2004 MLB Awards

[WindowSill]

Now that the season is over, we can begin to worry about the most important aspect of baseball...the awards.

I saw the list that Peter Gammons posted on the ESPN Site (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1894738), and I disagree with quite a bit of it.

Lets start with the AL MVP award. I think we will all agree that Vlad should definitely win it, but Mariano Rivera is his runner up?! I mean Mariano kicks ass and anyteam would want him as their closer, but HES A CLOSER! He pitched 78 Innings....CLOSING! Sure he has an ERA less than 2 but so does Armando fuckin Benitez who mind you has an even lower ERA than Mariano but isnt mentioned anywhere on that list.
My next problem is Ichiro. The guys a great hitter, fantastic fielder, and flat out just a kick ass ball player...But Most Valuable Player worthy? Just because he beat a record mean he should be in the running for MVP?
And my next problem...a huge problem...MARK KOTSAY. The same Mark Kotsay that 15 homers, 63 RBI, and 75 Runs scored...314 AVG...what the hell makes him even worthy of being in the top 25 for MVP? Thats average...hes an average ball player...not nearly MVP caliber...

Next is the NL MVP Award
#1, Bonds, no problems. Why isnt Carlos Beltran on that list? Why isnt Bobby Abreu on that list? Why isnt Aramis Ramirez on that list? Is it because they arent as good as Moises Alou or Mark Loretta?! Because I have a page full of stats that strongly disagrees.

Next the Cy Youngs...
I think he is right on with the AL Cy Young. NL I think I would give to Clemens. Johnson is 16-14. Granted he plays for the worst team in baseball right now but 16-14...Clemens on the other hand is 18-4. Not as many Ks as the Big Unit and an ERA about .35 higher than that of Johnsons, but if you ask me Clemens, though not the better pitcher, deserves the Cy Young more than Johnson. And Pavano should be ahead of Oswalt...

And I have a big problem with the AL manager of the year award. I mean why is Joe Torre even there? What has he done this year that merits him being in the running for MOTY? Is he better than Mike Scioscia or Ken Macka? No....No he is not...

Now that Im done with my inane rant, what do you guys have to say? Hmmmmm?!


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[BoondockSaint]

Why isnt Carlos Beltran on that list?


Because he only played half a season in the NL.

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[WindowSill]

Ok but he played baseball for the entire year...He had 38 homers, 104 RBI, and 42 Stolen Bases and he cant get the award because he only spent half a year in Houston? Lame...


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[BoondockSaint]

Yes because you win it for the league your in. Not all of baseball. And why should Ken Macka be considered for manerger of the year after the way his team choked?

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[WindowSill]

Is that Ken Mackas fault or the collective fault of Mark Mulder and Barry Zito who both choked down the stretch. Im not saying hes the best manager this year, but more worth than Joe Torre.


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[Davios]

Ken Macha has done nothing since he got to Oakland.

[WindowSill]

What has Joe Torre done since 2000?


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[BoondockSaint]

What has Joe Torre done since 2000?


Gone to the world series twice in three years?

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[WindowSill]

No, no, That was Derek Jeter, Roger Clemens, Andy pettite, David Wells, Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada, Hideki Matsui, and Alfonso Soriano. I asked, what has JOE TORRE done since 2000?


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[Davios]

And Ken Macha did what besides sit on a piece of wood and watch the team that Arte Howe made successful burst into flames?

[WindowSill]

What Ken Macha did, was everything that Billy Beane told him to do. The guy practically has Beanes hand up his ass at all times.


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[BoondockSaint]

No, no, That was Derek Jeter, Roger Clemens, Andy pettite, David Wells, Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada, Hideki Matsui, and Alfonso Soriano. I asked, what has JOE TORRE done since 2000?


Well then you could also say Zito, Mulder, Hudson, Tejada, Chavez, etc made Macka look good.

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[WindowSill]

Well you could pretty much make that case about any manager then...


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[BoondockSaint]

What Ken Macha did, was everything that Billy Beane told him to do. The guy practically has Beanes hand up his ass at all times.


Then why should he be considered for manager of the year?

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[WindowSill]

Because tecnically Billy Beane cant be considered.


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[MHasegawa]

Nah, not Macha. Buck Showalter is manager of the year. Hope Bobby Crosby takes rookie of the year.

Who is Karim Garcia?? I no respect heem.
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[WindowSill]

For the last time, I didnt say that Macha deserves manager of the year. He doesnt. I just said he is a better manager than Torre.


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[Davios]

You do realize that for all these amazing strides that you believe Macha to have taken, there is a strong possibility he's going to be fired by Oakland. Now corect me if I'm wrong, but does such a managing genius deserve to be shown the door?

And yes I agree Showalter really was this year's best coach by far. The man had Kenny Rogers and Ryan Drese as his two "aces", and everyone else in that rotation was day to day depending on which scrub they dragged out of the minors. Their pen on the other hand has been astonishingly good, but incredibly impressive on Showalter's part nonetheless.

[WindowSill]

You do realize that for all these amazing strides that you believe Macha to have taken


NO!!!! No Strides! What Strides?! No Strides! I just said that he is a better manager than Torre. I didnt say hes a great manager, just that he is better than Torre. I didnt even say he is a good manager, I just said that Ken Macha is a better manager than Joe Torre...thats it...


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[BoondockSaint]

You do realize that for all these amazing strides that you believe Macha to have taken


NO!!!! No Strides! What Strides?! No Strides! I just said that he is a better manager than Torre. I didnt say hes a great manager, just that he is better than Torre. I didnt even say he is a good manager, I just said that Ken Macha is a better manager than Joe Torre...thats it...



Yes. But WHERE does the meat go?

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[WindowSill]

I dont know, Its 1 in the morning and Im sweepy....


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[BoondockSaint]

Me too buddy. Just bustin' em.

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[WindowSill]

The American League Gold Glovers were announced today (javascript:G('/cgi-bin/getmsg?msg=MSG1099437085.38&start=1598422&len=8917&imgsafe=n'))

Pudge Rodriguez won his record breaking 11th Gold Glove, Derek Jeter his first.


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[TheGameHHH]

Good for Jeter, he earned it. I think he won the gold glove when he made that catch against the red sox during the regular season when he caught the ball then fell into the seats. It wasn't a spectacular play but it showed more hustle and desire then I have seen in a long time.

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[ChickenHawk]

Although Chavez is well-deserving of his GG at 3rd base, I'm surprised it didn't go to A-Rod under the consideration that it was his first year in the position and played it like he's been there his whole life.

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[badorties]

are golden glove awards based on quanitative or qualitative merit ...

i thought it was based solely on fielding percentage ....

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[keithy_19]

I forgot baseball had awards. What am I thinking.

How about the awarfor the biggest backfire of using steroids? Winner-Jason Giambi

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[TheGameHHH]

Hawk, I thought the same thing you did.......and for the first half of the year all I kept saying to my buddies was, "Watch.....A-Rod will win the Gold Glove at 3rd this season". While I think that he played Gold Glove style 3rd base for the first part of the season, from some reason towards the latter half I feel like he dropped off and therefore wasn't as deserving.

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[Snoogans]

where is Manny's GG?

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[spoon]

"How about the awarfor the biggest backfire of using steroids? Winner-Jason Giambi"



I'd give it to Ken Caminiti! I know it wasn't his only drug addiction, but he sure does deserve a vote here.

And just as Giambi is well deserving, let's give this Bonds thing a little more time. If he takes the fall, as the heat has definately been raised, he'd be a runaway winner.

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This message was edited by spoon on 11-3-04 @ 5:02 AM

[A.J.]

where is Manny's GG?

In the universe in which he lives.


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[fluffernutter]

Why isnt Bobby Abreu on that list?


For the most part his numbers are there (although in late innings they're hollow) but granted hge plays a decent defensive rightfield, I have not once this year seen him dive for a catchable ball that woul dhave made the difference and picked up the team in the late innings. Bobby A, I love the guy but he's no MVP. Not this year at least. Dive for a few and stop hitting for yourself and pull the fucking ball and then we can talk MVP.

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[WindowSill]

National League Gold Glovers (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1915268)

Greg Maddux won his 14th Gold Glove...and....um...nothin too interestin besides that....


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[WindowSill]

MLB Silver Slugger Award Winners (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1914930)


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[jocefus]

good to see izturis got his first gold glove... he had a hell of a year... finally got the respect he deserves being a hell of a short stop the past few years...

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Big ups to amy, aggie, satcam,adf fluff and can of soup for the sigs..

hey my man, what it look like

[WindowSill]

Bunch of other meaningless awards as the MLB stalls before revealing the MVPs/Cy youngs... (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1916348)


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[ADF]

Golden Gloves are perhaps the most overrated award in sports. They're purely subjective and often don't make a lick of sense. Rafael Palmeiro won one for first base when he played about 130 games as a <i>DH</i>.

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[mikeyboy]

Yeah, well how many errors did he have at DH? Exactly.

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[WindowSill]

The 2004 Aaron Boone award goes to Lance Berkman...deek... (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1916993)


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[WindowSill]

Back to the real awards...AL/NL ROTY Awards (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1918397)




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[Jack_Doff]

I'm not saying that David Wright should have won the NL Rookie of the Year, but how does Kaz Matsui get a vote and Wright gets none? Didn't Matsui go back to Japan (or DL) midway through the season?

This message was edited by Jack_Doff on 11-8-04 @ 5:34 PM

[WindowSill]

Matsui went on the DL, not to Japan.

I think Wright wasnt eligible for the award this year because he didnt have enough at bats. Thus qualifying him as a rookie for next year. Although I could be, and probably am wrong.


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[ADF]

Although I could be, and probably am wrong.


Yep, you're wrong.

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A player shall be considered a rookie unless, during a previous season or seasons, he has (a) exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the Major Leagues; or (b) accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a Major League club or clubs during the period of 25-player limit (excluding time in the military service and time on the disabled list). </a>

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[WindowSill]

Alright...well...then shit, WTF didnt he get any fuckin votes? In 69 fuckin games he had 14 homers, drove in 40 and hit 17 doubles...


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[MHasegawa]

At least someone from Oakland didn't choke and actually won something...congrats, Bobby.

Who is Karim Garcia?? I no respect heem.
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[WindowSill]

42 Year old Roger Clemens has won the Cy Young award for a record 7th time... (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1919168)

Hes not actually thinking of retiring after a season like that is he?


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[MHasegawa]

Santana wins AL Cy Young.

Who is Karim Garcia?? I no respect heem.
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[TheGameHHH]

What do ya'll think about Bonds and Vlad being MVP's? I think Pujols should have gotten the NL MVP, while the AL MVP I'm indifferent about. Personally I would have voted for Sheff, but that's probably because I'm biased as a Yankee fan.

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[BoondockSaint]

Vlad's stats in Semptember were other worldly. He really dragged his team into the playoffs by himself. He hit .363 with 11hrs and 25rbi and 25runs. And he beat Shef in AVG HR and RBI for the year.

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[MHasegawa]

The reason Bonds won the MVP is because without him, the Giants would have the record of the Diamondbacks.

Who is Karim Garcia?? I no respect heem.
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[ChickenHawk]

Not that it really matters, but the World Champion Red Sox have not won a single individual award. No Cy Young, no Gold Gloves, no Manager of the Year, no MVP. That's pretty surprising.

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[BoondockSaint]

Bonds' numbers are crazy. .362 45hr 101rbi 232bb .812slg.

Do I think he took steroids? Yes, but until it's proven you have to give it him.

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[WindowSill]

Bonds' numbers are crazy. .362 45hr 101rbi 232bb .812slg.


Not only that, but because of all the walks, those numbers are with about 200-250 less at bats than any other All Star in the league, Pujols included. Fuckin sick.


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[WindowSill]

Oh and thank god that Vlad won MVP and not Manny or Ortiz just cuz they got their team to the World Series. Good to see that the votes are clouted by Playoff stats and are still based on the regular season.


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