Why would Hillary waste her time?

[Teenweek]

Clark would want Hillary for VP (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105296,00.html)

[high fly]

He did not say he would want her, he just gave a generic statement on how much he liked her in a region where she is pretty popular.

Although I am convinced she isn't going to ever run for prez, I enjoy the way she has clowns like O'Reiily and Limbaugh shit-scared of her.

The only candidate that scares Republicans is gen-you-wine-war-hero Wesley Clark, and at this point, I think he is the only Democrat who has a chance of beating Bush.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[ChrisTheCop]

This Hilary's actually considering it. A woman Vice-President?! America's not ready for that, ,but a woman pretending to be a man vice-president....just might work.
http://216.40.225.63/s/swank_hilary/images/thumbs/thb016.jpg

<img src="http://rfcop.50megs.com/images/jersey_rich-fluffernutter_sigpic.gif">jersenutter

This message was edited by ChrisTheCop on 12-10-03 @ 1:26 PM

[Teenweek]

.

The only candidate that scares Republicans is gen-you-wine-war-hero Wesley Clark, and at this point, I think he is the only Democrat who has a chance of beating Bush.

"

Does anyone know what Wesley Clark stands for. he changes his mind every day. Is he a republican, Democrat, Liberal? Is he for the war, against the war? Does he like Bush and his policies or does not like his policies. Yes he is war hero but he sounds like a kook.

[A.J.]

The only candidate that scares Republicans is gen-you-wine-war-hero Wesley Clark


What about "gen-you-wine-war-hero" John F. Kerry?

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[JustJon]

What we really need these days is Prez Rickard

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<img src="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/bans/rfjustjon10.gif"><BR><A href="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com">Chaotic Concepts</a>

[high fly]

[quote]The only candidate that scares Republicans is gen-you-wine-war-hero Wesley Clark


What about "gen-you-wine-war-hero" John F. Kerry?

Not as herocious as Clark.


TextDoes anyone know what Clark stands for

Yes, but you actually have to listen and read and stuff, so go back to your video game...

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Teenweek]

well he was on tape supporting bush, cheney, powell, and now he is against everything they do. The guy is a kook.


Does Kerry bring anything to the table besides being a Vietnam Vet. he is almost a parody of himself as he brings it up any chance he gets. I respect him for being there and fighting for this country, but he does not have to tell everyone every day he was a vietnam vet. Don't you think that is a turnoff to voters.

[A.J.]

Wes Clark on the issues (http://clark04.com/issues/)

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[KillOReilly]

I think We'll be ready for a woman president if it happens like on Battlestar Galatica: Cyclons Nuke our Planet(s) and the Secretary of Education becomes the new president after the elected president and the next 41 people in line to suceed him dies in the attacks.

Of course we never see the Cylons except for 2 crappy GCI ones for a few seconds at first and a Blonde who is a Cyclon in a human form

http://members.cox.net/qtx/killbilloreilly01.jpg

This message was edited by KillO'Reilly on 12-10-03 @ 3:12 PM

[high fly]

The guy is a kook

Kooks don't graduate first in their class at West Point, then get Rhodes Scholarship, then repeatedly show courage on the battlefield, outperform most of his peers rising through the ranks, improving every unit he commanded, and recieve the praise of Republicans and Democrats the way Clark has.

And besides, I told you to mow the lawn, so why isn't it done?

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Teenweek]

Wes Clark on the issues (http://clark04.com/issues/)



Like I said, Clark is a kook (http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0339/schanberg.php)

Make up your damn mind already.

[Teenweek]

Kooks don't graduate first in their class at West Point, then get Rhodes Scholarship, then repeatedly show courage on the battlefield, outperform most of his peers rising through the ranks, improving every unit he commanded, and recieve the praise of Republicans and Democrats the way Clark has.



I respect his military service and his bravery for this country. But every military man does not make a politician.



And besides, I told you to mow the lawn, so why isn't it done?


Sorry, I am not puerto rican.

[blakjeezis]

Dude, if you'd said Mexican it would have been funny. Puerto Rican references should be used for car stereo, hubcap stealing jokes only. Any type of manual labor references, e.g. dishwashing, lawn mowing, custodial duties, etc. are reserved for Mexicans.

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If I were any better, I'd have to be twins!!
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This message was edited by blakjeezis on 12-10-03 @ 3:29 PM

[Teenweek]

Dude, if you'd said Mexican it would have been funny. Puerto Rican references should be used for car stereo, hubcap stealing jokes only. Any type of manual labor references, e.g. dishwashing, lawn mowing, custodial duties, etc. are reserved for Mexicans.



Forgive me. I have my stereotypes messed up.

[high fly]

I respect his military service and his bravery for this country. But every military man does not make a politician

Not every military man IS a politician. Very few military men in politics have done what he has done .Not only has he led men superbly in combat, but he has managed larger organizations, has demonstrated diplomatic skill and been a winner at all he's set his hand to.
His combat experience would make him more circumspect about sending men to war, and he'd be more likely to understand what is required in this war against terrorism.

sorry, I am not puerto rican

Well then,pretend.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[blakjeezis]

No apology or request for forgiveness needed. Although funny is something that you are born with, it still needs to be molded and honed, much like attunement to the force. I, like Master Yoda, am here to teach and guide.

Now go, young padawan, use what you have learned. Sharp your tongue must be, also quick your wit. Avoid puns, shock humor, and gay Alkey jokes; Easy are they, to the Dark Side do they lead. Once down that unfunny path you start, forever will it control your destiny. Hmmmmmmmm, much fear I sense in you . . .

<IMG SRC =http://www.blakjeezis.homestead.com/files/toyjeez.gif>
If I were any better, I'd have to be twins!!
<marquee><font color=red>2%</font> White people are so scared of blakjeezis<font color=red>2%</font></marquee>

[Teenweek]

When he was a republican he was for the war, now that he is a democratic candidate he is against it. He was the next big thing and his campaign has fallen off a cliff. Dean is pretty much a lock because he is the only candidate besides that idiot Kucinich who was against the war from the start.
And he wrapped up the black vote with endoresements from gore and jesse jackson

[Se7en]

The only candidate that scares Republicans is gen-you-wine-war-hero Wesley Clark, and at this point, I think he is the only Democrat who has a chance of beating Bush.

Why are we afraid of him?

Pretty much everyone else in the field, including Kucinich, is a better politician than he is.

If he gets the nomination, he will be SLAUGHTERED in the general election. The Democrat's best bet is to encourage him to be someone's vice president candidate. But he's not ready for prime time, and it shows.

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/KyoSe7en.jpg" width="300" height="125">
<br>
<br>
Resistance is <b>FLAMMABLE.</b></center>

[SatCam]

If Clinton become president I think I would enjoy the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton rotation.

<img src=http://hometown.aol.com/rnfsatelitecam/images/sig77_christmas_snowing.jpg align=right><A HREF=http://www.satelitecam.tk>Ron and Fez Drops and Bits</A> | <a href=http://www.oldronandfezpages.tk>WNEW Ron and Fez Pages</a> | <a href=http://www.robanddan.tk/>RobandDan.tk</a>
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[TheMojoPin]

Clark doesn't stand a chance, and he shouldn't. Military leader, fine, but little to nothing he's done or said convinces me he can run the country any better than Bush for a second. The Republicans would be fools to "fear" him. Heck, the Democrats don't have a chance at all. The only thing "gen-yoo-ine" here is that they blew a "gen-yoo-ine" chance to oust Bush by presenting the squabbling runts of the litter.

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[high fly]

I repeat: Clark scares the shit out of the Republicans.

His sterling military credentials go far beyond just his abilities at the tactical, operational and strategic level. They show a caliber of leadership sorely missing on either side of the political spectrum.
He steals Republican thunder by cutting sharply into the military vote, especially the senior officers who despise Rumsfeld.
He also gives the Democrats a much better shot at taking southern states, which I believe is necessary if they are to win the election.

(edit) Don't write him off so soon, Mojo. Good grief, we haven't even had the first primary!
The man has been a winner at everything he's done.





The only thing gen-you-wine here...

The man is a genuine war hero- he performed heroically on the battlefield. That shows an aspect of a man's character that I happen to find desirable.
He's got a set.


"and they ask me why I drink"

This message was edited by high fly on 12-10-03 @ 8:00 PM

[A.J.]

He steals Republican thunder by cutting sharply into the military vote, especially the senior officers who despise Rumsfeld.

Not necessarily. He wasn't very well-liked by some military folks who saw him as a self-promoter and an opportunist.


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[high fly]

Name 2.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[A.J.]

Norman Schwarzkopf and Hugh Shelton.



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[high fly]

I've heard a vague comment by Shelton that he has refused to elaborate on.
What did Norm say?

" and they ask me why I drink"

[A.J.]

Here's the article I posted in the "Is Dean Too Liberal?" thread:

Why Can't Generals Get Along? (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/031124/usnews/24notes_2.htm)

High Fly, I'm not saying Clark won't get a strong military vote but I don't think he's as beloved as people may think.

EDIT: OK, that linked doesn't have the article but here's the relevant text I posted in the other thread:

Why Can't Generals Just Get Along?

When at a forum in September, retired Gen. Hugh Shelton was asked if he would support retired Gen. Wesley Clark for president, Shelton, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, quickly took a drink of water. "That question makes me wish it were vodka," Shelton said. "I've known Wes for a long time. I will tell you the reason he came out of Europe early had to do with integrity and character issues, things that are very near and dear to my heart. I'm not going to say whether I'm a Republican or a Democrat. I'll just say Wes won't get my vote."

Which was bad enough, but on November 6, retired Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf appeared on CNBC's Capital Report, hosted by Gloria Borger and Alan Murray, who asked him what he thought of Clark. "I think the greatest condemnation against him . . . came from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff when he was a NATO commander. I mean, he was fired as a NATO commander," Schwarzkopf replied, "and when Hugh Shelton said he was fired because of matters of character and integrity, that is a very, very damning statement, which says, `If that's the case, he's not the right man for president,' as far as I'm concerned."

Shelton has refused to expand on his remarks, and Schwarzkopf isn't providing details, either. So Clark was understandably miffed when he responded on the campaign trail the next day: "I haven't talked to General Schwarzkopf since 1991, when I interviewed him in his headquarters about what he liked and didn't like about the Army. He left the Army shortly after that; haven't seen him in 12 years. He didn't ask me anything about it. So he's certainly entitled to his opinion, but I think America should hold people to a high standard."


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This message was edited by AJinDC on 12-10-03 @ 8:25 PM

[Doomstone]

An interesting take on the "military men don't like Clark" meme from the New York Review of Books:

LINK (http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16795)



Several people who are well informed about military politics or who worked with Clark during the Kosovo war believe that his enemies were largely motivated by professional jealousy of a US general who rose so quickly and also got international attention for a war unpopular with many of his colleagues.

....Clark's conduct of the Kosovo war, and his earlier participation as the US military negotiator in the meetings in Dayton following the war in Bosnia, earned him the admiration of several of the civilians he had worked with. Strobe Talbott, then the deputy secretary of state, reminded me recently that Clark is, after all, the only Supreme Allied Commander of NATO who actually had to fight a war, "and it ended in victory." Talbott told me that he found Clark to be "extraordinarily determined and able, and open to working with diplomats and civilians, US and foreign." Talbott pointed out that Clark, in commanding the Kosovo war, had had to deal daily with nineteen nations.

[Sandy] Berger, who has not endorsed any of the presidential candidates, also speaks highly of Clark. Richard Holbrooke, under whom Clark served at the Dayton negotiations, is a friend of Clark's and supports his candidacy. Michael Gordon, the Times's able military reporter, who covered the Kosovo war, wrote of Clark in early October that "while NATO's military campaign was not perfect by any means...the general's judgment of... critical issues seems pretty solid when viewed in perspective; a humanitarian wrong was righted and NATO won its first and only war."




The article also quotes retired General Walter Kross, a former four-star Air Force general who worked with Clark in the mid-90s:



He's not the army general officer from central casting. He's the extra-ordinary senior officer who can do extra-ordinary work on the entire range of challenges senior officers have to face-including Kosovo and the Dayton Accords, on which he worked himself into exhaustion. No army officer from central casting can do that work, but Wes did.




Also it's important to note that Col. David Hackworth , famous for the "perfumed prince" line, has recently changed his stance.


Veterans For Clark (http://www.veteransforclark2004.us/page4.html#Reporting%20for%20Duty%20-%20Wesley%20Clark%20By%20David%20H.%20Hackworth%20 9-28-03)



I took a swing at Clark during the Kosovo campaign when I thought he screwed up the operation, and I called him a "Perfumed Prince." Only years later did I discover from his book and other research that I was wrong - the blame should have been worn by British timidity and William Cohen, U.S. SecDef at the time.




I'd also recommend his interview with Clark from Maxim magazine.

[high fly]

I got to fumblin' and-a bumblin' around trying to get the US News & World Report article, but couldn't pull it, AJ.

Any specific complaints?

The Maxim article is a good one.
One of the Clark websites has some other favorable quotes about him from his peers.

I'm not saying he's perfect, but in my view, he'd be a significant improvement on Bush.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[A.J.]

I pasted it into my previous post.

Long story short: some retired brass hold grudges against Clark. It's quite possible they might influence opinion both within the current senior military leadership and without.

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[high fly]

I'd like to hear what they had to say privately about a hypothetical choice between Clark and their problems with him or Bush and their problems with Rummy.


(edit) Ok, so all Norm did was to say what Shelton said wasn't nice. Schwartzkoff didn't echo Shelton's opinion.

I'd say David Hackworth trumps Hugh Shelton any day.

I've seen this kind of rivalry in the military before and know that when a man is promoted over others with more time in grade, it provokes resentment and jealousy among those he skipped over; and those are already strong willed, successful, ambitious men.
That's all this is. it's why you don't see any specific failures mentioned that can be examined.




(edit) And I have no problem with someone who was for the war a year ago and is now against it. So what if they made the mistake of believing the lies and distortions coming from the Bush administration?



" and they ask me why I drink"




This message was edited by high fly on 12-12-03 @ 4:06 PM