None of the above

[serVice]

i've been thinking about this for a while now, and think it might work. i know its a rip- off of a good richard pryor/ john candy movie, but it can make sense.
With the next election being the presidential one, and a lot of people dissatisfied with the current president, and the democratic party currently running around with their eyes closed trying to play to the kids for votes. And the counter- culture looking for a change by espousing the idea of voting for a third party, so that the goverment sees peoples dislike of the system in its current state, not usually because the ideas are right. i think i have an idea, vote "none of the above." Now, granted, the idea is gleamed from the movie Brewsters Millions, i don't see any reason why it can't work.
Wasn't it in the last presidential election that there was a slight upheaval that the voting for Nader took ones away from the Bush/Gore mess. And i remember seeing kids running around all proud because they did their part by showing their dissatisfaction by throwing their vote away on a third party. Thats not showing dissatisfaction, all that is is throwing support behind the unelectable.
Well, what better way to show dissatisfaction, then by a televised boycott. If you're going to throw away a vote, and you want your displeasure shown, why do it the wrong way.
Whats the voting percentage nowadays? People don't care, for the most part, we've seen what amounts to the realization that you're vote doesn't count, and on the other side voting for the most part, has turned into nothing more than picking the lesser of 2 evils, and for that, people have no interest interest in voting.
Instead of staying home and taking no part, show them what you really think. If you really dislike the current state of things, why not show them just that.
You can write in a vote. Do just that; they get counted along with anything else. Just take a write in vote, and choose, "none of the above."
Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Besides that fact that its long.

"get yo'self an ugly bitch. Yo, she'll never leave you" overheard from a crack dealer on my street. The secret of the universe.

[DJEvelEd]

I've voted Libertarian since 1988 with the hope that they'll get enough votes to get those "Matching Federal Funds".

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[Freakshow]

I love that movie. If it's ever on, I have to sit and watch it until then end.




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<br> Some folk'll never lose a toe...

[TheMojoPin]

"None of the above" should be an actual option on the ballot. If it gets the majority, the voting must be re-done in, say, 4-6 months' time, so the candidates can attempt to "fix" their running platforms or the parties can put up new candidates all together.

Or maybe this is the part of me that's just sick of every presedential election in my lifetime being between two unelectable mutts.


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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[high fly]

I liked how President Bush heartily thanked the Nader supporters and sent them a keg of non alcoholic beer...



Lotta good that vote did.
Way to go, geniuses, you really sent a "message" to Washington...











Anybody heard if Pat Paulsen's running again?
Just wondering...




" and they ask me why I drink"

This message was edited by high fly on 12-29-03 @ 4:02 PM

[mikeyboy]

Not to derail to much, but when did "Brewster's Millions" become a good movie?

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[high fly]

Brewster Buffalo----crappy airplane.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[serVice]

i've been talking to a couple of people, and liking this idea more and more.
People are telling me, when they tried to register to vote they were told they HAVE to pick a party; one or the other. Fuck that.
All the people that hate voting, this is the way to get them back.


"None of the above" should be an actual option on the ballot. If it gets the majority, the voting must be re-done in, say, 4-6 months' time, so the candidates can attempt to "fix" their running platforms or the parties can put up new candidates all together.

It doesn't even have to have a solution to the problem, most platforms are dictated by focus groups and the parties anyway, any new candidate would share mostly similar platforms as before, or as has happened before, the ideas would conveniently slip from the minds of those elected, and something else would take precedent over the ideas. If theres a message sent this way, maybe something wholly different can be accomplished.


Or maybe this is the part of me that's just sick of every presedential election in my lifetime being between two unelectable mutts.

This is the part of elections that make people weary of voting in the first place, nowadays. Voting "none of the above" is like an active boycott, it'll tell "those fat- cats in washington" (i've always wanted to validily use that phrase) that something needs fixing, and a majority of the people think so.


I liked how President Bush heartily thanked the Nader supporters and sent them a keg of non alcoholic beer...

Lotta good that vote did.
Way to go, geniuses, you really sent a "message" to Washington...

See, this is what i'm talking about, by throwing your support behind someone you don't even believe in, just to disrupt things, you're just getting in the way. In reality, you are no better than those kids at the protests that are there just to destroy things, the kids that rioted in Seattle back a few years ago, and didn't even really know what the protesting was for. Voting for a third party, just to send a message, is like boycotting Kentucky Fried Chicken (because you have something against the way they handle chickens) and going to Taco Bell instead.

i've got Rembrandt as my right hand and Solo as my pilot.
Greedo died by the hand of Solo.

[Heather 8]

Anybody heard if Pat Paulsen's running again?
Just wondering...


If dead people can vote, then I guess they can run for prez too.

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If Dean's the Dem's choice, then Pat's got my vote.

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This message was edited by Peachy on 12-29-03 @ 10:53 PM

[TheMojoPin]

See, this is what i'm talking about, by throwing your support behind someone you don't even believe in, just to disrupt things, you're just getting in the way.

What about those of us that voted for Nader because we wanted the Green party to get more attention/federal funding?

Again, why is the talk like it would be OK for me to vote for someone that I don't believe in as long as YOU (Or maybe not...but the Gore supporters/Democratic sheep) you believe in them? Doesn't seem very fair to me and my vote for MYSELF.


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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[serVice]

What about those of us that voted for Nader because we wanted the Green party to get more attention/federal funding?

That was why i addressed it as "someone you don't even believe in." If you are voting for them purposefully, with a rational reason, them go for it; but i was just directing it towards the people that were voting this way strictly to not vote the other way.



Again, why is the talk like it would be OK for me to vote for someone that I don't believe in as long as YOU (Or maybe not...but the Gore supporters/Democratic sheep) you believe in them? Doesn't seem very fair to me and my vote for MYSELF.

i'm not exactly sure what you meant there, i'm sorry. But, i'm not telling anyone to vote for my choices, because i said so, i'm trying to give people another choice in the matter. i'm tryingto show people that there are other ways to show disdain towards things then voting third party strictly because you don't like the other 2, and not because you believe in the platforms tha they put forth. Also, with people showing so much apathy towards the electoral process i figured i would show people a way that would work better and send more of a message than just mere stay-homesmanship.

i've got Rembrandt as my right hand and Solo as my pilot.
"Yes! Hurrah for the Revolution! Always! In spite of all! But me, I am no dupe, I have never been a dupe. I cry Hurrah for the Republic the way I would cry Hurrah for Destruction! Hurrah for Expiation! Hurrah for Punishment! Hurrah for Death!".

This message was edited by serVice on 12-30-03 @ 9:35 PM

[TheMojoPin]

i'm not exactly sure what you meant there, i'm sorry.

No need for apologies. You weren't doing what I was saying...there are just many Democrats (Or Democratic voters) around, and some here, that never miss a chance to bemoan Nader/3rd party voters who didn't automatically vote for Gore, no matter if they didn't believe in/support him one iota.


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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[MizzleTizzle]

with people showing so much apathy towards the electoral process


Is Democracy mathematically unsound?

This is what some say of this, or any other election process where there are three viable candidates; even if by viable one might only be expected to get, say, 10% of the vote.

Point is; there is a part of math called Game Theory, and it has nothing to do with 'games' like mousetrap and operation, the goofy game for dopey doctors. Anywho game theory deals with conflict, whether it's politics, businesses, wars, etc. "Hello Joshua" and all that; that guy in "War Games" is an amalgalm of people, but perhaps mostly John Von Nuemann, look him up; unreal math genius tic-tac-toe as nuclear war; he was that guy, who wrote of war as 'Games', meaning there might be a specific set of rules that dictate the best move [like in tic-tac-toe]

Kenneth Arrow published a paper in 1951 which blew away the geeks, and a few others. He gave a very convincing arguement that 'any conceivable democratic voting system can yield undemocratic results.' He called it the impossibility theorum, since it showed 'in effect, that perfect democracy is impossible' and won the Nobel in economics in '72.

Example, and I suck at this, so...

Imagine the Green Party peeps; they vote for Nader, right? cool. Let's say we know going into election night 2000, Nader expects 10% of the vote, tops.

Now; Is there a scenario where a person might wish to vote for a person OTHER then who they wish to get elected, in order that the result is such that, out of the three candidates, the Nader person might still be satisfied with the outcome.

Let's say the Green Party, all of them and this is a hypothetical, but let's say ALL of them ranked the candidates this way:

1. Nader
2. Gore
3. Bush

Just a total assumption.

Now, it's election night, and you and your Nader buddies are hanging out, and one of you says:

"Hey, you know what happened with Perot right? Took all those votes away? Well, this one might be close, within the 10% they say Nader should get. What if it's really close between Gore and Bush, like they say it might be?"

Scenario 1: All Green Party People vote for Nader.

Result:

1. Bush [wins]
2. Gore
3. Nader

Scenario 2: All Green Party people say, Now, we KNOW Nader aint winning, so if we vote for our 2nd 'choice'; meaning ALL Greens agree to vote for Gore.

NOW LETS FORGET THE FUCKING SUPREME COURT DECISION AND SHIT AND PRETEND...

If the Bush/Gore votes were close enough, lets say 51%-49%, if ALL The Greens vited for Gore:

1. Gore [wins]
2. Bush
3. Nader

This must be making zero sense. But what we have here is a situation where; if all of the Hypotheticals were correct:

A Green Vote for NADER means Bush, the Green party's Least 'Favorite' gets elected. A Green Vote for Gore gets Gore Elected.

Don't trust me, get:

"Archimedes' Revenge" by Paul Hoffman.

[TheMojoPin]

So?

If someone honestly ranked the candidates that way, fine. But if they're like me, and have absolutely NO desire to Gore president any more than Bush, it's moot. I'm just sick of all the Nader voters getting lumped together like we SHOULD have voted for Gore.

Gore fucked it up. The dink couldn't carry his home state, or that of the incumbent president. Recount, Supreme Court, hanging chads, NOTHING. The guy was a loser, and got it in the end. Good riddance.


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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TooCute]

SThe guy was a loser, and got it in the end. Good riddance.


but thank god he invented the internet.

<img src="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/bans/toocute3.gif">

[Snoogans]

pat buchannon or ralph nader

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Thanks Fluff
The BCS is a fuckin crock of shit
The Heisman voters have about as much knowledge of things as dexter manly had ability to read
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[curtoid]

but thank god he invented the internet.


Al Gore Never Said He Invented The Internet! (http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,39301,00.html)

All he said was that he was one of the first politicians "to realize that those bearded, bespectacled researchers were busy crafting something that could, just maybe, become pretty important." Which he was.

pat buchannon or ralph nader

Well, let's see - one is the Republican's wet dream because he destroyed Perot's Reform Party, and the other is the Republican's wet dream because he skimmed votes away from Gore?

Hmmmmm...

They are both hideous - they both hijacked legit 3rd parties in order to boost themselves - and they were both against the Iraqi war?

Tough call there...will have to get back to you.


[KOP]

Today's terror alert brought to you by...
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"Resist despair"

[Se7en]

but thank god he invented the internet.


Al Gore Never Said He Invented The Internet! (http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,39301,00.html)

All he said was that he was one of the first politicians "to realize that those bearded, bespectacled researchers were busy crafting something that could, just maybe, become pretty important." Which he was.

Learn to appreciate sarcasm.

What about those of us that voted for Nader because we wanted the Green party to get more attention/federal funding?


[Liberal voter] Why, you've just thrown your vote away! [/Liberal voter]

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[TheMojoPin]

They are both hideous - they both hijacked legit 3rd parties in order to boost themselves


You gotta be kidding me.

Is this in opposition to the naturally altruistic and, of course, not self-serving candidates currently seeking the Democratic nomination?

Oh, wait, of course not. This is the real world.

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[high fly]

Mojo, I'm not sure if I understand. Are you saying that Bush is just as good or just as bad, to a Nader voter, as Gore?

" and they ask me why I drink"




This message was edited by high fly on 1-10-04 @ 10:26 AM

[TheMojoPin]

To me as a Nader voter? I see little to no difference between Gore and Bush. They're on either sides of the fence, but still back to back. If pressed, I guess I'd give Gore and "F+" to Bush's "F". But that still makes him a failure. Why in God's name would I vote for a man I have absolutely no desire to support, nor any faith in? I have no qualms about who I voted for. I would've been just as happy seeing Bush lose as I did with Gore. It was lose-lose for the entire country.

And as to my other response...how did Nader and Buchannon "hijack their parties for personal gain" any more than ANY candidate the Democrats or Republicans have proped up in the last 30 years? It's a red herring argument, and just ye olde usual sour grapes from Democrats.

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[curtoid]

se7en: I got the sarcassm; I just decided to move past it.

how did Nader and Buchannon "hijack their parties for personal gain" any more than ANY candidate the Democrats or Republicans have proped up in the last 30 years?

Nader (and supporters like Michael Moore, and Ani Difranco) had more to gain with a Republican in the White House again than he/they did with another 4-8 years of democrats. He remains a charlitan, and the Greens (privately) realize that, which is why if he tries to disrupt things again in 2004, he won't have their support, because they don't want to see happen to them with what happened with the Reform Party in '00 when Buchanan took over a party he had no belief in and ruined their chances of ever being viable again.

And yes...someone could make the argument that Dean has hi-jacked the current Democratic party, trying to loosen the importance the Clintons have.

It's a red herring argument, and just ye olde usual sour grapes from Democrats.


Since I'm a Registered Republican, I guess you are talking about someone else - speaking of which, both of those points you questioned were points that were first made to me by a prominant Virginia Conservative Republican right after the 2001 Innauguration, and I've only heard them echoed in my GOP circles.

The 2000 Nader supporters just need to get over the fact that many will always view them as helping elect George Bush - even if 2/3 of the Nader voters in Florida hadn't voted at all in 2000, the 1/3 that everyone concede would have voted for Gore would have been more than enough right there to win him the state, and the election.

Was that the only thing that cost the election? No - he lost Tennessee, which he shouldn't have; he underestimated Bush during the debates (something Bush played perfectly - "I'm just a dumb guy, so set yer sites low!"); Lieberman was a crummy choice; he was handcuffed with how to treat the Bill Clinton issue from the day the FBI said that stain on her dress was his - and yet, he still won the popular vote, and many believe he still won Florida (Unprecedented - 2000 Presidential Election (2002) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000096I8G/qid=1073920306//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl74/104-2604303-4997503?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846)).

Nader was one more brick in the wall.



[KOP]

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"Resist despair"

This message was edited by KOP on 1-12-04 @ 10:18 AM

[Yerdaddy]

In Australia you get fined for not voting, like $50. They get about 95% voter participation.

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TEAR THE BITCH APART!

[TheMojoPin]

The 2000 Nader supporters just need to get over the fact that many will always view them as helping elect George Bush

Good.

He remains a charlitan

You're constantly vague about this. Are you saying the man's entire life's work is the work of a charlatan, or just his run for president?

I didn't think for a minute he could be president, and it sure as hell didn't seem like he or the Greens did, either. They continually stated they wanted the voting percentage to receive federal funding for the Green Party. Nader himself only became THE issue when Democrats couldn't shut up about him in the desperate hopes to ignore/hide how badly THEIR boy screwed the pooch.

If your point is the guy used the whole thing as an opportunity to prop himself (And by default, the agendas/causes he pursues) up, I don't see what you're "exposing."

I have no delusions like thinking he's some kind of saintly, do-no-wrong figure. I did not think he would be, nor wanted him to be president. I wanted his party to hopefully get the funding and force the Democrats to act more like Democrats.

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-12-04 @ 6:00 PM

[high fly]

This whole thread has me just filled with loathing...

" and they ask me why I drink"

[A.J.]

In Australia you get fined for not voting, like $50. They get about 95% voter participation.


I like that.

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[CaptClown]

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[serVice]

i don't understand why this idea has been passed over and left behind as being a worthless idea. This is something that would actually show that there is a problem and its something that needs to be changed.

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