Law school insanity

[Johnny Fontane]

Over the years I have worked with a number of people who went off to law school. Some of these people were extremely bright, and you just knew that they would go on to have successful careers.

But with some others, I just can't figure it out. I ask myself "how did this dullard get into law school? There is no way his person will EVER be a lawyer."

So the question is this: for those of you in law school (or know somebody in law school), what's your impression? Do most kids make it, or is it just a waste of time and money?

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"The principal benefit acting has afforded me is the money to pay for my psychoanalysis."

[Arienette]

hmm, there's a lot going on in this post. as a current law student (heading into my last year, yay!), i'll answer what i can

i always used to think that lawyers must be really smart by default. you don't need to be a super genius to be a lawyer. like many other things, while it takes some intelligence, the most important part is putting in a lot of hard work and preparing.

there are very few people at my school who i think won't be able to make it as a lawyer. some will be better than others, but most will make it. basically all you need to do is pass the bar (i don't mean to diminish it, it's a ton of work), and you're a lawyer. there are all different kinds of lawyers and all sorts of levels of complexity in the work that they do. it gives most lawyers the opportunity to practice if that's what they want.

because of the crappy job market right now, the law school classes are improving a lot. there are more higher qualified people than ever going to law school.

it's not a waste of time and money, as much as i hate it. you learn a ton and you develop a lot of useful skills (as much as i hate it ). and, although i'll be bitching about the job market until i know where i'm heading after graduation, i think there will be a place out there for the competent new lawyers.

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[sr71blackbird]

Q Whats the difference between a lawyer and a catfish?












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This message was edited by sr71blackbird on 8-11-04 @ 10:38 PM

[JustJon]

Q Whats the difference between a lawyer and a catfish?
One's a scum sucking bottom dweller, the other's a fish.

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[furie]

Q: What is a criminal lawyer?

A: Redundant.


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[Reephdweller]

Q: What's the difference between a lawyer and a bucket of pond scum?

A: The bucket.


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[Hottub]

How many lawyer jokes are there?


2. All the rest are true!
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This message was edited by Hottub on 8-12-04 @ 8:48 AM

[TheGameHHH]

im literally sitting through law school orientation as I type this. I feel like everyone is smarter than me and i'm ready to accept the fact that my next 3 years are going to be hell.

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[JPMNICK]

How many lawyer jokes are there?


I am not sure, but i think we are about to find out.

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This message was edited by JPMNICK on 8-12-04 @ 8:58 AM

[WNEWstinks]

How many yaers of college does a standard kid go through before becoming a lawer,,,6 or 8???

[Arienette]

this is terribly novel. lawyer jokes. excellent.

some lawyers are scum, but some of them are good people. i wonder how you guys would react if you needed help from a lawyer...

<center><img src="http://somesuch.org/sigpics/aricheat.gif" height=100 width=300</img><br>in my secret drawer, in my pockets deep<br>you will find the reasons that i can't sleep<br>and you will still want me</center>

[Johnny Fontane]

I'm glad I didn't go to law school...too much competition. I've been working in the legal arena for over 15 years, and I never had much of a desire to attend any hearings. They generally bore my ass. I knew in my heart that I would never excel at something that didn't really interest me. Also, once you've been out of school for awhile and have a few bucks in your pocket, it's hard to deal with professors - my philosophy is if you are going to torture me and stress me out, PAY ME! I work with someone who is a lawyer (and admitted to the NY bar) and I'm making $15,000 more than her. She has a chip on her shoulder, but the reality is she has this annoying accent and personality which has obviously impeded her career.

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"The principal benefit acting has afforded me is the money to pay for my psychoanalysis."

[reeshy]

I have a brother and sister who are both lawyers now.....They said they minded their own business, did their course work and stayed away from the assholes...My sister passed her bar on the first try a nd my brother is still awaiting his results...But he'll pass...he minds his own business!!!!

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[WNEWstinks]

How many years of college to become a lawer??

[reeshy]

Depends...Lincoln did it in 2 years!!!! Thank God for correspondence courses!!!!

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[Arienette]

I'm glad I didn't go to law schooleh, you sound kinda bitter to me.

and wnew, if you're really asking, there's 4 years of college and then 3 years of law school.

<center><img src="http://somesuch.org/sigpics/aricheat.gif" height=100 width=300</img><br>in my secret drawer, in my pockets deep<br>you will find the reasons that i can't sleep<br>and you will still want me</center>

[Zipgun]

I should have gone to law school. I can nitpick the ever loving fuck out of anything.


But I'm stupid.


So...

I didn't.

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This message was edited by skidmark on 8-12-04 @ 11:03 PM

[Lumber]

How many yaers of college does a standard kid go through before becoming a lawer,,,6 or 8???

In your case 14 yrs...

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[EQ]

[quote] as a current law student (heading into my last year, yay!), i'll answer what i can

quote]

*********************


Hey Randi, you are starting your LAST year?
Already? Good for you! ( feels like you had JUST started. The time has gone by so fast- For Me. The last time we spent hours goofing around, and then we both had to actually use the computer for WORK. Ick ) LOL

Anyway, what kind of law would you like to practice after you graduate? Any idea, yet?

[schmega]

eh, you sound kinda bitter to me.

gimme a break, not everything said here is meant to be an attack on your chosen profession.

you have to admit its insane when our legal system's swamped with frivolous suits brought on by petty people and equally petty lawyers, and theres no end in sight.

why, in a bad economy, would people flock to law school? do they all honestly and genuinely love the legal process? if you're not doing it to put criminals away, or to defend poor, innocent people who cant afford the best lawyers, then you're a money-grubbing whore. a lot of us are whores in our own way, but lawyers do it at the expense of others.

i figure i'll need at least 2 lawyers in my lifetime: one to fight off a frivolous suit, and the other to defend me in the justified killing of the asshole who sued me.

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[Jack_Doff]

The legal profession is pretty much recession proof. The firm I work at has been expanding at a time when people have been having a tough time finding jobs. When people get downsized, they tend to re-educate themselves and the potential money involved is very attractive.

As for the money-grubbing whore line, Schmega, do you do your job purely to make the world a better place? Most likely, you do it because you get paid to do it. That doesn't make you a money-grubbing whore, it makes you a pretty average person who has bills and wants to go out to dinner once in a while. There's nothing wrong with it.

And I won't defend lawyers, there are pricks, but there are also cool people who are lawyers. It's like any other group of people.

[East Side Dave]

I always wanted to be a lawyer since I saw "My Cousin Vinny." Objection, your honor!! You know, things like that. But then I saw "Days of Thunder." Now I want to be a race car driver!!
Vvvrrooooooooommm!!

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[Mike Teacher]

Scott Turow's 'One L' is a great read on the subject. About his first year; non-fiction. Think Paper Chase with a couple of Houseman's, and an Ocean of Reading.

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[Arienette]

gimme a break, not everything said here is meant to be an attack on your chosen profession.how did you go from my comment to assuming that i thought johnny was attacking my profession? i don't care whether someone does or doesn't want to be a lawyer. he sounded bitter to me; that's got nothing to do with what i've chosen to do for work. grow up.

<center><img src="http://somesuch.org/sigpics/aricheat.gif" height=100 width=300</img><br>in my secret drawer, in my pockets deep<br>you will find the reasons that i can't sleep<br>and you will still want me</center>

[schmega]

how did you go from my comment to assuming that i thought johnny was attacking my profession?

how do you go about calling him bitter when he said he was glad he didnt go to law school? whats he bitter about? he sounded relieved to me.


http://gilseed.home.acedsl.com/spsig.jpg

[Johnny Fontane]

eh, you sound kinda bitter to me.


I must admit that there is some element of bitterness in there, only because when people in my office go off to law school (or if they go at night), they make such a big production of it (i.e., "I'm too good for this place.") My feeling about these people is fine, then why don't you do a decent job administering cases? If you can't do that type of work well, why should I assume that you will make a great lawyer?

So truth be told it DOES annoy me when they act like "I'm moving on to bigger and better things while you toil here." My boss is a lawyer, and he doesn't make much more than me (probably $5,000, if that) and of course there is the foreign girl with the chip on her shoulder who makes much less than me. They both take a bit of an attitude, but my theory is this: if you're a lawyer, why aren't you making the big bucks? Answer: because you're not as good as those lawyers.

http://www.grandinotizie.it/image/g/000/00040.jpg
"The principal benefit acting has afforded me is the money to pay for my psychoanalysis."

[reeshy]

I have dealt with lawyers my entire professional life...I give them a 50-50 rating!! Half of them were assholes and the other half were pretty good....It's like any other profession..good and bad....as far as the money they make...well...highly over-rated for what they do!!!

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[Arienette]

how do you go about calling him bitter when he said he was glad he didnt go to law school? whats he bitter about? he sounded relieved to me.it was an opinion, just like you have yours. why are you attacking me because of my opinion? furthermore, if you read on, you'll see that my opinion was right. so i'll ask you kindly to shut the hell up already.

They both take a bit of an attitude, but my theory is this: if you're a lawyer, why aren't you making the big bucks? Answer: because you're not as good as those lawyers.that could be true. there are many lawyers who aren't interested in the big bucks, mostly because big bucks=insane hours, and some people want to have a family and a life outside of work. but i think that there are also a lot of people who become lawyers because they are looking for the money. and you're right about your reaction to their attitudes - becoming a lawyer is a lot of work, but it's not so hard (or rare) that you should feel that you're better than anyone else.



<center><img src="http://somesuch.org/sigpics/aricheat.gif" height=100 width=300</img><br>in my secret drawer, in my pockets deep<br>you will find the reasons that i can't sleep<br>and you will still want me</center>

[schmega]

it was an opinion, just like you have yours. why are you attacking me because of my opinion? furthermore, if you read on, you'll see that my opinion was right. so i'll ask you kindly to shut the hell up already.

calling someone bitter is more than just an opinion, i think you know that. its a little insulting. he was offering his opinion, and you judged him to be bitter. you can pat yourself on the back now that he validated your 'opinion'. but dont ask me to shut up on a message board. thats just silly.

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[ADF]

Have you been sucking on a bottle of Angostura?

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[Johnny Fontane]

Ari, Schmega, you're making me anxious - any second I'm going to turn on "Harper Valley PTA" and start shaking my ass.

I guess the goal in life is to be happy at what you do, regardless of professional status or how much you make. What prompted me to post this topic is the fact that a girl who reports to me is leaving for law school (full time) in about one week. During her 14 months with the company, she did a decent job, but nothing spectacular. She never presented herself as an intellect. For example, she rarely took the initiative to say two words when we were engaged in conference calls with counsel - is that how someone interested in a law career should act?

The good news is that she is intelligent, but during her time with the company she was bit too slick, taking the maximum number of sick days and rarely showing up for work on time. Fortunately she had the tools to get the job done.

In any event, I wish her well, but one day in the near future I'm sure she is going to realize how easy she had it.

http://www.grandinotizie.it/image/g/000/00040.jpg
"The principal benefit acting has afforded me is the money to pay for my psychoanalysis."

This message was edited by Johnny Fontane on 8-14-04 @ 12:25 PM

[Se7en]

I'm heading into my final year of law school as well. To answer the question posed by Johnny, law school isn't for everyone, and I've seen a LOT of people come and go in the time I've been in school.....and of course, the actual bar exam itself weeds out some. In general, I would have to say that successful law students are, generally, very intelligent (you DO need to be of a reasonable intelligence to understand certain aspects of law, to think analytically, etc.), but determination is what pays off more than anything. This is a business that if you seriously want to do well, be successful, you really have to want it. I mean, WANT it. Because otherwise you will NOT be able to skate by.

I don't think it's a waste of time or money - if it's what you want to do. I've always been interested in law in some form or other, so I've always wanted to be working in or with the law. If you aren't able to really get your heart into this, though, stay the HELL away, because law school itself will drive you insane.

that could be true. there are many lawyers who aren't interested in the big bucks, mostly because big bucks=insane hours, and some people want to have a family and a life outside of work. but i think that there are also a lot of people who become lawyers because they are looking for the money. and you're right about your reaction to their attitudes - becoming a lawyer is a lot of work, but it's not so hard (or rare) that you should feel that you're better than anyone else.

You shouldn't, but you should feel a great sense of pride at accomplishing something which is exceptionally difficult. Law school is not a cake walk by any stretch of the imagination, and I would have to say that many people, if they tried it, just wouldn't have the patience or the stomach to last all the way through.

And BTW, I'm in it for the money. Mainly because come this time next year, I'll be having to find a way to pay off the tens of thousands I owe in student loans.

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[TheMojoPin]

I'm studying to be a doctor by day and a lawyer by night.

I'll be like Anthony Edwards and John Larroquette all rolled into one!

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[mikeyboy]

I was thinking more Dr. Nick and Lionel Hutz

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[Arienette]

se7en, i agree with you. it is a big accomplishment. i just mean that it doesn't make you superior to anyone else. but it is a lot of hard work, and i think it's sort of amazing that anyone wants to be a lawyer enough to go through it. so, congrats to you, and enjoy third year.

calling someone bitter is more than just an opinion, i think you know that. its a little insulting. he was offering his opinion, and you judged him to be bitter. you can pat yourself on the back now that he validated your 'opinion'. but dont ask me to shut up on a message board. thats just silly.what exactly do you think an opinion is? i could have sworn it was a person's subjective interpretation of something. maybe i don't understand your complex definition.. after all, i'm just a lawyer.

from what i can gather, johnny had no problem with what i said, whether i was right or wrong. i happen to have met him a couple of times, and he's a nice guy. it was nothing personal, and he seemed to get that. i'm not quite sure why you've taken this on as your cause or whatever. i don't know what your problem is, but you seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder.. just my opinion, of course.


<center><img src="http://somesuch.org/sigpics/aricheat.gif" height=100 width=300</img><br>in my secret drawer, in my pockets deep<br>you will find the reasons that i can't sleep<br>and you will still want me</center>

[schmega]

i don't know what your problem is, but you seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder.

i'm not the one with a problem. its not me calling others bitter, or telling them to grow up, shut up, etc.

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[mikeyboy]

I'm not optimistic as to where this is headed. Everybody take a deep breath and try to keep this on track without pointing fingers.

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[schmega]

yes.

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[Arienette]

i didnt realize that one was allowed only to post facts and coddling on the board. my mistake.

mikey, i'll leave it alone, much as i might like to say more. this isn't going anywhere good.

<center><img src="http://somesuch.org/sigpics/aricheat.gif" height=100 width=300</img><br>in my secret drawer, in my pockets deep<br>you will find the reasons that i can't sleep<br>and you will still want me</center>

[Leadbottom]

Satan loves lawyers.

[Arienette]

ari <3 satan 4-ever!

<center><img src="http://somesuch.org/sigpics/aricheat.gif" height=100 width=300</img><br>in my secret drawer, in my pockets deep<br>you will find the reasons that i can't sleep<br>and you will still want me</center>