Comply or deny.

[FiveB247]

Click me. (http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/01/crime.usa.aid.reut/index.html)

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Why practice democratic values when you can practice capitalism?

[HBox]

If this was humanitarian aid, I'd give a shit. As it is, I really don't care that Malta can't buy a new rocket launcher.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[Bergalad]

Agreed.

[furie]

good

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<marquee>Don't make me Ang Lee. You wouldn't like me when I'm Ang Lee.</marquee>

[Se7en]

Excellent move.

We should be doing this. The International Court is nothing but BAD NEWS for us, and we should be discouraging it in ways such as this.

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Is the Captain a member of the proud <b>2%</b>?

[DarkHippie]

I think the question is: should Americans be exempt from crimal prosecution on the international scene?

It seems that this is why we have cut off military aid, as a heavy-handed bargaining chip. I really don't like these kinds of negotiations. i don't think that they are done in "fair play" and they add to the resentment of America by foriegners, who need American aid, but hate that they need it (for reasons such as this)

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<marquee>"Last night I went running through the screen door of discression, for I woke up from a nightmare that I could not stand to see. You were a-wandering out on the hills of Iowa and you were not thinking of me." Dar Williams "Traveling III (Iowa)"</marquee>

[canofsoup15]

I dont understand why we always have to be the ones to help these countries out, alot of them hate us and just use us for our aid, cant they get there own economies going and give themselves what they need instead of us always having to be the mother.

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[FiveB247]

The US is the world police and is justified (in their own minds and actions) to act as they please, yet want others to live up to international laws, courts, and rule. The US uses aid, trade and other measures in which they obviously hold the upper hand into forcing nations to compy. It's easy to see why foreigners do not like such methods or actions and hold resentment. In many respects, the US wants to be the ones involved in international occurences, problems, and giving out aid....it allows them to have first hand in how things will be dealt with and used to mold things towards their own favor and influence.

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Why practice democratic values when you can practice capitalism?

[Snoogans]

i say fuck em, they shoulda taken our side if they wanted us to do them favors. i guess my fellow irishman are gonna have to cut back on the carbombs

Silent Bob you one rude motherfucker, she like to go down on you, suck you. line up 2 other guys and make like a circus seal

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eww you fuckin faggots, i hate guys, i LOOOOVE WOMEN!

[Se7en]

The US is the world police and is justified (in their own minds and actions) to act as they please, yet want others to live up to international laws, courts, and rule.


American participation in an international body such as the World Court would allow angry Bath party members to bring up the President, as well as others such as Rumsfield or Gen. Tommy Franks, on criminal charges for the war in Iraq, EVEN THOUGH we were justified in waging that war.

I know, I know, YOU don't think it was justified, but from a purely LEGAL perspective, it was.

There has already been rumblings about this. Individuals in Belgium, for example, expressed interest in bringing our administration up on charges for the war.

That's just one particular example.

The benefits of entering into a world court is VASTLY overwhelmed by the potential harm we suffer by participating in it. It's the same thing as the Kyoto treaty. Does this foster ill will towards America? Possibly. But that begs the question, how much damage do you want the U.S. to suffer just to appease others?

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[Bergalad]

Look. This is for war crimes. The people the US want tried for war crimes WILL NOT BE TRIED by the countries they are from. If a US service member does something on the level of a Ratko Mladic, then we will certainly bring them to trial and punish them if found guilty.

This whole thing is being done to protect US soldiers. There are no ulterior motives here by the US. This is to shield soldiers from insane charges by bitter countries, and that's the way it should be. If you are against the US doing this, then you don't have the best interests of soldiers in mind. That's just the fact, so accept it. End of discussion.

[FiveB247]

Does this foster ill will towards America? Possibly.

It's more than a possibility....it's a given. We want to provide and create a level of stability in the international arena and hold all other nations to such laws, courts and similar. When we clearly obstruct, violate and disregard such items, it creates great hypocrisy and ill-will towards our nation. It has nothing to do with appeasing the opposition of other side. If you expect or want a world to live and abide by laws and rules in order to create stability, it'd be obviously clear to abide by them yourself...eh?

Ps...The US is one of the few industrialized, modernized nations not in the Kyoto treaty.

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Why practice democratic values when you can practice capitalism?

[Se7en]

Quote:
Does this foster ill will towards America? Possibly.



It's more than a possibility....it's a given. We want to provide and create a level of stability in the international arena and hold all other nations to such laws, courts and similar. When we clearly obstruct, violate and disregard such items, it creates great hypocrisy and ill-will towards our nation. It has nothing to do with appeasing the opposition of other side. If you expect or want a world to live and abide by laws and rules in order to create stability, it'd be obviously clear to abide by them yourself...eh?

Again, in your zeal to criticize the U.S. (which I believe now is just full on hatred for the nation), you are ignoring the very reason why we aren't joining the world court.

It's so NOT about us not wanting to abide by the international laws.

It's about losing our sovereign power by subjugating ourselves to the whims of other nations who will attempt to try Americans, and most certainly members of our governing administration (not just the current administration - ANY administration in power), for all sorts of perceived crimes, real or unreal. Frankly, as a country we don't want to be part of an organization which will allow our president to be tried for war crimes for waging a war against a country, i.e. Iraq, when SOME nations have a different view of what is or is not "justified" (even though, again, from a legal perspective the war was justified). WE DON'T WANT THAT. It's incredibly dangerous to us. Bush knows to stay away. Clinton knew to stay the hell away when it came up during his presidency.

The world court is just an organization created with a very real ulterior motive of holding Americans accountable for a variety of things which, questionably, we should NOT be held accounted for.


This whole thing is being done to protect US soldiers. There are no ulterior motives here by the US. This is to shield soldiers from insane charges by bitter countries, and that's the way it should be.


EXACTLY the point.


Ps...The US is one of the few industrialized, modernized nations not in the Kyoto treaty.


YES, EXACTLY, because in order to comply with that OBSOLETE treaty we would have had to make changes which would have CRIPPLED our economy. You think the economy is in bad shape now? Just imagine the shape we'd have been in if we agreed to Kyoto.

Cost / Benefit analysis. Same thing with the world court, same thing with Kyoto. Ultimately, there are some aspects of foreign policy which we have to just brush off, even if it pisses off the world community, because they are too DAMAGING to American society and culture.

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[FiveB247]

I do understand and recognize the implications of abiding by international laws, courts, organizations...but also feel ignoring such institutions and laws while holding others accountable to them hurts us a lot more than it could ever help us. Your mention of Kyoto is only partially correct. Environmental policy change would only be implemented in small increments and not in an overall change like the one you're describing which would make the economy obsolete. The only thing that will be obsolete will be the environment when we don't change policies and actions like the ones we employ now (that is the only given and truism in this discussion). Of course the US is not going to give up all of its power and influence to appease others, but is it fair or just to expect others to live by such standards, no less punish them with aid cuts, embargos and others when they do not? Like most things in life, compromise and the middle ground is the answer to stability and rational dealings...not extremism or devout, stubborn stances on issues without moving an inch. Using such unilateral, rogue methods and practices, the US brings cynicism, hate and other lack luster feelings and sentiments upon itself.

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Why practice democratic values when you can practice capitalism?