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Patches
12-12-2003, 10:05 AM
A few nights back I was rewatching the LOTR: FOTR to bone up before the ROTK comes out, and I came up with a question which I got a bunch of different answers to.

The group gets to the door to get inside the dwarven mines, and the password to get in is the elven word for "friend". Why would the password to get into a dwarven mine be in elvish? I thought they didn't get along too well.

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mikeyboy
12-12-2003, 10:07 AM
Why would the password to get into a dwarven mine be in elvish?


This man may know the answer to that.

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Patches
12-12-2003, 10:10 AM
leave elvish preshley out of this... you get the point though.

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Furtherman
12-12-2003, 10:10 AM
Passwords can be a stange oddity.

Open Sesame!

What the hell does that mean?

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Bill From Yorktown
12-12-2003, 10:12 AM
guessing here - they did get along at one time hundreds of years ago when the mines were created, but they wanted a good lock for the door, and since the Elvese were the resident magic producers, they set it up for them.

Then again maybe the Elves owned the mines before the Dwarves did?

Dunno...

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high fly
12-12-2003, 10:19 AM
I blame it on the Lorax...

" and they ask me why I drink"

Justice4all
12-12-2003, 10:21 AM
A few nights back I was rewatching the LOTR: FOTR to bone up before the ROTK comes out, and I came up with a question which I got a bunch of different answers to.

The group gets to the door to get inside the dwarven mines, and the password to get in is the elven word for "friend". Why would the password to get into a dwarven mine be in elvish? I thought they didn't get along too well.

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I would reccomend you pose your questions to JustJon. TooCute or Jerry Taker, they know more about LOTR then most of us combined.

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Freebird
12-12-2003, 10:45 AM
Bill got this one right. The elves and dwarves were closer allies, but events (many of Sauron's devising) divided them until they regarded each other with distrust.

There's a line in the book about this. When someone comments on just this point, Gimli replies: "Those were happier times."

Do I get geek points for this?

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mikeyboy
12-12-2003, 10:53 AM
Do I get geek points for this?


It's more likely to get you a heart punch, a wedgie, or a swirly. I'd stay out of the RF.net bathroom if you see any of the cool kids in there smoking.

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PeteSchwetty
12-12-2003, 11:09 AM
The doors to Moria were created back in the days when elves and dwarves got along and lived adjacent to each other. The doors were actually created by the elves as a gift to Durin and his fellow dwarves.

I'm so broke I can't afford to pay attention.

Freebird
12-12-2003, 11:11 AM
It's more likely to get you a heart punch


As if you're in the same league as Mean Mark Callas or Rugged Ronnie Garvin...don't make me laugh!! :)

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furie
12-12-2003, 11:33 AM
I always assumed it was the elvish word for friend because the dwarven word would be too obvious.


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TooCute
12-12-2003, 12:08 PM
There is a clue in the doors; they say:

Ennyn Durin Aran Moria. Pedo Mellon a Minno. Im Narvi hain echant. Celebrimbor o Eregion teithant i thiw hin.

which translates as

The Doors of Durin, Lord of Moria. Speak, friend, and enter. I, Narvi, made them. Celebrimbor of Hollin drew these signs.

Celebrimbor was an elf. Narvi was a dwarf. In the second age, there was a lot of trade between the dwarves of Moria and the elves, particularly of a town called "Ost-in-Edhil" in the region of Eregion (the elvish word "Eregion" translates to "Hollin") - essentially the entire region sort of south of the Bruinen river but north of Dunland: <img src="http://www.douglas.eckhart.btinternet.co.uk/maps-middle-earth-01.jpg" width=400">

Celebrimbor was the lord of Ost-in-Edhil; he is the one that made the three elvish rings of power (vilya, narya, and nenya - the latter of which we see Galadriel wearing in the movie - and also we see all three of them during the prologue, when Galadriel is narrating - Galadriel's got the diamond nenya, Elrond's got the sapphire Vilya, and then another elf who isn't named in the first two movies - it's either Gil-Galad or Cirdan (I suspect Cirdan will make an appearance at the end of RotK) has got the ruby Narya- Gil Galad gave Narya to Cirdan who then gave it to Gandalf before the movies take place.)

The star on the doors is the star of the house of Feanor; one of Feanor's sons was Curufin, and Curufin's son was Celebrimbor (hence the star).

Narvi just one of the dwarf crafsmen. He actually made the doors; Celebrimbor is the one that put the spell and design on them with the ithildin (the stuff that only reflects moonlight).

It's interesting backstory; essentially, back in the day, Sauron pretended he was a good guy, and lived with the elves in Eregion. Galadriel lived there too, and he knew Galadriel was powerful so he tricked the elves of Eregion into revolting against Galadriel (that's why she left and ended up in Lorien - at tha point Celeborn refused to go into the mines of Moria to get to Lorien so she left him behind). He tricked the elves in Eregion - who were really good jewelsmiths, into making the rings of power for him. However, Celebrimbor was strong enough and smart enough not to fall for Sauron's lies and so Sauron never actually got to touch and corrupt the three elvish rings of power (like he did the 9 human ones). About when they started making the three elvish rings, Sauron went to Mt. Doom & made the One Ring. Only, he learned about what Celebrimbor had done (made the three elvish rings) and got really pissed and decided to go to war with the elves in Eregion.

At this point, Celebrimbor (on the advce of Galadriel), had already given the three elvish rings of power to three of the most powerful elves around. Sauron was understandably pissed when he heard about it, and went to war on Eregion. He wanted to steal the three elvish rings (and 7 dwarvish rings also mentioned in the prologue of the movie) back for himself. Celebrimbor faught Sauron; Sauron won, tortured Celebrimbor, eventually killed him and then went to war with Elrond & his cronies further north.

Luckily, Durin (remember, those doors are called the Doors of Durin cause he was king of the moria dwarves when it was made..) sent out some dwarves to help elrond out, and Galadriel sent some of her elves from Lorien to help, but unfortunately Sauron's army was stronger and he fought Elrond back to rivendell and the dwarves & lorien elves back into the mines of moria. He couldn't get at them though because he couldn't get past the Doors of Durin.

So... he decided to march his army eastwards, towards the land where Gil-Galad (remember? he originally had Narya?) was lord because he wanted Gil-Galad's ring. Only Gil-Galad was ready for him, plus Sauron had to split yup his troops to make sure Elrond didn't come at him from behind. All the same, Sauron pushed Gil-Galad all the way East (past the shire etc.) to the Grey Havens (which will be in the final movie), and was abou

blakjeezis
12-12-2003, 03:15 PM
And you know . . .

http://www.klmj.com/harvey.jpg

. . . the rest of the story.

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furie
12-12-2003, 03:54 PM
http://www.klmj.com/harvey.jpg

I hate that guy...


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A.J.
12-15-2003, 10:35 AM
I hope this was an appropriate thread to use. I found this blurb on a music news website and thought some may find this of interest (I apologize if this is old news):


Beatles Wanted To Make 'Rings' Films

Lord of the Rings director Peter Jackson has revealed that the Beatles wanted to make films of the three JRR Tolkien books in the 1960s, but that the author "killed" the idea. In an interview published in the January 2004 issue of Total Film magazine, Jackson said that Paul McCartney told him the story of how the Beatles had negotiated with Tolkien. "It was something John Lennon was driving at. JRR Tolkien still had the film rights at that stage, but he didn't like the idea of the Beatles doing it. So he killed it." According to Jackson, Lennon was to play Gollum, George Harrison was to play Gandalf, McCartney was to play Frodo and Ringo Starr was to play Sam.

The third and final installment of the Lord of the Rings series, titled The Return of the King, is set to open nationwide Wednesday (December 17th).


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Bill From Yorktown
12-15-2003, 10:37 AM
Bill got this one right. ...
Do I get geek points for this?

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you and I split 6% of the geek points, and Aya gets the other 94% I'm afraid....

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JustJon
12-15-2003, 10:42 AM
sorry, TooCute, I missed all that. Could you repeat it? Thanks.

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KillOReilly
12-15-2003, 11:05 AM
but he didn't like the idea of the Beatles doing it. So he killed it


I love the Beatles, but I'm glad this didn't happen. Middle Earth is already weird enough with out them throwing walrus' and yellow submarines into the mix...

He did sell the rights pretty cheap though, I wonder why he did sell them.

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newport king
12-15-2003, 05:07 PM
nerds.

~another newport king joint~

DESERTEAGLE.50
12-15-2003, 06:22 PM
the real answer:

only reason the password was in elfen was so it would be quandered over once the movie came out and it was re-watcht in preparation for ROTK...age-old subliminal promotion, it is....

and, as Fez askt tonite...where the fuck IS Middle Earth...is it underground?

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Justice4all
12-16-2003, 01:16 AM
I re-itterate.....[/quote]

I would reccomend you pose your questions to JustJon. TooCute or Jerry Taker, they know more about LOTR then most of us combined.

[/quote]
Thank you Too Cute for proving my point. I cannot wait to hear about your and Jon's review tommorow night.

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Servo
12-16-2003, 01:33 PM
TooCute-
Is all of that backstory in the appendices? I haven't read them in depth, just kinda skimmed them.

GwEnYpOo
12-16-2003, 01:45 PM
alot of that was from the silmarilian , though i don't know how anyone could read that thing all the way thruogh without falling asleep.

toocute , you put me to shame

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high fly
12-16-2003, 03:31 PM
If I really learn this stuff, can I get chicks?

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The Chairman
12-16-2003, 03:51 PM
Thank you Too Cute for proving my point. I cannot wait to hear about your and Jon's review tommorow night.

Yeah and Jon thanks for taking my ticket. Much as I like to sleep, I prefer doing it in my bed and not a movie theater.




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