U.S. Chemical Plants Open To Terrorists

[Furtherman]

Did anyone else see this on 60 Minutes last night?

Scary as hell. An investigative reporter from Pittsburgh visited 60 chemical plants across the country and without any problems, was able to walk right up to the chemical tanks.

There is a tank right near NYC, across the river in that industrial mecca of northern Jersey, with a nearly a thousand tons of deadly chlorine gas stored. If someone were to walk up and puncture that tank, 12 million people would be in danger of dying. Especially if the winds were blowing towards NYC that day.

Almost 100 billon dollars to rebuild Iraq. How about some of that money to secure these chemical plants.

We don't have to worry about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq - we have them in our own backyards.

U.S. Plants Open to Terrorists (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/13/60minutes/main583528.shtml)

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[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

I saw that. Scary stuff.

And all they got was a fine of $25.00 for trespassing.

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[Heavy]

Hold up a minute here, you cant just walk up to the thing. I'm sure theres laws against that.

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[SatCam]

Yea, it's called tresspassing... $25 fine and court costs.

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[TheMojoPin]

Hell, people are still sneaking boxcutters onto planes just to show that it can be done, and you'd think we would have at least learned our lesosn on THAT.

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[HBox]

The funniest/scariest part of 60 Minutes last night was when they walked by the two plant workers and said hi.

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[Furtherman]

Yep, it is a joke how easy it was to get into these chemical plants.

The showed film of plants with their gates WIDE OPEN. Just throw a box of TNT in your truck and please drive thru - over 10 million choked to death right there.

They showed images from India when back in '84 some gas was accidentally released. That accident killed 3800 people and over 200,000 more suffered debilitating injuries.

I'm writing my representative. Find yours at http://www.house.gov/

Send him the link of the 60 Minutes article.

Spread the word. I'm hoping every little bit could help, because as far as I'm concerned, this is an unacceptable and unnecessary threat.

We don't need another tragedy to take precautions.

New Jersey Congressman Robert Menedez - Email:
http://menendez.house.gov/talk/

New York Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney - Email: rep.carolyn.maloney@mail.house.gov

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[FUNKMAN]

i seen some of it, it seems like such a 'dangerous' exposure and you shake your head as to how it could be.

you also ask yourself 'why haven't terrorists acted upon this exposure' up to this point. maybe they are not really sophisticated in the 'chemical' dept?

made me think about going out and getting some good gasmasks for the family...

can we really secure ALL areas?

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[sr71blackbird]

I love how people get more up in arms about them showing storys like this on tv and they always say..."they are giving them the idea!"
No, they are letting us know that for all our efforts to give the public the impression that we are at a higher level of attention, when the reality is, and we are all to blame for this, ...we simply dont want to have to alter our comfort level or change our behavior for safetys sake.
In a way, I understand it, you always hear how in Isreal, they have armed police everywhere, all over the airports and stuff, but despite that, terror still happens. Its the nature of vermin to look for holes in your walls to get access to your cupboard.

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[HBox]

Here's what the Department of Homeland Security has come up with so far:
http://www.drzags.com/images/full/ma_3m%20duct%20tape.jpg

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[TheMojoPin]

The day is SAVED!

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[Furtherman]

I think if enough people write their congressmen or woman, and a little noise can be made, step can be made to fix this problem. I'm sure Homeland Secuirty is doing all it can, but this is just unacceptable. Get those chemical plants to get it together.



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[high fly]

Good to see those billions dumped into the Department of Homeland Security are being well spent.

Anyone questioning the Department will have their patriotism questioned. After all, no REAL patriot would ask about these things.



" and they ask me why I drink"

[Mike Teacher]

Maybe I shouldnt talk about the massive amounts of poisons, radioactive materials, pure acids, and other generally nasty stuff I can get as a science teacher.

I just call ahead to any one of several welding supply or gas supply or science supply houses and tell them I need a Liter of Potassium Cyanide or a tank of Chlorine Gas or Elemental Sodium or Nitro or any of a thousand things used Commonly in labs, for non-nasty reasons.

The above on chemical plants is old news, sadly. It's always been this way.

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[high fly]

Yeah, just tell-em you've got a problem with roaches or something....

" and they ask me why I drink"

[A.J.]

Good to see those billions dumped into the Department of Homeland Security are being well spent.

I wasn't aware that the Federal government is responsible for the oversight of private corporations.

Nevertheless, new Federal safety/security standards need to be implemented.

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[high fly]

Edit, AJ, edit.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[A.J.]

Edit, AJ, edit.

Why? The corporations should pay for security upgrades, not DHS.

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[high fly]

I wasn't aware the federal government is responsible for the oversight of private corporations


There are tons of federal regulations that apply to private companies.
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but part of DHS's mandate included security of vital infrastructure.

" and they ask me why I drink"

This message was edited by high fly on 11-19-03 @ 12:49 PM

[A.J.]

You're right -- I worded that badly. I meant DHS pumping money directly into private corporations (and not in terms of a government bailout).

I'll cut DHS some slack and assume that since it's a relatively new Department, they are currently setting Federal guidelines for plant security.

At least I hope they are.

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[high fly]

How about them big, expensive nuke plant newspaper ads?
Y'know, the ones with the tough looking guy who's a 'Nam vet and ex Special Forces and has a nice assortment of weapons on him and all.
They make it seem like there's a fucking army of Rambos manning the barricades at every nuke plant like something out of Gunga Din, or Fort Apache, just waiting for the terrorists to attack so they can slaughter them.

They look to me like they're trying to scare them off with ads rather than any real security upgrades. Either that or they're trying to lull us into a false sense of security.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[TheMojoPin]

I'm sure Homeland Secuirty is doing all it can

I'm not.

One of the main problems with our intelligence services was the squabbling and lack of cooperation between the CIA, FBI and NSA. So the solution was to create ANOTHER federal security/intelligence agency to join the ruckus? Yeah, good call with that one.

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[A.J.]

One of the main problems with our intelligence services was the squabbling and lack of cooperation between the CIA, FBI and NSA. So the solution was to create ANOTHER federal security/intelligence agency to join the ruckus? Yeah, good call with that one.

If you look at the agencies that were reorg'd into DHS, they're mostly the law enforcement/security branches of existing Departments. Intel is still provided to DHS from CIA, FBI, and NSA.

The problem with coordination among the Intel agencies was that Federal law prevented them from working together. Has this been repealed/amended?

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[high fly]

A few months after 9-11, I went through "security" at Reagan/Washington/National Airport. In my carry on bag was 3 or 4 books, 20 or 30 sheets of notebook paper, a couple of pencils, rubber eraser, a package of TracTwo cartridges and a toothbrush.
It was put through the scanner 3 times, the second and third time marked by a crowd of deeply concerned middle-aged ladies clucking in some foreign language I've never heard before. They pointed and nodded and speculated and appeared to be concentrating on some weighty matter or something suspicious in my bag, but finally passed it without asking me to open it.
All of them looked as if they'd be more comfortable in front of a fry vat.
Then I was called aside and given the wand treatment and someone else waved a stick around my shoes, like he was dowsing for water or something.



" and they ask me why I drink"

[TheMojoPin]

The problem with coordination among the Intel agencies was that Federal law prevented them from working together. Has this been repealed/amended?

In theory?

Yes.

In practice?

Mostly not.

Trust me, these guys had NO problem not working together.

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[A.J.]

Trust me, these guys had NO problem not working together.

Ahhh, territorialism. See the warm and loving relationship between DoD and State.

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[Ndugu]

what amount of explosives would it require to breach one of these tanks with enough force to spread the contents over a wide area, or will prevailing winds spread it?


Dear Ndugu

[TheMojoPin]

Ahhh, territorialism. See the warm and loving relationship between DoD and State.

COMRADE!

COME TO MY ARMS!

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[high fly]

NDUGU --for scary details, hie thee down to a major bookstore and check out the latest book on terrorism by Anthony Cordesman.

" and they ask me why I drink"