Monday Night RAW Discussion

[brettmojo]

I'm never watching another WWE event in the south again. They're so fucking meth'd out down there they don't even know where they are.

[conman823]

The Undertaker and team hell no took on the shield on RAW tonight. William Regal got a well deserved pop. The crowd was great.


The rest was bad.

[Kevin]

The Undertaker and team hell no took on the shield on RAW tonight. William Regal got a well deserved pop. The crowd was great.


The rest was bad.

The 2nd week in a row the last match was a Diva match.

It took the life right out of that crowed.

WWE SUCKS.

Did they really think they would give a fuck about layla?

[conman823]

Undertaker wrestling the shield in his first full raw match in 3 years was lower on the card then a Divas Battle Royal and Foley/Cena/Ryback snorefest.

WWE?

WWE, what are you doing?

WWE. Stahp.

[newport king]

The Ziggler/Jericho was OK. Something was just off. Thought Ryder was supposed to make a heel turn instead another squash. Crowd was great. Shield vs Taker and hell no was good. I felt like not enough people made the trip. Ziggler THEN BigE. Clay THEN Sweet T. Wrestling wise it wasn't a bad show. Crowd was great.

And who the shit thought Ultimate Ryberg Warrior should talk? He's terrible. He's not interesting. And why? Why would Cena save him from the Shield? It makes no sense.

[TripleSkeet]

Not a bad show overall. They just still continue to do shit that baffles me. They give Ziggler the belt, then have him lose non-title match after non-title match. Its almost as if they are trying to ruin the guy.

Giving Ryback a mic for 10 minutes to close the show may be the dumbest thing theyve done in awhile. My man ran out of things to say 3 minutes in and just kept repeating himself after that.

I cant believe they still even have women wrestling matches, let alone they keep closing the show with them. Pathetic.

The crowd was pretty damn good though.

[Kevin]

BIG Rybak Pump is TERRIBLE.

Btw..

Did TNA really do a Sons of Anarchy bite off, 4yrs too late.. Then drag it out for 9 months ago just to have BUBBA RAY DUDLEY AS THE LEADER AND YOUR WORLD CHAMPION?

Fuck.. This is why WWE doesn't give a shit to change.

[Dirtbag]

Undertaker wrestling the shield in his first full raw match in 3 years was lower on the card then a Divas Battle Royal and Foley/Cena/Ryback snorefest.

WWE?

WWE, what are you doing?

WWE. Stahp.

The start of the 10:00 hour gets better ratings and these days. You could argue that WWE should be trying to change that instead of play into it, but that's the logic of the booking.

[styckx]

BIG Rybak Pump is TERRIBLE.

Btw..

Did TNA really do a Sons of Anarchy bite off, 4yrs too late.. Then drag it out for 9 months ago just to have BUBBA RAY DUDLEY AS THE LEADER AND YOUR WORLD CHAMPION?

Fuck.. This is why WWE doesn't give a shit to change.

Still a better storyline then anything WWE has done in over a year.. And that logic doesn't add up when comparing TNAs Knockouts Vs Divas.. The knockout division in TNA is awesome wrestling wise and they have actual storylines that aren't terrible either.

I used to bash TNA awhile back but if you watch it without looking for it to be bad.. You'll sorta realize it really isn't and in a lot of areas it's better than WWE's product.

[Kevin]

Still a better storyline then anything WWE has done in over a year.. And that logic doesn't add up when comparing TNAs Knockouts Vs Divas.. The knockout division in TNA is awesome wrestling wise and they have actual storylines that aren't terrible either.

I used to bash TNA awhile back but if you watch it without looking for it to be bad.. You'll sorta realize it really isn't and in a lot of areas it's better than WWE's product.

I'd like nothing better than for stupid Vince to have competition and be forced to try again.

But this is just terrible.

Its the same guys that ran WCW into the ground, doing the same old garbage.

I mean this screams NWO with a biker twist.

Its nothing new or creative.

And come on.. NINE MONTHS?

And have a mid card tag team wrestler lead your company and storyline?

BBBBBBBBBBBUBBBBA RAY? REEEEEEEAAAAAAAALLLLLY?

Are you serious?

Also I HATE when people get shots because they are related to others.

Brook and Bishoff belong nowhere near big storylines.

[newport king]

In fairness while im not a TNA fan, Bubba has definitely elevated his persona to main event status. I do agree with everything else you said

[conman823]

I was a big fan of TNA for a few years. I don't like the direction it has taken since Hogan and Bischoff took over but all things considered they seem to have learned at least a little bit from their mistakes. Bully Ray has really been a great character andi never expected it from him especially this late in his career. The guy is in amazing shape, his mic skills rival even CM Punk and Hey man. The downside is of course the stupid Hogan Family angle he's stuck in.

I hope Bub a comes to WWE as a manager later on, he's still got it in him.

[newport king]

Rosa Mendes got sent home from the European tour for "erratic behavior". Apparently she's been drunk the whole time... God I'd love to take advantage of that situation

[cougarjake13]

Rosa Mendes got sent home from the European tour for "erratic behavior". Apparently she's been drunk the whole time... God I'd love to take advantage of that situation



as would anyone

[Kevin]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/936851_308064675990199_731845135_n.png

[cougarjake13]

hahaha

[MIKEYDAKEN]

why the fuck would cena surprise a kid with half a heart? he could have killed the him.

[cougarjake13]

why the fuck would cena surprise a kid with half a heart? he could have killed the him.



and he was the most coherent one

[Kevin]

why the fuck would cena surprise a kid with half a heart? he could have killed the him.


That's one way to go heel.with make a wish not wanting him anymore,there would be no reason not to.

[MIKEYDAKEN]

daniel bryan looks adorable coming out all tough looking with kane.

[newport king]

Im watching on the dvr. God damn you Cena

[newport king]

Nice match between Rhodes and Orton. Liked the golddust tribute.

[Kevin]

Tug of Wars and dance offs..

The WWE have clearly given up.

[conman823]

I didn't see this past week and apparently I'm not missing much.

Is it just really us small minority that sees something wrong? I'm beyond words on how this past WM had the highest grossing PPV revenue ever? Amazing and all that does is validate the current product.

Its time for a ECW like alternative. Where is the creative minds?

And in closing the injury to Cena should be leading to some time off for him. He needs it and the fans need it too. He would make a bigger impact with a summer slam return then dragging on his character through injuries and boos.

[Dirtbag]

WM29 had the highest revenue ever because they had probably their biggest legit (WM3 number is pretty much bullshit) live gate ever, and could have had more if the set wasn't so damn big. If they even broke a million PPV buys at the new $70 price tag it would lead to higher revenue than even the higher PPV numbers the past few WMs did.

[newport king]

Yeah it's kind of like when movies these days are the biggest grossing films of all time. Its cause the tickets are more expensive than when star wars came out.

[styckx]

Its time for a ECW like alternative. Where is the creative minds?


The ECW alternative exists but getting out of local markets is hard as hell now a days with no local syndication available anymore. Also.. The biggest roadblock is... WWE.. ECW got big because Vince acknowledged them as a company during WWE's stints in Philly when the crowded chanted ECW.. Vince gave ECW that blessing and the rest is history.. If Vince didn't acknowledge ECW and involve them in a WWE broadcast it's very hard to imagine the promotion ever getting as big as it did. This is why Vince goes above and beyond to insane levels to make sure the letters TNA never get mentioned. Then.. Look what happened when TNA finally left the Impact zone.. WWE went around to all the local markets securing buildings for events so TNA couldn't get access to the more larger and well known arenas etc..

Ring Of Honor had the best chance of breaking out into something bigger but somewhere along the lines that never developed.

[Kevin]

WM29 had the highest revenue ever because they had probably their biggest legit (WM3 number is pretty much bullshit) live gate ever, and could have had more if the set wasn't so damn big. If they even broke a million PPV buys at the new $70 price tag it would lead to higher revenue than even the higher PPV numbers the past few WMs did.

I just don't understand how people pay 5dollars or this garbage, let alone 70

[TripleSkeet]

I didn't see this past week and apparently I'm not missing much.

Is it just really us small minority that sees something wrong? I'm beyond words on how this past WM had the highest grossing PPV revenue ever? Amazing and all that does is validate the current product.

Its time for a ECW like alternative. Where is the creative minds?

And in closing the injury to Cena should be leading to some time off for him. He needs it and the fans need it too. He would make a bigger impact with a summer slam return then dragging on his character through injuries and boos.

Their revenue is higher because the stadiums are bigger and the prices are higher. I paid $100 for a ticket to Wrestlemania 15, and was level with the ring. That was a 17,000 seat stadium and the PPV cost about $50 back then. So they are charging more, but getting less people.

I was ready to give them a chance after that Raw after Mania. Ive already taken it off my DVR. I give up.

[conman823]

ROH was gutted of talent by TNA of all places. Now after its original creative director left, now from what I hear and read its just run by an ego maniac who thinks he's Vinces long lost son and the talent pool is shallow at best.

James E Cornette isn't the creative mind he thinks he is, the guys never been successful really he's just another bitter asshole now

[conman823]

If I were Vince, I would give full control of NXT to Triple H. Get him 2 hours of TV and 4 PPVs a year and see how he does. Then if he were successful, I would retire. Triple H and Steph can pat themselves on the back, but they are being given a turn key business. Let's see what they got without Daddy and unlimited funds.

[newport king]

Uhhh...anyone watching this horseshit? If im Vince after tonight im doubling CM Punks salary and begging him to comeback ASAP. They tried elevating Ryback to main event status. Hes failed miserably.

[cougarjake13]

Uhhh...anyone watching this horseshit? If im Vince after tonight im doubling CM Punks salary and begging him to comeback ASAP. They tried elevating Ryback to main event status. Hes failed miserably.

I've been flipping between rangers and this
mostly rangers til intermission and commercials

[newport king]

Note to TNA, hey assholes, put your show on monday nights

[Dirtbag]

Note to TNA, hey assholes, put your show on monday nights

Tried it once. Could not have failed harder.

[cougarjake13]

Tried it once. Could not have failed harder.

exactly

[newport king]

Tried it once. Could not have failed harder.


Their product is better now. WWE is in a malaise, and they're not doing gangbusters as far as ratings go on Thursdays.( .9)

[NickyL0885]

I am exhausted, but staying up to watch RAW. I am thinking I totally made the wrong decision. I just started a new job today, full time, with morning hours, something I am not used to at all. I always worked nights at CVS. Welp! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........

[Kevin]

Their product is better now. WWE is in a malaise, and they're not doing gangbusters as far as ratings go on Thursdays.( .9)

No it is not better.

Its absolute dog shit.

Its WCW 2.0 as uncreative as it gets.

They need to get rid of Hogan and Bischoff and give Paul Hayman a blank check.

As long as those buffoons are there, it will remain dog shit.

[newport king]

Oh its shit...but its not like hogan and flair are the current main event. They're doing live shows, and while WWE is doing some retarded shit it'd be nice to see an alternative

[NickyL0885]

Oh its shit...but its not like hogan and flair are the current main event. They're doing live shows, and while WWE is doing some retarded shit it'd be nice to see an alternative

Didn't someone here saw they're setting up Hogan to win the belt soon? Whatcha gonna do, brother?!

[newport king]

Alright i can't defend TNA, nor do i want to. I was more making a statement about how bad WWE is.

[cougarjake13]

Didn't someone here saw they're setting up Hogan to win the belt soon? Whatcha gonna do, brother?!



it certainly seems that way

[Kevin]

it certainly seems that way

That PPV better be in a hick town. Because if that happens in the east coast, they will get run off the arena.

[MIKEYDAKEN]

has shemus always had a lisp?

[Kevin]

If thats triple H office then its the shittiest office of a high level exec in history

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That desk looks like it was bought from the clearance section at staples

[cougarjake13]

yeh some small little dink office in the middle of a hallway doesn't seem like that's where his office would be

although that backdrop wall looked kinda outta place so maybe it was his office and they just made a quick little fake room in it



either way it's not gonna make people care about fight 3.0 anymore then the first 2

[WRESTLINGFAN]

For any bikers out there


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[styckx]

A dance off?

And off it goes just that quick

Sent from my Nexus 10

[newport king]

This Fandango heat died quick.

[NickyL0885]

Wasted 20 minutes for this crap. Tonight's show is off a rockin' start.

[cougarjake13]

everyone has already summed up my thoughts

[newport king]

Watching a few min behind on the dvr. Fandango is the wwe version of gangnam style/harlem shake

[NickyL0885]

Either Ziggler's twitter was hacked, or he's shitting all over the product while watching.

[newport king]

Mark Henry is one of my favorite people on the roster.

[epo]

Wow. Mix is more lame than I thought he was.

Just awful.

[newport king]

Worst figure four. Goin. Today.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

DVR'd it last night. Looks like I'll be doing a lot of FFWD'ing

[cougarjake13]

DVR'd it last night. Looks like I'll be doing a lot of FFWD'ing


said anyone for the last five or more years

[TripleSkeet]

Either Ziggler's twitter was hacked, or he's shitting all over the product while watching.

Dolph Ziggler‏@HEELZiggler23h
well, that was fun...for YOU
oh & if @VinceMcMahon asks

MY TWITTER ACCOUNT WAS HACKED!!!! oh no!!! ;)
#LaterMarks

They were more entertaining than the actual show.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Anyone get Extreme rules? I didn't order it but I am getting updates. Looks like the shield is having a good night

[styckx]

Shield matches worth watching..

Cena match was the most retarded ending I've ever seen.. You know shit is retarded when the entire announce table goes to full blown Owen Hart is dead voices..

Brock match was ok but completely fucking useless as there was zero point in the match. No consequences for the winner/loser etc.

[Kevin]

I had no idea this stupid shit was tonight.

I think Ive quit watching this garbage.

[conman823]

Read the results. What shit. I can't anymore, I told my wife to take off the recording for tomorrow night. I'm gonna go back to just reading sites and maybe dvring AMRAW.

back in the day I stopped watching because hhh was eternal WHC and nobody could beat him. It got corny and boring.

Same thing today, just change HHH with Cena

[newport king]

Watching RAW on the DVR. Holy shit who's idea was it to let Ryback ramble on for 8 min to open the show??? Cool new theme for Barrett.Looks like RVD will be back tonight.

[MIKEYDAKEN]

Watching RAW on the DVR. Holy shit who's idea was it to let Ryback ramble on for 8 min to open the show??? Cool new theme for Barrett.Looks like RVD will be back tonight.

no he didn't and you'll be sad as to who it is.

[RingWraith]

I had no idea this stupid shit was tonight.

I think Ive quit watching this garbage.

I've been feeling the same way for the last couple of weeks. Lately I just fast forward almost the whole show. It's so bad, I'm wondering WHY I still have it dvr'ed.

[newport king]

no he didn't and you'll be sad as to who it is.


I LOVED the Mr. Perfect remix theme. But Curt Axel?

[newport king]

no he didn't and you'll be sad as to who it is.


Suprisigly im not down on it. He needs an angle. Hopefully they dont add Alex Riley and DiBiase jr.

[MIKEYDAKEN]

Suprisigly im not down on it. He needs an angle. Hopefully they dont add Alex Riley and DiBiase jr.

I wish the best for the kid but damn he's fighting uphill right now

[newport king]

HHH better not bury him. RVD run in. Punk return. SOMETHING.

[MIKEYDAKEN]

HHH better not bury him. RVD run in. Punk return. SOMETHING.http://25.media.tumblr.com/5c81410b3be1b162aaee38aa62921cb3/tumblr_mn4jdfCNhP1rdfh1bo1_500.jpg

[cougarjake13]

HHH better not bury him. RVD run in. Punk return. SOMETHING.



I was thinking Batista but having a young guy Paul can work with makes more sense

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That was a great 6 man match.

[TripleSkeet]

I LOVED the Mr. Perfect remix theme. But Curt Axel?



Apparently they are going the Rocky Maivia path. I cant believe they actually had Heyman explain it though. Id say about 40% of current fans know who Mr. Perfect was and about 5% know who Larry The Axe Hennig was. The music was bad ass though. I really hope HHH isnt going to start his career rebirth by burying him.

[brettmojo]

If Triple H hurls, greatest Raw ever.

[conman823]

Even the dirt sheets are boring these days. Glad for Joe Hennig getting his shot finally, his father was my favorite wrestler of all time.

On the dirt sheets the following boring/stupid things are rumored:
- turning Mark Henry face.
- having Orton and Sheamus feud AGAIN
- having booker t feud with Teddy Long

I'm sure I'm missing some but those are some great angles to look forward too, and the burying of what's left of Ryback.

[styckx]

Scott Hall is looking and sounding amazing.. It's weird hearing him sober because he is so clear and concise with his words.. He's actually a very well spoken person..

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[newport king]

6'8 260. Big kid. I hope that Jake and Scott continue this path once they move out of the house. McMahon should honestly induct DDP into the hall of fame based off the fact hes saving lives.

[TripleSkeet]

Ill tell you what, he could learn a TON about wrestling psychology living in a house with those 3.

So far DDP has literally grabbed 2 guys out of the grave that NOBODY thought could be saved.

[newport king]

I could watch Daniel Bryan wrestle a broom. He's as good as HHH thinks HE was. Shame that Seth Rollins is saddled with Reigns as a tag partner. Other than punch, kick, slam, scream, he doesnt have much. At one point in the tag match Rollins was in for a solid 8min, Reigns comes in 2 moves later he was tagging out. Rollins kind of gave him a look.

I couldnt really tell but it sounded like they changed Axel's music slightly where it seems harder to pick up the Mr. Perfect theme. Not sure whos idea it was to pick this guy out of obscurity but i like it. Alot. I like that they put him with Heyman to get him over with the smarks. And i like that they didnt over do it on the repackage. Hes not wearing a singlet. Dolph has the bleached blonde market cornered. He doesnt bring a towel or chew gum. But there ARE some subtleties. Snapmare into a rolling snapmare, and the perfectplex sounded like it got over huge.

Bray Wyatt and the Wyatt family look really fuckin cool from the promo. Apparently he is Irwin R Schuyster's kid.

[newport king]

Just watched some of Wyatt's work in FCW. If WWE doesnt cut his balls off and make him a PG joke, this guy is gonna be huge.

[styckx]

If WWE doesnt cut his balls off and make him a PG joke

This is the WWE you're talking about.. Everyone gets their balls cut off.

[MIKEYDAKEN]

This is the WWE you're talking about.. Everyone gets their balls cut off.

I'd be worried if they didn't bring all 3 up at once,but this may be another HHH project.

[cougarjake13]

wow did no one watch ?


i didn't

I dvrd it and usually what for updates here before watching

[Dirtbag]

Daniel Bryan is great, everything else isn't. Get your FF button ready.

[walking joint]

Daniel Bryan is great, everything else isn't. Get your FF button ready.

He is by far the best thing on RAW.

[brettmojo]

wow did no one watch ?


i didn't

I dvrd it and usually what for updates here before watching

I forgot it was on.

[MIKEYDAKEN]

wow did no one watch ?


i didn't

I dvrd it and usually what for updates here before watching

Hockey was on and even on in the background I was bored.

[newport king]

I think the Wyatt family will come in, brainwash Bryan and start a nice feud. That's what i would do.

[styckx]

He is by far the best thing on RAW.

Which means he'll be punished.. He made Ryback look like the green untalented, non-personality muscle head he really is.

And yeah. The rest of RAW can be skipped.. As usual

[Sue_Bender]

Daniel Bryan was 1/3 of RAW...and he was glorious.

[cougarjake13]

that whole shit with trips Vince and steph was retarded
I gt what they're trying to do but that just felt so unnatural and forced

Bryan was awesome only time I didn't fast forward

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Tonight started off with HHH fighting Axel. Vince stopped the match. Trips restarted it, went back and forth a few times until Vince took the bell from ringside

[newport king]

I have no idea where this HHH/McMahon story is going. Hopefully it involves Shane-O-Mac

[NickyL0885]

I have no idea where this HHH/McMahon story is going. Hopefully it involves Shane-O-Mac

I had read that it will involve Vince, Steph and his kids pleading with him not to wrestle anymore.

[NickyL0885]

Can AJ and Kaitlyn make out? Please?

[Kevin]

Daniel Bryan and the announce team are the only reason to watch this otherwise pile of shit.

When Punk comes back he will be on that list.

[newport king]

I fell asleep. Last thing i remember was Kane hugging Vicki. This show is tough to get thru

[cougarjake13]

Can AJ and Kaitlyn make out? Please?

kaitlynn looked amazing in whatever that outfit was

[conman823]

I was all WTF with HHH and VKM. Then VKM took the bell and I was all like LOL.

Aside from that it was a terrible go home show to a PPV. I also would have turned Big E face with Kaitlyn storyline.

Ryback is such an unbelievable amount of awful. Also you can tell when Cena just isn't Into an angle and he isn't into this one.

I got tix to the RAW at the Barclays next month more to see the Barclays than the WWE.

[newport king]

If they dont see how much their product suffers when Punk isnt around then theyre blind. Ive been falling asleep the last 3 weeks. Just awful. Ryback is the absolute shits. I cant kill Cena for not being into this one.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Anyone getting payback

Punk returns tonight

[cougarjake13]

no
I'll just see the updates online and recaps tomoro on raw

[newport king]

I ordered it. Theres nothing on tonight. Punks return and the chicago crowd sold me.

First match Miz, Barrett and Axel was great. Awesome ending. You could tell Hennig was emotional after the win. Looked like it kind of hit him at once.

[Kevin]

Chicago is the only non northeast/England Canada area that WWE should only do events in.

[newport king]

As far as womens matches go, nobody got paralyzed in the Kaitlyn/AJ match. So thats a suprise. The bigger suprise is it was better than any match thats been on RAW in the last 2 months. Except for D.Bryan matches. Plus theyre both hot as shit in their own way

[newport king]

2matches in and im pleased with my purchase so far.

[newport king]

Ambrose retains via countout vs Kane. In an OK match. Weakest on the card so far. More importantly RVD returns at MITB

[newport king]

STRONG support for Ziggler. I love chicago

[newport king]

Great story telling/psychology in the Ziggler/ADR match. Complete face and heel turn for both guys.

[newport king]

They have an expert panel with josh mathews, big show, rtruth and cody rhodes. Im enjoying them together. Showing some personality on guys that need that kind of exposure.

[cougarjake13]

Great story telling/psychology in the Ziggler/ADR match. Complete face and heel turn for both guys.


I wonder if he's not fully healthy and they had him drop it to adr

[newport king]

I wonder if he's not fully healthy and they had him drop it to adr



With that many headshots its hard to think theyd take that kind of risk with him. I think they used the injury to start a major feud. And if thats the case, good for creative.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

From what I'm hearing so far. Tomorrows raw might be the 1st one in weeks that I will watch most of instead of DVR'ing it and FFwding thru

[Kevin]

Shocking if this goes 3 stages, right?

[newport king]

From what I'm hearing so far. Tomorrows raw might be the 1st one in weeks that I will watch most of instead of DVR'ing it and FFwding thru

This has been the best PPV i can remember them putting on in a LONG time. Unfortunately im sure RAW will be a 3hr suckfest with touting and trending references.

Puck/Jericho was great. Punk looked a bit winded but both were great. Punk looks like wolverine now. Seth Rollins is good Roman Reigns is really the weak link in that trio.

Despite what Jericho and Punk claim, Daniel Bryan is currently the best in the world.

[newport king]

Sign of the night "Dont Hinder Jinder"

[cougarjake13]

Shocking if this goes 3 stages, right?



woulda been shocking if It didnt

[newport king]

First hour has been pretty solid so far. Till Sheamus came out.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Decent 1st hour. Punk got a really good pop from the crowd

Bryan vs Orton should be a good one

[newport king]

So what was up in the Bryan/Orton match? I saw Orton squeeze Bryans leg (checking for a legit injury?)

[Kevin]

I like Ol Paul Bunyan head, Curtis Axel.

[cougarjake13]

any doubts heyman or axel or lesnar does a run in ?

[newport king]

Im watching on delay. How can anyone not love Mark Henry

[cougarjake13]

Im watching on delay. How can anyone not love Mark Henry



I heard the rumors of him vs cena

then he was retiring


and as he kept going I said I guess he's really retiring

and bam !!!

[epo]

Punk v Lesnar could be a helluva feud.

[Kevin]

So...

Raw has managed to turn things around..

I am really excited about the new directions they are taking.

This is why TNA can't compete...

Its not run by former WCW hacks and has beens that refuse to realize they can't repeat what they had.

Punk Lesnar should be an awesome fued.

Along with Dolph Del Rio

and who ever DBryan is feuding against.

[newport king]

Whoever was in charge starting at Payback and this past RAW has done a great job. Dont know if it coincides with Steph becoming more involved infront of the camera or not. If it does its a small price to pay for well booked programs.

[TripleSkeet]

Watched Raw for the first time in a month. Really good show. Ive never been the biggest Mark Henry fan, but his promo last night was the best one hes ever done. He had me fooled.

And Punk / Lesnar could be epic.

[Kevin]

Really?

I wasn't fooled for a second. I knew that was coming from the start. Still he was awesome. Loved the jacket

[TripleSkeet]

Really?

I wasn't fooled for a second. I knew that was coming from the start. Still he was awesome. Loved the jacket

I havent read any dirtsheets in a few weeks, but he looked like he was legitimately losing it. That threw me because although his promos were ok, he never really was one for convincing me of anything unless it was wanting to squash someone.

[newport king]

I havent read any dirtsheets in a few weeks, but he looked like he was legitimately losing it. That threw me because although his promos were ok, he never really was one for convincing me of anything unless it was wanting to squash someone.

Those were legit tears. He dropped character. It kind of gave it away when he asked Cena to stay. But i loved every minute of it. "THIS IS WHAT I DO!!! THERES PLENTY IN THE TANK!!"

Not since Clubber Lang has somwone been so good of a disrespectful shit talker.

[brettmojo]

<div style="background-color:#000000;width:520px;"><div style="padding:4px;"><iframe src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/embed/mgid:cms:video:thedailyshow.com:427258" width="512" height="288" frameborder="0"></iframe><p style="text-align:left;background-color:#FFFFFF;padding:4px;margin-top:4px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;"><b><a href="http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-18-2013/immigration---the-wwe">The Daily Show with Jon Stewart</a></b><br/>Get More: <a href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a>,<a href='http://www.comedycentral.com/indecision'>Indecision Political Humor</a>,<a href='http://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow'>The Daily Show on Facebook</a></p></div></div>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No return date for Fandango. He cleared initial tests from his concussion but he has not been green lit

He had a few of them as Johnny Curtis when he was in NXT

[conman823]

Not good for Fandango. Especially since they have let Axel bulldozer over what little spot they had and the Wyatt Family is coming which I'm hoping brings in some good angles.

Ziggler/ Del Rio double turn was good. Although I think Ziggler will be more of a tweener than a true face like Michaels and Perfect were.

Henry is awesome. GIVE him the belt let him have a crush run with the gold. Fuck I would have him put Cena OUT till Summerslam. Give us a break from tired ass Superman Cena. The guy deserves it but he can't go too long because he's injury prone.

[Kevin]

Really? The Rock?

I love how cole listed reasons why he deserves the cover and not one had anything to do with wrestling.

How about someone WHO WRESTLES

[newport king]

Watching on the DVR. Enjoyed AJ shitting on Kaitlyn

[cougarjake13]

an Kaitlin was hilarious


and I'm glad that they're taking axel in a lil diff direction then making him perfect 2.0 cause we already have him in ziggler

I mean tonight he's never looked more like perfect

[newport king]

Im pretty sure Vince would suck Rocks dick if he asked him

[brettmojo]

is it too hard to have qualifying matches for the MITB match? Or is that too hard?

These hick fans look so excited to be told the participants.

[newport king]

Looks like some of the luster has worn off of Ryback. This is the guy they had headline 2 PPVs for the companys biggest belt. He just wrestled Khali.

[cougarjake13]

Looks like some of the luster has worn off of Ryback. This is the guy they had headline 2 PPVs for the companys biggest belt. He just wrestled Khali.



was inevitable

[newport king]

What's the point of Brad Maddox?

Punk Heyman was good tv.

Look forward to seeing RVD again. Not looking forward to how they'll misuse him again. The promos just make me youtube old ECW stuff. Forever Hardcore is a pretty good documentary. The whole thing is on youtube if you got 2hrs to kill

[brettmojo]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>The &quot;Randolph and Mortimer&quot;. <a href="http://t.co/XDuwcPKccj">pic.twitter.com/XDuwcPKccj</a></p>&mdash; CM Punk (@CMPunk) <a href="https://twitter.com/CMPunk/statuses/349374673085165568">June 25, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Dirtbag]

If you're looking forward to RVD returning you must not watch TNA. In addition to just being 42 and being broken down, the guy obviously has zero fucks left to give.

If you want an RVD fix stick to ECW stuff and maybe a very select few WWE matches.

[conman823]

Im pretty sure Vince would suck Rocks dick if he asked him


He really would. Meanwhile I don't think Rock is coming back....unless there's a lot of zeros in the check.

I just wish, even as a heel commentator, JBL would say a negative thing about the Crock.

Heyman/Punk homo erotic love fest.

[newport king]

If you're looking forward to RVD returning you must not watch TNA. In addition to just being 42 and being broken down, the guy obviously has zero fucks left to give.

If you want an RVD fix stick to ECW stuff and maybe a very select few WWE matches.


Could be he just didnt give a fuck about TNA. I mean who IS watching? But like i said they wont use him right.

[conman823]

I think RVD is still in great shape and has a good run left in him, if used right.

Also I read how he kinda shit on TNA, not a surprise. At one time TNA had a better talent pool than WWE as far a young talent and potential went, but Hogan and Bischoff mismanaged it so bad.

I think at MIB we get one hell of a ladder match with RVD winning it, because why bring him back to lose unless he's gonna be a Super Enhancement talent like Jericho.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Heyman had some good segments last night

Anyone remember him as Paul E Dangerously back in the NWA?

He was basically a northeast version of Cornette carrying a brick for a cell phone

[conman823]

Old WCW had some good stuff.

Dangerous Alliance. Dungeon of doom, until hogan showed up and fucked it up. Regal. Vader. Simmons.

[TripleSkeet]

Man Raw went right back to boring tonight.

The Punk / Heyman promo was good.

The crowd ruined Mark Henrys promo with those retarded WHAT chants.

I cant believe they just fed Ryback to Cena and then middle of the pack again. Speaking of which, what a shitty way to throw togther a PPV match with Jericho.

Brad Maddox makes me laugh.

Punk was on the cover of last years WWE game. Cena has been on the 8 before that. Who should they have put on it? Ziggler? I wouldve been fine with that but besides him theres nobody on the roster worthy of being on the cover of a video game. Jesus these guys arent even allowed to main event a PPV.

[conman823]

How about a cover with 4 people on it? Why does it have to be only 1 person? That a stupid fucking Madden rule that has nothing to do with wrestling.

I'm sure the Rock really cares especially since he couldn't get away quick enough after the 123 at WM. maybe Vince kisses the crotch area of the giant poster every night before bed

[newport king]

D. Bryan wouldve been a good choice. Especially with the huge push hes about to get.

[TripleSkeet]

D. Bryan wouldve been a good choice. Especially with the huge push hes about to get.

Yea Ill believe that when I see it. Not to say the fucking guy doesnt deserve it.

[newport king]

Hes my pick for MITB. And hopefully pull an upset over Mark Henry for the strap. Straight up. Not even cash in while hes hurt. Maybe Summerslam. Ive said it before, no matter what Punk and others may claim hes easily the best in the world right now

[TripleSkeet]

Hes my pick for MITB. And hopefully pull an upset over Mark Henry for the strap. Straight up. Not even cash in while hes hurt. Maybe Summerslam. Ive said it before, no matter what Punk and others may claim hes easily the best in the world right now

I agree solely how hes been able to make even the shittiest of angles and gimmicks theyve thrown at him work and work well.

[cougarjake13]

Hes my pick for MITB. And hopefully pull an upset over Mark Henry for the strap. Straight up. Not even cash in while hes hurt. Maybe Summerslam. Ive said it before, no matter what Punk and others may claim hes easily the best in the world right now



if Henry does get the belt from Cena then ur idea I totally see happening
I don't see them having Bryan take the belt off cena at least not now while he's still a face

if they go heel turn then I can see him cashing in on cena and using the whole weak link angle as part of his turn

[conman823]

The crowd Monday night was terrible. A3 real example of how to kill what was otherwise a completely decent show.

Henry was cutting an awesome promo and the goddamn mother fucking stupid idiotic "WHAT?" chants ruin everything. I fucking wish I could go back in time to the first time SCSA was gonna start that stupid fucking shit and kill him with a bazooka.

Brooklyn better make me proud in 2 weeks. It's gonna be my first RAW in over 10 years

[cougarjake13]

yeh the what chants are so annoying and obtrusive most of the time now

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I hope Axel can bring some legitimacy back for the IC strap. For most it was the prelude to becoming WWE champ. So many wrestlers were able to get a huge push.

[cougarjake13]

all the belts not the big 2 are just after thoughts for at least since attitude ended

[newport king]

MITB briefcase is more important than the IC belt.

[cougarjake13]

MITB briefcase is more important than the IC belt.



sadly this is true

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Going to DVR tonight's show. It's the debut of the Wyatt family. Read online that the Vicki job review is going to take a jab at TNA

[cougarjake13]

Going to DVR tonight's show. It's the debut of the Wyatt family. Read online that the Vicki job review is going to take a jab at TNA



dvr'd as well
haven't gotten to that point

how are they gonna poke at tna ?

[newport king]

My fucking dvr cut it off at 10:30. Right during the debut. Time to hit the interwebs to watch. God damn you comcast.

[MIKEYDAKEN]

My fucking dvr cut it off at 10:30. Right during the debut. Time to hit the interwebs to watch. God damn you comcast.

fucking retards started chanting husky harris as soon as he walks over to the group,I hope this shit doesn't catch on like the whats.

[newport king]

Yeah i just saw it. I really hate wrestling fans. We fucking get it. Everyone knows he used to be husky harris. What kind of assholes would try to sabotage the most interesting character to come along in years?

[newport king]

Mark Henry is cutting the most interesting promos in a 17 year career. WHAT?! WHAT?! assholes.

[cougarjake13]

Yeah i just saw it. I really hate wrestling fans. We fucking get it. Everyone knows he used to be husky harris. What kind of assholes would try to sabotage the most interesting character to come along in years?



assholes from baltimore

[conman823]

fucking retards started chanting husky harris as soon as he walks over to the group,I hope this shit doesn't catch on like the whats.


It's so fucking annoying. The fans have been the worst part of RAW the last 2 months.

[TripleSkeet]

My DVR cut out right after Vince named Maddox GM. Which I actually liked. Just saw the debut online. Still not sure where they are going with this character, but im interested. I didnt see any of the stuff they did in FCW. Im just hoping Vince doesnt just turn them into the Godwinns all over again.

[epo]

Bray reminds me of something from the old Deep South days of wrasslin, which I think is fucking great. All reminders of Kevin Sullivan-type creepiness lead to me being entertained.

And of course fans in Baltimore can suck a dick.

[hanso]

Bray reminds me of something from the old Deep South days of wrasslin, which I think is fucking great. All reminders of Kevin Sullivan-type creepiness lead to me being entertained.

And of course fans in Baltimore can suck a dick.

Just saw him on classics

[epo]

Just saw him on classics

Despite the craziness of Vince and his cartoon-ization of the business, gimmicks with that level of psychology win me over every time.

Foley, Punk, Sullivan, Raven. None of them had/have the WWE body. All of them had psychology & can work.

If Bray can work and tell a story, he's gonna be awesome.

[cougarjake13]

I liked the idea of starting the first fued with Kane

[epo]

I liked the idea of starting the first fued with Kane

I actually hope it's an injury angle.

[cougarjake13]

I actually hope it's an injury angle.



dirt sheets saying that its part of the plan to hopefully have Wyatt family vs brothers of destruction at summer slam

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Orton must have a good lawyer. He made out very good in his divorce


http://m.tmz.com/#Article/2013/07/10/wwe-randy-orton-divorce-final-bentley-guns

[conman823]

Considering she probably contributes little or nothing money wise than he should keep most. Divorce in this country is twisted horribly, good for Orton he should climb the table and do his pose at the signing of the papers.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

As Kanye said


We want prenup , We want prenup

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Almost 300k a month salary. Not bad for someone who will be most likely a mid carder for the rest of his contract

[cougarjake13]

na he's higher then mid card but not always main event

[WRESTLINGFAN]

1 more violation and he won't even be doing dark matches

[conman823]

Now its come out that that salary number was an exaggeration. Still the guy is in obvious limbo career wise. Those 2 strikes hurt and now a divorce. Sucks to be him right now. Who knows maybe he asked to be downplayed for awhile while the divorce was going on.

If Orton is to save himself he needs to refresh his gimmick. He's too young to keep this one boring "character" and move set another 10 years.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Saw that he makes around 1 million annually

That's probably base salary. I know superstars get a cut of merch sales

[WRESTLINGFAN]

MITB tonight

Who's getting it ?

[newport king]

I got it. Wasnt going to but then saw it was in Philly so i figured itd be a good crowd and the last PPV was excellent. My MITB winners are Ambrose (maybe Barrett) and Bryan.

[newport king]

Fandango with the holyshit move so far.

[newport king]

Really enjoyable innovative first match so far.

[newport king]

Sandow with the doublecross on Cody. Crowd really behind Cody and Ambrose in this match.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Fuck !!!!

All the PPV's I don't get end up being good

[Dirtbag]

Fuck !!!!

All the PPV's I don't get end up being good

Money in the Bank is almost at Royal Rumble level. There's almost no way its going to be bad.

[newport king]

I wonder if Ryback and Cena have noticed AJ and Kaitlyn have had 2 better PPV matches than they did.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Money in the Bank is almost at Royal Rumble level. There's almost no way its going to be bad.



I always get the 4 major ones, sometimes I'll order the others. Looks like the last 2 have lived up

The Raws are usually decent the day following a PPV

[cougarjake13]

I always get the 4 major ones, sometimes I'll order the others. Looks like the last 2 have lived up

The Raws are usually decent the day following a PPV


and tomoros raw is in brooklyn

[newport king]

GREAT match between ADR and Ziggler. Hated the finish but god damn is AJ adorable.

[Kevin]

Why did they have to give like a month notice on RVD just have his as a surprise. The crowed would have went nuts.

Asshats

[RingWraith]

Why did they have to give like a month notice on RVD just have his as a surprise. The crowed would have went nuts.

Asshats

I'm with ya, but sadly WWE just doesn't believe in surprise appearances anymore.

Oh and I'm pissed that Mark Henry didn't win the title. :/

[MIKEYDAKEN]

so the red case is now just used to force a top guy who they want to just jam into the main event scene rather than using for a guy who hasn't held the belt 5 or more times.

[styckx]

Shitty PPV.. The first match and last match was the only worth while matches and the last one was such a shit ending w/ Orton winning it almost cancels it out..

DQing Zigglers match is a prime example of why people hate Vince. Also add in Orton winning ANOTHER title shot when he's proven to be a hotheaded violation breaker. And Cenas match was to a T a SOS Cena match.

[newport king]

That one really fell apart. I fell asleep during the main event. World Heavyweight MITB was great. AJ/Kaitlyn was very good. ADR/Ziggler wouldve been a 5 star match if it werent for the hack ending. Why even bother putting Mark Henry in that match? Guy goes out cuts the best promos of his career, is a believable monster and supercena beats him. And we all know its fake but can someine tell john to stop bring so fuckin blatant when talking in the ring? And Randy Orton? For real? This PPV has Stephs stink all over it. Just give the booking to Heyman and Dutch Mantel already. The wrote the best RAW you had in years.

[newport king]

And what the shit is a WWE Training Facility??? Like the WCW Powerplant? Who fucking cares?

[cougarjake13]

And what the shit is a WWE Training Facility??? Like the WCW Powerplant? Who fucking cares?



it's better then the shithole they were using here in Tampa but sadly no more live nxt for me unless I feel like driving to o-town

[conman823]

Gonna be at RAW tonight.....pray for me.


These days it's a coin flip, could be awesome, or I could be snoring in my seat by hour 3.

[NickyL0885]

http://deadspin.com/a-redditor-has-been-leaking-wwe-outcomes-for-months-787445495

[MIKEYDAKEN]

fucking crowd is already WHAT-ING,this may be a long night.

[styckx]

That was... The best moment in wrestling I've seen in a long fucking time.. Take all the shoot promos and kayfabe breaking markout moments etc.. Heyman And Punk = GOLD

When it comes to just pure old school story telling and angle development.. Holy fuck... What just happened is just... THAT"S HOW YOU DO IT..

I'm pumped... I love this.. This is how you write a story. Holy FUCK F5!

I LOVE THIS!!!!

This has heyman writing all over it!!!

[newport king]

Dvr'ing it. Watching soon as the hr derby is over. I read a few weeks ago vince scrapped stephs RAW script minutes before air and Zeb Coulter and Heyman rewrote the entire show. It was the best raw in a long time.

[cougarjake13]

Dvr'ing it. Watching soon as the hr derby is over. I read a few weeks ago vince scrapped stephs RAW script minutes before air and Zeb Coulter and Heyman rewrote the entire show. It was the best raw in a long time.



let em keep doing it then

[styckx]

I'm honestly still in shock that segment actually happened in 2013.. Fuck.. Man.. That really brang back some AE/Ruthless Aggression memories..

[newport king]

let em keep doing it then

But then what will princess and her soap opera writers do?

[styckx]

WTF BOOKED THIS RAW?

I have no complaints now.

THAT-MATCH-RULED

[styckx]

Best RAW in ages. I'm so glad I choose to watch that..

[newport king]

Watching now. I really hope heyman and coulter got head writing duties

[newport king]

Maddox looks like a young bischoff. Hes grown on me

[newport king]

Which one of you said RVD was no good anymore? Bullshit.

[MIKEYDAKEN]

Which one of you said RVD was no good anymore? Bullshit.

RVD's biggest issue was he just didn't give a fuck in tna but now he knows people are watching so he'll go harder.

[Kevin]

Which one of you said RVD was no good anymore? Bullshit.

At 42 he is better than 95% of the roster.

great show.

[TripleSkeet]

Great Raw. Man I swear the show is 10 times better when its in front of a good crowd.

[conman823]

It was great live, and the Barclays is a great arena.

[cougarjake13]

But then what will princess and her soap opera writers do?



who cares

[Dirtbag]

Which one of you said RVD was no good anymore? Bullshit.

He sucked dog dicks in TNA because he didn't give a shit. He's been back two days and was wrestling Chris fucking Jericho. Give it a month when he's in there with the Wade Barretts of the world and see what kind of performance he puts on.

[styckx]

RVD phoned in his entire TNA career.

[cougarjake13]

RVD phoned in his entire TNA career.


pretty much all of it after he had the belt for a minute

[Kevin]

He sucked dog dicks in TNA because he didn't give a shit. He's been back two days and was wrestling Chris fucking Jericho. Give it a month when he's in there with the Wade Barretts of the world and see what kind of performance he puts on.

Who doesn't suck dog dicks on TNA.. What's their incentive? Its terribly run and has awful thinly veiled old 10yr WCW story lines.. I tried to give give that pile of dog shit a chance but could not.

[styckx]

Who doesn't suck dog dicks on TNA

To be honest.. From a wrestling perspective.. 95% of the roster bust their ass every match, even the ladies...

[Dirtbag]

To be honest.. From a wrestling perspective.. 95% of the roster bust their ass every match, even the ladies...

This. They just have zero creative direction and the top of the card is being dragged down by two guys in their 50s.

[conman823]

I've seen it reported that, along with TNAs troubles, ROH has fallen apart. Sad because at one time either were a great alternative to WWE for good quality matches.

[Kevin]

To be honest.. From a wrestling perspective.. 95% of the roster bust their ass every match, even the ladies...

The young ones do because they want to be noticed by the WWE..

What does a 42yr old RVD have to bust his ass for?

He is a top notch talent yet he see's fucking bischoffs awful son and others being in the main storylines along with the dinosaurs.

What incentive does he have?

[Dirtbag]

His paycheck. He may not have been making Hogan/Sting money, but he wasn't making the pittance most of TNA's homegrown talent was either.

[styckx]

The young ones do because they want to be noticed by the WWE..

What does a 42yr old RVD have to bust his ass for?

He is a top notch talent yet he see's fucking bischoffs awful son and others being in the main storylines along with the dinosaurs.

What incentive does he have?

These four are a good example and many more follow.. Again.. 90% of TNAs roster bust their ass every match and a majority are "up there" or getting up there in age.. Angle still easily wrestles just as good today as the day he left WWE and Christopher Daniels is a mad man at 43 and easily risks his own life constantly.

None of these guys "phone it in" and practically kill themselvs every match

Kurt Angle: 44
Christoper Daniels: 43
AJ Styles: 36
Kaz: 35

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/WPqDog5E4Nc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[cougarjake13]

I liked what the Wyatt family did to 3mb on man event


he keeps talking about Kane and follow the buzzards

at first I thought it was to just continue the feud from after the attack but it kinda feels like he's trying to recruit him

[styckx]

If you didn't see RAW I recommend you at least watch the Daniel Brian Vs Cesaro match.. It was the best match of Cesaros career and easily one of the best matches of the year in general.. Just incredible..

[Dirtbag]

Cesaro has been putting on amazing matches since day one. For some reason he just can't get the average fan to give a shit about him.

And speaking of, he's got what's said to be one of the best WWE matches in years with Sami "Don't Call Me El Generico" Zayn on NXT either this or next Wednesday.

[NickyL0885]

I read the rumors that Bryan will beat Cena, only to have Orton run out and cash in and win at SS. If that is the case, idk why they want to derail the DB train. He's iron hot right now. Why potentially kill it?

[conman823]

Bryan will not beat Cena. They didn't leave the belt off of golden boy for a whole year just to have him lose it in 2 months.

[spe5150]

Knicks, Rangers, & WWE will be looking for a new home in New York (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/nyregion/madison-square-garden-is-told-to-move.html?_r=0)

[brettmojo]

Knicks, Rangers, & WWE will be looking for a new home in New York (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/nyregion/madison-square-garden-is-told-to-move.html?_r=0)

About time.

[cougarjake13]

Bryan will not beat Cena. They didn't leave the belt off of golden boy for a whole year just to have him lose it in 2 months.



normally I'd agree but he's had it since mania and by summer slam that'll be over 4 months
I don't see Orton waiting like dolph did for almost a year to cash in so I can see that scenario
where Bryan wins then Orton cashes in Bryan Orton fued for a lil

not sure what cena does during that time but by years end hed be in a feud with Bryan

[conman823]

The worst case scenario, which will probably happen, is Bryan takes Cena too "his limit" but Cena retains, then Orton attempts to cash in, and Cena becomes the first person to defend on a cash in.

Don't forget this whole Cena/Bryan storyline is based off of how they want to tie in this god awful divas show. So it's not about Bryan's chase of the gold, at least not 100%.

[cougarjake13]

The worst case scenario, which will probably happen, is Bryan takes Cena too "his limit" but Cena retains, then Orton attempts to cash in, and Cena becomes the first person to defend on a cash in.

Don't forget this whole Cena/Bryan storyline is based off of how they want to tie in this god awful divas show. So it's not about Bryan's chase of the gold, at least not 100%.


he wouldn't be the first cause last year he won the mitb and tried to cash in on cm punk but punk retained

[styckx]

The Total Divas show might be the worst thing I've ever seen in my life and it hasn't even aired yet. The Bellas are the worst thing to happen to the Divas division since the collapse of the Divas division. They're shit on top of shit and WWE is trying to force us to like the taste of shit and no ones buying it.

[conman823]

Total Divas will be the first of like 5 show ideas they were gonna do for the (failed) WWE NETWORK idea. I'm sure they're shopping for a home for the Legends House too.

Far as the cash in I meant a surprise cash in loss. Plus I did totally forget about the Cena "standup" cash in/loss.

I love Zeb

[cougarjake13]

zeb is easily one of my favorite parts of raw
I'm glad they gave him another wrestler

now just add a legit tag team and not swagger and cesaro and you have the makings of a stable

[conman823]

A true master of mic work that keeps racism PG friendly.

[cougarjake13]

A true master of mic work that keeps racism PG friendly.


imagine him during attitude
holy fuck

[newport king]

Im always waiting for him to slip up and cross the line.