond this year. And the Twins are so deep in prospects, they can at least carry on a conversation about pretty much everybody out there. The Astros, meanwhile, have turned on the burners, trying to add any kind of offense. But teams that have been in contact with them say they've been balking at dealing two prospects Bowden would almost certainly want -- pitcher Jason Hirsh and outfielder Hunter Pence. So they're now apparently debating whether that's a price worth paying. The Angels, Dodgers, Yankees and several other teams show some evidence they still know Bowden's phone number. But with three days left till Deadline Day, nobody is on the verge of anything. So if you've enjoyed the last four months of the Soriano rumor-fest, you're in for some fun. We'd bet we'll still be spewing them Monday.**

[cougarjake13]

<p>first big trade</p><p>brewers trade of carlos lee and minor league of nelson cruz&nbsp;to the rangers for rp francisco cordero, of kevin mench, of lance nix, and minor league p julian cordero</p><p><a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5824354">carlos_lee_trade</a></p><p><img height="100" src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetCougarJake13.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p>

[HBox]

<p><span class="postbody">
Well, word was early on in the season the Yankees were interested in
Willis, but Florida wanted Andy Phillips and Robinson Cano, and NY said
no way</span></p><p>That can't be true. I heard that they wanted Cano, Wang, plus big time prospects.<br /></p>

[cougarjake13]

<p>just heard on espn that the dodgers traded danys baez to the braves for wilson betemit</p><p>they're 13 back of the mets but only 6 1/2 for the wild card, now with wickman and baez they;ll have a nice bullpen but will it be too late ??</p>

[El Mudo]

Latest on Soriano:

**After all that time we spent in the last week talking about Soriano's impending trade to the Tigers or White Sox, this just in: Neither of them is even talking to the Nationals about him anymore. Indications Saturday were that Nationals GM Jim Bowden was down to four teams -- the Astros, Angels, Twins and Dodgers. But there's no ideal match with any of those four. The Astros continue to balk at dealing their two most beloved prospects, pitcher Jason Hirsh and outfielder Hunter Pence, and Washington doesn't want the big-league group Houston has been dangling for Miguel Tejada (Adam Everett, Willy Taveras, Jason Lane, possibly even Brad Lidge). The Angels are more reluctant to give up the house jewelry vault for a rent-a-player than they would be for Tejada. The Twins actually don't mind taking on a rental -- but are never eager to overpay this time of year. And then there are the Dodgers, who have been telling clubs they only want to add players they can control beyond Halloween. So which of those teams seems likely to pay the triple-retail price Bowden has yet to waver on? Uh, none of the above. But multiple sources all over the sport now say it's 100 percent certain Soriano will be traded. So the only conclusion all of those teams have drawn is that the price is going to drop sometime before 3:59 Monday afternoon. And that's when showtime will arrive. The two best fits are clearly the Twins and Angels. But both GMs (Terry Ryan in Minnesota, Bill Stoneman in L.A.) are as far out on the conservativity scale as Bowden is on the hyperactivity meter. So it could be that whichever GM finds a way to mesh style, philosophy and talent with Bowden could be the team that pulls this off. Our hunch: the Angels -- just because they clearly seem to have a greater passion to pull off something big.**

EDIT: My God, I would go NUTS if we got that group from Houston for Soriano...holy cow...Taveras gives us a leadoff hitter (finally) and a guy with great speed, Everett and Lane would both be great pieces, and even though he's gone in the toilet lately, Lidge would help the bullpen

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by El Mudo on 7-29-06 @ 8:23 PM</span>

[green_bay_jake]

<strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><p>first big trade</p><p>brewers trade of carlos lee and minor league of nelson cruz&nbsp;to the rangers for rp francisco cordero, of kevin mench, of lance nix, and minor league p julian cordero</p><p><a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5824354">carlos_lee_trade</a> </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>this trade is the kiss of death for any hopes that the crew had of making the playoffs.&nbsp; i thought that with the new owner the brewers were done making trades that traded their best players for handfuls of mediocre.&nbsp; well, at least&nbsp;they were able to get tony graffanino.&nbsp; that's right, THE tony graffanino.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

[TheMojoPin]

Mudo, Taveras is awful.&nbsp; How do I know this?&nbsp; Because the Cubs are interested...save yourself while you can!&nbsp; He's Corey Patterson without the power or steals!

[Bama]

<p>Baseball is stupid and boring. </p><p>God I hate the Mets.</p>

[BoondockSaint]

<strong>Bama</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Baseball is stupid and boring. </p><p>God I hate the Mets.</p><p>Hey Bama could you had me that broom?&nbsp; There's some sweeping to be done.</p>