Pro-Bush Media Giant to Air Anti-Kerry Propaganda

[Yerdaddy]

...in prime-time, pre-empting the regular broadcasts, and commercial-free. They're calling it "news" even though it's the same shit as the Swift Boat Vets, the filmmaker, a former writer for the Washington Times, is the same clown who wrote a book called "Inquisition: The Persecution and Prosecution of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon" (who owns the Wash. Times). Plus, when was the last time ANY documentary pre-empted anything? "Fahrenheit 9/11" has no business being shown on network TV right now, and it won't be.

If the FEC and the FCC allow this then our democracy is a fucking sham.

<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22788-2004Oct10.html" target="_blank">Sinclair Stations to Air Anti-Kerry Documentary </a>

<a href="http://money.cnn.com/2004/10/11/news/newsmakers/sinclair_kerry/index.htm" target="_blank">Sinclair Broadcast Group orders its 62 stations to show movie next week; DNC files FEC complaint.</a>

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/11/politics/campaign/11film.html?ei=5090&en=a904a64134c0909c&ex=1255233600&partner=rssuserland&pagewanted=print&position=" target="_blank">TV Group to Show Anti- Kerry Film on 62 Stations</a>

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[TheMojoPin]

Pro or anti WHOEVER, that's a fucking scary command.

"ALL 62 STATIONS WILL PLAY THE ORDERED PROGRAMMING OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES."

Jesus. And only 20 years too late...

http://www.feldmangallery.com/media/1984/1984_01.jpg

Who the fuck ordered this, Min The Merciless?

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Se7en]

Shameful....

....but no less shameful than CBS faking memos in order to attack Bush.

Or ABC's Political Director flat-out telling his staff to give Kerry a free pass and to focus ABC's criticism squarely on Bush.

But goddamn that CONSERVATIVE bias - it's what's destroying our democracy.

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/7_sig.gif" width="300" height="100">
<br>
<br>
Don't blame me....I voted for Kodos.
I look forward to an orderly election that will eliminate the need for a violent bloodbath. </center>

[JerryTaker]

by the way, this is the same group that pre-empted Ted Koppel's reading of the names of the American soldiers killed in Iraq a few months back...

since you don't believe ME..... (http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Media_control:_Sinclair_Broadcast _Group)

<br><B>
[The Patriot Act has decreed this sig indecent, and has put JerryTaker under suspicion]</B>

[GodsFavoriteMan]

Do you think it'll actually sway votes, or simply energize the Republican base? I can't imagine that it'll recruit more voters to Bush, Republicans generally tend to vote en masse. From the little thought I've put into it, I think most undecideds are really people who are generally Republican but want a really good reason to vote for Bush, but they sure as shit aren't going to vote for Kerry. So, yeah, this company is bullshit and rediculous, but what can you do?

<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~stan_ferguson/GFMSIG_copy.jpg" width="300" height="107"></p>
"All I wanted was a Pepsi!"

[TheMojoPin]

Shameful....

....but no less shameful than CBS faking memos in order to attack Bush.

Or ABC's Political Director flat-out telling his staff to give Kerry a free pass and to focus ABC's criticism squarely on Bush.

But goddamn that CONSERVATIVE bias - it's what's destroying our democracy.

Yeah, but they didn't force their affiliates to carry the programs that may have been the result of these directives.

And CBS reported ABOUT documents that they claimed were authentic but turned out to be false...never has it been proven or even accused they faked them themselves. Good spin, though.

The main issue here isn't bias...it's how far can a media congolmerate go in dictating what we can and can't see? This is a frightening use of totalitarian practices, and it would be no less disconcerting if it was pro-Kerry.

I mean, for God's sake, what does it take for some of you people to see past your political allegiances? Usually there IS a larger universal issue. Christ.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[HBox]

Or ABC's Political Director flat-out telling his staff to give Kerry a free pass and to focus ABC's criticism squarely on Bush.

That's complete bullshit. Here's the memo.

It goes without saying that the stakes are getting very high for the country and the campaigns - and our responsibilities become quite grave

I do not want to set off (sp?) and endless colloquy that none of us have time for today - nor do I want to stifle one. Please respond if you feel you can advance the discussion.

The New York Times (Nagourney/Stevenson) and Howard Fineman on the web both make the same point today: the current Bush attacks on Kerry involve distortions and taking things out of context in a way that goes beyond what Kerry has done.

Kerry distorts, takes out of context, and mistakes all the time, but these are not central to his efforts to win.

We have a responsibility to hold both sides accountable to the public interest, but that doesn't mean we reflexively and artificially hold both sides "equally" accountable when the facts don't warrant that.

I'm sure many of you have this week felt the stepped up Bush efforts to complain about our coverage. This is all part of their efforts to get away with as much as possible with the stepped up, renewed efforts to win the election by destroying Senator Kerry at least partly through distortions.

It's up to Kerry to defend himself, of course. But as one of the few news organizations with the skill and strength to help voters evaluate what the candidates are saying to serve the public interest. Now is the time for all of us to step up and do that right.

Please, don't pull your usual hit and run and explain to me what's wrong with calling out one side when the facts warrant that.

Oh yeah, and CBS didn't fake the memos. It was lazy, incompetent and probably biased journalism, but they didn't fake the memos themselves, as you suggested.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

[Freebird]

Usually there IS a larger universal issue. Christ.

Now that's deep....and true.


Can they really do any more? Short of coming to everyone's home, switching all of them to CBS, strapping people in front of the tv's and holding their eyelids open.

It's not like anyone HAS to watch this. We lost good radio in New York thanks to people thinking they can't switch off their receivers.

-----------------------------
Now I'm starving

I'm about to turn it up a notch!

[Se7en]

The main issue here isn't bias...it's how far can a media congolmerate go in dictating what we can and can't see? This is a frightening use of totalitarian practices, and it would be no less disconcerting if it was pro-Kerry.

I mean, for God's sake, what does it take for some of you people to see past your political allegiances? Usually there IS a larger universal issue. Christ.


Would Yerdaddy have even posted this if this was a pro-Kerry, anti-Bush ad being run?

Have I seen him - or ANYONE here, including you - posting articles or outrage about the ABC memo, which DOES go beyond bias and trespasses onto how far a media outlet goes into dictating how the news is reported?

People will scream "UNFAIR!" like a motherfucker, until it falls into their own world view - then it's cool.

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/7_sig.gif" width="300" height="100">
<br>
<br>
Don't blame me....I voted for Kodos.
I look forward to an orderly election that will eliminate the need for a violent bloodbath. </center>

[TheMojoPin]

So that's the ONLY issue to you? Nothing else matters, only who this benefits or hurts politically? And, to use your own logic, you wouldn't have mentioned this at all if nobody else had. In fact, YOU'VE never started any kind of thread denouncing any practices of Bush or those that support him, so the finger you cast at me falls right back on yourself.

It's a bullshit strawman argument to ALWAYS hide behind bias. Especially since I was the person to break the news about CBS and the faked National Guard memos on this site, and criticized them for some damn sloppy journalism, contrary to what you've accused of me.

My point remains the same...is there not a larger issue here that transcends political affiliations? For ONCE, can we at least acknowledge that? Your only argument is against Yerdaddy's politics, and the rest of us, and ZERO input on the issue at hand.

Why?

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 10-11-04 @ 5:47 PM

[spoon]

Scariest Election Ever!

1984 is right.

<img src="http://members.aol.com/dxixrxt/spoon2.jpg">
And you may not like it! But you will learn to love it!

[Cybersoldier]

it was going to happen sooner or later, the conservative version the kind of movie moore has been making

<IMG SRC="http://publish.hometown.aol.com/cybersoldiernyc/myhomepage/cs_sig.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US">
Thanks for the sig monsterone

[Yerdaddy]

....but no less shameful than CBS faking memos in order to attack Bush.

Or ABC's Political Director flat-out telling his staff to give Kerry a free pass and to focus ABC's criticism squarely on Bush.

Cite your sources that CBS faked the memos rather than was duped, and that the ABC Director gave that order. Otherwise you've just proven, again, that this simply applies to you:


People will scream "UNFAIR!" like a motherfucker, until it falls into their own world view - then it's cool.


<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[FUNKMAN]

People will scream "UNFAIR!" like a motherfucker, until it falls into their own world view - then it's cool.


boohoo ... stop you're bawling dude

there is a new article out today

Bush Allies See Greater Terror Risk




the problem is the Bush supporters cannot admit to ANY faults or mistakes the President has made. it is the blind leading the blind. he wanted the trophy (Saddam) and never stopped to think about the cost...

if you call winning the war on terror having 1100 additional americans killed since 9/11 along with 6,000 americans who have lost limbs, sight, hearing, and a host of other major injuries then you are not living in reality. add in thousands of innocent iraqi people, spanish and russian people .
more people without healthcare, more people in poverty and 89 billion in tax cuts for the wealthiest. 60% of the people who found jobs after being laid off did so for jobs with less money while their cost-of-living expenses increased.

i'm not saying Kerry will do better but Bush has failed and due to his stubborn and obnoxious character refuses to admit any fault... the majority of the theme behind his campaign is to smear kerry. Why the frik can't he campaign on his own accomplishments?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=18&u=/ap/20041011/ap_on_go_pr_wh/ap_international_poll_5

<img src="http://www.grandfunkrailroad.com/covers/closer100.gif">


This message was edited by FUNKMAN on 10-11-04 @ 6:52 PM

[TheMojoPin]

Alright, look there's a zillion other threads about liberal vs. conservative, Iraq, the election, etc., etc....while that's all related to the topic here, don't spill out into a tangent. Keep it SOMEWHAT on topic.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Yerdaddy]

In case there's any question about the comparisons between this documentary and the Swift Boat Liars for Truth - <a href="http://www.stolenhonor.com/news/view.asp?id=14&page=" target="_blank">they are one and the same</a>:

WASHINGTON, DC (9/29/2004) - Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a non-partisan, non-profit group representing more than 250 Swift Boat veterans who served with Senator John Kerry in Vietnam, announced today they are joining forces with a group of American prisoners of war who were held captive by the North Vietnamese during the Vietnam War. The merger coincides with a new $1.4 million television ad campaign released by the new group Swift Vets and POWs For Truth...

The POWs also released a new 40 minute documentary titled Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal

So basically, here we have a Republican television network disguised as just a regular network forcably airing a movie-length Swift Boat ad disguised as a "news" broadcast, commercial-free, in prime-time, (the kind of programming people normally only get in major breaking news situations like 9-11) on 62 television stations including swing states, days before the election. I think we're giving the Iraqis our democracy.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[TheMojoPin]

commercial-free, in prime-time, (the kind of programming people normally only get in major breaking news situations like 9-11)

Or "Schindler's List."

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[keithy_19]

Or Miss Piggy unplugged.

http://64.177.177.182/katylina/tarasig.jpg

[mikeyboy]

Quiet, Keithy. Adults talking.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=mikeyboy">
Ron & Fez Show Log (http://www.osirusonline.com/ronfez.htm)
Just because you don't listen doesn't mean I don't have a radio show
The Music Mikey Likes Show on radiobbq, weekdays 12-2 (http://www.live365.com/stations/radiobbq)

[NewYorkDragons80]

I remember a lot of people complaining that the people who trashed F/911 hadn't seen it.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[GodsFavoriteMan]

I remember a lot of people complaining that the people who trashed F/911 hadn't seen it.



No comparison. One is on TV and one is in the theater and a person chooses to--and here's the key word--pay to watch it.

There is optional programming, but the problem in this case is that it is being forced upon the affiliates. It is propaganda for the right on public airwaves being forced upon the affiliates and that's unethical, though, far from illegal. And that's the complaint.

<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~stan_ferguson/GFMSIG_copy.jpg" width="300" height="107"></p>
"All I wanted was a Pepsi!"

[mikeyboy]

It also makes a difference if it's presented as news.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=mikeyboy">
Ron & Fez Show Log (http://www.osirusonline.com/ronfez.htm)
Just because you don't listen doesn't mean I don't have a radio show
The Music Mikey Likes Show on radiobbq, weekdays 12-2 (http://www.live365.com/stations/radiobbq)

[FUNKMAN]

desperate times lead to desperate measures...


i just made that up


really

<img src="http://www.grandfunkrailroad.com/covers/closer100.gif">

[TheMojoPin]

I remember a lot of people complaining that the people who trashed F/911 hadn't seen it.

Who's trashing the film here?

I see people trashing the group behind it.

I see people trashing the decision of a media corporation to use their TV stations to damn near FORCE people to see this film.

I see people trashing the corporation itself.

I DON'T see actual attacks on the film.

People, you don't HAVE to support these kinds of thugs and trash to support Bush/Republicans/Conservatism. Michael Moore has zero impact on my own liberalism. THESE ARE NOT TREEHOUSE CLUBS. Stop acting like children.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[extracheese]

I for one want to see this report. I think its important for us to get the info before we go to the voting booths:

The documentary, "Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal," chronicles Kerry's 1971 testimony before Congress and links him to activist and actress Jane Fonda. It includes interviews with Vietnam prisoners of war and their wives who claim Kerry's testimony - filled with "lurid fantasies of butchery in Vietnam" on the part of U.S. troops - demeaned them and led their captors to hold them longer.

The only guest - will be John Kerry, giving him the opportunity to not only defend himself but put forth an argument that wins him votes, not loses votes..

It may be improper for Sinclair to use his stations this way, and it may not be.

The FCC has been asked to investigate. They will rule on this. If they find it legal. Than thats the story gents.
If conservatives had to live with the legal airing of F911, then democrats can live through this. If they are both legal, then its just sour grapes on both sides.

[TheMojoPin]

If conservatives had to live with the legal airing of F911, then democrats can live through this.

This comparison is ridiculous. When was ANYTHING pre-empted by F911? It was released as a movie into movie theaters where people had to pay to go see it. Nobody had to "live through it"...why is this anti-Kerry documentary NOT being released into theaters, shown for free on 62 major TV stations across the country? The contrasts are outrageous. Neither film has anything in ANY way to do with each other. The only way one could have challenged the other is if this latest documentary was released into theaters, or put out on DVD in tandem with the release of F911.

Implying or stating that F911 somehow makes it "OK" for this latest film to be shown IN THE WAY DESCRIBED THAT IS THE ACTUAL ISSUE OF THIS THREAD makes zero sense.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[extracheese]

F911 had to be released into theaters because no one on earth would back it, be associated with it, or want it on their airwaves.

If you dont want to watch the show that night, turn off your Television. The same line you use when people bitch about Howard Stern etc...

The comparison is NOT ridiculous, just not a perfect exact match. I understand one was in theaters and one is being broadcast on Free TV.

Both are legal. If something is legal in this country, there is nothing you can do about it except vote someone into power who can change the law you dont like.

You can write your cable company or Sinclair etc..take action.

The decision to pre-emp television shows falls to the Owner of the station. He made his decision - now you can make yours.

I do agree that if it is legal to air this show, then Kerrys people should have a right to air F911 given they can find a network willing to do so. But again, thats up to the FCC/FEC.

This message was edited by extracheese on 10-12-04 @ 3:02 AM

[Yerdaddy]

<a href="http://www.stopsinclair.org/index.php" target="_blank">www.stopsinclair.org</a>

<a href="http://boycottsinclair.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://boycottsinclair.blogspot.com/</a>

<a href="http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/002985.html" target="_blank">"How To Deal With Sinclair Broadcast Group's Attempt To Play Kingmaker"</a>

<a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_10_10.php#003640" target="_blank">Letter from former FCC Chairman</a>

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[NewYorkDragons80]

My point is that you haven't seen it, but you're presuming that it is unfair to Kerry or dishonest.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[curtoid]

Would Yerdaddy have even posted this if this was a pro-Kerry, anti-Bush ad being run?

Would he, or anyone else, would have had a chance, what with the neo-con religious right on here tripping over themselves to post it first, linking back to "Drudge", or another source from the state run media????


http://oldamericancentury.org/karl_rove.jpg

btw...Karl Rove was behind the CBS debacle...shhhhhh! don't tell anyone!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/20.jpg
"One of our normal friends." - RB

This message was edited by curtoid on 10-12-04 @ 11:46 AM

[silera]

My point is that you haven't seen it, but you're presuming that it is unfair to Kerry or dishonest.


I think the presumption is that this is campaign propoganda, not news, and shouldn't be forced onto the airwaves at a bunch of people that will presume that it is news and it is fact.



<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[TheMojoPin]

I do agree that if it is legal to air this show, then Kerrys people should have a right to air F911 given they can find a network willing to do so. But again, thats up to the FCC/FEC.

I don't agree with that. I think neither side should get that much widespread free advertising and propagandizing on the airwaves. TV and radio are a completely different type of medium than film, and yes, the comparison to F911 is ridiculous just because of those differences. NO POLITICIAN should get this kind of a treatment, for or against, handed to them over local television or radio. It would be COMPLETELY different, and completely acceptable, if this movie got a big push on DVD or in theaters or even on pay cable.

If this airs, a line will be crossed, and it's a dangerous one to cross.

My issue isn't with the movie itself. It's how and when it's being shown.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 10-12-04 @ 1:03 PM

[FUNKMAN]

why couldn't they air something that shows the accomplishments of George W Bush... instead of attacking John Kerry who at least had the balls to go to Vietnam and didn't hide behind his wealth or social status. I think it gave John Kerry the right to speak out on his views of the war whether you agreed with them or not...

'why couldn't they air something that shows the accomplishments of George W Bush'

because they are few and far between


let them air it... it will show how desperate the republican party is which also confirms George W has been a failure

<img src="http://www.grandfunkrailroad.com/covers/closer100.gif">

[HBox]

This is news. I can't change the fact that these people decided to come forward today. The networks had this opportunity over a month ago to speak with these people. They chose to suppress them. They chose to ignore them. They are acting like Holocaust deniers, pretending these men don't exist.

Classy Sinclair. Very Classy. (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0410/12/ltm.04.html)

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

[mdr55]

'why couldn't they air something that shows the accomplishments of George W Bush'

because they are few and far between


Because if he did then people would be saying that he would exploiting 9-11 and the Iraqi war. Rememeber he's early election ads of Ground Zero?

4 more years! 4 more years!

[FUNKMAN]

Because if he did then people would be saying that he would exploiting 9-11 and the Iraqi war. Rememeber he's early election ads of Ground Zero?


be honest with yourself... the one positive i see is he went into afghanistan but what else is there

> worst terrorist attack occurred on his watch
> oil prices at all time high
> least amount of jobs created in any presidency in approx 100 years.
> 60% of new jobs have been obtained for less salary while the cost-of-living has increased
> biggest deficit swing in the history of the US
> more people in poverty
> less people with medical coverage
> largest tax cut for the wealthiest
> IRAQ - has to be the most miscalculated and costly F'up in our nations history
> promoting sexual relations between OBGYN's and patients
:)

Dude! besides the last item how can you not see the failure of this administration. Do me a small favor just list some of the positive accomplishments.

<img src="http://www.grandfunkrailroad.com/covers/closer100.gif">

[mdr55]

We got Saddam and Iraq people are free. Yah!!!!
Afghanistan will hold there first ever election.
The economy will turn the corner soon. Increase in jobs this past month.
Osama is in hiding.
Iraq has no WMD to threaten the U.S.
Bush is a steward of the land.
Bush won't used gov't. money to fund abortions and stem cell research.
Against gay marriages
Rice and Powell are 2 of the highest ranking African-Americans in the country.
The coalition is winning the war on terror.

What are you talking about no accomplishment???

Let's go Kerry!!

[FUNKMAN]

We got Saddam and Iraq people are free. Yah!!!! -

at what cost? and will continue to cost. THERE WAS NO THREAT. Iraq will become the new Israel. endless suicide bombings.

Afghanistan will hold there first ever election.
Good News! due to the fact that this is an area where AlQaeda had a high concentration. But you will need a US Military presence there for many decades to come.

The economy will turn the corner soon. Increase in jobs this past month.
what are those jobs paying? how are the benefits?
it's a bit too late. remember "worst job creation in 70 years"

Osama is in hiding. - you failed in capturing or killing him so the next best thing is "he's hiding"

Iraq has no WMD to threaten the U.S. - never did. no efforts since 1991. Inspectors and sanctions were taking care of it.

Bush is a steward of the land. - An attendant on a ship or airplane

Bush won't used gov't. money to fund abortions and stem cell research. - i believe more people would approve funding these items rather than putting the money into the pockets of the wealthiest

Against gay marriages

good point! i agree with not defining it as a marriage but couples that have been together should be able to obtain similar benefits.

Rice and Powell are 2 of the highest ranking African-Americans in the country. - not a big deal. you make it sound like they are tokens

The coalition is winning the war on terror. - they've begun paying militia to hand in their arms. people and equip that have killed Coalition and US Soldiers and innocent Iraqis. And again "at what cost" and was it worth it to invade a country that posed no threat to us?


<img src="http://www.grandfunkrailroad.com/covers/closer100.gif">

[Yerdaddy]

Posted in it's entirety because it only exists in the middle of a blog, and it's not that damn long.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/index-old.php

From Reed Hundt, Former Chair, FCC ...

Dear Josh:
Why is it important that Sinclair Broadcasting be urged in all lawful ways that can be imagined to reconsider its decision to broadcast on its television stations the anti-Kerry "documentary"?

Because in a large, pluralistic information society democracy will not work unless electronic media distribute reasonably accurate information and also competing opinions about political candidates to the entire population. Certainly, for the overwhelming number of voters this year, controlling impressions of the candidates for President are obtained from television.

In all countries, candidates for public office governments aspire to have favorable information and a chorus of favorable opinion disseminated through mass media to the citizenry. In a democracy, on the eve of a quadrennial election, the incumbent government plainly has a motive to encourage the media to report positively on its record but also negatively on the rival. But its role instead is to make sure that broadcast television promote democracy by conveying reasonably accurate reflections of where the candidates stand and what they are like.

To that end, since television was invented, Congress and its delegated agency, the Federal Communications Commision, together have passed laws and regulations to ensure that broadcast television stations provide reasonably accurate, balanced, and fair coverage of major Presidential and Congressional candidates. These obligations are reflected in specific provisions relating to rights to buy advertising time, bans against the gift of advertising time, rights to reply to opponents, and various other specific means of accomplishing the goal of balance and fairness. The various rules are part of a tradition well known to broadcasters an honored by almost all of them. This tradition is embodied in the commitment of the broadcasters to show the conventions and the debates.

Part of this tradition is that broadcasters do not show propaganda for any candidate, no matter how much a station owner may personally favor one or dislike the other. Broadcasters understand that they have a special and conditional role in public discourse. They received their licenses from the public -- licenses to use airwaves that, for instance, cellular companies bought in auctions -- for free, and one condition is the obligation to help us hold a fair and free election. The Supreme Court has routinely upheld this "public interest" obligation. Virtually all broadcasters understand and honor it.

Sinclair has a different idea, and a wrong one in my view. If Sinclair wants to disseminate propaganda, it should buy a printing press, or create a web site. These other media have no conditions on their publication of points of view. This is the law, and it should be honored. In fact, if the FCC had any sense of its responsibility as a steward of fair elections its chairman now would express exactly what I am writing to you here.

-- Reed Hundt

<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday/20041012/ts_usatoday/plantoairdivisivefilmraisesquestions" target="_blank">Plan to air divisive film raises questions</a>
[quote]Wall Streeters, political activists and media critics Monday were trying to answer a perplexing question: Why would Sinclair Broadcasting CEO David Smith embroil himself in controversy by ordering his stations to air Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal- a documentary challenging Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry (news - web sites)'s Vietnam service - within days of the presidential election?

The decision annoyed investors. Sinclair's shares, which have lost about half their value in 2004, closed Monday at $7.38, down 12 cents. That's about as low as they've been since 1995.

"I don't want my media companies that cover the news to be making news," says Barry Lucas of Gabelli & Co., which o

[Yerdaddy]

Instead of taking a principled stand on this flagrant attempt to violate campaign and broadcast laws to manipulate the election the RNC has chosen instead to go after Rock the Vote. Their rationale being "you don't have the right to talk about a possible draft because the President said there won't be one." Pathetic. <a href="http://americablog.blogspot.com/rncrockthevote.pdf" target="_blank">http://americablog.blogspot.com/rncrockthevote.pdf</a>

This is news. I can't change the fact that these people decided to come forward today. The networks had this opportunity over a month ago to speak with these people. They chose to suppress them. They chose to ignore them. They are acting like Holocaust deniers, pretending these men don't exist.

<a href="http://www.adl.org/media_watch/newspapers/20041011-WashPost.htm" target="_blank">Anti-Defamation League response:</a>

Letters to the Editor
The Washington Post October 11, 2004

To the Editor:

The statement by Mark Hyman, vice president of the Sinclair Broadcast Group, that the television networks were "acting like Holocaust deniers" with regard to coverage of anti-Kerry veterans groups is grossly inappropriate ("Sinclair Stations to Air Anti-Kerry Documentary," Oct. 11).

Regardless of Mr. Hyman's opinion of the quality of news coverage relating to Presidential campaign issues, his analogy to those who deny the Nazi murder of 6 million Jews and millions of others is insensitive and painful. Usage of Holocaust imagery to score a political point is unacceptable. He should repudiate the comment.

Sincerely,

Abraham H. Foxman
National Director

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[NewYorkDragons80]

I think the presumption is that this is campaign propoganda, not news, and shouldn't be forced onto the airwaves at a bunch of people that will presume that it is news and it is fact.
Exactly. And you haven't seen it and don't know that.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[curtoid]

Exactly. And you haven't seen it and don't know that.

Imagine.

People getting upset over something they haven't seen and don't plan to see. (http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/Forum/87/Topic/39479/page/The_Lies_Of_MIchael_Moore.htm) What's the world coming to?



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/22.jpg
"One of our normal friends." - RB

[silera]

Exactly. And you haven't seen it and don't know that.


Fahrenheit can't even buy commercial time to promote the DVD, but this gets to be shown in 62 markets for free on open airways?

It's wrong. Period.

But let's just scream liberal media bias, and that makes it ok.


<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[NewYorkDragons80]

Imagine.

People getting upset over something they haven't seen and don't plan to see. (http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/Forum/87/Topic/39479/page/The_Lies_Of_MIchael_Moore.htm) What's the world coming to?
That's the exact point I was trying to make. If it was so wrong to jump to conclusions without seeing it then, why is it so right now?

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[HBox]

That's the exact point I was trying to make. If it was so wrong to jump to conclusions without seeing it then, why is it so right now?

[size=2]Because the quality of the content <font size="20">ISN'T THE POINT!!!<font size="1">

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

This message was edited by HBox on 10-14-04 @ 2:18 PM

[GodsFavoriteMan]

Silera has made a great point, let's make it eye catching so everyone will read it.

Fahrenheit can't even buy commercial time to promote the DVD, but this gets to be shown in 62 markets for free on open airways?



<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~stan_ferguson/GFMSIG_copy.jpg" width="300" height="107"></p>
"All I wanted was a Pepsi!"

This message was edited by GodsFavoriteMan on 10-14-04 @ 2:26 PM

[Freakshow]

From the first post:


They're calling it "news"


Seems to me that exactly the point.


What scary to me is the complete objection to a comporation deciding what to show on IT'S OWN STATIONS. Even calling for the government to step in and not allow it. That's a bit 1984ish for me.

If it violates some sort of campaign laws, then yes it should not be shown. But otherwise the government should just mind it's own business.

<center><img width=300 src=http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=Freakshow>
Thanks Furtherman, SatCam, Reefdweller, and Monsterone!<br>We don't need a cure we need a final solution</center>

This message was edited by Freakshow on 10-14-04 @ 2:27 PM

[GodsFavoriteMan]

It's not the government that's not wanting this to air. It's us. Those of us who are complaining. We want to the government to stop it and we're also petitioning Sinclaire.

<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~stan_ferguson/GFMSIG_copy.jpg" width="300" height="107"></p>
"All I wanted was a Pepsi!"

[HBox]

The only thing that is going on as far as the government is concerned is that the Democrats have petitoned the FEC to get a ruling on whether this is legal and a FCC commissioner has sent a letter to Sinclair expressing concern. Other than that, it's been a mostly a movement to petition Sinclair advertisers and shareholders.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

[Freakshow]

from the first post:

If the FEC and the FCC allow this then our democracy is a fucking sham.




<center><img width=300 src=http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=Freakshow>
Thanks Furtherman, SatCam, Reefdweller, and Monsterone!<br>We don't need a cure we need a final solution</center>

[Yerdaddy]

What scary to me is the complete objection to a comporation deciding what to show on IT'S OWN STATIONS. Even calling for the government to step in and not allow it. That's a bit 1984ish for me.

Bullshit. The airwaves that network television are broadcasted on are a publicly owned limited commodity that are leased to private companies with the specific obligation that they serve the public interest. That's why there are restrictions on political advertisements, political commentary and giving access to political candidates on those public airwaves. There is an exception for hard news. This is not hard news, but it is being claimed that it is because by the time the governing agencies make a ruling it will be too late.

But the right to broadcast is not a private property issue. It is a public interest issue. Look up the Federal Communications Act of 1934. It's my birthday and I'm eating my stupid cake now. Good day sir!

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[SatCam]

oh whoops, I almost forgot, everyone is forced to watch this station!

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/SatCam/sig89_general_snoopdog.jpg" align="right" alt="Nigguh pleeze" /><a href="http://www.satelitecam.tk">Ron and Fez Drops and Bits</a>

50%[color=white]

[SatCam]

Damn me, I forgot my sarcasm tags!!

[/sarcasm]

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/SatCam/sig89_general_snoopdog.jpg" align="right" alt="Nigguh pleeze" /><a href="http://www.satelitecam.tk">Ron and Fez Drops and Bits</a>

50%[color=white]

This message was edited by SatCam on 10-14-04 @ 8:03 PM

[HBox]

Fine, I don't want to hear some of you complaining if all the networks decided to run that new pro-Kerry documentary nonstop everynight until the election.

"You don't have to watch it! How do you know it's unfair, you haven't seen it! It's a private company! Everything is A-OK! Boy, it would be SCARY if the government didn't allow propaganda to flood the airwaves, wouldn't it! It won't have any effect anyway! It's not like most voters are ill-informed and gullible, right!? They're not having enough problems already sorting through the lies of this campaign!"

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

[mdr55]

Arnold for President. The future is now.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Fahrenheit can't even buy commercial time to promote the DVD, but this gets to be shown in 62 markets for free on open airways?
HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS IS PARTISAN???

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[NewYorkDragons80]

It's not like most voters are ill-informed and gullible, right!?
And it's not like the left has tried to exploit gullible, ill-informed voters this year, right!?

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 10-14-04 @ 8:44 PM

[HBox]

And it's not like the left has tried to exploit gullible, ill-informed voters this year, right!?

Why do you keep distracting from the issue! When has a partisan group been handed free network air time days before an election EVER EVER [size=3] EVER EVER [size=4] EVER EVER!?

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

[Snoogans]

HBox is dominating tonight like Kerry did last night

http://home.comcast.net/~rmfallon/RFnetSnoogs.jpg
http://snoogans194.blogspot.com/
GO SAWX!!!!!
Rollin down the Street, Smokin Indo, sippin on Gin & Juice Snoogans 1, Monitor 0

[Yerdaddy]

HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS IS PARTISAN???

We've already established that this is the same group that put together the Swift Boat ads, and that they were proven already to be liars by every relevant piece of documentary evidence as well as their own actions and statements over the last 30 years.

We also know that the leadership of Sinclair is grossly partisan from their large donations to the republican party, their politically motivated blocking of the Nightline show reading the names of American soldiers killed in Iraq, <a href="http://www.newscentral.tv/thepoint/editorial.shtml" target="_blank">and because Mark Hyman, Sinclair's spokesman and head of corporate relations uses the company's stations to broadcast the company's partisanship over its airwaves disguised as news.</a>

It's partisan.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Why do you keep distracting from the issue! When has a partisan group been handed free network air time days before an election EVER EVER [size=3] EVER EVER [size=4] EVER EVER!?
http://www.jlhs.nhusd.k12.ca.us/Classes/Social_Science/Election_96/choose2.gif
and, of course,
http://www.kintera.org/AccountTempFiles/Account9883/images/66344_shirt_ladies.gif
Vote or die, as you should know, has been given carte blanche by MTV and if you haven't noticed, MTV has interrupted ALL of its regular shows at some point in the past few months to broadcast the very partisan views of P Diddy, Ben Affleck, etc.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[silera]

Chose or lose/vote or die are all voter registration drives.

Citizen Change is a national, non-partisan and non-profit organization created to educate, motivate, and empower the more than 42 million Americans aged 18 to 30 that are eligible to vote on November 2nd --also known as the "forgotten ones." Founded by businessman, entertainer, actor, producer and designer Sean "P. Diddy" Combs, Citizen Change has one mission: to make voting hot, sexy and relevant to a generation that hasn't reached full participation in the political process. (http://www.citizenchange.com/site/pp.asp?c=kkJ2JeO0F&b=140822)

That they would yield more democratic voters than republican, has more to do with the age group being recruited that concerted efforts by MTV to steer their listeners to being democrats.

Playing devil's advocate is fine, you really are just stretching it at this point.


<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[A.J.]

and because Mark Hyman,

"Huh huh huh...Hyman."

http://www.americanwasteland.com/Article%20Images/beavis.jpg

<img src=http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Canofsoup15/Sigs/AJinDC-Sig.jpg>

A Skidmark/canofsoup15 production.

Red Sox Nation

[silera]

Our democracy is a fucking sham (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6249909/)

<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[NewYorkDragons80]

That they would yield more democratic voters than republican, has more to do with the age group being recruited that concerted efforts by MTV to steer their listeners to being democrats.
Have you seen MTV?

From Citizen Change:
Citizen Change is a national, non-partisan and non-profit organization created to educate, motivate, and empower the more than 42 million Americans aged 18 to 30 that are eligible to vote on November 2nd --also known as the "forgotten ones." Founded by businessman, entertainer, actor, producer and designer Sean "P. Diddy" Combs, Citizen Change has one mission: to make voting hot, sexy and relevant to a generation that hasn't reached full participation in the political process.
In the spirit of a true P. Diddy "re-mix", Citizen Change has reinvented the process of mobilizing young people and minorities to the polls. Where in the past politicians have failed to appeal to the youth, Citizen Change has created an undeniable campaign by amassing its own "Coalition Of the Willing" which include such luminaries as Jay-Z, Leonardo DiCaprio, Jamie Foxx, Ellen DeGeneres, Ashton Kutcher, 50 Cent, Mary J. Blige and Drew Barrymore. Together they will spin the infectious message of Vote or Die! to every corner of youth culture, resonating the importance and sexiness of being politically informed and active. If you are young you will have no choice but to join the movement.
And we all know what a die-hard conservative Leo is.
NOTE: "Leonardo DiCaprio is an androgynous wimp"
-John McCain
And no movement is complete without its own fashion statement. Citizen Change has formed an unprecedented partnership with the top designers in the youth market place: Tommy Hilfiger, Marc Ecko, Russell Simmons for Phat Farm and of course Sean John, all of whom have been commissioned to design a limited edition series of T-Shirts that feature the Vote or Die! slogan. Proceeds from the sale of these shirts will be donated to Citizen Change and its voter registration efforts.
Citizen change is a non-partisan 527, just like the Swift Boat Vets.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 10-15-04 @ 9:26 AM

[HBox]

This is getting really pathetic. Is just making a list of celebrities and getting out the youth and minority vote proof to you of bias? Everytime I see people from these groups come on TV they bend over backwards to be non-partisan. From what you posted, it seems getting people informed is just as important to them as getting them to vote. What is wrong here? Like Mojo said, this isn't a sport. You don't have to root for your side no matter what!

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

This message was edited by HBox on 10-15-04 @ 11:09 AM

[Freakshow]

Our democracy is a fucking sham (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6249909/)


Yes. there are distortions and lies because of this documentary!
Sinclair, based outside Baltimore, has <b>asked</b> its 62 television stations




<center><img width=300 src=http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=Freakshow>
Thanks Furtherman, SatCam, Reefdweller, and Monsterone!<br>We don't need a cure we need a final solution</center>

This message was edited by Freakshow on 10-15-04 @ 11:28 AM

[GodsFavoriteMan]

HBox, according to NYD, anything that doesn't 100% favor Bush's agenda (http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/Forum/87/Topic/41914/page/Operation_Truth.htm) is partisan. Even if it's spokesman is Jesse Ventura.

<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~stan_ferguson/goodluvin_copy.jpg">

[silera]

I don't understand how any of those quotes provide any proof as to the bias of the choose or loose campaign.

If anything, all of those celebrities should not be voting for Kerry as he has promised to raise their taxes.



<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[TheMojoPin]

Yeah, but all of those celebrities are world class idiots.

"Vote or die" is the most asinine voter drive I've ever seen. It makes zero attempt to educate potential voters on ANY kind of issue, and the latest "Choose or Loose" seems to be modeled after it as well. Telling people, ESPECIALLY young voters, to vote "just because" is ridiulous. It doesn't involve them in the process...it uses them as tools.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[silera]

Mojo, everyone and everything is assinine to you. Nothing is going to be perfect, but because it is not perfect doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done.
Between the news, the internet, and television, and just living, I think most people that go out to vote have many different ideas about who and why they are voting.

Not everyone reads every single political book that comes out, but it doesn't mean that they can't have an opinion about who will better serve them as president. Whatever personal criteria people choose to decide who they're going to vote for. Many republican voters will vote this year just because they like what Bush has done as the war president. Most Democrats will vote against Bush because they disagree with the war.

As American citizens they have the right to vote regardless of how informed or uninformed they are.
That is dichotomy of our democracy, no matter how stupid or ill informed you are, your opinion can make a difference.

Minorities have generally underutilized their vote. I think that any effort to get people off their ass and out to actually have an opinion on something is commendable. Making an informed decision is important, but who are you or anyone to decide what makes an informed decision?

My entire decision canl be based on the fact that I do not want Roe v Wade over turned, or it can be based on the fact that "no child left behind" personally had an effect on my children. Maybe, as a hispanic person, I'll be swayed by Bush's temporary worker card idea. John Kerry's health plan could be the deciding factor for me.

Voting is a personal decision and every citizen's right. It is not reserved for the only the educated, or the rich.

<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[Freakshow]

<a href="http://rawstory.com/exclusives/softley/mtv_rock_vote_useless_801.htm">Rock the Vote/Vote or Die is an assanine attempt for celebrities to get publicity and sell t-shirts</a>

from the self-proclaimed Liberal equivalent to drudge website.


My favorite part is about Madonna and Ben Afflect being the centerpiece of the campaign and then not voting.

<center><img width=300 src=http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=Freakshow>
Thanks Furtherman, SatCam, Reefdweller, and Monsterone!<br>We don't need a cure we need a final solution</center>

This message was edited by Freakshow on 10-15-04 @ 12:53 PM

[silera]

I'm so sick of everyone's bullshit.

Everything is bad. Everything is a conspiracy. Fuck voting. Fuck Kerry. Fuck Bush. Fuck America.



<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[TheMojoPin]

Rock The Vote USED to be about getting people involved in the process. It's now been co-opted by "Vote or Die's" mentality of "we'll get you to vote, but only vote for who WE want YOU to vote for, and we're not gonna tell you why. Just do it."

That accomplishes nothing in the longterm. It makes voting something to do because it's trendy, and involving zero choice. "Vote or Die's" blatant attitude isn't one of wanting to get people involved and actually AWARE of who or what they vote for...just voting for who Puff Daddy tells you to vote for. Don't ask the "why's"...just do it.

VOTING BOILED DOWN TO A SLOGAN!

And nothing more.

Voting JUST because some celebrity screamed at you about it isn't necessarily a good thing, and that's all "Vote or Die" offers.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 10-15-04 @ 2:35 PM

[silera]

Mojo, you're assuming. It's honestly fucking insulting.

Blacks and Hispanics vote 90% democratic since forever. It's not about telling them who to vote for, but getting them off their asses. I don't see an endorsement on the site and honestly, I don't think it takes a celebrity to tell urban young people what are the issues that matter to them.



<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[TheMojoPin]

WHAT am I assuming? The site is right in front of me. I'm only basing my opinion on what Vote or Die is presenting. I have no clue what you're insulted over, since my cirticism has been completely direct at Vote or Die. It's a movement to get "young voters" into the voting booths come election day, and I think it's severely lacking. What the fuck is there to get "insulted" about?

It sells product, it provides links...and that's about it. Considering it advertises the fuck out of itself, I'd like to think that there would be SOMETHING on the fucking site itself that could help guide first time voters to getting actually INVOLVED in the process. Voting does not automatically equal involvement. Vote or Die is simply trying to pump the numbers, as opposed to actually developing INFORMED voters.

Is that so insane to expect? Inflating the voting numbers in this country means shit if the people aren't more aware of what they're voting for.

It's a lackluster overall voting drive. And I'm basing that on what I remember of the first 3-4 elections that "Choose or Loose" pushed for. They set the bar for what these kind of voting drives should accomplish...and Vote or Die falls way, way, WAY short.

Numbers don't equal success.

In my opinion.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 10-15-04 @ 2:52 PM

[silera]

Mojo, anything that is mainstream, or popular, generally annoys, aggravates, or becomes assinine to you. You have the right to your opinion, and that's fine. I could care less what you think about the vote or die registration.

As it was brought up in this thread, was not whether or not it was effective or necessary, but whether or not it was the MTV equivilent of Sinclair documentary showing. It's not the same thing.





<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[TheMojoPin]

Mojo, anything that is mainstream, or popular, generally annoys, aggravates, or becomes assinine to you. You have the right to your opinion, and that's fine. I could care less what you think about the vote or die registration.

Complete bullshit, considering this is only the first election since I've been able to vote where I HAVEN'T worked for or with some kind of registration push or organization.

If you don't care about what I have to think about Vote or Die, why the fuck are you getting "insulted?" It's just my opinion on the divergent topic that popped up.

Is it the same as the anti-Kerry documentary that's being threatened to be shown commercial-free on 62 major stations around the country? Of course not. There, back on topic.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 10-15-04 @ 2:55 PM

[silera]

I was talking about Rock the Vote in particular. Not all voter registration drives.

You don't like mainstream stuff. That's fine, your perogative. Doesn't mean that everything that is mainstream is evil and stupid.
If you don't care about what I have to think about Vote or Die, why the fuck are you getting "insulted?" It's just my opinion on the divergent topic that popped up. I wasn't insulted about your opinion on the Vote or Die shit, I was insulted at your assumption that the target group was so stupid all they need was P. Diddy to tell them who to vote for.


<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

This message was edited by silera on 10-15-04 @ 2:59 PM

[GodsFavoriteMan]

Doesn't mean that everything that is mainstream is evil and stupid.


No, but I am.

<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~stan_ferguson/goodluvin_copy.jpg">

[TheMojoPin]

You don't like mainstream stuff. That's fine, your perogative. Doesn't mean that everything that is mainstream is evil and stupid.

Since WHEN?!? Compared to the lefty/righty idealogues running around here spewing fire and brimstone, I'm practically the most dull fucking centrist since Bill Clinton.

Where are my threads/posts showing me to be "anti-mainstream," whatever the hell THAT is? Because I'm thinking of voting for Nader?

This is such bullshit. It's OK for everyone here to attack and bemoan the current political climate and system when they can twist it to support "their guy," but if I look at the OVERALL system as collevtively flawed, I "don't like mainstream stuff."

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[silera]

Mojo, you are completely misunderstanding me.

I'm not talking about Nader or mainstream politics or idealogy. You generally hate anything that is popular, ranging from Eminem to Jessica Simpson. You are averted by anything commercial.

I think your problem with Rock the Vote is that it's just too commercial and slick for your taste. Again, your perogative. You and I will spend all day reading the news, watching tv, checking the internet and getting informed. That's how we make decisions.

There are those that can't digest all that information, be it for lack of time, intellect or interest. They do have a feeling and a desire to vote for someone regardless of it. Is that gut instinct, that need, or feeling, any less important than you and mine's supposed "knowledge" of the issues?

I don't think it is. That was my point. Not that Vote or Die is the best thing since sliced bread.


<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[TheMojoPin]

Alright, fair enough. But I try not to apply that to my politics, or my political activism.

I mean, I really had no problem with "Choose or Loose" or "Rock The Vote"...until THIS election, when they modeled themselves on the new Vote or Die movement, which itself claims that its goal is to make voting "cool, sex and relevant." That, combined with the limited information on their site and the blatant merchandising push, I can't help but feel their efforts and priorities could be a bit more...well-rounded? At least when it comes to something as important as our ability to vote.

I'm certainly not saying that the people targeted by Vote or Die SHOULDN'T vote. I just wish the biggest and flashiest movement targeting them had a little more substance.

Well, whatever, I've driven this thread off course enough.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 10-15-04 @ 3:13 PM

[IrishAlkey]

What's so great about sliced bread?

Ya' take a loaf of bread...

SLICE THE FUCKIN' THING!



<center>http://artemis.gamedaemons.net/alkey.gif</center>

[TheMojoPin]

I've got the shakes.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[mdr55]

Go Bush Go!!

[HBox]

I agree with Silera.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

[mdr55]

Let's Go Kerry!!

[TheMojoPin]

I agree with Silera.

That's just because you're a pinko queer.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Freakshow]

Now I'm insulted.










no one bothered to actually read the article I posted.

<center><img width=300 src=http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=Freakshow>
Thanks Furtherman, SatCam, Reefdweller, and Monsterone!<br>We don't need a cure we need a final solution</center>

[HBox]

Now I'm insulted.

Just because something's labeled liberal doesn't mean I'm gonna read it. And the fact that its equated with the Drudge Report pretty much demolished any chance of me reading it. Sorry.

That's just because you're a pinko queer.

There you go. Now I agree with you again!

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

[Yerdaddy]

MTV is cable, and as such is not subject to the same provisions to serve the public interest. There is less regulation on cable networks because they do not go out across the public airwaves, which Sinclair's stations do. Therefore the comparison to MTV is a red herring. There would be an ethical issue in airing this piece of shit on cable before the elections, but because this is network, this is a legal issue as well because this can in no way be construed as serving the public interest. In order for Michael Powell to claim that this broadcast doesn't violate Sinclair's broadcast licence he has to assume that the content of this "documentary" constitutes news, which is absurd. Michael Powell is therefore a tool for his ideology and for the corporate interests of the Sinclair's of this country who would violate the law and the public trust in order to serve their financial and political interests. In other words, thanks to the handful of republicans running this little would-be coup, our democracy is for sale.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[mdr55]

In other words, thanks to the handful of republicans running this little would-be coup, our democracy is for sale.


What's wrong with that? That's Capitalism at it's best.

[IrishAlkey]

Yerdaddy gave me crabs!

I'll take the ceramic dalmation for $250, Pat!

<center>http://artemis.gamedaemons.net/alkey.gif</center>

[Freakshow]

from the MSNBC article

FCC rules require that a program air before a formal complaint can be considered.



and the insulted comment was more aimed at Mojo, who's previous post claimed that Vote or Die changed Rock to Vote as an attempt to make voting hip and cool, while the article basically said that Rock the Vote has always been trying to make voting hip and cool. And it just ain't gonna happen.

<center><img width=300 src=http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=Freakshow>
Thanks Furtherman, SatCam, Reefdweller, and Monsterone!<br>We don't need a cure we need a final solution</center>

[NewYorkDragons80]

I don't understand how any of those quotes provide any proof as to the bias of the choose or loose campaign.
Every one of those celebrities and designers has contributed to a Democrat's campaign in the past year.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[TheMojoPin]

who's previous post claimed that Vote or Die changed Rock to Vote as an attempt to make voting hip and cool, while the article basically said that Rock the Vote has always been trying to make voting hip and cool. And it just ain't gonna happen.

Actually, I was refering to "Choose or Loose."

Every one of those celebrities and designers has contributed to a Democrat's campaign in the past year.

And? Unless they're up their on TV in these spots saying blatantly, "vote for THIS guy," they're ultimately pushing the supposed larger goal of the organization.

Let me put it this way...do you object to ALL commercials that push people to vote? Or just ones that feature people in them? And I don't mean big time actors...maybe just schlubs off the street. All of THOSE people have made some political choice at some point in their life...they've voted for someone, or talked to the people around them and tried to sway their minds to their political opinion, or maybe even have doanted to a political cause or party. Do THEIR past political declarations negate them from potentially being involved in similar ads or movements?

Most people pick a political side at some point. Now those decisions are supposed to silence them?

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Yerdaddy]

Every one of those celebrities and designers has contributed to a Democrat's campaign in the past year.

When you can show me that these clowns are accusing Bush of treason and of deliberately prolonging the war and the suffering of POWs, AND they're doing it on the public airwaves then there will be some kind of comparison. Until then you're just trying to fill this thread with red herrings and I think it's bullshit.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[silera]

Interesting throwback (http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/Forum/87/Topic/33680/page/Reagan_Mini_series_Cancelled.htm)


<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[Yerdaddy]

<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041019/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_film_reporter_3" target="_blank">Sinclair Fires Washington Bureau Chief </a>

The Washington bureau chief for Sinclair Broadcast Group said he was fired Monday after he criticized the company's plans to produce a news program based on a documentary critical of John Kerry's Vietnam-era anti-war activities.

Jon Leiberman said he was fired by Joseph DeFeo, Sinclair's vice president for news, and "escorted out of the building."
...

"They're using the news to drive their political agenda," Leiberman said. "I don't think it served the public trust."

Here's the funny/sad part:
Sinclair in a statement late Monday said that "we are disappointed that Jon's political views caused him to violate company policy and speak to the press about company business."

Holy mother of hypocritical bullshit! These fuckers are batshit insane, and I think in a few years we'll be reading about a Karl Rove connection to these fucks. There comes a point where the idea of storming a building with torches sounds like a rational and necessary act.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Holy mother of hypocritical bullshit! These fuckers are batshit insane, and I think in a few years we'll be reading about a Karl Rove connection to these fucks.
Why not? You tie him to everything else.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[Yerdaddy]

You tie him to everything else.

Karl Rove told you to say that didn't he?

Actually, I don't remember even mentioning him until a couple days ago when I posted an article about him.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[curtoid]

You tie him to everything else.

That's Chuck Floyd.





Oops. Wrong thread.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/22.jpg
"One of our normal friends." - RB

[NewYorkDragons80]

Actually, I don't remember even mentioning him until a couple days ago when I posted an article about him.
I didn't mean you specifically. I meant the left as a whole.
http://www.yaf.org/speakers/levinf.jpg
That's right, you Clinton kool-aid drinking liberals!!!

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>