2004-2005 MLB Off-Season Moves Thread

[WindowSill]

ESPN list of this offseasons possible free agents (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1911763)

Some big names there like Troy Glaus, Troy Percival, Pedro, Jason Varitek, Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Delgado, Richie Sexon, J.D. Drew, Russ Ortiz, Jaret Wright, Matt Clement, Nomar, Armando Benitez, who, make all the jokes you want, dominated this season..., Carl Pavano, Carlos Beltran. Jeff Kent, Adrian Beltre, Steve Finley, Odalis Perez, Al Leiter, Kevin Millwood, Chris Carpenter, Matt Morris, Edgar Renteria, and David Wells.....just to name a few.....

I really hope the Mets get either Clement or Pavano...and Beltran...and some bullpen help.

I can only imagine how many moves the Yankees will be making this offseason...jeez...oh no, looks like Enrique Wilson and Miguel Cairo have opted for free agency!


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[MHasegawa]

Dammit, I checked Oakland and Dotel isn't on that list??

Who is Karim Garcia?? I no respect heem.
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[Fallon]

Sox need to sign Varitek, everyone else can be replaced or wants to much money.

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[BoondockSaint]

Sox need to sign Varitek, everyone else can be replaced or wants to much money.


Not only that but I read that they might think about trading Damon to take a run at Beltran. That would be a huge mistake for them.

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[TheGameHHH]

The absolute best thing the Red Sox can do this off-season is try and keep the entire team in tact. Fortunatly, I don't think that's gonna happen.

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[Fallon]

Their payroll is high enough. Lowe's value went up during the playoffs, Pedro thinks he deserves more than the Sox do, Mirabelli and Kapler can probably start somewhere else and Cabrera wants a lot of cash too.

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[BoondockSaint]

I think they can let Pedro go as long as they sign a good arm. And don't they have some shortstop in the minor leagues Fallon?

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[Fallon]

And don't they have some shortstop in the minor leagues Fallon?
I don't know, I just looked at the Paw Sox website and the only infielder I've heard of was Cesar Crespo and he wasn't that good when they brought him up.

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[BoondockSaint]

He may only be like 19 or 20. They were saying maybe they'd sign someone like Omar Vizquel for a year instead of Cabrera for 4 because they had this kid in the minors.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/huntnixsig.jpg

[HBox]

There's a shortstop in the Red Sox system called Hanley Ramirez that they're excited about,. but they don't think he'll be ready until 2006. They want to sign Cabrera short-term, or if that doesn't work sign Omar Vizquel.

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[Crippler]

The absolute best thing the Red Sox can do this off-season is try and keep the entire team in tact. Fortunatly, I don't think that's gonna happen.
You're not kidding. I think they lead the league with 17 potential free agents. That will be rough.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/71172486.jpg[color=white]

[WindowSill]

Phillies sign Manuel to be their manager (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1915690)




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[Def Dave in SC]

And don't they have some shortstop in the minor leagues Fallon?


They did have a really highly touted IF, but they traded him to Pittsburgh last year when they got Suppan. I cant remember his name, but he was hurt most f this year and was unable to play at all.

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[Snoogans]

i say resign cabrera, hes pretty young, and if that kid in the minors turns out to be that good, we can always trade one of the to help us even more, and cabrera did alot for us, id like if he stayed

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[WindowSill]

First a new manager, now a new all star first baseman? (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=fanball-metssexsoninterested&prov=fanball&type=lgns)

Things might be looking up for the Mets...


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[WindowSill]

I dont put much stock into FoxSports articles if ESPN doesnt report on it, but from the vibe theyre giving off, it looks like the Yankees are targeting the entire AL AllStar team and part of the NL one as well... (http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3136752)


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[WindowSill]

Looks like Scott Boras wants to pull another Arod caliber deal with Beltran (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1916467)


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[TheGameHHH]

I really want Soriano back, badly. But first, the pitching needs to be taken care of.

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[Crippler]

A buddy of mine at work just heard in the car (I think he was listening to the Philly sports station, WIP) that Wally Backman was fired today, just four days after being hired, as Diamondbacks manager. Anyone hear anything about this?

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/71172486.jpg[color=white]

[BoondockSaint]

Holy shit! You're right. Backman fired. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1916771)

Now maybe all those Met fans will stop yelling that we should have hired Wally.

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[Crippler]

I just heard, he failed to tell the D'Backs about an arrest for beating a female family member, and a DUI. Great job on the background check, fellas.

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[A.J.]

beating a female family member, and a DUI

Hmmmm...sounds like my Congressman, Rep. Jim Moran.

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[Iamnotatool]

What a bush league move by the D-Backs.

The guy is from YOUR ORGANIZATION! HOW DO YO NOT KNOW ABOT THIS, YOU DO! DON'T LIE ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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[HBox]

There are rumblings that the Yankees will go hard after the Red Sox by trying to sign Martinez, Lowe and Varitek. However, finding a trade for Jorge Posada won't be easy unless they pay a big chunk of his contract, which would make Varitek a $13 million-$14 million catcher. But not only is Steinbrenner after the Red Sox, the Yanks' front office was furious during their playoff series at the complaints filed by Boston with the Commissioner's Office for things like Derek Jeter and Alex Rodriguez getting radar readings from the stands . The Yankees are expected to make quick, hard runs at Eric Milton and Steve Kline in an effort to get more left-handed, then work the market . The Red Sox had hoped that Varitek would give them a chance to sign him early, but that may be unlikely, a leftover from the Larry Lucchino negotiations this spring .

:8o:

According to Gammons. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1917404)

If true, 1. We know who's in charge and 2. That freakin sucks.

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[WindowSill]

The Mets met with Scott Boras to discuss Beltran, Drew, Magglio, and even Varitek... (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/nym/news/nym_news.jsp?ymd=20041111&content_id=913010&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp)


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[WindowSill]

The Mets finally signed Benson (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1927822)

3 year deal worth 22.5 million with a 4th option year.


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[mikeyboy]

The Mets finally signed Benson (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1927822)



Isn't he a little long in the tooth?

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[TheGameHHH]

I think that's a good move by the Mets. I really like Benson, I just hope he doesn't go all "Mike Hampton" in New York.

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[WindowSill]

I just hope he doesn't go all "Mike Hampton" in New York.


What? You mean be good with 15 wins and a 3.14 ERA and lead them to a World Series?


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[Snoogans]

i thought he meant leave the mets to go to a place with better school systems

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[WindowSill]

If the Mets could also go and get Pavano, theyd have one of the best staffs in the league... (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/nym/news/nym_news.jsp?ymd=20041119&content_id=915005&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp)

Glavine, Pavano, Benson, Zambrano, Trachsel...how fuckin great would that be.


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[Snoogans]

pavano is gonna end up in boston i think, esp since he is from New Britain

and btw, dont blow your load. glavine is getting worse, i dont know why people like leiter, 5 innings, 120 pitches, and zambrano cant stay healthy

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[Fallon]

Sox Kapler signs with Japanese Team (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2004/11/22/report_kapler_signs_with_japanese_team/)

Little surprised by this. Figured he could get a good deal in MLB.

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[TheGameHHH]

i thought he meant leave the mets to go to a place with better school systems

clearly that's what i meant

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[A.J.]

Sox Kapler signs with Japanese Team

Little surprised by this. Figured he could get a good deal in MLB.

Damn. He was a good backup for Trot.

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[WindowSill]

First big trade of the Off Season; Kendall goes to the A's in return for starter Mike Redman and reliever Arthur Rhodes (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1931862)

I think the A's made a big mistake here. Theyre getting an overrated, overpaid catcher while giving up a pretty damn good starter in Redman and Rhodes who despite sucking as closer, did a decent job setting up for Dotel. I dont see why Beane would make this move and pick up salary considering he's always been on a tight leash as far as the payroll goes. On the other hand I think this means he intends to keep the big 3 in Oakland along with Rich harden and that rookie whos name just slipped my mind.


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[WindowSill]

Giants sign Benitez to a 21 million dollar deal (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1935338)

First of all, Im still not sold on Armando being an AllStar closer. He had a great year but he had quite a few bad ones before that. If used sparingly he can pitch great but the Giants cant keep trotting him out there every day like the Reds did with Danny Graves last season.

And second, I dont think that the Giants should be going out and spending all this money on relief pitching when they need OFFENSE. They need a #4 hitter to bat behind Bonds. They need a solid lead off guy. And they need more power. I mean they definitely need a closer but in my eyes offense should be their top priority.


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[WindowSill]

Oh, and the Mets offered Pedro a 3 year contract with a 4th option year, 12.5 million a year (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1934787)


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[HBox]

Looks like the Yanks will get Randy Johnson. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6630421/)

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[TheGameHHH]

I'm looking for something on ESPN.com about this and I see nothing. I really hope this comes into fruition.

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[Iamnotatool]

I've been saying this for MONTHS!!

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[Crippler]

According to ESPN, Arizona will either ask the Yankees to go outside their organization to acquire another pitcher to include in the deal, or demand that reliever Tom Gordon be included along with starter Javier Vazquez and third base prospect Eric Duncan. The D-Backs reportedly also want the Yankees to pay $4 million a year of Vazquez's contract.
...for a 41 year old goon with a cranky back & a face that looks like he lost a battlle with a cheese grater. Maybe I'm biased because I've always hated this fuck, but I think this is awful. I wasn't on board for renting him for the playoffs and I don't like giving up on Vazquez, still paying a chunk of his contract, never even getting to see what Duncan might become, AND another pitcher.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/71172486.jpg[color=white]

[HBox]

never even getting to see what Duncan might become, AND another pitcher.

He would never see the light of day in the bigs. He's only sitting behind the best 3rd baseman in the game.

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This message was edited by HBox on 12-1-04 @ 7:37 PM

[suedeface]

Duncan could end up playing 1st base to get on a team.

[WindowSill]

As a Mets fan, I must say I really hate the Yankees....because of shit like this....I really really do.

As far as my unbiased opinion goes, its an awful long term move, but the Yankees arent exactly known for thinking long term. Their mentality has been, and continues to be "Win now, think about later later". Theyre giving away their only bright spot in set up relief this year in Gordon, their top, and really, their only prospect in Duncan, and a guy who still has a ton of upside in Vasquez. I understand Vasquez didnt do so well, (he had 14 wins and an ERA just over 4 so you cant call it a BAD season) but this guy was consistently among the leaders in strikeouts in the NL and was able to get quite a few wins even though he played for the Expos.

Nevertheless, the deal achieves exactly what the Yankees want and thats another pitcher who has had success throughout all of his career, is making many millions of dollars a year, to stick atop their rotation....another franchise player rather than someone who is younger, and has a great deal of upside and will progressively become a top 5 pitcher in the league.

I see a lot of remodeling in the Yankees future, and it involves moving in and moving out a lot of big names i.e. RJ, Kevin Brown, Jason Giambi, and one of the many big name OFs available this offseason.



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[TheGameHHH]

I think you guys make some really valid points. But this move isn't about what it will do for the Yanks in 4 years from now, it's about winning a championship in '05 and bringing the World Series back to where it belongs, in the Bronx. Randy Johnson is phenominal, don't tell me he's losing it, because he's not. He might not be great in 2-3 years but right now, in this present moment, he's still a very dominant pitcher. Would I like to see what Vazquez could do in the Bronx? Yes. But the last half of last season made me nausous when I watched him take the hill, he shat himself every time out. Just left his fastball up and hitters teed off on it. I don't need to watch that. I know that's something Randy won't do. Gordon? I don't really see how he makes a difference, I really think he's a very replaceable commodity. And Duncan, a 3rd base prospect, how can you even care about 3rd base prospects at this point? Your man is at 3rd base for the next decade. Short-term this move makes perfect sense, and I for one am excited about it.

And Window, hopefully they'll ship Giambi out asap.

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This message was edited by TheGameHHH on 12-1-04 @ 9:04 PM

[WindowSill]

ESPN is saying it isnt true (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1936460)


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[TheGameHHH]

Jason Stark says no, Peter Gammons says yes. All I care about is that the Red Sox don't get him.

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[WindowSill]

Arizona fucked themselves by not dealing Johnson to LA at the deadline because they wanted too much back. They shouldnt make the same mistake here. They have a lot more time now but if what Stark wrote is true, then I see another ARod scenario in the making.


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[WindowSill]

Mets swap lefites with Yankees, sending Stanton crosstown in return for Heredia (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/nym/news/nym_news.jsp?ymd=20041203&content_id=918425&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp)

Ugh...as much as I hated Stanton last season, Heredia is that much worse. Pointless move to drop 2 million bucks worth of payroll.


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[BoondockSaint]

Nomar resigns with Cubs for a year. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1940780) So who would win in a fight? Nomar or Hurricane Ditka?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/liamsig.jpg

[Fallon]

Good job Nomar rejecting that four year $60 million dollar offer the Sox made for you last year. Retard.

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[keithy_19]

Totally unrelated, but who's in your sig fallon?

http://64.177.177.182/katylina/keithy.gif

[Fallon]

Totally unrelated, but who's in your sig fallon?
Teen Kelly and Tiffany Teen

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This message was edited by WWFallon on 12-7-04 @ 8:58 PM

[HBox]

Yankees sign Jaret Wright. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45296-2004Dec7.html)

Woo.....hoo?

Yankees sign Tony Womack. (http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3228202)

..............

This message was edited by HBox on 12-7-04 @ 11:59 PM

[TheMojoPin]

Good job Nomar rejecting that four year $60 million dollar offer the Sox made for you last year. Retard.

I think it's just a lovely breakdown of just how shitty Boston is.

HOW shitty?

$60 million worth of shitty.

NOOOOOO-MAH!

Didn't he still get a ring or something from last season?

Still...I thought this was kinda classy...

Though Garciaparra had to watch from afar when the Red Sox won the World Series and finally ended 86 years of frustration, he said he was thrilled for his old team.


"I was really pulling for my teammates there," he said. "I'll always have great ties to that city. To see them do that, I was definitely happy for them and rally, really excited for them and that city."

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 12-8-04 @ 1:09 AM

[Fallon]

Didn't he still get a ring or something from last season?
Nomar Garciaparra was voted a three-quarters World Series share by his former teammates on the Boston Red Sox and received $167,715.

Real Red Sox got $223,620
St. Louis got $163,379
Houston got $101,182
Yankees got $94,061

Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-worldseriesshares&prov=ap&type=lgns)

He doesn't deserve a ring and I don't think he'll be getting one.

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[HBox]

Unless that's something that's normally done for players who are traded from a team mid-season, that's a real ass thing to do.

[WindowSill]

Leiter to the Marlins (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1941774)

Lieber to the Phils (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1941926)

Williams to the Padres (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1942134)

Dye to the ChiSox (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1942614)

And Glaus to the DBacks (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1942433)


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[MHasegawa]

Good riddance, Jermaine.

Who is Karim Garcia?? I no respect heem.
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[Fallon]

David Ortiz says this about Pedro:
"He ain't going to no Mets"

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[Bulldogcakes]

David Ortiz says this about Pedro:
"He ain't going to no Mets"


Then he said "Say Hello to my little friend!"
and "Come onnnnn pelican!

Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[WindowSill]

Kent to the Dodgers (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1942918)


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[MHasegawa]

Let's see if Kent can stray from "bathtub accidents"...

Who is Karim Garcia?? I no respect heem.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/DKMH1/Misc/MHIRON.gif

[BoondockSaint]

Let's see if Kent can stray from "bathtub accidents"...



I thought he was washing his car?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/liamsig.jpg

[WindowSill]

I thought so too...

Finley to the Angels (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1943279)


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[MHasegawa]

That takes them outta the Beltran race.

Who is Karim Garcia?? I no respect heem.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/DKMH1/Misc/MHIRON.gif

[HBox]

Diamondbacks obtain Ortiz. (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpNWZic251BF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwN0 aA--?slug=ap-diamondbacks-ortiz&prov=ap&type=lgns) I hope I just gave Red Sox fans a heart attack.

[HBox]

ESPNNEWS reported the Red Sox signed David Wells. :mad:

[Fallon]

Boston Dirt Dogs says "Steve Phillips/ESPNews Blows Wells Call -- Offer Made, Not Signed as Reported"

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This message was edited by WWFallon on 12-10-04 @ 6:05 PM

[WindowSill]

As if Steve Phillips knows a damn thing about signing a good pitcher.

Russ Ortiz to the DBacks (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1943600)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Crippler]

Finley to the Angels
Unless they're not sure about Anderson's health, did they really need another outfielder? I guess Kotchman's career will stay on hold...unless Erstad does some DH'ing due to Salmon's injury.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/71172486.jpg[color=white]

[WindowSill]

Hidalgo to the Rangers (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1943586)

ESPN.com is indeed reporting that the BoSox are pursuing Wells as a possible replacement for Pedro behind Schilling in the rotation (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1943703)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[MHasegawa]

Shit, I thought Boston was close to keeping Pedro for the 3 years he wanted...

Who is Karim Garcia?? I no respect heem.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/DKMH1/Misc/MHIRON.gif

[Fallon]

I'd think Wells is more of a replacment fore Lowe. Sox have to have Pedro or Pavano.

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[Bulldogcakes]

Way back when, Wells used to be a Yankee killer.
That was one of the reasons they originally signed him.
To get him to stop pitching against THEM!
He has a bad back now and he's pretty old, so let them sign him.

Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[Bulldogcakes]

"Steve Phillips/ESPNews Blows Wells Call -- Offer Made, Not Signed as Reported"




This from the guy who told Met fans Mo Vaughn was healthy




Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[WindowSill]

Red Sox + Wells = Done Deal (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1944020)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[TheGameHHH]

Wells doesn't really bother me all that much this year. Cashman had a really interesting quote that went something along the lines of, 'Despote his love for the Yankees, he walked away from us last year.' And truly that's how I feel as well. I wish him the best, he can do whatever he wants to do. He's very old and very injury prone now, so we'll see what happens for him this season.

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[WindowSill]

Pirates send recently aqcuired Arthur Rhodes to Cleveland in return for Matt Lawton (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1944134)


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Fallon]

Gammons Says Sox Close to Signing Edgar Renteria to Replace OC 4 Years, $38 Million -BostonDirtDogs

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[Fallon]

Carl Pavano, meanwhile, had come to terms on a four-year, $42 million deal with the Yankees, according to several baseball officials, though no official announcement was forthcoming. -Boston.com

The Red Sox signed left-hander John Halama on Saturday, ESPN's Peter Gammons reported. It's a one-year deal for $1 million -ESPN

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[Bulldogcakes]

NEWS FLASH-Jarrod Wright failed his physical w/Yanks.
(WFAN radio)

Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[TheGameHHH]

I'll go into battle with Moose and Pavano as 1 & 2.

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[Bulldogcakes]

Its official Pavano's a Yank! MLB.com says he chose the Yanks!

Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[WindowSill]

Atlanta trades star prospect to the Brewers for Danny Kolb, Smoltz might be returning to the rotation (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1944249)


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[HBox]

Jaret Wright passed his second physical. He's a Yankee. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1944230)

[WindowSill]

Yay?


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[HBox]

I have no idea. That signing so confounded me I'm left confused and indifferent.

This message was edited by HBox on 12-11-04 @ 11:03 PM

[WindowSill]

I dont see him doing too well. I think last year was more or less a fluke season considering he had never had a good season (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5839&context=pitching) and got destroyed in his playoff starts. Can somebody say ESTEBAN LOAIZA?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[MHasegawa]

Yeah, I dunno know why you Janquis fans are all giddy over this, Pavano's so overrated I'm suprised he hasn't pitched for Oakland.

Who is Karim Garcia?? I no respect heem.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/DKMH1/Misc/MHIRON.gif

[Bulldogcakes]

How the fuck is it they hold winter meetings and dont do dick? All day Sunday, I'm waiting to see where Hudson, Sosa, Pedro, etc goes. And theres one puny trade with the Blue Jays for two shlubs I never heard of. Why hold these meetings if your not doing anything?

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[WindowSill]

Do you really expect all the blockbuster moves to go through the first weekend of winter meetings? Theres still 4 months till the season starts and plenty of players to go around.

Koskie to the Jays (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1945093)


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Heavy]

Pedro to the Mets

http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=JohneeWadd
A proportionate amount of props are equally distributed to my nigga's Fluff, Alexxis, CanOfSoup15, WWFallon and Katylina
HORDE KING FOREVER!!!
ORACLE NEVER!!!

[WindowSill]

Yeah its not done yet but it looks as though the Mets have guaranteed that fourth year of Pedros contract to push it over the top.

On a crappier note for the Mets, looks like Sexon is going to Seattle (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1945407)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[WindowSill]

I also just saw this on Mets.com; Manny to the Mets? (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/nym/news/nym_news.jsp?ymd=20041212&content_id=921608&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp)

I doubt that it will happen, but if Boston just puts him out on the table like they did last year, I wouldnt be surprised if the Mets snatch him up and youd be a damn fool to not give up Piazza for Manny. It also looks as though theyre going to sign Alou and then trade Floyd.


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.


This message was edited by WindowSill on 12-13-04 @ 3:54 PM

[WindowSill]

ChiSox trade Carlos Lee to the Brewers for Podsednik, Vizcaino, and a player to be named later... (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1945683)

Mike Matheny signed with the Giants meaning AJ Pyerzinskiy is out there.

And more on Pedro. Looks like he will be in Shea next season... (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1945561)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Bulldogcakes]

So far the Yanks have signed Wright, Pavano's coming, and it's them or Houston (who offered dick) for Beltran. The Sox will lose Lowe, Pedro, Burks, Cabrera, Kapler. Varitek, Leskanic, Mueller are all still unsigned. Replace them with 41 yr old David Wells and. . . ? So far, Yanks look better, Sox look worse than last year, but the season's still 4 mos away. Sox need to make some moves to keep pace. Rentaria would be a good start for them, but they're going to need a pitcher or 2.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[WindowSill]

OK, but how good did the Yankees look last year after they went out and got Sheffield, ARod, Vasquez, Brown, Gordon....cant judge a team by how they look on paper otherwise the Mets would win every year.


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Bulldogcakes]

David Ortiz says this about Pedro:
"He ain't going to no Mets"


Right, Nostradamus.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[Bulldogcakes]

OK, but how good did the Yankees look last year after they went out and got Sheffield, ARod, Vasquez, Brown, Gordon....cant judge a team by how they look on paper otherwise the Mets would win every year.


The Yanks won 100 games last year
You think the Mets looked good on paper?
Every writer and radio personality picked them last or next to last.
Even the owner addressed the team and set a goal of "Meaningful games"
You're drinking the Kool aid my friend

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[WindowSill]

Well look at the players theyve gotten in the past few years that they just werent able to win with; Alomar, Vaughn, Glavine, Matsui, Floyd, Burnitz, Stanton, and theres a ton more but I just dont care enough to look.
Yes the Yankees won 100 last year, but much good that did them when they dropped 4 straight to the lesser Boston Red Sox with half the AL AllStar team roster.


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[HBox]

Fuck Theo Epstein, and fuck the Red Sox front office. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1945747)

Pedro Martinez is the last guy I want to defend, but this article is eerily similar to a bunch of articles that came out after Nomar was traded. Everybody syas the right things in public, but then all of a sudden a bunch of stuff is leaked to discredit the player to the fans. Well, the ink isn't even dry on Pedro's new contract and we have this:

On Saturday night, the Red Sox were just about 100 percent sure he was coming back. He had asked them to guarantee three years. So grudgingly, they guaranteed three years and $38 million.

He had asked them for perks and planes and privileges that Bronson Arroyo will never even envision, let alone ask for. But grudgingly, the Red Sox gave him virtually all that, too.

That was supposed to be that. Instead, Pedro did nothing more but use that astounding offer to squeeze more out of the Mets.

Mets GM Omar Minaya mulled it over for a while. Then, on a Sunday night that changed everything, Minaya agreed to guarantee four years, about $50 million.

Incredibly, Pedro still didn't say yes.

Standard negotiating practice these days, according to two longtime baseball negotiators, is never to offer a deal-sealer like that fourth year without explicitly saying, "I'm only offering this if it means this deal is done."

But it appears Minaya didn't attach that stipulation -- because after that, according to sources who had spoken with the Red Sox, Cuza went back to the Boston delegation one more time.

He said Pedro was hurt and angry. Why would one team be willing to give him four years but the Red Sox wouldn't? Why wouldn't the Red Sox show him the respect he had earned after all these years?

The Red Sox delegation didn't need to listen long. They had heard enough. They had done enough. They had done all they were going to do. So if Pedro could get all that from the Mets, he should probably go get it before the Mets changed their mind.

But it's a funny thing. As much as the Red Sox will miss all that, they won't miss the countless days he showed up late, the obligations he dodged, the special treatment he demanded.

But we are trying to imagine the back page of the Post or the News after he opted not to show up for Game 6 of an apocalyptic League Championship Series, as he did this past October. The headlines might not fit on the page.

In the end, he needed more rest and nonstop maintenance. He was still fun when he took the ball, or when he led those cheers from the dugout. But one baseball man who knows the Red Sox well predicted there would be no clubhouse uproar over this. Not a peep.

"You'll be amazed how little you'll hear those players complain," he said. "I bet you'll never hear a word -- no matter how many games he wins."

The Mets get a great pitcher -- on some nights, anyway -- and a great attraction for their new TV network.

They were sure they had Carl Pavano. Then he U-turned toward the Bronx to make his mother and father -- longtime Yankees fans -- happy.

But he might very well have made their life a lot more peaceful just by deciding he had hung around long enough.

[font=Century gothic][color=navy][size=2]You know what, fuck Jayson Stark for being their hatchet man! Why the hell is that excuse for NOT landing Pavano in there? This is ridiculous. The injury concerns are one thing. Everything else is out of bounds. Forget the Schilling lionizing; Pedro was their best pitcher in the postseason. Pedro was the only thing keeping them competetive all these years. He ripped up his shoulder and probably shortened his career in the process of carrying the Red Sox on his back. Now he wants to cash in and he's a greedy scumbag who the Red Sox would be better without?

You know why you didn't land Pavano? Because he sees how you bastards treat your

[Fallon]

He ripped up his shoulder and probably shortened his career in the process of carrying the Red Sox on his back. Now he wants to cash in and he's a greedy scumbag who the Red Sox would be better without?
You said it yourself, he shortened his career. Why would they want him for four years if he's going to be injured?

You know why you didn't land Pavano? Because he sees how you bastards treat your stars on the way out.
Pavano is from New Britain, CT, which is a mix of Sox and Yanks fans. He was already on the Sox seven years ago, maybe he wanted to try the Yankees now or maybe he didn't want to be assosiated with Pedro again (being traded for him, then replacing him).

Clemens, Nomar, now Pedro It's one stain that this new ownership hasn't been able to wash away.
Clemens had 40 wins and 39 loses in his last four seasons with the Sox. He was playing like shit and got the kick in the ass he needed by getting traded to Toronto.

Nomar was offered contracts way before the A-Rod stuff happened. He declined, Sox went after A-Rod since they felt they'd lose him and it hurt his feelings. Boohoo. Meanwhile he now has a one year deal for less money and not the four years the Sox offered.

Was George, in public or behind the scenes, trashing Pettite last year after he left the Yanks? NO!
Everybody was trashing George for letting him go.

You could have gotten away with letting him go. But no, lets trash him, drag his name through the dirt on the way out as a sign of our appreciation.
Pedro started the trash talking by bringing up his contract during the post-season and continued during the offseason by saying he's not being respected. He got offered the same deal as Curt Schilling, who is a better pitcher than him.

Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you all in the Boston front office.
Yeah, they've done a shitty job since taking over. Fenway has only sold out every game and they've won a world series championship since.

I can only hope Boston's fans aren't too intoxicated by the World Series win that they drink the kool-aid.
We're not worried at all about the 2005 season. We just have to sign Varitek. He was and always has been most important this off season.

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[A.J.]

I'm sad to see Pedro go but business is business. I have to trust that Theo knows what he is doing. But I'm a little concerned having a starting rotation that looks like it's an Old Timer's Day lineup.

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A Skidmark/canofsoup15 production.

Red Sox Nation

[Bulldogcakes]

Well look at the players theyve gotten in the past few years that they just werent able to win with; Alomar, Vaughn, Glavine, Matsui, Floyd, Burnitz, Stanton, and theres a ton more but I just dont care enough to look.

Problem with most of those guys is they were past their prime. They've got to figure out when a player turns that corner. Jury's still out on Matsui. Burnitz was lost in Shea stadium, like most sluggers. Pitching, pitching, pitching. The only way the Mets have ever won at Shea was with pitching heavy teams.

Yes the Yankees won 100 last year, but much good that did them when they dropped 4 straight to the lesser Boston Red Sox with half the AL AllStar team roster.

I dont think Boston was the lesser team.The better TEAM won (Happy WWFallon?). They went on to win the World Series. The Yanks couldn't pitch enough last year. And there's such a thing as too many stars. Everyone looking to drive in runs and no one getting on base. Womack should help. I miss Knobloch. Yips and all.


http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 12-14-04 @ 7:58 AM

[Bulldogcakes]

Smearing players on their way out is S.O.P. in Boston. Goes all the way back to Babe Ruth (where all the "carousing" stuff started, which was true, but wasn't an issue before he left) WWFallon, you're a great Sox fan, but you have to admit right now they're a quart low. They have some work to do. And all the bullshit with Pedro was off the field. When he pitched, he pitched like hell. I'm a Yankee fan, I never wanted to face him. Even when we won, it usually wasn't his fault. And "He's slipping" doesn't wash with me either. Half of Pedro is still outstanding, and with his change-up he could get away with less fastball. Watch him do very well in Shea. NL, pitchers park, will be a breeze for him. He'll be missed.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[TheGameHHH]

The Sports Guy wrote an excellent article on Pedro on Page 2 over at ESPN.com. It should sum up the way every Sox fan feels about this move.

<IMG SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/monster6sixty6/guests/hhh3_sig.gif">

[Walrus622]

4 years, 56 million, for a pitcher who wont even take an MRI and is on the downside of his career? Nostradamus would call this a gimme, HORRIBLE MOVE!

[HBox]

Fallon, you completely missed the point of my post. I don't care that the Red Sox didn't resign him. I mentioned that only a fool would sign Pedro to the contract he will receive. I don't even care that they are leaking that medical information. But everytime a big star leaves the Red Sox they trashed on the way out. It's wrong, especially after all that Pedro did for Boston.

[WindowSill]

I understand Pedro has a tear in his labrum, and Im not thrilled that theyre going to skip the MRI...they dont really need it considering they know that the tear is there. In fact an ESPN source had said that the tear is about 90% complete. But to call this guy the next Mo Vaughn is just ridiculous in my eyes. For one, Mo Vaughn had been out of shape, awful defensively, and injury prone his entire career, he played more than 140 games just 4 years out of his 12 year career. That and the fact that he was on a rapid decline starting with his later years on the Sox, the 2 years in Anaheim, and then capped off by the 2 "seasons" he "played" with the Mets.

Pedro, though older than Pedro of the past, and not quite as good as Pedro of the past, is still damn good. At 33 hes better than most of the 26 year olds. I understand he has the torn labrum, and Im sure that he'll be put on the DL once or twice in his tenor with the Mets. Nevertheless, I am confident in the fact that Pedro will continue to be Pedro both on and off the field.

Sure I would rather they signed Pavano or Clement but compared to a lot of the other alternatives, I like this move. And if the only way they were gonna get him is to guarantee 4 years (he'll be 37 in his final year, thats not that fuckin old...) and 14 million a season then so be it.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Bulldogcakes]

Just in case you think all's Wells in Beantown

(David Wells) He is 10-10 with a 4.87 ERA at Fenway. His career record is 212-136 with a 4.03 ERA in 18 seasons. He's 10-3 with a 3.18 ERA in 25 postseason appearances. (espn.com)

He's a fly ball pitcher (in Fenway). He throws alot of strikes, but at his age, with a little less stuff each year, that could become batting practice. Had 3.73 in the NL. add 1/2 pt in AL. Sox can score, but I don't think Fenway will be kind. And as a Yankee fan, I can tell you Wells does not have a plan B. He goes out there and does his thing, and if it doesn't work it's a quick trip to the showers. Also loves to drink (Where will ever find a bar in Boston?) so watch out for hangovers and daytime games.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 12-14-04 @ 9:14 PM

[A.J.]

The Sports Guy wrote an excellent article on Pedro on Page 2 over at ESPN.com. It should sum up the way every Sox fan feels about this move.

<IMG SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/monster6sixty6/guests/hhh3_sig.gif">

It does.

I wish Pedro well and appreciate all he did for the team. I don't want him to do as well as Clemens did in his post-Boston career, but I don't want him to tank like Mo Vaughn did.

<img src=http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Canofsoup15/Sigs/AJinDC-Sig.jpg>

A Skidmark/canofsoup15 production.

Red Sox Nation

[Iamnotatool]

I'll take Pedro over pavano or Clement.

Pavano had ONE GOOD YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Clement has a WEIRD CHIN GOATEE!!!!!!!!!!

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/iamnotatool.gif>
Please don't hold my huge nutbag against me, or I'll hold it against you that you have flapjack tits

[Crippler]

I wanted Clement in pinstripes. Gerbil on his chin & all. At least he would have been forced to shave it in the Bronx.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/71172486.jpg[color=white]

[Iamnotatool]

I'd take Clement over Pavano, but Pedro beats em both.

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/iamnotatool.gif>
Please don't hold my huge nutbag against me, or I'll hold it against you that you have flapjack tits

[Crippler]

Not if you had to guarantee the fourth year to seal the deal. Personally, given what he looked like the second half of last year (nowhere near bad, just not Pedro-like), I wouldn't want to give him more than two years.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/71172486.jpg[color=white]

This message was edited by Crippler on 12-15-04 @ 3:47 PM

[WindowSill]

Sox sign Renteria; 40 million over 4 years (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1946831)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Iamnotatool]

Crips, the Mets are in a position where they HAD to overpay someone to get them to come. Might as well overpay for a guy who will be a top 5 pitcher for the next 2 years. Carl Pavano and Matt Clement will NEVER be a top 5 pitcher in the game.

Are years 3 and 4 risky? You bet your ass, but remember, the Mets are the ones that thought Vlad was risky. Take the fucking chance on proven commodities, not Mo Vaughn who's outof baseball for 2 years, who is a known fatty. Pedro weighs 110 lbs, so we dont have to worry bout that.

That being said, this move does nothing if we don't get some better relief. As Spankee fans are happy to point out, Pedro is a 100 pitch guy these days, which in the NL should get him into the 7th most starts.


I truly believe if Minaya was here last year Vlad would be too. It's a sign that the Mets are back. Minaya has a pair of balls. Will he make mistakes, absolutely. But now, as a hitter, maybe I see that Pedro signed, maybe I will too. If I'm a real good Dominican, maybe I'll sign so I can play with Pedro.


I realize this isn't 5 years ago, but, I'll take him.




<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/iamnotatool.gif>
Please don't hold my huge nutbag against me, or I'll hold it against you that you have flapjack tits

[WindowSill]

Carl Pavano and Matt Clement will NEVER be a top 5 pitcher in the game.


Im sorry, but wasnt Carl Pavano one of the top 3 pitchers in the NL this year? I understand its just one year whereas Pedros been doing it for 10 years, but lets not sell Pavano short after an 18-8 season with a 3.00 ERA.

Other than that though, I agree with you completely...


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.


This message was edited by WindowSill on 12-15-04 @ 6:17 PM

[HBox]

Pedro wasn't a top 5 pitcher last year, won't be next year and the only reason he was the Sox best pitcher in the playoffs is because Schilling's ankle was falling apart.

Who lives in a body bag under the sea?

This message was edited by HBox on 12-15-04 @ 6:36 PM

[ADF]

I understand he has the torn labrum, and Im sure that he'll be put on the DL once or twice in his tenor with the Mets


Funny, I always saw Pedro as a soprano.

<center><a href="http://somesuch.org" target="_blank"><img border="0" src="http://www.somesuch.org/sigpics/adfmas.gif"></a><br><br>And that's the end of my show.. donk.</center>

[WindowSill]

Pedro wasn't a top 5 pitcher last year, won't be next year


Perhaps not but 16-9 is pretty damn good in league where just 3 pitchers won 20 or more is pretty damn good considering he pitches 5-6 innings a game and had an awful start to the season. And 3.90 may not be as good as the 2.21's he was putting up before but its still pretty damn good.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Crippler]

Crips, the Mets are in a position where they HAD to overpay someone to get them to come. Might as well overpay for a guy who will be a top 5 pitcher for the next 2 years. Carl Pavano and Matt Clement will NEVER be a top 5 pitcher in the game.
I definitely agree that this move made sense for the Mets right now. I meant that given those three choices for the Yanks, I would have preferred Clement. The Mets needed a front of the rotation guy, and Pedro is that guy. Unfortunately, unless they pull off a few more moves, Pedro will be done before they're ready to compete.

But my main worry for the Mets (and I don't like 'em, so I really don't care) is that if he doesn't have two big years at the beginning of this contract, that when he really breaks down in year three & still has two years left at $14+ million, people will start to look at the deal in hindsight as being just as stupid as the Mo Vaughn move.

As you said, the Mets were nervous about Vladdy's back, even with youth & a HUGE upside going for him. Pedro's dominant years are definitely behind him, and now the Mets are willing to pass on an MRI for a small, fragile-looking guy, then guarantee him 4 years at stud money. It just reeks of possible disaster in the future.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/71172486.jpg[color=white]

This message was edited by Crippler on 12-15-04 @ 7:12 PM

[Bulldogcakes]

I'd take Clement over Pavano, but Pedro beats em both.

Tool, Pavano was 18-8 last year, pitched well the year before and excellent in the post season against that Yanks.
Here's Clement's #s
2004 ChC 9-13 3.68
Total W-69 L-75 4.34
He's a career sub-500 pitcher, plus he looks like a fucking leprechan!
Let the Mets sign him, I dont want him on the Yanks.



http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[WindowSill]

Shit Id love to have him on the Mets. Why let him go to the Yankees and ruin his career.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Bulldogcakes]

What career? With his lifetime record you think Clement will show up at Shea and magically become a winning pitcher?

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[WindowSill]

I think CLement was really good last year and in 2002 even though his record may not show it. Hes been a consistently good pitcher and has put up decent numbers...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[torker]

he has the torn labrum


it was a torn perineum

<IMG SRC=http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/41855e91zfa5977f1/torker131313/__sr_/f69f.jpg?pf7fPwBBudeeNnUT>

[Iamnotatool]

I actually like Clement, had a great first half but if memory serves me correct, he shit the bed second half. Could be wrong.

I'm not saying Pavano sucks, I'm saying do it more than one year. You can say Clement's a lifetime under .500 pitcher, but so is Pavano.

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/iamnotatool.gif>
Please don't hold my huge nutbag against me, or I'll hold it against you that you have flapjack tits

[WindowSill]

he has the torn labrum


it was a torn perineum

<IMG SRC=http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/41855e91zfa5977f1/torker131313/__sr_/f69f.jpg?pf7fPwBBudeeNnUT>

Nope....3rd paragraph down. Todays NY Post said the same thing. Its his labrum. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1945747)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.


This message was edited by WindowSill on 12-15-04 @ 10:10 PM

[torker]

But I like perineum

Perineum is the area of skin rich in nerve endings that is located below the anus (the opening for bowel movements). For women, the perineum extends to the vaginal opening; for men it extends to the base of the testicles.
Because the perineum is so rich in nerve endings it often feels pleasing to have it touched or stroked. If one is comfortable with being touched on the perineum, its stimulation can be incorporated into a couple's lovemaking to further enhance sexual arousal. To make stimulation smoother and more comfortable, it is often helpful to lubricate your fingers before stroking the perineum during lovemaking. As long as the stimulation remains outside the body on the perineum, any type of lubricant (petroleum-base or water-base) will do. However, because this kind of stimulation is often associated with insertion of the finger into the vagina or anus, or both, a water-base lubricant is recommended and preferred.



<IMG SRC=http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/41855e91zfa5977f1/torker131313/__sr_/f69f.jpg?pf7fPwBBudeeNnUT>

[Bulldogcakes]

I actually like Clement, had a great first half but if memory serves me correct, he shit the bed second half. Could be wrong.

I'm not saying Pavano sucks, I'm saying do it more than one year. You can say Clement's a lifetime under .500 pitcher, but so is Pavano.

All true, but Pavano at least had one great season, and is at an age (28) where pitchers tend to mature. Clement has never had anything close to an 18-8 season. Look up his rap sheet on ESPN.com, its pretty brutal.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 12-15-04 @ 10:23 PM

[WindowSill]

But I like perineum


Well gee thanks for making me feel like an idiot with all your damn medical terms....


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Meatball]

I like the way this guy sums up the Mets signing Martinez situation. Im a Mets fan and i think he captures the frustration we feel with so many bad moves by management over the years.

Mets Make Drastic Move for Questionable Gain. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=678&e=5&u=/usatoday/20041215/sp_usatoday/metsmakedrasticmoveforquestionablegain)

<IMG SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v380/meatball613/25grea13.jpg">
"Thats a spicy meatball"

[Fallon]

Pedro had his Mets press conference today (covered by local ABC, NBC, CBS and NECN) and got pretty pissed when a reporter asked a question involving Pedro being late to games and leaving early. I guess it was something that Schilling brought up this week when he was interviewed.

He seemed pretty bitter towards Curt, but it was a subject that the media talked about for years here.

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This message was edited by WWFallon on 12-16-04 @ 11:59 AM

[WindowSill]

He seemed pretty hostile towards the media in general. I mean I cant really blame him considering they have been less than kind to him. Nevertheless, New York sports is one giant fishbowl, its not like Boston where you can just say you dont want to talk to the media and no one will ask questions. He better start getting used to it...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[HBox]

The braves got Tim Hudson, as reported on ESPNNEWS.



Who lives in a body bag under the sea?

[HBox]

Here's Derek Lowe on how classy the Red Sox are to their departing superstars. (Scroll down a bit) (http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/2004/12/derek_talks_abo.html)

What if they call you up in an hour and say `we really need to have you back,' you sound like that really isn't an option.

No, it really isn't an option. You could kinda see how things were going to unfold with me, over the last two weeks of the season, with them kinds telling me I wasn't even going to be on the roster as a starting pitcher, that tells me where you believe you are in their eyes, which is fine. As a team we pulled together and won a World Series. But obviously they haven't prioritized me as even one of the top 10 guys they want to bring back.

You weren't even asked back to the Red Sox holiday party, Was this a slap in the face?

Yeah (it was a slap in the face) it was disappointing, but you know what? I saw it happen with Mo Vaughn. I saw it happen with Nomar. You're seeing it happen with Pedro. And myself. Unfortunately when you leave the Red Sox, unfortunately has to be ugly. And I don't think it really needs to be that way, I mean it's a business I completely understand if they don't want to bring you back. They had a get together down in Ft. Myers when I live, and not to be invited was disappointing.

Why the disrespect?

They came out publicly and said they invited me but it was after an article came out and said they didn't invite me. 30 minutes later they called and said they invited you. To me that's not really an invite, it's a reaction to an article. They had three weeks if they really wanted you to come. You move on. I enjoyed my time there, and to win a World Series, but to break up the team that won, it's shocking.

Why did it have to be ugly?

You're in such a high media market, and they are so conscious of what people say because people in the New England area have such strong opinions, good and bad. So if they make it ugly, and kind of drag your name through the mud, people will say "well now I see why they're not bringing him back." But if they leave on good terms, people will be wondering why they didn't bring this guy back. So there's a lot of politicking going involved. And I think a lot of it has to do with the media.

Are we going to see negative stuff about Pedro Martinez now that he signed with the New York Mets?

Yeah, I read an article today, and that's exactly what they said. It's so unfortunate that it has to be like that, but it's exactly what you said. They did it with Nomar. They did it with Mo Vaughn before. I know it was a different regime. They did it with me. And they said "well now it's gonna to look like they're going to start bringing up bad things about Pedro," and sure enough they are, saying he's a selfish player, he broke the rules, which really doesn't need to be brought up. This guy did so many things for them. He brought them a World Series, you're kinda doing the guy disjustice (sic) by dragging his name through the mud.



Who lives in a body bag under the sea?

[suedeface]

I have to disagree with Windowsill. Boston is not a town where the media will leave you alone. I think Boston is even worse than NY to it's sports teams (back page of the Post not withstanding).

[WindowSill]

Hudson to the Braves (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1947892)

Beltre to the Ms (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1947751)

As far as the Boston media goes, I dont feel theyre worse than the New York media. Plus theres just more media members in NY than there is in Boston.

Cant say Im happy about the Hudson move as a Met fan. They now have a solid 3 man rotation there with Hudson, Smoltz, and Hampton and Horacio Ramirez and John Thompson are pretty good themselves, though inconsistent. Its a definite improvement over the staff they had last year basically just replacing Ortiz and Byrd with Hudson and Smoltz.

The Beltre deal is pretty big. I was expecting him to stay a Dodger but when you got a team hurling as much cash as the Mariners did, team loyalty takes a back seat. And again, from a Mets fan perspective, this works out well because it gives us a better chance of landing Delgado. I must give "props" to the Seattle front office though. They said theyd raise their payroll and go after the big names and theyve done just that. With their 3 allstars in Sexon, Beltre, and Ichiro, and even Boone, this is going to be a team to be reckoned with next season. The AL West is going to be one hell of a division and for the first time in a long time all 4 teams in the division will be in the running for a playoff spot.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Fallon]

Funny. (http://www.comedycentral.com/mp/play.jhtml?player=realplayer&type=v&quality=high&reposid=/multimedia/last_laugh/lastlaugh_leary.html)

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<img border=1 src="http://home.comcast.net/~rmfallon/RFnetSP.jpg">
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[HBox]

They got him. (http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-sprandy1217,0,3877851.story?coll=ny-homepage-big-pix)



Who lives in a body bag under the sea?

[WindowSill]

About fuckin time too...Id love to know how much money was involved in the transaction. I am a bit surprised that the DBAcks gave him up for Penny rather than Jackson.

20 bucks says RJ gets injured 3 weeks into the season though...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Crippler]

I can't believe they had to give up Vazquez, Navarro, and Duncan for this 41 year old fucker. I don't like this.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/71172486.jpg[color=white]

[Bulldogcakes]

The Yankee Rotation
Mike Mussina
Randy Johnson
Carl Pavano
Jarrod Wright
Kevin Brown

The Red Sox
Curt Schilling
Bronson Arroyo
David Wells
???
???

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[Fallon]

Tim Wakefield is four. John Halama might get a chance at the five spot if the Sox don't pick anybody up (which they probably will).

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This message was edited by WWFallon on 12-17-04 @ 12:33 AM

[WindowSill]

Can we wait till the deal is done? This is what, the 3rd time since the trade deadline that Johnsons been "traded" to the Yanks? (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1947995)

The Dodgers wanted him, why didnt they just grab him themselves...its their players doing to Arizona after all...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Bulldogcakes]

Tim Wakefield is four. John Halama might get a chance at the five spot if the Sox don't pick anybody up (which they probably will).

Wakefield's been in and out of the rotation so much his dick hurts. You're going to replace Derrick Lowe and Pedro Martinez (Who combined won more games than any 2 pitchers in baseball over the past 3 years) with David Wells and John Halama? Good luck
Plus, who's left (of quality) to pick up? Odalis Perez? Matt Clement? I cant wait to face these guys. After Hudson went off the board, all of your options are downgrades from last years team

I may have to subtract Johnson. MLB.com says the deal still has big roadblocks.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 12-17-04 @ 6:50 AM

[WindowSill]

Plus, who's left (of quality) to pick up? Odalis Perez? Matt Clement?


Funny you should say that, because the Sox just signed Matt Clement to a 3 year deal worth 25.5 million dollars....the rotation is starting to look better.... (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1948656)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Fallon]

I'm a little worried about the Sox rotation in April since Schilling won't be ready to go. 22 of the 24 games that month are verse AL East teams.

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[Bulldogcakes]

Fallon, If I were you, I'd be. My opinion all along has been half of Pedro is better than most pitchers. As a Yankee fan, I cant wait to face your rotation, especially in Fenway. Renteria was a good move, but the rest of the Sox's off season has them moving backwards. Theo has the idea that rather than spend big money (14mil) on one guy, he'd rather fill two holes with two 7mil players. It's a good idea for POSITION PLAYERS. The playoffs are about pitching, namely dominant pitching.

BTW Opening day in Fenway. Curt Schilling (He'll be ready) vs Randy Johnson
(in this weeks Celebrity Deathmatch)

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 12-18-04 @ 9:51 PM

[BoondockSaint]

A's deal Mulder to Cards. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1949157)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/liamsig.jpg

[Bulldogcakes]

Oh shit! Mulder to Cards? As if the Cards weren't the favorites in the NL to begin with, now they have 2 top pitchers (Carpenter/Mulder), which makes them real tough in the playoffs. I guess Billy Beane is breaking it down and starting over again. Which could mean Barry Zito is next.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[Snoogans]

but the rest of the Sox's off season has them moving backwards

lowe and wells are a wash

clement is pretty damn good, the cubs just blow, he is gonna have a real good year, we will be fine

http://home.comcast.net/~rmfallon/RFnetSnoogs.jpg
http://snoogans194.blogspot.com/
GO SAWX!!!!!
The worst choke job in the history of sports Snoogans 1, Monitor 0

[WindowSill]

WOW! The Mulder deal came out of nowhere. The prospects they got are the same ones the Cards offered for Tim Hudson, guess Oakland really wanted them. Im not sure what this means for Zito though....could mean they want to keep him....if they wanted to get rid of him, theyd have done so as early as the trade deadline...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.


This message was edited by WindowSill on 12-18-04 @ 10:11 PM

[BoondockSaint]

WOW! The Mulder deal came out of nowhere. The prospects they got are the same ones the Cards offered for Tim Hudson, guess Oakland really wanted them. Im not sure what this means for Zito though....could mean they want to keep him....if they wanted to get rid of him, theyd have done so as early as the trade deadline...



Well, they wanted to get rid of the other two and didn't do it at the trade deadline. Maybe they are waiting for the right deal for Zito.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/liamsig.jpg

This message was edited by BoondockSaint on 12-18-04 @ 10:19 PM

[HBox]

IF IF IF these trades work out for the A's, forget about Big 3, they could have a Big 5 in 2-3 years. Beane got hosed on the Hudson deal, but this one was highway robbery.



Who lives in a body bag under the sea?

This message was edited by HBox on 12-18-04 @ 10:20 PM

[HBox]

I just saw on ESPN.com, although I can't read the article because I don't subscribe to Insider, that Pedro is wooing Varitek to come to the Mets.



Who lives in a body bag under the sea?

[WindowSill]

The Mets had also been talking to Scott Boras about Varitek before hand. Who knows, maybe them bringing Pedro over could put that over the top...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[HBox]

Why not? Double the pleasure of the first half of these deals, and double the misery of the last half.



Who lives in a body bag under the sea?

[WindowSill]

Says the Yankee fan who currently under contract has Kevin Brown, Mike Mussina, Jaret Wright, and Jason Giambi. And soon a 41 year old pitcher for whom they are trading a young and potential filled Javier Vasquez and their 2 top prospects...

I take Pedro and Varitek over Brown or Mussina and Posada any day over the next 4 years...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[HBox]

I take Pedro and Varitek over Brown or Mussina and Posada any day over the next 4 years...


Mets fans are so cute.

Seriously though, other than Giambi there's no point. At least we can say we didn't initally sign Brown, and when it's a choice between Brown or Weaver, it's an easy choice. Jaret Wright hasn't pitched a game for the Yanks yet, let's at least wait until he falls on his face. Besides, do I need to mention the contracts of Glavine, Piazza, Floyd, Vaughn and Benson? They'd love to get rid of all of them except Benson, and just give them time on that one. It's about equal to the Wright signing in stupidity.

But fine, take Pedro and Varitek. I'll GLADLY take Mussina and Posada. Mussina may be older, but he has more than 10% of his shoulder left too. And Posada I think has one or two years left. If they sign him long term beyond that, that's a a problem. For the rest of his contract, he's second to Pudge in the AL.



Who lives in a body bag under the sea?

[TheGameHHH]

But fine, take Pedro and Varitek. I'll GLADLY take Mussina and Posada

Just out of curiousity, are you or are you not making this statement with the 2004 ALCS in mind?

EDIT* I'm not saying Pedro won it for the Sox or Moose lost it for the Yanks....this is just out of genuine curiousity.



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This message was edited by TheGameHHH on 12-19-04 @ 4:46 AM

[ChickenHawk]

Varitek declines arbitration (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20041220&content_id=924254&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp)

<IMG SRC="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=ChickenHawk">
HORDE KING FOREVER!!! ORACLE NEVER!!!
<strike>Shock</strike>
<marquee behavior=alternate><font size=2><b>EMFA</b></font></marquee>[color=white]

[WindowSill]

Well, they wanted to get rid of the other two and didn't do it at the trade deadline. Maybe they are waiting for the right deal for Zito.


Surprisingly, I was right.... (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=klapisch_bob&id=1950110)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Iamnotatool]

Billy Beane is a smart dude. I wouldn't bet against him.

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/iamnotatool.gif>
Please don't hold my huge nutbag against me, or I'll hold it against you that you have flapjack tits

[WindowSill]

Billy Beane is a smart dude. I wouldn't bet against him.


I dunno, that front office hasnt been the same since Paul DePostesta left for LA.

Angels signed Orlando Cabrera for 32 mill over 4 years (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1950426)

Boston traded Dave Roberts for Ramon Vasquez, Jay Payton and a minor leaguer (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1950429)

And apparently theres a new FA "big name" pitcher on the market as the Astros decide not to keep Wade Miller (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1950421)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[WindowSill]

Randy Johnson deal falls through.....AGAIN (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1951207)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[WindowSill]

Hours after bailing on the Johnson deal, Dodgers sign J.D. Drew (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1951346)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[WindowSill]

Duque signs with the ChiSox (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1952009)

Miller signs with the BoSox (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1951927)

Red Sox's rotation is improving...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/JetSill.gif

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Bulldogcakes]

Duque signs with the ChiSox (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1952009)


Sorry to see El Duque go. I love to watch him pitch, one of my all-time favorite Yanks. Yanks weren't going to give him 2 years. I'd rather give him 2 than Jarrod Wright 3. I'd rather have Eric Milton, El Duque or Leiber over Jarrod Wright. But, were talking about the 5th starter. Its no biggie either way.



Miller signs with the BoSox (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1951927)

Red Sox's rotation is improving...

The Red Sox rotation is crumbling. You replace Pedro Martinez with David Wells (a lefty fly ball pitcher in Fenway) A guy with lousy #s at Fenway, look them up.
Then you replace Derrick Lowe, who won the second most games in the AL (behind Pedro) over the past 3 years With Matt Clement? (Look up his #s)

Now you get the Astros 5th starter?

Good Luck! Good Luck finishing ahead of the Orioles, who are improved over last year. Forget the Yanks once they get Randy Johnson.



http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


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[WindowSill]

Fuck, Alou signs with the Giants (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1952146)

Thats what the Mets get for focusing all their attention on Delgado.



Good Luck! Good Luck finishing ahead of the Orioles, who are improved over last year. Forget the Yanks once they get Randy Johnson.


Funny, i remember the exact same thing being said when the Yankees got ARod last year....oh, and Sheffield....oh and Brown.....



Now you get the Astros 5th starter?


Call me naive, but I think an ERA in the low-mid 3's is pretty fuckin good for a 5th starter....so is 16 and 8 with a 3.40 ERA and 183 Ks....oh and 15-4 with a 3.28 ERA while playing on 26 games....and even his 2003 campaign when he went 14-13 with a 4.13 ERA and a 161 Ks is just as good...no, better than every Yankee starter from last year....


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Bulldogcakes]

Funny, i remember the exact same thing being said when the Yankees got ARod last year....oh, and Sheffield....oh and Brown.....

Do you honestly believe the Sox are better this year over last? I think the Yanks have made significant improvements (on a 100 win team). I think the Sox are moving backwards pitching wise, which in Baseball is the most important category. I thought the Sox were very dangerous last year because, for the first time in my memory, they had 2 big time pitchers and a closer. I dont see that this year.

Call me naive, but I think an ERA in the low-mid 3's is pretty fuckin good for a 5th starter....so is 16 and 8 with a 3.40 ERA and 183 Ks....oh and 15-4 with a 3.28 ERA while playing on 26 games....and even his 2003 campaign when he went 14-13 with a 4.13 ERA and a 161 Ks is just as good...no, better than every Yankee starter from last year....


He's so good, why are the Astros letting him go? This is not a free agent, its a non tender. The guy has a bad rotator cuff, which doesn't get better overnight. Usually not for over a year AFTER surgery, which as best I can tell, he hasn't even had yet. The Wells move was a desperate one because the Sox were certain they were getting Pavano. This is another flailing move by the Sox.




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[A.J.]

The Red Sox rotation is crumbling. You replace Pedro Martinez with David Wells (a lefty fly ball pitcher in Fenway) A guy with lousy #s at Fenway, look them up.

There are road games too.

Good Luck! Good Luck finishing ahead of the Orioles, who are improved over last year.

Offensively maybe but improved with what else? Did they even get anybody in the offseason? Certainly not the pitching they desperately need. I don't see them riding the arm of Sidney Ponson alone. (apologies to Mikeyboy)

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[Bulldogcakes]

Sep. 24 Dr. Lewis Yocum recommended that Wade Miller rest his ailing right shoulder for 6-8 weeks, according to the Houston Chronicle. "I don't think any of us know where we're headed, and we've just got to treat the symptoms," GM Gerry Hunsicker said of Miller's frayed rotator cuff.
Sep. 15 Wade Miller finally gave up his attempt to return from a frayed rotator cuff and has shut himself down for the remainder of the season, according to the Houston Chronicle. He said surgery isn't an option right now, but he will seek a second opinion from Dr. Lewis Yocum.

I'm amazed at Sox fans, who were always so tough on their team, and especially the front office. They've made one shit move after another this off-season and I barely hear a peep from Red Sox nation. WAKE UP!





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[Bulldogcakes]

The Red Sox rotation is crumbling. You replace Pedro Martinez with David Wells (a lefty fly ball pitcher in Fenway) A guy with lousy #s at Fenway, look them up.

There are road games too.

Oh great, sign a guy who right off will suck in half the games he pitches in. Plus, you want him to face the Yanks in the playoffs in Fenway Park? You rather have Wells or Pedro in that spot?



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[A.J.]

Oh great, sign a guy who right off will suck in half the games he pitches in.

You just described Derek Lowe. Yeah, he pitched great in the post-season but during the regular season you never knew which DLowe was going to show up. Plus his ass was saved on numerous occasions by Boston's bats and the bullpen.

Plus, you want him to face the Yanks in the playoffs in Fenway Park?

I trust Boomah's playoff experience. Besides, Game 2 will probably be at Yankee Stadium, not Fenway. And in last year's series starters didn't last too long in most of the games anyway.

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This message was edited by AJinDC on 12-23-04 @ 7:57 AM

[WindowSill]

OK, explain to me why the Mets signing Pedro or the Sox signing Miller is a guaranteed disaster while the Yankees have gone out and traded for Kevin Brown who was a) 38, b) would make over 15 million that year, c) ALWAYS INJURED!

Or, if that doesnt do it for you, what about Sheffield? How is the acqusition of Gary with his bum elbow diffferent from Pedro and his bum shoulder?

If anyones rotation is moving backwards its the Yankees with the loss of Duque and the aqcuisition of Wright.


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[WindowSill]

On a different note...the Mets are expected to sign 43 year old 1st baseman Andres Galaraga (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=fanball-metsgalarragaexpecte&prov=fanball&type=lgns)

While youre at it, why not re-sign Mo Vaugn? Who needs Moises Alou, when we can get Gallaraga who missed most of last season with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[A.J.]

On a different note...the Mets are expected to sign 43 year old 1st baseman Andres Galaraga (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=fanball-metsgalarragaexpecte&prov=fanball&type=lgns)

While youre at it, why not re-sign Mo Vaugn? Who needs Moises Alou, when we can get Gallaraga who missed most of last season with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.


Or bring back Jesse Orosco.

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Red Sox Nation

[Crippler]

On a different note...the Mets are expected to sign 43 year old 1st baseman Andres Galaraga (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=fanball-metsgalarragaexpecte&prov=fanball&type=lgns)
Holy crap, when someone brought up Galaraga's name last week, I thought they were goofing about the fact that the Mets would even be talking to someone taht old & past his production years. This signing befuddles me, but hey, I'm not a Mets fan so rock on!

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/71172486.jpg[color=white]

[WindowSill]

Well its not like theyre giving him millions of dollars...theyre just giving him a shot to make the team in spring training...


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Iamnotatool]

As far as hearing a peep from RedSox Nation, they are on the 5 year rule. Your team wins the Series, they have 5 years to do whatever they want without getting bitched at for it.

As far as Derrick Lowe goes, he sucked until they traded Nomar, and got a SS that could play some Defense. Lowe is a ground ball puitcher, having a seive up the middle doesn't boost you confidence.

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Please don't hold my huge nutbag against me, or I'll hold it against you that you have flapjack tits

[MHasegawa]

Galaraga backwards is Galaraga, Bob Murphy!!

Who is Karim Garcia?? I no respect heem.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/DKMH1/Misc/MHIRON.gif">

[WindowSill]

Sox close to resigning Varitek at 10 million a year (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1952658)

I understand they want to resign him a lot, but there is no way this guy is worth 40 million over 4 years. Waste of money on the Red Sox part but this is the guy that lead them to the WS, so good for them...


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Iamnotatool]

5 year rule. BoSox fans cant say shit. And Tek is a hitting machine, and bitch slapped ARod, that alone paid for this deal.

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[Bulldogcakes]

OK, explain to me why the Mets signing Pedro or the Sox signing Miller is a guaranteed disaster while the Yankees have gone out and traded for Kevin Brown who was a) 38, b) would make over 15 million that year, c) ALWAYS INJURED!

I never said Pedro was a bad move for the Mets.
I think the Sox were nuts to let him get away.
If you've read any of my posts (maybe you're not talking about me)
thats been my whole point.

Or, if that doesnt do it for you, what about Sheffield? How is the acqusition of Gary with his bum elbow diffferent from Pedro and his bum shoulder?

Oh, I dont know. Maybe it was his being runner up in MVP VOTING!!
THIS IS A BAD MOVE??!! GET A CLUE!

If anyones rotation is moving backwards its the Yankees with the loss of Duque and the aqcuisition of Wright.

I stay up nights worrying about my fifth starter.
BTW If Jarrod Wright (who's signing I didn't like, I wanted El Duque back)
was signed by the Sox, He'd be their #2.
Sill, your a good Sox fan but I think your drinking the Kool aid.

Anyway, if I dont talk to you before, have a very Merry Christmas.




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This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 12-23-04 @ 8:24 PM

[Bulldogcakes]

As far as hearing a peep from RedSox Nation, they are on the 5 year rule. Your team wins the Series, they have 5 years to do whatever they want without getting bitched at for it

Thanks Tool. I haven't been able to figure out the complete personality change.

As far as Derrick Lowe goes, he sucked until they traded Nomar, and got a SS that could play some Defense. Lowe is a ground ball puitcher, having a seive up the middle doesn't boost you confidence.


Now, now! Dont try to introduce logic to this discussion! It'll get you nowhere!

Tool, if I dont talk to you before, have a Merry Christmas!





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[WindowSill]

Or, if that doesnt do it for you, what about Sheffield? How is the acqusition of Gary with his bum elbow diffferent from Pedro and his bum shoulder?


Oh, I dont know. Maybe it was his being runner up in MVP VOTING!! THIS IS A BAD MOVE??!! GET A CLUE!


I didnt say it was a bad move, I said its similar to the Pedro signing because they both have had injury problems. If you want to play the MVP card, then you could make the case for Pedro and how well he pitched with what is said to be a 90% tear in his labrum.




If anyones rotation is moving backwards its the Yankees with the loss of Duque and the aqcuisition of Wright.


I stay up nights worrying about my fifth starter.
BTW If Jarrod Wright (who's signing I didn't like, I wanted El Duque back) was signed by the Sox, He'd be their #2.
Sill, your a good Sox fan but I think your drinking the Kool aid.
Anyway, if I dont talk to you before, have a very Merry Christmas.



Im a Mets fan, not a Sox fan. The reason Ive been commenting on Boston and the Yankees so much is because theyve been the ones making all the moves and I strongly disagree with your comments on the Sox pitching staff and team in general as well as the double standard you set up when you talk about the BoSox in comparison to the almighty Yankees.


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.


This message was edited by WindowSill on 12-23-04 @ 8:25 PM

[Bulldogcakes]

Im a Mets fan, not a Sox fan. The reason Ive been commenting on Boston and the Yankees so much is because theyve been the ones making all the moves and I strongly disagree with your comments on the Sox pitching staff and team in general as well as the double standard you set up when you talk about the BoSox in comparison to the almighty Yankees.

Here's what Met, Sox and every other fan doesn't understand about Yankee fans. There is ONE standard. Winning the World Series. Period. Not getting through the regular season with a "chance" to do "something". Winning the World Series. If the Sox brought back last years team intact, I think they'd have an EXCELLENT chance to repeat.

I'm talking about good baseball moves. Not money. Your comment about "almighty" Yankees says more to me about your insecurity about your team than anything that has to do with baseball. Same goes when people throw around the word "arrogant". They start using it when they're out of ammunition. Which for some people, is the minute they open their mouth (not you Sill)
Cant win an arguement, Start name calling.

Sill, I dont want to start a fight here so close to Christmas.
Again, have a Merry Christmas.

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This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 12-23-04 @ 9:43 PM

[Iamnotatool]

Bulldog, hell with the holidays, lets get into this.


You can not honestly think the Yanks have upgraded all that much. You have Pavano, a sub-.500 pitcher who had one good year. Jared Wright, who I loved....7 years and lotsa arm problems ago.

Giambino, who by the way you outbid yourselves to overpay for when it was "his dream" to play for the Yankees. How's that money holding up. I don't like to get into the whole "Yanks spend more than God" argument, but where it does ring true, is situations like these. I've heard the Yanks are gonna make a push for Delgado, another $10+million dollar player, to replace Giambi, a guy they still owe a TON of money to, and have NO CHANCE of getting out from that contract. No other team could afford to do that. You can't argue this, so please don't.

Now you're gonna go after my man Carlos Beltran too, which I agree is a wise move being he's so young and good, but what the fuck? Payroll gonna be $225mil this year? $250?

The best signing the Yanks have made is Tony Womack, even though Enrigue was a serviceable player, Womack does the little things and has a pair of balls. Something a lot of current Yanks mayormaynot have.

The best overall move though, was picking up Frankie Rodriguez. That spalafuccine throws smoke.

M-E-T-S METS METS METS!!! I pray the Mets get Carlos Beltran. PRAY!!!!!!!!!!!

If the Mets sign C.Beltran, I'll give up porn forever.

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Please don't hold my huge nutbag against me, or I'll hold it against you that you have flapjack tits

[Fallon]

If the Sox brought back last years team intact, I think they'd have an EXCELLENT chance to repeat.
The Sox starting lineup is the same except for shortstop, and Renteria is better than Cabrera. They lost Pedro and Lowe from the rotation and picked up a handful of guys to take their place. If they don't work out Theo will get a front line starter during the season.

<center>
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</center><font color=white>

[Bulldogcakes]

You can not honestly think the Yanks have upgraded all that much. You have Pavano, a sub-.500 pitcher who had one good year. Jared Wright, who I loved....7 years and lotsa arm problems ago.

If/when the Yanks get Randy Johnson, I start looking at NL teams for World Series opponents. I dont see anyone in the AL who stacks up.
As for Pavano, pitchers usually take time to mature. Pavano sucked earlier in his career. He's been excellent for the last year 1/2 (and the post season).
I dont like the Jarrod Wright signing, but he's the 5th starter, so I wont go nuts. I'd rather have El Duque and/or Leiber.

Giambino, who by the way you outbid yourselves to overpay for when it was "his dream" to play for the Yankees. How's that money holding up. I don't like to get into the whole "Yanks spend more than God" argument, but where it does ring true, is situations like these. I've heard the Yanks are gonna make a push for Delgado, another $10+million dollar player, to replace Giambi, a guy they still owe a TON of money to, and have NO CHANCE of getting out from that contract. No other team could afford to do that. You can't argue this, so please don't.

Oh yes I can. Here's my all purpose question for you payroll folks.
If the Yankees spent 250 mil and finished in last place, would you care?
Would they be ruining the sport? Answer No. No one claims the NY Rangers
are ruining Hockey. Because they dont win.
So is the problem REALLY that the Yanks spend money? Or that the Yanks win?
Yankee haters always resent the Yanks winning. Now they hide behind payroll. Same old Yankee hating.



The best signing the Yanks have made is Tony Womack, even though Enrigue was a serviceable player, Womack does the little things and has a pair of balls. Something a lot of current Yanks mayormaynot have.

Agreed. They need some injuns, not just Chiefs



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This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 12-23-04 @ 11:02 PM

[WindowSill]

Look, whats the point of speculating how good or bad these pitchers are going to be? I mean just look at the guys that did so well in 03 and then sucked last year, and not just Yankees....Halladay, Loaiza, Lowe...and if you look at it, Loaiza has pretty shitty stats like Pavano and Wright did until the year where they were Cy Young candidates. And then, right back down to mediocrity we go. Lets not get on Miller, Wells, Clement, Pedro, Pavano, and Wright too much before theyve even put the uniform on for the first time...


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.


This message was edited by WindowSill on 12-23-04 @ 11:11 PM

[Fallon]

The 43-year-old first baseman, who has come back twice from non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, needs one home run to reach 400.
Well, I guess that's why he's playing another season.

Also, Astros are backing up the brinks truck with a six-year, $96 million offer.

And Eckstein signed with the cards. So Boston, St. Louis and Anahiem all filled their SS holes with players formerly on those three teams.

<center>
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</center><font color=white>

[WindowSill]

I think the Angels got the better end of that stick.

And I dont see anyway that Beltran would sign with the Astros at this point. The Astros are not going to be able outbid the Yankees, or the Red Sox, or the Mets. And they arent going to get him on the sole fact that they MIGHT still be a contender because they retained most of last years roster. Kent is gone. Clemens is gone after next year. Bagwell and Biggio and Pettite are at the tail ends of their respective careers.

The Yankees are obviously the favorite because...well, they have all the money in the world. But the Mets could jump in as well. Or we could have some other suprise team grab him while no one is looking like Anaheim did Vlad last year.


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[ADF]

Oh yes I can. Here's my all purpose question for you payroll folks.
If the Yankees spent 250 mil and finished in last place, would you care?
Would they be ruining the sport? Answer No. No one claims the NY Rangers
are ruining Hockey. Because they dont win.
So is the problem REALLY that the Yanks spend money? Or that the Yanks win?
Yankee haters always resent the Yanks winning. Now they hide behind payroll. Same old Yankee hating.



Yes I would.

The reason the Rangers don't win is they have poor management, no scheme, and bad attitudes. Even if none of that was the case and they still failed, the Rangers would be guilty of driving up the market and price of free-agents and making it virtually impossible for small-market teams to sign their best players.

The Yankees do the same, only they have all the necessary intangibles the Rangers don't. They're partly responsible for raising ticket prices in every ballpark.

The Yankees did, however, provide me with a great amount of joy when they supplied history with the <i>GREATEST CHOKE IN THE HISTORY OF SPORTS.</i>

Edit: I would just like to note that that last sentence is awful... not in content, but in structure.

<center><a href="http://somesuch.org" target="_blank"><img border="0" src="http://www.somesuch.org/sigpics/adfmas.gif"></a><br><br>And that's the end of my show.. donk.</center>

This message was edited by ADF on 12-23-04 @ 11:57 PM

[mikeyboy]

The Yankees did, however, provide me with a great amount of joy when they supplied history with the GREATEST CHOKE IN THE HISTORY OF SPORTS.


amen

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[Iamnotatool]

PS. I hate hockey more than life, but from what I understand, the Rangers DO have something do to with the ruining of hockey with all their bullshit contracts and eating up other teams bullshit contracts

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Please don't hold my huge nutbag against me, or I'll hold it against you that you have flapjack tits

[Fallon]

http://www.boston.com/images/daily/24/2varitek.jpg

First time I've ever seen a Sox jersey with the C on it.

<center>
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[Bulldogcakes]

Yes I would.
The reason the Rangers don't win is they have poor management, no scheme, and bad attitudes. Even if none of that was the case and they still failed, the Rangers would be guilty of driving up the market and price of free-agents and making it virtually impossible for small-market teams to sign their best players.

The Yankees do the same, only they have all the necessary intangibles the Rangers don't. They're partly responsible for raising ticket prices in every ballpark.

Thank you for bolstering my case. The Yanks win because of Good Management, Signing players with a winning attitude, and a well built team. And they have the money to make all this happen. Other teams have spent big (Mets, Orioles, Dodgers) and lost. Some have spent big (97 Marlins, Red Sox, Arizona) And won. Smaller market teams (2003 Marlins 50 mil, 2002 Angels 61 mil) have also won.

Biggest contracts in history
#1 A-rod Texas Rangers
#2 Barry Bonds SF Giants
Guess those are George's fault too.


The Yankees did, however, provide me with a great amount of joy when they supplied history with the GREATEST CHOKE IN THE HISTORY OF SPORTS.

No chance you're a Yankee hater. Sox fans will tell you it was the greatest COMEBACK in history. Depends on which side of the fence you're on, but haters can only see things from one side, so they're never more than half right. Usually less than that.


Another question for you Yankee haters. George wants to sell the Yanks tomorrow and buy YOUR team. You gonna stand in his way? For the "Good of Baseball"?

Yeah Right!


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This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 12-26-04 @ 8:53 AM

[WindowSill]

Biggest contracts in history
#1 A-rod Texas Rangers
#2 Barry Bonds SF Giants
Guess those are George's fault too.


And where is ARod right now? And what, you think that if Bonds was ever available the Yankees wouldnt go out and get him? And lets face it, Giambi, Jeter, Sheffield, and Brown are all making a nice chunk of change there too, though not 20 million. Not to mention Posada, Moose, Vasquez, Mariano, and now Pavano.


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[WindowSill]

Oh yes, and the most overrated pitcher of last year, Jose Lima returns to Kansas City (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1953276)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/lindsaysig.bmp

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Bulldogcakes]

Oh leave poor Jose alone. He has enough problems.
Click Here (http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/Forum/82/Topic/42790/page/Lima_must_pay_Houston_woman_500K_for___.htm)

BTW The Yanks didn't SIGN A-Rod to that ridiculous contract, and are paying him (only) $16 mil per

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This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 12-26-04 @ 8:58 AM

[Bulldogcakes]

Not to mention Posada, Moose, Vasquez, Mariano, and now Pavano.

Why do people say "not to mention" and then mention it?
If you say "not to mention", it should be the end of the sentence.





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[WindowSill]

Why do people say "not to mention" and then mention it?
If you say "not to mention", it should be the end of the sentence.



Why do people try to nitpick the other persons statement when they have no good response of their own?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/lindsaysig.bmp

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Bulldogcakes]

Just a pet peeve. Dont take it personal. Everybody does it, it just doesn't make (literal) sense to me. There's alot of phrases people use that when you think about dont add up.
"The whole shebang"
"Fight fire with fire"
"Down the tubes"
"Legally Drunk"

George Carlin does a whole bit on this stuff.



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Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[WindowSill]

Beltran to meet with the Mets (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1953462)

Like Tool said, if they get him Im giving up porn forever...


...well....maybe not..."forever" forever....just until the next time I get lonely...

Minaya will also meet with Pitcher Odalis Perez (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1953810)


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.


This message was edited by WindowSill on 12-27-04 @ 1:45 PM

[A.J.]

http://www.boston.com/images/daily/24/2varitek.jpg

First time I've ever seen a Sox jersey with the C on it.

<center>
<img border=1 src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=WWFallon">
</center><font color=white>

I'm glad they resigned Tek but did they officially name him Captain as well? I hope so -- he's earned the title. And I believe he's the first Sox Captain since Yaz.

EDIT: I guess they DID name him Captain (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpcDBuM2RlBF9TAzk1ODYxNzc3BHNlYwN0 aA--?slug=ap-redsox-varitek&prov=ap&type=lgns) I forgot Jim Rice was Captain from 1985-1989.

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Red Sox Nation

This message was edited by AJinDC on 12-27-04 @ 7:37 AM

[WindowSill]

Yes he was officially named captain (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1953052)

Last team captain was actually Jim Rice from 1985 to 89. Yaz was captain before him in 66 and from 69 - 83.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/lindsaysig.bmp

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[WindowSill]

Looks like Millwood is going to the Indians (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1953604)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/lindsaysig.bmp

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Crippler]

AP reports Milton to Reds (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=545&ncid=755&e=3&u=/ap/20041227/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbn_reds_milton)

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/71172486.jpg[color=white]

[WindowSill]

Yankees bring back TIno (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1956045)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/lindsaysig.bmp

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[BoondockSaint]

Mets to meet with Beltran on Tuesday. (http://www.nynewsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spmets014101907jan01,0,788795.story?coll=ny-baseball-headlines)



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/liamsig.jpg

[Bulldogcakes]

I hope the Mets get Beltran. The Yanks dont need him, plus I dont get the impression they're all that interested. They haven't even made an offer, just like w/Pedro. He would improve the Mets alot, and they need an outfielder badly. Plus with Beltran in center, Cameron in left, you could put a Monkey in right field w/ all the ground those 2 cover.

One thing though. I hope the #'s being mentioned are wrong. 6 years 96mil? That's 16 mil per. What the Yanks are paying A-Rod. It is Boras, so crazy #'s will be thrown around (He wants 10yrs 200 mil) But look up his stats. He's a very good ballplayer. Does everything well. An excellent addition to any team. But not an elite guy stat wise
Beltrans #'s ( http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=6132&context=batting )

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[WindowSill]

The Astros are the ones who offered him 96 mill over 6 years. The number thats actually being talked about by Scott Boras is 112 million over 7 years plus option years after that. Astros are obviously not going to go that high but if anyone will overpay for a free agent its the Mets (See Kris Benson, Pedro Martinez)


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Iamnotatool]

Cakes, you are nuts. What Beltran brings ateam, not even ARod can bring in my opinion. Beltran fills up every stat in the book, minus K's. He's young, incredibly fast, very baseball-smart.

His only downer is being repped by Bore-ass.

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/iamnotatool.gif>
Please don't hold my huge nutbag against me, or I'll hold it against you that you have flapjack tits

[Bulldogcakes]

First 3467 AB's

A-Rod Beltran
693 RUNS 616
1067 HITS 985
215 HR's 146
.321 BA .284
681 SO 641

What Beltran brings, not even A-Rod? Sure about that?
They're both good defensively, and played important defensive positions (SS/CF)
But you cant argue Beltrans a better hitter. It aint so.


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This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 1-2-05 @ 6:28 PM

[Iamnotatool]

Yeah, but has Beltran ever bitch slapped a pitcher trying to cover 1B's glove causing himself to be out, rather than sliding and being safe??? Nope.

Haha!


Sorry, had to rub that in.

I'd take Beltran any day. True, they are different players, true ARod is great, but I'd take Beltran

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Please don't hold my huge nutbag against me, or I'll hold it against you that you have flapjack tits

[Bulldogcakes]

Yeah, but has Beltran ever bitch slapped a pitcher trying to cover 1B's glove causing himself to be out, rather than sliding and being safe??? Nope.
Haha!
Sorry, had to rub that in.

That was so fuckin bush league, it's embarassing. I cant argue w/you on that.
And the worst part is the idiot pitcher was blocking the basepath, so he might have got the call that way.

Either way though, the way the Yanks were swinging the bats after game 4, it would have took a miracle. I'm glad Girardi is the new bench coach. He wont let that shit slip by the way Torre does. I also think he's the next manager after Torre. Very smart. Natural leader. People used to say that about him when he was playing.

BTW You cant go wrong w/Beltran he's a helluva player.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 1-2-05 @ 7:01 PM

[WindowSill]

Id take Beltran over ARod as well. Theyre both gold glovers, theyre both gonna hit homers and drive in runs. The only category that Beltran really has ARod beat in is the stolen bases. Other than that theyre pretty even. But when I think about who I would rather have in the club house, a guy that led the Astros through their playoff run both on the field and off or the guy that decided to play GM in Texas just because hes ARod and went out and recruited guys like Chan Ho Park and then convinced management to sign them. And who would you rather have at bat in a meaningful situation? Arod or Beltran? I take Beltran anyday because he just provides things that numbers dont show, and I feel that ARod does not.


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Bulldogcakes]

Sill, you thought those #'s were pretty even? We must be seeing different #'s.

Let me throw this at you
A-Rod
SEASONAL AVERAGES (per 162 games played)
Years-G---AB---R---H-2B-3B-HR-RBI-BB-SO-SB-CS-AVG-OBP-SLG-OPS
8.83 162 633 127 193 35 3 43 124 72 128 23 6 .305 .381 .574 .955

Beltran
SEASONAL AVERAGES (per 162 games played)
Years-G---AB---R---H--2B-3B-HR-RBI-BB-SO-SB-CS-AVG-OBP-SLG-OPS
5.46 162 635 113 180 32 10 27 104 68 117 35 4 .284 .353 .490 .843

Think you'd win a few more games over the course of the season(s) with that extra production?

And A-Rod was great his first post season against the Yanks (400+ BA)




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This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 1-2-05 @ 7:38 PM

[WindowSill]

Beltran as just entered his prime. ARods been there for a while now. If both ARod and Beltran were Free Agents right now, both available and willing to come to the Mets, I would rather have Carlos Beltran than Alex Rodriguez...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/lindsaysig.bmp

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The Angels have a new name, Say it 10 times fast

Angels new name (http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3292736)

[WindowSill]

The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim...yeah, thatll catch on.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/lindsaysig.bmp

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Crippler]

Just like the Chicago Bears...presented by Bank One! Except, at least the whores in the Bears front office got cash for that embarassment. This is apparently just a stupid marketing move.

It really ticks me off that people get paid for coming up with schlock like this instead of being beaten about the head & shoulders & told to go sit in da fuckin' ba'troom.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/71172486.jpg[color=white]

This message was edited by Crippler on 1-3-05 @ 3:33 PM

[WindowSill]

Speaking of LA, the Dodgers have officially agreed to send Green to the DBacks for prospects. Apparently the Dodgers, for reasons unbeknownst to me, want to free up payroll to sign Derek Lowe...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/lindsaysig.bmp

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Crippler]

He actually might really thrive in the Ravine. Granted, I'm not sure who'll be scoing the runs for him without Green or Beltre, but best of luck to him if they get it done. I certainly won't miss him pitching against the Yankees. You never knew if he was going to knocked out in the 1st inning or pitch 8 innings of 2-hit ball.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/71172486.jpg[color=white]

[WindowSill]

Well they only traded Green because they signed Drew. Hee Seop Choi who theyre gonna have at 1st has a lot of potential. They still got Milton Bradley. And, oh yeah, they also signed Kent. So the offense isnt all that much worse considering Green hasnt been the same player as he was in 2002 these last 2 years.


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[TheGameHHH]

When I saw ESPN slide across the bottom of the screen the new name of the Angels I actually thought it was a joke. I was positive somebody got stoned and decided to have some fun while at work.

<IMG SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/monster6sixty6/guests/hhh3_sig.gif">

[Fallon]

It's worse than The Mighty Ducks of Anaheim.

What the fuck is wrong with this city?

<center>
<img border=1 src="http://home.comcast.net/~rmfallon/RFnetNHL.jpg">
</center><font color=white>

[Bulldogcakes]

Beltran as just entered his prime. ARods been there for a while now. If both ARod and Beltran were Free Agents right now, both available and willing to come to the Mets, I would rather have Carlos Beltran than Alex Rodriguez...

You sir, are out of your mind. Try to get past your Yankee hatred long enough to think clearly. The #'s aren't close, and A-Rod has put up great #'s for 8 straight years. Beltran has done it for ONE. (BTW Last year was considered an off year for A-Rod, career year for Beltran and they were about the same) Call me in seven years. Assuming A-Rod stays healthy, he will end up as an all-time great, possibly with every record in the book. Beltran is on track to be a very good ballplayer. So far, not close to a hall of famer. Sill, you're nuts.
BTW Every Met fan I know was SCREAMING to get A-Rod, and FURIOUS when Wilpon passed. Now you'd rather have Beltran?? Please.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[WindowSill]

What does me hating the Yankees have anything to do with my wanting Beltran more than ARod? Is Arod a great ball player? Absolutely, I think hes one of the best player to ever play the game. Was I upset when the Mets didnt sign ARod back then? Absolutely. That was then, this is now. Right now, I would rather they get Beltran than have ARod...whats your point?


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[mdr55]

When I saw ESPN slide across the bottom of the screen the new name of the Angels I actually thought it was a joke. I was positive somebody got stoned and decided to have some fun while at work.

I don't know, it kinda makes sense. They could do it over here.

The NJ Giants of New York
The NY Jets of New Jersey
The NJ Nets of Brooklyn, NY
The NY/NJ Metrostars of the Tri-state area

Remember the NY/NJ Knights football team???

[Bulldogcakes]

What does me hating the Yankees have anything to do with my wanting Beltran more than ARod? Is Arod a great ball player? Absolutely, I think hes one of the best player to ever play the game. Was I upset when the Mets didnt sign ARod back then? Absolutely. That was then, this is now. Right now, I would rather they get Beltran than have ARod...whats your point?

Wouldn't you want the best possible players on your team? I do.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[WindowSill]

I believe that Beltran brings more to the table than ARod does. The value of a player shouldnt only be measured by the numbers he puts up. But at the same time, lets not forget that Beltran is a great player as well...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/lindsaysig.bmp

I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[Bulldogcakes]

Maybe the word "Great" is bugging me. I dont throw that around lightly. He hit .267 last year. And has never put up 130, 140 RBI's. Or hit 40 HR's. Or hit .340. I just think he's very, very good. Five tool. But not "Great".

BTW Jeter isn't a "Great"player stats wise. He's a great leader, a winner. But not great all around hitter. Plays his role, does his job (get on base, move runners over)

Beltran was terriffic in the post season. But one series is a very small sample. Do it a few times before we call you Mr October.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/76422236.jpg


Ow! Hey! Get that net offa me! Ouch! Help!! Somebody HELP!!!!

[WindowSill]

We're talking Jeter now?

Why are we arguing about MY OPINION? I, as a baseball fan, and a New York Mets fan, at this stage of both their careers, would prefer to have Carlos Beltran on my team than Alex Rodriguez. Im not saying that Beltran is a better play than Rodriguez. Only that I would prefer Beltran...if you feel otherwise, more power to you man...


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I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

[BoondockSaint]

Mets offer Beltran more then $17 million a year. (http://www.nynewsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-sbmets044104109jan04,0,470306.story?coll=nyc-sports-headlines)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/liamsig.jpg

[Crippler]

I know going after one of the best players in the league is always a positive thing...but even if the Yanks decide that Beltran's price is too high & don't even get fully involved, does the Mets signing Beltran really make sense? They have Cameron to play center. They have been mentioned in a possible move of Sosa out of Chicago. They're apparently interested in Magglio Ordonez. They've been rumored to be interested in Delgado at 1st.

Wouldn't they be better off signing Ordonez to play right, letting Floyd play left (if healthy), keeping Cameron in center and signing additional bullpen help? Glavine's not getting any younger & is more "crafty" than power (=more pitches), Pedro tends to not go far beyond 100 pitches, Zambrano's walks cost him innings, etc.

Which lineup would Mets fans rather have:

1 Reyes
2 Floyd
3 Delgado
4 Piazza
5 Ordonez
6 Wright
7 Cameron
8 Matsui
+ bullpen help

or

1 Reyes
2 Floyd
3 Beltran
4 Piazza
5 Cameron
6 Wright
7 Matsui
8 Phillips/Wilson/Galarraga/ ?1B

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/71172486.jpg[color=white]

[A.J.]

The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim...yeah, thatll catch on.

The switch, which will be challenged in court by the city of Anaheim, is intended to help the team market itself to more of Southern California, attract more advertising sponsors and broadcast revenue, the team said Monday.

``We believe that the appeal in the marketplace will be broader,'' Angels spokesman Tim Mead said.

Personally, I think they should have stayed as the California Angels.

But I'm Old School like that.

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A Skidmark/canofsoup15 production.

Red Sox Nation

[BoondockSaint]

More like:
Reyes
Matsui
Beltran
Piazza
Wright
Cameron
Floyd
Mientkiewicz

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/liamsig.jpg

[WindowSill]

If they sign Beltran over Magglio and move Cameron to right, that improves their defense by a whole lot. Why sign Magglio just because hes played the position when you can have 2 Gold Glove Centerfielders manning 2 thirds of your outfield. They would still be able to keep Floyd in left though I doubt they will because I think Minaya really wants to get rid of him. Youre right about the bullpen help, but its not like the Mets would stop pursuing Delgado if they sign Beltran. And they might still trade Piazza, so wtf knows...

EDIT: Yeah, he works too...though I still think theyll sign Delgado.


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This message was edited by WindowSill on 1-4-05 @ 11:07 AM

[Crippler]

More like:
Reyes
Matsui
Beltran
Piazza
Wright
Cameron
Floyd
Mientkiewicz
I think Wright is going to be phenominal for a lot of years, but I don't hink he's quite ready to offer Piazza legit protection. And Mientkiewicz is quite an offensive step down from Delgado these days.

Why sign Magglio just because hes played the position when you can have 2 Gold Glove Centerfielders manning 2 thirds of your outfield.
True, two top flight defensive CF's is quite a nice thing to have, but Ordonez can absolutely play defense in right, has a better arm than Cameron, and is a much better hitter.

They would still be able to keep Floyd in left though I doubt they will because I think Minaya really wants to get rid of him. Youre right about the bullpen help, but its not like the Mets would stop pursuing Delgado if they sign Beltran.
I think Floyd will be gone too, and in fact of he isn't, Omar will have dropped the ball. But unless his market dries up & Delgado comes way back down to Earth in term of what he wants to be paid (or takes a one year deal to re-prove himself, etc.) I don't see any team entertaining the idea of signing Delgado and Beltran.

And they might still trade Piazza, so wtf knows...
True, in which case everything changes for the Mets & nothing we're talking about is viewed the same way. At that point (and depending who/what they get for him) they might need a Beltran to anchor the lineup.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/71172486.jpg[color=white]

[BoondockSaint]

I think Wright is going to be phenominal for a lot of years, but I don't hink he's quite ready to offer Piazza legit protection. And Mientkiewicz is quite an offensive step down from Delgado these days.


Yeah but like you said I can't see them getting both Delgado and Beltran. And Ordonez had two knee surgeries last year and refuses to work out for teams, so that scares me about him.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/liamsig.jpg

[Iamnotatool]

Crips,

Ordonez had experimental surgery in fucking Puerto Rico of all places, or Venezuala or somewhere like that. Wouldn't even work out for any teams after promising to do so.

His knee can give out like a joystick. No thanks.

I'll take either Beltran and Mantkavich (spelt it as wrong as possible on purpose to avoid trying to spell it properly), or both Carlos's. Thanks, drive through.

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Please don't hold my huge nutbag against me, or I'll hold it against you that you have flapjack tits

[Snoogans]

2 things to clue you guys in on. 1, meinkeiwitz isnt a FA, and boston isnt gonna trade him to you unless we rape you.

and 2, beltran makes perfect sense. now the mets can dump floyd for garbage and not have to worry about finding someone to take his place. that way, maybe you get a prospect or 2, and free up a few dollars to get a 1b.


the mets would be crazy to pass on Beltran

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[BoondockSaint]

And as far as Mets middle relief, I have two words. Felix Heredia!



ugh.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/liamsig.jpg

[Snoogans]

you dont need relievers, you got pedr...hmm
you dont need them, you got glav.....hmm

you dont need em, you got trach.....you guys are fucked

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