Death Metal Moe: Helping out Jesus?

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>I'm kinda in a quandary here.&nbsp; I am opposed to all religion, but I find myself helping my old church out more and more these days.</p><p>My mother, grandmother and until he died, my grandfather are all members of a local Church of the Nazarene here in the area.&nbsp; I stopped going there like 2 decades ago now because I just never felt it.&nbsp; Religion means nothing to me and I've actually begun to hate it, seeing how it brings the worst out in people the world over.&nbsp; I will NOT turn this into a religion rant but I just see is as society control and a way to make people feel better about death.</p><p>But I find myself helping out at that place over and over.&nbsp; When one of their toilets wasn't working, my father, a Muslim, and I, an Agnostic at best, are up there installing a new flapper valve.&nbsp; When the stone area in front of the place was coming up and the older people were in danger of tripping, my father and I were there cementing things down.&nbsp; My father plows their parking lot every snowstorm.&nbsp; He took a tree down with his chainsaw and trimmed the hedges.</p><p>Now I find myself installing shit in a computer for them ALL NIGHT.&nbsp; My father again got a free computer from the tech guy at his company for them.&nbsp; The company donated it and the tech guy was nice enough to install Windows freshly on the hard drive for me.&nbsp; I got it tonight and it's got an old copy of Windowns 2000 Pro in it and needs OODLES of updates.&nbsp; 2 Service Packs, IE 6 and about 26 other updates still needed.&nbsp; It also needed an exhaust fan, so I went to Staples and got a fan for it too.</p><p>What do I do?&nbsp; I do these things because I love my mother and grandmother, and justify it by thinking it makes them happy.&nbsp; There is NO ONE in that church that can do these things for them.&nbsp; They have&nbsp;a very aged congregation and until recently, it seemed their church was going to close.&nbsp; They got some new pastor and he's helping them out a lot.&nbsp; He's the one who asked if someone could get a computer to do their books on and he's the one who asked if they could get a website.&nbsp; I'll be setting that up I'm sure.</p><p>I do not agree with religions of any sort.&nbsp; What am I going to do here?&nbsp; I am an agent of Jesus without wanting to be one.&nbsp; But I know that there is a HUGE religious show down in the works here and I've just been putting it off.&nbsp; I mean, this could be a family splitting religious argument here.</p><p>Any advice?</p>

[cupcakelove]

I don't know the entire situation, but it looks like you're just trying to help out your parents and make life easier for them.&nbsp; I don't see where the conflict is, maybe I'm missing something.&nbsp;&nbsp; If somebody in the church has problem with your stance on religon, then it is their problem and they should be the ones to deal with it.&nbsp; I would just keep helping out your parents and not let what other people think distract you from that.<br />

[WhistlePig]

Think of it having nothing to do with religion. You're helping some people out, and
they happen to be part of a church. You're doing a good deed, and should feel good
about it. Who's going to have a showdown with you?

[Hottub]

<p>Moe, what you are doing at the church is more of a community thing, than a Jesus thing. You are putting in some time there to help the faithful have a better experience. And Kudos for that. I imagine you can get your own gratification by a job well done.</p><p>I, myself, have my own quandary. My oldest boy just received his first Penance last week. After listening to Fr. Jose, I elected to have my Penance. I confessed all of my venial sins, was given absolution (Act of Contrition, 3 Our Fathers, 3 Hail Mary's) and welcomed back to the Roman Catholic Church with open arms!</p><p>What I wanted to confess was the several hundred MORTAL sins I have committed over the past 10 years. I may have to go one Saturday afternoon and see if I can be forgiven.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>My <strong>MORTAL</strong> sin?</p><p>Having intimacy with my <strong>wife </strong>(not hooker, not neighbor's wife) <strong>MY WIFE!!</strong> while using Birth Control</p><p>This is a mortal sin, and I am damned to hell for doing this.</p><p>This is why I am currently not religious.</p>

[FUNKMAN]

<p>you just need to understand that religion does do some good for some people. there are good people who have a deep commitment to their faith and are not 'radicals'...</p><p>there are many religious people who help one another because they feel it is morally right to do so and they expect nothing in return...</p><p>we make somewhat 'arrogant' statements about religion when we see the actions of extremists and radicals, child moletsers, &nbsp;but we shouldn't include everyone&nbsp;within that faith. it really makes you no better than anyone esle...</p><p>just like racism, you should not place blame on a whole race due to the actions of a few</p>

[Hottub]

Funk, that was brilliant!

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>I appreciate everyone's responses.&nbsp; You all took time in them and thought them out.</p><p>My problem is that I feel so strongly against religion that helping one out is really a contradiction in my life.&nbsp; I don't want to help perpetuate a lie like religion.</p><p>Am I thinking too much about this?&nbsp; I don't think I am but I've been very wrong in the past.</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Death Metal Moe on 2-10-06 @ 10:23 PM</span>

[FUNKMAN]

<strong>Hottub</strong> wrote:<br />Funk, that was brilliant! <p>thanks Hottub! over 14,500 posts and i finally got one out...</p><p>Peace!</p>

[Hottub]

<p>Moe, you are in a unique situation. One that most of us would never get the chance to glimpse at. Your Mom is Christian, and your Dad is Muslim. Even if not to embrace either one, to have the chance to see the differences, and similarities in each must be amazing!</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>PS.&nbsp; Think of your Church work as Community Service, and you will be OK!!</p>

[Sheeplovr]

I thought this was going to be about yard work<br />

[WhistlePig]

I think you are thinking about it too much. Think about why you're doing it--
to make your mom and grandma happy. That's why I got married in the catholic
church--to make my grandma and husband's parents happy. I'm catholic, but
don't agree with half the crap the religion says (see hottub's comments--he hits
the nail on the head) and don't practice. But all the pre-marital counseling, the
confessions etc. was worth it to see my grandma smiling in the front row.

[torker]

<p>Ask yourself: WWJD?</p><p><img height="97" src="http://www.jaycaddle.com/other/jerry/jerry.jpg" width="122" border="0" /></p><p>What would Jerry do?</p>

[sr71blackbird]

Moe, I think it means you are a good person.&nbsp; And probably the reason you are a good person is because of who brought you up and how and what beliefs (right and wrong) were important to those who doing the bringing up.&nbsp; I have a feeling that the religion was influential in the development of those beliefs.&nbsp; So, even if you yourself do not embrace religion, the goodness aspect of it did indeed find a way into your heart, and is compelling you to do the good things.

[newport king]

<p>My <strong>MORTAL</strong> sin?</p><p>Having intimacy with my <strong>wife </strong>(not hooker, not neighbor's wife) <strong>MY WIFE!!</strong> while using Birth Control</p><p>This is a mortal sin, and I am damned to hell for doing this.</p><p>This is why I am currently not religious.</p><p>does pulling out apply here as well?</p><p>as far as moe goes...REPENT!! SPAWN OF ISLAM!!! REPENT NOW!!!! nah, i don't give a shit, if you dont want to do it, dont do it. just whatever you do, change your picture, it fucking creeps me out.</p>

[landarch]

I think good deeds are good deeds, and people are people.&nbsp; Belonging to a church doesn't make them bad people, and the aged population there will certainly appreciate all the help.&nbsp; My parents go to a Nazarene church in Mississippi, and I don't and never have.&nbsp; I just made sure to draw that gentle&nbsp;line in the sand that stated a clear boundary of my interest (read: none.).&nbsp; If I&nbsp;lived there now and he or any one in my family needed a hand around there, I would help in a minute because it's my pops.&nbsp; Will I come in on Sunday and sit for an hour or two? &nbsp;no.&nbsp; Will I refrain from political and&nbsp;religious conversations with my family?&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; &nbsp;It's kept us all happy for years.&nbsp; There's an old country song about the three things you don't discuss with family.&nbsp; That's two of them, and I can't remember the third one.&nbsp; Wish I could.&nbsp; Well, good luck to you anyway.&nbsp; At the very least, you are spending quality&nbsp;time with your dad, who won't always be around, you know, in your old age.

[FUNKMAN]

<p>just remember Moe,</p><p>guilty feet have got no rhythm</p>

[mdr55]

<p>You're screwed. Religion by association.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Walk away and just say no.&nbsp;</p>

[bobrobot]

<p><strong><font color="#000099">Is it religion that's a lie, or are there a lotta religious leaders who are liars and manipulators? It seems to me that helping someone in need, without prejudice or expectation, simply for the purpose of being helpful, is one of the most beautiful things one human being&nbsp;can do for another. Love yer neighbor...</font></strong></p><p><img height="412" src="http://www.artinstituteshop.org/content/images/87233.jpg" width="400" border="0" /></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by bobogolem on 2-11-06 @ 12:32 AM</span>

[monsterone]

<a name="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/Forum/75/Topic/48695/page/Death_Metal_Moe__Helping_out_Jesus_">if i may quote scripture for a moment<br />
</a>

[Gvac]

Like others have said, you're not helping the religion or the church but rather the members of the congregation whom you care about and love.

And think about this: if your car broke down one night in the middle of nowhere and a preacher pulled up offering to help, would you refuse it? I'd bet that even if he was as anti death metal as you are anti religion he'd still be willing to help and you'd gladly accept.

Also try to remember that "things" are not intrinsically good or evil. A gun, a knife, a baseball bat; these can't be judged to be either good or bad. That comes from their use or misuse. Same with religion.

Peace.

[Mike Teacher]

<p>Moe, you're a good man, and good men do the right thing. There is no conflict in doing what is right, in fact, that which is right, that which is true, has no question. </p><p>And 1000 apologies for possible de-railment but...</p><p>=</p><p>Also try to remember that &quot;things&quot; are not intrinsically good or evil. A gun, a knife, a baseball bat; these can't be judged to be either good or bad. That comes from their use or misuse. Same with religion. </p><p>=</p><p>This is awesome stuff, Gvac, and to take it the next step, as have many philosophers/criminologists, psychologists, wel, just about everyone who studies the human condition.</p><p>The&nbsp;Q is, for anyone: Can we exhange 'People' for 'things' in the above statement?</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>torker</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Ask yourself: WWJD?</p><p><img height="97" src="http://www.jaycaddle.com/other/jerry/jerry.jpg" width="122" border="0" /></p><p>What would Jerry do?</p><p>He'd probably start talking about how he helped ghost write the Bible when Aliens took him back in time.&nbsp; How does that help me?!</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>I appreciate everyone's input on this.&nbsp; I know I'm going to get pussies on the board who think I did this to get compliments or some shit, fuck 'em.&nbsp; I thank everyone for their kind words but that was not my intention.&nbsp; Believe me or don't.</p><p>I don't know, I am actually very nice to most people.&nbsp; I did indeed take a lot of things from my religious upbringing as far as treating people as I would like to be treated.&nbsp; I don't deny that.&nbsp; I just see religion as a cancer on the world and if by my actions I help get more people into it I feel as though I have helped in their enslavement to religion.&nbsp; I don't like that feeling.&nbsp; I of course like the feeling of my mother and grandmother being greatful to me for helping.&nbsp; And I grew up in that church and know many of the people.&nbsp; They're all good people and I don't mind helping them either.&nbsp; Like I said, they're getting too old to help themselves and there's not a lot of people who are willing to come help them.&nbsp; From hearing my mother and grandmother talk at the dinner table, it seems if they don't do something or they don't ask us to do something it just doesn't get done in that place.</p><p>Well, the computer is pretty much as ready as it's going to be.&nbsp; I was running the last updates last night.&nbsp; I fell asleep in front of the fucking thing, got up at 4 and ran a Defrag.&nbsp; It's an older comp with only 4 Gigs of HD space, but it will do what they need.</p><p>I'm still up in the air on this one.</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>Hottub</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Moe, you are in a unique situation. One that most of us would never get the chance to glimpse at. Your Mom is Christian, and your Dad is Muslim. Even if not to embrace either one, to have the chance to see the differences, and similarities in each must be amazing!</p><p>Just couldn't let this one go.&nbsp; Yea Hottub, it's really amazing.....not.&nbsp; I'm a white guy named Mohamed.&nbsp; Certian white folks look at me funny for awhile until they get to know me, and the Muslims probably want me dead for having the name but not being Muslim.&nbsp; One of the great upsides is being exposed to all that food and having family in Syria, so I've been there to visit a few times in my life.&nbsp; Let me tell you, I thought the trips I've taken to Europe made me appreciate the US.&nbsp; There is NOTHING like a trip to a country like that with family living very basic lifestyles that will make you appreciate the US of A.&nbsp; After about the 2nds week I would have shot someone in the face just for the chance to stand on a DMV line.&nbsp; My CDs and video games got me by many a day, along with a few cool trips to very old historical places in the country, and food.</p>

[Justice4all]

<p> Death Metal Moe: Helping out Jesus?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>He never helped me yet...where was he when all those flat tires needed changing!</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>Justice4all</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p>Death Metal Moe: Helping out Jesus? <p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>He never helped me yet...where was he when all those flat tires needed changing!</p><p>Laughing and pointing?&nbsp; </p>

[spoon]

<strong>Gvac</strong> wrote:<br />Also try to remember that &quot;things&quot; are not intrinsically good or evil. A gun, a knife, a baseball bat; these can't be judged to be either good or bad. That comes from their use or misuse. Same with religion. Peace. <p>Like Mike stated, Gvac hits home a great point right here.&nbsp; However, it seems that even after all this time the human race still finds a way to misuse religion a lot more than it does for good.&nbsp; In fact, as a whole we seem to be regressing.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p><p>As for your quandry Moe,&nbsp;most of the people here&nbsp;made great points.&nbsp;&nbsp;You're doing something for those who need help and aren't misusing their religion.&nbsp; If however&nbsp;the church did follow some crazy rules that impacted other lives then I'd advise you to have that confrontation.&nbsp; But for now,&nbsp;use this as a bridge in your relationship with the people you love.&nbsp; </p>

[Billy Staples]

h

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>Well I dropped the thing off, set it up and ran over what I put in it with the church's pastor.&nbsp; I have to get a copy of Microsoft Powerpoint from somewhere, a web editing program like Frontpage, and I'll probably be helping them set up a website.&nbsp; </p><p>I came to the conclusion that I was just thinking way too much about all this and I get a little too self important from time to time.&nbsp; I was just helping some people out who needed a computer.&nbsp; I grew up going to that church so I know that the people who go to it are decent people.&nbsp; That's the end of it.</p><p>Thanks to everyone <u>but Billy Staples<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/wink.gif" border="0" /></u> for actually being very kind with their words and advice.&nbsp; </p>

[Billy Staples]

<p>Thanks to everyone <u>but Billy Staples<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/wink.gif" border="0" /></u> </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Repent!!!&nbsp; <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/innocent.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Death Metal Moe]

Who loves ya Staples?

[Billy Staples]

h

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>Just a quick update because it's on my mind.</p><p>Put an extra sound card I had lying around&nbsp;from a junk comp in the Church comp tonight and installed Microsoft Office 2000 with Powerpoint, Excel, Outlook and a newer version of Word.</p><p>In the end I'm happy to help out.&nbsp; Helping people out is one of the things that brings me great joy in life actually, I was just hung up on the religious end for no real reason.&nbsp; It made my grandmother and mother very happy and their pastor Chuck was very nice and appreciated it too.&nbsp; I find it very easy to talk to people but I wasn't sure if he would put some sort of &quot;sinner&quot; fucking trip on me.&nbsp; He was actually very nice and a drummer so I ended up talking to him for awhile about drums.&nbsp; I was impressed he didn't flinch when I told him I played Death Metal in UNHALLOWED.</p><p>Next steps are:</p><ol><li><div>Install New Printer I suggested they purchase</div></li><li><div>Install DSL once they get a phone line in the room the comp is in</div></li><li><div>Get Domain Name and Server</div></li><li><div>Set up basic website for them</div></li><li><div>HOPE this thing will take a copy of Microsoft Frontpage</div></li></ol><p>So I'm sure I'll be up there in the next few weeks until they're completely set up.&nbsp; It's cool though.&nbsp; If I'm staying home for the night I don't mind going up there for an hour.&nbsp; It's 5 minutes from my house.</p>

[HBox]

Nice. Glad to hear it. I tried to put together a reply but I couldn't pull my thoughts together into any coherence. It's much easier to hear you do what I thought was the right thing and give you a pat on the back and a hearty congratulations.<br />

[SatCam]

HOPE this thing will take a copy of Microsoft Frontpage
Frontpage is the devil's way of infultrating church computers

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>OK, quick update again.</p><p>I'm starting to get a little annoyed with these people.&nbsp; It seems NOTHING gets done unless I do it or my mother and grandmother ask me to do it.</p><p>Case in point:&nbsp;They need a printer for printing financial reports out.&nbsp; I let them know there's a Lexmark printer at Wal Mart that is $30 bucks.&nbsp; It's not the best of course, but they're not going to print anything big there, just black text.&nbsp; That was over a month ago.</p><p>If you want something done right, you send Moe.&nbsp; I have to go get the fucking thing, and put it up in the church.&nbsp; I installed&nbsp;the software, printed a test page and we're GO.</p><p>I don't mind helping, but a basic thing like &quot;Go get a cheap printer&quot; shouldn't be left for weeks.</p>

[mendyweiss]

<img height="246" src="http://www.stgeorge-newportrichey.org/LiturgicalCorner/Fr._Panayiotis.jpg" width="149" border="0" />Don't you see what is happening? You are being groomed for a church elder and leader!( here you are in 20 years) RUN!!!

[mdr55]

<img width="444" height="157" border="0" src="http://s146481175.onlinehome.us/images/header-donandmike.png" /><br />

[suggums]

<p>death metal graham</p><p><img width="284" height="356" border="0" src="http://www.nndb.com/people/561/000022495/billy-graham-70.jpg" />&nbsp;</p><p>he really does look a bit fiendish here&nbsp;</p>