Roger Clemens is insane

[Snoogans]

He is goin to arbitration with Houston, Houston offering 13.5 million, and Clemens had the balls to go into the arbitration wanting 22 million dollars

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[booster11373]

clearly his best years are still ahead of him(said sarcasticly)

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[The Nature Boy]

Why not? He SAYS he doesn't want to play, but maybe he'd do it for the right cash. And he took far below market value last year ($5 million) to play when he could have earned more. I'm sure Houston made plenty of cash going to the NLCS game 7 and they've saved cash not saving Beltran. I think Clemens is a scumbag, but not for this reason.

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[Tazz]

Yea, he's acting like he won another Cy Young award or something.

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[torker]

He is goin to arbitration with Houston, Houston offering 13.5 million, and Clemens had the balls to go into the arbitration wanting 22 million dollars

the ultimate hired~gun

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[badorties]

clearly his best years are still ahead of him(said sarcasticly)



with his conditioning regime, and improved training, there's no reason he couldn't have a few more all-star seasons ...

i'm not saying he'll be as good as 15yrs ago, but he won the cy young last year ...



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[Snoogans]

yea and NO pitcher in baseball makes 22 million, no pitcher ever has. i can see goin after that, but i dont think i understand asking an arbitrator, who weighs heavily other players contracts, for that much

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[ChickenHawk]

what a pussy...

how can someone who's retired be so demanding?

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[FUNKMAN]

why not! the owners most likely will give in and the fans will pay for it 'in the end', and i mean 'in the rear end'....

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[Snoogans]

you are missing a key point. he isnt asking the team for it. he is asking an arbitrator.

basically he is sayin, i should get 22 mill, and actually expecting that someone will award him that, which is at least 4 more than any other pitching EVER, based on his stats last year. i know he was nasty, but i dont think he was 4 million dollars better than RJ. i dont even think he was better than RJ

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[FUNKMAN]

he isnt asking the team for it. he is asking an arbitrator


if the arbitrator rules in Rogers favor is the team obligated to pay it or could they trade him?

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[Snoogans]

they could trade him, but the salary is set for what the arb says, which WILL NOT be 22 mill, wont even be 20. he might get 18 just cause RJ did, but i dont even think he should get that

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[WindowSill]

Id give him 18 million....heres a guy, whos 42, yet so incredibly conditioned that he never gets injured and can still pitch better than most of the 27 year olds in the league. And its not like youre gonna give him a long term deal like the Yankees did the Big Unit, because thats just a recipe for disaster, its only for 1 year. Fuck it, give it to him...


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[Snoogans]

though its not one season, i wouldnt call randy's 2 year deal long term. its only 2 years, and he is 40, so it ends before he is clemens current age. 2 years ago, you bet your ass i woulda gave roger a 2 year deal.

look im not sayin he should get paid at the top, thats fine, i just find it a little cocky and arrogant to go ask for like 15-20% more then the next highest guy.

only the yankees know what thats like, and they forgot the feeling of that low a number a long time ago

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[FUNKMAN]

never get angry at the guy who asks for alot of money such as a raise even though you feel he doesn't deserve it

get angry at the guy who pays it

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[Snoogans]

if an arbitrator gives him 22 mill i trust arbitrators like i trust a boxing judge.

IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN PEOPLE

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[WindowSill]

A)Randy Johnson is 41, not 40.
B)The deal is through 2007...lets see, 2005, 2006, 2007....3 years, not 2...and it ends when hes 44 not 42....
C)Unlike Clemens who has no injury problems whatsoever, Johnson has an athritic knee and a bad back...


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This message was edited by WindowSill on 1-18-05 @ 6:48 PM

[Snoogans]

the yanks added 2 years, i forgot he had the 1 left first, my fault. i dont remember johnson missing really much time at all, maybe a couple starts, but i smoke alot so i could be wrong on thatthey all take roids anyway


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[Bulldogcakes]

I think Roger's (unwittingly) doing the Astros a favor. There's no arbirator on EARTH who will award a record setting contract to someone his age.

I just figured out how Roger came up w/22 mil
Astros offer 13.5mil (about maket value)
He made 5mil last year
Two years service at maket value=27 mil
subtract 5mil=22mil
Basically, he wants to get re-imbursed for being underpaid last year

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[Snoogans]

im ok with that, just after the clause where he gives back half his money if he lose 12 games


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[FUNKMAN]

Roger Clemens is insane


in the membrane and crazy like a fox

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[Iamnotatool]

Bulldog stole my thunder.

2 years 2 million, not a bad deal. Plus, he took a pay cut to play for the hometown Astros, partly because they were "cash strapped". Now Clemens sees them make a big run at Carlos Beltran (who is now a MET MOTHERFUCKERS!!!) and knows they have the dough to spend.

Can't blame him, even though I'm not a big fan of his.

They'll meet in the high teens before the arbitration. Houston won't chance going into arbitration with the face of their franchise.

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[WRESTLINGFAN]

I think Clemens and the Astros will agree to btwn 15-17 million

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[BoondockSaint]

They'll meet in the high teens before the arbitration. Houston won't chance going into arbitration with the face of their franchise.


That is what most likely will happen. The reason being that in baseball arbitration, unlike other arbitration, the arbitrator can only chose the players offer or the teams offer. He can not pick a number in the middle. It is set up this way to encourage an agreement before going to an arbitrator.



Once a team and a player have agreed to go to arbitration, each of them submits a salary figure for a one-year contract. The team and the player appear before a licensed member of the National Association of Arbitrators. Each side presents a case intended to convince the arbitrator that their salary figure is most appropriate. In general, this is done by demonstrating that the player is "comparable" to players receiving the amount of money being argued for. The choice of how to define "comparable" is often the difference in the cases. After the arbitrator has heard both cases, he chooses one of the two submitted figures as being the most appropriate. The player and team are bound to sign a contract for the next year at that figure. The arbitrator cannot choose any figure other than one of the two submitted


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[Def Dave in SC]

look im not sayin he should get paid at the top, thats fine, i just find it a little cocky and arrogant to go ask for like 15-20% more then the next highest guy.


Thats how you negotiate. Clemens, more likely his agent, knows that the 'Stros won't give him that contract. They will "talk him down" to maybe 17 or 18 mil which is probably what Roger really wants. So now management is happy that they were able to talk Roger's price down, and Roger is happy because he got what he wanted.

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[WindowSill]

i dont remember johnson missing really much time at all,


How about half the season he missed in 03 with the fucked knee?


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[Snoogans]

How about half the season he missed in 03 with the fucked knee?


i dont remember johnson missing really much time at all, maybe a couple starts, but i smoke alot so i could be wrong



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[Teenweek]

Figure it this way is 2 years 27 million for him sound better especially since he won a cy young and took them to the playoffs

[Hack89]

I dont think Rocket will stay more than one year, he was leaning toward retirement this year and this is after he won a Cy Young. I dont think hes gonna pitch past 43, athough hes more than capable of it.

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[WindowSill]

Meanwhile, younger, possibly better, AL Cy Young award winner only asks for 6.8 million (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1969972)

While the Twins are only offering only 5, whichis fucked up in its ownself...Id say he has to win but at the same time ,Eric Gagne lost his arbitration hearing last year after winning the NL Cy Young as a closer...


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[Kevin]

The only pitcher that i have seen live that was ever worth even close to 22mil was Pedro at his peak.

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This message was edited by Kevin on 1-19-05 @ 12:11 AM

[WindowSill]

I dont think ANY player...much less a pitcher is worth over 20 million dollars...I think 18 should be the cut off...MAYBE 19 for a guy like ARod or Pujols or Bonds...


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[Kevin]

what i mean window is that if you have to give it to someone it would be 97-2002 pedro.

Lumbergh Fucked Her.

[WindowSill]

I understand what you meant, and sure if any pitcher was ever deserving of a huge money contract it was old Pedro. And he has in fact been making the most money among pitchers for years now, raking in 17.5 million last year. What Im saying is, and I know its not gonna happen with teams like the Yankees, Mets, Dodger, Angels, etc. around, that teams should not give anyone at all over 18 million per year because there isnt a player that should really be paid that.


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[Snoogans]

if i was gonna give any pitcher 20 million, it woulda been Kofax, thats it

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[Iamnotatool]

Snoogs, Koufax lost his curveball years ago.

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[Snoogans]

yea but now without skin, i heard he's developed a whicked knuckler

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[WRESTLINGFAN]

Clemens is going to get 18 million

Clemens to pitch in 05 (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpNWZic251BF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwN0 aA--?slug=ap-astros-clemens&prov=ap&type=lgns)

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[WindowSill]

Well deserved...


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[Kevin]

I think Snoogs should now rename this thread. The Houston Astros Are Insane.

Say Somthing funny Mikey.

[Bulldogcakes]

I think Snoogs should now rename this thread. The Houston Astros Are Insane

How about "Roger Clemens is so insane the Astros just gave him an extra 5 mil"



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[TheGameHHH]

I nearly dropped dead from laughter when Clemens said he 'looked at the original offer, sat back and laughed at it'. These people have some nerve to laugh at $13 million. Of course, he's got a family to feed and I'm sure he was insulted by the lack of money he would receive.

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[torker]

that's crazy money

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[Kevin]

he actualy had the nerve to say he came back to mainly thank the fans for his support last year. WHAT? But if you look at it he deserved that Money. He made only 5 last year. He woulda made at least 13 14 if he went on the open market last year insted of signing with Hou for the home town discount.

Say Somthing funny Mikey.

[Crippler]

I hope David Eckstein (or whomever winds up leading off for St. Louis) drops down a bunt on the first regular season pitch he throws & Clemens slips while fielding it & tears his fucking quad right off of his kneecap. You know, but in a good way...best of luck, Rocket!

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[Snoogans]

im with crippler, and its not the astros, its the arbitrator who is insane, the astros dont have a choice

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[BoondockSaint]

im with crippler, and its not the astros, its the arbitrator who is insane, the astros dont have a choice


Why is it the arbitraitor?

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[Snoogans]

i thought i heard thats what he was awarded, but i see it didnt even get there, so then yea houston is dumb, the arb would not have given him that

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[BoondockSaint]

It could have been worse. The way it works now is the arb decides what Clemens is worth and then has to pick the closer of the two submissions. So if he thought Clemens was worth 18 mil he would have to award Clemens the 22mil not the 13.5 the Astro's submitted. I'm not sure the Astro's could take that chance.

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[Snoogans]

i woulda given him 230,000 if i was the arb

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[BoondockSaint]

Then he still would have gotten 13.5 mil. If I were Clemens and wanted to be a dick, I would have let it get to that. The worst I could do is 13.5 but I might get 22. I'd take that gamble.

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