PUBLIC IRAQ FORUM and LOBBY DAYS!

[TheMojoPin]

And it starts on my birthday, too...how appropro...

Again, if you disagree with what's being said, the most you can say is by not showing up. So if that's the case...why bother mucking up this thread? If you're interested, go...you just may run into yerdaddy and I there. If not, don't go. Simple, really.

Oh, and this wasn't an article, so I had no link to link it to. Sorry.

[quote]EPIC's 5th Annual
IRAQ FORUM and LOBBY DAYS
June 14-17 2003
Washington DC

Iraq is under military occupation. Looting and lawlessness
prevails, undermining efforts to deliver emergency aid and
reestablish essential public services.

Christian Aid reports: "In Baghdad and elsewhere security
problems seem to be worsening, with many places too dangerous to
access and people fearing for their safety, even in their own
homes...Parents are still unwilling to send their children back
to school, fearing for their safety."

Because of water and sanitation conditions, an outbreak of
cholera and other water borne diseases threatens Baghdad and
Southern Iraq (WHO 5/20/03). More than 300,000 Iraqi children
face death from acute malnutrition, twice as many as before U.S.
and British forces invaded the country (Reuters 5/14/03).

Despite these growing threats, Pentagon officials remain
unwilling to allow the UN a major role in Iraq. Instead, they
appear intent on installing Ahmed Chalabi in power, backed by a
U.S. military presence not popular election.

Now more than ever the Iraqi people need your advocacy and
support. Join us for a Summer of Solidarity with the People of
Iraq. The summer begins June 14-17 2003 with EPIC's 5th Annual
IRAQ FORUM and LOBBY DAYS in Washington DC.

Join PHEBE MARR, PhD, author of the Modern History of Iraq
(2003); MIKE AMITAY of the Washington Kurdish Institute; JUAN
COLE, PhD, author of Sacred Space and Holy War: The Politics,
Culture and History of Shi'ite Islam (2002); and STEPHEN ZUNES,
PhD, a senior policy analyst with the Foreign Policy in Focus
Project and author of Tinderbox: U.S. Middle East Policy and the
Roots of Terrorism (2002); and BILL FRELLICK, Director of
Amnesty International USA's Refugee Program.

Other invited speakers include: SEYMOUR HERSH, acclaimed
investigative journalist; GEORGE DEVENDORF, Mercy Corps'
director for Emergency Operations; NICOLA REINDORP of OxFam
International; and ALISTAIR MILLAR of the Fourth Freedom Forum.
A full schedule and additional details will be provided by email
to registered participants.

REGISTER ONLINE TODAY at
http://epicalert.c.tclk.net/maaa58LaaX67JbdnSuNb/

THE IRAQ FORUM (Saturday, June 14, 2003) is a day-long
educational seminar with some of the most knowledgeable experts
on Iraq and U.S. policy. This event joins policy experts,
educators, human rights advocates, concerned citizens, students
and others concerned about Iraq's uncertain future. It provides
firsthand accounts of life in post-war Iraq, updates on
humanitarian and security conditions, and insights about the
prospects for a free, just and peaceful Iraq.

Sponsors of the IRAQ FORUM include: Amnesty International - USA,
Friends Committee on National Legislation (FCNL), Fourth Freedom
Forum, the National Coalition to Win Without War, and the
Methodist General Board of Church and Society.


Also register for June 15-17 for EPIC's high-powered advocacy
training and Lobby Days.

ADVOCACY TRAINING (Sunday, June 15) provides participants with
training, knowledge and confidence to effectively advocate for
the Iraqi people, whether you're new to Capitol Hill or a
seasoned grassroots lobbyist.

LOBBY DAYS (Monday, June 16, and Tuesday, June 17) immediately
follows a weekend of speakers and advocacy training. Meet with
your elected officials and other key congressional offices to
discuss humanitarian and human rights conditions in Iraq. Help
us hold our elected representatives accountable for the
consequences of this war. During Lobby Days, we will deliever
the Citizens' Humanitarian Pledge
([url]http://e

[Aggie]

And it starts on my birthday, too


Whatever. You just wanted to post this so we wouldn't forget your birthday, you're not really going.

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Go New Jersey!!
I <3 Marty

[HBox]

Everyone hail Mojo, SUPER-ACTIVIST!!!!!!

[A.J.]

Erik Gustafson


Isn't he the guy R&F had on before the war in Iraq started?

<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">

A Skidmark production.

[TheMojoPin]

He is indeed.

Aggie, I demand gifts and tributes. Anything less will be met with smiting.

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Bergalad]

Again, if you disagree with what's being said, the most you can say is by not showing up. So if that's the case...why bother mucking up this thread?
If your goal is to censor commentary on posts, then you shouldn't post anything. And I can say a lot more than not showing up, which of course I will be doing. This group "EPIC" that sponsors the US-bashing rally you are so eager to attend, how much do you know about them? Do you know they firmly blame the US for killing over 5,000 Iraqi children each month during the sanctions? http://epic-usa.org/thecrisis/. The decry the US for not letting the UN have enough say in post-war Iraq, yet blame mainly the US for the UNITED NATIONS ENACTED sanctions. Hell, their site says the Iraqi people
...can currently blame the misery of the Iraqi people on the United States. This is the group you are asking us to support on one hand and lecturing us to not badmouth with the other hand. I expected more of you Mojo. Are you now like the idiots out in SF who were going to protests sponsored by radical groups and didn't know they were doing it? Do you actually believe the crap this group espouses?

[Yerdaddy]

Re. Seymour Hersh: he's interested but won't know until the 7th if he can attend.

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[TheMojoPin]

This is the group you are asking us to support on one hand and lecturing us to not badmouth with the other hand. I expected more of you Mojo.

I'm not asking anyone to support it. I'm not asking anyone to think a certain way. I'm not "censoring" anyone. I was posting it for those who may be interested because there are quite a few people on this board who are in the DC area who might feel motivated to go. I didn't want this thread to turn into a debate for OR against the event or the opinions expressed therein, just simply a notice that it's out there. If you have a different speaking event or rally you want to present for anyone who may wish to attend it, why not go ahead and post it? I just wanted to keep this thread civil, short and to the point, but I guess even that's too difficult.

I stated very clearly that the most powerul way to express your opinion is to not go to this event. I provided several links to EPIC's website, so I'm hardly trying to "hide" anything. Why try and provoke a fight where it's not necessary? People and organizations exist out there that have different views and opinions from you and I. It's up to each of us whether or not we wish to subscribe to these ideas or attend events such as this.

And no, I don't "support" EPIC in any way, shape or form. I'm simply impressed with the speakers who have been gathered I think it would interesting for those who wish to attend. EPIC happens to be the group organizing it. I don't HAVE to to cowtow to their way of thinking or their opinions. It's a welcome alternative to simply blocking traffic and screaming some asinine "NO WAR FOR OIL!!!"-type slogan.

But please, feel free to argue away. I asked (Or if it makes you feel better, "CENSORED!!1111!!11!" OMG!111!11111!!!) people to simply save the bickering for the other threads designed to do so, but apparently that was just too goddamn hard.

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 5-30-03 @ 4:38 PM

[Yerdaddy]

Do you know they firmly blame the US for killing over 5,000 Iraqi children each month during the sanctions?
They are/were opposed to the sanctions regime that targeted the Iraqi population, while leaving the regime in power, and in fact strengthened his grip on the people of Iraq. The US and England were the principal military and diplomatic sponsors of the sanctions regime, so changing US policy is the primary objective of the organization, and the sources of information that this organization uses are clearly cited on every page. Spin that as anti-US if you want, but your opinions have meant shit up to this point.

Hell, their site says the Iraqi people

Quote:
...can currently blame the misery of the Iraqi people on the United States.


Nice textbook job of taking a quote out of context. The full sentence says:

Lifting economic sanctions would take a powerful propaganda weapon away from Saddam Hussein, who can currently blame the misery of the Iraqi people on the United States.

You don't know what you're talking about and I'm not going to take FiveB's place bitching it out with you.

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[Bergalad]

Thanks Mojo for explaining your position on this. I don't want to pick an argument, but I want to make clear that this group has some unsettling and radical opinions that should be exposed before people go willy-nilly out to support them. I wasn't trying to crash the thread, just make a comment about the group. I KNOW you would do the same, and that is fine by me.

Yerdaddy, I haven't ever said anything to any of your posts, but I guess you want that to change. I understand that you have some mythical aspect about you on this board, but that doesn't excuse or warrant attacks by you. Case in point:
Spin that as anti-US if you want, but your opinions have meant shit up to this point.

They might not mean anything to you, and I don't care one bit. The sanctions are UN-sponsored, voted on and approved time and again by the entire Council, not just the US or UK. Let's not pretend and say the US controls the Council either, as that was already disproven over the Iraq war. To blame the US and not the UN, let alone Saddam himself, for the suffering of the Iraqi people is idiotic. No spin necessary, only clear-thinking and common sense.
Nice textbook job of taking a quote out of context.
I know what the full sentence said. That's besides the point. With the whole sentence there or not, either way the group says the Iraqis should blame the US. I didn't in any way change what the point of that sentence was, so don't go trying to make it seem like I did.
You don't know what you're talking about and I'm not going to take FiveB's place bitching it out with you.
I wouldn't ask you to take his place. I think Five has a sense of humor, while you obviously have a constipation problem caused by your head. I do know what I am talking about, thanks. You obviously have a lot of time to research the issues you care about, and seem to be informed on your positions, which I applaud. I don't agree with everything you post, but I do read them with interest and an open mind. I ask you try doing the same.

[TheMojoPin]

Thanks Mojo for explaining your position on this. I don't want to pick an argument, but I want to make clear that this group has some unsettling and radical opinions that should be exposed before people go willy-nilly out to support them. I wasn't trying to crash the thread, just make a comment about the group. I KNOW you would do the same, and that is fine by me.

Understood. I appreciate the sentiments, and your opinions on EPIC.

BUT...

I know what the full sentence said. That's besides the point. With the whole sentence there or not, either way the group says the Iraqis should blame the US. I didn't in any way change what the point of that sentence was, so don't go trying to make it seem like I did.

The sentence very clearly said that removing the sanctions while Saddam was in power would have taken away a signifcant bit of propoganda he used on his people. He DID continually blame the US and only the US for food and medical shortages, making it even harder for anyone, especially the US, to turn his people against him. The sentence nowhere says or implies that the Iraqis reasonably did or should blame the Americans, only that Saddam could lie, twist and spin the situation anyway he wanteds so that it APPEARED to blame the Americans.

It's not too difficult to find imflammatory statements and ideas on EPIC's site, but to be fair, this really is far from one of them. Hope this clears everything up.

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 5-30-03 @ 6:38 PM

[Bergalad]

It's not too difficult to find imflammatory statements and ideas on EPIC's site, but to be fair, this really is far from one of them.
Very true, it's one of the first I found in a quick search today. Maybe I took the statement the wrong way, but I don't think so. They say "can currently blame", not "because of (the propaganda) they blame". I feel this is a big distinction. That's where I was coming from, and if I was way off on that, then my bad. All this aside, I look forward to a continuation of this post after you attend the event and are able to give a report about what went on. After that I am sure you will be able to let me know if my reservations about this group are founded or not. Have a good weekend.

[high fly]

Anyone notice that we're averaging nearly one US soldier killed per day since the war ended?
I guess it's ok to lose them, now that we're all so much safer and all now.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[TheMojoPin]

Take it outta my thread, Cochise.

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[GaryWyze]

why bother mucking up this thread?


<font color=purple>Muck you, mothermucker!

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Much thanks to CZM for the killer sig

[DarkHippie]

I'm gonna try to make to down to cover it and turn it into an article (if I can find a mag that'll accept a query from a fiction writer trying to cover legit stuff to actually make money)

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<marquee>"And there are times when you are walking/ and looking and seeing/ everything in a brand new light/ Like trees with three trunks wrapped around each other tight/ Like her legs 'round my body in the middle of the night" --"Colleen's Song", <a href=http://www.Osvaldooyolaortega.com>Osvaldo Oyola Ortega</a>
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[GaryWyze]

More than 300,000 Iraqi children
face death from acute malnutrition, twice as many as before U.S. and British forces invaded the country

<font color=purple>You shouldn't have any problems, it sounds like fiction to me.

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Much thanks to CZM for the killer sig

[DarkHippie]

You shouldn't have any problems, it sounds like fiction to me.
try to remember how long Basra and Baghdad was without power and water, then get back to me

<IMG SRC=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/darkhippie2.gif>
<marquee>"And there are times when you are walking/ and looking and seeing/ everything in a brand new light/ Like trees with three trunks wrapped around each other tight/ Like her legs 'round my body in the middle of the night" --"Colleen's Song", <a href=http://www.Osvaldooyolaortega.com>Osvaldo Oyola Ortega</a>
</marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

[TheMojoPin]

I can totally fly right now JUST BECAUSE I THOUGHT ABOUT IT HARD ENOUGH.

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[high fly]

I've been doing it for years....

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Death Metal Moe]

SADDAM FOR PRESIDENT AGAIN!!!!

Come back!!! Things were better with you! Sure you could take anyone of us in the night for no reason! Sure there was never a chance at a better life!

Where were all these maggots who are crawing out of this carcass while Saddam was ignoring human rights?

Mojo, if you're going to this to try to learn, then I say bravo. If you're going as some sort of protest, I'd say be careful who you associate yourself with.

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<B>DEATH FACTION 4 LIFE!!!</B>
666%

[high fly]

Mojo, look,the people on the ground look so tiny like they were ants!

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Yerdaddy]

Where were all these maggots who are crawing out of this carcass while Saddam was ignoring human rights?
Groups like this were condemning Saddam Hussein for gassing his people while your heroic Bushies were sending him weapons, $1 bil. in agricultural credits a year, and battlefield intelligence, after he gassed his own people. But if you want to feel like a crusader for human rights because your president's only rationale for war that didn't turn out to be a bald-faced lie was that the dictator was a bad guy, then knock yourself out.

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[Death Metal Moe]

your president's


He's your president too, no matter how hard you wish.

And you're right. Let's abandon the Bush's and go with whatever sqeaky clean people you support. Because I'm sure they never did anything that in retrospect was a bad idea.

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<A HREF="http://www.unhallowed.com">www.unhallowed.com</A>
<B>DEATH FACTION 4 LIFE!!!</B>
666%

[Yerdaddy]

I'm less interested in who's president than what they do in office. When they lie to me and fuck up something as important as a war, I judge them by their actions. I don't defend them because they share my political ideology.

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[Death Metal Moe]

When they lie to me and fuck up something as important as a war


Oh, I didn't know you were THAT far left as to say that Bush and his administration were all liars.

Well if they lied, do you also call Clinton who launched missles aginst Baghdad and the UN who all agreed that Iraq needed to disarm and knew about their WMD's liars? Because I'd really like to hear that too.

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This message was edited by Death_Metal Moe on 6-3-03 @ 3:24 PM

[high fly]

YERDADDY you left out that the Republicans also sent Saddam chem/bio weapons

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Yerdaddy]

Oh, I didn't know you were THAT far left as to say that Bush and his administration were all liars.
Left/right ideology has nothing to do with it. Some of the strongest criticism of the administration's manipulation of intelligence is coming from the intelligence community. The republican-led Senate Foreign Relations and Intelligence Committees are holding hearings to find the truth behind the huge gap between what the public was told and what the military inspectors are finding on the ground in Iraq now. I could give a fuck what the ideologues have to say about the situation.

Well if they lied, do you also call Clinton who launched missles aginst Baghdad and the UN who all agreed that Iraq needed to disarm and knew about their WMD's? Because I'd really like to hear that too.
Clinton was a liar. He manipulated the original inspections process in order to withdraw them and launch Desert Fox. Happy?

The UN is not a government or an administration. It's Iraq policies are the product of the 15 Security Council members, and thus it never had a unified position that can be qualified as fact or fiction. UNSCOM and UNMOVIC did their jobs well, in my opinion. They said what they knew and didn't know, as far as I can tell, independent of the political pressures of the various Sercurity Council countries. Sorry if that's too complex and doesn't fit your ideological world view.

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[Yerdaddy]

you left out that the Republicans also sent Saddam chem/bio weapons
true. And they killed the Pell Amendment in 89 that would have imposed sanctions on Saddam for gassing the Kurds.

But democrats have not exactly been champions of truth on the Iraq issue either. It's important to know that.

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This message was edited by Yerdaddy on 6-3-03 @ 4:22 PM