People who Don't Believe in Evolution...

[LiquidCourage]

Are such jerkoffs it's unbelievable. I was arguing with this guy about it. Basically, he attacked the argument of evolution over some crap about how the eye is so complex it couldn't have possibly formed like that on it own or something. It was such a weak argument it made me want to laugh, or vomit.

His answer:
The Earth was created 2000 years ago in a week, tada!

[ChickenHawk]

They're not jerkoffs... They're just retarded.

<IMG SRC="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=ChickenHawk">
HORDE KING FOREVER!!! ORACLE NEVER!!!
<strike>Shock</strike>
<marquee behavior=alternate><font size=2><b>EMFA</b></font></marquee>[color=white]

[JPMNICK]

if there were a god he would never let people live their lives with diseases like diabetes. It just doesn't make sense.

to me, this is a crazy arguement. I believe in evolution and feel strongly about it, but there are people who feel just as strong the other way.

It is hard to argue because it is such a split issue.
To me, all evidence points towards eveolution, but i guess we find out when we die!

http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

[Iamnotatool]

I don't believe in evolution, but I do believe in RANDY ORTON!

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/iamnotatool.gif>
Please don't hold my huge nutbag against me, or I'll hold it against you that you have flapjack tits

[TheMojoPin]

if there were a god he would never let people live their lives with diseases like diabetes. It just doesn't make sense.

Why not? That just makes the idea of a purely benevolent God kind of confusing. Maybe God is just a prick. I mean, we ARE made in his image, and most of the people we meet in our lives are pretty unbearable...

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Furtherman]

People who Don't Believe in Evolution...


are sad.

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

[JPMNICK]

if there is a god then to me there is to much that does not make sense.

why would he judge us for eternity based on 50-80 years on earth? why not just go right to heaven.

and we know god is not a prick, he is god for CHRIST SAKES.


also, if there is creationism, then why do so many people fight over religion. and believe in different gods. If there was a god, wouldn't he try and stop this.

and then a quick though. the greeks though everything was a god, there was one for the sun, moon, everything. we think that is crazy now. i think that is hypocritcal. who is to say they were wrong and we are fight. what if everyone is wrong and evolution made us the way we are.


http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

[LiquidCourage]

"if there were a god he would never let people live their lives with diseases like diabetes. It just doesn't make sense."

No, no, no, that's just Satan doing his dirty work!

[JohnnyCash]

People who Don't Believe in Evolution...

Dont believe in the Ultimate "Steve Perry Era" Journey Show!

<IMG SRC="http://www.osirusonline.com/cashsig.gif">
Thank You Reefdwella

[jeffdwright2001]

[quote]
People who Don't Believe in Evolution...


Will eventually come around to the idea.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v297/jeffdwright2001/sigs/rfnet-jdw.jpg
"Man is the only animal that blushes . . . or needs to" - Mark Twain
Thanks to Reefy for the sigpic!

[TheMojoPin]

To me, evolution is pretty fucking miraculous, so I just don't "get" why some or so determined that it doesn't fit into "God's plan."

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Furtherman]

"god's plan" involved Adam and Eve.

Or was that just a story? Clever god, always making us think.

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

[UnknownPD]

Aren't there atheists that don't believe in evolution?

The argument seems to be either you believe in evolution or God why not both or neither?

[jeffdwright2001]

"god's plan" involved Adam and Eve.

Or was that just a story? Clever god, always making us think.

And why was incest a necessity early on, but frowned on at the end of the Bible?

Do we need to rethink the advice we gave to CrazyClare?

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v297/jeffdwright2001/sigs/rfnet-jdw.jpg
"Man is the only animal that blushes . . . or needs to" - Mark Twain
Thanks to Reefy for the sigpic!

[Mike Teacher]

The argument seems to be either you believe in evolution or God why not both or neither?


For me, the whole thing was just summed up better then i could ever do above.

I see no problem with belief in a God and also in Evolution. Neither do scientists all over the world; many profess belief, and see not conflict.

-

The Arguement from Complexity of the eye is used often because Darwin himself had problems dealing with the arising of such a complex thing. Similar to the Argument from Design. Finding a working clock on the beach and all that. Someone forgot to tell them clocks don't reporduce. However, they most certainly evolve.

The arguement is usually along the lines of 'what good was half, or 3/4 of an eye? How can something complex evolve if the intermediate stages are useless.

Well, in nature we see half an eye is just fine. Some get along with no sight at all, and at it's simplest form, we have all sorts of life on earth with light receptice cells, and they are put to good use.

-

Its not easy; I still don't get much of it, and ditto with Science; there are many unknowns, and creationists call these into Question: 'The God of the Gaps'; meaning, the logic is, if you cant explain it, it must have been God. I cant make that leap.

-

But I'm not sold on a purely 'intelligence-less' evolution. To me, it is also somewhat a leap of faith to posit that if you take a bunch of Hydrogen atoms and give them a few billion years or so, they can assemble into something that can paint the Sistine Chapel. The fact that we evolved brains such that we can look and examine all of this, and abstract about it?

Maybe its God, maybe its Evoluton, maybe its a Middle way, and I'll tell you this; we're still in the Stone Age in a lot of Science. Think that Giant Squid; like others said, we dont even know Shit about our own Oceans. Cant predict where a hurricane is gonna go, so anything in science I hold as Conditional. Meaning there's discoveries out there I am betting will make us look back to 2004 and go, holy Shit we were Clueless!

We are.

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/anisig3">

[NewYorkDragons80]

Basically, he attacked the argument of evolution over some crap about how the eye is so complex it couldn't have possibly formed like that on it own or something.
What sickens me is that he basically stole/adapted that argument from Father William O'Malley, a Jesuit priest who argues that evolution PROVES the existence of God. O'Malley contends that natural selection is selection by a conscious force. Later on in his book, he argues that the human eye is reason enough to believe in God. Something along the lines of "Balls of jelly designed to interpret light in order to understand their surroundings..." Then he mentions the earliest microorganisms first using sight and opines that this was no accident. So basically this fuck probably heard an excellent argument (probably second or thirdhand at best) and used it for a purpose totally opposite its original contention.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[Mike Teacher]

Then he mentions the earliest microorganisms first using sight and opines that this was no accident. So basically this fuck probably heard an excellent argument (probably second or thirdhand at best) and used it for a purpose totally opposite its original contention.


Sheesh here I am a ham-and-egger compared to you guys. Took me a lot of research, but I found So many examples of this:

Proof of God: First organisms had photoreceptive cells.

But the fact that we have seen eyes evolve independently in Totally and Utterly Different Phyla is just another brick on the ghiza pyramid of evidence for evolution.

=

But I get drawn in to this minutia; if I were you, I might remind that friend of yours that Evolution means simple change. And it's not only did it happen, its happening Now, we can see it, we see new lifeforms arise we see the evolution of resistant strains and What are we up to Hep E? F? G?

People evolve. Cars Evolve. Stars evolve. Galaxies evolve. Bacteria Evolve. for fuck sake Gould has a piece on the Evolution of Mickey Mouse complete with diagrams.

And unless we had the Age When Wild Poodles Roamed the Earth; we did that. Evolution is so easy, changing things, w've been doing it since we started doing some real agriculture and breeding. Dogs, cats, cows, and landscapes changed to acres of corn, rice, and beans; these are products of our intent to do this, we changed how frigging nature looks to some extent with this.

Ugh. fished in again. Evolution? Sheeesh just look around; it's all changing.

And I'll leave this post as Long and Boring as it is and just say; if you want to be Blown Away by a creationist: Google Duane Gish and the ICR Institute for Creation Research. Yow.

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/anisig3">

This message was edited by Mike Teacher on 8-17-04 @ 3:04 PM

[HBox]

You know, everybody's worried about nuclear war, asteroids, comets or global warming wiping out humanity, but no one's on the look out for the next super-species that will take domination of Earth from man and kill or enslave us! Dammit, we gotta nip this shit in the bud!

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

This message was edited by HBox on 8-17-04 @ 3:18 PM

[keithy_19]

I believe that God created the world. I also know that species have adapted to enviorments and changed over time. If that means evolution, then ok. But I did not come from a monkey.

http://64.177.177.182/katylina/50s_sig.jpg

[jeffdwright2001]

I believe that God created the world. I also know that species have adapted to enviorments and changed over time. If that means evolution, then ok. But I did not come from a monkey.

I thought we'd already established you came from a Beaver. ;)
http://www.antiquetalk.com/beaver2.jpg


http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v297/jeffdwright2001/sigs/rfnet-jdw.jpg
"Man is the only animal that blushes . . . or needs to" - Mark Twain
Thanks to Reefy for the sigpic!

This message was edited by jeffdwright2001 on 8-17-04 @ 3:43 PM

[Mike Teacher]

Come from a Monkey? Fine, ya didnt come from a Monkey, but why thats relevant I dont know, since evolution says Nothing of the kind.

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/anisig3">

[Furtherman]

I believe that God created the world.


How planets are formed (http://hubblesite.org/reference_desk/faq/answer.php.id=2&cat=solarsystem)

In fact, we are witnessing planets being created today.

New Images Show Signs of Planets Forming around Young Star (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&articleID=000F1E16-226E-111D-941783414B7F4945)


But I did not come from a monkey.


No, you actually came from a common ancestor that humans and chimpanzees share. Did you know we share 99.4% identical DNA with chimps?

Seems kinda cruel that god would give them all that brain power - but just not enough so they have to stay in the trees and fling feces, doesn't it?

You're young. You'll learn.
<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon


This message was edited by Furtherman on 8-17-04 @ 3:49 PM

[JPMNICK]

i do not think evolution says we came from anything. its not like a monkey had a baby one day and it was a human. it is a gradual split and change in a species into a new and unique species. at least that is the way i learned it.

http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

[TheMojoPin]

And we were very careful to kill off all the similar species so that we'd have the only shot at owning the planet.

Go, US!

But just to parrot what's already been said, why do some think evolution and belief in God have to be mutually exclusive? I certainly believe in God, and ACCEPT evolution (You don't "believe" in science).

Maybe the problem is a lot of the people that want God over evolution think like Keithy and honestly believe evolution is somehow saying we're descended from monkeys. EDUCATION, people!

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Furtherman]

Our species, homo sapiens (easy on the jokes please) is relatively new on this planet. There were a dozen or more similar types of human-like species, but they all died out, the last ones being the Neanderthal.

Most people think that our ancestors were Neanderthal, but they are more like a long lost cousin. They're actually an entire different species.

Read this website to get some facts creationists, you just may learn something:

Walking With Cavemen (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/cavemen/chronology/contentpage1.shtml)

[keithy_19]

In my biology text book it showed the picture of a monkey and the stages of it turning into a man.

http://64.177.177.182/katylina/50s_sig.jpg

[Iamnotatool]

Keithy, in Patrick Ewing's history book, the man turns into the monkey.


Que Ani

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/iamnotatool.gif>
Please don't hold my huge nutbag against me, or I'll hold it against you that you have flapjack tits

[TheMojoPin]

Keithy, did you READ anything in that book?

Unless it's over 50 years old (And if it's a public school, maybe it is), then the text would read very similar to what Furtherman explained.

That's not a "monkey" as we know them today. That's a completely seperate species that both man and chimpanzees share.

This is not unusual. At least thousands of species throughout nature share common ancestors. That doesn't make them the same species NOW.

Bottom line? That's not a monkey.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 8-17-04 @ 4:29 PM

[Dudeman]

I believe that God created the world. I also know that species have adapted to enviorments and changed over time. If that means evolution, then ok. But I did not come from a monkey.

this is one of the funniest ron and fez characters since kenny allen and retart martin.


-I'll log off now, and listen to your
response.-

[Furtherman]

In my biology text book it showed the picture of a monkey and the stages of it turning into a man.


I'm not an expert on high school biology textbooks, but I'd bet your book is just giving you basic facts - a general feel of what evolution is. Look at the picture again. Is it labled "monkey"?

But what is move believable? The monkey-man theory or that we were created by a god?

A question for Mike The Teacher: When teaching, did you ever come across textbooks and just wonder how it was even published? I remember my high school history books were just crap - full of half-truths and just flat out wrong about the world we live in. I found all this out later on though, through my own self learning.

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

[TheMojoPin]

Amen about the text books, FM.

Even though this book is about HISTORY books and not science texts, it's still essential for the very reasons you mentioned...

http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/books/bookcovers/LiesTeacherTold.jpeg

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[UnknownPD]

Seems kinda cruel that god would give them all that brain power - but just not enough so they have to stay in the trees and fling feces, doesn't it?


Don't know about that one. I find the thought of hanging in the trees all day and tossing feces somehow appealing.

[Def Dave in SC]

It has been said already, so I'm just echoing some points.


Why couldnt Earth have been created in its primordial stage with just the building blocks of life? Sort of a deitic science experiment.

OR,

Why can't evolution be God's handiwork? Hmmm maybe this type of fur or that shape beak would work better here? Why cant every stage of evolution be looked at as divine intervention?

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=DefDave"><br>

Much Love to my Homies dcpete, Todd EVF, Pantera, Tall_James, Saddlelight Kam (sp?) and everyone else who made me a sig


UCF:AYBABTU

[whoopsy]

People who Don't Believe in Evolution...


will mostly be voting GWB in November

- whoopsy -

<img src='http://geocities.com/danmcmillan/sigPicBall.jpg'>

[Mike Teacher]

A question for Mike The Teacher: When teaching, did you ever come across textbooks and just wonder how it was even published?


Yeah, they're pretty much Horrific for the most part.

Textbook sellers wanna sell texts, and if they're gonna sell, they're gonna have to appeal to a lot of peeps, and not offending anyone, and the result is watered down, boring books.

Keith's diagram may indeed start with a Monkey. There are several diagrams like he describes that do. And if I saw the same diagram, I, like Keith, would conclude that progression.

But Stephen Gould called that exact diagram: The Iconography of a Myth. Which if it's a monkey at the beginning, it is.

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/anisig3">

This message was edited by Mike Teacher on 8-17-04 @ 7:11 PM

[Katylina]

I believe we evolved, but I also believe in reincarnation of the sould. So perhaps reeshy was a monkey back in the day, but now he is the man we know and love. (no offense-- that's for knocking me up in your sig). I think there is some sort of higher being that is in control of where our soul goes in our next life. What we know as heaven is where we wait to be put into a new body. I swear I used to be alive back when Britian was ruled by monarchs.

<center>

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=katylina">
<a href="http://www.pagerealm.com/katylina/index.html" target=_new>Katylina's Web Page</a>
<br>
<br>
<marquee>I found you can find happiness in slavery...<marquee>

[Yerdaddy]

But I did not come from a monkey.

That's not what the monkey says.

http://www.bornfree.org.uk/zoocheck/images/monkey1.jpg

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[FUNKMAN]

i believe in evolution...

at one point in europe it was fashionable to have head lice

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/monster6sixty6/guests/fm2_sig.jpg">

[Mike Teacher]

I swear I used to be alive back when Britian was ruled by monarchs.


I know someone who has told me a story of his visiting The Last Supper. And a guy who spent the last years of his life building the Throne for Jesus' return.

So it's all good.

I think in my past lives I've been a pocket comb, several thousand Rabbis, and a Hershey's with Almonds Chocolate Bar.

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/anisig3">

[NewYorkDragons80]

Then he mentions the earliest microorganisms first using sight and opines that this was no accident. So basically this fuck probably heard an excellent argument (probably second or thirdhand at best) and used it for a purpose totally opposite its original contention.


Sheesh here I am a ham-and-egger compared to you guys. Took me a lot of research, but I found So many examples of this:

Proof of God: First organisms had photoreceptive cells.

But the fact that we have seen eyes evolve independently in Totally and Utterly Different Phyla is just another brick on the ghiza pyramid of evidence for evolution.
I should explain what I meant. When I said "This Fuck", I meant the guy who LiquidCourage was debating, not Fr. O'Malley. The guy he was debating used O'Malley's points for completely different purposes than they were originally intended.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[Katylina]

and a Hershey's with Almonds Chocolate Bar.



I can totally see you going down the Hershey Highway.

<center>

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=katylina">
<a href="http://www.pagerealm.com/katylina/index.html" target=_new>Katylina's Web Page</a>
<br>
<br>
<marquee>I found you can find happiness in slavery...<marquee>

[FUNKMAN]

i have a tough time with evolution and creatures actually having their physical being change to adapt to their surroundings...

i'm sure since the beginning of man man has wanted to fly... so why haven't we developed wings?

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/monster6sixty6/guests/fm2_sig.jpg">

[Tazz]

i have a tough time with evolution and creatures actually having their physical being change to adapt to their surroundings...

i'm sure since the beginning of man man has wanted to fly... so why haven't we developed wings?



Because, as you said, man "wants" to fly. Evolution occurs because it "has" to.

<img src=http://tazz1376.homestead.com/files/homersig.gif>

[Se7en]

But just to parrot what's already been said, why do some think evolution and belief in God have to be mutually exclusive? I certainly believe in God, and ACCEPT evolution (You don't "believe" in science).

I think there are many on this board who follow that view. I am one; I think perhaps TooCute is another, although I'm not entirely certain (and please forgive me if I'm making a mistake, I merely remember her mentioning at one time or another that science and religion are not mutually exclusive).

Maybe the problem is a lot of the people that want God over evolution think like Keithy and honestly believe evolution is somehow saying we're descended from monkeys. EDUCATION, people!

My hypothesis is more along the lines of, back in the day, when the evolution theory was established and began to become fashionable with the intelligencia, some enthusiastic atheists got optimistic that the great and all powerful science was going to finally drive the nail in the coffin of religion.

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/7_sig.gif" width="300" height="100">
<br>
<br>
Don't blame me....I voted for Kodos.
I look forward to an orderly election that will eliminate the need for a violent bloodbath. </center>

[Mike Teacher]

My hypothesis is more along the lines of, back in the day, when the evolution theory was established and began to become fashionable with the intelligencia, some enthusiastic atheists got optimistic that the great and all powerful science was going to finally drive the nail in the coffin of religion.


Oh yes, the Pandora's Box was opened with Darwin. But I wanna take a step back and not to sound lofty or anything, but another one that I hear even Teacher's saying is that Darwin came up with the idea of Evolution. Darwin wasn't the first, We know Plato posited it, and prolly some before that. He wasnt even the first to come up with Natural Selection; he published On The Origin... but Wallace had nailed it too, and a bit earlier.

Like with any paradigm shift or whatever fancy word you wanna call a Big New Thought, the idea of 'Survival of the Fittest' [hey, another one: Darwin never said that] was seen as Finally, the explanation for a Lot of things it had Zero to do with. 'Of Course Those people who look different are inferior! They aren't as evolved as we are! Theyre just a weak subset of our human species! Done with sex, race, height, even looks.

It explained the infirm, the mentally slow, the sick, the weak, and it was a complete twisting of ones ideas to fit their own agendas.

[Edit: Of course I quote Seven and then talk about Social Darwinism instead of the nail in the coffin of religion. I'd say yes to that too, I'm sure some felt this might explain it ALL, like when we got the Atom down to the p, n, and e. Some really thought it was going to be the End of Science; meaning we'd know Everything, there'd be nothing left to find out. And they were Spectacularly Wrong, as Science often is. But that's a good thing. Science is self-correcting. Good science sandblasts at its own theories, trying to discredit them. Mistakes are admitted, and it gets better over time. It... evolves.]



<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/anisig3">

This message was edited by Mike Teacher on 8-17-04 @ 11:39 PM

[TheMojoPin]

Hey, like I said before, God is no less impressive if he's behind evolution, as opposed to just "instantly" creating man.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Freakshow]

I believe I am no longer Homo...



















Sapien


They tell us that
We lost our tails
Evolving up
From little snails
I say it's all
Just wind in sails
Are we not men?

Monkey men all
In business suit
Teachers and critics
All dance the poot
Are we not men?
We are Devo

God made man
But he used the monkey to do it
Apes in the plan
We're all here to prove it
I can walk like an ape
Talk like an ape
I can do what a monkey can do
God made man
But a monkey supplied the glue
We must repeat
O.k. let's go!

<center><img width=300 src=http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=Freakshow>
Thanks Furtherman, Reefdweller, and Monsterone!<br>I hate traveling, mostly because my dad used to beat me with a globe.</center>

[ADF]

If god is perfect, why did he feel the need to create anything? Perfection is, by definition, complete.

<center><a href="http://somesuch.org" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.somesuch.org/sigpics/heroine.gif"></a><i><br><br><b>Roses are red... Violets are blue... All of my base... Are belong to you.</i></b></center>

[Freakshow]

Bart: How would I go about creating a half-man, half-monkey-type creature?
Ms.K: I'm sorry, that would be playing God.
Bart: God shmod! I want my monkey-man!


<center><img width=300 src=http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=Freakshow>
Thanks Furtherman, Reefdweller, and Monsterone!<br>I hate traveling, mostly because my dad used to beat me with a globe.</center>

[TooCute]

I think there are many on this board who follow that view. I am one; I think perhaps TooCute is another, although I'm not entirely certain (and please forgive me if I'm making a mistake, I merely remember her mentioning at one time or another that science and religion are not mutually exclusive).

You remember correctly but no, I do not believe in god. Neither do my parents - and my parents don't even know what religion their parents were. ("I think my mother was protestant... or something?")

<img src="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/bans/toocute3.gif">

[NewYorkDragons80]

science and religion are not mutually exclusive
Ladies and gentlemen, the moral of the story.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[LordJezo]

I don't see any reason to belive in evolution.

If anyone can provide some facts that support this billions of years crap that the evolution extremists preach to everyone then I might change my mind. Until then I will stick with creation science.

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

[Doctor Manhattan]

People who Don't Believe in Evolution... Are such jerkoffs it's unbelievable.

No, I said I CAN'T believe they MADE "Evolution"
http://www.cinema.com/image_lib/5182_poster_thumb.jpg

<a href="http://members.cox.net/cousinken/itsabouttime.mp3"><img src="http://members.cox.net/nicksporsche/bushchen.jpg" border=0></a>

[Mike Teacher]

Hey I loved that Movie:

'I think we've established that 'Ka-KAW Ka-KAW' is Not working!...'


If anyone can provide some facts that support this billions of years crap


Hey no problem, thats cool, its a big number.
Would you accept this? If you go out on a dark night in the summer, in dark skies, you can see M31, our neighbor, the Andromeda Galaxy. Now scientists of every religion every faith, and disbelievers, have measure the distance to this galaxy using about a half-dozen different methods, over decades of time, literally thousands of measurements over the years.

And they all get the same answer, every time: a little over 2 million light-years. Meaning, when we see that smudge of light we are seeing light from it that left there 2.2 million years ago, and is finally arriving in our eyes.

Anyone can see it; the measurement methods are exhaustive and varied, some can be done by home astronomers with store-bought equipment, and every time; 2 million+ light years.

So the lights been flying around for 2.2 million light-years. Would you accept that? If not, please present your evidence of a 2,000-6,000 year old universe, hey make a number, and present the evidence for it.

Dick Clark I will take for 500 years old max on his word.

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/anisig3">

This message was edited by Mike Teacher on 8-18-04 @ 11:25 AM

[Furtherman]

If anyone can provide some facts that support this billions of years crap that the evolution extremists preach to everyone then I might change my mind.


*snicker*

Hey, take a trip to your local natural history museum.

OR educate yourself. I'm guessing you think the earth is only a couple thousand years old because of your "billions of years crap" line, which might the funniest thing I've read here in some time.

Educated yourself on carbon dating. There is just one of many facts.

Carbon Dating Method (http://www.c14dating.com/int.html)

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

[LordJezo]

That's assuming that the speed of light is fixed in stone (it's not, in the past 300 years light speed has slowed down) and that the millions of light years actually refers to a constant view of time, which Einstein has shown time is not a constant and can be warped as well.

Sure, it might be that distance as proven by the measurements but that doesn't mean it's that old. Who's to say the light beams were not created when everything else was created? Believing that is no different the believing that everything just popped into existence during the big bang.


------------------------
I KISS YOU!

[Mike Teacher]

That's assuming that the speed of light is fixed in stone (it's not, in the past 300 years light speed has slowed down)

=

Evidence, please.


<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/anisig3">

[LordJezo]

Go do a search on google for "c decay". There you will find the evolution camp debunking it completely and proving it wrong and the creating camp saying it's right and proving it correct.

This is all pretty much a debate that will never be won by either side (unless we get some time travel machines) but is still enjoyable none the less.

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

[JPMNICK]

Setterfield then concluded that the speed of light had lessened or "decayed" from 1675 to the present, and if this trend were projected backwards, the speed of light would have been 1.5 million billion kilometers per second in the year 4040 BC (plus or minus twenty years), approximately 500 billion times faster than it is now. Thus, Setterfield concluded, the only reason why astronomical objects appear to be so far away today is because the speed of light has slowed down by a factor of half a trillion. In reality, says Setterfield, these objects are only several thousand light years away from us. "I propose," Setterfield concluded, "that this initial high value of c would have produced the appearence of great age to the universe in that one week (to those who look with eyes and minds fixed on the current value of c)." (Setterfield, 1981, cited in Strahler, 1990, p. 116)



500 billion times? c'mon. this sounds like a physics discussion after you smoked a bowl.

the speed of light has been proven many times. and if it did decay that amount, which is significant, then we would have noticed at least a slight decay in our measurements.
The speed of light is a constant, until it travels through something to slow it down or shift it. This is creationist math, not logical math. they are scewing numbers to fit into a pre-existing condition

If anything, our instruments and method for measuring this decay would be the problem, not the speed of light itself. it is flawed logic.



http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

This message was edited by JPMNICK on 8-18-04 @ 11:59 AM

[Furtherman]

Ok, I did the google search for c-decay and it seems it is more or less a farce based on some misquoted measurements and articles.

Every recent article dismisses it as just plain wrong.

But the best part was in Google's Related Searches field. It listed "how to get a girlfriend". HA!

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

[Katylina]

http://www.etacuisenaire.com/Assets/product_images/29100eta.jpg

<center>

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=katylina">
<a href="http://www.pagerealm.com/katylina/index.html" target=_new>Katylina's Web Page</a>
<br>
<br>
<marquee>I found you can find happiness in slavery...<marquee>

[JPMNICK]

mr wizard did the best show one time. hehad a fish tank and he poured this powder on the top. he then stuck his hand in there, and when he pulled it out it was not wet! it was amazing to see. anyone know with this magic dust is?

http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

[Mike Teacher]

Go do a search on google for "c decay". There you will find the evolution camp debunking it completely and proving it wrong


Ok I did what you said but what I got was a bunch of websites saying that the challenges to the fixity of C are baseless, as others above have cited.

The discovery would surely garner the discoverers with a Nobel; one at least I'd say.

So, could you please provide evidence for the decay of the speed of light?

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/anisig3">

[TheMojoPin]

If anyone can provide some facts that support this billions of years crap that the evolution extremists preach to everyone then I might change my mind. Until then I will stick with creation science.

Then how the hell do you explain dinosaur fossils that are at least 65 million years old? And NO human "traces" coming even close to that?

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[JPMNICK]

How come dinosaurs or other animals that size are never mentioned in the bible? i am sure that would be be a sigh to see, and one would def. want to write about it. noah took 2 of EVERY animal on the ark, which would have needed to be much larger if dinosaurs were going to be on it

http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

[TheMojoPin]

Yeah, and there are no dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden?

How do creationists fit dinosaurs in ANYWHERE? There is zero evidence they've existed on Earth in the last 65 million years. So there's at least 65 million years you have to work with.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[JPMNICK]

Yeah, and there are no dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden?

How do creationists fit dinosaurs in ANYWHERE? There is zero evidence they've existed on Earth in the last 65 million years. So there's at least 65 million years you have to work with.



One of the funniest explanitions i ever heard from some one waas this: (it may have been a priest who told me this)

they said that the earth spun at a different speed back then, and that one day when god created the earth may not have been equal to one day now.

i swear someone tried to pass this off on my on why we find rocks and such that are millions of years old, and the bible is not even close to going back to a number that high.

in the begining of the bible it does a little family lineage and the people are like 600 years old or some shit. i asked how that was possible because even in the 1890's the average life span was under 60 years. they told me that the system for measuring time was different back then.

what the fuck?

http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

[Doctor Manhattan]

Hey I loved that Movie

Someone loved "ghostbusters 3"?

<a href="http://members.cox.net/cousinken/itsabouttime.mp3"><img src="http://members.cox.net/nicksporsche/bushchen.jpg" border=0></a>

[Doctor Manhattan]

That's assuming that the speed of light is fixed in stone (it's not, in the past 300 years light speed has slowed down)

=

Evidence, please.

The speed of light depends on the material that the light moves through. Is that what you mean, LordJezo?

<a href="http://members.cox.net/cousinken/itsabouttime.mp3"><img src="http://members.cox.net/nicksporsche/bushchen.jpg" border=0></a>

This message was edited by SKW on 8-18-04 @ 1:23 PM

[JPMNICK]

Just to clarify, it does not depends on the material, it is affacted by the material. Light has a constant speed. Then, depending on what it is moving through it was be changed.

LordJezo was trying to say that the constant has changed through the years.

http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

This message was edited by JPMNICK on 8-18-04 @ 1:28 PM

[badorties]

How come dinosaurs or other animals that size are never mentioned in the bible?


there is that line "there were giants in the earth in those days" in genesis that is used to support dinosaurs in the bible ...




Then how the hell do you explain dinosaur fossils that are at least 65 million years old? And NO human "traces" coming even close to that?


the thing i've always heard that they were put there by god to test our faith ...

dinosaurs and the bible (http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml)


the following site (http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/behemoth.html) has this all pretty summed up:



In the book of "Job" chapter 38:4, God asks Job an important question:

"Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?"

No Scientist was there when the earth was formed or when life began. So any ideas they currently have are only educated guesses.

The only way to learn the truth about how and when life began is to read the testimony of the only one who was there, God himself.


is something scientfic a thing to believe in ...? can you believe in gravity or inertia ...?



<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=badorties"><br>

+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+

[DarkHippie]

Just to clarify, it does not depends on the material, it is affacted by the material. Light has a constant speed. Then, depending on what it is moving through it was be changed.
The theory that C is not a constant is dependant on the big bang theory. As the universe expands, it becomes less dense. If given that the speed of light changes depending on the material that it moves through (this has been proven in scientific trials), it is conceivable that C will change as the density of the universe changes.

(For my purposes, let's consider C to =the speed of light through matter)

<IMG SRC=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Canofsoup15/Sigs/HippieRat.jpg>
<marquee> Check out DarkHippie's latest story, "Keeper", at http://home.pcisys.net/~drmforge/dftoc2.htm </marquee>

[JPMNICK]

While this is true, c is measured in a vacuum. Meaning there is no external forces acting on it. thus giving us the maximum for c.

So using this numbers, we could calculate the furthest theoretically that the universe could have reached out.

The refractive index of the universe would slow it down, but it would have started at one time at the theoritical max.

the other poster was disputing the theoretical max as 500 billion times greater than it is now.

http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

[LordJezo]

If anyone can provide some facts that support this billions of years crap that the evolution extremists preach to everyone then I might change my mind. Until then I will stick with creation science.

Then how the hell do you explain dinosaur fossils that are at least 65 million years old? And NO human "traces" coming even close to that?

Then how the hell do you explain dinosaur footprints side by side human footprints deep within rocks, and how do you explain the lack of a detailed fossil record showing the evolution of the species? All we see are these huge jumps in what happened and not a constant change as we would expectl

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

[Furtherman]

there is that line "there were giants in the earth in those days" in genesis that is used to support dinosaurs in the bible ...


The "giants" term came from the original word, Nefilim. The original Hebrew text claimed that "The Nefilim were upon the earth." A translation error changed thaqt to giants, when actually Nefilim stood for "The people of The Shem", which translated to "Those who were cast down upon Earth".

If people and dinosaurs did exist at the same time, guess who would lasted longer.

Edit: "Then how the hell do you explain dinosaur footprints side by side human footprints deep within rocks"

I would LOVE to see that. Probably human prints spread far apart, maybe a few meters before they became lunch? HAHAHAHA.

"and how do you explain the lack of a detailed fossil record showing the evolution of the species? All we see are these huge jumps in what happened and not a constant change as we would expectl"

Do you even know what a fossil is and how one is formed? No, because anyone who did would not make such a naive statement.


<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

This message was edited by Furtherman on 8-18-04 @ 1:54 PM

[JPMNICK]

Damn Furtherman! Nice job. how the hell did you know that?

http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

[Furtherman]

Damn Furtherman! Nice job. how the hell did you know that?


I was raised Catholic and foolishly believed the Bible as the written word as a child. Then I hear that they are just "stories", and people all over the world believe in different gods. The more I educated myself, the more I learned. Especially all the inconsistencies and contradictions.

Anyway, I heard about this "giant" quote before.

Just to be fair to the believers, here is an explanation from a Bible Study site:

Who were the "giants" or nephilim mentioned in Genesis 6? (http://www.biblestudy.org/question/nephilms.html)

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

[JPMNICK]

what really turned me off from religion was Bio sophmore year and then AP European History senior year in highschool

Euro History showed how the catholic church horded money and used the people who believed. it made me think that religion is just based on some one's green to control masses.

Then I saw friends parents get sick and turn religious. this is how they explained why this was happening to them and how they were going to beat it. some did, some didn't. very sad, but people need a scapregoat and need to feel in control. if they feel like they are part of a master plan, they tend to go with the flow a lot easier.

http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

[Furtherman]

Euro History showed how the catholic church horded money and used the people who believed. it made me think that religion is just based on some one's green to control masses.


http://www.zeeuwsemuzikanten.nl/images/fotos/instrumenten/cowbell.jpg
Hit the winning cowbell.....!

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

[JPMNICK]

BTW, Green should have been greed, but i was rushing to type because believe it or not I am suposed to be working today

http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

[Furtherman]

It doesn't matter, because both green (money) and greed work in that statement.

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

[Doctor Manhattan]

Just to clarify, it does not depends on the material, it is affacted by the material. Light has a constant speed. Then, depending on what it is moving through it was be changed.

How did that clarify it? I don't understand the difference between

"The speed of light depends on the material that the light moves through"

"The speed of light is affacted by the material that the light moves through"

It's the speed that is depending on the material not Light itself.

Then you say "depending on what it is moving through" in your followup. How can something be constant and then be changed?

<a href="http://members.cox.net/cousinken/itsabouttime.mp3"><img src="http://members.cox.net/nicksporsche/bushchen.jpg" border=0></a>

This message was edited by SKW on 8-18-04 @ 2:22 PM

[LordJezo]

Do you even know what a fossil is and how one is formed? No, because anyone who did would not make such a naive statement.



Well why don't you explain it since you seem to know so much about the subject? While you are at it explain to me how the universe was created and where matter came from.

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

This message was edited by LordJezo on 8-18-04 @ 2:25 PM

[Furtherman]

Well why don't you explain it since you seem to know so much about the subject?


I would love to!

You see, you asked why there isn't a complete fossil record?

Well, that is because when 99.9% of everything that has ever lived or going to live on this earth dies, its bones decay. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. But, if bones are buried, maybe by a mudslide or the come to rest in a bog, and the conditions are right, a fossil can be formed.

That is when the sand or soft mud surrounding the bones hardens, and leaves an imprint of what was. That's what fossils are - imprints. This process takes millions of years.

So if every human ancestor laid to eternal rest under such conditions, we'd have a complete and easy record you could buy at the corner market. Perhaps we do, but sands shift, continents move and water rises. We probably won't ever find a complete record because of this.

Oh, and for how the universe was created? I'll place my bet on The Big Bang theory, but god only knows. :p

Creationism is a nice story and makes it all easy peasy - but it lacks facts.

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

[FUNKMAN]

god picked my body but he let me pick my nose...

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/monster6sixty6/guests/fm2_sig.jpg">

[JPMNICK]

sorry for the confusion, being at work and typing sometimes gets me messed up.

There is a speed of light, which we know of as 186,000 meters per second.

this is constant, and has been measured at this speed in a vacuum.

once this light is passed through something else, glass, water, the atmoshphere it can change speed.

the constant aspect of it is used for measurements in perfect conditions.

real world use we take into account the refractive index, which are the numbers we would use for light as it moved through certain materials.

In the vacuum of space, we can assume that it is moving at its max value.

there is no value higher than this, which is what LordJezo was trying to point out.


My first clarification was to point out that the speed of light is the constant, hence not depending on anything. It is only affected when it is moving through something else besides a vacuum.

Hope this helped.

http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

[LordJezo]

Oh, and for how the universe was created? I'll place my bet on The Big Bang theory, but god only knows. :p


So where did the stuff that caused the big bang come from?

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

[badorties]

proof of man & dinosaur ...

http://www.topthat.net/webrock/images/dinolick.jpg


cheap and silly, i admit ...


<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=badorties"><br>

+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+

[Furtherman]

So where did the stuff that caused the big bang come from?


To explain all that is a lengthy process, but I'll try the short version. We now have satellites and instruments that can see back to when the universe was young so astronomers have collected a lot of data on this. It wasn't "matter" that was there, but photons of light. When photons have enough energy, they can decay in matter and anti-matter. BOOM! Big Bang throws out matter and anti-matter. Matter got the upper hand. But anti-matter? An anti-Earth? That is a whole other discussion.

I know this from what I have read over the years, but this site helped me paraphrase:

Curious About Astronomy (http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=631)

It would just take too long to explain it more fully,
so check out this sight, where astronomers, who are much more qualified than me to explain it.




<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

[TheMojoPin]

Oh, and for how the universe was created? I'll place my bet on The Big Bang theory, but god only knows. :p


So where did the stuff that caused the big bang come from?

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

Hey, personally, The Big Bang, to me, is the big "God moment" in terms of him creating everything. From there, everything proceeded "scientifically," which is still pretty fucking miraculous, at least in my opinion.

Is God really that less impressive if he set the groundwork for our evolution by just setting the forces in motion that caused the Big Bang? I don't think so.

And wait, where the hell did this "dinosaur and human footprints side by side" theory come from?

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[LordJezo]

It wasn't "matter" that was there, but photons of light. When photons have enough energy, they can decay in matter and anti-matter. BOOM!

*sigh*

So where did all the energy and photons come from that formed the anti-matter? The link you provided failed to get into that.

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

[TheMojoPin]

What, you want him to just say, "from God?"

What does that prove in this thread? Plenty of people are saying God and science are not required to be seperate. God causing the Big Bang has zero to do with "proving" evolution. One does not prove or disprove the other.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[LordJezo]

He laughed at the creation reasoning so I see no reason to take his whole energy came out of nothing theory either.

All of this is based on faith. I have faith in religious things, he has faith in a science that has it's own holes. None of this will ever be proved and will always be a great debate.

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

[Furtherman]

Science is about discovery. Discoveries are made every day. One day we might know what was "before" or we'll see that it always "was".

Where did the light come from? No one really knows, but there are a bunch of theories out there, some very sound, based on measurable facts.

I've presented these facts to show you that your "billions of years crap" is flawed. It is not your fault, you may have been raised that way or came to that conclusion on your own - but you missed out on the facts. Fossils, speed of light, matter origins... these are all things that real.

I don't claim to know all the answers - but common sense dictates that all these things have been presented for billions of years.

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

[TheMojoPin]

LJ, You're implying one has "faith" or "believes in" science as you have faith and believe in God. That's your first and biggest mistake right there. The two mindsets are not the same, and can't be compared that way. And, AGAIN, they are not mutually exclusive. You don't need to reject one to accept the other.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Mike Teacher]

sheesh im gone for a while and the debate explodes. Well; a couple of things:

was evidence presented to back up the decay of the speed of light claim? i never got an answer to that. as for the humans next to dinos footprints, if you are referring to the pulasky footprints, I'll quote from a Christian website:

"The Paluxy River area is recognised for it's dinosaur tracks. However there is no serious acceptance of the human/dinosaur track claims even by other creationists."

=

Or, if you wish: Forget about all of this.

Let's assume Evolution is 100% dead wrong. Ditto with Big Bang, etc. Does someone have an alternate theory, and evidence for said theory? Not claims of evidence, not 'it's everywhere on the net' but real evidence of how the Universe and life and Humans formed.

You can have 'faith' in science for sure. But if Atomic Theory was wrong, these computers could not exist. And something can be both a Fact and a Theory. Flight is a fact, and the Theory of Flight is used to *attempt* to explain Flight. We know a lot, but we dont know a lot about flight too; hence, it's not the Law of Flight.

Law is usually used in things that would appear universal; ie. The Universal Law of Gravitation.

Blah blah blah mu nu mu zeta theta iota blah blah blah -Richard Feynman


<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/anisig3">

[LordJezo]

So why is it still called the theory of evolution?

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

[TheMojoPin]

Because it's not 100% proven, something which most people in this thread have gone out of their way to point out. What they've emphasized is that there is far more evidence pointing towards that theory than anything else.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[LordJezo]

Because it's not 100% proven, something which most people in this thread have gone out of their way to point out. What they've emphasized is that there is far more evidence pointing towards that theory than anything else.

That's because any evidence against that is from a creation based institue, which automatically means its junk science.

Creation science isn't 100% proven either and it can be argued as well that there is plenty of evidence for it as well.

Also, any debate I have ever seen or been to that pits an evolutionist against a creationist always ends in the evolutionist yelling and screaming as the creation scientist calmly debunks each and every theory the "real" scientest has.

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

[Doctor Manhattan]

sorry for the confusion, being at work and typing sometimes gets me messed up...Hope this helped.

I think so. Thanks!

<a href="http://members.cox.net/cousinken/itsabouttime.mp3"><img src="http://members.cox.net/nicksporsche/bushchen.jpg" border=0></a>

[TheMojoPin]

Also, any debate I have ever seen or been to that pits an evolutionist against a creationist always ends in the evolutionist yelling and screaming as the creation scientist calmly debunks each and every theory the "real" scientest has.

When?

Where?

And between whom?

To tell the truth, I wouldn't be surprised, since "creation scientists" can just "cheat" and refute anything the other scientists says simply because they don't "believe" in it. It would be insanely frustrating.

"Creation scientists" are automatically hindered in their research since they're always trying to "fit" things with the Bible, or God's plan. Contrary to that, most scientists are NOT atheists, have their own religious beliefs, yet see past that to try an establish a hopefully purely SCIENTIFIC conclusion, as opposed to one dictated by faith. You can find ways to link the two, but one is not going to completely debunk the other. Just as much as you shouldn't use the Bible/God to try and dictate science, you shouldn't use science to try and completely "explain" away God, because you'll quickly find both viewpoints to be impossible. We simply don't know enough about either.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Mike Teacher]

Yes I'd like to see where that occurs also.
As to Creation Science, it's simple; submit it to Peer-Review. In peer-review, the evidence is essentially presented to other scientists whose job is to blast away at the evidence, the testing, how the data was collected, sources of error, etc. You have to defend your work across a number of disciplines.

As to why it is called the Theory of Evolution, like Flight, and atomic Theory, it is not completely understood. Our incomplete theories on flight and atoms do not hinder scientists from using them to make very real things, like planes and these computers that use Quantum Theory in their design. Again, a theory.

And again; if anyone has an alternate theory for how life got to how it got to be; go for it, the Nobels await the researchers who provide the evidence sufficient to garner the prize.

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/anisig3">

[ADF]

Science doesn't claim to have all the answers. The extent of our knowledge and the ability to make measurements are limited to our equipment, be it mental or otherwise. As our ability to understand the universe expands, so does our abilty to explain the various phenomena we encounter. Creation "science," however, attempts to fit the knowledge we obtain into a preconceived notion of how the universe works. It is the acme of hubris to assume that a book written by a bunch of relative cavemen contains the "truth" because that's the book that happened to be read to you when you were a child or grabbed your interest when you were at a crisis in your life. Science uses the word "theory" because it is our current best explanation of a how a particular element of the universe works. It's possible that creation theory could one day supercede evolution theory, but I'm betting it won't.

<center><a href="http://somesuch.org" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.somesuch.org/sigpics/heroine.gif"></a><i><br><br><b>Roses are red... Violets are blue... All of my base... Are belong to you.</i></b></center>

[Furtherman]

Also, any debate I have ever seen or been to that pits an evolutionist against a creationist always ends in the evolutionist yelling and screaming as the creation scientist calmly debunks each and every theory the "real" scientest has.


That's rich. I too, would love to see where this has happened. Surely not in this discussion, whereas I have not yelled or screamed. I haven't seen a calm debunk either.

Or are we still believing that Grog took his pet Microcertops for a walk one day by the river?

If anything, I would hope anyone reading this to research the possibility of that happening.

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJonText

This message was edited by Furtherman on 8-19-04 @ 11:32 AM

[Furtherman]

Creationists meet the Grand Canyon (http://www.time.com/time/columnist/jaroff/article/0,9565,783829,00.html)



At a park called Dinosaur Adventure Land, run by creationists near Pensacola, Florida, visitors are informed that man coexisted with dinosaurs. This fantasy accommodates the creationists' view that the Earth is only 6,000 years old and that Darwin's theory of evolution is false. Among the park exhibits is one that illustrates another creationist article of faith. It consists of a long trough filled with sand and fitted at one end with a water spigot. Above the trough is a sign reading "That River Didn't Make That Canyon." When visitors open the spigot, the water quickly cuts a gully through the sand, supposedly demonstrating how the Grand Canyon was created, practically overnight, by Noah's flood. That's nonsense, of course, but what else would you expect at a creationist park? Certainly, one might think, this couldn't be acceptable at, say, a National Park, right? Think again.


Oh yes, even at The Grand Canyon, there is a book you can by called the "Grand Canyon, a Different View". Which says the Canyon was created 4,500 year ago. According to the biblical time scale.

Why is this geoligically impossible LIE allowed to be sold?

Well it seems that:

the Bush Administration has already decided it will stand by its approval for the book and that hundreds more have been ordered.


Red state update.

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

[kevcala]

mr wizard did the best show one time. hehad a fish tank and he poured this powder on the top. he then stuck his hand in there, and when he pulled it out it was not wet! it was amazing to see. anyone know with this magic dust is?


Sorry for the quick derail, but this was asked a while back and I just read it now.

Lycopodium Powder.

I swear I remembered this, and confirmed it with google. At first I was thinking Lyocane, but I was confusing the powder in question with another one that is odorless, tasteless, dissolves instantly in liquid, and is among the more deadlier poisons known to man (and spelled wrong)


<IMG SRC="http://home.hvc.rr.com/kevcala/kevcala_sig2.gif" ALIGN="left" WIDTH="301" ALT="Crud">

<MARQUEE>"I'll sit back bundled up, I'll sit back here and wait. I remember the past as wonderful though the pictures aren't that great." -atom and his package</MARQUEE>


Big Ass #22981

[Crippler]

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/70520110.jpg
(yeah, it's been done before, but what the hell it still makes me laugh)

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/71172486.jpg[color=white]

[Furtherman]

Ok... well, let's get back on track.



The creationists have demonstrated again that they are scientifically illiterate, and out of step with the 21st century.


Take THAT jesusfish!!

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

[Meatball]

I used to believe in Evolution, until i saw this


click here (http://www.skoopy.com/show2.php?id=829&type=VID)

now i believe in God.

<IMG SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v380/meatball613/25grea13.jpg">
"Thats a spicy meatball"

[mothershucker]

I thought this was about Brother joe's band Evolution doing Don't stop believing.

My bad......

I shucked it, and I shucked it, and I shucked it, i'm quite the mother shucker

[The Jays]

While you are at it explain to me how the universe was created and where matter came from.

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

This message was edited by LordJezo on 8-18-04 @ 2:25 PM

In the beginning, there was nothing, at least, nothing on our dimension. The brane that our universe would come to exist on moves close to another brane, and at one point, they touch, and BOOM! all the energy from that expands along the brane, creating all the energy of the universe.
Seconds afterward, vibrating bands of energy create the subatomic particles, photons, gravitrons, hydrogen atoms are formed, and proceed to fuse into helium within stars, as the universe cools, complex compounds form, universe continues to expand, and large masses of matter warp space time and form systems and galaxies.

Billions of years later, a planet is revolving around a star, and this planet has water, carbon, hydrogen, methane, nitrogen in the air. Electrical charges of lightning strike in the atmosphere, and these charges change atmospheric gases into simple amino acids, and drop down onto the planet surface. This brown goup that is formed is either diluted in the large oceans, or dries out or freezes on the solid matter which is the land, but some collects in small watery ponds. At some point, the first proteins form, and then, the first cells. These cells are crude, but they are able to replicate, move, obtain energy, etc.

The thing about evolution, is that it takes such a long time to occur, and it's very hard to try to contemplate that amount of time. Your entire life boils down to a strand of DNA, that is yours and yours alone, and it carries everything that makes you you. There are phyisological traits that you might not even be aware of, small changes in comparsion to the entire species of man, which have come from trial and error, over a long period of time, and these small experimentations, on an evolutionary level, are what make evolution happen. DNA holds the design for your body, and once you are alive, you are let loose onto a environmental niche, and if you can survive in that niche for long enough, YAY, you get to move on.

[center]<font color="blue" face="Trebuchet MS" size=-2> Fuck what you heard.</font>

[shocked60]

I think every idiot (and I'm counting myself) has the right to believe in what they feel is right, it's when we have this overwhelming desire to force others to believe what we believe that things get all screwy...

http://64.177.177.182/katylina/shocked60.jpg
Anybody got a biscuit???

(Thanks to Katylina for help with my sig)

[whiteboy1457]

if there were a god he would never let people live their lives with diseases like diabetes. It just doesn't make sense.

aparently we got the diseases b/c eve ate the apple... but i believe in evolution

MASTA MEAT

[MrPink]

i believe in creation. people say theres no proof of that and i agree, it takes faith, but there is no proof of evolution either. any scientist will tell you evolution is a theory. and the thing about God letting diseases and the like happen to us is because adam and eve sinned, and the consequences of sin is death. God gave us a free will and will not change that which is why we have war and fighting over the "right" religion.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/Catholiccannon/pink.jpg
Thanks to Curtoid!

[TheMojoPin]

but there is no proof of evolution either.

That's completely false.

Yes, evolution as a WHOLE is still officially a theory, but there's a whole helluva lot of evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, that point to it as being a very, very, VERY likely conclusion.

And the Earth is definitely more than 5,000 years old. That's a given.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[silera]

i believe in creation. people say theres no proof of that and i agree, it takes faith, but there is no proof of evolution either. any scientist will tell you evolution is a theory. and the thing about God letting diseases and the like happen to us is because adam and eve sinned, and the consequences of sin is death. God gave us a free will and will not change that which is why we have war and fighting over the "right" religion.


If accepting science shakes your faith, then you should question your faith and not science.

The bible doesn't cover electricity, travel in space, computers, or cell phones. We've grown far beyond the conglomeration of fables, history, rewrites, translations, and supposition that makes up the bible. That is not to say that the overall message of the bible isn't worthy, just that the details at this point are fuzzy at best.

Maybe, when dealing with a compilation of stories that have passed through 1000's of revisions, languages, politics, monarchies, and self serving interpretations, we have to accept that the bible is not infallible.

Instead of defending that which we believe by denying it's errors, we should find the universality of it and celebrate it.

I still think though, that all child custody cases should be decided by the Law of Solomon.


<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[Yerdaddy]

Here's a question: should people who believe the Grand Canyon is only 4500 years old get handicapped parking priviledges? Or should they just all get medals because they're all special?

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[DJEvelEd]

I believe both.

We are genetically programmed beings. We were programmed trillions of years ago by God and God also intercedes in our lives with "coincidences" and by transcending the quarks, superstrings, and frequencies to create a "vibe" that we personalize as a "soul". There is a Big Ass multidimentional qrid that God created (very computerishly) that accounts for every possibility in time & space so God's always one step ahead (at least).

We exist now - we exist a second ago - we exist a second ahead with infinite time in between.
We exist here - we exist there with infinite space in between.

I'm actually the President in one life and a gangster rapper in another. In yet another, I'm BOTH!

...and Kat? You were banged by King Henry and you will bang him again. Next time though, venture across his Taint and do his bidding so he won't behead you. (hold your nose)

<img src="http://64.177.177.182/katylina/originoffeces.jpg">
PUTTING THE FUNNY IN PRESENTLY SEEN DEPTHS
HAS ANYONE SEEN MY BIG WET GAPING ’NUS FILLED WITH DIARRH’?
SPONSORED BY: "THE F’CESTOF C’SAR" BY ’SOP c464 B.C.

[torker]

Then how the hell do you explain dinosaur fossils that are at least 65 million years old?


Marshall, Will, and Holly, on a routine expedition, met the greatest earthquake ever known. High on the rapids, it tossed their tiny raft, and tossed them down a thousand feet below, to the land of the lost


<IMG SRC=http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/41855e91zfa5977f1/torker131313/__sr_/d17a.jpg?pfa2roBBli4UkfaD>

[A.J.]

We've grown far beyond the conglomeration of fables, history, rewrites, translations, and supposition that makes up the bible. That is not to say that the overall message of the bible isn't worthy, just that the details at this point are fuzzy at best.


Amen.

<img src=http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Canofsoup15/Sigs/AJinDC-Sig.jpg>

A Skidmark/canofsoup15 production.

Red Sox Nation

[Furtherman]

Maybe, when dealing with a compilation of stories that have passed through 1000's of revisions, languages, politics, monarchies, and self serving interpretations, we have to accept that the bible is not infallible.


Brilliantly said. If only people would open their eyes and realize this common sense.

What written document passes through numerous human hands and remains unchanged?

That's why there are editors. And it is usually edited for their (or their company's) benefit.

Everyone take out their resumes.

How truthful is yours? 100%?

The bible isn't worth the paper it is mass produced on.

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

[Yerdaddy]

<a href="http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2004/US/724_public_view_of_creationism_and_11_19_2004.asp" target="_blank">Results of Gallup poll on evolution</a>

To assess public opinion on the evidence for evolution, Gallup asked, "Do you think that Charles Darwin's theory of evolution is a scientific theory that has been well-supported by evidence, just one of many theories and one that has not been well-supported by evidence, or don't you know enough about it to say?" Polled in November 2004, 35% of the respondents said that evolution is well-supported by evidence, 35% said that it is not, 29% said that they didn't know enough about it to reply, and 1% expressed no opinion. These results are similar to those in 2001, the first year in which Gallup asked the question.

Demographically, the article reports, belief that evolution is well-supported by the evidence is strongest "among those with the most education, liberals, those living in the West, those who seldom attend church, and ... Catholics," and weakest among "those with the least education, older Americans ..., frequent church attendees, conservatives, Protestants, those living in the middle of the country, and Republicans."

To assess public opinion on creationism, Gallup asked:

Which of the following statements comes closest to your views on the origin and development of human beings?
1) Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process,
2) Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God had no part in this process,
3) God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so?
Polled in November 2004, 38% of respondents chose (1), 13% chose (2), 45% chose (3), and 4% offered a different or no opinion. These results are also similar to those from previous Gallup polls, which extend back to 1982.

We stink!

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[Furtherman]

The History Channel presents This Day in History:
1859: Charles Darwin publishes his On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, a groundbreaking scientific work that argues organisms gradually evolve through a process Darwin called "natural selection." Darwin's advance was less the theory of evolution itself, which predated his work, than his explanation of its process. According to the Origin of Species, certain traits occurring through natural variations within species give some individual organisms an advantage over others. Over time, these traits become more widely distributed. Darwin collected evidence and conducted research for his volume aboard the ship HMS Beagle, which visited the remote Galapagos Islands among many other places. Although Darwin's theory is accepted by scientists around the globe, it remains controversial in certain parts of the United States.


Yep. There are certain parts of the United States that stink.

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

[SatCam]

The theory of evolution, in my opinion, is hundreds of times more provable than say the existance of Jesus or Moses. Those people are just fictional characters in order to get across the ideas of religion. As is God, but as of now, no one can "prove" God exists, however parts of the evolution theory can be proven, as stated above.

There's my two cents, take it, leave it or put it in that handy "take a penny, leave a penny" thing.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/SatCam/sig91_thanksgiving_pilgrims.jpg" align="right" alt="Happy fuckin' turkey day!" /><a href="http://www.satelitecam.tk">Ron and Fez Drops and Bits</a>
50%[color=white]

[Furtherman]

<p><span class="primeColor"><a href="http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20060515/mammalfeet_arc.html" target="_blank">Fetus' Feet Show Fish, Reptile Vestiges</a></span></p><p><span class="primeColor">We've all had fish feet!</span></p><p></p><p><span class="primeColor">&quot;The finding supports the theory that mammalian feet evolved from ancient mammal-like reptiles that, in turn, evolved from fish.&quot;</span></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Furtherman on 5-19-06 @ 1:25 PM</span>

[furie]

<strong>LiquidCourage</strong> wrote:<br>
His answer:
The Earth was created 2000 years ago in a week, tada!


<p></p>

6000 years ago; read the book!

[LordJezo]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>kevcala</strong> wrote:<br />mr wizard did the best show one time. hehad a fish tank and he poured this powder on the top. he then stuck his hand in there, and when he pulled it out it was not wet! it was amazing to see. anyone know with this magic dust is?


Sorry for the quick derail, but this was asked a while back and I just read it now.

Lycopodium Powder.

I swear I remembered this, and confirmed it with google. At first I was thinking Lyocane, but I was confusing the powder in question with another one that is odorless, tasteless, dissolves instantly in liquid, and is among the more deadlier poisons known to man (and spelled wrong)&nbsp;

&quot;I'll sit back bundled up, I'll sit back here and wait. I remember the past as wonderful though the pictures aren't that great.&quot; -atom and his package


Big Ass #22981<p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Holy crap you are amazing.</p><p>That is one of the few episodes of Mr. Wizard that I remember from being a kid and I have been wondering what he used for a decade and a half now, or however long it's been.</p><p>What a wonderful thing you posted.&nbsp;</p>

[SinA]

<p>heck yeah,&nbsp; mr. wizard is don herbert</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>or he was, at least</p>

[Patches]

<p><img height="203" src="http://www.spawn.com/entertainment/pearljamvideo/images/pearljam_video_photo_01_lg.jpg" width="360" border="0" /></p><p>IT'S EVOLUTION BABY!</p>

[Furtherman]

<p><a href="http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=911332006" target="_blank">THE world's leading scientists have issued a damning statement against the teaching of creationism in schools, arguing that denying the facts of evolution damages the development of children.</a> </p><h4><font size="3"><a href="http://www.sitcomsonline.com/thefactsoflife.html" target="_blank">Facts of life</a></font></h4><p>THE following is the joint statement concerning evolution from the Inter-Academy Panel on International Issues (IAP): </p><p>&quot;We agree [on] the following evidence-based facts about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet: </p><p>&bull; In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago. </p><p>&bull; Since its formation, the Earth - its geology and its environments - has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so. </p><p>&bull; Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends. </p><p>&bull; Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.&quot;</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Furtherman on 6-23-06 @ 1:25 PM</span>

[Furtherman]

Creationists meet the Grand Canyon (http://www.time.com/time/columnist/jaroff/article/0,9565,783829,00.html)

At a park called Dinosaur Adventure Land, run by creationists near Pensacola, Florida, visitors are informed that man coexisted with dinosaurs. This fantasy accommodates the creationists' view that the Earth is only 6,000 years old and that Darwin's theory of evolution is false. Among the park exhibits is one that illustrates another creationist article of faith. It consists of a long trough filled with sand and fitted at one end with a water spigot. Above the trough is a sign reading "That River Didn't Make That Canyon." When visitors open the spigot, the water quickly cuts a gully through the sand, supposedly demonstrating how the Grand Canyon was created, practically overnight, by Noah's flood. That's nonsense, of course, but what else would you expect at a creationist park? Certainly, one might think, this couldn't be acceptable at, say, a National Park, right? Think again.



Judge clears way for dinosaur park to be seized (http://www.pnj.com/article/20090801/NEWS01/908010317)

A federal judge has cleared the way for the government's seizure of a creationism theme park in Pensacola owned by a couple convicted of tax fraud.

A ruling by U.S. District Judge Casey Rodgers states that the nine properties that make up Dinosaur Adventure Land as well as two bank accounts associated with the park will be used to satisfy $430,400 owed to the federal government

Kent Hovind, who founded the park and a ministry, Creation Science Evangelism, is serving 10 years in federal prison for failing to pay the Internal Revenue Service more than $470,000 in employee taxes.

He was found guilty in November 2006 on 58 counts, including failure to pay employee taxes and making threats against investigators.

The conviction culminated 17 years of Hovind sparring with the IRS. Saying he was employed by God and his ministers were not subject to payroll taxes, he claimed no income or property.

This makes me happy.

[Devo37]

Judge clears way for dinosaur park to be seized (http://www.pnj.com/article/20090801/NEWS01/908010317)



and to think, the $470,000 in taxes they failed to pay evolved from a single penny...

[keithy_19]

To me, evolution is pretty fucking miraculous, so I just don't "get" why some or so determined that it doesn't fit into "God's plan."

This is such a brilliant post I felt it needed to be shown again.

To me, God and evolution can go hand in hand. I don't look at God like religion does. Religion is man made, which means it is inheriantly faulted. The Bible has been misconstrued so much. It's a personal relationship with God that matters. The body is the temple. Not some building on a street corner.

But hey, if you don't believe in God, cool. Whatever. It doesn't change my opinion of someone.

[keithy_19]

and to think, the $470,000 in taxes they failed to pay evolved from a single penny...



Ha.

Fuck them.

[Slumbag]

Why doesn't everyone just kick back, and let Jesusophile from Youtube explain why evolution is all bullshit.
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dmHZExLMOP0&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dmHZExLMOP0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>


He's fucking infuriating, but I think it's a gimmick he's doing.

[tanless1]

damn old threads, 2004......aaarrrgh

[tanless1]

how long is a day in the life of an infinite being again ? i forget.

[keithy_19]

how long is a day in the life of an infinite being again ? i forget.

I think, that while this is a silly post, it does pose a big question. How long is a day for 'God'? As humans when we read Genesis we see that God created the earth in 7 days. But what does that really mean? Is a day, 24 hours? Or since space expands is it actually much much longer?

[razorboy]

I love all of you filthy ape-children.

[tanless1]

... even further as we associate the day w/ solar time.

[landarch]

Why doesn't everyone just kick back, and let Jesusophile from Youtube explain why evolution is all bullshit.
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dmHZExLMOP0&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dmHZExLMOP0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>


He's fucking infuriating, but I think it's a gimmick he's doing.


I got 29 seconds in before I had to stop and move on. What the hell is a "theowy"?

[booster11373]

I think, that while this is a silly post, it does pose a big question. How long is a day for 'God'? As humans when we read Genesis we see that God created the earth in 7 days. But what does that really mean? Is a day, 24 hours? Or since space expands is it actually much much longer?

To the people who actually wrote the old testament a day was 24 hours more or less bases on the earths rotation on a side note a Jewish day is supposed to start at night so I wonder how that effects the whole thing was this "god" a night owl? like to sleep late?

[Furtherman]

I think, that while this is a silly post, it does pose a big question. How long is a day for 'God'? As humans when we read Genesis we see that God created the earth in 7 days. But what does that really mean? Is a day, 24 hours? Or since space expands is it actually much much longer?

This type of thinking is another reason why people believe in a god. First, they're taught as children so the notion is latched onto their learning as they grow. Now, you're assuming that a god experiences what we has humans do - a "day", time and motion. These are things that would not pertain to any kind of deity. Even thinking a god is of the same shape as man is also illogical. This is one of many reasons why the whole notion is illogical.

[Furtherman]

To the people who actually wrote the old testament a day was 24 hours more or less bases on the earths rotation on a side note a Jewish day is supposed to start at night so I wonder how that effects the whole thing was this "god" a night owl? like to sleep late?

Every day for everyone starts at night - midnight, 12 A.M.

[booster11373]

Every day for everyone starts at night - midnight, 12 A.M.

the Jewish day start at sundown has always been my understanding

[tanless1]

if god created the heavns and earth on the first day, he wld not be relgated to a 24hr solar time cycle as the sun wld be consderd heavens. this whole creation thing takes time- not an easy gig.

[sailor]

This makes me happy.

why? if the owner of a baseball team went to jail for tax evasion, would that be a condemnation of the sport of baseball?

[underdog]

if god created the heavns and earth on the first day, he wld not be relgated to a 24hr solar time cycle as the sun wld be consderd heavens. this whole creation thing takes time- not an easy gig.

Exactly.

[A.J.]

This type of thinking is another reason why people believe in a god. First, they're taught as children so the notion is latched onto their learning as they grow. Now, you're assuming that a god experiences what we has humans do - a "day", time and motion. These are things that would not pertain to any kind of deity. Even thinking a god is of the same shape as man is also illogical. This is one of many reasons why the whole notion is illogical.

http://www.theliberaloc.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/spock_fascinating.jpg

[lleeder]

I never believed in them. It was like Four Horsemen for fags.

[Furtherman]

why? if the owner of a baseball team went to jail for tax evasion, would that be a condemnation of the sport of baseball?

No, it would just be another crook who rips people off getting his due.

That makes me happy.

[TripleSkeet]

The thing I dont understand about creationists (and my mom is a hardcore one) is why they have to take everything stated in the bible literally. It says God made the heaven and the Earth and all the life on it in 7 days. But it doesnt say a day is 24 hours. Why cant a day be 25 hours? Or 2 weeks? Or 10 million years?? Why does an all powerful being like God have to follow the measurements of time that we as humans created?

I personally believe in God and I believe he created everything out there. I just happen to believe he created life through evolution. I dont see why it has to be one or the other.

As far as "If there was a God there wouldnt be disease", sometimes you need to realize that maybe the misfortunes of others are put out there to show the love, compassion and inspiration capable of mankind. Not to mention to help others be truly thankful for what blessings they may have. Its not always fair to those indivuals but nobody ever said life was fair. Take Adam Walsh for example. His kidnapping and brutal murder helped inspire an entire country to band together to capture and prevent other attackers. His death has saved the lives of thousands. Sometimes you just have to look at things from a different perspective.

[The Jays]

People who believe the Bible as the historical fact are probably the dumbest people on the planet.

I enjoy the "Why do people laugh at creationists?" series on YouTube.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BS5vid4GkEY&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BS5vid4GkEY&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[tanless1]

there's no need for name calling or condescension in this conversation.
allthough i do believe those 7 days where very very loooonnng days. i also believe predominatly in creationism. i will however attribute small changes to an evelutionary trend.
a duck needed web feet to swim better, so it developed web feet. this implys that cognative thought was in play for each species ..... i dont buy it.
the same could be said for natural camoflouge.

[Furtherman]

If it walks like a duck...

[razorboy]

If it walks like a duck...

God had a sense of humor.

[underdog]

there's no need for name calling or condescension in this conversation.
allthough i do believe those 7 days where very very loooonnng days. i also believe predominatly in creationism. i will however attribute small changes to an evelutionary trend.
a duck needed web feet to swim better, so it developed web feet. this implys that cognative thought was in play for each species ..... i dont buy it.
the same could be said for natural camoflouge.

Exactly.

[The Jays]

People who willingly reject science are both dangerous and ignorant.

[Stuft]

The thing I dont understand about creationists (and my mom is a hardcore one) is why they have to take everything stated in the bible literally. It says God made the heaven and the Earth and all the life on it in 7 days. But it doesnt say a day is 24 hours. Why cant a day be 25 hours? Or 2 weeks? Or 10 million years?? Why does an all powerful being like God have to follow the measurements of time that we as humans created?



He doesn't. As a civilization, we've put our time table on what's been passed down. Rest assured, it didn't take God 6 days to create life as we know it, w/ the 7th day resting.

[tanless1]

your ego tells you science answers everthing, it doesnt. not now w/ our limited inteligence.
look at how much of our brains we do not use as a species. is that an allergic reaction to meat ?. those that believe science answers all and that evelution is the only way, that there is no catylist but chance behind a big bang..... those are the ones that are dangerous.
to be liberal implies openmindedness- and yet those that hearld themselvs as such tend to be the most narrow.
not all decision must be permanent, nor immediate.

[booster11373]

your ego tells you science answers everthing, it doesnt. not now w/ our limited inteligence.
look at how much of our brains we do not use as a species. is that an allergic reaction to meat ?. those that believe science answers all and that evelution is the only way, that there is no catylist but chance behind a big bang..... those are the ones that are dangerous.
to be liberal implies openmindedness- and yet those that hearld themselvs as such tend to be the most narrow.
not all decision must be permanent, nor immediate.

That's my favorite new apologetic excuse, people who ask for evidence and proof are narrow minded and those who believe in stone age era explanations for the way the world came into existence are the open minded ones

[tanless1]

science has not been rejected, nor shall it be worshiped.
look at global warming- in the 70's we were going to soot the poles so we wouldnt slip into an ice age.
this decade we used bad data to cury fear that the earth is going to melt- science being used dishonestly to garner control and profit.
... and all this time the sun has been ignored- cant be that the sun is hot. cant be a cycle. if only we could guilt the masses in to rescending thier power in time to ride the downward cooling trend- we could take credit for it and "rule" the world.
.... as i said, i would not deny an evolutionary trend in species- i do not however believe we grew feet because we steped out of the ooze.
..... i am shocked at the way insults are thrown around. ignorant, stupid, stone age, apologetic even.

[Gvac]

The theory of evolution is full of holes.

Swear it's the gospel truth and you risk looking as foolish as those who deny it.

[booster11373]

science has not been rejected, nor shall it be worshiped.
look at global warming- in the 70's we were going to soot the poles so we wouldnt slip into an ice age.
this decade we used bad data to cury fear that the earth is going to melt- science being used dishonestly to garner control and profit.
... and all this time the sun has been ignored- cant be that the sun is hot. cant be a cycle. if only we could guilt the masses in to rescending thier power in time to ride the downward cooling trend- we could take credit for it and "rule" the world.
.... as i said, i would not deny an evolutionary trend in species- i do not however believe we grew feet because we steped out of the ooze.
..... i am shocked at the way insults are thrown around. ignorant, stupid, stone age, apologetic even.

Sorry the old testament was a product of the bronze age? but you make my point, all those ideas where based n the understanding at the time, some have proven to be good ideas other have discarded but we kept looking for answers and facts we did not just accept the what some bronze age people wrote down 5000 years ago.

[booster11373]

The theory of evolution is full of holes.

Swear it's the gospel truth and you risk looking as foolish as those who deny it.

The bible is full of contradictory information, so what?

[Gvac]

The bible is full of contradictory information, so what?

Exactly.

[booster11373]

Exactly.

One does not equal the other

[hanso]

Are such jerkoffs it's unbelievable. I was arguing with this guy about it. Basically, he attacked the argument of evolution over some crap about how the eye is so complex it couldn't have possibly formed like that on it own or something. It was such a weak argument it made me want to laugh, or vomit.

His answer:
The Earth was created 2000 years ago in a week, tada!

Open the door, get on the floor, everybody walk the dinosaur ...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/733O0xJDx8o&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/733O0xJDx8o&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[TheMojoPin]

Exactly.

You gotta be shittin' me.

And you do realize that it's never going to graduate from "theory," right? That's how scientific theories work, hence the "theory of gravity," "the theory of relativity" and so on. Science leaves itself open to new ideas and new evidence even if a theory is all but 100% proven. It's ridiculous to act like the use of term "theory" means that it's all scattershot and halfassed and it's on the same level as the idea of intelligent design or creationism.

[tanless1]

i dont recall saying the earth is 5000 years i old. i recall offering lots of room for time.

[tanless1]

i also dont recall saying you should stop looking. i dont believe you will find the answers that your looking for. i to am looking forward to caukoo's findings. its all terribly exciting.

[Devo37]

a duck needed web feet to swim better, so it developed web feet. this implys that cognative thought was in play for each species ..... i dont buy it.
the same could be said for natural camoflouge.

you're looking at it the wrong way. ducks didn't evolve webbed feet because they wanted to. it just so happened that having webbed feet provided a survival advantage (better swimming ability -- a major advantage in catching prey and avoiding predators). over thousands and thousands of years, the proto-ducks that survived and reproduced most successfully were the ones that had the genetic mutation to produce webbed feet. proto-ducks without the web foot gene died off over time, because they were out-competed by their webbed counterparts, and their genes were eliminated from the pool.

similarly, giraffes didn't evolve long necks because they wanted to. it just so happened that the proto-giraffes that survived and reproduced most successfully had longer necks than the rest, because this provided a survival advantage (they could reach food that their counterparts couldn't -- a major advantage if traditional food sources become scarce).

[underdog]

your ego tells you science answers everthing, it doesnt. not now w/ our limited inteligence.
look at how much of our brains we do not use as a species. is that an allergic reaction to meat ?. those that believe science answers all and that evelution is the only way, that there is no catylist but chance behind a big bang..... those are the ones that are dangerous.
to be liberal implies openmindedness- and yet those that hearld themselvs as such tend to be the most narrow.
not all decision must be permanent, nor immediate.

science has not been rejected, nor shall it be worshiped.
look at global warming- in the 70's we were going to soot the poles so we wouldnt slip into an ice age.
this decade we used bad data to cury fear that the earth is going to melt- science being used dishonestly to garner control and profit.
... and all this time the sun has been ignored- cant be that the sun is hot. cant be a cycle. if only we could guilt the masses in to rescending thier power in time to ride the downward cooling trend- we could take credit for it and "rule" the world.
.... as i said, i would not deny an evolutionary trend in species- i do not however believe we grew feet because we steped out of the ooze.
..... i am shocked at the way insults are thrown around. ignorant, stupid, stone age, apologetic even.

I'd normally type exactly here, but it seems people have taken that from me. So I need to figure something else out.