LA Cross controversy

[NewYorkDragons80]

What are your opinions on the ACLU pressuring LA County to remove the Cross from its seal?

In my opinion, it's part of California's history. They were founded by Catholic missionaries. If they remove the Cross, they might as well change the name of Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, etc. since they are all in reference to the Catholic roots of the city/states' respective foundations. I was against the Ten Commandments in Alabama because it was clearly a religious statement. However, this is not a religious statement, it is a historical one.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[Tall_James]

I'm more concerned about them trying to take the firearms out of the "LA Guns" band logo.

Seriously, these guys need to pick a more important fight.


<img src=http://home.comcast.net/~cheeseeatingbird/patton.jpg>
Avoiding household responsibilites...one post at a time

[Doomstone]

The cross was added in the 1950's. For hundreds of years, the cross was nowhere to be seen on LA's seal, it was added around the same time that "under god" was added to the pledge and other such measures were taken to show our holiness in the face of the godless commies.



<center><img src="http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/0903/snoopy114025/ds2_sig.jpg">
M1 rules!
</center>

[Mike Teacher]

TJ youre scaring me bringing up LA Gunns.

From a place about 30 mins away, tonight:

TONIGHT: Dokken, LA Guns invade Starland
80s icons Dokken team up with L.A. Guns to rock Starland on Friday, July 9. Tickets are on sale now through Ticketmaster and the venue box office.

=

the horror... the horror... the horror...



<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/buzz">

[TheMojoPin]

Don't people have to care for it to be a "controversy?

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Reephdweller]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/08/girls.name.ap/vert.riordan.ap.jpg

Look folks, the only people offended by this are stupid dirty girls!!

<center><IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=3">
Reefy's website... (http://www.osirusonline.com/)</center>
<font size="1" color="red">
<center>Check out The Ron and Fez Show Logs...UPDATED!!!!! (http://www.osirusonline.com/ronfez.htm)</center>
<marquee behavior=alternate bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Right now you could care less about me...
but soon enough you will care, by the time I'm done</marquee> </font>

[Freakshow]

I'm more concerned about the LA Gear controversy
<img src=http://aha09.co.kr/goods/picture/middle/1109.gif>

Noboby buys that shit any more.


<center><img src=http://www.christpuncherrecords.com/sigs/moon.jpg>
Spring term is almost over, and I'm really hating my job. My lease on my apartment is amost run out. The tags on my car expire next week. If I'm ever going to do it, this just seems like a good time to kill myself..</center>

[Def Dave in SC]

Oh, man, I thought this was going to be about Lacrosse. Either way, Mojo's comment still makes sense.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=DefDave"><br>

Much Love to my Homies dcpete, Todd EVF, Pantera, Tall_James, Saddlelight Kam (sp?) and everyone else who made me a sig


UCF:AYBABTU

[NewYorkDragons80]

The cross was added in the 1950's. For hundreds of years, the cross was nowhere to be seen on LA's seal, it was added around the same time that "under God" was added to the pledge and other such measures were taken to show our holiness in the face of the Godless commies.
Do you have a source for that? I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just having trouble finding that.

I don't think that the fact that a document or a seal is amended neccessarily means that it is tainted.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The deuchebags at the ACLU continue to spin out of control. Why is it that they will side for a person who wants to wear a muslim head scarf in public school but they want to eliminate the Judeo-Christian values in this country?

FIRE SATHER!!!!!!!

[Doomstone]

The cross was added in the 1950's. For hundreds of years, the cross was nowhere to be seen on LA's seal, it was added around the same time that "under God" was added to the pledge and other such measures were taken to show our holiness in the face of the Godless commies.
Do you have a source for that? I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just having trouble finding that.


http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/9884520p-10806747c.html



A Republican running against U.S. Rep. Howard Berman wants to place a measure on the November ballot that would return the tiny image of a cross to the Los Angeles County seal.
County supervisors voted 3 to 2 last month to remove the cross, <b>which has been part of the seal since 1957</b>, after the American Civil Liberties Union threatened to sue. The group said the cross was a government endorsement of Christianity.




<center><img src="http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/0903/snoopy114025/ds2_sig.jpg">
M1 rules!
</center>

[TheMojoPin]

The deuchebags at the ACLU continue to spin out of control. Why is it that they will side for a person who wants to wear a muslim head scarf in public school but they want to eliminate the Judeo-Christian values in this country?

I think this is a stupid case, but come on, you picked a piss-poor example to bring up. What does what a kid wears in school have to do with an official government seal that's supposed to be representative of everyone living in the state? If people were saying a kid can't wear a crucifix on a chain, or a cross on a shirt, then it would be a direct comparison. You're trying to pit religion against religion in two completely seperate issues. The religion in school issue comes up (And should) when teachers and/or the school itself "officially" endorses a religion or a religious tradition, not the students themselves. Students should be free to express their religion however they want, no matter what religion they are. It's the public schools and the workers there that need to knock that shit off.

Man, and fuck " religious values." Religion stays in a church or a temple or a mosque or wherever the fuck it is. Get that shit out of my face, and how dare anyone think that those "values" are somehow supposed to apply to me or anyone else in the goddamn country just because they choose to apply it to themselves.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[WRESTLINGFAN]

[quote]The deuchebags at the ACLU continue to spin out of control. Why is it that they will side for a person who wants to wear a muslim head scarf in public school but they want to eliminate the Judeo-Christian values in this country?

I think this is a stupid case, but come on, you picked a piss-poor example to bring up. What does what a kid wears in school have to do with an official government seal that's supposed to be representative of everyone living in the state? If people were saying a kid can't wear a crucifix on a chain, or a cross on a shirt, then it would be a direct comparison. You're trying to pit religion against religion in two completely seperate issues. The religion in school issue comes up (And should) when teachers and/or the school itself "officially" endorses a religion or a religious tradition, not the students themselves. Students should be free to express their religion however they want, no matter what religion they are. It's the public schools and the workers there that need to knock that shit off.

Man, and fuck " religious values." Religion stays in a church or a temple or a mosque or wherever the fuck it is. Get that shit out of my face, and how dare anyone think that those "values" are somehow supposed to apply to me or anyone else in the goddamn country just because they choose to apply it to themselves.
[quote]

The point I am trying to make is that the ACLU wants to have it both ways on religion. They want to separate Church and State but when a Muslim kid is forbidden to wear a headscarf they file a lawsuit. Should we also say that Mosque and State should be seperate?

Back to this topic. I think the reason for having a cross in the seal of Los Angeles has to do with Junipero Serra, a catholic monk who started catholic missions in California, and another reason could be that Los Angeles means The Angels so that might be a factor.

Heres the 411 on Serra

Junipero Serra (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13730b.htm)

FIRE SATHER!!!!!!!

[mikeyboy]

http://www.wrybread.com/gammablablog/images/4-03/david-cross.jpg

I'm more concerned about the David Cross controversy. I mean, the guy is everywhere.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=mikeyboy">
Ron & Fez Show Log (http://www.osirusonline.com/ronfez.htm)

[HBox]

I'm not going to go look for examples, but I know there have been cases where the ACLU have supported religious symbols. They draw the line when a government entity displays religious symbols. If it is a person who wants to display a religious symbol and government or employers stop them the ACLU will and has in the past generally supported those people's rights.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

[A.J.]

Put Kriss Kross on there instead.

Problem solved.

<img src=http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Canofsoup15/Sigs/AJinDC-Sig.jpg>

A Skidmark/canofsoup15 production.

Red Sox Nation

[TheMojoPin]

The point I am trying to make is that the ACLU wants to have it both ways on religion. They want to separate Church and State but when a Muslim kid is forbidden to wear a headscarf they file a lawsuit.

You're missing the point. A kid wearing something to school is not an issue of church seperated from state. Seperate church and state deals with, and always has, with government institutions (Federal or local) endorsing, supporting and preaching a religion as a form or part of government. A kid wearing religious clothing has nothing to do with church and state.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[WRESTLINGFAN]

[/quote]

You're missing the point. A kid wearing something to school is not an issue of church seperated from state. Seperate church and state deals with, and always has, with government institutions (Federal or local) endorsing, supporting and preaching a religion as a form or part of government. A kid wearing religious clothing has nothing to do with church and state.

[/quote]


There was a case in Florida last year where the ACLU wanted to sue a public school teacher because she wore a cross. The ACLU flip flops on things like this.

Since church and state should be seperate, then we are all guilty of violating this because printed on our money and pressed into coins reads "In God We Trust"

FIRE SATHER!!!!!!!

[ADF]

There was a case in Florida last year where the ACLU wanted to sue a public school teacher because she wore a cross. The ACLU flip flops on things like this.

Since church and state should be seperate, then we are all guilty of violating this because printed on our money and pressed into coins reads "In God We Trust"


Still, you're missing the point. I don't know the specifics of the case you mentioned, but the teacher, as an employee of the school, is a representative of the government.

Also, just because I have money with the word "god" on it doesn't mean the government has my tacit approval to endorse religion. I'd prefer it if the phrase and all religious symbols were taken off of my money, but I don't care enough to make a stink about it.



<center><a href="http://somesuch.org" target="_blank"><img src="http://somesuch.org/sigpics/topato.jpg"></a><i><br><br><b>blablam!</i></b></center>

[Arienette]

Since church and state should be seperate, then we are all guilty of violating this because printed on our money and pressed into coins reads "In God We Trust"
we discussed this in my first amendment class. really, that phrase on the money probably is a violation of the first amendment. however, it's just too deeply entrenched in our society to be uprooted. despite what some people think, they do choose their battles.. and they know that "in god we trust" is just not one that can be won.

now, as far as this cross thing, i don't think it's crazy at all. as a jewish person, i don't know that i'd feel comfortable if the seal of the place where i lived bore a cross.

<center><img src="http://somesuch.org/sigpics/aricheat.gif" height=100 width=300</img><br>in my secret drawer, in my pockets deep<br>you will find the reasons that i can't sleep<br>and you will still want me</center>

[Se7en]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/08/girls.name.ap/vert.riordan.ap.jpg

Look folks, the only people offended by this are stupid dirty girls!!


I don't even know WHY this doesn't have its own thread.

Funniest fucking thing I've seen in a long time.

For those who don't know the story, Riordian joked around with this little girl, and said her name, "Isis", meant "dirty, stupid girl".

All the (chiefly black) activists in LA got revved up to hold big protests about this - until they found out the little girl he said this to was white.

Gold.

Oh, right, the ACLU thing - seeing as they just lost the pledge case, they have a solid chance of losing this one as well. And rightly so.

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/7_sig.gif" width="300" height="100">
<br>
<br>
Don't blame me....I voted for Kodos.
I look forward to an orderly election that will eliminate the need for a violent bloodbath. </center>

[TheMojoPin]

Actually, there are still parents groups going after this guy for being such a schmuck, and rightly so.

In what context is it EVER sensible for a politician to say such a thing? Whatta dope.

Oh, right, the ACLU thing - seeing as they just lost the pledge case, they have a solid chance of losing this one as well. And rightly so.

Yeah, but it would be just as "right" if they won, too. That's the great thing about this country, isn't it?

There was a case in Florida last year where the ACLU wanted to sue a public school teacher because she wore a cross. The ACLU flip flops on things like this.

WF, for the THIRD time, a case like THAT has NOTHING to do with a STUDENT and their religious practices. You're trying to compare apples and hand grenades.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 7-10-04 @ 11:24 AM

[Yerdaddy]

Oh, right, the ACLU thing - seeing as they just lost the pledge case, they have a solid chance of losing this one as well. And rightly so.

Wrong as usual. He lost on the technicality that he didn't have full custody of the child and thus the right to represent her interests in court. So because itwasn't decided on the the church/state issue the outcome of that case says nothing about the outcome of this one.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.