One Reason Why The Democrats Will Lose

[Leadbottom]

They made a criminal like Al Sharpton legitimate.
If you vote for a party that panders to this thug you must be insane!

[Lumber]

They made a criminal like Al Sharpton legitimate.
If you vote for a party that panders to this thug you must be insane!

You are correct Sir!
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[blakjeezis]

That's actually not a bad point, Adolf.

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If I were any better, I'd have to be twins!!
<marquee><font color=red>INRI</font> White people are so scared of blakjeezis<font color=red> INRI</font></marquee>
Broken bones sticking out of her virgin, white gown/She spread herself out like butter when she smacked the ground.

[Yerdaddy]

Leadbottom, if Kerry wins will you agree to stop sucking Ann Coulter's cock for two weeks?

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Fuck it from behind.

[Lumber]

But, even I know Kerry won`t win...

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/lumber/morningwood.jpg">

[Leadbottom]

Shame on you Dems.

[Doomstone]

They made a criminal like Al Sharpton legitimate.



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[canofsoup15]

Well now that I've seen that George Bush had a DUI from 28 years ago, this changes my whole stance on everything I used to believe in government.

Kerry/Edwards 04'

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[A.J.]

They made a criminal like Al Sharpton legitimate.

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[Yerdaddy]

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Fuck it from behind.

This message was edited by Yerdaddy on 8-8-04 @ 7:43 PM

[SatCam]

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The Road's name was "Chappaquiddick roda" and an intersecting road was "Dike road"? This proves it. The Ted Kennedy accident never actually did happen.

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50%[color=white]

[Doomstone]

http://i.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1987/1101870720_400.jpg

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[TheMojoPin]

How is Al Sharpton a "thug" and a "criminal?"

Look, I think he's a horrible front for the Dems AND any black community, but lobbing vague accusations like that is as weak as people just saying Bush is still a drunken cokefiend...just because they want to.

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1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[furie]

http://fathermonty.org/dig2.GIF


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<a href="http://fallingtowardsapotheosis.blogspot.com/">mental vomit</a>

[FUNKMAN]

One Reason Why The Democrats Will Lose


chads

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[reeshy]

How is Al Sharpton a "thug" and a "criminal?


Can you say..."Tawanna Brawley"???????

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[center]
[center]I know karate....voodoo too!![center]

[TheMojoPin]

http://www.unknownnews.net/rumsfeld-saddam.jpg

http://www.turning.ca/images/ahmad-terrorism-theirs-and-.jpg
(Couldn't find a pic of the back cover, but the image details several members of what would become the Taliban, and were Muslim extremists of the nth degree already, meeting with Reagan in the Oval Office in the 80's)

And hell, I can end this all right now...

http://libwww.syr.edu/research/internet/political_science/nixon.jpg

Destroyed the American public's trust in the government, and created our apathy/anger/fear of our modern political system. All the animosity we're tossing out in this thread, and pretty much this entire forum? Basically all Nixon's fault. Plus, he fucked up 'Nam even worse than LBJ did, and basically set us on the military ambiguity our nation suffers from still to this day. Pretty hard to trump.

Reeshy, I know all about that hoax. Again, however, I ask, how does that make him a thug or a criminal?

Main Entry: thug
Pronunciation: 'th&g
Function: noun
Etymology: Hindi thag, literally, thief
: a brutal ruffian or assassin : GANGSTER, KILLER

Main Entry: 1crimúiúnal
Pronunciation: 'kri-m&-n&l, 'krim-n&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French or Late Latin; Middle French criminel, from Late Latin criminalis, from Latin crimin- crimen crime
1 : relating to, involving, or being a crime <criminal neglect>
2 : relating to crime or to the prosecution of suspects in a crime <criminal statistics> <brought criminal action>
3 : guilty of crime; also : of or befitting a criminal <a criminal mind>

And you know what? I defy anyone in EITHER party to say more things that were spot-on than Sharpton at the DNC. He was the only one with any fire in his belly. Doesn't make him the best man for the job, but he still said what had to be said.

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1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 8-8-04 @ 10:25 PM

[Doomstone]

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M1 rules!
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[badorties]

not to give any nazi crackpots any creedence, but rev. al is a dispictable human being ...


How is Al Sharpton a "thug" and a "criminal?"


the hoax was bad enough ...

then accusations against Steven Pagones were unfounded:


Pagones was named as one of the attackers by Miss Brawley's advisers: Maddox, the Rev. Al Sharpton and lawyer C. Vernon Mason. While Miss Brawley refused to speak with authorities or the media, her advisers were soon making wild claims. Jury selection was supposed to have started for the Pagones' defamation lawsuit, seeking more than $150 million from Miss Brawley's three advisers when Maddox accused then-state Attorney General Robert Abrams of masturbating over photos of Miss Brawley. Sharpton compared Abrams, a Jew, to Adolf Hitler. All three linked then-Gov. Mario Cuomo to organized crime and the Ku Klux Klan.


then the harlem riots:


Finally, Sharpton led pickets of a Harlem store owned by a Jewish man who he attacked as a "white interloper." One of the protesters eventually stormed the store, shot three people, set the store on fire, shot himself and left seven others dead.




<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=badorties"><br>

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[reeshy]

not to give any nazi crackpots any creedence,


Why would you even qualify your statement by saying this??? Because someone disagrees with Sharpton, is no reason to equate them with this!!

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[TheMojoPin]

He's talking about the author of this thread, Leadbottom, and about the threads that guy has started, with ideas like sterilizing poor people.

Well, I fully concede Sharpton is no saint, or even anything close to an example of a decent human being. Like I said above, he's no good as a presidential candidate or even a national "black leader." But at the same time, I think he's talked about like he's another Gotti, or even worse, which is the height of alarmist horseshit.

And I still think he rocked the house at the DNC.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 8-8-04 @ 11:31 PM

[FUNKMAN]

One Reason Why The Democrats Will Lose


they might receive less votes?

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[Tall_James]

http://www.grrlscout.com/metrodork/smokin-b.gif

"THE BITCH SET ME UP!!!"


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[TheMojoPin]

The mayor so nice they elected him twice!

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1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[A.J.]

HAPPY 30TH ANNIVERSARY EVERYBODY!!!!

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Red Sox Nation

[Mike Teacher]

Well done AJ, I heard on the radio yesterday it was 30 years. Wow.



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[El Mudo]

I like that picture with Nixon and Elvis better....

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~tlotz1/nixon_and_elvis.gif

http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall/when_nixon_met_elvis/images/thank_you_note.jpg

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[FMJeff]

he couldnt even sign it?

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<br>
It made my heart sing.

[kc7586]

One reason the democrats will loose is the fact their leader is a fucking dumbass who has no platform other than bush sucks and I got 3 purple hearts, VOTE FOR ME!!.

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Good girls are bad girls that dont get caught.
Life's a bitch.....then you strangle one.

[JerryTaker]

One reason the democrats will loose is the fact their leader is a fucking dumbass who has no platform other than bush sucks and I got 3 purple hearts, VOTE FOR ME!!.

If you really believe this, you're not paying attention to anything other than late night talk shows and soulless talking heads on the news

<br><B>
[The Patriot Act has decreed this sig indecent, and has put JerryTaker under suspicion]</B>

[keithy_19]

The democrats will lose the election because Bush will win with the electoral college. It's going to be close, but John Kerry will talk himself into a wall. Bush needs for there to be no attacks on the this country and for Iraq to stay status quo.

http://64.177.177.182/katylina/ashleesig.jpg

[Heather 8]

One reason the democrats will loose is the fact their leader is a fucking dumbass who has no platform other than bush sucks and I got 3 purple hearts, VOTE FOR ME!!.

If you really believe this, you're not paying attention to anything other than late night talk shows and soulless talking heads on the news


Actually, it sounds to me like someone's been watching the JibJab cartoon one too many times.

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My sexy sig iz pastede on YAY!!!!11!

[FUNKMAN]

One Reason Why The Democrats Will Lose


The TermiNader

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[monsterone]

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tell me who's invited: you, your friends and my dick </font>


<font color="white">moe & horde king, come back soon</font>


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[color=White]

[kc7586]

I've only seen it twice peachy, but it sums that ass up pretty well and it's funny as hell.

He has no platform because he swings with whatever the hell he thinks the public will like him more for.

He keeps talking about his fucking war thing because it's the only thing he really ever did for the country. And he didn't do much for us anyway, he gave himself the damn things. And all 3 in a 3 months span! Big fucking hero... One he got from doing something stupid and giving himself a small cut on his arm. Once he got the 3, he got the hell out of there as fast as humanly possible and made like he was the biggest fucking hero ever. Not to mention, as soon as he got back he painted this picture of our boys as being as killers who ran around slaying people for their own amusement. And because this is the only thing he has contributed to the country(just barely) he is trying to pass bullshit bills to shut the people who keep saying "who gives an eff about his Vietnam record!" up.

Like a typical lib he wants to basically rob from everyone to help the poor. Good idea in theory, but he wants to do all these things but where does the moeny come from? You and I, the middle class of workers. I don't know about you but I like not losing half my check to taxes.

He also wants to turn everything around over seas, in my opinion the terrorists want him to win so they will have an easier time killing the rest of us. He wants to competly reverse what millions of dollars and lives has worked to accomplish. Yes there are still problems over there, but any nation takes time to develop. And because we helped get rid of that cocksucker, we basically had them start from scratch. No matter where you go there will always be insane vigilanties trying to make a statement, so they're blowing shit up shouldn't be looked at as more than normal, especially for them and the whole dying with honor thing.

I just turned 18, so this is my first election. I admit I don't know everything about both parties, but I watch, listen, and read to many things to gather knowlege. I'm still absorbing information, but I do definatly know enough that just because I'm young doesn't mean I'm going to be some stupid nutsack lib.

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This message was edited by kc7586 on 8-10-04 @ 9:32 PM

[HBox]

He keeps talking about his fucking war thing because it's the only thing he really ever did for the country. And he didn't do much for us anyway, he gave himself the damn things. And all 3 in a 3 months span! Big fucking hero... One he got from doing something stupid and giving himself a small cut on his arm. Once he got the 3, he got the hell out of there as fast as humanly possible and made like he was the biggest fucking hero ever. Not to mention, as soon as he got back he painted this picture of our boys as being as killers who ran around slaying people for their own amusement. And because this is the only thing he has contributed to the country(just barely) he is trying to pass bullshit bills to shut the people who keep saying "who gives an eff about his Vietnam record!" up.

Way to piss all over John Kerry's war record. I'm personally sick of him playing it up so much but I and most people realize he's a hero for what he did over there. Let me ask you a question. If you got wounded 3 times in 3 months and had an opporunity to leave, would you? Well, I guess you wouldn't be there in the first place since you think trying to save a fellow soldier's life is doing "something stupid." Yeah, I guess that's one way to put it, a WRONG way.

You and I, the middle class of workers.

I just turned 18

Yeah, get back to me in 10 years, Cartman.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

[Yerdaddy]

http://www.ed.gov/images/promos_etc_Per_Section/NCLB/ed_ncl_mn_image.jpg

So much for that goal.


I'm just being a tool because I don't really know how to respond to that convoluted rant. Welcome to the voting world KC. My advice is to work towards getting beyond glib generalizations and pure partisanship. The issues matter, the sides we line up on don't. But the issues take a lot more understanding than the parties and ideologies offer. So keep doing your homework.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[kc7586]

He keeps talking about his fucking war thing because it's the only thing he really ever did for the country. And he didn't do much for us anyway, he gave himself the damn things. And all 3 in a 3 months span! Big fucking hero... One he got from doing something stupid and giving himself a small cut on his arm. Once he got the 3, he got the hell out of there as fast as humanly possible and made like he was the biggest fucking hero ever. Not to mention, as soon as he got back he painted this picture of our boys as being as killers who ran around slaying people for their own amusement. And because this is the only thing he has contributed to the country(just barely) he is trying to pass bullshit bills to shut the people who keep saying "who gives an eff about his Vietnam record!" up.

Way to piss all over John Kerry's war record. I'm personally sick of him playing it up so much but I and most people realize he's a hero for what he did over there. Let me ask you a question. If you got wounded 3 times in 3 months and had an opporunity to leave, would you? Well, I guess you wouldn't be there in the first place since you think trying to save a fellow soldier's life is doing "something stupid." Yeah, I guess that's one way to put it, a WRONG way.

You and I, the middle class of workers.

I just turned 18

Yeah, get back to me in 10 years, Cartman.

First off, war record? hero? What have you been smoking, he gave himself those purple hearts so he could leave, that was his so called opportunity to leave. Apparently he didn't want to be there any more than we do. And who is most people? I don't know what you've been reading but that stupid thing he did was shooting into or at something he shouldn't have and warned not to and the shrapnel came back and hit him and he got a little scratch. I put nohting the wrong way, I just see John Kerry's war record for what it really is... complete and utter bullshit.

I am 18, but I've been working and earning a paycheck just like you. Whether I'm working 2 years or 20, the point is the same, I earned my money and don't feel like haivng half of it taken for some taxes.

<marquee>I am woman hear me roar, bitch, and whine.</marquee>
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<marquee behavior=alternate scrolldelay=30>Vampire girls suck....</marquee>
Good girls are bad girls that dont get caught.
Life's a bitch.....then you strangle one.

[Yerdaddy]

So Edwards is the pitcher, Kerry is the catcher, and you're the ball? That's nasty.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[HBox]

What have you been smoking, he gave himself those purple hearts so he could leave, that was his so called opportunity to leave.

Do you have any idea how medals are given? Because I was under the impression that soldiers can't just give themselves medals at will.

I don't know what you've been reading but that stupid thing he did was shooting into or at something he shouldn't have and warned not to and the shrapnel came back and hit him and he got a little scratch.

If you are referring to those accusations from the Swift Boat vets, let me fill you in on something. Not one of them served on the boat with Kerry. The one who was questioning Kerry's first Purple Heart was the doctor treating him. Soldiers get Purple Hearts when they are wounded from enemy fire. Despite the doctor trying to minimize Kerry's injury, if it was as he described it, it was enough for a Purple Heart. The doctor wasn't in the field, so he couldn't know if that injury wasn't from enemy fire.

I put nohting the wrong way, I just see John Kerry's war record for what it really is... complete and utter bullshit

No, you just can't accept the fact that someone whose politics you don't agree with might actually be a good human being deserving of your respect. You looked for a reason to doubt him, found it, and are not looking back.

I am 18, but I've been working and earning a paycheck just like you. Whether I'm working 2 years or 20, the point is the same, I earned my money and don't feel like haivng half of it taken for some taxes.

Well, unless you are making over $200,000 Kerry won't raise your taxes. I doubt you are. Doesn't mean you have to agree, but its good to look like you know what you are talking about and not just spewing some vague, outlandish liberal stereotypes.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

[canofsoup15]

Regardless of what happened in Vietnam, it doesn't matter. Why should anyone make any judgements on this election based on past events? The guy got a purple heart and some medals, half of the voter population doesn't even know what those medals mean.

I think a clear point that KC was making was that he's driving this "i was in Vietnam" shit into the ground. Stop telling me about what a "hero" you were and get back to telling me what your going to do for me and my family.

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[FUNKMAN]

Well, unless you are making over $200,000 Kerry won't raise your taxes


i think it should start at 500,000... he's gonna lose alot more votes at 200k

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/monster6sixty6/guests/fm2_sig.jpg">

[TheMojoPin]

Sloppy amounts of spin when it comes to Kerry & 'Nam. (http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?2004_08_08_archive.html#1092102447095280 )

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1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[HBox]

I think a clear point that KC was making was that he's driving this "i was in Vietnam" shit into the ground. Stop telling me about what a "hero" you were and get back to telling me what your going to do for me and my family.

No he wasn't. He was taking a shit over everything Kerry did. I don't think his service means that much in terms of whether he can be a good President, and it is incredibly annoying how he plays it up so much, but he did what he did. He saved a life and risked his own to do it. He volunteered to go to Vietnam. It unquestionably speaks highly of his character. Whether what he did since does the same thing is up to question, and is more important as to whether he can be President.

EDIT: And that's not to say Kerry isn't stretching it a bit either. When he volunteered to serve on swift boats, they were considered a safe, cushy job. That soon changed of course. He still volunteered to go, which is more than most did, but its not as if he rushed to the front lines either.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

This message was edited by HBox on 8-11-04 @ 1:00 AM

[FUNKMAN]

i was in Vietnam" shit into the ground


i believe he is using it to calm people's fears about how tough he will be with terrorism... if he's willing to be on the frontline, 'unlike some no-show whom i won't mention, silver spoon in the mouth guy' then he will have the bravery to face the terrorists" And that he understands the 'tactics' of the enemy and realizes how to best deal with it "unlike some 'oilboy' who sends our young soldiers 'into deathtraps' unprepared ...

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/monster6sixty6/guests/fm2_sig.jpg">

[HBox]

And to be fair to Kerry, as of the convention polls were still showing that a significant portion (I believe around 40%) of the populace didn't know about Kerry's service and what he did in Vietnam. In this country you have to beat this kind of shit into the head of voters.

Besides, no one complains when we hear the numerous Republican Talking Points repeated ad nauseum. Alright, Kerry and Edwards are the 1st and 4th most liberal Senators! WE GET IT ALREADY!

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

[kc7586]

I think he is not trying to soothe the public into thinking he's going to do things agaisnt terrorism, I think its just something he can talk about to make himself look better. Ok, now I'm going to do something Kerry should, I'm going to burry the fucking vietnam shit. wee that feels better. Now as for him being a good president, I don't think so in a million years, as I stated in a prior post. And I do think our current president is a complete dumbass. But it is a sad day indeed when its accurate to say he would do a better job than Kerry.


Pssssst....HBox.....guess what I'm a chick, I'm assuming I'm the he who was taking a shit over kerry.

Yerrdaddy is gross.

<marquee>I am woman hear me roar, bitch, and whine.</marquee>
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Good girls are bad girls that dont get caught.
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[HBox]

Pssssst....HBox.....guess what I'm a chick, I'm assuming I'm the he who was taking a shit over kerry

Well then I apologize. When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me, or just me in this case.

But it is a sad day indeed when its accurate to say he would do a better job than Kerry.

Well, that's just a matter of opinion.

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[kc7586]

You are forgiven stupid vagina man. I don't know why it bothers me all the time but it does and I correct coutless people, so don't worry about it. Why does like half this board think I'm a guy, are my posts butch?

Nite all, same bat time same bat channel tomorrow for more fun with politics

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This message was edited by kc7586 on 8-11-04 @ 1:25 AM

[canofsoup15]

I always thought you were a female...maybe it's because you make 4 female references around your sig.

That and the fact you have:

I am woman hear me roar, bitch, and whine.

Right above your sig.


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[Yerdaddy]

Pssssst....HBox.....guess what I'm a chick, I'm assuming I'm the he who was taking a shit over kerry

Well then it was a good thing when Bush repealed the 19th Ammmendment after all.

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Fuck it from behind.

[JerryTaker]

I am 18,


You know, they'll probably be able to draft women this time 'round, right?

You know Bush has been posturing about how Iran is essentially 'next' on our 'liberation' list, right?

like sand?

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[LiquidCourage]

There's not going to be any draft. Calm down damn it.

[HBox]

You know Bush has been posturing about how Iran is essentially 'next' on our 'liberation' list, right?

Well that might be neccessary since Iran is an actual threat as opposed to the imaginary nature of the Iraq threat.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

[JerryTaker]

There's not going to be any draft. Calm down damn it.


There's certainly a shortage in NJ. Gov. McGreevy was on the radio last week, saying how 65% of NJ reservists are already Deployed in the Middle East.

<br><B>
[The Patriot Act has decreed this sig indecent, and has put JerryTaker under suspicion]</B>

[Yerdaddy]

There's not going to be any draft. Calm down damn it.
A year and a half ago I said the same thing. But the draft is a very real possibility right now, and will be for some time. And I don't mind saying it's even more likely with the Bush administration.

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Fuck it from behind.


This message was edited by Yerdaddy on 8-11-04 @ 7:24 PM

[furie]

Wait, Rangle and Schumer are calling for a draft, not Bush.


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[JerryTaker]

yes, because Chuck Schumer put forth the Iraqui Invasion, right?

Somehow it's all the Dems fault right? Obviously Rush knows exactly what he's talking about, he's the smartest man in the world.... Those drugs only enhanced his intellegence....

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[A.J.]

Rangel proposed reinstaing the draft mostly to make the affluent available to serve.

Story (http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/07/rangel.draft/)

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[Se7en]

The draft is THE biggest red herring out there, because despite the ridiculous knee-jerk reactions from some members of this board, it will never happen.

The recent draft legislation was designed as a scare tactic to frighten voters into thinking that the current administration was going to draft the youth of America into fighting "Bush's wars." It's largely failed. For the simple reason that the legislation has LESS of a chance to pass Congress than the gay marriage amendment, which is why no one is seriously talking about it.

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[RocOutWithYACockOUT]

Well atleast Kerry served his country unlike Bush who completely dodged the war. Anything Kerry did in Vietnam means more than what Bush didn't or do in Alabama. Also I'm tired of hearing people say that when Kerry returned from Vietnam he flip flopped. That's what war does to a person. After killing people in a foreign land you might have change of perspective when you come back home. Just maybe.

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Never read the Qu'ran or Islamic scriptures
Only psalms I read was on the arms of my niggaz
Tattooed so I carry on like I'm non-religious

This message was edited by RocOutWithYACockOUT on 8-12-04 @ 9:33 AM

[furie]

yes, because Chuck Schumer put forth the Iraqui Invasion, right?

Somehow it's all the Dems fault right? Obviously Rush knows exactly what he's talking about, he's the smartest man in the world.... Those drugs only enhanced his intellegence....

<br><B>
[The Patriot Act has decreed this sig indecent, and has put JerryTaker under suspicion]</B>

don't put words in my mouth, jerry. and i;m not citing rush, i'm citing rangle.

all i'm saying is that i don't believe it's more likely for a draft to be reinstated with the Bush administration, when everyone whose advocating a draft is a democrat.


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[Yerdaddy]

I wasn't talking about who's advocating the draft as a political statemtent, I was talking about who was more likely to bring about the need for the draft. And I based my statement that Bush was more likely on the fact that his policies have stretched our forces thin, done so for an unnecessary war, has increased the animosity for America in the world, undermined the multilateral systems that would have facilitated the burden of warfighting to be shared with other nations, underestimated the troop and overall requirements for the under-defined and poorly-planned Iraq war and occupation, has squandered our credibility in the world which diminishes our ability to use diplomacy and other tools short of war to resolve conflicts, etc. All this leads up to the question: if our military's goal was to be able to fight two major conflicts simultaneously, what the fuck do we do now if we're threatened or attacked?

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Fuck it from behind.

[furie]

and once again, Kerry wants to bring in 40,000 more troops, 20,000 to be used in Iraq.


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[A.J.]

to fight two major conflicts simultaneously

"to fight AND WIN two major conflicts simultaneously".

Sorry, it's the job talking. :)

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[Yerdaddy]

and once again, Kerry wants to bring in 40,000 more troops, 20,000 to be used in Iraq.

He also wants to bring more coalition forces in. Granted, at times Bush has tried to get more international troops in, but has never offered the UN or NATO or individual allies enough substantive input other than sending troops and staff to die. Given the contempt that the Bush administration shows for multilateral institutions this isn't surprising. And I think Kerry will be able to greatly increase the help we get from other nations, much like Bush's father did.

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Fuck it from behind.

[furie]

if Kerry's going to bring in more of an international coalition, then why does he need 40,000 more us troops?


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[silera]

Maybe so that the troops already out there can start coming home?


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[HBox]

Kerry wants to increase troop strength by 40,000 and double the size of special forces, but he says he does not want to send more US troops to Iraq. He says will increase troop numbers in Iraq from international forces, and then yesterday, just to confuse everybody even further, he said he wants to start withdrawing U.S. troops in 6 months.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

[NewYorkDragons80]

A year and a half ago I said the same thing. But the draft is a very real possibility right now, and will be for some time. And I don't mind saying it's even more likely with the Bush administration.
That's where I disagree with you. I think Kerry is just as likely to reinstate the draft as Bush. That being said, I don't think a draft would send conscripted troops to Iraq out of the sheer political disaster it would create. I think they would take the active duty military personnel stationed in the US, send them to Iraq, and have them relieved by conscripted troops.

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[A.J.]

Given the contempt that the Bush administration shows for multilateral institutions this isn't surprising.

I think there is more contempt for the idea that U.S. forces could be under foreign control.

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[furie]

I think there is more contempt for the idea that U.S. forces could be under foreign control.



i agree


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[Yerdaddy]

if Kerry's going to bring in more of an international coalition, then why does he need 40,000 more us troops?

Like HBox said, foreign troops could replace US forces. But also, more troops are needed, and have been needed since the fall of Baghdad, in order to finally defeat the insurgency and provide the security necessary to accomplish the overall mission in Iraq. [see article below] At the rate Iraq is going right now there will not be an opportunity to withdraw US forces in the foreeable future, (although there is still the possiblity that political leadership, from either party, will find it politically beneficial to withdraw troops prematurely, contributing to an Iraqi civil war or return to authoritarian rule). But right now more forces are needed in order to even begin to see a light at the end of the occupation tunnel. But I don't see Bush being able to justify that politically, at least until after the election and even then it's unlikely.

Let me restate also that I'm not saying a draft is imminent or even likely, just a real possibility. If it were to come it would follow a major threat or attack that requires a military response while we're overstretched. I think this is less likely under Kerry because I think he's in a better position to do what is required to relieve our troops with international forces, provide more needed once for the short term, get more cooperation with training Iraqi forces and with reconstruction efforts in general, and to reduce our presence in Iraq in the long run, and hopefully before another major operation is required. He also won't have an administration with a history of self-delusion and denial that the Bush administration has, (failing to have troops in position to secure Iraq after the fall of Baghdad, lack of a plan for reconstruction, and fundamental misjudgement of the post-conflict environment, ie. "greeted as liberators"). [I realize I just opened up the door for attacks on Kerry as a "flip-flopper" and whatever else is in the RNC talking points this week. That's a red herring, however, and unless there's a substantive point made by a credible poster like furie, NYD or AJ, I won't be addressing the partisan cliches any time soon. So save the drama for yo mamma, bitches. I'm going to work.

<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A10161-2004May8?language=printer" target="_blank">A Proven Formula for How Many Troops We Need</a>

[i]"When Germany surrendered in May 1945, the U.S. Army had more than 1.6 million men within the borders of the defeated Nazi state. Overnight they became occupation troops: Their orders were to spread out over every square mile of German territory and demonstrate without a doubt that they were in charge. U.S. troops secured every road junction, bridge, border post, government building, factory, bank, warehouse; anything of the slightest conceivable importance had a guard of GIs around it, and so did a good many things of little or no importance, too.

Army plans called for an occupation force of some 400,000 in the American zone for the first 18 months -- or one U.S. soldier for every 40 Germans.

When NATO forces went into Kosovo in 1999, they followed the same proven formula: 50,000 troops for a population of 2 million, one soldier for every 40 inhabitants. A recent Rand Corp. study by military analyst James Quinlivan concluded that the bare minimum ratio to provide security for the inhabitants of an occupied territory, let alone deal with an active insurgency, is one to 50.

In Iraq today, coalition forces number about 160,000, or one for every 160 Iraqis. (Even adding in an estimated 20,000 civilian security contractors working in Iraq, that still translates to one for every 140 Iraqis.) In response to the unremitting attacks and continuing instability, U.S. commanders have now canceled plans to cut troop strength by some 20,000 this year. It is a significant about-face, and one that has unquestionably put a severe strain on both regular and reserve units whose deployments have been extended well beyon

[high fly]

if Kerry's going to bring in more of an international coalition, then why does he need 40,000 more us troops?

Because our military is overstretched right now.

Amateurs just look at maps with pretty red and blue arrows on them, or their little game pieces in Risk.

In real life, troops need to be rotated home to retrain and units need to be reequipped. Right now, we are quite low on important parts like helicopter rotor blades, tracks for armored vehicles and other engine parts.
By keeping them constantly deployed, an army can be worn out.
National Guard and reservists being called up indicate the kind of shortages in manpower the army currently has.
I know several families with members who have been called up and deployed over in that Iraq debacle.
In two families, the husband was in the reserves and they both had to sell their house because the military pay was not enough to make the payments.
That meant the wives had to find a new house, move their shit, find new schools for the kids and more, so their husband could go off and have his life risked in a war based on a pack of lies.

" and they ask me why I drink"
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Big ups to sex bomb baby Katylina (LHOOQ) for the sig!

[Leadbottom]

and don't forget Ted "The Killer" Kennedy and Jesse "Shakedown" Jackson. Shame on the Dems!

[Lumber]

and don't forget Ted "The Killer" Kennedy and Jesse "Shakedown" Jackson. Shame on the Dems!

You miss Mommy & Daddy don`t you...

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