New propaganda commercial

[shamus mcfitzy]

did you see the new ad council commercial with the cambodian guy talking about how he had no freedom in Cambodia? Now I'm not going on an anti-US slant as I usually do, I'm just asking what such a commercial advertises? At the end it flashes messages about being happy with the freedom that we have and it gives a website, but the message of the commercial is essentially "shut up liberals, we're #1/close to #1!!!!!!!"

[monsterone]

i don't see how it's propaganda. cambodia isn't that great of a place. positive promotion ups the morale of the people and is an effective tool when trying to unite a nation.



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you see, the kids, they listen to the rap music, which gives them the brain damage. with the hippin' and the hoppin' and the bippin' and the boppin'.

[ChrisTheCop]

I havent seen it, but these commercials sound like a good idea. Sometimes people really do need it drilled into their heads how lucky we are here. My only question is, who's paying for em?

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[shamus mcfitzy]

positive promotion ups the morale of the people and is an effective tool when trying to unite a nation.


well that's kinda my definition of propaganda. Propaganda isn't always horrible or bad, but this is propaganda nonetheless.

The Ad Council is paying for it or something. And I don't think that the American people need to be reminded of our freedoms. I think that if anything some Americans need to fall off their high horse into a bucket of AIDS.....but I'm gonna try and not bash America anymore. Just wanted to know if other people were just wierded out by it if they've see it.

[monsterone]

think of it in these terms: a 30 second commercial vs. 30ft bronze saddam statues. we're not doing too bad over here

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you see, the kids, they listen to the rap music, which gives them the brain damage. with the hippin' and the hoppin' and the bippin' and the boppin'.

[Yerdaddy]

The weird thing is that it's supposed to be about freedom in America. Is Cambodia really the standard by which we want to measure ourselves? Is it saying that much to say "Hey, we're doing better than Cambodians?" It would be better to say "Hey, while you're sitting on your asses watching Joe Millionaire, taking your freedoms for granted in the richest, most powerful country in the history of humanity, how about taking a little time out to see if your government is trying to spread some of that freedom to other places in the world? Maybe it would be good for us too?" That would make sense.

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TEAR THE BITCH APART!

[shamus mcfitzy]

think of it in these terms: a 30 second commercial vs. 30ft bronze saddam statues. we're not doing too bad over here


well yeah, obviously that's the fair comparison. "Well Iraq had big statues of Saddam". They also didn't have running water for a while. I'd like to think America is advanced enough to be above blatant propaganda. Maybe I missed it, but like 75% of the people in this country are so full of pride for the US they've actually been convinced to HATE the French. I just don't see the purpose of a commercial for the US. I can only think that the commercial is anti-liberal or pro Bush re-election. Or the Ad Council likes to piss away money.

[HBox]

Are these commercials from the same people who tried to convince me that marijuana supports terror, causes teenage pregnancy, and makes you shoot your friend?

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[Spank Daddy]

cambodia isn't that great of a place

I don't know about that........I heard you can get a lobster dinner there for, like a dollar.

[furie]

what do you mean close to #1?


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[shamus mcfitzy]

what do you mean close to #1?


I don't believe that the US is the bets country in the world, and I don't think I'm going out on a limb there. It's like #8 or something, it's definitely up there and it's a great place to live, but it's not #1 (there really can't be a #1)

and yes the ad council tells us that by buying pot, we are in fact raping 12 year old Columbians.

[monsterone]

every nation, in one way or another, shamelessly self-promotes itself. it seems like people are looking way too deep into a 30 sec commercial.

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you see, the kids, they listen to the rap music, which gives them the brain damage. with the hippin' and the hoppin' and the bippin' and the boppin'.

[keithy_19]

Good. I'm with monsterone on this one. We need a jolt of more unity in this country. I do feel that since 9/11 we've been more united, but I also feel we've slipped a lot since then. And America is number 1. What country is better then America?

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[carcass]

In my mind America will always be #1.. since 9/11..yeah we've lost alittle unity...as som much happens to divert out attention..[ arnold , fo starters]...next time they get through we'll be all neighborly again....


I dont really like tha ad council ads....the one where the cops stop the guy looking for newspapers.....substitute weed for papaers ...it happens here everyday...real free....

but america is and always will be home

face down in the gutter
wont admit defeat
thou his clothes are soiled and black
he's a big strong man , w/ a childs mind
dont you take his booze away

[NewYorkDragons80]

Propaganda comes from Latin meaning "to spread". It is the promotion of ideas with the intent of reaching a mass number of people. All advertisements, and the media in general, is inherently propaganda. Just thought I'd clear that up. Now you can go back to your little discussion.

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This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 10-23-03 @ 10:37 PM

[shamus mcfitzy]

And America is number 1. What country is better then America?


I like America and all, but i don't think it is the number 1 country to live in. I have a feeling i'd like living in at least Canada, Sweden, Switzerland, and the Netherlands better than the US. That's just a few that I can come up with off the top of my head. Maybe Finland, Norway, and Austrailia too.

[Yerdaddy]

wait for it...

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TEAR THE BITCH APART!

[TheMojoPin]

Why should I care how much of a "good" American people around me are? Or what they think of ME as an American? Kiss my ass and get off my lawn, queers.

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[Se7en]

I like America and all, but i don't think it is the number 1 country to live in. I have a feeling i'd like living in at least Canada, Sweden, Switzerland, and the Netherlands better than the US. That's just a few that I can come up with off the top of my head. Maybe Finland, Norway, and Austrailia too.

Fuck you, white boy. You honkeys have it better here than anywhere else.

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[carcass]

seamus, im not bustin on ya...but if ya think it would be better to live in the countries you mentioned , why do you live here?

face down in the gutter
wont admit defeat
thou his clothes are soiled and black
he's a big strong man , w/ a childs mind
dont you take his booze away

[TheMojoPin]

seamus, im not bustin on ya...but if ya think it would be better to live in the countries you mentioned , why do you live here?

I always thought it would be better to be living in America when I was living overseas, but I wasn't able to live here at the time. Sometime circumstances lead to certain decisions that put people in a situation that's not necessarily what they would choose or would be their first choice.

Personally, I'd rather live back in Chicago again instead of here in DC. But I'm here now because of where my life has taken me, and that's how it is for now. It doesn't mean I HATE DC...there's just other places in the country I think would be more enjoyable or better for me to live in, but I can't live there at the moment.

Just because someone might prefer living somewhere other than America doesn't mean they actually hate, oppose or even dislike America. STOP THE PITY PARTY.

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[sr71blackbird]

We are living in the greatest country in the world, and if you dont believe it, visit any other country. Europe doesnt even have decent toilets for Christs sake! Only here can we get away with trashing our own country and be defended to the death to protect your right to protest your own government!! We forget because we didnt have to fight for it, and when its gone, it aint comin' back, so cherish it while you have it.

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[TheMojoPin]

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[monsterone]

Just because someone might prefer living somewhere other than America doesn't mean they actually hate, oppose or even dislike America.


the thing is, it comes across as whiney and ungrateful.

now put it in family terms- it's that uncle who never has anything good to say about anything anyone in the family does. yet what is he doing for the family, besides complaining?

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<center>son of thunder</center>

[TheMojoPin]

the thing is, it comes across as whiney and ungrateful.

Why?

I don't get this "logic"...so only people who love America unconditionally can suggest that they might prefer living somewhere else? Of COURSE someone who has issues with things about America or what the government does is probably going to prefer or not mind living somewhere else.

I mean, do people honestly think that every single person who lives in this country would or should rather live here than anywhere else? It's a big world! Who CARES if someone would rather live someone else if they were able to or had the opportunity to? It doesn't mean they're not living a productive or happy life here at this moment. We're not all the same person...

Like I said, I'd rather be living in Chicago than here in DC. But the circumstances of my life keep me from doing so. How is this any different from someone who may not have a real problem with America, but would just prefer to live elsewhere if they had the ability to? A lot of people come to America because they want to learn or get a job and make money so they can go home and live a better life or finally live where they always wanted to live. That's the beauty of this place...we provide people the chance to accomplish this. The way people talk they seem to think that someone who may wish to live somewhere else is just sitting around, not doing anything productive or having a life and only complaining and griping against America.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 10-25-03 @ 12:59 AM

[monsterone]

mojo,
i am a definite conservative- always have been. shit, i practically jumped on the demo-con boat the same time as fezzie. it's reasonable to believe that most of us will get fustrated with politics and such, but bleeding heart liberals, as shamus claimed to be (not in so many words), seems to be more anti-american than anti-goverment.

"why do americans have to drive suv's when people are starving. why do we have commercials saying how great america is? - why isn't there one for cambodia? american's are so lazy and self centered. etc..."

granted we all have bad traits, and i feel america has the least of these bad traits. i've thought about living elsewhere, but really we have the greatest ammentities. it's only when you harp on these bad traits and act like elsewhere they don't exist, is annoying and whiney.

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<center>son of thunder</center>

[TheMojoPin]

Fair enough.

But one last time...so what?

Why should I care where Shamus, or any other American, would rather live? How could it possibly effect me or my life or your life? Why is the talk that people like him NEED to or SHOULD go? What actual harm is he doing?

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[monsterone]

so what? god built us with that flaw that makes us notice those insignificant details in detail.

america is fucked up, really fucked up. but in comparison to the rest of the world, we are the least fucked up, considering our sucess.

you have to figure we're doing something right if so many people are trying to get in. we should be grateful that we are the most privledged nation, through and through.




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<center>son of thunder</center>

[TheMojoPin]

But you don't think there ARE plenty of people who are grateful for that but still would live to prefer to live elsewhere? It doesn't HAVE to be a diabolical or malicious feeling.

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[high fly]

You're right, MO. Some may live elsewhere because they like a different climate.
Perhaps their job takes them there.
Maybe they just like the change of pace that another country provides.

I love the U.S. and consider myself a patriot. That doesn't mean that I couldn't enjoy living somewhere else for a time.
I wish I had the exact quote, but Ernest Hemmingway spoke beautifully on this point when describing how he rejected the term, "expatriot" to describe himself and other writers living abroad.
Although he lived long periods of his life in other countries, he never considered himself anything but a loyal American.
He said an "expatriot" was one who had rejected his own country and Mr. Hemmingway certainly did not.

In time spent in Europe, I have met many Americans as well as people from other countries who have lived elsewhere for years, but always considered themselves "Irishmen" or "Australians" or whatever.

" and they ask me why I drink"

This message was edited by high fly on 10-25-03 @ 2:44 PM

[Se7en]

Why should I care where Shamus, or any other American, would rather live?

You shouldn't. I don't.

It can get kind of annoying when THEY want to bitch and moan, though.

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[high fly]

Not to worry; it won't be long before Bush, Ashcroft & co. have stomped out all dissent.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[DarkHippie]

Not to worry; it won't be long before Bush, Ashcroft & co. have stomped out all dissent.
That's what the propaganda's for. . .

Booya!! Look at Hippie bring it all back home!!!

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[TheMojoPin]

It can get kind of annoying when THEY want to bitch and moan, though.

"THEY" or anyone?

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[shamus mcfitzy]

wow. This really wasn't supposed to be an anti-US thread. I voice an opinion, quite civilly I might add, and all of a sudden i'm whining? I was asked what countries I felt were better than America. I never came out and started going "why do americans have to drive suv's when people are starving. why do we have commercials saying how great america is? - why isn't there one for cambodia? american's are so lazy and self centered. etc..."

Hey.....that's actually from somebody's post......wow. Monsterone, did you really read my first post and get that. Because you're stupid then. Sorry to tell you, but you lack the reading comprehension necessary to function if that's how you understood any of my posts. I'm not trashing the US or Americans here. And the only time I can say that I remotely trash Americans is when they show their ignorance (trashing France for no good reason is an example)

Yerdaddy had the right idea when he pointed out that Cambodia isn't the standard. That was part of my point, the other part was proven by this thread. You guys didn't need to be reminded of your freedoms, you managed to bash me on what I guess you all considered a threat to America or something without having commercials telling you how great the US is.

carcass, the reason i don't leave is because i'm 18 and this country does have the best colleges in the world. My college enables me to study abroad, and I intend to do just that so that I can see what it's like in another country.

If you look at the post where I listed the 7 countries, I say that "I have a feeling i'd like living..." I don't know for sure. I can just determine that the US isn't my cup of tea in comparison to what I've heard of those other countries.


Only here can we get away with trashing our own country and be defended to the death to protect your right to protest your own government!!


yeah, I hear that they chop off your fingers in Germany if you try to even read a newspaper. It's not only here that one has freedoms. It's not the US against all the "evil other countries".


now put it in family terms- it's that uncle who never has anything good to say about anything anyone in the family does. yet what is he doing for the family, besides complaining?


i'm 18 and i'm a far-leftist. I can't do much to help the country right now. I do intend to become a teacher, so that if I do live in the US into my adult years I can help "the youth" of the country. I know i'm not gonna be doing it for the pay.

The US is one of maybe two dozen countries that would be outstanding to live in. If I just so happen to like another country better than here, do i become evil? (well if it's France...I guess I am) I'm not anti-America, #8 out of 200 aint bad. I'm anti-ignorant Americans/people. Unfortunately there are a lot of stupid people. I guess now this could be considered whining (which I didn't know that I could whine when I didn't respond once to being trashed for 4 days), but I had no idea that such offense was taken at an opinion that Mojo is right in saying shouldn't affect you.

[TheMojoPin]

I do intend to become a teacher

It strikes me as odd that conservative pundits LOVE to gripe about how "liberal" teachers have control of the educational system in America, yet traditionally it's more of the "lefty" types that want to go into teaching in the first place. I can count two people I know of who could be considered "conservative" who got into teaching, whereas I have at least a dozen "pinko" buddies who entered the field.

So shamus, what are you hoping to teach? I had always thought teaching history or creative writing would have been a lot of fun.

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[high fly]

(stupid double post)







This message was edited by high fly on 10-27-03 @ 1:15 PM

[high fly]

MOJO,




Social Studies.




Isn't it obvious?



" and they ask me why I drink"

[furie]

what do you mean close to #1?


I don't believe that the US is the bets country in the world, and I don't think I'm going out on a limb there. It's like #8 or something, it's definitely up there and it's a great place to live, but it's not #1 (there really can't be a #1)

and yes the ad council tells us that by buying pot, we are in fact raping 12 year old Columbians.



ok then, What do you mean #8?
What are you basing it on? What are the factors? You can't just make a statement like that and not give it a frame.

I can say that the Islanders are the best team in the leauge, and if I was judging it solely on teams east of the hudson owned by a chinese guy, then I'd be correct.


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[Se7en]

It strikes me as odd that conservative pundits LOVE to gripe about how "liberal" teachers have control of the educational system in America, yet traditionally it's more of the "lefty" types that want to go into teaching in the first place. I can count two people I know of who could be considered "conservative" who got into teaching, whereas I have at least a dozen "pinko" buddies who entered the field.

Not enough money in it for us conservatives.

We're all soulless money-grubbing bastards, remember.

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[TheMojoPin]

Gee, that wasn't really necessary. Way to not answer anything.

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[shamus mcfitzy]

teaching history


bingo. I somehow think I'd be better suited to being a professor and teaching history or political science. But I'm definitely not ruling out teaching high school. Also if I take enough credits in math I can also teach math (in NY at least). But history would definitely be the subject i'd most want to teach.


ok then, What do you mean #8?
What are you basing it on? What are the factors? You can't just make a statement like that and not give it a frame.


Remember, I'm basing it on where I would want to live. Not on any factor that should affect anyone else. I'm not saying for example that Canada is better as a country. I'm saying that it is above the US on a list of country's I BELIEVE I would like to live in. It was a vague statement, but one I definitely stick to.

The 7 countries that I gave would all have MORE accepting political environments to people who are, to some degree, socialists. Socialized medicine is definitely a plus for me. For policial reasons alone I could list those countries and be pretty sure I'd be making a good decision. But, those countries also have more liberties than the US, with just legalized drugs as an example, and therefore I consider them better countries to live in. They also tend to be more neutral and "level-headed" countries. (well Austrailia might be an exception to the conditions that I gave above, but from what I've heard from people I know, it seems like I might like life better there).

Also, although I could've easily chosen countries like Germany or France for this qualification, they all have smarter people in general. I know there are stupid people everywhere, but less would be better. In that same vein, those countries do not really have blindfully patriotic citizens in general. The Swiss for example, may be very patriotic, but they are patriotic as a multi-cultural society and therefore on a more international level.

And Norway is definitely #7 if they're not below the US. They might be the country I regret listing them the most because they kind of have a scumbag government. So I'd like to remove them. And replace them with Denmark. Once again #8 is in the top 4 percentile of countries. To want to call yourself any better than 5th percentile is still pretty patriotic considering.

and i think furie's ModQuote has to be the best on the board

[TheMojoPin]

So does everyone get it now?

PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

He said it himself...he's not deciding what countries are better than America for everyone else...he's simply stating where he'd PREFER to live HIMSELF if he had the options.

Whereas everyone else seems to have no problem deciding what's best FOR him.

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[shamus mcfitzy]

somebody will still have something to say.....I guarantee it