Have democrats become nutbars?

[Reephdweller]

There's a story in the Washington Times that talks about the many claims and conspiracy theories that the democrats have been making lately.

the story... (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20031217-115113-2173r.htm)

Most notably is the recent comments by Madeline Albright made off the air suggesting that the white house knows where Bin Laden is and is holding off on getting him until it is politically expediant and beneficial to Bush's re-election campaign.

Now, while I don't discount all the accusations made, I do have to wonder if the democrats in their bloodthirst to reclaim the white house have gone off the deep end and are grasping at straws to try and beat Bush.

I think there's plenty of issues and policies that the democrats could go after Bush and his record on, but instead they go for all these crazy theories.

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[high fly]

The Clark campaign hands out Clark Bars.

You see, his name is Clark.........oh, you get it.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Snoogans]

*stands up and clears throat* i shot kennedy

*sits back down*

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[HBox]

That Albright thing is stupid on SO MANY LEVELS. First and foremost, that she would say something like that in the first place. At least she was smart enough to not say it on air. But she was stupid enough to say it in a Fox News green room. And now I'm supposed to take the word of a bunch of Fox News employees that she was serious? AND WHY THE FUCK IS THIS NEWS!?!?! It's an off hand comment in a fucking waiting room! But I'd expect no less from Fox News.

Dean's comment, on the other hand, is just stupid. But hey, this 9/11 news story gives him a little more credibility. Still stupid, however.

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[high fly]

I think Albright is too smart to say such a thing.
This thing reeks without context.

The rest of the article, about paranoia on the part of the Dems, sounds more like paranoia on the part of the author.
Seeing left wing conspiracies behind every bush is hardly something new at the Moonie paper.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[smeagol]

Washington Times talks about......recent comments by Madeline Albright made off the air suggesting that the white house knows where Bin Laden is and is holding off on getting him until it is politically expediant and beneficial to Bush's re-election campaign.


In a related vein...
Imagine:
-- President G.W. Bush, with a few of his closest advisers:
"I want to get Saddam out, we need the oil, we need the territory for bases. And I want a good solid kick-butt win. Nothing like a good war win, with the election coming up.

We're gonna need a lotta troops, tanks, planes, ships and stuff. But we gotta keep up the illusion on the hunt for Osama, that dang rascal. If we can get him, it'll be an bonus for me. It'll be a big feather in my cape...er...pleat in my cap...dangit!...whatever

We gotta leverage this... whaddya call it? weapons of mass disruption? oh yeah, right, "destruction". (laughs) I know, I know he doesn't have em. But I gotta use it to get in there, get 'im, and then, after a few months when everyone else finds out that there aren't any o'them disruption things, I can...hmmm lemme think...I got it! I'll claim that we liberated the Iraqi people! Dang! Brilliant!

I gotta tell dad...he's gonna be so proud. Then I gotta get on the horn to Blair, he's gonna love it!

Condi, Colin, Don, get to work! Make it so!

Oh man this is gonna be good for me, very good for me. Yee Haw!"



The above is my take on the aggregate reality expressed by so many of those who choose to bash and smear G. W.



and, oh yeah, there's this:
-- Madeline Albright, 1998:
"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed."


and this:
-- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998:
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."


and this:
-- Robert Byrd, October 2002:
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002


and this:
-- President Clinton in 1998:
"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow."


and this:
-- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."


and this:
-- President Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003:
"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out."


and, of course, this:
-- George W. Bush:
"States like these (Iraq, Iran, & North Korea), and their terrorist allies, constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. By seeking weapons of mass destruction, these regimes pose a grave and growing danger. They could provide these arms to terrorists, giving them the means to match their hatred. They could attack our allies or attempt to blackmail the United States. In any of these cases, the price of indiffer

[TheMojoPin]

So all he did was prove...that those Democrats (Which I disagree with on this issue) were just as wrong as Bush and co.? SCORE! I like this guy...


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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 12-18-03 @ 11:45 PM

[Recyclerz]

Yes, we have.

Here's a link to a David Brooks essay in The Atlantic Monthly:

How To Run For President (http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/10/brooks.htm)

Brooks is one of a small handful of Conservatives that I read for thoughtful analysis rather than to get my blood pumping with an adreneline rush caused by blind hatred before I go to the gym.
This is the relevant piece of the essay for this thread:

This fact poses a dilemma for Democrats in particular. The Democratic Party is in a highly emotional state, which puts it starkly at odds with the detachment of anti-political voters. Most engaged liberals are enraged by the policies and behavior of the Republicans. Many congressional Democrats believe that the people leading the Republican Party do not care about the common good but just want to grab what they can for themselves. They regard leading Republicans as liars, thugs, and worse. And they cannot restrain their fury.
But their fury is exactly the sort of emotion that will repel anti-political voters, who will see it not as righteous indignation but as shrill partisanship. It is too political, too fevered, too contentious. These voters have not been reading and rereading articles about the many Republican outrages, and they may well wonder about the mental stability of Democrats who get themselves so worked up over seemingly so little.

In taking Brooks' advice I have modified my behavior; now instead of getting pissed at the current regime I take a deep breath, down a shot of Jim Beam and send more money to Wesley Clark.
:)



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This message was edited by Recyclerz on 12-18-03 @ 11:45 PM

[Se7en]

But their fury is exactly the sort of emotion that will repel anti-political voters, who will see it not as righteous indignation but as shrill partisanship. It is too political, too fevered, too contentious. These voters have not been reading and rereading articles about the many Republican outrages, and they may well wonder about the mental stability of Democrats who get themselves so worked up over seemingly so little.

This is why Howard Dean will lose badly if he gets the nomination.

He's rapidly passing to the point where he will not be able to come "back to the center" (assuming he was ever there to begin with). Which means he'll have to count on a strong base vote - but if he continues the strong anti-Bush / conservative (on everything) sentiment, it's going to dissuade moderate voters that he needs.

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[high fly]

Dean has plenty of time to "come back to the center".

I just want to see how he's going to beat out Bush for the Democratic nomination...

" and they ask me why I drink"

[curtoid]

Dean has plenty of time to "come back to the center".

I just want to see how he's going to beat out Bush for the Democratic nomination...

Oh, High Fly...you is makin' me laugh.

[KOP]