Wesley Clark

[Doomstone]

Just a question to you folks here: If Wesley Clark decides to run against Bush in 2004, would you vote for him?

At this point, I'd vote for the shit I took this morning over Bush, but since my shit isn't running and the rest of the Dem candidates don't impress me at all, I'd definitely support this guy should he choose to run.

Info on Clark (http://www.draftwesleyclark.com/)

[HBox]

I don't know enough about his views to support him. Everything on that site was too vague for me get an idea of his stances. However, he is a four-star general AND a successful investment banker. That alone is promising enough. He's the only candidate who could possibly tread the thin line between opposing the Iraq war AND still managing to trump Bush on defense.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[Yerdaddy]

I think Clark is the leading Vice-Presidential candidate. He's going to be courted as such by whomever comes out on top of the democratic primary. In that capacity I like him alot.

<IMG SRC="http://czm.racknine.net/images/yersig.gif">
CZM productions

FREE ASS!

[curtoid]

I like him a lot. There's some scuttle out there, though, that will be brought out from his days in the military.

(Radio Psychic: Someone will post something on here trying to prove that he almost started World War 3!)

He still has time to throw his hat in the ring; the last time a Rhodes Scholar Democrat ran for president against a George Bush that won a war with Iraq, he didn't throw his hat into the ring until October.

That said...I don't think he'll run, and agree that he would help bolster someone as the Vice President candidate - especially Dean, who will be painted as soft on the military because he was against the war.

A Dean/Clark ticket would have a lot of appeal to a lot of people, and might be enough to keep Nader from running again.

[KOP]

[Se7en]

Well, he's one of the more far-left individuals out there.

On that fact alone, all three of you gentlemen should absolutely vote for him.

He doesn't stand a chance in hell of getting the nomination, though.

<img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/captainamerica.jpg" width="300" height="100">
<br>
<br>
Is the Captain a member of the proud <b>2%</b>?

[Doomstone]

Well, he's one of the more far-left individuals out there.

How so? He seems like the most moderate (farthest to the right) of any of the potential Dem candidates to me.

Which, as a former evil Republican, I like. He's definitely not as far to the left as Kucinich, Kerry, or Dean. Or Sharpton, or Clinton...

[DarkHippie]

Actually Seven, Clark is quite moderate (although i don't think people realize just how conservative Bush is; it makes everyone else seem liberal).

I would vote for Clark, because even though i am to the left of his beliefs, I have always felt that the primary job of the President is to unite, and for that, someone with moderate views is best. someone who can get the Legislature to work together. someone who won't appoint radical judges. Someone who can work with other nations.


<IMG SRC=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/darkhippie2.gif>
<marquee>"Last night I went running through the screen door of discression, for I woke up from a nightmare that I could not stand to see. You were a-wandering out on the hills of Iowa and you were not thinking of me." Dar Williams "Traveling III (Iowa)"</marquee>

[HBox]

I would vote for Clark, because even though i am to the left of his beliefs, I have always felt that the primary job of the President is to unite, and for that, someone with moderate views is best. someone who can get the Legislature to work together. someone who won't appoint radical judges. Someone who can work with other nations.

Wait a sec. Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else, but didn't you vote for Nader last time?

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

This message was edited by HBox on 8-9-03 @ 10:25 PM

[TheMojoPin]

Well, I can't speak for Hippie, but *I* voted for Nader not with the intention of thinking he'd win or even wanting him to do so. I simply wanted the Greens to get the federal funding so that there might possibly be a viable politcal "third party" (At least on a local level nationwide, as was most likely) that would hopefully kickstart both the Republicans AND the Democrats from the "middle malaise" they had settled into. I agree with HBox that a president does need to straddle both parties in terms of keeping the government united, but when the parties as a WHOLE start sounding the same on ALL levels of government and election, something doesn't feel right. We have SO many representatives in theory to represent as much of the different aspects of the American public as possible, yet for the last ten years they've practically all been sliding towards the middle and not really representing ANYONE. But alas, Gore cried wolf, and it was all for naught. At least I'd like to think I helped keep that fat, lying Clinton-spawn out of office. As much as I disagree with Bush, he's pretty much upfront with the things that I oppose (Not always, but usually). Gore presented himself as the "Democrats/Left/Liberal" choice, and nothing could have been further from the truth. His roundabout, hypocritical decisions and actions as an "environmentalist" alone make me despise him. He and Democrats like Clinton and Lieberman make me ill.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TheMojoPin]

How so?

Se7en doesn't like websites with bright colors.

And I like Clark just because he's got the funniest response I've ever seen a politician give on gun control.

He also believes that assault weapons should be banned for the general public, stating, "people who like assault weapons they should join the United States Army, we have them." (CNN's Crossfire, 06/25/03)

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 8-9-03 @ 10:57 PM

[HBox]

Well, I can't speak for Hippie, but *I* voted for Nader not with the intention of thinking he'd win or even wanting him to do so. I simply wanted the Greens to get the federal funding so that there might possibly be a viable politcal "third party" (At least on a local level nationwide, as was most likely) that would hopefully kickstart both the Republicans AND the Democrats from the "middle malaise" they had settled into.

Well, I certainly agree that the Democrats are suffering from that "middle malaise." (Everytime the DLC opens their mouth I want to puke. I've never seen a more counterproductive "leadership.")But I do not agree that the Republicans are like that. Not when ultra-conservatives like Tom DeLay and Rick Santorum have the kind of power they do.

And while it would be great to see a third party, I'd be satisified getting a viable second party back.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[TheMojoPin]

I can see that. And I'll readily and loudly admit that I feel it's the Democrats who need a kick to the jimmy FAR more than the Republicans...

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Mothball]

Green Party is the future.

[Recyclerz]

Gore cried wolf, and it was all for naught. At least I'd like to think I helped keep that fat, lying Clinton-spawn out of office. As much as I disagree with Bush, he's pretty much upfront with the things that I oppose (Not always, but usually). Gore presented himself as the "Democrats/Left/Liberal" choice, and nothing could have been further from the truth. His roundabout, hypocritical decisions and actions as an "environmentalist" alone make me despise him. He and Democrats like Clinton and Lieberman make me ill.

Ah Mojo, heightening the contradictions, are we?

That didn't work out so well the first time (Lenin) nor the second (the faux Marxists of the '60's), so I'm not so sure the third time will be the charm.

There's an old saying that goes: don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. And while neither perfect nor good may be appropriate to describe Al Gore, the concepts and principles that seem to matter to you in these politico threads wouldn't be slipping away quite as quickly as they are under W if he had won.

I first voted in 1980 (Anderson, if it matters) so I've lived as an adult through Reagan, Bush I, Clinton and now W. As a self-described liberal (on most issues), every once in a while it felt like ol' Bill would give me a sharp kick to the 'nads on an issue I cared about. I had that feeling almost daily under Reagan and now even more frequently with his philosophical mentee. And when someone is putting the boots to my nuts, I think less is better.

And if we don't elect a Democrat once in awhile, our buddy Se7en will start to get soft.

I have to go pass out now.



There ain't no asylum here.
King Solomon, he never lived 'round here.

[Bergalad]

people who like assault weapons they should join the United States Army, we have them.

Based on that quote alone I wouldn't vote for him. Completely misguided. Clark won't get the nomination, although he has been kicking around the idea for a while. He fancies himself as another Ike, but that's not gonna happen. And moderate Democrats? How many do we need? Liebernman is already running, and you can't get more moderate that that. But really, Bush is going to win again, like it or not. The only person who can give him any sort of challenge would has the last name of Clinton or maybe Gore, and both of those said they are out for now. Accept the inevitable and let's all have ice cream.

[Se7en]

C'mon, guys.

The fact that so many of you, what I like to affectionately refer to as "wrong-thinking Americans", like the guy, tells me I don't want him anywhere near the White House.

<img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/captainamerica.jpg" width="300" height="100">
<br>
<br>
Is the Captain a member of the proud <b>2%</b>?

[high fly]

Three items in his biography got my attention and, as far as I'm concerned, make him worthy of serious attention.
They are:

Purple Heart

Silver Star

Bronze Star (though the bio doesn't mention the 'V' device)

I want a Commander in Chief with some combat experience, one who has seen war up close and personal, and so won't be as cavalier as the current president in spending American lives abroad.
Clarke not only has that experience, but he also apparently performed superbly on the field of battle.
In the long war against terrorism ahead, a man with Clarke's abilities, background, courage, education and experience would be a plus.


" and they ask me why I drink"

[TheMojoPin]

That didn't work out so well the first time (Lenin) nor the second (the faux Marxists of the '60's), so I'm not so sure the third time will be the charm.

WHAT didn't work? I didn't say anywhere in the quote I wanted to change the political system itself. I simply want the people that supposedly represent at least SOME of my political beliefs to NOT end up being total hypocrites once they take some kind of elected office. Call it naive, because it's definitely that, but how the hell is that sentiment even close to being communism?

I don't like Clinton and Gore because they're essentially liars by calling themselves Democrats. I don't expect them to be anything even close to "far left" or "radical", nor would I want them to be. But when they're essentially moderate Republicans in all but the name, I don't like it, and I don't have to take it. It always comes back to the notion that I should have somehow happily "settled" for having Gore in office, which I find absolutely appalling. I can't stand the man, but I should vote him in because he maybe gets a "D-" to Bush's "F"? Please.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TheMojoPin]

The fact that so many of you, what I like to affectionately refer to as "wrong-thinking Americans", like the guy, tells me I don't want him anywhere near the White House.

Read the site, dingus.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[HBox]

The fact that so many of you, what I like to affectionately refer to as "wrong-thinking Americans", like the guy, tells me I don't want him anywhere near the White House.


http://images.radcity.net/5157/217838.jpg

http://www.paulreveresociety.com/files/savage2.jpg

http://images.radcity.net/5152/172905.jpg

http://www.wdrc.com/billoreilly.jpg

They're smiling because they know they've done their job.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[high fly]

Standing O for HBOX

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Doomstone]

The fact that so many of you, what I like to affectionately refer to as "wrong-thinking Americans", like the guy, tells me I don't want him anywhere near the White House.

Wonderful. But that still doesn't explain how Clark is "one of the more far-left individuals out there". Or did you just hear someone on Fox News say that, thus making it an indisputable fact?

[high fly]

He saw it on a t-shirt.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Se7en]

Wonderful. But that still doesn't explain how Clark is "one of the more far-left individuals out there". Or did you just hear someone on Fox News say that, thus making it an indisputable fact?


Damn it, you've got me pegged.

Because it's just so much easier to label me a "dittohead" rather than to just accept the fact that I have a different point of view.

I had thought that more of you would realize that I was joking with the "wrong-thinking American" remark, but as usual, it was proven that conservatives have not yet cornered the market on being humorless.

Oh and Hbox - the only one of those men I have ever listened to is O'Reilly. And that's pretty much because I'm too lazy to turn the dial after R&F go off the air.

<img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/captainamerica.jpg" width="300" height="100">
<br>
<br>
Is the Captain a member of the proud <b>2%</b>?

[HBox]

I had thought that more of you would realize that I was joking with the "wrong-thinking American" remark, but as usual, it was proven that conservatives have not yet cornered the market on being humorless.

You were joking in a "Oh, I'm just joking.......[size=1]but not really" kind of way.

And I wasn't suggesting that you were a dittohead. It's the rampant intolerance for other views that seems to be ingrained in all of those hosts whose pics I posted. I know that's something we all do, it's just that comment hit me the wrong way in the worst possble moment. So, I guess I'm sorry.....[size=1]but not really.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[Doomstone]

Damn it, you've got me pegged.

Because it's just so much easier to label me a "dittohead" rather than to just accept the fact that I have a different point of view.

I had thought that more of you would realize that I was joking with the "wrong-thinking American" remark, but as usual, it was proven that conservatives have not yet cornered the market on being humorless.

Oh and Hbox - the only one of those men I have ever listened to is O'Reilly. And that's pretty much because I'm too lazy to turn the dial after R&F go off the air.

Still doesn't explain how Wesley Clark is "one of the more far-left individuals out there".

[high fly]

Yeah, that there Wesley Clarke is a regular Abbie Hoffman, he is.
Wasn't he one of the Chicago 8 or something?
Or was he too busy being a hero back then?

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Se7en]

Well, he does seem to think that America was founded upon communism.

Meet the Press, June 15. (http://www.msnbc.com/news/927000.asp)

Someone should tell him that progressive taxation was deemed unconstitutional.

Oh, and that whole idea is Point 2 of Marx's Communist Manifesto.


Or was he too busy being a hero back then?


These people don't seem to agree. (http://www.iacenter.org/warcrime/wct2000.htm)

But I'm with Clark on that one.

<img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/captainamerica.jpg" width="300" height="100">
<br>
<br>
Is the Captain a member of the proud <b>2%</b>?

[Yerdaddy]

Someone should tell him that progressive taxation was deemed unconstitutional.
Someone should tell the IRS.
Oh, and that whole idea is Point 2 of Marx's Communist Manifesto.
That wasn't Marx that was Nikolai Volkoff.
These people don't seem to agree.

But I'm with Clark on that one.
Then why post it?


<IMG SRC="http://czm.racknine.net/images/yersig.gif">
CZM productions

FREE ASS!

[high fly]

I think his logic went something like: "My opinion on Clarke is stated in this link that I don't agee with"

" and they ask me why I drink"

[DarkHippie]

Well, he does seem to think that America was founded upon communism.
ahem. Seven, progressive taxation = tax brackets. There is no flat tax in America. you have to some crazy "no spin zone" spin on that to equate it to Communism.

BTW: marxism was developed in the mid-19th century, the constitution was written some 80 years beforehand. Your spin is flawed.

<IMG SRC=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/darkhippie2.gif>
<marquee>"Last night I went running through the screen door of discression, for I woke up from a nightmare that I could not stand to see. You were a-wandering out on the hills of Iowa and you were not thinking of me." Dar Williams "Traveling III (Iowa)"</marquee>

[high fly]

Your spin is flawed

That's ok, just as long as it fits on a bumper sticker...

" and they ask me why I drink"

[TheMojoPin]

The man said it himself..."we can do better".

DRAFT WES!

Se7en no doubts thinks this is still the second coming of Trotsky, but so far this seems like the candidate who has the right balance of pretty much everything I want to see in a president.

Curious how "fair and balanced" Fox broke away every time Arnold did anything more than fart in a local state election, but couldn't be bothered to give five minutes to a national candidate with a genuine groundswell of public support announcing his running. Ah, but who cares...there's too many of those "Dims" to begin with!

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Def Dave in SC]

Wesley Clark


ROCK AND ROLL MCDONALDS! ROCK AND ROLL MCDONALDS!

Rock over London, Rock on Chicago!

<img src="http://satcam.4t.com/sig_defdaveindc.gif">
Much Love to my Homies dcpete, Todd EVF, Pantera, Tall_James, Saddlelight Kam (sp?) and everyone else who made me a sig


UCF:AYBABTU

This message was edited by Def Dave in DC on 9-17-03 @ 5:35 PM

[Se7en]

Gen. Clark Not 'Abrasive, Impractical Know-It-All'
(2003-09-17) -- Retired General Wesley Clark, who plans to declare his candidacy for the Democrat presidential nomination today, said he's "not the abrasive, impractical know-it-all" some of his former colleagues say he is.

According to a Washington Post story, Gen. Clark is viewed by many associates as a "brilliant" analyst, who often proposes "goofy" solutions and annoys everyone in the process.

"I am not abrasive, no matter what those pot-bellied, medieval morons at the Pentagon tell you," Gen. Clark said. "And my solutions are as brilliant as my analysis. When I'm President, I'm going to fill the Pentagon up with water, so these clock-watching desk jockeys will get some aerobic exercise."

Hmm, maybe I should say something nice about Clark.....

.....um......

.....he's slightly less annoying than Dean?

There, you twisted my arm.

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/KyoSe7en.jpg" width="300" height="125">
<br>
<br>
Resistance is <b>FLAMMABLE.</b></center>

[TheMojoPin]

Well, THAT clinched it.

Oh, wait, no it didn't.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[curtoid]

Are the "Greens" more or less likely to compete in the 2004 election if Clark is the Dem's candidate?



http://www.gdarkness.com/4degrees/nurple-kingopain.gif

[TheMojoPin]

The Greens are focused mostly on local city and state and county elections these days. They took a shot at the big one with Nader to attempt to get the federal funding that 7% of the vote provides. No dice.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[NewYorkDragons80]

However, he is a four-star general AND a successful investment banker.
And I think we all know what a pisser it is to get a job in the private sector after retiring as a 4-star general.

I will probably vote for Bush, but I wouldn't be that upset if Wesley Clark was elected. I supported the War with Iraq, but I think we treated the Germans and the Russians with the utmost disrespect, and I think a former NATO commander could repair that. That being said, he's Clinton with a service record.

It strikes me as beyond fishy when Michael Moore makes a movie that basically says "Blame the Kosovo War for Columbine", then writes an open letter requesting the leader of that operation to seek the highest office in the country. Fat baldfaced lying hypocrite fuck.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[TheMojoPin]

It strikes me as beyond fishy when Michael Moore makes a movie that basically says "Blame the Kosovo War for Columbine", then writes an open letter requesting the leader of that operation to seek the highest office in the country. Fat baldfaced lying hypocrite fuck.

*DING-DING-DING!*

THANK YOU.

I'm as lefty as they come AND I'm a huge fan of Moore's first couple films and TV shows, but "Columbine" and his book "Stupid White Men" are so horrendously wrong, falsefied, and spun that it completely threw me off his "bandwagon". He's a total insitgator pundit at this point and no better than Al Franken, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter and the rest of their ilk. BAH.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Yerdaddy]

I'm with se7en, he's obviously a communist. That's just so obvious that if you don't know it you're just blind. And I'm not saying that just because he's obviously not a knee-jerk liberal and might have chance to beat my boy and that threatens me.

<IMG SRC="http://www.mrbill.com/spbill7.jpg">

[A.J.]

pundit

Uh-oh. Mojo's using that word again.

<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">
A Skidmark production.

Red Sox Nation

[42nd-delay]

I'm skeptical that he has the personality to appeal to the public as a candidate. Does he have charisma? His credentials on foreign policy may be impressive, but in the end how many presidents have been elected based on this f.p. experience? Certainly Bush wasn't.

------------------------------
"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

[El Mudo]

I like how Limbaugh was calling him "Ashley Wilkes"...that was pretty funny...

I still wonder how the left will get over its hate of the military to put a General on the ticket...

http://home.t-online.de/home/a.peichl/shield.gif
Representin' for the Maryland District of RAIDER NATION

[curtoid]

Even if he doesn't get the nod from the democrats, he will be a more attractive VIP candidate for having run in the first place.



http://www.gdarkness.com/4degrees/nurple-kingopain.gif

[TheMojoPin]

I still wonder how the left will get over its hate of the military to put a General on the ticket...

Man, all this hooplah and me without my "FUCK THE FUCKING MILLITARY UP ITS FUCKING ASS" t-shirt.

I'd say I'd expect all the conservatives to be running around with "I RAPED THE ENVIRONMENT AND HATE BLACK PEOPLE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS STUPID T-SHIRT", but then I remembered that that's just a retarded stereotype. WHOOPSIES.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 9-18-03 @ 2:15 PM

[Recyclerz]

I still wonder how the left will get over its hate of the military to put a General on the ticket...


Our distrust and disdain for this Bush regime will force us to do many "crazy" things, like support candidates who have shown their patriotism through a life-long, stellar career in service to this country and who appear to be willing to govern in the interest of the many, rather than to enhance the privileges of the few. ;)

I sent my first $100 in last night.



There ain't no asylum here.
King Solomon, he never lived 'round here.

[Se7en]

I like how Limbaugh was calling him "Ashley Wilkes"...that was pretty funny...

I still wonder how the left will get over its hate of the military to put a General on the ticket...


Are you kidding?

Clark was one of Clinton's boys. Democrats will line up to blow him almost as fast as they did for Howard Dean.

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/KyoSe7en.jpg" width="300" height="125">
<br>
<br>
Resistance is <b>FLAMMABLE.</b></center>

[A.J.]

I like how Limbaugh was calling him "Ashley Wilkes"...that was pretty funny...

Hopefully he won't refer to Carol Moseley-Braun as "Mammy" or "Prissy".

<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">
A Skidmark production.

Red Sox Nation

[HBox]

The horribly hidden fear conservatives have of Clark amuses me to no end.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[NewYorkDragons80]

I really disagree with Roger & Me, but at least he was honest and didn't make shit up. On the other hand, Bowling for Columbine took a bunch of numbers and just threw them out there. For instance, he said the United States killed 4 million Vietnamese during the Vietnam War. 4 million is the total number of Vietnamese killed during the Vietnam War, and he knows it. How the fuck does someone go to bed at night when they've made a career out of filth like that?

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[HBox]

All of Moore's films are highly manipulative, including ROger and Me. But he's done it more and more as his career has progessed.

However, one thing from Bowling from Columbine is worth checking out. At the end he talks to a guy named Barry Glasner who wrote a book entitled "The Culture of Fear." It is definitely a book worth reading.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[curtoid]

At the end he talks to a guy named Barry Glasner who wrote a book entitled "The Culture of Fear." It is definitely a book worth reading.

That was the best part of the movie - I wish he had followed that aspect more. As it was, the movie got kind of all over the map.

We are a nation that is conditioned to be afraid of everything.



http://www.gdarkness.com/4degrees/nurple-kingopain.gif

[TheMojoPin]

However, one thing from Bowling from Columbine is worth checking out. At the end he talks to a guy named Barry Glasner who wrote a book entitled "The Culture of Fear." It is definitely a book worth reading.

Good call. I picked that book up when it first came out and almost jumped up when I saw the author show up in "Columbine". And then I remembered everything else I saw and sulked.

Clark was one of Clinton's boys. Democrats will line up to blow him almost as fast as they did for Howard Dean.

Blinders-wearing Bush fans really shouldn't bring up "blowing" these days.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Doomstone]

<b>GOP On Petition Drive To Recall Clark Announcement</b>

The GOP has collected hundreds of thousands of signatures, mostly from Karl Rove, so they can "go to court immediately" to recall Wesley Clark's announcement that he is running for President.

The GOP is being joined in the action by lobbyists on behalf of tort reform, who say that "Wesley Clark will do nothing to stem the tide of litigation that is destroying our country."

Republicans are also exploring other ways to use the courts to block Clark's candidacy. The RNC is seeking a permanent injunction to stop Clark from entering the race, on the grounds that it would constitute an infringement of their alleged trademark, Presidentr.

The White House is considering an action to recover three of General Clark's four stars. A spokesman for the White House declined to say on what ground they were proceeding, except to say, "They're our stars and he can't have them. That's our position."

Another possible tactic would be to increase the highest rank of a General to twelve stars, so that four stars does "not seem like so much of a big deal," said one unnamed staffer.

Karl Rove could not be reached for comment. He was said to be resting his hand.

[NewYorkDragons80]

That would be relevant if recalling Presidential candidates was legal.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[silera]

That would be relevant if recalling Presidential candidates was legal.


Reading comprehension at its finest.


<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[NewYorkDragons80]

I know it's a joke, I just don't think it's funny because it's irrelevant. I'm sick of the bullshit liberals who say "This recall is undemocratic, unless we elect Bustamante, of course."

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[silera]

I know it's a joke, I just don't think it's funny because it's irrelevant. I'm sick of the bullshit liberals who say "This recall is undemocratic, unless we elect Bustamante, of course."

"They're our stars and he can't have them. That's our position."

COMEDY GOLD!!!

Your inability to find humor in it is just reflective of the fact that everything's funny until it hits close to home. By your logic, I shouldn't find pregant spic on foodstamps with 6 kids and 4 baby daddy's hysterical.

It's a stereotype, based in truth, exaggerated for comedic affect, and absofuckinglutely funny.



<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[NewYorkDragons80]

Your inability to find humor in it is just reflective of the fact that everything's funny until it hits close to home. By your logic, I shouldn't find pregant spic on foodstamps with 6 kids and 4 baby daddy's hysterical.

It's a stereotype, based in truth, exaggerated for comedic affect, and absofuckinglutely funny.
http://images.salon.com/comics/tomo/2000/08/14/tomo/story.gif

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[NewYorkDragons80]

http://images.salon.com/comics/tomo/2001/03/19/tomo/story.gif
http://images.salon.com/comics/tomo/2001/01/16/tomo/story.gif
Note: I am biased to that last one since Back to the Future is the greatest movie that has been made or will be made.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[silera]

Comic strips rarely do it for me.



<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[high fly]

Just imagine this in the debates:

Clarke: ".......and so that's how I got wounded fighting for my country.
(turns to Bush)
"So, uh what did you do in the war, Mr. President?"

" and they ask me why I drink"

[NewYorkDragons80]

So high fly, you agree with American support for anti-communism in post-WWII Southeast Asia?

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[high fly]

I agree with supporting anti-communism efforts in SE Asia back in the 60s.

I also feel that wasting over 50,000 of our nation's finest was wrong.

I also admire Clarke for serving his country with honor as well as distinguishing himself on the battlefield that Bush hid from.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[NewYorkDragons80]

I agree with supporting anti-communism efforts in SE Asia back in the 60s.

I also feel that wasting over 50,000 of our nation's finest was wrong.
Now I'm confused.

I think the Vietnam War was justified, but I don't know what you mean here.

I happen to be the son of a Vietnam veteran, but I don't think that serving in this conflict neccessarily makes Clark any more or less qualified than Bush.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[TheMojoPin]

I think he's trying to say it would give Clark a better (Or at least different) perspective when he has to consider something like going to war with another country or sending troops into battle.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[HBox]

It also says something about the character of a person who serves when his country calls him opposed to someone who uses his father to get him a cushy post away from combat, and then can't even do that.

And this goes for Dean too, who got out of the draft on a medical excuse, and then went skiing. Or Clinton, for that matter.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[joshG]

It just shows you how small the gap between Democrats and Republicans is. I mean come on, a democratic general? It's hard to believe, but anyway we need more variety in politics. We need to "shake it up" as farell would say. I won't vote for him.

[TheMojoPin]

It's hard to believe, but anyway we need more variety in politics. We need to "shake it up" as farell would say. I won't vote for him.

What th-?!? My head hurts.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[CaptClown]

Just a question to you folks here: If Wesley Clark decides to run against Bush in 2004, would you vote for him?
I may. I don't know enough about him yet.


(Radio Psychic: Someone will post something on here trying to prove that he almost started World War 3!)

You mean like wanting to attack the Russians when they secured the Kosovo airport be fore he could get NATO troops to do it? Given enough time someone will find something on him.

want a Commander in Chief with some combat experience, one who has seen war up close and personal, and so won't be as cavalier as the current president in spending American lives abroad.
Clarke not only has that experience, but he also apparently performed superbly on the field of battle.
In the long war against terrorism ahead, a man with Clarke's abilities, background, courage, education and experience would be a plus.


Having seen two Presidents and two Vice-Presidents who have dodged or virtually(who virtually got away with not serving) get elected. I really don't see this as an issue.







Director of the C.Y.A. Society.
Field Marshal of the K.I.S.S. Army

http://www.nudeafrica.com/discus/messages/45722/3068438.gif

[high fly]

Thanks MOJO and HBOX, you guys get it.

I don't see why NYDRAG is confused. I don't like Communism, never did.
At one time, I supported the war in VN. Over time I came to view it as a colossal mistake, one that cost this country dearly in lives and national treasure, as well as dividing us and setting us against each other when we needed to be dealing with more important things, and what good did fighting that war do?
Not a fucking bit of good.

This is no slur on those who fought there, them we owe our respect, gratitude and admiration.

A guy like Clark would be more circumspect than a chickenhawk like Bush when it comes to sending young men into battle.
We would not see him strut about the way Bush did before we fought Iraq, nor would we see the sort of glee that was apparent in Rumsfeld's demeanor in that period.
All those guys see is the pretty blue and red arrows on a map and the sanitized footage we see on t.v.

When it comes to sending men into battle to be maimed, wounded, lose limbs, be captured and tortured or die, I want a veteran to give the order.

Perhaps someone can find the exact quote on the FDR memorial in D.C.
It goes something like:
I have seen war.
I have heard the cries of the wounded,
I have seen the blood flowing in the streets,
I have seen the dead in the mud,
I hate war.


" and they ask me why I drink"

[Se7en]

Military service is no longer quite the feather in the cap that it once was in terms of desirable qualities for presidential candidates.

Just ask John Kerry (Vietnam vet, don't you know) - as much as he screams it from the mountain-tops, people just don't seem to care.

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/KyoSe7en.jpg" width="300" height="125">
<br>
<br>
Resistance is <b>FLAMMABLE.</b></center>

[Recyclerz]

A guy like Clark would be more circumspect than a chickenhawk like Bush when it comes to sending young men into battle. We would not see him strut about the way Bush did before we fought Iraq, nor would we see the sort of glee that was apparent in Rumsfeld's demeanor in that period. All those guys see is the pretty blue and red arrows on a map and the sanitized footage we see on t.v.

When it comes to sending men into battle to be maimed, wounded, lose limbs, be captured and tortured or die, I want a veteran to give the order.



Hear, hear.

Well said, Sir.




There ain't no asylum here.
King Solomon, he never lived 'round here.

[NewYorkDragons80]

It's good that Wesley Clark served in Vietnam, but should I put my political beliefs aside just so that I can vote for a veteran? When it comes to a primary, I will undoubtedly choose the combat veteran over the draft-dodger, but at the same time, one must grasp the realities of a situation. I would rather vote for someone who will continue to spend on the military rather than a Wesley Clark who will continue slashing the military's budget in the tradition of Clinton.

I think being a veteran IS still important to American voters. However, John Kerry fought a war that he was personally against and then lied to Congress to end it. In his book, "New Soldier", Kerry has a picture of him along with men from his unit hoisting the flag upside-down to resemple Iwo Jima. And, I give most Americans enough credit to see that the Democrats heralding a retired General as an obvious attempt to mask their history of working against the US military.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[high fly]

NYDRAG, perhaps you've missed it, but Rumsfeld has been working on a plan to cut the Army from 10 divisions down to 8.

Just thought you'd like to know that.


" and they ask me why I drink"

[Yerdaddy]

The Cold War ended and the structure and size of the military had to change to meet the different threats. So far the bulk of this restructuring period has come on Clinton's watch. It's shamefull that republicans have been playing that same "Democrats hate the military" card for so many years. It's the reason Clinton was blamed for Somalia, and decided to do nothing about Rwanda, and it effected his foreign policy decisions his entire presidency. I'm also sure that if a democrat gets into office next year the republicans are going to be using the same cheap tactics to undermine his presidency. And all the time theyre boo hooing that Bush is getting a raw deal? It's fucking bullshit! I think the democrats need to start playing dirty too, then bringing the republicans in for a little pow wow and force a truce. Put Nixon's tactics in the grave with him.

EDIT: I'm tired and cranky and the coffee isn't working, so this isn't meant to be directed agains you, NYD. It's more of transferance of anger at being woken up twice by telemarketers only to get up to a story that they got the do-not-call list blocked in court. Where's my "War on Telemarketers" Georgie? We can't be out of daisy-cutters already!
<IMG SRC="http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/siggywo4.jpg">

This message was edited by Yerdaddy on 9-24-03 @ 2:58 PM

[shamus mcfitzy]

i think i'd vote for Wesley Clark if i thought he could win. I might even vote for someone who chooses him as a running mate (definitely not Lieberman or some other really moderate doucebag). That only means that i don't want to WASTE MY VOTE ON A DEMOCRAT. I can find better places to waste my vote, thank you. :)

Ultimately i don't think he could win though. I think that there are enough stupid liberals who base their decisions on being anti-military more than anything else. I'm anti a lot of the US actions, but i can respect a man who fought for his country. I don't really disrespect a person who didn't serve their country though because not everyone is in the fucking military. I'm anti-Vietnam War and basically anti-anti-Communism and yet i can respect the SOLDIERS who fought in Vietnam. There just are some people {cough} west coast {cough} who can't really respect anyone. So Clark's military background COULD hurt him more than it helps him.

and i think it's telling that only Se7en and NYDrag are really even arguing against Wesley Clark. Bergalad and others didn't even bother. I think that at least shows that conservatives don't really fear anything right now.


I know it's a joke, I just don't think it's funny because it's irrelevant. I'm sick of the bullshit liberals who say "This recall is undemocratic, unless we elect Bustamante, of course."


And recalling the results of an election is fucking ridiculous and i don't understand why you, NYDrag, would think anyone on this board cares enough who becomes governor of California to be opposing the recall based on political bias. I oppose it based on the fact that it spells the demise of democracy if votes can just be cancelled out.

[Doomstone]

I think that at least shows that conservatives don't really fear anything right now.

I know you're just talking about this board, where most of the Bush-heads seem to have disappeared entirely.

But really, are you that oblivious to the anti-Clark smear campaign going on right now? He's getting Gore-ed!

[Se7en]

i think i'd vote for Wesley Clark if i thought he could win. I might even vote for someone who chooses him as a running mate (definitely not Lieberman or some other really moderate doucebag).

I really feel bad for Lieberman, because he's quite possibly the most capable one of that whole convoluted bunch, and he's the one who gets mercilessly reamed out the ass (by Ron especially) just for the simple fact that he's not partisan enough. Boo fucking hoo.

The reason Democrats are in trouble, in the presidential election and overall, is because they're trying to present a hard-left position as an alternative to Bush. It won't work; the base (composed of.....well, of many individuals on this board, I'm sure) loves that, but the majority of the nation is moderate and won't go for that. Have you possibly heard that the Republicans are chomping at the bit to have Dean win the nomination? It's because if he does win, he will quite easily get labeled as a hard-left Democrat and that will be doom for him in the general election, no matter how his supporters try to portray him as a moderate.

Clark has a lot of faults, chief among them his personality (which is charismatic but can be very polarizing) and his lack-of-experience in any sort of civil administration position, and it's questionable whether he's moderate enough to do anything in the general election, but I can see where Democrats can get excited about him because he may just be interesting enough to do some damage for them.

It's not that Republicans are fearless that Bush will prevail in 2004 - they just realize that despite all the negative things going for Bush currently it's still one hell of an uphill battle for any Democratic contender, and even if they do lose the presidency, they're likely to maintain control over both houses of Congress.

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/KyoSe7en.jpg" width="300" height="125">
<br>
<br>
Resistance is <b>FLAMMABLE.</b></center>

[shamus mcfitzy]

well i don't really care about what most people want. I'd be just as pissed about Lieberman as i am about Bush so if it's a choice between Bush and Lieb I vote Socialist/Green/Libertarian :)

And there'll be a smear campaign against anyone. I think that Clark is less feared than Dean actually because Dean can steal some votes and has more support. But if you read the Meet the Press link that Se7en had in his post, you can read about how there's apparently some level of support for Clark in New Hampshire, which i think could be the key to the election. Small states can ultimately turn the tide. But i still think Dean or Lieb will be the only ones who can win.

[El Mudo]

The reason Democrats are in trouble, in the presidential election and overall, is because they're trying to present a hard-left position as an alternative to Bush. It won't work; the base (composed of.....well, of many individuals on this board, I'm sure) loves that, but the majority of the nation is moderate and won't go for that. Have you possibly heard that the Republicans are chomping at the bit to have Dean win the nomination? It's because if he does win, he will quite easily get labeled as a hard-left Democrat and that will be doom for him in the general election, no matter how his supporters try to portray him as a moderate.


I hope and pray Dean gets the nomination, although he probably won't, because Bush will pummel him that much more easily in a huge landslide. If history has shown us anything about elections, its that American voters do not vote for extremists on both sides of the aisle...hence no President McGovern or no President Goldwater...

http://home.t-online.de/home/a.peichl/shield.gif
Representin' for the Maryland District of RAIDER NATION

[Yerdaddy]

American voters do not vote for extremists on both sides of the aisle

Unless they campaign on slogans like "compassionate conservative" or "uniter, not a divider." Then we bite like kids chasing an icecream truck.

<IMG SRC="http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/siggywo4.jpg">

[Se7en]

But i still think Dean or Lieb will be the only ones who can win.


The nomination or the general election?

For all the shit talked about him, Lieberman would do FAR better in a general election than Dean would.

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/KyoSe7en.jpg" width="300" height="125">
<br>
<br>
Resistance is <b>FLAMMABLE.</b></center>

[Mike Teacher]

It don't matter cuz that guy from the future says the civil wars gonna start in 2005 anyways...

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/MikeTheT">

[high fly]

Wesley Clark is a great candidate for Democrats because he does 2 things that the Clinton Model show are necessary to win the Presidency.

1) he cuts into Republican military voters and eliminates that bullshit "Dems are anti-military peaceniks" argument;
2) he can win in the South.

In the election the Dems will pretty much carry New England, the Rust Belt and the West Coast. To win, they will need to take a few southern states.
To use an Al McGuire-ism, Gore left his aircraft carrier (Bill Clinton) on the bench. Had he used Clinton, he would have carried Arkansas and Tennessee, at a minimum, and won.

Neither Kerry, Dean or Lieberman are going to crack the South.

By the way, I hope y'all noticed that Clark's uniform didn't have the phony "crotch enhancement" (Fez's term) that Bush's did.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[shamus mcfitzy]

It don't matter cuz that guy from the future says the civil wars gonna start in 2005 anyways...


Wesley Clark=new Abraham Lincoln?!?!?

And i don't think Clark even needs to carry the South, he just needs to win in New Hampshire. With NH Gore would've won. But i get the point obviously.

[TheMojoPin]

And, I give most Americans enough credit to see that the Democrats heralding a retired General as an obvious attempt to mask their history of working against the US military.

Yeah, because we TOTALLY established that as the new agenda at last Tuesday's meeting. CURSE YOU AND YOUR MEDDLING DOG!

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[shamus mcfitzy]

And, I give most Americans enough credit to see that the Democrats heralding a retired General as an obvious attempt to mask their history of working against the US military.


Man, I missed the meeting!!!! Damn college!!!! Damn it to Hell!!!

[TheMojoPin]

I really feel bad for Lieberman, because he's quite possibly the most capable one of that whole convoluted bunch

There's a shocker.

The man's a Republican in all but name. The fact he maintains himself as a Democrat is nothing short of a flat-out lie.

And the Democrats are far from being in "trouble". Anyone paying attention to the numerous polls these days showing Clark blowing the other Dems out of the water and potentially beating Bush if the elction was held today. Given that Bush's humbers are slowly and steadily declining, it seems like someone besides the "lefties" should be watching their asses.

We need more men like Colin Powell, John McCain and Wesley Clark running for president.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TheMojoPin]

For all the shit talked about him, Lieberman would do FAR better in a general election than Dean would.

I think you're woefully underestimating the sad religious bias in this country. The simple fact that Lieberman is Jewish would practically evaporate any siginifcant support he might have in the south or middle America. Hell, Kennedy had to steal his election just because he was Catholic. Liberman doesn't stand anything even close to a chance, and that's fucked up.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[high fly]

....last Tuesday's meeting


At the meeting, I liked the part about sneaking godless communism into the school curiculum and the secret plan to turn Southern Baptists into homos.

" and they ask me why I drink"

This message was edited by high fly on 9-24-03 @ 7:59 PM

[shamus mcfitzy]

At the meeting, I liked the part about sneaking godless communism into the school curiculum and the secret plan to turn Southern Baptists into homos.


hahahaha
Was there a part about impregnating high school girls and giving them abortions? 'Cause if i missed something like that....

[TheMojoPin]

REMEMBER! If you showed up and made more than 50k a year you were required to dump at least half of it into a hat and give it to the drunk crackhead outside. And even though the dance around the buring American flags was cancelled because of rain, we'll make it up next month AND spit on a legless veteran! HOOORAY!

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[HBox]

Don't worry guys. I'll bring the aborted fetuses for snack time next week.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[high fly]

And I'll bring the cheese dip, since HBOX forgot last time.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[HBox]

I'll be selling Fidel Castro bobblehead dolls next week.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[shamus mcfitzy]

i'll get my lifesize replica of Lenin's corpse out of my attic. It's probably pretty dusty. I haven't brought it out since....well you know....

[NewYorkDragons80]

Yeah, because we TOTALLY established that as the new agenda at last Tuesday's meeting. CURSE YOU AND YOUR MEDDLING DOG!
You're right. Clark was chosen because he is a former Rhodes scholar and had success in the private industry. It had nothing to do with the fact that a retired general would have the best chance at defeating a popular incumbent during a time of war.

By the way, we kick your ASS!!! At our meetings we feast on the flesh of civilians killed in Iraq. It tastes better because our troops did it on purpose.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 9-24-03 @ 10:28 PM

[TheMojoPin]

"Chosen"?

Alright, let's go out of our way to not give the guy and "his side" ANY credit. Thanks.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 9-25-03 @ 12:43 AM

[Recyclerz]

...we'll make it up next month AND spit on a legless veteran! HOOORAY!


Actually, it's the Republicans who do that.

Max Cleland, triple amputee from war injuries received in Vietnam, former Secy. of Veterans Affairs under Clinton and former one-term Senator from Georgia was accused of not being patriotic enough by his (ultimately) victorious (and contemptible) opponent, Saxby Chambliss.

Them Treasonous Democrats (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0603/14cleland.html?urac=n&urvf=10644629786800.9935178052703083)

Relevant passage:

The lowest moment for Cleland came when Chambliss aired a TV spot that attacked his voting record on homeland security issues and featured photos of Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.

Cleland said at the time he was personally hurt by the ad, and during the interview this week he remained bitter.

"The charge that somehow I was unpatriotic, when really I had helped write the law on the homeland security legislation, all those lies that occurred in the campaign -- that was a trauma that was unexpected for me," he said. "I thought I had done a good job for the people of Georgia. I thought they knew me as someone who had served and sacrificed for the country, as someone who was willing to defend the country 35 years ago. . . . But the White House and the media image makers turned me into some kind of villain."




There ain't no asylum here.
King Solomon, he never lived 'round here.

This message was edited by Recyclerz on 9-25-03 @ 7:51 AM

[A.J.]

Unless they campaign on slogans like "compassionate conservative" or "uniter, not a divider." Then we bite like kids chasing an icecream truck.

Or "New Democrat".

<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">
A Skidmark production.

Red Sox Nation

[Mike Teacher]

I try to look at this stuff scientific-like, ya know? Not be biased, just the data, etc.

And I have come to 3 conclusions:

1. The POTUS isn't really running the show.

2. It's almost impossible to tell the difference between a Democrat and a Republican, if not impossible, by philosophy [if not philosophy, the words they speak; what they actually say and do].

3. The biggest problem in American Politics? Americans.



<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/MikeTheT">

[Yerdaddy]

Unless they campaign on slogans like "compassionate conservative" or "uniter, not a divider." Then we bite like kids chasing an icecream truck.

Or "New Democrat".

Or "Log Cabin Republican." Ok, well maybe that one not so much.

<IMG SRC="http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/siggywo4.jpg">

[high fly]

ALERT FOR THE NEXT MEETING!!

Hey gang, I'll have some neat-o Che! posters for only $9.99 each as well as sheets of acid to sell to kids in the schoolyard!

" and they ask me why I drink"

[El Mudo]

2. It's almost impossible to tell the difference between a Democrat and a Republican, if not impossible, by philosophy [if not philosophy, the words they speak; what they actually say and do].

All too true...I spit on both parties, but I gotta vote Republican, because there are really no other alternatives for conservatives....

It seems as if the Republicans in the Congress and Senate are just deathly afraid of being labelled by the Democrats, and they get pushed into putting all these new spending bills into law. Why should I have to pay for old people's prescription drug coverage? Why should anyone have to pay for mine when i'm old?...

*sigh*...politics suck....

http://home.t-online.de/home/a.peichl/shield.gif
Representin' for the Maryland District of RAIDER NATION

[high fly]

MUDO digs the Republican traditions of signing record spending bills while racking up record levels of debt.


Not to worry, a Democrat will come along and clean up their mess, eventually.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[HBox]

Why should I have to pay for old people's prescription drug coverage? Why should anyone have to pay for mine when i'm old?...

Spoken like someone who has no idea how much drugs cost these days.

Of course, the real problem is the cost of the drugs, but nobody from either party will ever touch that.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[A.J.]

Spoken like someone who has no idea how much drugs cost these days.

Of course, the real problem is the cost of the drugs, but nobody from either party will ever touch that.


Homes and cars cost a lot these days too. Why not have taxpayers help out with those as well?

<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">
A Skidmark production.

Red Sox Nation

This message was edited by AJinDC on 9-25-03 @ 3:06 PM

[high fly]

The money wasted so far on this war in Iraq would be more than enough to provide everyone in America with health care.

Buuuuut being a Republican means never having to say you care about anyone but yourself.

Can we get back to Wesley Clark, now?

" and they ask me why I drink"

[HBox]

Homes and cars cost a lot these days too. Why not have taxpayers help out with those as well?

Because people don't just die or live in excruciating pain without homes or cars.

But if that's a sacrifice you are bravely willing to make, then I guess there's nothing to say.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[Se7en]

I really feel bad for Lieberman, because he's quite possibly the most capable one of that whole convoluted bunch

There's a shocker.

The man's a Republican in all but name. The fact he maintains himself as a Democrat is nothing short of a flat-out lie.


Thank you for proving my point for me.

The Democrats who are ripping Lieberman apart are no better than the Republicans in CA who are whining like bitches that Arnold isn't "THEIR" kind of Republican simply because he's liberal on social policies.

I stand by my statements, although you bring up a good point about his religion, so I will modify my statement: if Lieberman was anything but a Jew, he would be the most capable AND electable Democrat out of the whole field.

But that's me, a conservative saying that, so please continue to feel free to tear him apart like wolves for getting some love from the likes of me. Hmm.....perhaps "jackals" would be the better analogy.

As for Bush's dropping poll numbers: that only makes the victory more difficult for him, but momentum has not yet swung in favor of the Democrats, and even if it had, it is still a very formidable task in defeating Bush as incumbent. There's no one in the Democrat field today - no, not even Clark - who is nearly as charismatic enough as Clinton was to give the Democrats a clear-cut victory.

Who knows, maybe Bush will lose, but if he does, look for it to be like 2000 - a very narrow defeat. Maybe a very narrow victory if he wins, bottom line is that NO ONE should be patting themselves on the back just yet.

Oh, and you boys had another meeting?

MY CONSERVATIVE RF.NET LACKEYS!!!! I ordered you to secretly record that meeting, why haven't I got my fucking transcript yet?!?!?!?!


<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/KyoSe7en.jpg" width="300" height="125">
<br>
<br>
Resistance is <b>FLAMMABLE.</b></center>

[TheMojoPin]

As much as you're trying to paint me into it, I'm not attacking Lieberman BECAUSE he's a conservative, but because he's simply NOT a Democrat and yet is attempting to run as a Democratic president. He's essentially trying to hijack the party I've tended to vote for over the years, and pardon me if I'd prefer to see Democrats acting like DEMOCRATS. Feel free to like him all you want...the man isn't what he says he is and it's damaging the party he's claiming to be a part of. I don't have an automatic bias against Republicans, nor should I have one...but I DO have one who claim they're one thing and then present themselves to really be something else.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[curtoid]

Anyone catch the debate today? This was Clark's big coming out, right. How did Wes do against the others?

[Se7en]

Feel free to like him all you want...the man isn't what he says he is and it's damaging the party he's claiming to be a part of.

How so?

How is he damaging the party when everyone in the party with any sort of sway is absolutely mauling the man to pieces because he's not anti-Bush/Republican enough (which is, as we all know, the Democratic platform these days) and it's clear that he has virtually no chance of winning the nomination?

I'll remember your argument though in the future should a Republican do something which us conservatives dislike immensely (such as Jim Jeffords, for example) - perhaps it will give me carte blanche to harshly criticize them for being "Republicans not acting like Republicans."

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/KyoSe7en.jpg" width="300" height="125">
<br>
<br>
Resistance is <b>FLAMMABLE.</b></center>

[TheMojoPin]

I'll remember your argument though in the future should a Republican do something which us conservatives dislike immensely (such as Jim Jeffords, for example) - perhaps it will give me carte blanche to harshly criticize them for being "Republicans not acting like Republicans."

How the hell is Jim Jeffords an apt example here? The man left the party he was continually at odds with. That's what Lieberman SHOULD do. You SHOULD gripe about a blatantly liberal Republican because it's subversive to anything that party may try and accomplish as a whole and seemingly anything else the individual may hope to get done. There ARE party distinctions for a reason. I don't understand why you think you're "catching" me on something here. Politicians are obviously notorious for going against their word, but this kind of behavior drives me nuts because he's essentially the opposite of what he's "supposed" to be in almost every issue. And again, I have no actual problem with his politics themselves. The man can support whatever he wants and it won't bother me. It's simply the fact he's running as a Democrat when he's clearly NOT a Democrat that bugs me. It's not illegal, I don't expect it to be stopped or him kept from doing it...it simply bugs me.

There's not a single significant reason why this man should remain a Democrat except for the fact that's what he ran as one previously and that's the vote he's trying to court by being a former Democratic VP candidate. I've said over and over again that I loathed CLinton because of his centrist policies, and Lieberman is just that times 10. Why the hell WOULDN'T I express my dislike of his titular hypocrisy? He's a two-face, and it bugs me, and you SHOULD be annoyed by someone who claimed to be a Republican/conservative and courted that vote/support but clearly wasn't. Go nuts.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 9-25-03 @ 11:08 PM

[Teenweek]

I just have a feeling Bush will come out with Osama's head on a stick at the republican national convention next year in new york.

[El Mudo]

Spoken like someone who has no idea how much drugs cost these days.


which is why the vast majority of seniors have prescription drug coverage with their pension plans...



TextMY CONSERVATIVE RF.NET LACKEYS!!!! I ordered you to secretly record that meeting, why haven't I got my fucking transcript yet?!?!?!?!



ahh...i was busy working so the government can give more of my hard earned money to people who don't work...

http://home.t-online.de/home/a.peichl/shield.gif
Representin' for the Maryland District of RAIDER NATION

[HBox]

which is why the vast majority of seniors have prescription drug coverage with their pension plans...

Define "vast majority."

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[curtoid]

So...I guess no one watched the debate??


which is why the vast majority of seniors have prescription drug coverage with their pension plans...


WOW!

Tell that to the would be Republican governor of Kansas, who lost his election last November to a female Democrat, partly by making a similar ill-informed remark.

Let's hope that nothing ever happens to you or your family members where you suddenly find yourself in the vast minority.

[curtoid]

stupid double post



This message was edited by KOP on 9-26-03 @ 7:33 AM

[Yerdaddy]

I really appreciate the conservatives endorsements of democratic candidates and I'll be sure to take it into consideration. Of course you'll understand if I do the opposite of your suggestions. I'd also like to return the favor and tell you: get rid of Bush and find another candidate, please! He's too smart, charismatic and honest to be beat.

<IMG SRC="http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/siggywo4.jpg">

[Se7en]

It's only fair that you disregard all of my remarks about Lieberman, Yerdaddy, as I disregard every piece of drivel that comes out of your head.

At least there is symmetry.

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/KyoSe7en.jpg" width="300" height="125">
<br>
<br>
Resistance is <b>FLAMMABLE.</b></center>

[Yerdaddy]

Is that why you got your vag all infected over my last post?

<IMG SRC="http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/siggywo4.jpg">

[Heavy]

I had no idea people were saying "vag" in this thread. Glad I stopped by.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=JohneeWadd">
A proportionate amount of props are equally distributed to my nigga's Fluff, Alexxis, CanOfSoup15, WWFallon and Katylina