10 Years Without Kurt

[JustJon]

Ten years ago today, Courtney Love drove Kurt Cobain to blow his brains out. Like him or hate him, his music changed the landscape of popular music, initially for the better. But I still blame him for Creed, Nickleback and the other crappy bands we're stuck with now.

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[ChickenHawk]

Eh... whatever.

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[cheezeemee]

Nirvana did nothing for me. Negative Creep is the only song I like. They mad that song before they sold out err got famous. The only reason he killed himself was because he knew Axl Rose was going to kick his ass. Listen to Bloodbath. They're the future of music.

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[schmega]

But I still blame him for Creed, Nickleback and the other crappy bands we're stuck with now.

thats unjust jon. the only way kurt was responsible is that those collective bunch of losers heard nirvana, liked it, picked up guitars, and created shit. with their complete lack of skill or talent, they managed to play something that sounded remotely like what they heard, but nowhere near as good, and we arrive to where we are today. but even more so, the only reason the creeds and nicklebacks of the world exist is because of some record company douchebag pushing this shit onto the public, NOT because of kurt. you could arguably blame the beatles too.

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[KERMIT]

Please Axel could not carry Kurts Jock strap stop embaressing yourself.

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[Furtherman]

I remember the day when they found his body. I liked Nirvana and I was bummed. Now, I just see him as an idiot, albeit talented, who took the cowards way out and killed himself.

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...with thanks to JustJon

[Jennitalia]

I loved Nirvana. Too bad Courtney wasn't the one to kill herself. What a waste of space she is.

But at least we still have Dave Grohl.

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[grlNIN]

It's not tragic when someone puts a bullet in their own head.


It's just stupid.

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[Doogie]

Like him or hate him, his music changed the landscape of popular music


As much as I think that Nirvana were good, I really never thought them great. And do feel they are one of the overhyped things in music history. And we have also discovered the true talent in Nirvana was actually Dave Grohl. Rolling Stone finally did some justice to people who are always overlooked on "Top 50 blah blah artists..." by putting Chuck Berry in the top 10, and thankfully NOT Nirvana.

I feel that if it had been someother 'Seattle Band' we all had seen on MTV first, we would be screaming that they were the revolution today. It wasnt a matter of actual music, but rather timing that make us think of Nirvana. And Kurt's death helped to cement peoples minds that they are among the "best band ever" praises.

I was a high school senior when he decided they needed a dentist to identify his body. And what drove me crazy the day that he died, was that someone actually used the fucking term hero to describe him. And I remember tearing that person an asshole for even uttering that term for a celebrity. Especially one so much a coward that he choose the easy way out. Hopefully recent events in the world has helped to straighten out that person's perspective of the term hero, but that is a debate for another time. The point is Nirvana was a good band, but no need to go crazy on the ranking systems...

I would say what happened to John Lennon was a tragedy...what happened to Kurt was just a stupid selfish act. Fin.

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This message was edited by Doogie76 on 4-5-04 @ 1:44 PM

[Iamnotatool]

Please Axel could not carry Kurts Jock strap stop embaressing yourself.


That spelling of embarassing is embarassing. Plus, Axel's voice was top notch in their day. Kurt was ok, but like anyone, when you die, you become 10 times more important. (See Tupac, Biggie, Michael Hutchence, Kurt, Lennon, Morrison etc...)

No biggie. Courtney's kinda fun. Maybe Kurt was out of stuff to play? Maybe he was just lazy.

In any case, its a good thing he offed himself. Suicide is God's own natural selection. Survival of the fittest.

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[Furtherman]

Michael Hutchence?

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...with thanks to JustJon

[Freakshow]

Lead singer for INXS.



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[DC Reed]

Dave Ghrol is the unsung hero of Nirvana, and when you look at how everything turned out, Krist Novoselic went nowhere, and now is in politics. Kurt could have gone solo no problem, he was working with Micheal Stipe before his suicide.

I'll be sadder when Dave dies.

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[curtoid]

:|

This message was edited by curtoid on 3-8-05 @ 7:27 AM

[Furtherman]

Lead singer for INXS.


No shit. I'm questioning his involvement in the "10 times more important" list.

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...with thanks to JustJon

[Freakshow]

Krist Novoselic came around last year in a new band--Eyes Adrift. It's him, Curt Kirkwood from the Meat Puppets and Bud Gaugh from Sublime.

They are all pretty set in their lives, so it was just them having fun playing and making music. I think they put out a CD. Sounded a lot like the Meat Puppets, but that's probably because Kurt did most of the singing.


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[Freakshow]

No shit. I'm questioning his involvement in the "10 times more important" list.



Sorry. I misunderstood your post.

I actaully agree with you that there has been almost no increase in his perceived influence on music since his death--he doesn't really belong with those others listed.



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[DC Reed]

Eyes Adrift broke up already, and now krist works in Seattle doing work for anti-censorship lobbyists.


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[Teenweek]

It's not tragic when someone puts a bullet in their own head.




It is when you are married to Courteney Love

[angrymissy]

god im getting old... i cant believe that was 10 years ago

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[JustJon]

I feel that if it had been someother 'Seattle Band' we all had seen on MTV first, we would be screaming that they were the revolution today. It wasnt a matter of actual music, but rather timing that make us think of Nirvana. And Kurt's death helped to cement peoples minds that they are among the "best band ever" praises.
I totally agree. A month later and Pearl Jam would be the band that people said changed popular music. It had gotten to the point where you had Paula Abdul or worn out 80's hair bands.

Kurt was ready to break up Nirvana anyway. He'd had enough and was starting to explore other things. Hole might have ended up being Kurt's next band, instead of Courtney's.

And yes, I did say certain things about to incite a few discussions. :eg:

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[Heavy]

i thought he went in 93, but ok.

Listen theres other bands in Nirvanas brand of song, but i cant stand any of them and I love Nirvana. Meaning their the best that have done that type of music. Theres really no way anybody couldve listened to most of their songs and thought the general public would like it, but they put it out and people that never listened to a hard non pop song in their life loved it, so take that all you haters, Dive!! Aneurysm!! Moist Vagina!!!! Thank for keeping it real Kurt!

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[curtoid]

A month later and Pearl Jam would be the band that people said changed popular music

100% disagree; while Pearl Jam might have been able to succeed without Nirvana before them, I can't see the complete shift that took place after "Teen Spirit" hit without "Teen Spirit," regardless of the mood in the country.

Nirvana did in the 1990s what Michael Jackson did in the 1980s, and what no other artist has been able to do since.



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[Iamnotatool]

[quote]
No shit. I'm questioning his involvement in the "10 times more important" list.



Sorry. I misunderstood your post.

I actaully agree with you that there has been almost no increase in his perceived influence on music since his death--he doesn't really belong with those others listed.
[quote][quote]

Suck my ass, so I had one wrong. INXS will always suck. Take out Michael Hutchence, and add every artist from Michaelangelo's era.

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[peacefrog081]

"Nirvana did in the 1990s what Michael Jackson did in the 1980s, and what no other artist has been able to do since"

this quote has made me curious. Does anyone think there has been an artist in the '00s that has had a similar impact that michael jackson did in the 80s and nirvana in the 90s

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[mikeyboy]

this quote has made me curious. Does anyone think there has been an artist in the '00s that has had a similar impact that michael jackson did in the 80s and nirvana in the 90s


Nope.

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[Arienette]

i was never a huge nirvana fan, but i was still sad when i heard that he had killed himself. nirvana was a very important part of music culture and history at that time. and, even though i always preferred most of the other grunge bands to them, i can appreciate what they meant to music. it's kind of like how i feel about bob dylan - i don't like his music, but he was huge culturally.

and as far as whether or not we should have sympathy for those who commit suicide, well... while they may not deserve it for actually killing themselves, i can at least feel empathy for anyone who feels so depressed and hopeless that they think suicide is the only escape. it may be a cowardly move, but it's still sad when a talented person (or any person, for that matter) feels that they would rather just not go on.

<center><img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/aricheat.gif" height=100 width=300</img><br>i think i had better find some disbelief to suspend<br>'cause i don't wanna feel like this again </center>

[Tall_James]

it may be a cowardly move, but it's still sad when a talented person (or any person, for that matter) feels that they would rather just not go on.

It is only cowardly when you do it and have a baby daughter who will have to live with this for the rest of her life. He may have been a great musician but he was a piece a shit father.


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[Arienette]

It is only cowardly when you do it and have a baby daughter who will have to live with this for the rest of her life. He may have been a great musician but he was a piece a shit father.i agree with you, james. and not only that, he did so knowing that he'd be leaving his child in the care of courtney love. that's gotta be child abuse.

<center><img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/aricheat.gif" height=100 width=300</img><br>i think i had better find some disbelief to suspend<br>'cause i don't wanna feel like this again </center>

[Iamnotatool]

Suicide is the most selfish act one can commit. The only ones that hurt are those that care about the pussy killing himself.

My grandfather hung himself and my mother had the pleasure of holding him up as they cut him off the pipe he was dangling from.

You think she ever recovered?

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[DeltaPin]

I liked Nevermind. Didn't really care for their work after it.

It's sad he killed himself, but had he lived I think Nirvana would have just faded away and Kurt would never have gotten the icon status that he now has.

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[grlNIN]

this quote has made me curious. Does anyone think there has been an artist in the '00s that has had a similar impact that michael jackson did in the 80s and nirvana in the 90s



Nickelback!

TFF!


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[DarkHippie]

this quote has made me curious. Does anyone think there has been an artist in the '00s that has had a similar impact that michael jackson did in the 80s and nirvana in the 90s

Brittany Spears :(

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[peacefrog081]

thats scary if britney spears and nickelback are making an impact on the 00's


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[DeltaPin]

William Hung?

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[Freakshow]

I think "Aneurysm", the b-side of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is a good example of what it will sound like. And on the CD there is also an extra track that most people don't know about. After the 12th song there's ten minutes of silence and then the 13th song comes on. It sounds like an abortion. Very noisy. That's also a good example of what our next album is going to sound like.


Goddamn he was a funny bastard.

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This message was edited by Freakshow on 4-5-04 @ 6:18 PM

[badorties]

this quote has made me curious. Does anyone think there has been an artist in the '00s that has had a similar impact that michael jackson did in the 80s and nirvana in the 90s


i think after nevermind, the next huge trend setting artist was

http://www.rumba.fi/lista/hittinimet/hanson.gif

'hmm bob' proved that teeny-bop pop was still a viable commodity ....


then the dark lord of satan realized that marketing and formulatic pop was a very, very profitable commodity

http://billytweedie.tripod.com/6/people/lou/lou.jpg


then orlando became the new seattle, begatting:

http://www.getreal2000.co.uk/backstreet.jpg

http://www.channel955.com/timages/page/britney-xtinakiss.jpg

http://www.asdivas.hpg2.ig.com.br/vmas/fotos/nsync.jpg


couple this with the radio industry being run by two huge megacorporations that seem to care more about the bottom line than nuturing a music scene, this is the 00's kurt:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/gallery/grammy2001/nominees/fred-durst-arrival.jpg

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[cheezeemee]

Nirvana did in the 1990s what Michael Jackson did in the 1980s, and what no other artist has been able to do since.

MTV made them great.
Osama will be the next big hit.
I hope I get shot and dragged through the streets of Iraq. Hang me from the bridge GODDAMIT!

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[TheMojoPin]

I think Nirvana was overrated, but I still enjoy the fuck out of listening to their albums. "In Utero" is on my list of "perfect albums."

Musically, yes, overrated...but influence-wise, you simply can't ignore them. And if they hadn't existed, no other "Seattle group" would have had the same impact. Yes, the musical focus was already shifting towards bands like that, but Nirvana became the focal point for a reason...Kurt knew pop and Kurt knew punk, period. Listen to most of the other Seattle groups and they sound directly rooted in the "metal" sound...Nirvana was punk, "speed metal" and the Beatles in the first half of their career all rolled into one. In terms of structuring the songs themselves in this way? Yes, the man was a genius.

But killing himself is just despicable. Especially since he had a daughter.

And anyone still buying the ridiculous "Courtney killed him" theory just needs to look at her recent behavior. You think someone THAT whacked up and smacked out could have covered up the murder of her own husband by her own hand? Please.

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[DC Reed]

Kurt's influence is being drowned out because the very people that claim he is thier hero, are the ones ruining the word grunge. (Nickelback, Creed, Puddle of Mudd. etc...) Until Fred Durst dies, we will have to live with a tattoo of kurt's face on his body. Hell Exists.

Kurt's greatest accomplishment was roughing up McCartney and Lennon style lyrics with noisy, fast, punk roots. Not inspiring a generation of artists.

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[TheMojoPin]

There are still plenty of bands out there that directly reflect the atmosphere Nirvana brought about...they may not be HUGE, but bands like, say, Interpol can still get decent play and signed to a big label/distributor because Nirvana opened up that "world"...so while Interpol doesn't SOUND like Nirvana, Nirvana made it possible for us to see a band like Interpol on MTV or hear them on the radio, even if only every so often.

And all those meathead bands love to namedrop Nirvana, but they all sound like bastardized Alice In Chains. Go figure.

And Nirvana can still smack some sense into MTV...MTV had a new special on Nirvana today, and at the end they were talking about bands like Nickleback or Creed and Limp Bizkit claiming to be inspired by Nirvana, and MTV basically had to come out and admit these bands sucked. So even ten years later, whether you like the music or not, Nirvana is still forcing MTV to turn on the "easy" music.

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[JustJon]

and MTV basically had to come out and admit these bands sucked.
That's funny, I'm sorry I missed that.

And in 10-20 years, people will look back and remember Nirvana. These other bands will be long forgotten and the world will be a better place for it.

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[FMJeff]

People are looking back now...

And how do you get Nickleback and Creed from Nirvana...do you think maybe they had other influences? They're not even the same style of music....

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It made my heart sing.

[TheMojoPin]

No, THOSE bands themselves are saying they were influenced by Nirvana.

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[cheezeemee]

And anyone still buying the ridiculous "Courtney killed him" theory just needs to look at her recent behavior. You think someone THAT whacked up and smacked out could have covered up the murder of her own husband by her own hand? Please.



Obviously you've never seen The Usual Suspects (Kevin Spacey's character could pass for smacked out) or Primal Fear (Ed Norton's character could pass for whacked up). lol noob.

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[Mike Teacher]

It's not tragic when someone puts a bullet in their own head.


Tell that to the widows, widowers, now father-less or mother-less kids; the shattered families, and anyone involved in what is by definition a tragedy.


It is only cowardly when you do it and have a baby daughter who will have to live with this for the rest of her life. He may have been a great musician but he was a piece a shit father.


it amazes me that this even has to be said, TJ. I dont have kids, but holding my brother's? the truth needs no question.

As for a great musician: See Dave Grohl

For the Martyred short-time founder, and then figurehead of a movement: See Kurt

edit: As for continuing influence in music; looking at what charts, fills the sheds, and plays on radio these days; minimal.



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This message was edited by Mike Teacher on 4-6-04 @ 12:40 PM

[East Side Dave]

Nirvana = One of the Best Bands Ever

Poo on the rest of you!!!!!!

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[Arienette]

am i the only one who can't stand dave grohl?

<center><img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/aricheat.gif" height=100 width=300</img><br>i think i had better find some disbelief to suspend<br>'cause i don't wanna feel like this again </center>

[FMJeff]

No, THOSE bands themselves are saying they were influenced by Nirvana.


They did? That's awful...I certainly don't hear it in thier music...

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<br>
It made my heart sing.

[TheMojoPin]

Exactly.

And Mike, the influence is there, but like I said, it's BEYOND the music. I just watched videos by The Stills and The Yeah Yeah Yeahs on MTV,...two bands who would NOT be shown if it weren't for Nirvana. Nirvana was a very good band...and that's it. But they were the right band at the right time and they made it so OTHER bands that are kinda "left of center" from the strictly dictated world of music television and radio can get some play, even if is just a little.

Grohl IS a much better musician than Cobain, but it's ludicrous people are now trying to somehow give him credit for "making" Nirvana.

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Jack_Doff]

The picture that really bothers me is the one where most of it is obscured by a cabinet and all you can see is his sneaker and leg sticking out from behind the cabinet. I guess just thinking about what there is in the picture that we don't see bothers me more than pictures I've seen of people shot or being shot. I guess there is still something to be said for imagination.

I liked the band, realize how important they were for music but still think suicide's for p*ssies.

[Furtherman]

http://bhs.broo.k12.wv.us/homepage/home2002/aglykas/kurt-cobain.jpg

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[Jack_Doff]

Yeah, thanks. The picture I remember was from a slightly different angle without the person there, but that's just about it.

[bigbaldirish]

alright really, i'm sick of nirvana.
let the guy be dead, he didn't want to be a rockstar, and i'm sure if he could look down and see what kind "legend" he has become, he would spit on all that thought he was a legend.
he was a poet (great), guitarist(mediocre) singer(not terrible) and songwriter (good).

and he killed himself, to escape all this rock star fantasy (amongst other pains in his life) so grant the man his final wish, and let him rest in peace.

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[Mike Teacher]

And Mike, the influence is there, but like I said, it's BEYOND the music. I just watched videos by The Stills and The Yeah Yeah Yeahs on MTV,...two bands who would NOT be shown if it weren't for Nirvana.


Oh, there is no doubt as to the stamp that Nirvana put on the musical landscape; the music is much more complex and refined then many might think, and any comparison to Foo Fighters; you might as well compare them to Wang Chung. Utterly different bands.

My first teaching gig was 1992-1995; so ten years ago I was in the classrooms trying to explain to some of my students why the guy who was on every shirt; book cover; decal, whatever; had eaten a 12-guage.

So I have a 'weird' perspective in that my appreciation of Nirvana. Weird days, i can tell ya that. some of those kids were pretty freaked.

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[grlNIN]

It's not tragic when someone puts a bullet in their own head.


Tell that to the widows, widowers, now father-less or mother-less kids; the shattered families, and anyone involved in what is by definition a tragedy.
[/quote]


Yes, my heart goes out to them, i was more leaning towards the the fact that when someone commits suicide everyone suddenly acts like the person was "beautiful" and "honest", pretty much saving face because they don't want to be the asshole that said the person was a "selfish fuck".

You sound a little defensive towards the fact, i've had someone close to me commit suicide, amongst other various classmates whom O.D'd on herion.

Nothing is glamorous about destroying yourself, whether it be with a single bullet to the head or a million needles in your arm.

It's not tragic that the person ended their own life, it's not like anyone else was in control of it. However it is sad that they're exposing their loved ones to such an ugly thing.


<center><img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=ninny">
<br>Daddy's little girl ain't a girl no more</center>

[JustJon]

alright really, i'm sick of nirvana.
let the guy be dead, he didn't want to be a rockstar, and i'm sure if he could look down and see what kind "legend" he has become, he would spit on all that thought he was a legend.
he was a poet (great), guitarist(mediocre) singer(not terrible) and songwriter (good).

and he killed himself, to escape all this rock star fantasy (amongst other pains in his life) so grant the man his final wish, and let him rest in peace.
And yet the money grubing whore released his private journals in a handsome hard bound coffee table book, the perfect gift for the holidays.

<img src="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/bans/rfjustjon11.gif"><BR><A href="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com">Chaotic Concepts</a>

[serVice]

And anyone still buying the ridiculous "Courtney killed him" theory just needs to look at her recent behavior. You think someone THAT whacked up and smacked out could have covered up the murder of her own husband by her own hand? Please.

It doesn't take a lot, what ever the amount of cracked out a person it, to pay someone to kill someone. Lets not forget the docu. that was put out that had some white trash guy stating on camera that he was approached, by courtney, with money in hand to kill kurt.

2. Everybody that has mentioned, time and time again, how suicide just makes a person worthless, etc. Its not as though these people that kill themselves are doing it as a way of getting back at someone or something that selfish and thoughtless; we're talking about people that have some real fucking problems, and even after getting help, see no other way of dealing with the pain other than ending it. Theres really not that much of a difference than them and an old person with a debilitating disease doing it to end their pain. Years ago, an old blind man in my old building, jumped from his window, after finding out he had terminal cancer, because he didn't want to be a burden on his family in the twilight of his life. Now is that a selfish act? The only real difference between that act and someone like kurt doing it is that his pain, not including any medical conditions, came directly from his own head, theres almost nothing to escape a pain that comes from your own head, it doesn't go away, therapy, drugs, etc. can be all well and good, but its still there, theres no escape from your own brain, short of lobotomy. If the pain these people feel is that deep and dehumanizing and without escape, then why is that such a selfish act and cowardly. Go and find someone that grew up with a parent that was mentally tortured and see what they say about how it was growing up with them. Would it rather be right to inflict years of that much torment on an outside person than to seek an out to your own personal torture.

3. Lets face it, Nirvana's "historical" status comes only from the fact that they are gone. Had he been alive now or in the future, we'd probably be seeing Nirvana caskets and nirvana conventions with people getting married by the original drummer. Or people would be waiting 10+ years waiting for a new album from kurt after the rest of the band left and he has some guy with a bucket on his head playing guitar. It doesn't seem far fetched to me to think that had kurt stayed alive he'd have ended up being the current incarnation of Gene Simmons or Axl Rose.

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Thanks to the great Monsterone.