Bush Ends Global Warming

[42nd-delay]

I thought it was a big problem, but apparently not anymore thanks to Bush and company! What do these scientists know, anyway? Can't wait for the report on the economy...

Report by the E.P.A. Leaves Out Data on Climate Change (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=68&ncid=68&e=3&u=/nyt/20030619/ts_nyt/reportbytheepaleavesoutdataonclimatechange) (I changed the link to yahoo's registry-free story)

"The Environmental Protection Agency is preparing to publish a draft report next week on the state of the environment, but after editing by the White House, a long section describing risks from rising global temperatures has been whittled to a few noncommittal paragraphs."

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"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

This message was edited by 42nd-delay on 6-19-03 @ 1:10 PM

[TooCute]

Don't you remember that thread from las spring? Global warming doesn't exist.

Some people!



It baffles me that some people actually believe this - or that some people are going to read this report and think that global warming is not an issue, not dangerous, and not something that we need to address now. All of the facts are there for you to read if you want to - or you can continue to blindly follow the politicians and ignore their blatant intrest in convincing you that global warming doesn't merit any attention.

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[FiveB247]

It's not that they don't address it...they nod at it as it goes along...and then it will bite us all on the ass. Editing is fun and incorporates revisionist thinking.

But in the "Global Issues" section of the draft returned by the White House to E.P.A. in April, an introductory sentence reading, "Climate change has global consequences for human health and the environment" was cut and replaced with a paragraph that starts: "The complexity of the Earth system and the interconnections among its components make it a scientific challenge to document change, diagnose its causes, and develop useful projections of how natural variability and human actions may affect the global environment in the future."

It's not us creating the damage...it's the earth changing why we happen to be here. Whether they are connected is scientific mumbo-jumbo...right?

"This is a positive step by the agency," said an author of the report, who did not want to be named

Gee I wonder why...maybe cause he'd be humilated to have his name on this piece of crap report that will be laughed at by the entire scientific world?

Source (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=68&ncid=68&e=3&u=/nyt/20030619/ts_nyt/reportbytheepaleavesoutdataonclimatechange)

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Why practice democratic values when you can practice capitalism?

[Wormwood]

It's about time somebody ended it 'cause things were getting out of hand. Thank you Mr. Bush, this country's greatest president ever!!!

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[furie]

The EPA is useless. Most purely reglatory agencies are.

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[DarkHippie]

Now we know why Whitman quit

Next up, evolution!!!

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<marquee>"And there are times whe

This message was edited by DarkHippie on 6-19-03 @ 2:04 PM

[Death Metal Moe]

Can't wait for the report on the economy...


You say that like you HOPE Bush fails and we all lose more money and jobs. What the fuck is wrong with you?!

Democrat or Republican, I ALWAYS HOPE for a strong economy.

As for Global Warming, I personally find it has also become more of a political argument than a scientific discussion.

Plus, I do not believe that humans could have damaged the Earth so quickly. The Ozone layer may have thinned or disappeared over areas, but who's to say this isn't some sort of cycle it runs though or the result of things besides us.

I don't want to dirty the Earth anymore than any of you, but I'm not so quick to Blame Humans First like the world has seemed to do.
I mean, how long have we really had the ability to record any movement in the Ozone layer? I would guess less than a humdred years. Can we really reach any kind of conclusions from that? I don't think so.

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DEATH FACTION/BACON FACTION 4 LIFE!!!
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[Captain Rooster]

Bush Ends Global Warming


And starts Global Boiling



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[TooCute]

As for Global Warming, I personally find it has also become more of a political argument than a scientific discussion.

What does this even mean? That because politicians argue about it now, it is less 'scientific' or doesn't exist any more? Global warming and depletion of the ozone layer are scientific fact, whether politicians accept it or not.

Plus, I do not believe that humans could have damaged the Earth so quickly.

On what basis? Your uninformed opinion? Humans have damaged the earth as quickly or even more quickly in many ways - just look, for example at the state of fisheries in the world. The orange roughy was driven for all intents and purposes extinct in a matter of years (not even decades. Years.)

The Ozone layer may have thinned or disappeared over areas, but who's to say this isn't some sort of cycle it runs though or the result of things besides us.

Well, what data about it that exists, for one. We know what factors affect the thickness of the ozone layer - it does vary from year to year and season to season - and none of them can account for the 50% (yes. 50% in some areas - it is less in others) decrease in the thickness of the ozone layer.

I don't want to dirty the Earth anymore than any of you, but I'm not so quick to Blame Humans First like the world has seemed to do. This is most likely because you are not fully informed on the issues and science involved. I can certainly recommend books on various subjects concerning the environment if you're interested.

I mean, how long have we really had the ability to record any movement in the Ozone layer? I would guess less than a humdred years. Can we really reach any kind of conclusions from that? I don't think so.


So what if you don't think so?

Actually we've only been monitoring the ozone layer over Antarctica (where, due to various factors, the depletion is the most pronounced) since the late 1950's. And yes, levels have gone down 50% since then, and are still decreasing. The conclusion that we can draw is that yes, something is causing the decrease. We know about the chemistry of ozone, how it is formed, and hence how it can be depleted. Unfortunately it is fairly clear that various anthropogenic sources - like chlorofluorocarbons - are a large contributing factor.

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[Death Metal Moe]

Dude, I just totally got the Too Cute spanking.

I'm not saying we CAN'T damage the Earth. Over fishing is an excellent example of something we just did to ourselves within the past few decades.

But here's a flip side example of something I heard.

Volcanoes can spew more ozone unfriendly gases into the atmosphere than we could ever hope to in a day.

Plus, aren't climate changes common on most planets?

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[TheMojoPin]

Volcanoes can spew more ozone unfriendly gases into the atmosphere than we could ever hope to in a day.


Dude, cow farts are killing the planet. So, yes, you are right in the regard. But why is this a cue for us to not try to add to the problem? Should we just give up?

My problem is with the perspective. Save the planet? Fuck the planet. The planet was around before us and it'll be around after us. Save US, dammit. Save the humans!

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[HBox]

Volcanoes can spew more ozone unfriendly gases into the atmosphere than we could ever hope to in a day.


And how often do volcanoes erupt? I'm not sure, but I'd guess not enough to make anywhere near the difference we make.

I wonder if someone could clear this up for me. I read somewhere once that greenhouse gases take 10 years to get all the way up to where they contribute to the greenhouse effect. Is that true? If so, even if we totally stopped driving today, the greenhouse effect would still get worse for at least 10 more years.

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[FiveB247]

Moe how can you seriously argue that humans haven't seriously damaged the earth? If you don't believe this to be...go swimming with needles, oil, chemicals amongst other items us humans have placed in lakes, seas, rivers and oceans. There's no such thing as clean air due to all the emissions we've placed out there as well as the huge acid rain problems all multiplied by the deforestation which takes CO2 levels and cleaner air coming into play. As for ecosystems and animals...diseases are becoming more prevalent due to environments being destroyed by business and industrialization pushing animals and similar into areas they do not belong. Things like West Nile Virus, growing lyme disease problems and many others are all results of such actions. And let's not even get into the "water shortage" that is claimed...that's a hoax. As for your mention of changing temperatures....in the last 50 years our environment has seen worse damage and destruction that will lead to massive future problems which are irreversible, than it has throughout the history of man. (and it's no coincidence) Mass Industrialization and neo-liberalism (free market values) all push the envelope to profit now and suffer later.

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Why practice democratic values when you can practice capitalism?

[TooCute]

I wonder if someone could clear this up for me. I read somewhere once that greenhouse gases take 10 years to get all the way up to where they contribute to the greenhouse effect. Is that true? If so, even if we totally stopped driving today, the greenhouse effect would still get worse for at least 10 more year

essentially, yes. And grenhouse gasses don't go away, either.

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[42nd-delay]

You say that like you HOPE Bush fails and we all lose more money and jobs. What the fuck is wrong with you?!


Not at all - I was merely suggesting that if they can pretend that global warming doesn't exist, maybe they can pretend unemployment doesn't exist too and take it out of that report. That's an exaggeration of course (I hope).

I hope the economy does get better before I lose my job for the third time under the Bush presidency - I'm just not very confident it will.

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"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

[A.J.]

Dude, cow farts are killing the planet.


And that's why they need to be killed and grilled.

If a cow had the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you loved!

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[A.J.]

Dude, cow farts are killing the planet.


So New Zealand has taken steps to do something about this (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=856&ncid=856&e=6&u=/nm/20030620/od_uk_nm/oukoe_odd_newzealand_tax)

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[FiveB247]

Have a look (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030626/wl_nm/environment_brazil_amazon_dc_5)

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Why practice democratic values when you can practice capitalism?

[mdr55]

YES!!! The war of GLOBAL WARMING is over! GO BUSH GO!!

[FiveB247]

Global warming's effects (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WEATHER/07/03/wmo.extremes/index.html)

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Why practice democratic values when you can practice capitalism?

[TooCute]

Sorry to post a whole article but it was emailed to me like this and seemed at least marginally relevant.

The Guardian
July 1, 2003

SHADOW OF EXTINCTION

Only six degrees separate our world from the cataclysmic end of an ancient
era

George Monbiot

It is old news, I admit. Two hundred and fifty-one million years old, to
be precise. But the story of what happened then, which has now been told
for the first time, demands our urgent attention. Its implications are
more profound than anything taking place in Iraq, or Washington, or even
(and I am sorry to burst your bubble) Wimbledon. Unless we understand what
happened, and act upon that intelligence, prehistory may very soon repeat
itself, not as tragedy, but as catastrophe.

The events that brought the Permian period (between 286m and 251m years
ago) to an end could not be clearly determined until the mapping of the
key geological sequences had been completed. Until recently,
palaeontologists had assumed that the changes that took place then were
gradual and piecemeal. But three years ago a precise date for the end of
the period was established, which enabled geologists to draw direct
comparisons between the rocks laid down at that time in different parts of
the world.

Having done so, they made a shattering discovery. In China, South Africa,
Australia, Greenland, Russia and Svalbard, the rocks record an almost
identical sequence of events, taking place not gradually, but relatively
instantaneously. They show that a cataclysm caused by natural processes
almost brought life on earth to an end. They also suggest that a set of
human activities that threatens to replicate those processes could exert
the same effect, within the lifetimes of some of those who are on earth
today.

As the professor of palaeontology Michael Benton records in his new book,
When Life Nearly Died, the marine sediments deposited at the end of the
Permian period record two sudden changes. The first is that the red or
green or grey rock laid down in the presence of oxygen is suddenly
replaced by black muds of the kind deposited when oxygen is absent. At the
same time, an instant shift in the ratio of the isotopes (alternative
forms) of carbon within the rocks suggests a spectacular change in the
concentration of atmospheric gases.

On land, another dramatic transition has been dated to precisely the same
time. In Russia and South Africa, gently deposited mudstones and
limestones suddenly give way to massive dumps of pebbles and boulders. But
the geological changes are minor in comparison with what happened to the
animals and plants.

The Permian was one of the most biologically diverse periods in the
earth's history. Herbivorous reptiles the size of rhinos were hunted
through forests of tree ferns and flowering trees by sabre-toothed
predators. At sea, massive coral reefs accumulated, among which lived
great sharks, fish of all kinds and hundreds of species of shell
creatures.

Then suddenly there is almost nothing. The fossil record very nearly stops
dead. The reefs die instantly, and do not reappear on earth for 10 million
years. All the large and medium-sized sharks disappear, most of the shell
species, and even the great majority of the toughest and most numerous
organisms in the sea, the plankton. Among many classes of marine animals,
the only survivors were those adapted to the near-absence of oxygen.

On land, the shift was even more severe. Plant life was almost eliminated
from the earth's surface. The four-footed animals, the category to which
humans belong, were nearly exterminated: so far only two fossil reptile
species have been found anywhere on earth that survived the end of the
Permian. The world's surface came to be dominated by just one of these, an
animal a bit like a pig. It became ubiquitous because nothing else was
left to compete with it or to prey upon it.

Altogether, Benton shows, some 90% of the earth's species appear to have
been wiped out: this represents by far the gravest of the mass
extinctions.

[keithy_19]

I just want to say I LOVE how quickly this goes from concerns about "global warming" to straight out bush bashing.

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[Yerdaddy]

I just want to say I LOVE how quickly this goes from concerns about "global warming" to straight out bush bashing.
boo hoo

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[FiveB247]

There has been discussion on global warming as an issue as well as it concerns. Bush is the President, he helps formulate policy and agenda for the nation....should we not mention his name? Other Presidents have been talked of in the same manner, should Bush be the exception? I think not.

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Why practice democratic values when you can practice capitalism?

[high fly]

Back to the Bush bashing.
Y'know when he had the Rangers he traded Sammy Sosa.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[FMJeff]

this just in...bush cures cancer and climbs mt everest...

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It made my heart sing.

[Yerdaddy]

If a cow had the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you loved!

I forgot to mention this earlier: outstanding Troy McClure referece!

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[Heavy]

Oh and how!

Mad props to Fluff for the sig and C.O.soup for hosting!
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