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Teenweek
09-12-2003, 04:30 AM
I really do not see what is so special about him. He was a failure in WCW and a failure in WWE. He is not an athlete. His wrestling is not very good. His promos are all the same. He looks like a freak. Why do so many people like him.

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thefngame
09-12-2003, 05:39 AM
what about me what about raven!!!!!!!!


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walking joint
09-12-2003, 06:20 AM
for me it goes back to ECW. he was the man there. he had a great storyline with Sandman and Tommy Dreamer. i loved the stuff with him and Brian Lee vs Terry Funk.
His character is my opinion is awesome. and not the WWE or WCW version of it. and if he is motivated he busts his ass in the ring.

Se7en
09-12-2003, 07:09 AM
I'll try and go through this point by point to give my opinions.

I really do not see what is so special about him. He was a failure in WCW and a failure in WWE.

Okay - at least we seem to be operating under the assumption that he was a success in ECW.

WCW - I wouldn't call him a "failure". Would you label Chris Jericho as a failure there? After all, Jericho was in much the same situation as Raven in WCW - both were very over with the fans, both seemed at times to be flirting with breaking into the upper card, both were prevented from doing so. I wouldn't call his tenure in WCW as a failure, but it was a disappointment. Half of that is his fault - he was HEAVY into drugs then; the other half was the usual WCW shit about not pushing "new" stars who could have kept them on top for years to come.

I wouldn't call his WWE tenure a failure either, as no one in the company really cared much for him, so he was never booked into any important programs. What he did do there, though, he did well. He actually made Heat a watchable program (like former Raven acolyte Stevie Richards has done in the past few weeks).

He is not an athlete. His wrestling is not very good.

The same can be said for Mick Foley, but the man is a legend. Why?

Because Foley & Raven have similar styles - what they lack in technical skills, they make up in psychology and brawling / hardcore skills. And, much like Foley, Raven has one very important ability - to sell his fucking ass off. He can take a BEATING and make it believable. Any worker who can do that effectively has some degree of staying power (look at Spike Dudley) in the business (so long as their body holds up). Simply put, guys like Foley & Raven can get the shit kicked out of them and make you FEEL it, which makes their comebacks all the more intriguing.

His promos are all the same.

The themes perhaps. But Raven is an intelligent man, and very articulate, which more than can be said about MOST of the next generation of worker these days.

He looks like a freak.

Thanks in part to Vince, a good - or interesting - look is key in the business today. There are many guys out there (in the WWE alone) who are just vanilla. At the least, Raven has a distinctive and interesting look, and that works for him.

Why do so many people like him.

In addition to all my previous statements, the character simply has an "it" factor about him. Maybe it's just the rebel archetype that we all in some way relate to, but bottom line, the character is cool. He will ALWAYS have at LEAST a cult following, if not a sizable fanbase.

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hatetreehighway
09-12-2003, 09:50 AM
raven is god...
he just was never used right..
so to say he has no talent is ridiculous...

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RF Godfather
09-12-2003, 10:17 AM
Wow Eric another thing that surprised me about your wrestling views. You do not like Raven? He is a god in wrestling. What else do I have to say?

Raven deserved better than the nonsense he got in WCW and WWE. I guess they never saw the real talent he is. Thank God he is in TNA where he gets the respect he rightfully deserves. His World Title reign will come in the next 2 months, guaranteed!

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Death Metal Moe
09-12-2003, 10:19 AM
Raven never impressed me either.

Raven=Kitchen time.

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Fallon
09-12-2003, 12:16 PM
I've always thought his promos were unique, but as far as in the ring he was nothing special.

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Freebird
09-12-2003, 04:28 PM
Now keep in mind that I'm someone who never saw Raven in his ECW or WCW days. I knew a little about who he was and some history when he came to the WWF. He started out pretty strong and had the audience with him, even as a villain. It was a shame he seemed to be mostly ignored and put into ridiculous storylines that helped neither him nor the others involved.

What stands out to me was his PPV match against Rhyno. At a time when the hardcore matches were mostly clownish prop-fests, these two put on a show that the crowd loved and was outstanding in a brutal way. This was a match with nothing on the line (title-wise) and it STILL captivated the audience. I never cared much for the hardcore matches, but this match stood out to me because it relied mostly on the wrestlers and not the props, a turn away from the general WWF-style hardcore.

I liked Raven's character and presence, and his ringwork fit the way he acted. When his promos didn't rant too much and didn't stick too closely to the catchphrase-style patter, Raven could really make things happen. I'm glad he's done well in TNA. I would think he can be great to watch live.

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Heather 8
09-12-2003, 04:30 PM
I really do not see what is so special about him. He was a failure in WCW... He is not an athlete. His wrestling is not very good. His promos are all the same. He looks like a freak. Why do so many people like him.


If not for the ''Failure in WWe'' comment, I'd almost swear you were talking bout Trips.

Shut up, I had to say it. :)

I've been a fan since his Scotty the Body days in the indies. The man can reinvent himself beautifully, from aerial hardbody to polo-mallet wielding manager (OK, so that sucked), to the mind-fucking Raven. While not the best wrestler, he was, in my opinion, always interesting to watch; his classic feuds with Tommy Dreamer and Sandman are testaments to that. He's also scarily intelligent, and quite interesting to talk to. But, as usual these days, Vince doesn't have a fucking clue how to best use him, so he tosses him away.

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PanterA
09-12-2003, 11:55 PM
Why does Everyone like Raven?Cause when you have to choose between him or Jeff Jarrett.....you're forced to like Raven.

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ToddEVF
09-13-2003, 03:33 AM
I've been a fan since his Scotty the Body days in the indies. The man can reinvent himself beautifully, from aerial hardbody to polo-mallet wielding manager (OK, so that sucked), to the mind-fucking Raven. While not the best wrestler, he was, in my opinion, always interesting to watch; his classic feuds with Tommy Dreamer and Sandman are testaments to that. He's also scarily intelligent, and quite interesting to talk to. But, as usual these days, Vince doesn't have a fucking clue how to best use him, so he tosses him away.

http://members.tripod.com/~retro4/raven.gif
http://members.tripod.com/~retro4/jpolo.jpg
http://scottlevy.hypermart.net/media/images/ecw/ecw004.jpg
http://scottlevy.hypermart.net/media/images/wcw/raven526.jpg
http://scottlevy.com/wwf/wwf1.jpg
http://scottlevy.hypermart.net/media/images/wwf/wwf682.jpg
http://scottlevy.hypermart.net/media/images/nwa/nwa257.jpg

look at his evolution. i can thank Peachy because her post inspired me

*edit*
i missequenced the wcw and ecw shot, i'm a retard

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This message was edited by ToddEVF on 9-13-03 @ 7:38 AM

RF Godfather
09-14-2003, 02:55 AM
But, as usual these days, Vince doesn't have a fucking clue how to best use him, so he tosses him away. BINGO, we have a weiner!

The answer to all your wrestling questions! Read above!

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III

hatetreehighway
09-15-2003, 11:15 AM
rfm is the only on that understands...
the rest well .. you know....

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