An assessment of Dubya's presidency

[Doomstone]

I found this interesting.

Link (http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20031107.html)


Most people judge presidents by their own partisan predisposition, assessing presidents along party lines, and then rationalizing their conclusion afterward. Respected presidential scholars, however, typically try to understand the facts before they make their judgment. While they doubtless have partisan feelings, they recognize their bias, and seek to deal with it in making their judgments (somewhat in the way good judges do).

Earlier this year, a conference organized by Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School to review the first two and half years of the Bush presidency aimed to make just this kind of impartial assessment. The papers presented and panel discussions, later posted online, speak for themselves.

...

If you don't like Bush, this material won't change your mind, but it will correct some of your thinking. If you're a Bush supporter, you will be disappointed to learn that in the eyes of professionals, and for good reasons, this president is making some potentially dangerous mistakes.


The actual papers and discussions can be found HERE (http://www.wws.princeton.edu/bushconf/schedule.htm).

[Def Dave in SC]

An assessment of Dubya's presidency


Crappy.

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[Snoogans]

i say he choked, in every sense of the word

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[HBox]

An assessment of Dubya's presidency

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Heh heh heh.......you said ASS........heh huh heh heh heh

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[DJEvelEd]

Unfortunately for me, he hasn't legalized marijuana or hookers, my expensive toll-taking roads still suck, I'm overtaxed and my government is too big, the immigration system still sucks, the FCC is horrible, we still rely too much on oil energy, we're blowing up lots of people, we're losing our civil liberties little by little...

...but he fills out the suit well, and I bet his breath is fresh and his ball hairs are nicely manicured. His wife is kinda hot and his daughters are cool drunks. He wipes his ass with a silk shammy and has a secret service agent clean it after each use(AP)

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[carcass]

Well. we havent had 9/11 II so thats a plus.

big mistake federalising airport screeners

economy has picked up

still too soon to really tell

face down in the gutter
wont admit defeat
thou his clothes are soiled and black
he's a big strong man , w/ a childs mind
dont you take his booze away

[HBox]

Well. we havent had 9/11 II so thats a plus.


The moon hasn't come crashing into earth killing billions either, so I guess that's a plus too.

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[TheMojoPin]

still too soon to really tell

Nearly three years into a four year term?

My question is this...if Bush starts getting credit for the economy if it continues to rise (And he should if it does), will his conservative supporters bite the bullet and start crediting Clinton for the economy during HIS presidency?

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[A.J.]

My question is this...if Bush starts getting credit for the economy if it continues to rise (And he should if it does), will his conservative supporters bite the bullet and start crediting Clinton for the economy during HIS presidency?

Only if Rush says so.

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A Skidmark production.

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[high fly]

I wonder if they'll put in perspective and show that recent gains economically do not offset overall losses during his term, nor have his jobs and economic stimulus packages worked as advertised.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[TheMojoPin]

What do YOU want him to do about it? Nothing? You gotta start somewhere...a rising economy is a rising economy...it's better that than having it slide even more. Up is up is up.

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[badorties]

regardless of ideaology, mr. bush is a failure .....

after 9/11 he had the 'free world' in the palm of his hand, and completely squandered the goodwill of a common zeitgeist .... then on the eve of the first anniversary, he took his second annual vacation (compromising of an entire month in texas on holiday) - to be followed by a third .... plus all his constitiutions to camp davis and back to crawford - literally, i get the image of nero playing the fiddle .....

come next november, this is what i'll judge our president on -- plus the millions he pledged to NY as the twin towers were still burning, and has yet to deliver .....

plus he was born and raised in new england, where does all this psuedo-cowboy shit come from ....



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[HBox]

What I love most about Bush is that pained smile he gives after he says something he thinks is funny or witty.

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[furie]

It's a little early for this isn't it? His presidency is at worst 3/4 over. How can you evaluate him when he's npt done. That's like having a 2003:A year in review in September.


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[badorties]

It's a little early for this isn't it? His presidency is at worst 3/4 over. How can you evaluate him when he's npt done. That's like having a 2003:A year in review in September.


when you have a tenured/finite position, you can (hopefully) view any point of a term objectively ....



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"Life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced." -- Soren Aaby Kierkegaard

[TheMojoPin]

It's a little early for this isn't it? His presidency is at worst 3/4 over. How can you evaluate him when he's npt done.

If that's the case, why even bother voting? Let's give him another term just to see how he might do.

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[monsterone]

i didn't vote for george w, but i do support most of his policies. the world is a pretty hectic place at this point, and an assessment doesn't make much sense.

the better majority of our problems have no short term solutions, and a lot of things will change between now and when i'm voting.

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[high fly]

I do support most of his policies

Namely?

Do you support his "policy" of getting us out of "nation-building"?
Oh, that's right, he lied to us about that one.
Or how about the one on reducing military deployments?
Oh, that's right, he lied about that one too.
Or how about the one about us being more "humble" internationally and not acting without our allies (this one from the debates)?
Oh, that's right, he lied about that one too.
Or how about the one where he'd be "The environmental President", and rely on the science before taking a decision ?
Oops, not much to go on there.
How about him promising to get us out of Kosovo?
Lied about that one too.
Then there's the one about being a "free trader".
Oh dear, his steel tarriffs make him look hippocritical there as well.
B-but what about him being "the Education President" who was gonna get the government's nose out of the public schools?
He reversed himself again by coming out for federally mandated nationwide testing.
Then he reversed himself again by supporting this voucher plan that would help kids go to private schools where they wouldn't have to take those federally mandated tests! And it has turned out that his Education Secretary didn't really turn around the Austin schol system after all, but merely foisted upon the public a shell game so that everybody could pretend that the kids were suddenly scoring better on achievement tests.
Ahhhh, but maybe you support him on his promise not to make future generations pay for his tax cuts?
Looks like he lied again.

Does the fact that he'll be the first president since Hoover to finish his first term with a net job loss appeal to you?

" and they ask me why I drink"

[furie]

It's a little early for this isn't it? His presidency is at worst 3/4 over. How can you evaluate him when he's npt done.

If that's the case, why even bother voting? Let's give him another term just to see how he might do.



Mojo, calm yourself.

I didn't say we don't evaluate him at all. I think it's a but early. This book is coming out 1 year before the elections, which means it was written months ago. So it's an assessment of what, 2 1/2 years?

Let's rake him over the coal when we have:
1) an opposing candidate to compare him to

or

2) near the election



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[TheMojoPin]

I'm down.

But how can we compare him to another candidate? If it's unfair to analyze Bush this far into his term, isn't it even more unfair to compare him to someone who hasn't been president at all?

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[Se7en]

If that's the case, why even bother voting? Let's give him another term just to see how he might do.

I KNEW you would come around to my way of thinking one of these days. ;p

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[high fly]

Watch it, MOJO, being sensible confuses these guys.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[furie]

point.

I didn't articulate my point well enough and now i don't remember where i was going with #1.

I still think it's too early for this


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[high fly]

Only in the sense that we can only look at his performance so far.
So, SE7EN, wanna tackle the points I raised a few posts ago?

" and they ask me why I drink"

[furie]

Do you support his "policy" of getting us out of "nation-building"?
Oh, that's right, he lied to us about that one.
Or how about the one on reducing military deployments?
Oh, that's right, he lied about that one too.



come on. lied? don't you think 9-11 changed ALOT? I don't think we would have invaded anyone had the attacts on the WTC not happened. the world changed drasticly one morning, he was forced to change his stance.

How about him promising to get us out of Kosovo?


I don't remember that one, but that doesn't mean he didn't say it. sounds like a campagin promise that he failed to keep.

speaking of campagin promised not kept, I do remember Clinton promising NOT to put troops there in the first place...how'd that work out?


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This message was edited by furie on 11-19-03 @ 5:56 PM

[Yerdaddy]

I think Bin Laden would give him the thumbs up, so I got to give him the thumbs down.

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TEAR THE BITCH APART!

[high fly]

He made the promises.
Too bad for us he didn't know not to say such things.

The world didn't change. On these issues, Bush was exposed, that's all.

Let's see you handle the rest of the ones I threw out there, FURIE.

Here's another one for you to chew on-- during the campaign , one of his promises was that on "day One" he would order the US embassy in Israel moved to Jeruselem.
Oopsy-daisy, he lied again.

Whether you agree with his positions or not, there is a clear pattern of lying.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Tazz]

The world didn't change.


Tell that to the families of the 3,000 people killed that day. An attack against American civilians on our soil, that's not changing the world?

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[furie]

I see. I should answer the things you throw out, but you can ignore the stuff i say, is that it, HIGH FLY?


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[high fly]

FURIE ---Ahem, Clinton's not running.
The thing about Kosovo-- just what do you think Bush was talking about when he said he'd "get us out of the nation building process"?

He was talking about Kosovo, and he said he'd get us out of there as quickly as possible. At the time it sounded as if as soon as he got into office, he'd start moving towards bringing the troops home right away.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[high fly]

...so that's not changing the world?

It's not.
The world is the same.
Those bastards have been killing Americans for decades. Sure, things changed for the families of those murdered by the terrorists, but not the whole world.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[furie]

and I already agreed that he broke his promise on this issue, HIGH FLY. read.


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[high fly]

I did. So what did you want me to address that you brought up, FURIE?

" and they ask me why I drink"

[furie]

that clinton didn't keep his promise either, but that doesn't mean he lied. situations change for a president.

and what's with capitalizing my screenname HIGH FLY?


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This message was edited by furie on 11-19-03 @ 6:18 PM

[high fly]

FURIE-- I capitalize everyone's screen name. I guess it's from reading all them books about spies and espionage and all where code names of operations and spies are capitalized.
I kinda like the way it looks- stands out, y'know?

If the debate topic was Clinton vs, Bush, that would be one thing, but we're talking about assessing Bush's presidency and I've built a case supporting the idea that the man's word is no good.
If you feel that way about Clinton, fair enough. Please be consistent and give Bush the same level of opprobrium.





(tee hee-- I like dropping "opprobrium")

" and they ask me why I drink"

[East Side Dave]

Bush reminds me of Yoda from "Empire" before we found out that he was the Jedi Master.

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[high fly]

He's the Dan Snider of US presidents.He's in over his head, he doesn't know what he's doing, and nearly everything he tries blows up in his face.


He also brings to mind the old Lou Holtz quote when he was a disaster as coach of the Jets-- something like: "We all rise to the level of our incompetence".


" and they ask me why I drink"

[canofsoup15]

Man, I am sick of all the stupid Bush-Bashing, both at my school and here. Dislike him, Hate him, the fuck if i care, but just keep it to yuorselves, you cant do anything about it for another year so just deal with it until then and then you don;t have to vote for him again. I don't think hes being doing badly but i also don't think hes been doing good either, but imagine if you were him, do you honestly think you would do better? Most of the decisions he makes are coming from his cronies anyway, hes not just popping whatever the fuck comes to his mind out.

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[furie]

If you feel that way about Clinton, fair enough. Please be consistent and give Bush the same level of opprobrium.


again, I did. and i am consistent.

If the debate topic was Clinton vs, Bush, that would be one thing, but we're talking about assessing Bush's presidency


threads evolve.


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This message was edited by furie on 11-19-03 @ 7:57 PM

[high fly]

Dammit FURIE!
You've left me with nothing to bitch about.

I hope you're satisfied.




(harumph!)



" and they ask me why I drink"