Saving Private Lynch story 'flawed'

[Doomstone]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/correspondent/3028585.stm

I'm shocked!

[TheMojoPin]

Even if this is true, I don't understand what it's supposed to mean. BBC, how petty can you get?

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[Doomstone]

So are you saying I'm petty or BBC is petty?

I'm not...if it's BBC...yeah, I think the last few paragraphs give it away. They are.

But IF it's true...what does it say? I think it says a whole fucking lot about propaganda and the extent to which the US government will go to get people on their side.

"Oh God, it's just sick what those animals will do" - the response they want to hear

[reeshy]

Interview of 2 Iraqi "doctors", one of which "knows" that there were blanks in their weapons....I know a guy who was an eye witness to the Lincoln assassination-no shit-he runs the convenience store down near Huntington!!

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This message was edited by reeshy on 5-31-03 @ 8:04 AM

[DarkHippie]

Even if this is true, I don't understand what it's supposed to mean. BBC, how petty can you get?
This isn't petty at all. instead of letting the military just do the job, they had to trump it up into a big operation for the embedd reporters.

This is a perfect example of how our media interferes, and how reality and fiction blur. I wonder how many tV movies will be made about this rescue, and how many would've been made i f they had just gone in without the fanfare.

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[travis151]

Do you really think they used blanks? Give me a fucking break. I already saw a show about this story. There was a battle not inside the hospital but outside. Two doctors first wanted $10,000 for the release of Pt. Lynch but the U.S. didn't give in so they just busted in and saved her.It amazes me how the BBC can just right stories with only interviewing one side of the story. Oh two Iraqi doctors is really credible for information.

Red Sox=More Better

[silera]

Travis, if what you say is true, why risk the lives of both Lynch and the rescuing soldiers, when they could have gotten her for 10K?

It just seems like a 10K expense, while morally repugnant, in comparison to the 80 billion spent on the war is no expense at all, and putting her safety and that of her fellow soldiers first would be the right decision.

Most newspapers have issued corrections on the initial reports of the circumstances of her capture. What happened after will always be a mystery.

Unfortunately, I'm more likely to believe that most of it was spin, because the whole war was spin as far as I'm concerned.

The final outcome that counts however, is that I'm happy she's alive.


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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
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[mdr55]

You made a typo- It's "Saving Private Ryan" .
It's not flawed, but a pretty good flick. Stars Tom Hanks. Check it out. But if you buy it on the corner or a bootleg copy, for some reason they they have it titled "Saving Private Lynch". Oh well, you get what you pay for.

[Heavy]

Travis, if what you say is true, why risk the lives of both Lynch and the rescuing soldiers, when they could have gotten her for 10K?


Why pay when you can kick the door down and do it yourself?

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Yes, he is hung like a horse. One female porn star describes having sex with Johneewadd as like giving birth.

[The Jays]

Dr Uday was surprised by the manner of the rescue



UDAY!!!!!! HE WAS RIGHT THERE, UNDERNEATH OUR NOSES!!!!!

<font color="blue" face="Trebuchet MS" size=-2> Fuck what you heard.</font>
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[The Jays]

Travis, if what you say is true, why risk the lives of both Lynch and the rescuing soldiers, when they could have gotten her for 10K?



because America does not negotiate with terrorists.

<font color="blue" face="Trebuchet MS" size=-2> Fuck what you heard.</font>
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[Heavy]

I just read the story. The soldiers had left the hospital the day before and there were only doctors inside. So we played army just for show. Nice story and apparently people buy it. You practice as you fight. Even if it's a rutine training excercise you yell "GO GO GO" when you make omvments. Now in the combat zone these Special Forces are doing it for "effect". And if there did go in firing it only makes sense that ones ones firing used blanks, theyre not going to be shooting through walls or ceilings with live rounds. Lets not forget how common the act of hiding as civilians was for these Iraqi pricks and we never assume a doctor is really a doctor.

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Yes, he is hung like a horse. One female porn star describes having sex with Johneewadd as like giving birth.

[HBox]

because America does not negotiate with terrorists


They weren't terrorists, they were greedy doctors.

[Heavy]

How do you know

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Yes, he is hung like a horse. One female porn star describes having sex with Johneewadd as like giving birth.

[DarkHippie]

How do you know
Wow.

Even the military didn't believe they were terrorists Johnee, and they'd send everyone with sand in their shoes to Camp X-ray if they could.

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[Bergalad]

Let me say this right now: no soldier in Iraq has blank ammunition. How do I know the soldiers who rescued Lynch didn't use blanks? Look at the footage again. When the US uses blanks in their M16's and M4's, they have what is called a Blank Adapter on the front of the weapon. This Adapter is required to allow the weapon to fire correctly, and it is highly visible and alters the signature of the weapon it is attached to. Blanks were not used in this or any other action in Iraq. Also, other reports have said that Green Berets, Rangers, Seals, and Air Force "Special Operations" units were involved with the rescue. This is highly unlikely as these units work independently of eachother. Just a side note there.

[high fly]

I'd still bang her.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[TheMojoPin]

Only fags use bullets.

These were special, SPECIAL forces.

Get with the times, people.

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[HBox]

I've always been a proponent of more gay porn mustaches in our military.

[TheMojoPin]

See, if we didn't ask and didn't tell, we'd be kicking some major terrorist ASS. Or at least cruising it before fucking the hell out of it.

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Se7en]

Hmmm. Propaganda huh?

Well, in light of this, I must ask myself a single question: does this news story make me view Private Lynch or the soldiers who rescued her as any less heroic or worthy of my respect and admiration?

The answer is no.

So don't waste my fucking time.

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[FiveB247]

Seven what the hell is your point? Do you not find a hoax 'rescue' nothing more then being deceived and tricked? Keep reading awful news and allowing them to mind'f you..cause that's all the US media does. Dewey won right?!

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[TheMojoPin]

I love how Se7en and FiveB both have gigantic boners over this Lynch affair, but for totally different reasons. I'll bet if they had to jerk each other off they'd totally look pissed and stuff.

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[FiveB247]

Not quite Mojo. I posted once in this and didn't say anything absurd or too harsh. I save my boners for opportune times..hehe

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[Se7en]

Seven what the hell is your point? Do you not find a hoax 'rescue' nothing more then being deceived and tricked? Keep reading awful news and allowing them to mind'f you..cause that's all the US media does. Dewey won right?!

I save my outrage over war propaganda for SERIOUS situations. Oh my God, maybe they hyped up the circumstances surrounding her rescue in order to boost morale both amongst the troops and on the homefront. HOW DARE THEY.

If the Lynch story involved the U.S. troops slaughtering a few Iraqi women & children in order to get Lynch, then maybe I'd be furious and morally indignant. Did they mindfuck us? Yeah, but frankly, this type of mindfuck doesn't get my panties in quite the same twist as others.

I love how Se7en and FiveB both have gigantic boners over this Lynch affair, but for totally different reasons. I'll bet if they had to jerk each other off they'd totally look pissed and stuff.

I find that insulting. Everyone here knows I secretly harbor an unrequited love for Hbox. Don't associate me with the wrong liberal!

You're right about me looking pissed off when I masturbate, though.

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[FUNKMAN]

the gov't was looking for a "feel good" story and this situation presented itself... what helped more was it was a woman... if it was a dude it wouldn't have been so heartfelt...

see how us guys get shortchanged... i'm gonna cry...

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[HBox]

I find that insulting. Everyone here knows I secretly harbor an unrequited love for Hbox. Don't associate me with the wrong liberal!


Hey, don't drag me into this sordid love quadrangle!

[silera]

You're right about me looking pissed off when I masturbate, though.

Please post a pic and stop teasing me.


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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=FBF2F7>

[FiveB247]

I save my outrage over war propaganda for SERIOUS situations. Oh my God, maybe they hyped up the circumstances surrounding her rescue in order to boost morale both amongst the troops and on the homefront. HOW DARE THEY.

If the Lynch story involved the U.S. troops slaughtering a few Iraqi women & children in order to get Lynch, then maybe I'd be furious and morally indignant. Did they mindfuck us? Yeah, but frankly, this type of mindfuck doesn't get my panties in quite the same twist as others.

I'm not outraged by this. I never posted this and quite frankly I'm not suprised by it in any respect. It bothers me more that people actually buy into this type of crap. If you somehow don't think little things like this build 'morale' when none is due, you're mistaken.

Thomas Jefferson on Free Press

"Were it left to me to decide . whether we should have a government without newspapers . or newspapers without a government . I should not hesitate a moment . to prefer the latter."

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This message was edited by FiveB247 on 6-2-03 @ 11:48 PM

[high fly]

I don't see why they felt the need to lie. It got them nothing.
Maybe lying is just an instinctual habit with this administration. It's sure starting to look that way.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[travis151]

Ahhhh!!!! Nobody lied this BBC article is so flawed, interview only the people you want to hear from. Thats not reporting. I read back one week after Pt. Lynch was rescued that she didn't recieve bullet wounds. Also for all the people who said that the WMD is a lie are the same ones who said give the U.N. more time to inspect the country. Hans Blix said he needed 9 months to a year to look for weapons. Iraq is the size of California weapons could be anywhere, and they did find two trailers for chemical making. So get the facts straight.

Red Sox=More Better

[DarkHippie]

Did they mindfuck us? Yeah, but frankly, this type of mindfuck doesn't get my panties in quite the same twist as others.
a mindfuck, no matter for what purpose, is a fuck just the same. i'd like my media to report the truth for once.

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[Death Metal Moe]

Fuck the BBC. Their slant on the war we quite evident in their reports.

One of their own reporters complained how slanted their news coverage was.

I think that many parts of this argument are over the ruch to report ANY news there was on Pt. Lynch, and how a lot of it was later proven to be untrue. Now the real facts start to come together and it wasn't as spectacular as it initially seemed.

Bottom line is American servicmen and women risked their lives to rescue one of their own. Maybe not a movie plot, but real people with real values doesn't make entertainment today, does it?

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[high fly]

I just want to bang her.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[high fly]

Good grief, in yesterday's Washington Post is a story saying that Lynch wasn't caught only after running out of ammo.
It says she and many of the other troops in that convoy had their weapons, including a .50 cal. jam on them.
It also said that there would be no disciplinary action taken against whoever got them so far off track and confused, which led to their capture.
Is this evidence of the pussification of the US Army?


" and they ask me why I drink"

This message was edited by high fly on 7-11-03 @ 3:07 PM

[Heavy]

Is this evidence of the pussification of the US Army?

Why would it be?

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[Bergalad]

Is this evidence of the pussification of the US Army?
Two things.

One, it must be the weekend if you are posting.

Two. You want to find out if the Army is "pussified"? I'll be happy to prove you wrong. Have you been in the military? Of course not! Who the fuck are you to call us pussies? Come out from behind your mom and say that to me.

[high fly]

Simply take a look at the path that the errant convoy took, look at all the weapons that apparently weren't maintained properly [otherwise, why would so many of them fail or jam?] and you clearly have a problem with the leadership of that unit.
No one is being held responsible for that disaster where fine US soldiers were killed, wounded and taken prisoner.
Tell me, oh Lad of Berga, when did conservatives stop talking about "taking personal responsibility for your actions and their consequences"?

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Bergalad]

Simply take a look at the path that the errant convoy took, look at all the weapons that apparently weren't maintained properly [otherwise, why would so many of them fail or jam?] and you clearly have a problem with the leadership of that unit.
It would appear that the Company Commander of that unit failed in his responsibilities. From the outside, it looks like there was poor communication, no contingency planning, and no command and control of all the convoy elements. If the Army determines that the CO was negligent, then you can believe that he will be repremanded. Two officers up at Ft Drum just got nailed for improper firing proceedures that led to the deaths of soldiers, just as an example.
Tell me, oh Lad of Berga, when did conservatives stop talking about "taking personal responsibility for your actions and their consequences"?
That is a good question. Why are the Republicans giving tax cuts to those who don't pay taxes? Why are the Republicans creating a massive welfare entitlement for those who don't need it? Why are the Republicans giving $10 billion for AIDS in Africa? Instead of making people independant, we have suddenly become the Democrats. Instead of holding people accountable for their failures, we are rewarding them. This isn't the direction that Conservatives should be headed.

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YO JOE!

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[high fly]

If the Army determines that the CO was negligent, then you can believe that he will be reprimanded

Sorry, BERGALAD, Bud-day, but before the investigation into what happened was over, they announced that no one would be held accountable for the obvious mistakes that were made. They pretty much decided that going in.

" and they ask me why I drink"

This message was edited by high fly on 7-21-03 @ 5:15 PM

[silera]

Why are the Republicans giving $10 billion for AIDS in Africa? Instead of making people independant, we have suddenly become the Democrats. Instead of holding people accountable for their failures, we are rewarding them.


I bet you those Africans got AIDS on purpose in order to milk the US for foreign aid.



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<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[Heavy]

No, but I bet you those Africans with AIDS are raping children because they belive sex with a vigin child cures AIDS

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[mikeyboy]

No, but I bet you those Africans with AIDS are raping children because they belive sex with a vigin child cures AIDS


There's an informed comment... :confuse:

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[Bergalad]

but before the investigation into what happened was over, they announced that no one would be held accountable for the obvious mistakes that were made.
And your source for this information is what?
I bet you those Africans got AIDS on purpose in order to milk the US for foreign aid.

No, they got AIDS because they can't stop fucking eachother. They (as a broad generalization) have no ability or desire to control their actions. That's why we are going in to Liberia to stop civil war, that's why almost every country in Africa is in some level of armed conflict. When the enforcement weapon of choice in South African prisons is gang raping the target by AIDS infected prisoners, then what hope is there for them? JW is right. Raping children is highly common, and let's not forget about the whole C-removal parties for women. Great place.

[FUNKMAN]

they probably don't care about dying because they
have no goals in life. they live in despair and own nothing.

the shame of it is they are all getting laid and half of the guys on this board are playing with themselves...
:)

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[silera]

No, they got AIDS because they can't stop fucking eachother. They (as a broad generalization) have no ability or desire to control their actions. That's why we are going in to Liberia to stop civil war, that's why almost every country in Africa is in some level of armed conflict. When the enforcement weapon of choice in South African prisons is gang raping the target by AIDS infected prisoners, then what hope is there for them? JW is right. Raping children is highly common, and let's not forget about the whole C-removal parties for women. Great place.

That has to be one the most vile, biased, generalized hodgepodge of bullshit revisionist statement I've ever had the displeasure of reading.

AIDS is not "THEIR" problem. Fucking a lot isn't "THEIR" problem. Liberia has nothing to do with whatever the fuck point you were trying to get across. Considering the United States has been involved in some type of war since its inception, how can you even call into question the armed conflicts in Africa as a reason to allow a whole continent to be wiped out by disease? Gang rape in prisons isn't unique to African prisons, as is evident in the fact the child molesters and rapist in the US are usually put in solitary to protect them from prison justice of that very kind here in the civilized US. Last I checked, pedophilia wasn't exclusive to Africa either, and the "C-removal" parties aren't part of every African nations tribal rituals or culture.


AIDS is a disease that people die from. The fact that you seem to think it's ok for other people to die from it because they're not Americans, or you don't approve of their culture, (or more likely you just choose to see their culture as beneath you) is repugnant.

10 billion to save lives is stupid apparently, but 100 billion to destroy them is good thinking.



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<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

This message was edited by silera on 7-21-03 @ 8:28 PM

[sr71blackbird]

Its not like there is a "people shortage" going on anywhere, anyway.
Fuck the British, they are still pissed that we won that war.
How ironic to be against war and pro abortion? Killing is killing. When its our choice and our lives, we choose not to listen to what we say out of one side of our mouth and not the other.


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[silera]

What are you talking about?


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<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[Yerdaddy]

No, they got AIDS because they can't stop fucking eachother. They (as a broad generalization) have no ability or desire to control their actions. That's why we are going in to Liberia to stop civil war, that's why almost every country in Africa is in some level of armed conflict. When the enforcement weapon of choice in South African prisons is gang raping the target by AIDS infected prisoners, then what hope is there for them? JW is right. Raping children is highly common, and let's not forget about the whole C-removal parties for women. Great place.
And your source for this information is what?

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[TheMojoPin]

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[HBox]

This thread would have died the death it deserves many times over already if it weren't for the same stupid dick who always dredges up these threads and has absolutely NOTHING to add. Now look at this thread. Its degenerated into the merits of AIDS funding in Africa. HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?

I blame this all on him. high fly you stupid fucking retard. DIE!

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[high fly]

And your source for this informationis what?

BERGALAD if you'll go back, you'll see my source was given in my post- an article in the Washington Post. My best recollection is that it was a large, front page article by more than one reporter. The main thrust of the article was to correct some misconceptions about what really happened to that convoy.
Though I still have questions about what happened, something I posted a while back in this thread has been bugging me.
In making my point, I threw out that "pussification of the Army" line, just trying to make the point with some show-related smart-aleckiness.
I was wrong.
In spite of the rollicking nature of this board, there are occasions where one may step over the line, and in my own view, I did just that.
Any veterans out there- you have my sincere apology.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Heavy]

There's an informed comment...

Its a very informed comment, do a search and you'll find thats what they do in South(ern) Africa.

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[Yerdaddy]

We've all heard the stories about that type of thing happening, but you're presenting it as THE reason why AIDS is prevalent in the entire fucking continent Africa! Show me a study on African AIDS that even lists baby rapes as being statistically relevant to the overall problem. It's a story that US media picked up and ran with because it's sensational, and it's the only aspect of the problem that you know about for the same reason. But you HAVE to know that you don't know shit about the Africa AIDS epidemic, and you should at least phrase your comments to reflect that in order to not sound like a tool.

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FREE ASS!

[Bergalad]

That has to be one the most vile, biased, generalized hodgepodge of bullshit revisionist statement I've ever had the displeasure of reading.
Don't like the truth? Or is it that you can't blame Bush for this like everything else?
AIDS is not "THEIR" problem. Fucking a lot isn't "THEIR" problem.
Really? Whose problem is it then? Did you force them to fuck and get AIDS? Did I? Who is responsible if they, as you assert, are not?!
Liberia has nothing to do with whatever the fuck point you were trying to get across.

I said:
They (as a broad generalization) have no ability or desire to control their actions. That's why we are going in to Liberia to stop civil war, that's why almost every country in Africa is in some level of armed conflict.
Clear?
Considering the United States has been involved in some type of war since its inception, how can you even call into question the armed conflicts in Africa as a reason to allow a whole continent to be wiped out by disease?
When did I espouse genocide? You accuse me, so where did I say anything like that? Read, then comment. Case in point:
Gang rape in prisons isn't unique to African prisons, as is evident in the fact the child molesters and rapist in the US are usually put in solitary to protect them from prison justice of that very kind here in the civilized US.
but I said
When the enforcement weapon of choice in South African prisons is gang raping the target by AIDS infected prisoners, then what hope is there for them?
See?! Please.
The fact that you seem to think it's ok for other people to die from it because they're not Americans, or you don't approve of their culture, (or more likely you just choose to see their culture as beneath you) is repugnant.
What is "repugnant" is your rush to accuse me of something I didn't say. I don't want anyone to die of anything, let alone AIDS. To say I want anything else is completely wrong. No, I don't approve of what they do in Africa, but I don't wish death upon them.

[TheMojoPin]

The majority of AIDS cases in Africa are the result of a lack of education in regards to basic modern medicine and the disease itself. It's really that simple. In the majority of cases it's NOBODY'S fault...it's a basic lack of knowledge and understanding of what may be happening, unfortunately. That's just how it is. And trying to blame somebody, ANYBODY for this serves to accomplish NOTHING.

Africa truly is the one place in the world where you have several hundred years worth of culture/technology/tradition all slamming into each other. It's a shitty situation that, like with the Middle East, was created once the colonial powers suddenly up and left and created these "countries" that had NEVER existed before, throwing together people who hate each other, who have different customs and religions, different levels of technology, different types of government...who never had to live together before. It's about the closest this planet has to anarchy...it's nobody's fault, that's just how history went down and that's the root of these problems today.

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[Heavy]

Show me a study on African AIDS that even lists baby rapes as being statistically relevant to the overall problem. It's a story that US media picked up and ran with because it's sensational, and it's the only aspect of the problem that you know about for the same reason.



Well I saw something saying %40 of children in a certain place had AIDS and they got it from being raped by adults. I'm talking about young kids like8 years old. I dont remember exactly what country but im pretty sure it was South Africa. As far as the U.S media carrying this story goes, I know nothing baout that. Thats not where I heard about this and its not why I'm bringing it up.

Mad props to Fluff for the sig and C.O.soup for hosting!
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[silera]

Bergelad you are wrong, biggoted, and a complete ass for everything you posted.

Simply put, you can think whatever the fuck you want but what you said has no fucking place in this discussion and you can try to back it up with more words and quotes and it still won't take away from the fact that you have a problem with the US providing support for a distressed country to deal with a problem and try to save lives, but apparently have no problem with the same excuse is used to justify a war that costs 10 times as much.

Your comments are still as vile and disgusting this time around, and even moreso because the most I expected from you was to at least imply that you were being inflammatory by posting those things and did recognize that the AIDS epidemic was due to more factors.



<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[high fly]

When was Private Lynch in Africa?
Did she get AIDS or something?
I try to read and keep up with things, but somehow I missed this one.
Guess I'll have to read harder.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[silera]

Don't like the truth? Or is it that you can't blame Bush for this like everything else?


Find where I blame Bush for everything, or anything at all as a matter of fact, and I'll suck your dick.

In the interim, kindly lick my asshole before I shave it.

<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[NewYorkDragons80]

it's nobody's fault, that's just how history went down and that's the root of these problems today.
Well, nobody who is alive, anyway.

I am fucking ashamed of most Republicans that are against aid to Africa and specifically, Liberia. They talk endlessly about securing our borders, but fail to realize the chief reason people come to this country: because theirs is really fucked up. If we want to cut down on immigration, start improving underdeveloped countries and kickstart their economies.

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[Yerdaddy]

Aw that's bullshit! I'm on her side and I don't get to lick Silera's stubbly asshole! Africa sucks! Bush-basher!

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[IrishAlkey]

You guys have found out my secret.

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[Yerdaddy]

Conservative rhetoric as foreplay? It's genius! I worship you.

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[high fly]

I'm in love with Silera

" and they ask me why I drink"

[East Side Dave]

I loved those puppets in that Phil Collins video, they were on a show called Follies Rock and I think they had real hands becau-...wrong thread. I...I am sorry.

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Big Ass Mafia

[Bergalad]

In the majority of cases it's NOBODY'S fault...it's a basic lack of knowledge and understanding of what may be happening, unfortunately. That's just how it is. And trying to blame somebody, ANYBODY for this serves to accomplish NOTHING.
A lack of knowledge, yes. Still, you mean to tell me they don't understand that something's wrong when they see people around them dying? There has to be some level of personal accountability here, no matter how different their society is from ours.
Bergelad you are wrong, biggoted, and a complete ass for everything you posted.
Fine. If that's the way you want it. Sorry to rattle you so badly. Heaven forbid any rational discussion, let's resort to name-calling. That's Silera's way!
...you have a problem with the US providing support for a distressed country to deal with a problem and try to save lives, but apparently have no problem with the same excuse is used to justify a war that costs 10 times as much.
Where did I say I was against the $15 Billion AIDS package? I didn't, and in fact in a separate thread I praised President Bush for taking the lead in the fight against AIDS. Any non-casual reader of these threads would remember this.
...I expected from you was to at least imply that you were being inflammatory by posting those things and did recognize that the AIDS epidemic was due to more factors.
Sure, there are several factors which contribute to the AIDS epidemic. The biggest factor is they continue to fuck eachother! That's what's spreading the disease! You want to try and slander me by saying I am a racist, and that's completely wrong. It has nothing to do with what color they are. They lack scientific knowledge, but primarily they lack basic self control. How do you disagree with that? Get mad at me, call me names, whatever, but the fact remains if there was no fucking, AIDS cases would Dr0p through the floor. So let's educate them, tell them to wrap before banging, and then see what happens. Until then, maybe they (and everyone else) should take some personal responsibility and be more careful.
Find where I blame Bush for everything, or anything at all as a matter of fact, and I'll suck your dick.
Well...what about when you said this:
think Bush and company are liars that had an agenda even before 9/11 happened. I believe that they used a combination of the truth, lies, exageration, fantasy and pulling at America's heartstrings to go to war to further their own gain.

or this:
I don't see Bush earning my trust ever. I really don't believe him. I don't like the way he speaks. I don't like his poor choice of words. I don't like the way he handles our money. I don't like the way he sees issues as if we're playing out some old western where there are good guys and bad guys and the only victors are the ones that draw their guns first. I am saddened at his reckless use of our military, and worse yet I believe that he does believe he is doing the right thing (even if he has to lie to do it), which makes me think on top of all the other things, that he is not a very smart person.
Find them
here. (http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=87&Topic=30582)
Sounds like you do blame him, and for a lot. Get your mouth ready, because I wear I size 13 extra wide shoe.

[silera]

Where did I say I was against the $15 Billion AIDS package? I didn't, and in fact in a separate thread I praised President Bush for taking the lead in the fight against AIDS. Any non-casual reader of these threads would remember this.


Here:


Why are the Republicans giving $10 billion for AIDS in Africa? Instead of making people independant, we have suddenly become the Democrats. Instead of holding people accountable for their failures, we are rewarding them. This isn't the direction that Conservatives should be headed.

And those two statements you quoted do not reflect me placing blame on Bush for everything or anything at all. I don't trust him. I don't like the direction he's taken us in. I even go so far as to say that his actions are probably born of a noble intent. I don't say it's his fault that everything is fucked up, because that would be stupid, as were your comments.


<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[HBox]

Still, you mean to tell me they don't understand that something's wrong when they see people around them dying?

How would they connect sex with disease when they have little, if no education?


Heaven forbid any rational discussion


This is rational discussion?

No, they got AIDS because they can't stop fucking eachother. They (as a broad generalization) have no ability or desire to control their actions. That's why we are going in to Liberia to stop civil war, that's why almost every country in Africa is in some level of armed conflict. When the enforcement weapon of choice in South African prisons is gang raping the target by AIDS infected prisoners, then what hope is there for them? JW is right. Raping children is highly common, and let's not forget about the whole C-removal parties for women. Great place.


I, and most of us, find that paragraph highly irrational.

You want to try and slander me by saying I am a racist, and that's completely wrong.


He is correct. I believe a more accurate term would be ethnocentric.BTW, I predict a Begalad reply supporting his ethnocentrism.

How do you disagree with that?

[font=Century Gothic]How do you come to that conclusion? Have you been to Africa?

Get mad at me, call me names, whatever, but the fact remains if there was no fucking, AIDS cases would Dr0p through the floor.

The same is true here. African people don't have a problem not fucking, PEOPLE have a problem not fucking.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[TooCute]

Aw that's bullshit! I'm on her side and I don't get to lick Silera's stubbly asshole! Africa sucks! Bush-basher!


But silera has no bush.

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[shamus mcfitzy]

a mindfuck, no matter for what purpose, is a fuck just the same. i'd like my media to report the truth for once.


maybe on earth 2 you will find media that does not have bias. Patriotism is so overrated in that way.

And i agree with high fly......i'd fuck jessica lynch too.

[Bergalad]

Silera, my comments on the AIDS package were part of a larger paragraph (which you conveniently don't quote) that was meant to answer High Fly's question about Conservatives not enforcing personal responsibility. I stated, in full:
That is a good question. Why are the Republicans giving tax cuts to those who don't pay taxes? Why are the Republicans creating a massive welfare entitlement for those who don't need it? Why are the Republicans giving $10 billion for AIDS in Africa? Instead of making people independant, we have suddenly become the Democrats. Instead of holding people accountable for their failures, we are rewarding them. This isn't the direction that Conservatives should be headed.
I am not against the AIDS package, I am against giving money to people without asking them to take some responsibility for themselves. That means anyone, not just those in Africa. Why do you want to coddle everyone (except me of course) and say they aren't ultimately responsible for their actions?
And those two statements you quoted do not reflect me placing blame on Bush for everything or anything at all.
Whoa. Didn't see that coming!

Oh, and HBox,
The same is true here. African people don't have a problem not fucking, PEOPLE have a problem not fucking.
Absolutely, and that's why I didn't only say Africans, but everyone when I said
Until then, maybe they (and everyone else) should take some personal responsibility and be more careful.

[silera]

I had a problem with the AIDS comment.

That's why I quoted it. If you do not have a problem with the 10 billion going to AIDS treatment in Africa, why include it in your statement?

I am not going to convince you that your statements were uncalled for, and inflammatory. You can't convince me otherwise.




<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[Se7en]

The same is true here. African people don't have a problem not fucking, PEOPLE have a problem not fucking.

No, Africans have a problem fucking without a condom.

And screw this "they have no education" bullshit. Enough African men know what a condom is, they just choose not to wear one. And who can blame them?

<img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/captainamerica.jpg" width="300" height="100">
<br>
<br>
Is the Captain a member of the proud <b>2%</b>?

[Yerdaddy]

"Personal responsibility," as Bergalad is applying to the African AIDS epidemic is simply a red herring. It allows him to make the claim that until all Africans stop all fucking then we need not care about the problem, and that it is all their own fault. Nevermind all that hundreds if not thousands of organizations are working in Africa to stop the spread of AIDS incorporate some version of "personal responsibility" in the form of education in how the disease is transmitted and how condom use or abstinance are the most effective way of preventing it. There are no welfare checks being passed out to HIV+ people encouraging people to get AIDS so they can live for free on Bergalad's hard earned money. Nobody is suggesting that Africans don't have to take responsibility for themselves, but to apply "personal responsibility" to the problem in the form you suggest is to set an impossible standard of conduct before any aid or attention would be given to the problem. AIDS in Africa is a massively complicated issue that involves all the other problems that Africa has to deal with. And it isn't just the people who get AIDS and die that is the problem. It is a drain on the labor force, the economies, the medical systems, the resources of the civil societies, etc. that are affected. So the majority of Africans who do take "personal responsibility" still feel the effects of the problems of their continent as a whole, just as we as individuals reep the benefits of being in America. But fuck them too, right Berg? The oversimplification of the issue to: it's their own fault for fucking, is Bergalad's way of saying he doesn't care. Which is his perogative, but it is also his way of complaining about other people who do care. Personally, I think it matters because it is one more thing that creates failed states and thus breeding grounds for terrorism, and to leave the continent as a festering wound of history is just not an option. But Bergalad wants his view to win over so he throws out the red herring to skew the debate, and to make himself feel superior. If it wasn't so common among like-minded people it would just be sad.

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[sr71blackbird]

If we want to cut down on immigration, start improving underdeveloped countries and kickstart their economies.


When the hell did anyone do that to US when we were a developing country? Since when is it our job to secure a safe and sound civilization all around the world? We have pride here because everything we have is what we have worked for without outside assistance. Let the rest of the world fend for themselves. Let the African continent find a way to save itself and develop on its own. We planted the seed through demonstartion what a country can do. I for one dont want my tax dollars funding something that will never benefit us. Does any other creature on the earth do anything remotely as compassionate as us? And is there any country as despised as the USA is right now? Fuck them!!! They deserve extinction.

<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/imagestorage/SR71.jpg">

[IrishAlkey]

Oofa.

<center>http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/alkey2.gif</center><marquee><font color=r

[Yerdaddy]

When the hell did anyone do that to US when we were a developing country?
1. There weren't any developed countries when we were a developing country. 2. We did get help winning our independence, but I can't say by who because I think you conservatives are still enforcing your political correctness rules about that.

Since when is it our job to secure a safe and sound civilization all around the world?
It's in our national security interest. "The United States will fight poverty, disease, and oppression because it is the right thing to do -- and the smart thing to do. We have seen how poor states can become weak or even failed states, vulnerable to hijacking by terrorist networks -- with potentially catastrophic consequences." --<a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021001-6.html" target="_blank">Dr. Condoleezza Rice Discusses President's National Security Strategy</a>

We have pride here because everything we have is what we have worked for without outside assistance.
And we got a nice boost from the fact that we have been isolated from external aggression, we happen to sit on the most resource-rich territory on the planet, we inherited one of the most politically progressive cultures in the world at the time of our birth, and it didn't hurt that WWII doubled our economy, pulled us out of the Great Depression and was fought on the soil of every rival we had, devistating them and our economy, our civilian populations and our infrastructure untouched. We should have pride, but not the arrogance you espouse.

Does any other creature on the earth do anything remotely as compassionate as us?
Well, we do give less of a percentage of our GDP in overseas development aid than any other developed country.

And is there any country as despised as the USA is right now?
And you're trying to overcome that by posting your own xenophibia on the internet? Nice plan.
Fuck them!!! They deserve extinction.
We are a great country, but my honest opinion is that people like you make it less so, and I wish, through some mix-up at the INS, you could be deported to a diamond mine village in the Congo.

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[East Side Dave]

Has anyone seen my pot? I can't find my pot.

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[Captain Rooster]

Good Lord, did a cow shit in here?

This board loves to feed off bullshit and rumor. Sad.



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[East Side Dave]

Then I says we slaughter these deranged fucking cows! They probably ate my pot, too!

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Big Ass Mafia

[NewYorkDragons80]

Since when is it our job to secure a safe and sound civilization all around the world?
Since 9/11 when assholes replaced "Border Control" with "Border Protection."

And is there any country as despised as the USA is right now?
So... let's dick over sub-Saharan Africa, one of the few places where you can find people that don't hate, but downright love us.

2. We did get help winning our independence, but I can't say by who because I think you conservatives are still enforcing your political correctness rules about that.
The French Monarchy. A revolution and 6 republics later, they are led by a corrupt government, mired in its own unilateralism when it invaded the Cote D'Ivoire and tried to rescue the vicious Rwandan government. I still value French history from Vercingetorix to Napolean to Voltaire. That doesn't mean that I don't think Chirac is a fiendish leader.

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This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 7-24-03 @ 12:07 AM

[TheMojoPin]

Still, you mean to tell me they don't understand that something's wrong when they see people around them dying?

People die all the time. AIDS acts and appears and kills in a number of ways. If you have little to no education as to how this disease works or spreads, or that it even exists, how likely is it that you're going to magically stumble upon what exactly AIDS is and how it's spread? Education, my friend...it's the key here...it's the most powerful tool we and anyone else can possibly hope to have...

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[TheMojoPin]

And screw this "they have no education" bullshit. Enough African men know what a condom is, they just choose not to wear one.

That's flat out wrong. You're really underestimating how isolated the majority of Africans are. And even those that even know what condoms are have little to no access to readily getting them. And if you're not educated as to what exactly these condoms can stop you from getting, why even bother using them? Throwing a condom at someone solves nothing if the person it's being thrown at has NO idea what they may prevent. Think about it.

"Hey, someone gave me a condom. Let's see what it does. Hmmmm, OK, it goes on my dinkle...hmmm, this sucks mightily, and not in a good way. Off she goes!" If you've NEVER been told what this thing will stop, why the hell would you wear it? It took the rest of the world more than just a few CENTURIES to come up with this kinda protection. And we expect all of Africa to catch up (Even though socially and technologically much of the continent is anywhere from 100-300 years behind the "rest of us") in just a couple of decades? Right.
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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 7-24-03 @ 1:23 AM

[NewYorkDragons80]

Enough African men know what a condom is, they just choose not to wear one.

http://www.zicline.com/an3/semaine33/nelson.jpg
You know how much condoms cost? We don't know, we never used 'em.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
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This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 7-24-03 @ 1:30 AM

[Heavy]

Listen lets face some facts. The majority of Africa is living in huts and chucking spears, bottom line. its not racist, its fact. If AIDS hit America or Europe a few hundereds years ago, we or they would be fucked. Thats the way it is. But with that said I dont care. Like someone said not to long ago, there no shortage pf people on this earth. Edit:::
Mad props to Fluff for the sig and C.O.soup for hosting!
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This message was edited by johneewadd on 7-24-03 @ 1:56 AM

[Bergalad]

"Personal responsibility," as Bergalad is applying to the African AIDS epidemic is simply a red herring.
If you're smelling fish, change who you date.

YD, you enjoy wording people to death. They get tired of reading about halfway through and assume that since you say so much and it's worded so well that you must be right. I understand quite well the socio-economic factors that allows AIDS and other STDs to flourish in Africa. I have read the same reports you have no doubt. I know that some reports call into question which is the leading cause of the spread of the virus: sex or improper medical procedures. Still, it's safe to say that the biggest transmitter of HIV is through sexual activity. Obscure the issues all you want, it comes down to a person making a choice on how and if they have sex. The people of Africa are not by any means stupid, yet you want to take any accountability they have away from them. It's disempowering of an entire culture, and it's something that Democrats do quite well.

I want to find a cure for HIV as much as anyone else, and to say that I don't care about the plight of those in Africa and around the world with this disease is completely false. Why you and Silera are upset that I think people should be ultimately responsible for their actions is beyond me. That doesn't mean let them die, it means teach them to take care of themselves. Once those in Africa actually comprehend the danger they are in, then a reversal of the epidemic can begin. Why is this so difficult to understand? This thread is way off topic, and I will now punch out.

[Heavy]

well said.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:uog_c97jq7EC:www.arcadeshop.com/pics/lock.jpg

Mad props to Fluff for the sig and C.O.soup for hosting!
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[sr71blackbird]

We are a great country, but my honest opinion is that people like you make it less so, and I wish, through some mix-up at the INS, you could be deported to a diamond mine village in the Congo.


Screw you! Mr high and mighty! You think your shit dont stink? Then go send your paycheck to them and stop whining. We have better things to do then listen to you sitting here in luxury bitching about how bad things are everywhere else. If you walked down those muddy streets, they woud descend on you and either beg endlessly or tear you apart. They need to pick themselves up by their bootstraps and get themselves out of their own predicament. True they didnt create their own mess, but with #s, they can certainly make a difference, sow the seeds to revolution or whatever. Dont preach here, because it gets you no where. I believe that if they cannot get themselves out of it without our or anyones help, they deserve extinction. The strong survive. You liberals want us to overextend our economy to "save the world" so that our culture collapses and we become a socialist utopia, but I do not want to live in your utopia, so go try and make it elsewhere, dingbat. You scum lapping shit bag, commie, pinko creep!

<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/imagestorage/SR71.jpg">

[TheMojoPin]

They need to pick themselves up by their bootstraps and get themselves out of their own predicament. True they didnt create their own mess, but with #s, they can certainly make a difference, sow the seeds to revolution or whatever. Dont preach here, because it gets you no where. I believe that if they cannot get themselves out of it without our or anyones help, they deserve extinction.

Dude, honestly.

None of what you just said here actually means anything. It reads like some vague self-help manual. "Sow the seeds of revolution"? Against what, AIDS? Whatta weirdo...

If you don't "get" the situation or want to care or be informed, then shut up and ignore it. Nobody's asking you to do a goddamn thing. And please, don't give me some kind of ridiculous "I'd be paying less taxes if we weren't helping Africa" becuase you wouldn't and that's stupid.

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[TooCute]

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[Yerdaddy]

Let me put it this way: when someone in Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan, or Panama, wherever spews hatred about America, I hope one of their countrymen to call them on their shit. But why would we expect others not to hate us when we hate them? I'm sick of Americans complaining that everyone hates them then turning around and slandering people of other countries that they don't know a damn thing about. And here you two clowns wishing death on a whole continent of people. Oh yeah, it fits your ideology. Well too fucking bad! 1. You're wrong, and 2. you're embarrassments.


yet you want to take any accountability they have away from them. It's disempowering of an entire culture
How the fuck do you take someone's accountability away from them? Do you even think about this shit before you type or did you lift it from the ideologue manual?

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[IrishAlkey]

When the hell did anyone do that to US when we were a developing country?
1. There weren't any developed countries when we were a developing country. 2. We did get help winning our independence, but I can't say by who because I think you conservatives are still enforcing your political correctness rules about that.

Since when is it our job to secure a safe and sound civilization all around the world?
It's in our national security interest. "The United States will fight poverty, disease, and oppression because it is the right thing to do -- and the smart thing to do. We have seen how poor states can become weak or even failed states, vulnerable to hijacking by terrorist networks -- with potentially catastrophic consequences." --<a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021001-6.html" target="_blank">Dr. Condoleezza Rice Discusses President's National Security Strategy</a>

We have pride here because everything we have is what we have worked for without outside assistance.
And we got a nice boost from the fact that we have been isolated from external aggression, we happen to sit on the most resource-rich territory on the planet, we inherited one of the most politically progressive cultures in the world at the time of our birth, and it didn't hurt that WWII doubled our economy, pulled us out of the Great Depression and was fought on the soil of every rival we had, devistating them and our economy, our civilian populations and our infrastructure untouched. We should have pride, but not the arrogance you espouse.

Does any other creature on the earth do anything remotely as compassionate as us?
Well, we do give less of a percentage of our GDP in overseas development aid than any other developed country.

And is there any country as despised as the USA is right now?
And you're trying to overcome that by posting your own xenophibia on the internet? Nice plan.
Fuck them!!! They deserve extinction.
We are a great country, but my honest opinion is that people like you make it less so, and I wish, through some mix-up at the INS, you could be deported to a diamond mine village in the Congo.

This is what I meant by "oofa".

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[sr71blackbird]

You guys keep acting like yours is the only ideology out there and you grandstand to make your point and attemp to obscure the facts and try and humiliate people who's ideas are different. This is why this is the least popular section, if you read my other post in Lounge about unknown posters. It is very obvious that you have some agenda if you disagree with the most obvious statement I make. The people of Africa are greatly outnumber the amount of people that make up the various governments and military on the African continent. Remember the plane that crashed in the field in Pennsylvania? The regular, unarmed, untrained passengers had the balls to assemble themselves and agree that to fight the terrorists was worth it, for the greater good. They sacrificed themselves and stopped a terrorist plan. Can you argue this point? What you are likely to say is that that situation is completely different from whats going on in Africa. There are a great number of people there and if a revolution takes place in some part of Africa and news spreads, then it is likely it will happen elsewhere, which will be good. My point is that they must be given the opportunity to do it alone. After the US became independent and had its revolution, France also had a revolution. The only time we should intervene is when a people's liberation will have some type of economic benefit for us. We shouldnt just help people simply because its the "right thing to do". I know that sounds cruel, but what is the alternative? Where do we draw the line? How is helping all the world conflicts benefit us? Why do we have a military to defend our country and send them all around the globe? I dont see a benefit in Africa. They dont make anything we need. They dont export anything of value (except diamonds and kisi stone). Seriously, when you think about what we just did in Iraq, dont you see that we accomplihed a few things. We gave the control of the oil fields to the Iraqi people (Im sure they will sell us some and a real good price). This liberation will enrich the Iraqi people. We took away the boogy man from the people. We set the stage for a fair government. We did what we did because it was the right thing to do. If this was an African govt. I seriously doubt we would do what we did for no economic benefit. Its all about money, and thats not a bad thing when it also is a descent thing to do. All this doesnt mean that they shouldnt be helped or that they are any less important as a people. Im simply saying that just because there is dirt on the ocean floor, doesnt mean that we should go down there and clean it up.

<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/imagestorage/SR71.jpg">

[HBox]

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do you?

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[Yerdaddy]

This is why this is the least popular section, if you read my other post in Lounge about unknown posters.
Gee now I'm sorry I missed that one. But I don't go in the lounge. Who are you again?

<IMG SRC="http://czm.racknine.net/images/yersig.gif">
CZM productions

FREE ASS!

[TooCute]

Wow. Just wow.

I move to give blackbird his own forum and to name him "most entertaining poster on the board".



<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
!! 2% !!<font color=FBF2F7>

[TheMojoPin]

The people of Africa are greatly outnumber the amount of people that make up the various governments and military on the African continent. Remember the plane that crashed in the field in Pennsylvania? The regular, unarmed, untrained passengers had the balls to assemble themselves and agree that to fight the terrorists was worth it, for the greater good. They sacrificed themselves and stopped a terrorist plan. Can you argue this point? What you are likely to say is that that situation is completely different from whats going on in Africa. There are a great number of people there and if a revolution takes place in some part of Africa and news spreads, then it is likely it will happen elsewhere, which will be good. My point is that they must be given the opportunity to do it alone.

What the FUCK does this have to with AIDS or the US supplying anti-AIDS funding?

Again...

YOU.

CAN'T.

REVOLT.

AGAINST.

AIDS.

We're not giving Africa money for the hell of it...it's money to finance AIDS relief and programs IN Africa.

Christ.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[high fly]

"Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease. And it suffers from poverty as well."
---George W. Bush, June 14, 2001

" and they ask me why I drink"

[high fly]

"Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease. And it suffers from poverty as well."
---George W. Bush, June 14, 2001

" and they ask me why I drink"