Indiana vs Det 11/19 [Archive] - RonFez.net Messageboard

Snoogans

11-19-2004, 07:13 PM

at the end of the game, artest basically punched ben wallace with a 15 point lead and like 40 seconds. so they get into a brawl and it calmed a bit, and then it gets fucked up. i just see artest run into the crowd and punch someone in the face, then someone through beer at him, then some other pacer ran in and punched the guy in the side of the head.
they are sayin someone threw beer on artest while he was laying on the scorers table antagoniscally after the fight, and thats why he went in the crowd

beer or not, you cant be hitting fans, especially a second guy running in taking a huge flying swing, someone threw a chair, possibly a player

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http://snoogans194.blogspot.com/
GO SAWX!!!!!
The worst choke job in the history of sports Snoogans 1, Monitor 0

BoondockSaint

11-19-2004, 07:15 PM

I think he was trying to get suspended so he can go promote his album.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/liamsig.jpg

keithy_19

11-19-2004, 07:16 PM

I think he was trying to get suspended so he can go promote his album.

To show how bad ass he is.

http://64.177.177.182/katylina/keithy.gif

HBox

11-19-2004, 07:16 PM

That was fucking nuts. ESPNNEWS is covering this live. Apparently the police until now wouldn't let the Pistons leave so they could sort out everything. Looks like therr will eventually be arrests.

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Snoogans

11-19-2004, 07:17 PM

its so funny, anyone who has it turn on ESPNEWS. artest is just layin there and a plastic cup lands on his chest, he runs at a guy, right before he gets there you see the guy go OH SHIT and he hit him. then the onther guy threw beer and caught a running blindside haymaker

http://home.comcast.net/~rmfallon/RFnetSnoogs.jpg
http://snoogans194.blogspot.com/
GO SAWX!!!!!
The worst choke job in the history of sports Snoogans 1, Monitor 0

WRESTLINGFAN

11-19-2004, 07:29 PM

I think he was trying to get suspended so he can go promote his album.

How can anything compare to Shaq Fu?

FIRE SATHER!!!!!!!

Fallon

11-19-2004, 07:30 PM

That was crazy. Why did it have to happen on a Friday, now I have to wait until Monday to watch it on ATH, PTI and I,Max.

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newport king

11-19-2004, 07:38 PM

just put on espnnews they're making this sound like its completely the fan's fault. i havent seent he full video yet.

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Snoogans

11-19-2004, 07:39 PM

How can anything compare to Shaq Fu?

Do you want me to shoot it? NOOOO
Do you want me to pass it? NOOOOO
Do you want me to SLAM? YEAAAAAA

http://home.comcast.net/~rmfallon/RFnetSnoogs.jpg
http://snoogans194.blogspot.com/
GO SAWX!!!!!
The worst choke job in the history of sports Snoogans 1, Monitor 0

Snoogans

11-19-2004, 07:40 PM

just put on espnnews they're making this sound like its completely the fan's fault. i havent seent he full video yet.

the thing that started the fan interaction was a fan hitting artest with a cup, he then got up and rushed the guy. someone else threw beer on him, and stephen jackson came running in and just decked the guy who threw the second beer, then i get lost by the clutter

http://home.comcast.net/~rmfallon/RFnetSnoogs.jpg
http://snoogans194.blogspot.com/
GO SAWX!!!!!
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JPMNICK

11-19-2004, 07:44 PM

This is going to look great for the league. I just read an article on ESPN.com about how they are depending on Larry Bird, Magic, Kevin McHale and that generation try and resurect the league(again), but this time from a management role

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newport king

11-19-2004, 07:44 PM

just saw the vid. it looked like ben wallace had the fan's back. i fucking hate artest. i dont even like basketball much and the guy just bothers me. fucking punk. wallace would have killed him.

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HBox

11-19-2004, 07:45 PM

It wasn't totally the fans fault. It all started when someone threw a cup of beer that hit Artest in the face, but he has to compose himself. Instead, he rushes the stands and tackles a fan. And then Stephen Jackson follows him and just lands a fucking haymaker on some other guy. And then it all went nuts.

The fans who were really at fault were the ones who came onto the court later. They were actively looking to start shit right in front of the Pacers bench, and the were met with an ass kicking by a bunch of different Pacers, including one of the coaches. ESPN has video of a bunch of Pacers just taking shots at these two idiot fans.

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Snoogans

11-19-2004, 07:46 PM

is this video up online yet, can anyone find it to link, i cant

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newport king

11-19-2004, 07:48 PM

and through all of this rasheed wallace looked like the only person in the building that had any common sense.

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Snoogans

11-19-2004, 07:51 PM

it looked like the pacer "coach" in the suit that was stompin the on court fans was actually reggie miller, who is in street clothes

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GO SAWX!!!!!
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BoondockSaint

11-19-2004, 07:52 PM

No video yet but ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/photos?gameId=241119008) has pics.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/liamsig.jpg

newport king

11-19-2004, 07:56 PM

hly shit they showed the aftermath when they were trying to get off the floor, its alot worse than what i've seen on espn news.

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Snoogans

11-19-2004, 07:57 PM

they showed that too on ESPN, artest was basically umbrellaed (sp) by 3 guys and i saw like 90 cups and bottles go flyin

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http://snoogans194.blogspot.com/
GO SAWX!!!!!
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HBox

11-19-2004, 07:58 PM

Snoogans, you must be talking about another incident because the guy in the suit I saw was way too stocky to be Reggie Miller.

The more I see the more I think it is the fan's fault. One of the Pacers went in was literally just trying to pull Stephen Jackson out of the stands by his jersey and he gets thanked by a couple of sucker punches to the back of the head.

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This message was edited by HBox on 11-20-04 @ 12:02 AM

Snoogans

11-19-2004, 08:00 PM

i dont know for sure, too much shit goin on, i know i saw reggie in a suit on the court though

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http://snoogans194.blogspot.com/
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Snoogans

11-19-2004, 08:02 PM

damn J Oneil fuckin layed out that fan on the court
it was like a johnny cage sliding punch right to his mouth.
I have to say im impressed with one aspect of the indian pacers. at least they punch like men, not like alonzo bitch slap mourning and larry hair pull johnson goin at it

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http://snoogans194.blogspot.com/
GO SAWX!!!!!
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newport king

11-19-2004, 08:03 PM

tie domi would have whipped every one of those fans asses.

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newport king

11-19-2004, 08:05 PM

Snoogans

11-19-2004, 08:05 PM

yea, but still, everyone of those fans woulda whipped alonzo mournings ass. at least these were punches. oneil crushed that guy and jackson's right hook woulda made bernard hopkins proud

http://home.comcast.net/~rmfallon/RFnetSnoogs.jpg
http://snoogans194.blogspot.com/
GO SAWX!!!!!
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HBox

11-19-2004, 08:06 PM

Tie Domi would start decapitating people with his skates if he were ever involved in something like this, that fucking scumbag psychopath.

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Snoogans

11-19-2004, 08:07 PM

tie domi sucks, tony twist would whoop his fuckin ass

http://home.comcast.net/~rmfallon/RFnetSnoogs.jpg
http://snoogans194.blogspot.com/
GO SAWX!!!!!
The worst choke job in the history of sports Snoogans 1, Monitor 0

HBox

11-19-2004, 08:07 PM

wow whoever the detroit fan was that was on the court squaring up with artest...YOU GOT KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT!!! great suckerpunch by jermaine o'neal. artest really is a punk i dont think i saw him throw a single punch.

Artest threw a couple of punches at that guy before O'Neal came flying in.

Funniest/Saddest moment of the mess: That little kid who is sitting there crying in the middle of the whole thing.

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This message was edited by HBox on 11-20-04 @ 12:11 AM

Snoogans

11-19-2004, 08:11 PM

the only one who is a bitch is jones. that guy rabbit punched him, so he turned around and coulda knocked him right out, and instead just ducked and sat down and rolled away like some sissy ass bitch

http://home.comcast.net/~rmfallon/RFnetSnoogs.jpg
http://snoogans194.blogspot.com/
GO SAWX!!!!!
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newport king

11-19-2004, 08:13 PM

look i'm not really a basketball fan, but whoever this white dude is on espn news is really going overboard and place ALL the blame on the fans and making excuses for the players. i'm sure they got a call from the league to do some damage control. at least i heard steven a. smith say the players were wrong for going up there to begin with.

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This message was edited by newport king on 11-20-04 @ 12:15 AM

Snoogans

11-19-2004, 08:14 PM

tim legler, what does he know, he played for washington

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El Mudo

11-19-2004, 08:16 PM

Those fans were assholes....buying a ticket to a basketball game doesn't give you the right to be a dickhead....idiots...

The best part IMO was when the Pacers were going to their lockerroom, and Artest grabbed the janitor's dustpan and was waving it around menacingly...

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El Mudo

11-19-2004, 08:18 PM

tim legler, what does he know, he played for washington

And how many games did you play in the NBA again?

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newport king

11-19-2004, 08:18 PM

in fairness playing for washington is like playing for a varsity team.

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mothershucker

11-19-2004, 08:20 PM

at the end of the game, artest basically punched ben wallace with a 15 point lead and like 40 seconds.

What? Artest went up to block a shot a little hard, but he did not throw a punch. Wallace was the A hole who started the whole thing by being a bitch and choking Artest for fouling him.

As for the brawl, that was some funny shit. Did you see the red headed kid Artest went after? He did not throw a beer (he still had his soda in his hand) but was jumping up and down laughing, that is until Artest hit him and flung him. The way the kids emotion goes from joy to terror in half a second is one of the funniest things I have ever seen.

And how about those two fat guys who came on the court and just got blasted?

The NBA is faaaaaaaaantastic.......

I shucked it, and I shucked it, and I shucked it, i'm quite the mother shucker

Snoogans

11-19-2004, 08:21 PM

And how many games did you play in the NBA again?

thats all height man, if i was legler's size, i guarentee id whip his candy ass. i dont think i ever saw him step inside the 3 point line

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http://snoogans194.blogspot.com/
GO SAWX!!!!!
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Snoogans

11-19-2004, 08:22 PM

What? Artest went up to block a shot a little hard, but he did not throw a punch. Wallace was the A hole who started the whole thing by being a bitch and choking Artest for fouling him.

if you see the baseline angle, artest tried for the ball/arm with his left hand, but took kinda a choppin smack/punch to wallace's side with his other hand and thats what knocked wallace foward, and wallace didnt choke anyone, choking involves cutting off air, he just pushed him by the throat and lower face cause he has bad aim

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GO SAWX!!!!!
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This message was edited by Snoogans on 11-20-04 @ 12:23 AM

TheGameHHH

11-19-2004, 09:34 PM

I'm watching Sportscenter now break down the incident minute by minute. That was absolutly crazy. One NBA player (not a Piston or Pacer) said, "man, there are gonna be some lawsuits. You dont think people want some of that NBA money." The dude hit it right on the head there. There were battery's commited left and right. The repercusions from this will be fun to watch.

At least somebody from G-unit wasn't involved in this one.
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This message was edited by TheGameHHH on 11-20-04 @ 1:36 AM

JPMNICK

11-19-2004, 09:44 PM

that shit went from NBA millionares to street ball GTA San Andreas gang beating in about 2 seconds.

i think the best part was when that guy who looked liek Fat Joe Tried to step up, got knocked down, gets back up just to catch a flying fist in his face. awesome

those guys are 6'6" and all muscle. what the hell does a fan think he is going to do?

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fluffernutter

11-19-2004, 10:22 PM

Funniest/Saddest moment of the mess: That little kid who is sitting there crying in the middle of the whole thing.

Just reading that impacts how far sports has really gotten away from the kids. Or so it seems at least.

Yeah, fun to watch and nice to see some hockey this season at least. In reality though it really is a shame that the fans can't behave any better and the players can't show restraint. Sure, if someone were to throw a beer at me, I probably would have done the same thing and went after him. Even though it looked as if Artest was just egging the fans on by lying down on the scoring table. That should have warranted a fine alone. Don't these players have a certain amount of responsibility and professionalism to be able to hold back in a situation like this? Even with the Rangers/A's situation back in September, sure, you are being hassled by the fans, hold back a little bit.

EDIT 2:34 AM: Damn, I just watched all of the footage and the SC commentary and analysis and those fans are fucking animals. And I thought Philly was tough. Holy SHIT! That was just scary and those little kids who were just there to see a basketball game I sure hopoe they are not scarred for life from this. Some scary stuff.

There's not going to be barriers put up between fans and players now is there?

And....I'm anticipating the SportCenter Top 10 Brawls. I remember hearing about how the Flyers of the early 70's went into the stands in Vancouver. Remember when the Canadiens were leaving the Boston Garden ice THROUGH the Bruins bench and a melee started? Remember the Canadiens/Flyers 1987 Playoff pre-game brawl where Chris Chelios skated into Flyers territory during warm-ups?

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Just when you think it can't get any worse, U2 puts out another album. Terrible.

This message was edited by fluffernutter on 11-20-04 @ 2:38 AM

JPMNICK

11-19-2004, 10:31 PM

i liked at the rangers game when the hockey player took the fan's shoes off and beat him with it

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fluffernutter

11-19-2004, 10:46 PM

Found this Fan Violence history on CNNSI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/news/2002/09/19/fan_violence/)

http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=fluffernutter

Just when you think it can't get any worse, U2 puts out another album. Terrible.

Teenweek

11-20-2004, 05:23 AM

Artest video (http://home.comcast.net/~superfx/stuff/artest.avi)

mothershucker

11-20-2004, 06:39 AM

Damn, I just watched all of the footage and the SC commentary and analysis and those fans are fucking animals.

I sure as hell am not a fan of Detroit or their fans, but this is all on Artest. I can not believe the announcers saying "the fans escalated this". O.K., whats worse. Throwing a 4/5 empty beer plastic cup at a player....or.... a player climbing into the stands and throwing haymakers at the anyone laughing (the red headed kid still had his soda in his hand, he did not throw the beer)? I am not defending the guy who threw the beer. That is wrong. Heckle all you want, but sticks and stones....... The problem here is Artest is a pussy! Wallace gives him a throat chop and he just lays down. Wallace throws a towel at him, he just lays down. Fan hits him with empty plastic cup, let me find the smallest guy in the stands and wail on him.

I shucked it, and I shucked it, and I shucked it, i'm quite the mother shucker

walking joint

11-20-2004, 06:52 AM

Wallace started all the crap...it was a hard foul, but he over reacted to it and continued to pursue it even as Artest laid on the scorers table. it then turned real ugly. Artest was totally wrong to go after the guy who threw the cup, but from that point on i blame the fans. a few grabbed Artest and others tried to get in cheap shots as he was held and the guy from about a foot away threw his drink in his face. he was met by a punch to the face by Jackson. then other fans came to the area and were cheap shotting some of the players who were just trying to break things up. and even after things settled down a little with the players back on the court, the fans came onto the court...and at that point you deserve what you get. the worst part to me is seeing the shot of the little kid crying.

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shocked60

11-20-2004, 07:06 AM

Two things that should never happen at a professional sports event:

Fans throwing stuff onto the court,

Players running into the stands to attack fans.

It's that simple.

Both sides were at fault, but IMHO, the players are more at fault. You're in someone else's house where you are getting heckled all the time anyway so suck it up and play, you don't know who threw the beer so you just attack any fan at random??? Even if he was laughing does that make it right? Then you punch a fat-ass fan who is on the court. Ok, he shouldn't be there, but any lawyer will tell you if you throw the first punch, you're at fault. All the fat-ass was doing was standing there yelling and waving his fists. How is that a threat to a hulking basketball player? These guys all lost their tempers and instead of doing the sportsmanlike thing and walking off the court, they escalated it into a brawl. It's just another verification that many of these guys are spoiled-ass multi-millionaires who think they deserve things to go their way all the time. Buncha rich thugs is what they are.

And I like to watch basketball myself, but I can't stand the way it's degraded into "what's in it for me" sport. This game used to be about team work and brilliant playmaking. Now it's about jack asses getting their highlight of the day and recording their cd's.

Just plain stupid.

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This message was edited by shocked60 on 11-20-04 @ 11:07 AM

Johnny Fontane

11-20-2004, 07:22 AM

http://digilander.libero.it/paolocupra/IJefferson/tom.jpg

I think Ron Artest is a jive turkey.

Hottub

11-20-2004, 07:23 AM

Holy Shit!!

I'm a little late seeing the video, but DAMN...

Was this game played in an airplane hanger in Santa Monica?? :eg:

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42nd-delay

11-20-2004, 08:12 AM

ESPN keeps ending their recap of the fight with the picture of the kid crying. I guess this is supposed to be some kind of "innocence lost" type of thing, but, give me a break... at this point, the NBA has gone so far in the wrong direction (before the fight) that it's probably better if kids don't watch it and don't spend hundreds of dollars buying NBA crap.

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Tenbatsuzen

11-20-2004, 08:48 AM

I think that Fat kid trying to be tough on the court and him getting laid out is one of my favorite sports moments ever.

YOU ARE A FAT, SHORT, WHITE KID. THIS IS A LARGE BLACK MAN, WHO WORKS OUT ON A REGULAR BASIS. If you can't do the math in this situation, you deserve to get your ass kicked.

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Teenweek

11-20-2004, 08:50 AM

Drudge report has the entire thing. ^ 1/2 minutes long.

Snoogans

11-20-2004, 09:39 AM

I sure as hell am not a fan of Detroit or their fans, but this is all on Artest. I can not believe the announcers saying "the fans escalated this". O.K., whats worse. Throwing a 4/5 empty beer plastic cup at a player....or....

here is my arguement to that. assume you are sitting on a bench at a park, and somebody throws a bottle of beer at you. Dont try to tell me you wouldnt go kick his ass. If you would let a bottle hit you and NOT react, i say you are a pussy. This was ugly, and players should never go in the crowd, but fans arent allowed to throw anything onto or walk onto the court.
Artest is an asshole, but come on, he was already HEATED from the on court thing. ANYONE i know woulda done exactly what Artest did, and because he did that, next time a fan thinks about throwing whats in his hand, he is gonna think of the guy he is lookin at running up to him and punching him in the mouth. Maybe then the fan will be smart enough NOT TO THROW IT.

Blame falls on everyone, but dont try to tell me anyo man in that situation wouldnt have rushed someone who threw that at them

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A.J.

11-20-2004, 10:45 AM

And Terrell Owens and ABC breathe a sigh of relief...

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extracheese

11-20-2004, 10:57 AM

mikeyboy

11-20-2004, 10:58 AM

2 riots in 1 week? Geez you people are so violent and disorderly. Why such animalistic behavior? I think classification of the black man needs to be revised. Are they truly human or are they between the stage of human and animal? Are they able to know right from wrong? Why do they act on such impulse? Why is violence always the answer?

WTF? This kind of racist bullshit isn't permitted on the board. Check the new FAQ.

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Snoogans

11-20-2004, 11:01 AM

what was the other riot?

first off this riot involved just as many white people, and 2, if you are reffering to the steelers game, it was a 1 on 1 fight over spitting, who cares, you never been in a fight?

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walking joint

11-20-2004, 11:05 AM

i'm guessing he means the VIBE awards

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thanks for the sig SatCam...and thanks for bringing it back Furie

BoondockSaint

11-20-2004, 11:05 AM

Check the new FAQ.

Jeez, will the plugs ever end?

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Snoogans

11-20-2004, 11:06 AM

oh yea the vibe awards, i dont see that as a race thing either. someone punched dre and they mauled and stabbed him. i dont think it was racial, more like a thug thing, same shit mobsters woulda done if you walked up and punched there boy

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GO SAWX!!!!!
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extracheese

11-20-2004, 11:07 AM

yes i meant the vibe awards, and i didnt mean to post it as "racist" bs but a real discussion on what i perceive as a preponderance of black violence.
If its too thought provoking and offensive i will edit it or remove it.

Snoogans

11-20-2004, 11:08 AM

BoondockSaint

11-20-2004, 11:09 AM

NEW YORK -- The NBA suspended Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson of Indiana and Ben Wallace of Detroit on Saturday for taking part in one of the ugliest brawls in U.S. sports history. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1927663)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/liamsig.jpg

Snoogans

11-20-2004, 11:11 AM

hahahaha, there was just an onfield brawl in the syracuse vs south carolina game

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Justice4all

11-20-2004, 11:14 AM

Could not have happened to a nicer ass-wipe.
I detest Artist...or however you fucking spell his name.
Worthless piece of shit that he is.
I was jumping for joy when I saw those guys hold his arms back and he got his ass beat in.

Too bad he was not at the Vibe awards...he could have got beaten twice in one week.

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Snoogans

11-20-2004, 11:15 AM

the guy in the crowd throwing the cup was Shug Knight, and this was all to get PR for the upcomming CD

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Teenweek

11-20-2004, 11:20 AM

ITS NOT BLACK VIOLENCE IDIOT

it were situations that woulda ended that way regardless of what color the people involved were. if someone threw a beer at me, especially if i was already mad, i woulda done the same shit. if you punch one of my friends in the face, im gonna go punch you. its not cause they were black

Please tell me the last mostly white awards show, where a group of people wanted to kill a person receiving an award. This is not racist. This stuff happens in the black community which mostly consist of thug gangsta rappers (excluding Eminem all Black)and thug basketball players (Never saw Bird or John Stockton go after a fan) who are predominately black.

Black on Black crime in this country outnumbers every other scenario and any combination of white, black, latino).

I am not just blaming the players. I am blaming lack of security and the animals in the stands all of whom should be prosecuted and jailed for either starting or being involved in a riot.

One more thing, it's been said before, but if Terrell Owens was Brett favre or Peyton manning it would not have been as big a deal.

Mike Teacher

11-20-2004, 12:00 PM

Please tell me the last mostly white awards show, where a group of people wanted to kill a person receiving an award.

When Van Halen w/DLR Re-United for 5 minutes at the MTV Awards. Everyone in the band wanted to kill Dave.

Actually; wasnt there a feud with Axl or someone and something suckered punched someone else backstage? Cant remember.

I admit this all pales in comparison to the Geraldo Nose-Bust Riot-like Video of This awards.

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HBox

11-20-2004, 12:25 PM

I don't know how this got into a discussion of black on black crime. it has nothing to do with this. If I'm not mistaken, 99% of the idiots in the stands were white. The guy who threw the beer was white. The guy throwing sucker punches was white. The two idiots who went on the floor to fight Artest were white. The people in the stands throwing shit at the Pacers as they left the floor were 99% white.

And the two sports who have the most on-field fighting going on is hockey and baseball, and they're the the only two white dominated major sports left. IMAGINE THAT! Hell, hockey is the sport where most of the player fan shit has happened, where someone was almost killed in an on-ice fight, where fights are still allowed and celebrated. Anyone remember Todd Bertuzzi? And I can count on my fingers the number of black players in hockey right now.

So please spare us your stupid racist stereotypes.

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morecowbell11

11-20-2004, 12:38 PM

baseball is white dominated?

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HBox

11-20-2004, 01:05 PM

There are a lot more whites in baseball than blacks, unless you just want to lump together all the minorities and call them "blacks."

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morecowbell11

11-20-2004, 01:30 PM

There are a lot more whites in baseball than blacks, unless you just want to lump together all the minorities and call them "blacks."

well thats a pretty far leap from saying its a white dominated sport. and where are your statistics to back this up or are you just making them up.

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mikeyboy

11-20-2004, 01:32 PM

There are a lot more whites in baseball than the minorities and call them "blacks."
blacks, unless you just want to lump together all

well thats a pretty far leap from saying its a white dominated sport. and where are your statistics to back this up or are you just making them up.

You're nitpicking

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morecowbell11

11-20-2004, 01:47 PM

You're nitpicking

thanks mom. obviously this thread has spun in to a larger issue which is "are there differences between races." i have a degree in biology and study anatomy everyday. the answer is yes, there are distinct anatomical differences between races. its a fact that one difference in studying skeletal structure is that if someones genealogy is traced back to africa they tend to have a slight difference in the angle of the hip articulation then with someone whos ancestry is traced back to europe. im not saying one race is better or worse than any other all im saying is that there are more differences than just skin color. its the height of naiveity to think that the only thing that evolved differently in humans is the color of their skin. why would this trait and only this trait evolve in making a species successful. did being succesful in industrialized societies mean being more cerebral while being succesful in a hunting and gathering society meant being more athletic. these are all questions that are very pertinent but in todays politically correct world common sence is ignored with a blanket statement," we are all the same" whats wrong with being different in more ways and celebrating that

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shocked60

11-20-2004, 01:58 PM

It's not a white or black thing.

It's a lack of civility and the rise of vulgarity in our society as a whole.

It's the whole "he did this so I have the right to do that" argument.

So I'm a "pussy" if I don't fight back because some one threw a beer at me?

Whatever happened to "I'm a better man if I don't stoop to that loser's level"?

It seems everyone is to blame for this brawl - the players and the fans, but the players could have stopped it from going any further by just leaving the court. Instead, those multi-millionaire spoiled brats had to exacerbate the situation.

Are we all forgetting this started because of a flagrant foul and a player's reaction to that foul???

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This message was edited by shocked60 on 11-20-04 @ 5:59 PM

shocked60

11-20-2004, 02:06 PM

"I didn't start it. I just played the game," Wallace said Saturday before learning of his suspension.

And now I'm gonna take my ball and go home.

"This demonstrates why our players must not enter the stands, whatever the provocation or poisonous behavior of people attending the games," Stern said in his statement.

Smartest thing he's said in a very, very long time.

When I'm watching my team in my house, I love to verbally abuse the other players (racism never entered the abuse, it was usually something about his play). It's all part of the fun of watching the game, getting to carry on like an idiot.

I would agree that throwing things at rival players steps over the line, though.

But attacking people in the stands who had nothing to do with it? For laughing at you?

That's pretty childish.

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newport king

11-20-2004, 02:11 PM

YOU ARE A FAT, SHORT, WHITE KID.

I'm pretty sure the guy on the floor was puerto rican.

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HBox

11-20-2004, 02:15 PM

obviously this thread has spun in to a larger issue which is "are there differences between races."

No, it spun off into some people saying that blacks are more violent than everyone else. If you want to give some biological evidence supporting that, go ahead. Everything you posted has nothing to do with what I was trying to say. If you agree or disagree with what they were saying just say it. It sounds to me like you're pussyfooting around it. Nobody here said that everyone was the same in every way.

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Hottub

11-20-2004, 02:45 PM

Wow, this got heated real fast. Sorry I brought up the Vibe reference. Time to move this Bitch to the Politics forum!!

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mikeyboy

11-20-2004, 02:46 PM

or Wrestling

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Hottub

11-20-2004, 02:57 PM

or Wrestling

What??? There's a wrestling forum???

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DJEvelEd

11-20-2004, 03:05 PM

I haven't seen it yet (damn dialup),
but could some of these people have been paid off so that Artest could get his friggin "month off to promote his record"? How hard would it be to pay some ghetto-rats to WILEOUT?

HOW MUCH?

I guess however much the record sells...

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morecowbell11

11-20-2004, 03:24 PM

obviously this thread has spun in to a larger issue which is "are there differences between races."

No, it spun off into some people saying that blacks are more violent than everyone else

i guess ill have to type more slowly for hbox. if your insinuating that i think blacks are more violent than other races my answers to you is, i dont know. im certainty not qualified to give an answer to that question. my point was that there is room for exploration. there was a study done on middle eastern people, more specifically palestinians. the purpose of this study was to see what effect poverty has on terrorism. the finding of this study was poverty doesn't inspire terrorism but just the opposite, terrorism inspires poverty. if you can fully understand that it has some pretty profound implications. now can this theory be applied to american societies. does living in a ghetto inspire violent behavior or does violent behavior inspire neighborhoods to become ghettos. again, i dont have the answers but i do think it creates questions

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mikeyboy

11-20-2004, 03:33 PM

i guess ill have to type more slowly for hbox.

Don't be an ass. He wasn't referring to you.

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HBox

11-20-2004, 03:44 PM

if your insinuating that i think blacks are more violent than other races my answers to you is, i dont know.

I clearly did not. In fact, I asked you to state your position. You've spent a lot of time trying to disprove points nobody made in the first place.

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Snoogans

11-20-2004, 04:11 PM

Please tell me the last mostly white awards show, where a group of people wanted to kill a person receiving an award. This is not racist. This stuff happens in the black community which mostly consist of thug gangsta rappers (excluding Eminem all Black)and thug basketball players (Never saw Bird or John Stockton go after a fan) who are predominately black.

i also never saw bird or stockton get hit in the face with a beer bottle either

like i said, ANYONE, white, black, spanish, fuckin Eskimos woulda reacted the same way. its not cause there black.
you think if someone through a beer at bill lambeir, they woulda walked out of the arena, FUCK NO

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Snoogans

11-20-2004, 05:07 PM

they are still showing this every little bit on ESPNEWS for anyone LIVING UNDER A ROCK

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mothershucker

11-20-2004, 05:20 PM

get hit in the face with a beer bottle either

I am guessing you have yet to see the video or are a blind man. It was a plastic cup, which, after seing it 75 times, I can tell was 4/5 empty as there was no or little splash. If you think that allows a multimillionaire to go into the crowd and find the skiniest kid and punch him in the face, well, whatever.

YOU ARE A FAT, SHORT, WHITE KID

This is not only racist, but degrading to the horizonaly and caloricly challenged.

I shucked it, and I shucked it, and I shucked it, i'm quite the mother shucker

Snoogans

11-20-2004, 05:21 PM

whatever, same shit, if you ever go to a fuckin game, the beer bottles are the same plastic as the cup, i didnt mean a real beer bottle, arenas arent THAT stupid

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SatCam

11-20-2004, 06:21 PM

Just watched the video and that is fucking crazy. It just didn't stop. The security/police couldn't control anything.

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FUNKMAN

11-20-2004, 07:18 PM

The security/police couldn't control anything.

they should've brought in the Dream Police!

i saw all the film... i hate to say it but Artest shouldn't have went into the stands. No doubt in my mind that whoever threw the cup should have gotten a beaten BUT (there is always that BUT)
the player will always seem to lose in the end 'legally'

is there enough done to monitor the crowd and catch these fans and are there severe enough punishments?

there was not enough security to control the situation but then again they never expected what happened 'but' should they always be prepared for something like this? then they'd have to pay higher security dollars and most likely the price of tickets will go up

Artest, O'Neil, or the coach should not be charged with anything for punching the fans who came onto the court. To me that was self-defense.

It just goes to show you that these ball players are human beings and have emotions like anyone else. For me they are extremely overpaid but i also believe if the Team is making that sum of money then the players should get a good share of it. And it seems the fan doesn't mind paying through the nose so "what are you gonna do hah"?

I hope to see criminal charges against the guy who was holding and trying to punch Artest in the head and the big black dude who was sucker punching the other Pacer player who went into the stands as a peacemaker

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fluffernutter

11-20-2004, 07:39 PM

And Terrell Owens and ABC breathe a sigh of relief...

Same here. As there has been little to no conversqtion this week on WIP about the Eagles scoring 49 on Dallas IN Dallas or the upcoming Redskins game. Towelgate has been insane up until last night as the Detroit Tussle began.

Another thing that I have to wonder even more is when do beer sales stop at an NBA game? I know baseball is at the 7th Inning Stretch (correct me if I am wrong). What are the NFL's or NHL's beer policy?

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Snoogans

11-20-2004, 07:40 PM

some places half time, some places third quarter, its never gonna stop cause its the biggest profit % arenas have

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TheMojoPin

11-20-2004, 08:10 PM

If its too thought provoking and offensive i will edit it or remove it.

"Too thought provoking?"

Right.

If you can't tell the HUGE difference between saying "blacks tend to be more violent" (Which I ASSUME was your backasswards "point" in all this) and declaring that blacks are possibly sub-human because of a fight at a hip-hop awards show and a basketball game, well, you've got some issues.

Or did you forget posting THIS:

Geez you people are so violent and disorderly. Why such animalistic behavior? I think classification of the black man needs to be revised. Are they truly human or are they between the stage of human and animal? Are they able to know right from wrong? Why do they act on such impulse? Why is violence always the answer?

Hmmm, fight breaks out a hip-hop awards show. No shocker there...yet the automatic assumption of so many people isn't, "hey, rappers start a lot of shit"...it's, "ah-HAH! I KNEW black people as a whole were violent!"

It's a stupid mentality.

if you can fully understand that it has some pretty profound implications. now can this theory be applied to american societies. does living in a ghetto inspire violent behavior or does violent behavior inspire neighborhoods to become ghettos.

This is barely even a theory. Poor people tend to end up as criminals more than middle class or "wealthy" people...isn't that just common sense? White, black, Latino, whatever...you grow up in a shitty neighborhood and a poor area with a poor family, your chances of ending up in jail are astronomically high, and the chance of you staying poor the rest of your life is almost assured. Statistically speaking, yes, poor blacks tend to trend more as convicted criminals...but that doesn't get the other races "off the hook."

Let me put it this way...me being stuck in a shitty, poor, white neighborhood is only SLIGHTLY less horrible than me being stuck in a shitty, poor, black neighborhood.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 11-21-04 @ 12:18 AM

Mike Teacher

11-20-2004, 08:57 PM

thanks mom. obviously this thread has spun in to a larger issue which is "are there differences between races." i have a degree in biology and study anatomy everyday. the answer is yes, there are distinct anatomical differences between races.

these are all questions that are very pertinent but in todays politically correct world common sence is ignored with a blanket statement," we are all the same"

Well, the questions are based on anachronism, and the iconography of several myths.

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Justice4all

11-20-2004, 11:51 PM

Basketball is the only sport...aside from golf...where fan accessability to the players is easiest.
Hockey you have glass seperating them and the players.
Football you have a hell of a drop onto the field from the stands and by the time you get to the player you have 100 security guards up your ass.

Baseball has some acessability, but after what happened in Chicago a few years ago fat chance of anything happening on that field (or any field)

There is blame to go ALL around here. I think Artest is an asshole for his all around attitude. Was I happy to see him get his ass pummelled? Yes. Do I think he was the ONLY asshole in this whole mess? HELL NO! His fellow teamate (who I do not know his name since I do not watch Basektball) was even MORE involved. He was right behind Artest shoving and punching the fans.
Artest is a me me me kind of player. All about himself. When I saw him go up tot he fan who was on the court and just wind up and punch him when the fan was more then 3 steps away from him to start out with...make me sick.

This is not a BLACK thing or a WHITE thing...this is about people who think they have the right to abuse the players because they bought the ticket.
And it is about players who think they having beer spilled on them justifies a "I need to protect myself" action
Blah blah blah...if i had to sucker punch every guy who ever spilled beer on me then the bar down the street from me would be on my shit list half the time.
Give me a break.
The people have no excuse for what they did. If it was fan vs. fan then I would just shrug my shoulders and say..."Oh well...Darwin reigns once again"
But this is actually a very different issue.

I heard a comment from one of the NBA players on ESPN tonight. He said the NBA should also police the fans who are unruly and a hazard to the players and other fans around them. He said that the NBA would fine any players who reacted in any way to the fans. Even with a gesture. But the fans should get away with throwing things?
I think he was right.
The NFL has policies about that (remember the ice-balls in Giants Stadium against the Chargers?) so why not the NBA?

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TheMojoPin

11-21-2004, 07:45 AM

Baseball has some acessability, but after what happened in Chicago a few years ago fat chance of anything happening on that field (or any field)

A few years ago? Were you talking about the infamous "disco inferno?" Because that was over 20 years ago.

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JerryTaker

11-21-2004, 08:09 AM

I think he meant the Ron Gamboa incident

 
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WRESTLINGFAN

11-21-2004, 10:41 AM

Think of that melee as the vibe awards for sports

FIRE SATHER!!!!!!!

TheMojoPin

11-21-2004, 10:49 AM

I think he meant the Ron Gamboa incident

Sox, right?

No wonder nobody seems to give a damn.

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HBox

11-21-2004, 02:00 PM

ESPN.com is saying that Artest is suspended for the year, Stephen Jackson 30 games, Jermaine O'Neal 25, Ben Wallace 6 and Anthony Johnson 5.

I think they overreacted with Artest and O'Neal.

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Snoogans

11-21-2004, 02:17 PM

i think thats wrong, the report i hear in multiple places was jackson oneal 20, artest 30, wallace 5 and thats all i heard

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HBox

11-21-2004, 02:19 PM

Here's the link. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1928540)

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Snoogans

11-21-2004, 02:22 PM

until further notice, i gotta go with ESPN's report, they are usually onpoint more than others

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HBox

11-21-2004, 02:25 PM

That is ESPN's report I linked to. Turn on ESPNNEWS. It says "Artest suspended for rest of season" in the bottom right hand corner.

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Snoogans

11-21-2004, 02:28 PM

yea i was agreeing with you HBox, im not blind, i was aware the site i was reading

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HBox

11-21-2004, 02:30 PM

Oh, shit. There goes my favorite poster status.

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Snoogans

11-21-2004, 02:33 PM

you lost that when you *gasp* mentioned homosexuals in a political forum, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS RELEVANT....sorry im still pissed at those republican idiots for that one

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Snoogans

11-21-2004, 02:36 PM

oh yea, i almost forgot

i think these are kinda harsh. granted, you have to come down somewhat hard cause you cant go into the stands, but i woulda given some break for the reason why, being i woulda done the same shit.

also, these suspensions end any chance indiana had at doin anything this season, they may as well just sell everyone to make the move to brooklyn cheaper....oh

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HBox

11-21-2004, 02:41 PM

Here's the lesson to NBA fans: When rival teams come to visit your favorite team, go to the game and throw shit at the other team's best player and hope they go ape shit. RESULT: One less good team to worry about.

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Snoogans

11-21-2004, 02:43 PM

i didnt even think of that, so much for sending a message to fans, thats a great fuckin point HBox, you've remeemed yourself

but seriously, the only way no is if these fans get jail time, cause otherwise, this is gonna happen more just for that reason

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extracheese

11-21-2004, 02:49 PM

Ron Artest was suspended for the remainder of the season.
Indiana's Stephen Jackson was suspended for 30 games and Jermaine O'Neal for 25. Detroit's Ben Wallace -- whose shove of Artest after a foul led to the 5-minute fracas -- drew a six-game ban, while Pacers guard Anthony Johnson got five games.

extracheese

11-21-2004, 02:49 PM

Snoogans

11-21-2004, 02:50 PM

way to be on top of things cheese

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HBox

11-21-2004, 02:53 PM

In other breaking news, The Savior, Jesus, is born! Amen, hallelujah, hallelujah!

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Snoogans

11-21-2004, 02:56 PM

this just in, Eli Manning is the starter for the giants this week

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Heavy

11-21-2004, 03:07 PM

It was Artest 30, the other two 20, and Wallace 10. Thats the first report from the Detriot TV station. Fran reported that instantly this morning. Within 15 minutes the NBA caled him and the detriot station and said its false, thay aint decided shit yet. That couldve changed in the last 8 hours though. Actually 6pm was when they were gonna make the announcement before the Pistons tip off tonight.

On topic I'll say its a total disgrace if Artest is allowed to play before next season. The same thing goes for the other asshole in the stands. That dude that knocked the shit out of the fan on the court needs a hefty one too but i dont know whatelse he did. Several points:

1) There is noway to justify going into the stands for a player. Theres noway to justify going into the stands with the sole intention of beating the shit of of a fan. And yeah, thes noway to justify 2 players doing it either

2) The self defense claim is totally moronic. He was NOT in ANY danger.

3) Hes laying on his back. He has noway of knowing who threw (looked to me like it was tossed from a short distance since it was still full of beer or whatever) this cup at him. To me it seems like the black girl in the pink shirt you see as soon as he gets up is the one that did it. Shes already yelling and pointing at him when he gets up and she was real close. He got up and saw this guy laughing his ass off at HIS expense and thats too much for thug ass gangstas ego to handle so hes gonna beat some ass.

4) He's got no way of knowing if theres little kids in those seats or elderly peeps that easily couldve been fucked up bad without much contact.

5) Let me break down the on court fights. First off if 12 basketball players are in the stands fighting with fans and youre one of those fans you might not feel out of line by getting the fuck out of there and the court wouldnt be off limits at that point. You see this guy running and he and Artest kinda just see eachother at the same time and after a second long stare down Artest hauls off on him. The guy didnt "shake his fists" or charge him or do anything to provoke getting punched. Now at this point the guy that soon after got knocked the fuck out ran at Artest and they dissapear from the camera. the next view we have of him is standing with the other guy, obviously after having been seperated from Artest, not doing shit but standing, and he gets knocked the fuck out. I can concede its possible the knockee saw him tackle Artest and thought he might do something else, but we know he just wanted to knock him the fuck out.

5) Artest is grade A pussy. When someone actually did assualt him he backed right up and wanted none but the second he can swing at someone smaller then him he all about it.

Anyway Artest is out for the season and I'm thrilled. He can now go and begin to dedicate his time to his rap label that will be out of buisness by the time he puts on that gay uniform again.

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Snoogans

11-21-2004, 03:11 PM

hey wadd, what you say from now on means shit until you form your own opinion. you basically typed word for word what mad dog said about it, think for yourself poser

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Heavy

11-21-2004, 03:14 PM

Yeah because I've heard Mad dog talk about this right?

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Snoogans

11-21-2004, 03:16 PM

uhh, id guess yea, considering youve brought them up more than any other person ive seen on this board, even with your long absence

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ChickenHawk

11-21-2004, 03:16 PM

THE FACTS (http://www.nba.com/news/pacers_pistons_041121.html)

For once I am happy with an NBA decision. Everyone got exactly what they deserved, and I'm glad.

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Heavy

11-21-2004, 03:18 PM

uhh, id guess yea

Youd be wrong. I havnt heard him say shit since this happened. When the fuck was he even on?

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ChickenHawk

11-21-2004, 03:20 PM

Wadd's got a point. This game happened Friday night. It's Sunday. Mike & The Maddog haven't even had a show yet.

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Snoogans

11-21-2004, 03:21 PM

dog does the show from 10-1 on saturday and mike does one at sometime on sunday, occasionally with dog

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HBox

11-21-2004, 03:21 PM

I think Wallace should have got more. His suspension was in line with what most players get for shoving and starting a fight but he shares some responibility for everything that followed because he essentially started the whole thing.

And those two guys who walked on the court got exactly what they deserved. I don't fault Artest and everyone else for beating the shit out of those two guys. They came out after all the players left the stands. And they both walked right up to Artest. Is Artest supposed to let that guy take the first shot? If you are going to rightly fault the Pacers for going into the stands you have to fault the fans for going on the floor.

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ChickenHawk

11-21-2004, 03:31 PM

And they both walked right up to Artest. Is Artest supposed to let that guy take the first shot?
Ahh, the Bush Theory...

Good one.

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Heavy

11-21-2004, 03:31 PM

If you are going to rightly fault the Pacers for going into the stands you have to fault the fans for going on the floor.

Let me break down the on court fights. First off if 12 basketball players are in the stands fighting with fans and youre one of those fans you might not feel out of line by getting the fuck out of there and the court wouldnt be off limits at that point.

You're just coming up with excuse to justify him decking the fan. Hes the one that had already attacked someone and if anything the fan shouldve been the one expecting a punch and he wouldve been right.

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Snoogans

11-21-2004, 03:34 PM

yea except if you really were afraid artest is gonna punch you, you dont put your dukes up and walk toward him, YOU GO THE OTHER WAY

he was on the court to hit artest, and anyone who says different is wrong, flat out

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ChickenHawk

11-21-2004, 03:34 PM

ChickenHawk

11-21-2004, 03:35 PM

Anyone who is in defense of Ron Artest's actions on Friday is simply playing Devil's advocate and they know it. End of argument.

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Snoogans

11-21-2004, 03:37 PM

chickenhawk, if you have ever been in a fight, you know that if someone isnt ready for it, almost anyone who knows how to punch can hurt someone pretty bad.
the guy put up his fists and stepped toward artest.

any man i know goes into what is called INSTINCTS, if someone steps toward you with hands up, you dont wait to see what they are doin, YOU PUNCH THEM IN THE MOUTH, then find out what they were doin

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HBox

11-21-2004, 03:43 PM

Wadd, like I said, all the players were out of the stands at that point, so if these two numbskulls were so scared of the mean NBA players why did they go where the all were, and furthermore, walk right up to one of them. That's just a stupid argument.

I'm not looking for excuses for Artest. He deserves to be suspended for a while. But I don't think the whole season is appropriate. And I'm not going to put all the responsibility on him. And I'm certainly not going to feel any sympathy for two jackasses looking for trouble, ESPECIALLY after all that had just happened. The Pacers all acted recklessly and completely unprofessional, but that doesn't absolve others of their responsibility.

Ahh, the Bush Theory...

I HOPE you are just trying to push my buttons. Because if you can't tell the difference between a punch and war, I don't know what to say.

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AppleBoy

11-21-2004, 04:50 PM

I think Wallace should have gotten more time for being a whiny little bitch who can't take a hard foul. Frustration probably had some thing to do with Wallace's recation since the Pistons were getting their asses whipped by 15 points with about 46 seconds left in the game.

If Wallace just takes the hard foul and goes to the free throw line, none of this happens. Granted, considering Artest's reputation, maybe Wallace doen't snap if he gets a hard foul from anyone else on the Pacers.

Artest had no right to go into the stands but he was probably doing all he could to keep from going after Wallace and being hit with the empty cup was enough to put him over the edge.

Everyone went over the line that night. If everything is fair, then some of those fans will either lose their season tickets or be forced to do community service.

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Tenbatsuzen

11-21-2004, 05:56 PM

HBox... you don't actually think those dudes that were on the court were seriously planning on taking Artest, do you? You don't actually think their intentions went beyond talking smack, right? You don't actually think Iraq--I mean... that fat dude, actually posed a legitimate threat to Artest? It's impossible you seriously believe those things.

Chickenhawk, remember what happened to Monica Seles?

I work with the public all the time, especially at concerts. There have been times when peopke have gotten into my face, and I immediately fall back because what if they have a knife or something?

What I'm saying is, what Artest did to the fan in the stands is wrong.

However, the fan who got into Artest's face on the court deserved EXACTLY what he got.

That fan was looking for trouble, and he got it.

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Tenbatsuzen

11-21-2004, 06:00 PM

For what it's worth, I will guarantee the yearlong suspension against Artest will not hold up.

The Player's Association will use Artest's history of emotional problems to stress that he has a major anger management problem. They will get him help, and in return, the punishment is lessened.

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shamus mcfitzy

11-21-2004, 11:27 PM

Granted, considering Artest's reputation, maybe Wallace doen't snap if he gets a hard foul from anyone else on the Pacers.

this is something that I've heard many variations of and it just doesn't make sense. Artest was last year's defensive player of the year if i'm not mistaken (if not he won it the year before). Wallace I think won it then 2 years ago. There shouldn't be an issue between them. Wallace does the same shit and honestly that physical play is part of being good defensively in the NBA. Wallace should've jawed with him and been done. Pushing Artest, especially with what Artest has gone through, justs seems to be goading the guy.

I'm not gonna hide that I like Artest and feel sorry with him on the level of him being someone that obviously has had serious emotional problems in his life (just read recent articles on his time in high school and college). There's no doubt running into the stands was wrong and he should be suspended for that obviously. But I remotely remember and ESPN keeps talking about when Vernon Maxwell punched a fan that was heckling him and Maxwell got 10 games for it. What Artest did was severe, but suspending him for 73 games is very severe considering. I thought that at most he'd get 30 games and personally believed he should get like 41 games (half a season). Stern obviously grew a spine but maybe he got carried away.

And I am leaning towards the point of view that punching the guy on the court was not really that out of hand. Monica Seles is a good example of not knowing what a fanatic fan (he's on the court and he was definitely staring Artest down) will do. Punching a guy who could have a knife or gun is definitely self-defense. I'd do the same thing.

And from reading what people are saying, you'd think Artest should be kicking everyone's ass to prove he's no pussy but should also refrain so as not to get in trouble. He can't do both. I honestly think that Artest got up in the stands (probably because of the above mentioned imbalance that he obviously has) and regretted it. Then Stephen Jackson dove in and probably fucked everyone. As Stephen A. Smith is saying, his suspension was too lax considering everyone else's punishment. Artest and Jackson are each 6'7 men and both weigh around 220 pounds. It's not being a pussy to let something like a beer hitting you in the face make you start going completely nuts. As NBA players they have to know that they are expected to let something like that go. They're being punished for being completely blind to proper conduct as much as they are for punching fans.

I guess if anything positive comes out of this (because you know the fans will act at their stupidest at the next Pacers-Pistons game and that the players didn't learn shit from this) is that Artest might actually be able to seek help. He seems to be a good guy that is just really out of control. I don't think that when he gives interviews and sounds sane (the interview on ESPN radio before the Knicks-Pacers game comes to mind) that it is all an act. Maybe Ron-Ron can actually try to fix himself like Rasheed Wallace and to a lesser extent Kenyon Martin have had to do.