Tragedy + Time = Comedy?

[Tenbatsuzen]

I didn't say they had to start cracking jokes about his dad on Day One of the XM radio experience. If down the road they start hanging up on callers who make light of it, then they'll be dead to me.



One rule of comedy is "It's funny because it's not me."

Yes, O&A make light of death. It's one of their calling cards with the "Sucks to be You/Unlucky Lottery" bits.

But I really don't think true O&A fans are going to call in and "make light" of Opie's dad dying. It's not like Anthony going through a bad time in his divorce with the "Group Sex" bit. There's a big difference between a divorce and a parent dying suddenly.

If a non-fan calls in to bash Opie, one of two things would happen.

They'd dump out... or Opie would go into the "OOH! You got me!" mode.

Face it, the comedy value of this is nothing. It was a car crash, it was sudden, it was tragic.

I mean, do you think people make jokes about Todd Beamer to his widow's face? Same concept.



<center><img src="http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/1003/mikeyboy/tenbatsig.jpg"></center>

[Furtherman]

But I really don't think true O&A fans are going to call in and "make light" of Opie's dad dying.


Those people should go down. Like the Titanic.


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...with thanks to JustJon

[blakjeezis]

There is as much comedy value in this as is there is in the tragic passing of anyone. Just because it's Opie's father makes it no less funny than say Princess Di or Dale Earnhardt. I say, for instance, "Sharon Stone hit the wall harder than Dale Earnhardt," and if it's funny, it's funny. It's funny the day of; it's funny the day after; it's funny 5 years down the road.

If everything is game, then this should be to. The whole tragedy + time = comedy is a silly radio bit. It's cute, but it's not true. Ask Princes William and Harry if Princesse Di jokes are funny. I'm sure they'll tell you a different story than Opie and Anthony would, even though that happened quite a while ago.

Just because it's Opie suffering this particular tragedy, that doesn't, or at least shouldn't, exempt him from his turn "in the barrel" as they like to say. If a caller tries to crowbar a joke about it into his call and it's awful then he gets the same response as someone who just says something dumb. If they use it cleverly or funnily then it should be taken as that. After all, like I said in the other thread, Opie can be quoted as saying "The enemy of creativity is good taste." Now's his chance to stand behind his words.


Edit: This is all based on the assumption that Opie is going to have a problem with jokes being made about this. I really hope he doesn't. He shouldn't, after all he's made a a damn fine living, in part, on exploiting other peoples' tragedies for comedic effect. Just mocking his father to do it is dumb, and I'm not suggesting that. Although, judging by the average of the strictly O and A fans (i.e. no R and F crossover) that I've met, I'm not sure they understand some of the subtler aspects of comedy anyway. And I'm not asking O and A to make a "bit" out of his death. But, it should be open fodder for radio comedy. Think of Stern and his wife's miscarriage.

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This message was edited by blakjeezis on 8-18-04 @ 3:22 PM

[Melrapuo]

I'm not sure what will happen, but I'm sure Opie won't see this as something to be joked about for some time.

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[badorties]

making fun of any tragedy is not in good taste, period ...

that doesn't mean it's not funny ...

and for o/a, who took great strides in pushing a 'tasteless'/'cringe'/'inappropiate' brand of humour, some retribution is expected ...

unnecessary and base, but could be funny ...

to paraphrase themselves, opie's dad dying is funny 'cause it's not me ...


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[Jack_Doff]

I was thinking this would go down more like Stern's divorce. He rode Kathy Lee Gifford pretty hard when she was getting divorced from Frank, but when Stern and his wife got divorced, Kathy Lee sent him a card that read something to the effect of I understand what you are going through and Stern was like it's not right to make fun of people in situations like this. If you have made a career creating humor off the misfortunes of others, nothing can be off limits, even if the misfortune happened to you.

[TheMojoPin]

It's all a matter of context, and people using common sense.

CAN you make these kind of jokes? Sure, of course.

SHOULD you feel you can make them to anyone at any time? Of course not.

bj used the example of the sons of Princess Di...people make jokes about her, and even her death...but do you think they do it TO them? I certainly hope not.

People feel they must joke about the awful things Opie is going through right now? Hey, that's their call. This is a public forum, and they can do so. But to go out of one's way and to call Opie up and bust his balls over it is like if one of you lost a parent, and somebody went out of THEIR way to come to your place of work, or call you up, and make fun of your dead parent right in front of you.

Context and common sense. That's what it comes down to. Just use your brain for two seconds before you open your mouth, people.

Does that make the jokes NOT funny? No. Does it mean Opie is somehow obligated to have his dead parent's memory indulted "to his face?" No. It's not like he was calling people up who lost their loved ones and making fun of that loss right in front of them. He did it from "afar." There IS a difference.

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1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 8-18-04 @ 3:29 PM

[badorties]

Face it, the comedy value of this is nothing. It was a car crash, it was sudden, it was tragic.


with comedy being so subjective, what is the exact formula for something to be funny ...

anything tragic, horrific or painful can be funny -- albeit, tasteless ... delivery and quality of the material is key ...


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[blakjeezis]

bj used the example of the sons of Princess Di...people make jokes about her, and even her death...but do you think they do it TO them? I certainly hope not.


But the princes didn't make their bones making fun of other peoples' ill fortune. And I'm not saying people should call in and be like, "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOUR FATHER'S DEAD! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA."

Both Opie and Anthony, really more Opie or at least Opie's radio character, have created an environment where the best method of 'getting over', as they say in the wrestling business, is to mock other people; no holds barred, tragedy or not. All you need to do is go over to the any one of the numerous O and A message boards and that becomes pathetically obvious. That's part of the reason why the internet was such an integral and successful part of their show; it allowed listeners to engage in the anti-social activity that O and A themselves did for our entertainment on-air, in complete anonymity. But I'm getting way off topic and turning this into a Sociology class.

Like I said, they don't need to devote an hour to making fun of Opie's father's death, but if it does come up, he should take it in the same manner that he demands others take his jabs.

To quote one of their bumpers, CAN'T ANYONE TAKE A JOKE ANYMORE!!!!?? Because that's all it is. It's just a joke, right?

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This message was edited by blakjeezis on 8-18-04 @ 3:44 PM

[Tenbatsuzen]

I think another key difference in differentiating what the comedy value is...

Princess Di and Dale Earnhardt were celebrities. Joe Hughes was not.

Let's say Dale Junior was in the studios in November.

O&A start talking shit about his dad dying.

To be honest, I don't see how possibly that can be made into funny.

Same concept with someone calling in to give Opie shit about his dad.

Mojo was right - when O&A are cracking jokes, it's done from afar. Do you think Opie finds ANY comedy in his father's death?

I mean, even Anthony could find some comedy in his divorce. But again, there's a world of difference between someone getting a divorce, the death of a celebrity and mocking it from afar, and the death of a private citizen and mocking to their face.



<center><img src="http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/1003/mikeyboy/tenbatsig.jpg"></center>

[TheMojoPin]

To quote one of their bumpers, CAN'T ANYONE TAKE A JOKE ANYMORE!!!!?? Because that's all it is. It's just a joke, right?

But did they ever go out of their way to call someone up, or have them in-studio, famous or otherwise, with the primary intention that they were going to make fun of this person's recently deceased loved one to their face? That's the difference.

Because that's seriously what this is comparable to. As prickish as Opie is, he's never done anything that means he should tolerate people GOING OUT OF THEIR WAY to make fun of his dead dad TO him.

If some other radio show wants to do four hours about it? Hey, who cares. But if they somehow get him in there, and THEN did it TO him, that's pretty fucking low. And that's basically what callers who would do this are doing. CAN they do it? Sure. It's just pretty pathetic if they feel they have to, and Opie doesn't deserve it, nor is he "owed" it.

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1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[blakjeezis]

bj used the example of the sons of Princess Di...people make jokes about her, and even her death...but do you think they do it TO them? I certainly hope not.

Let's say Dale Junior was in the studios in November.
O&A start talking shit about his dad dying.

Because that's seriously what this is comparable to. As prickish as Opie is, he's never done anything that means he should tolerate people GOING OUT OF THEIR WAY to make fun of his dead dad TO him.

Taken from the other thread: Or let's just say, playing sound effects of car crashes when on the phone with Linda Lovelace's sister. For those who don't know, Linda Lovelace died, just as tragically as Opie's father, in a car crash after getting out of the porn industry.

Do you think Opie finds ANY comedy in his father's death?
How hard do you think Linda's sister was laughing when she heard about that accident?


Once again, I'm not saying that Opie is 'owed' it, nor am I attacking him because he hasn't done anything. I'm really just calling shenanigans on Tenbats. All of a sudden this should be off-limits because it's Opie? I disagree with that, and I'd like to think Opie would agree with me. Maybe Gregg wouldn't, but Opie would.

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This message was edited by blakjeezis on 8-18-04 @ 4:00 PM

[TheMojoPin]

Wait, Linda Lovelace's sister was actually a guest on the show, and they played car crash sounds while she was on?

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1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[blakjeezis]

Yes, while they interviewed her over the phone.

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[TheMojoPin]

Oh, well, then fuck it.

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1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 8-19-04 @ 9:03 PM

[Tenbatsuzen]

Yes, while they interviewed her over the phone.



Wasn't it part of a "Bad Guest" bit, though? I'm not trying to defend here, but they didn't go out of their way to piss her off - she called in to them for the interview. She was giving a bad interview, as I recall...




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[Jack_Doff]

Wasn't it part of a "Bad Guest" bit, though? I'm not trying to defend here, but they didn't go out of their way to piss her off - she called in to them for the interview. She was giving a bad interview, as I recall...


Well I guess that taught her not to refine her interviewing skills.

[TheMojoPin]

Alright, so if Opie is doing a bad show, we have free range to call in and rag about his dead dad?

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1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 8-18-04 @ 4:06 PM

[Tenbatsuzen]

Alright, so if Opie is doing a bad show, we have free range to call in and rag about his dead dad?




I believe the sister was calling in whore her book - in other words, trying to make a buck off her dead sister's legend. Fair game.

Would Opie try to make money off his father's death?



<center><img src="http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/1003/mikeyboy/tenbatsig.jpg"></center>

[blakjeezis]

Or what about the time Opie played the clips of Hitler's speeches while they interviewed the Holocaust survivor?

I'm not saying he should or shouldn't have done these things, or that they were or weren't funny. I'm just against the idea that because it's Opie's father it should be off-limits; it's complete hypocrisy. That's all.

And again, this isn't directed at Opie, because we don't know what his 'on-air' reaction will be. I offer him and his family all the condolences and prayers I can. Nobody should lose a loved one in such a sudden, tragic way.

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This message was edited by blakjeezis on 8-18-04 @ 4:13 PM

[TheMojoPin]

What book? I can't find anything on Amazon.com about any book about Linda Lovelace written by ANY family member. The only thing I can find anywhere about her sister is her stating after Linda's death that Linda was broke.

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1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[blakjeezis]

My memory is real fuzzy, but I think it had something to do with Linda wanting to help girls get out of the porn industry or something like that. I know after she got out, Linda was a complete anti-porn crusader. I don't know if she'd written a book or the sister had written a book, or if she and/or Linda had started a foundation to that end.

Like I said, my memory is not so good, but I'm pretty sure it was something along those lines.

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This message was edited by blakjeezis on 8-18-04 @ 4:21 PM

[TheMojoPin]

Yeah, I knew all that, and that's what I figured. All of the quotes from Linda's sister are along those lines...maybe she was on the show pushing LINDA'S books.

Yeah, granted, she was using the publicity of her sister's death, but it sounds like it was for something her sister believed was a good cause and was passionate about.

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1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[badorties]

Wasn't it part of a "Bad Guest" bit, though? I'm not trying to defend here, but they didn't go out of their way to piss her off - she called in to them for the interview. She was giving a bad interview, as I recall...


again, context ... you have no relation to her or her sister, and you (probably) found it funny ...

it seems you're making this personal; for all the inappropiate material o/a delivered, who decides that one can't joke about a specific car crash ...

would you be so concerned if it was scott shannon or stern's dad ...?


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[keithy_19]

How are we having this discussion?

There is nothing funny about this at all. It's like someone making a joke about 9/11. It's in bad taste and the person should be kicked out into the street and beat.

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[badorties]

via a message board ...

taste has nothing to do with something being funny ...


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[mikeyboy]

You're pretty off base. What happened is that somebody had seen a story that said that Linda Lovelace's family couldn't afford to bury her, so O&A's purpose in calling was to offer to pay for the burial. They got her sister on the phone, and said something like "we're big fans of your sister, and big fans of porn." She hung up on them. Somebody on the staff called her off air and persuaded her to come back on the air. Her sister was obviously upset and in tears. She told them that Linda had already been buried, so they didn't need anyone to pay for the burial. Then she stayed on the phone and talked about her sister, and maybe the foundation that she set up to help people get out of porn. During the entire time she was talking, they played (i think) car crash noises and porn noises. For me, it was the hardest O&A bit to listen to of all the ones I heard. They replayed it a day or two later, and I had to shut off the radio.


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[Se7en]

I'm looking forward to some good Mr. Hughes jokes, frankly. I hope we get to hear them.

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[Tenbatsuzen]

Then she stayed on the phone and talked about her sister, and maybe the foundation that she set up to help people get out of porn. During the entire time she was talking, they played (i think) car crash noises and porn noises. For me, it was the hardest O&A bit to listen to of all the ones I heard. They replayed it a day or two later, and I had to shut off the radio.




Ouch.

All right, that is over the line.

Of course, I'd have to relisten to the bit in question so I can make sure that the context is correct.

Here's my question, and I say this from a technical standpoint: Was the sister AWARE of the drops and music being played?

The whole gag of the ping pong/drops and music being played over a boring caller is that the person on the phone doesn't hear the drops and therefore keeps rambling.

Front that standpoint, if the sister was unaware, it's still kind of poking fun from afar.

Maybe I'm reaching here.

The point is, O&A didn't make a NORMAL HABIT of doing this to people's faces. Maybe they realized how over the line the bit was.




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[Doctor Manhattan]

I'll make this simple. If Opie's dad is off limits on their show (given a proper amount of time) then they are hypocrites. They made fun of someone dying in a car crash. It could come up again regarding Opie's Dad.

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[Doctor Manhattan]

I like it when O&A go over the line. This is why I love Jim Norton.



There is nothing funny about this at all. It's like someone making a joke about 9/11. It's in bad taste and the person should be kicked out into the street and beat.


No, That person should be labeled "In Bad Taste" not beat for making a fucking joke. If it's not funny. Don't laugh. Make fun of that person, call him/her a hack. Say he sucks. Make fun of his parents. But to beat a person for something he says isn't cool. I am pro-free speech as long as people are held accountable for what they say.

Osama should be kicked out into the street and beat, to death. Not some douchebag who tries to make a joke.

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This message was edited by SKW on 8-18-04 @ 8:01 PM

[Se7en]

No, That person should be labeled "In Bad Taste" not beat for making a fucking joke. If it's not funny. Don't laugh. Make fun of that person, call him/her a hack. Say he sucks. Make fun of his parents. But to beat a person for something he says isn't cool. I am pro-free speech as long as people are held accountable for what they say.

To paraphrase Chris Rock, at some point there's a good reason to kick anyone's ass.

Sometimes words are reason enough.

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[Katylina]

The man's father just died in a car crash. Why are we even debating whether if it's cool or not to make jokes about it? That's really truly fucked up.

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[Tenbatsuzen]

The man's father just died in a car crash. Why are we even debating whether if it's cool or not to make jokes about it? That's really truly fucked up.



I created this thread as not to derail the other thread.

Personally, I think making jokes is disgusting. But I wanted to know why he thought it was ok.



<center><img src="http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/1003/mikeyboy/tenbatsig.jpg"></center>

[TheMojoPin]

Because with a lot of O&A fans, and the fact the boys are coming back onto the air so soon after this, you knew the issue was inevitable.

I guess it's a discourse on the perception of "celebrity," and what that gives/takes away.

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1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 8-18-04 @ 9:03 PM

[Heather 8]

Here's my question, and I say this from a technical standpoint: Was the sister AWARE of the drops and music being played?

The whole gag of the ping pong/drops and music being played over a boring caller is that the person on the phone doesn't hear the drops and therefore keeps rambling.

Front that standpoint, if the sister was unaware, it's still kind of poking fun from afar.

Maybe I'm reaching here.


I just re-listened to the bit, and, if the sister COULD hear the sound effects (as was earlier mentioned, sounds of car crashes, moaning, and zippers) she never acknowledged it.

After they hung up with her, Ant asked, "OK, where do I hand in my membership card to the human race?" and just freaked out over the fact that the noises got no response from the woman.

And, just for the sake of mentioning it, the callers after the fact were quite brutal too ("I wanted to make a donation, but the sperm bank was closed and I couldn't make a deposit.").

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This message was edited by Peachy on 8-18-04 @ 9:08 PM

[Katylina]

Personally, I think making jokes is disgusting.


And this is something we agree on.

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[Iamnotatool]

Whether its Op's dad or anyone else's, if you can't find better material, you don't belong on the air.

Death is like, forever. That's a really long time.

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[Katylina]

Death is like, forever. That's a really long time.


That was profound.

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[Iamnotatool]

Spank you very much Mrs. Kitty Kat.

I'm wicked profound.

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[Iamnotatool]

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This message was edited by Iamnotatool on 8-18-04 @ 10:51 PM

[Tenbatsuzen]

Death is like, forever. That's a really long time.



But I'm here to tell you, there's something else... the afterworld.

A world of never ending happiness... you can always see the sun... day... or night.

<center><img src="http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/1003/mikeyboy/tenbatsig.jpg"></center>

[Doctor Manhattan]

Whether its Op's dad or anyone else's, if you can't find better material, you don't belong on the air.

Then do O&A belong on the air?

<a href="http://members.cox.net/cousinken/itsabouttime.mp3"><img src="http://members.cox.net/nicksporsche/bushchen.jpg" border=0></a>

[badorties]

Whether its Op's dad or anyone else's, if you can't find better material, you don't belong on the air.

Then do O&A belong on the air?


if/when stern's dad dies, will it be okay to joke about taking 'his dead daddy's skull' and skull fucking it ...

i'm more amazed by the arbitrary lines of deceny, we tend to draw when it favour those that we care about ...

we're a very protective lot when it comes to the teams, bands, athletes, personalities and politicians we follow or adore ...

like those that tore clinton a new ass ten years ago for not going to vietnam, now are going so far to call kerry a war criminal ...

there really isn't too much difference


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[Heather 8]

Here's a thought: how 'bout waiting till the guys get back on the air?

Pretty presumptive of you to condemn them for what they haven't even had the opportunity to comment on yet.

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My sexy sig iz pastede on YAY!!!!11!

[curtoid]

Personally, I would hope that having been off the air for two years they might have a little more to say than focus' on whether or not anyone is allowed to laugh at the death of his father, when they come back next month.

I'll make this simple. If Opie's dad is off limits on their show (given a proper amount of time) then they are hypocrites. They made fun of someone dying in a car crash. It could come up again regarding Opie's Dad.

Who is the bigger hypocrite, though - them, or their fans who have sliding scale where it comes to what's off limits because O&A say so? They are five - six weeks from being back on the air, and already there is mindless defensiveness over what they haven't even said, or not said, yet. It's just asanine, and if it were any other show (aside from R&F) two threads on this topic wouldn't have been allowed.

Sure, I suppose it is fair to speculate what they won't or will do - after all, they and their fans certainly didn't make fun of Opie's grandmother dying two years back, and O&A themselves could never be accused of having a reputation of being compassionate - but come on, now...I'm sure the man is devestated, and I'm sure he'll figure a way to find the proper balance with it and his professional life, but take a little perspective - in the end what we are talking about is the personal lives of people on a radio show...isn't there a few more important things in this great, big wonderful worlds to get panties in a twist over???



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"Don't believe everything you read on message boards." - RB

[Captain Rooster]

((knock knock))

who gives a fuck?

((cricket))

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[Zipgun]

How about this?


Leave the guy alone.


If you're a fan of the show and all, why would you want to be the one who calls in with the uncomfortable joke? Especially to someone you are supposedly a "supporter" of.

If it was your friend, would you call him and make the joke? Of course not.

So don't be a dick.


Just leave it alone.

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it's like wiping my ass with Jesus. - Poot

[color=White]

[mdr55]

:|

This message was edited by mdr55 on 8-19-04 @ 12:10 AM

[Mike Teacher]

Forget Tragedy + Time = Comedy

For me, there hasnt been Time for much except for Not to get into some of these discussions. Someone's Dad died suddenly; thats enough for me to focus on for a while.

Flame away.

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[ChickenHawk]

First time ever, I agree completely with Tenbats' post. Well said.

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[monsterone]

being a shock jock, he's open to jokes from callers and other jocks. nature of the biz i guess. cringe radio goes both ways - and there were times i had to turn off o&a cuz of cringe.

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[Doctor Manhattan]

I'll let it go. I don't wish for this to come up as a joke on their show. My original statement (in response to blakjeezis bringing up Linda Lovelace's car crash) was meant to be: I hope the "On Air personalities" of the two haven't changed too much in this time since the Sex in the Church bit.

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