Pro Football Hall of Fame Class 2006 [Archive]

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Justice4all

02-02-2006, 07:54 PM

Well here are the final 15 inductees.They can only choose 6 maximum. So who would you choose? I would say this is a pretty impressive crop of players this year. Listed alphabetically, the 15 finalists with their positions, teams, and years follow: <img hspace="2" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/news-bullet.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=254">Troy Aikman</a> - Quarterback - 1989-2000 Dallas Cowboys <img hspace="2" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/news-bullet.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=239">Harry Carson</a> - Linebacker - 1976-1988 New York Giants <img hspace="2" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/news-bullet.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=243">L.C. Greenwood</a> - Defensive End - 1969-1981 Pittsburgh Steelers <img hspace="2" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/news-bullet.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=244">Russ Grimm</a> - Guard - 1981-1991 Washington Redskins <img hspace="2" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/news-bullet.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=245">Claude Humphrey</a> - Defensive End - 1968-1978 Atlanta Falcons, 1979-1981 Philadelphia Eagles (injured reserve - 1975) <img hspace="2" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/news-bullet.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=246">Michael Irvin</a> - Wide Receiver - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys <img hspace="2" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/news-bullet.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=247">Bob Kuechenberg</a> - Guard - 1970-1984 Miami Dolphins (injured reserve - 1984) <img hspace="2" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/news-bullet.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=255">John Madden</a> - Coach - 1969-1978 Oakland Raiders <img hspace="2" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/news-bullet.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=248">Art Monk</a> - Wide Receiver - 1980-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 New York Jets, 1995 Philadelphia Eagles <img hspace="2" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/news-bullet.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=256">Warren Moon</a> - Quarterback - 1984-1993 Houston Oilers, 1994-1996 Minnesota Vikings, 1997-1998 Seattle Seahawks, 1999-2000 Kansas City Chiefs <img hspace="2" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/news-bullet.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=249">Derrick Thomas</a> - Linebacker - 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs <img hspace="2" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/news-bullet.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=253">Thurman Thomas</a> - Running Back - 1988-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Miami Dolphins <img hspace="2" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/news-bullet.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=257">Reggie White</a> - Defensive End/Defensive Tackle - 1985-1992 Philadelphia Eagles, 1993-1998 Green Bay Packers, 2000 Carolina Panthers <img hspace="2" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/news-bullet.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=258">Rayfield Wright</a> - Tackle - 1967-1979 Dallas Cowboys <img hspace="2" src="http://www.ronfez.net/images/news-bullet.gif" border="0" /> <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=259">Gary Zimmerman</a> - Tackle - 1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-1997 Denver Broncos  Wow...alot of tough choices.My heart goes with Carson. He was a true leader on the field.Thurman Thomas was an amazing threat in the backfield and damn could he block too!John Madden should get his nod. He won ONE big game but was still a good coach.Warren Moon put up hall of fame numbers DESPITE the fact that he came into the league

Crippler

02-02-2006, 08:24 PM

Good thing I already know what most of these fellas look like, because...<img height="460" src="http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/5541721/128088195.jpg" width="400" border="0" />...oh yeah, and there's some really hard decisions to make as to who doesn't make the cut.  As much as I would like to see two people in particular left out (the ones that wore stars on their helmets) I think they are two of the locks.  Beyond that, I don't know. <img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=spe5150" border="0" />

This message was edited by Crippler on 2-3-06 @ 12:26 AM

BoondockSaint

02-02-2006, 08:30 PM

CArson should have been in 10 years ago, at least.

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Greggie44

02-02-2006, 09:07 PM

White, Aikman, Monk, Irvin, Thurman Thomas, and Carson. Hold Grimm over till next year.

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curtoid

02-03-2006, 06:58 AM

<a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=254">Troy Aikman</a> - Quarterback - 1989-2000 Dallas Cowboys  <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=243">L.C. Greenwood</a> - Defensive End - 1969-1981 Pittsburgh Steelers  <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=244">Russ Grimm</a> - Guard - 1981-1991 Washington Redskins  <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=246">Michael Irvin</a> - Wide Receiver - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys  <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=255">John Madden</a> - Coach - 1969-1978 Oakland Raiders  <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/hof/member.jsp?player_id=248">Art Monk</a> - Wide Receiver - 1980-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 New York Jets, 1995 Philadelphia Eagles

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Bama

02-03-2006, 07:28 AM

Aikman, White, the two Thomas's and two guys I don't care about. 

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El Mudo

02-03-2006, 09:50 AM

Art Monk shoulda been in the HOF years ago....but he's not thanks to douchebags like Peter King...

The guy retired with more catches than anyone....what the hell else is he supposed to do? Especially in an offense that really wasn't into pitching and catching....

It's an absolute joke that Lynn Swann made the HOF despite not being the the TOP FIFTY...(50) of ANY ALL-TIME RECIEVING CATEGORY....

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BoondockSaint

02-04-2006, 10:13 AM

So it's :Aikman, Carson, Madden, Moon, White, Wright.  It's about time Carson got in.  Didn't he say he wouldn't show up for the ceremony if he got in now?<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=boondocksaint" border="0" /> 

This message was edited by BoondockSaint on 2-4-06 @ 2:56 PM

FUNKMAN

02-04-2006, 10:38 AM

Aikman / White / Moon / Greenwood / Carson / T Thomas

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Mr.Pants

02-04-2006, 10:51 AM

Monk's been screwed in the past. I think he's going to get it again.

Bama

02-04-2006, 11:15 AM

Aikman, White, Moon, Carson, Madden and Wright got in. <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2318924" target="_blank" title="hof">HOF voting </a>

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El Mudo

02-04-2006, 04:45 PM

A travesty of a sham of a mockery James Arthur Monk did not get in....

Fuck You Peter King...

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Bulldogcakes

02-04-2006, 06:00 PM

I agree with King 100%. Art Monk was never even one of the best recievers in the league at the peak of his career. He just hung around long enough that he has some #'s that look good, until you divde them by how many years he played. Then he looks like what he was. A average player who was lucky enough to stay healthy and play a long time. Plus he wasn't even the most important part of his team's ofensive strategy (the old Redskin teams ran the ball down your throat) like a Jerry Rice or Irvin. Riggins and the offensive line were the HOFers from the old Redskin teams. Take Monk off the team and replace him with a servicable WR and you win just as many games. I dont like "compilers" for the HOF in any sport. I think its a joke Phil Niekro is in the Baseball HOF. Not only did he use an illegal pitch for half his career, he won 318 pitching 23 years, he also lost 278. His average season is 14-12. Not HOF material. 

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This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 2-4-06 @ 10:03 PM

HBox

02-04-2006, 06:35 PM

Sportswriters should not be voting for HOF nominees in any sport. This might not be applicable in Monk's case, but I think that sportswriters consistently and as a whole show themselves to be the least objective of all journalists. There are so many ways they are constantly prejudiced. Local sportswriters favoring local athletes, writers taking it easy on athletes who are nice to them, writers being overly hard on athletes who are rude or make their life hard (which can work in different ways; like Pete Sampras who was "boring"), writers having vendettas against specific teams, shock writers who act differently or say shocking things just to get readers, writers who let outside circumstances (legal problems, excessive celebration) affect their judgement of on-field value. Just about any writer you read will fall prey to something.

I think this kind of voting should be left to former players, coaches and team executives; people who played the game or were part of it. This brings problems of it own, and certainly won't eliminate biases, but it just seems a shitload more legitimate than how it is currently handled.

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El Mudo

02-04-2006, 07:15 PM

I agree with King 100%. Art Monk was never even one of the best recievers in the league at the peak of his career. He just hung around long enough that he has some #'s that look good, until you divde them by how many years he played. Then he looks like what he was. A average player who was lucky enough to stay healthy and play a long time. Plus he wasn't even the most important part of his team's ofensive strategy (the old Redskin teams ran the ball down your throat) like a Jerry Rice or Irvin. Riggins and the offensive line were the HOFers from the old Redskin teams. Take Monk off the team and replace him with a servicable WR and you win just as many games.

I dont like "compilers" for the HOF in any sport. I think its a joke Phil Niekro is in the Baseball HOF. Not only did he use an illegal pitch for half his career, he won 318 pitching 23 years, he also lost 278. His average season is 14-12. Not HOF material.

What is wrong with "compilers"? If you were a great player that stayed great for many years, why shouldn't you get in the HOF? Longevity has to count somewhere in the equation....you don't stick around in pro sports as a marginal player for 15 years...Its essentially the "Rafael Palmiero" argument (before it was found out he was on the gas)

You also point out Irvin and Rice, but in no way were they the sole focal point of their offenses....The teams they played on had many other weapons besides them...(see Emmitt Smith, Roger Craig, etc.)....You're criticizing Monk for not being the sole focal point of the 'Skins offense, and at the same time naming two guys who also were not the sole focal point of their respective offenses

And besides, you still can't argue the fact that the guy retired WITH MORE CATCHES THAN ANYONE....what else do you expect him to do?

And if you compare him to the people ALREADY in the Hall of Fame, like the aforementioned Lynn Swann or James Lofton, he deserves to be in there....

To bottom line Monk: He had guys like Mark Rypien, Jay Schroeder, and Joe Theisman throwing him the ball...not exactly names reminiscent of Montana, Aikman, Bradshaw, and Kelly

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Mr.Pants

02-04-2006, 09:59 PM

I grew up a St. Louis Cardinal football fan, and that son of a bitch Monk put a dagger in our playoff chances year after year. He was indeed a badass in his prime.

Bulldogcakes

02-05-2006, 04:51 AM

quote:What is wrong with "compilers"? If you were a great player that stayed great for many years, why shouldn't you get in the HOF? Longevity has to count somewhere in the equation. The problem with compilers is they weren't great, they were just good players for a long period of time. The HOF should be for great players, not OK ones. Now someone like Hank Aaron is great because while he never hit 50 HR's, he hit 30-40 for most of his career. To hit 30-40 for ten years is not HOF material, but to do it for 15-20 years is. So longevity counts, but it has to be at a high level. quote:You also point out Irvin and Rice, but in no way were they the sole focal point of their offenses....The teams they played on had many other weapons besides them...(see Emmitt Smith, Roger Craig, etc.)....You're criticizing Monk for not being the sole focal point of the 'Skins offense, and at the same time naming two guys who also were not the sole focal point of their respective offenses

 Re-read my post. I never said "sole focal point" Of course every offense has many weapons. But Art Monk was never an important one to his team like Irvin and Rice were to theirs (Rice was practically the 49's entire offense in 95) and its not even arguable. Again, you could've replaced Monk with 10 other guys in the league and have won just as many games. quote:And besides, you still can't argue the fact that the guy retired WITH MORE CATCHES THAN ANYONE....what else do you expect him to do?

And if you compare him to the people ALREADY in the Hall of Fame, like the aforementioned Lynn Swann or James Lofton, he deserves to be in there....

To bottom line Monk: He had guys like Mark Rypien, Jay Schroeder, and Joe Theisman throwing him the ball...not exactly names reminiscent of Montana, Aikman, Bradshaw, and Kelly Oh yes I can. For starters you're dead wrong. He has 940 career receptions. Jerry Rice has 1549, and had 942 the day Monk retired. Bogus stat. He has 68 CAREER TD catches, the ones that matter most. He played 15 years, thats about 4 TD's PER SEASON. Again, he was incidental to his teams success. He only broke a thousand yards 5 times in his 15 year career, and even when he did it was just barely. Michael Irvin did it 7 of the 9 full seasons he played. As far as Swan and Lofton go, thats exactly why I think it should be harder to get into the HOF. You dont want it to become a lowest common denominator where "this guy got in so now these 3 should too" and the HOF becomes meaningless. And if you want to bring up the QB's, Gibbs played "max protect" so he had all day to get open, which any monkey could do. 

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This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 2-5-06 @ 10:35 AM

El Mudo

02-05-2006, 07:36 AM

The problem with compilers is they weren't great, they were just good players for a long period of time. The HOF should be for great players, not OK ones. Now someone like Hank Aaron is great because while he never hit 50 HR's, he hit 30-40 for most of his career. To hit 30-40 for ten years is not HOF material, but to do it for 15-20 years is. So longevity counts, but it has to be at a high level.

I don't buy this..if you're a "good" player for a long period of time, you're a HOFer..like I said before, it's the Raffy argument..Raffy hung around long enough to hit as many HR's as he did and was probably going to go in the HOF anyway..The fact that Monk hung around as long as he did and put up the numbers that he did, while not necessarily at a "high" level, he's still HOF worthy because of the other people that are already in the HOF.

You can't argue the fact he should be in there because Swann and Lofton are.Monk was definitely better than both.

And another point on longevity..the NFL is such a game of attrition, (where the average RB only lasts 2.5 years for instance), that it has to figure PROMINENTLY in any HOF case.

Re-read my post. I never said "sole focal point" Of course every offense has many weapons. But Art Monk was never an important one to his team like Irvin and Rice were to theirs (Rice was practically the 49's entire offense in 95) and its not even arguable. Again, you could've replaced Monk with 10 other guys in the league and have won just as many games.

You implied it:

Plus he wasn't even the most important part of his team's ofensive strategy (the old Redskin teams ran the ball down your throat) like a Jerry Rice or Irvin.

Again, you could've replaced Monk with 10 other guys in the league and have won just as many games.

You can't just plug guys into an offense and have it work...See the last couple of years of the Joe Gibbs offense as an example (Taylor Jacobs, James Thrash)

Too many coaches try to adapt their personnel to their systems instead of adapting their systems to their personnel...Gibbs was great at the latter (his philosophy derives from the Air Coryell offense)...Why should that be held against Monk?

Oh yes I can. For starters you're dead wrong. He has 940 career receptions. Jerry Rice has 1549, and had 942 the day Monk retired. Bogus stat. He has 68 CAREER TD catches, the ones that matter most. He played 15 years, thats about 4 TD's PER SEASON. Again, he was incidental to his teams success. He only broke a thousand yards 5 times in his 15 year career, and even when he did it was just barely. Michael Irvin did it 7 of the 9 full seasons he played.

Well, that last season with the Eagles never happened (he played 3 games)

As far as the 68 career TD's, again, Lynn Swann has 51, he's in the HOF, Lofton has 75, a comparable number, but only 764 catches, he's in the HOF, Ray Berry- 68 and 631, I could go on like this for a while...

You're joking about Irvin right? I know you didn't imply Irvin should be in, but not only did he perfect the push-off, but has fewer yards, catches and TD's than my good friend James Arthur Monk

And if you want to bring up the QB's, Gibbs played "max protect" so he had all day to get open, which any monkey could do

If it was that easy for recievers to get separation and get open, Taylor Jacobs would have caught 100 balls this year...You're oversimplifying the WR position...And it still doesn't change the fact its Jay Schroeder, Joe Theisman and Mark Rypien...

You criticize the 'Skins offense for playing "max protect" but what about Jerry Rice playing in the second greatest offensive system ever created (the West Coast offense)? Shouldn't you hold that against him if your holding Monk's offense against him? Shouldn't you hold the fact that Irvin also had a great offensive line in Dallas? And one of the three greatest RB's in NFL history?

And don't forget the testimonials in this very t

Bulldogcakes

02-05-2006, 08:10 AM

quote: As far as Swan and Lofton go, thats exactly why I think it should be harder to get into the HOF. You dont want it to become a lowest common denominator where "this guy got in so now these 3 should too" and the HOF becomes meaningless. You keep referencing Swan and lofton as if I think they should be in. READ my post. I dont. As far as the rest of your points, I dont even know where to start, but I think you're lost, son. I'll just say it again, you could have got Monk's #'s (or better) from ten other guys in the league and won just as many games. He was an average player for a long time, and that's not a HOFer in my book. 

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El Mudo

02-05-2006, 11:07 AM

I'm not saying that you are implying Lofton and Swann should be in...

I'm comparing Monk's stats to people ALREADY IN THE HALL OF FAME...to which Monk's numbers are vastly superior, which is my main point as to why he should be in the HOF...

It's not an argument as to whether he was "great" or not, but compared to what already has been considered "great", he surpasses it...

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