Five French Citizens Kidnapped in Gaza

[Bestinshow]

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=040716&cat=news&st=newsd83s2ns01&src=ap

When will muslims in the middle east realize we arent the enemy.Terrorism affects them as much as us. Maybe more.

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This message was edited by Bestinshow on 7-16-04 @ 4:04 PM

[ChickenHawk]

That link just refreshes this page.

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[furie]

story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3902027.stm)


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[Bestinshow]

That link just refreshes this page.


I know. Sorry. Its fixed now.

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[LiquidCourage]

Sucks to be them.

[furie]

more evidence that we're on the cusp a jihad against the west. this had nothing to do with Iraq or Israel. it's a race and culture war.


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[LiquidCourage]

Agreed. The French are probably the biggest non Arab backers of the Palestinian cause out there. They're kind of hurting themselves here.

[TheMojoPin]

The French are probably the biggest non Arab backers of the Palestinian cause out there.

How the hell do you figure that?

Or do you just WANT it to be true?

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[TheMojoPin]

more evidence that we're on the cusp a jihad against the west.

Cusp?

We're in the midst of it right now.

There never will be an out and out "war" on a large scale bigger than maybe a single country. This IS how that battle will be fought. We can't wait for it to turn into something we can conventionally fight, because it never will become that.

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[Bestinshow]

Hopefully the muslims in the middle east will start taking the same position as what appears to be happening in Iraq and take a staunch position against the insurgents. Otherwise this is really going to get ugly.

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[LiquidCourage]

The French are probably the biggest non Arab backers of the Palestinian cause out there.

How the hell do you figure that?

Or do you just WANT it to be true?

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1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."


That definitely didn't sound the way I wanted to. I'm just saying, if you ever talk to anyone from France, or even pretty much any Western European, the majority opinion is that Palestinians are being unfairly persecuted by the Israelis, who are being supplied and supported by the evil US.

[Bestinshow]

How the hell do you figure that?


Are you trying to tell me that the French arent hugh backers of the arab world?

Look at their voting history in the UN. (Don't ask me to recite it because I havent memorized it.) The times has even written on more than one occasion about the growing muslim population in France raising Arab sympathies.

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[LiquidCourage]

I'm not even talking about the government. I'm just saying that in France the Palestinian cause is more popular than the Israeli one. It wouldn't be a smart movie for Palestinians to start screwing with people who are sympathetic to their cause.

[Bestinshow]

The "cause" of a terrorist is they are willing to strap a bomb to themselves and blow up anyone that doesnt agree with their politics. And if that means blowing up a few of their own people, they dont seem to mind either.

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[TheMojoPin]

Are you trying to tell me that the French arent hugh backers of the arab world?

Hey, so are we. Pretty much everyone in the western wortld has their hands dirty down there. And I'm assuming "backers" means financially, because that's usually what the term means. And I've never seen any kind of figures indicating what the French "spend" in the Middle East, but I don't buy for a second they're pumping massive amounts of cash into Palestine. They're hardly THAT stupid. I'll readily admit I could be wrong, but it doesn't make any sense.

But you're definitely right aobut the terrorists not giving a damn about who they kill, regardless of what the victim's personal politics may be. Look at how may Iraqis have been killed by the terrorists trying to "save" them. These dipshits don't actually care about anyone or anything except themselves.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 7-16-04 @ 5:14 PM

[Bestinshow]

Im referring to political backers, not financial. When it comes to money, it gets gross when you find out whos in bed with who.

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[TheMojoPin]

Well, fine, but we can't expect the rest of the world to be as invested in Israel as we are. They're free to vote and support how they want...if they don't to back Israel, who's to say they have to? They're not obligated to back them or us in that particular issue.

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[Recyclerz]

The Logic of Suicide Terrorism (http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/06/hoffman.htm)

I'll keep posting this link (until the Atlantic locks it up) in every thread I come across where someone implies that the terrorists are crazy or just acting randomly or wantonly. That implication lets them off too easily on the morality scale and it lets US off too easily in developing a plan to beat them. Unfortunately, both the Israeli and American governments have adopted the "as long as we kill more of "them" than they kill of us, we're winning" model. We'll never be safe until we adopt a new paradigm.



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[Bestinshow]

Nobody is obligated to back anyone. I stated that France is one of the biggest Arab sympathizers in the non-arab world.

But I dont want to get into the whole Israel-Palestinian issue here again. All I know is its one thing to have a difference in opinion on where the borders should be , and the settlers issue, and the barrier wall. But to not staunchly and vocally oppose the use of terrorism to achieve their means, is the same as people saying we drove the terrorists to 9/11.

Now that the Palestinian terrorists are resorting to kidnapping and targeting people other than Israeli's, maybe people will see they are the same as other terrorists.

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[Yerdaddy]

<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54453-2004Jul16.html" target="_blank">Abducted Gaza Police Chief Reportedly Released - Other Kidnapped Foreigners Released Late Friday</a>

Also in Gaza, Palestinian militants released two French hostages after kidnapping four French civilians in Gaza in a bid to demand Palestinian President Yasser Arafat make reforms to his government, Palestinian witnesses said.

Late on Friday, gunmen stormed into a restaurant in the Gaza town of Khan Younis and abducted four French electricians, on a visit to help improve the electricity network in the town, and later held them hostage in a nearby Red Crescent building.

Palestinian witnesses and security officials had earlier said that three French nationals had been seized.

<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040716/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_4" target="_blank">Palestinians Say French Citizens Released</a>

[quote]GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Palestinian gunmen released five French citizens late Friday in the Gaza Strip (news - web sites), after kidnapping them while they drank coffee in the southern town of Khan Younis, a Palestinian official said.

The hostages - two women and three men - were held for three hours in a Khan Younis building housing the offices of the Red Crescent Society.

Witnesses saw the two women leaving the Red Crescent offices escorted by Palestinian security officials.

Whatever the reasons for these kidnappings and apparent releases, they don't fit into the usual bickering about Arabs/Muslims vs. "the West." This should serve more as an invitation to understand the internal politics of Palestine and maybe help people get beyond the habit of arguing with glib generalizations that don't apply to reality. Call me a dreamer.

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/16/international/middleeast/16pale.html?pagewanted=print&position=" target="_blank">Isolated and Angry, Gaza Battles Itself, Too</a>

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