Nigga vs Nigger: Let's stop this, huh?

[blakjeezis]

You know, maybe it was funny at some point in time although I'm not even really sure about that. But I think that it's become a cliche now. The other day, I saw Eddie Griffin on, uhhh I think it was the Richard Pryor thing on Comedy Central, and he was explaining to us white folks the difference betweeen nigga and nigger as though this was the first time ANYONE had said it and it was completely hilarious and original. It went soemthing like this, {black guy doing white guy voice} You know fellas, there's a difference between niggER and niggA. It's okay for us colored folks to use niggA to refer to each other{/black guy doing white guy voice} . . . and so on and so on.
My probelms with this are numerous, I'll give you a few:

1. Eddie, you're a funny nigga or nigger (whichever), don't resort to hack material.
2. The idea that nigga is okay but nigger isn't is ludicrous, or should I say Ludacris.
3. The idea that certain segments of the population are allowed to say a word, while others are not is more offensive than the word nigger is, was, or ever will be.
4. We've all heard this before, 10 years ago. It is neither funny, nor original.
5. Attributing this to, or even associating it with Richard Pryor is an insult to his comedic legacy. Pryor was a genius, a performing artist, and social revolutionary. Yes he used "nigger" in his acts. He knew what he was doing and used it exactly because of its meaning. He used it to skewer white people, black people, our culture, our government, our world and the word itself. Don't taint him with half-assed, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, apologist bullshit like nigga.

Thank you.

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This message was edited by blakjeezis on 12-8-03 @ 1:16 PM

[KillOReilly]

I use the term Black. just like White, it's not offensive. African American isn't accurate, Niagga/er is just asking for trouble Everyone has their own definition and boundry, I'd rather just not piss anyone off for no good reason.

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This message was edited by KillO'Reilly on 12-8-03 @ 1:21 PM

[curtoid]

I liked David Chapelle's comment that the "E-R" stood for "Extra Racist."

[KOP]

[Bama]

What? Are you the boss of black people now?

I didn't think so. You'll do what they say and you'll like it.

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[curtoid]

I use the term Black. just like White, it's not offensive. African American isn't accurate

It is if they have moved here from Africa, like my neighbors from Ethiopia, or Algeria, like my friend's Mom, but does it count for U.S. missonaries who go there to do "God's Work," like my nice (although a little too self righteous) cousins, who are in Tanzania and Mozambique?

[KOP]

[Bama]

A kid on my baseball team was born in South Africa. He was whiter than I am. We still called him an African American because he was.

That doesn't make black people in America any less African, I'm just saying...

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[KillOReilly]

It is if they have moved here from Africa, like my neighbors from Ethiopia, or Algeria, like my friend's Mom


Exactly. But what about a black guy who was born in the US. What about a Black Guy who was born and lives in England? What about Black guys in africa?

"African America" has replaced "black" to some people, it shouldn't because it doesn't mean the same thing.

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This message was edited by KillO'Reilly on 12-8-03 @ 2:11 PM

[TheMojoPin]

Black is black. Any white person who thinks they NEED to say "nigger" or "nigga" really needs to find a hobby or something else to do.

Eddie Griffin is a hack.

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[TheMojoPin]

How about a white man born in Africa who comes to the US and becomes a citizen? He could be called an African American, but he could be white, never called black.

Dave Matthews?

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[high fly]

Black is black

"... I want my baby back.
Gray is gray,
Ever since she went away, oh no.
What can I do?
I cry-yi-yi-yi-yi- I'm feeling blue..."

(Black Is Black- Jose Feliciano)




" and they ask me why I drink"

[monkeysweat]

African American isn't accurate

How is it any less accurate that Irish or Italian American?

My brother has been shot.... I think it was an Asian gang.... there was this guy.... he was Asian.... they were speaking in some different language, I think it was.... Asian.

[KillOReilly]

How is it any less accurate that Irish or Italian American?


African American isn't accurate when you call a Black British Man African American.

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[blakjeezis]

Any white person who thinks they NEED to say "nigger" or "nigga" really needs to find a hobby or something else to do.


This logic mystifies me. Why white people, why not just people? It's not a huge big deal, like I'm not trying to fight for the right of white people to walk around saying 'nigger', although I guess in essence I am. Obviously the connotations of the word are horrendous. Why anyone would want to use it in a serious or pejorative fashion is beyond me, but they still have the right to use it, as much right as any black person does anyway. To say blacks can use it and whites can't is self-defeating. Language is the single most important building block and carrier of culture, if ever we are to be truly a United States then a commonality of language must be achieved. This is just one more example of this ideology that, although it claims to be uniting us and "helping us to appreciate our differences" is really only making the chasms that divide us so much deeper and harder to repair.

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[SatCam]

I dont really give a fuck what the color of your skin is. I use nigger like I use the word gay. It doesnt really matter what the literal meaning is, it's still insulting to everyone.

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[high fly]

Language is the single most important building block...


So if everybody can't say "nigger, civilization goes right down the drain, huh?

Or if they do, it does?

I'm confused.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[blakjeezis]

So if everybody can't say "nigger, civilization goes right down the drain, huh?


Short Answer: Yes.

Medium Answer: Specifically the word "nigger"? No, but it is a hell of a good example. Infringement on anyone's right to express their opinion or use specific words, no matter how repugnant, is a gross violation of all of our collective freedom. When we get the situation that we seem to have arrived at now, where one segment of the population is allowed to use certain language and one group isn't, it's even worse. It is divisive.

White people aren't allowed to say 'nigger' for an obvious reason, when used to slander it is a terrible and loathsome word that conjures images of oppression, enslavement, and murder. It means the same when a black person says it, when a Hispanic person says it, when a gay man says it, when an Asian says it. White people aren't allowed to say 'nigga', because it connotes a state of being; a 'blackness' and a familiarity with 'black culture' that most white people supposedly don't have. Notice that white people that grow up in black neighborhoods are allowed to use the word, becase they're 'down with the struggle'. This establishes a 'black culture' that is entirely separate from 'white culture'. We are in a society where there is 'Hispanic culture', 'Asian culture', 'gay culture', 'hetero culture', etc., each separate from the others, each becoming more and more rigid.

This is called 'multiculturalism'. You're identified with your own culture and there you shall stay. White people who identify themselves with 'black culture' are called 'Wiggers' and derided by whites. Blacks who identify themselves with 'white culture' are 'Uncle Toms' and treated the same by blacks. Take a look aound any college campus (supposed bastions of liberty and open-mindedness), the people at each cafeteria table, the people in each cluster of friends. They all look the same. For the most part, they're the same race, wear the same style of clothes, listen to the same music, talk the same, and so on. Is this where multiculturalism gets us, separate but equal?

As usual, I've strayed off topic a little here, but the point is made. Let's review: Language IS the carrier of culture; enforcing language codes on one group and not another creates different cultures; creating different cultures, and ill-will between them, creates discord; discord within the population (us) prevents any meaningful checks on the abuses of power by the powerful (them). If you read the racism thread started by Dreamweaver (sigh, awwwwwwww), there's a lot more on that theory there.

Long Answer: Read The New Thought Police by Tammy Bruce.

*Edit* - This not a black/white thing only. The same principle can be applied to the gay high school in New York or WASP only country clubs.

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This message was edited by blakjeezis on 12-8-03 @ 10:38 PM

[sr71blackbird]

Nig-ga plEase!

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[sr71blackbird]

Truth be told, there IS a double standard, but it is never going to go away, as long as we (mankind) keeps regarding ourselves as seperate species, or embuned with intellectual superiority over other people of different ethnic origins. All of us have the same intellectual potential, regardless of where our ancestors came from. But as long as one group can use its distaste of a word if it is uttered by another group and there is economic reward for that expressed distaste, then it will continue. Its sad to say, especially in light of what we now know and how far we have come in other areas.

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[monsterone]

it all comes down to context

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[blakjeezis]

White people aren't allowed to say 'nigger' for an obvious reason, when used to slander it is a terrible and loathsome word that conjures images of oppression, enslavement, and murder. It means the same when a black person says it, when a Hispanic person says it, when a gay man says it, when an Asian says it.


I need to amend this section drastically. Saying that people are "allowed" or "not allowed" to say a word is an obscenity. Anyone should be allowed to say anything they want. Even "should/shouldn't" is too strong. It is not socially acceptable, not just for white people but for all people, to use the word "nigger" in a condescending fashion. That is the way that should read, unfortunately in today's society, "allowed/not allowed" is becoming more and more the norm.

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[TheMojoPin]

This logic mystifies me. Why white people, why not just people? It's not a huge big deal, like I'm not trying to fight for the right of white people to walk around saying 'nigger', although I guess in essence I am. Obviously the connotations of the word are horrendous. Why anyone would want to use it in a serious or pejorative fashion is beyond me, but they still have the right to use it, as much right as any black person does anyway.

I'm with you 100% on the first part. It's a stupid word no matter who uses it. But that being said, it's even DUMBER when a non-black person uses it these days...ANY non-black person. Asians, Latinos, white, whatever...it's moronic, and yes, for whatever reason, it IS worse when they use it as opposed to black people using it. So that makes the latter part of your above statement, to me, not a fight for equal usage, but a fight to see who can sound stupider. Why would anyone want to sound moronic using a word like that if it already makes the black people (I wonder if it's even the majority that use it) that use it sound so dumb? Let it fucking die.

This comes back to something I brought up in the thread about whether Rush Limbaugh is racist or not...people can say whatever they want...but that doesn't mean they always should. It's like people are willing to sacrifice all common sense just for some vague notion of "fighting thought/speech control." Sure, non-black people CAN say "nigger" all they want...but why would they ever want/need/have to? Again, let the word die. Don't feed it by using it. It's stupid, no matter who uses it.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 12-9-03 @ 12:47 AM

[Snoogans]

i just call them late for work

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[FUNKMAN]

the world will become a better place when black people start getting reprimanded for saying racist remarks about white people. Such as Warren Sapp calling the team owner a 'slavemaster'. it will eventually happen...

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[Mike Teacher]

It is not socially acceptable, not just for white people but for all people, to use the word "nigger" in a condescending fashion.


Looking at the board posts; all evidence to the contrary. The distinction between "nigger" and "nigga" is a mental construst of the person using it, or hearing it. Ever think that. perhaps, most people see abolsutely no difference between the two? Ever, think, perhaps, that's because there Is no difference, and all the explaining about different people's usage of it is Exactly the evidence for this? Fuck Racism.

And forget about trying to change people. Helpful people are at best a nuisance. The racism, and those who are racist; is so utterly apparent it holds no question. An exercise in futility.

An Idea: Don't use it.

PS: This is not toward Blazjeezis; it's me spouting my bullshit opinion.
PPS: Race, as defined by skin color and other outward appearences? Doesn't Exist.

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This message was edited by Mike Teacher on 12-9-03 @ 8:02 AM

[Arienette]

just like White, it's not offensivewho said that "white" isn't offensive? the idea of "whiteness" is really pretty confusing in itself, and it doesn't mean all that much. it's just a construct... who's white? anyone who's not black?
African America" has replaced "black" to some people, it shouldn't because it doesn't mean the same thing.ok, fine, then what's black? a socially constructed mechanism for justifying the enslavement and perpetual degradation of african servants? mike said,
Race, as defined by skin color and other outward appearences? Doesn't Exist.. i think he was half right. race as defined by somatic characteristics most certainly does exist, but not in the way that most people think it does. the skin color, etc., was just a convenient way for these justifications to be made. they are meaningless in themselves. there is no difference between the "races" biologically. it's just a social thing. it was easy to use these characteristics as the basis for distinction because they are readily noticable and because they appear to be natural. this made it possible to say that the slave class were being treated as such because of something in them that mae them fit for such treatment. whiteness developed as the opposite of that. people who are considered to be "white" are from so many varied backgrounds it's ridiculous. a lot of white people wouldnt consider a lot of people who consider themselves to be white to be white. and don't get me started on "caucasian"... do you know how that one came to be? some european "scientist" who decided that people who looked like him were the ideal. he found a group of people near the caucus mountians who he felt were the most beautiful (mind you, he was basing this on skulls), and thus deemed them, and those who looked like them, caucasians. gotta love science. so, anyway, in this context, i'm no so sure that it's not insulting to call someone "white".


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[TheMojoPin]

In a way, it would make more sense if blacks were known as just "Africans" when distinguishing race, because as it's been said, "white" and "black" aren't terribly accurate or applicable any more. Using "African" would be along the lines of how we use the term "Asian" or "Middle Eastern". Then you can use the distinctions "European", "South American", and "North American". So then it would only make sense to call REAL "Africans" "Africans", so I've just stepped all over my own theory. I guess if you're from here, you're "North American". Not that it'll happen. And would these labels be an issue of race or nationality?

I'll start the countdown until someone declares this "PC out of control."

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[DJEvelEd]

You uppidy! You gots ta chill mah nizzle!

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[blakjeezis]

I'm not trying to argue that "nigger" or "nigga" are acceptable words. They're not. What I will argue is the idea that black people somehow sound less dumb than non-blacks if they use it. That's ridiculous. Who's more ignorant, the guy who insults himself or the guy who insults others? I say they are as ignorant as each other.

And once again the issue of 'should' comes up. That shouldn't even enter the argument. Obviously, in a perfect world these words wouldn't be used. Unfortunately we live in an imperfect world populated by a huge amount of ignorant, ignorant people, and everyone of us has the right to be as ignorant as anyone else. It's the cost of freedom, my friends. To be able to say what you want, you have to allow others to say what they want. Remember, there is an important distinction to be made though. Everyone has the right to say anything, voice any opinion. What they don't have is the right to be listened to. If you don't like what they say, ignore it.

This has turned into an argument about these specific words, and I guess that's what I started, but that wasn't my intention. What I'm trying to do is demonstrate the damage upon our society that this type of ideology can have. Hopefully, by showing the effect of these stupid cultural divisions, we can look at those who create these divisions and profit from them and see how we are being controlled, our Democracy undermined, and our freedom stolen away from us.

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This message was edited by blakjeezis on 12-9-03 @ 12:39 PM

[TheMojoPin]

You think people should have the freedom to say it.

I think people should exercise their freedom to NOT say it, no matter what the circumstance.

Same thing.

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[blakjeezis]

Yup.

Mr. Powers, we're not so different, you and I.

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This message was edited by blakjeezis on 12-9-03 @ 1:27 PM

[SatCam]

One problem I have is that nigga and nigger are the same word and are only spoken different when written on paper.

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