news flash pres bush" dad isn't gonna pay the bill!

[Hawiian shirt craig]

Dude doesn't seem to get that economic stimulus through trillions of dollars in debt never worked... EVER. remember "REGANOMICS"? well neither does he, but that trickle down crap doesn't work.

clinton had the right idea, pay as you go... raise taxes on everyone for things the poor need and can't afford on their own: ie health care, day care...

the economy sucks but bush is pulling the wool over our eyes worse than my boy scout leader did when i was little... and this time NO REACH AROUND!!!!

-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T
HAVE NICE THINGS!!

<img src=http://www.richstillwell.com/HSC.gif>

anal on the boss' couch since 1982....

[Death Metal Moe]

Tax tax tax. Beautiful.

Who are you to tell ANYONE what they should do with their money, no matter HOW much of it they have?

And the 80's were's a time of economic growth? Where the fuck were you during that time? France?

Giving the rich and poor money back to stimulate the economy and create jobs is a GOOD thing.

And please have a few FACTS or at least a few more thought out points the next time you start a political thread.

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<A HREF="http://www.unhallowed.com">www.unhallowed.com</A>
<B>DEATH FACTION 4 LIFE!!!</B>
666%

[Bergalad]

raise taxes on everyone for things the poor need and can't afford on their own

First, there already is a thread about the tax cut.

Now, about that quote. Hey, come over here for a minute...I have something to whisper to you...



Closer...




Closer...




WELCOME TO FUCKING AMERICA!!!


Unbelievable.

[phixion]

And the 80's were's a time of economic growth? Where the fuck were you during that time?


do i hafta remind u about crack? i can buy some for u so u cna keep it and think about that next time u bring up the 80's.

<IMG SRC="http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/phixion.gif">
"smoking weed, smoking weed doing coke, drinking beers
drinking beers, beers, beersrolling fatties, smoking bluntswho smokes the blunts?we smoke the blunts." -Jay

[Death Metal Moe]

So because people discovered a dangerous drug during the 80's, it cancels out every good thing done?

OK. Clinton got a BJ and lied under oath during his presidency, so I don't want to hear about his "great" term anymore from you.

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<B>DEATH FACTION 4 LIFE!!!</B>
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[Heavy]

do i hafta remind u about crack?

Dont forget AIDS

Mad props to Fluff for the sig and C.O.soup for hosting!
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138%

Yes, he is hung like a horse. One female porn star describes having sex with Johneewadd as like giving birth.

[Tazz]

Tax tax tax. Beautiful.

Who are you to tell ANYONE what they should do with their money, no matter HOW much of it they have?

And the 80's were's a time of economic growth? Where the fuck were you during that time? France?

Giving the rich and poor money back to stimulate the economy and create jobs is a GOOD thing.

And please have a few FACTS or at least a few more thought out points the next time you start a political thread.


I love Moe

<img src=http://tazz1376.homestead.com/files/homersig.gif>

[Hawiian shirt craig]

when people are a drag on the economy b/c they can't spend on anything but rent, healthcare and the like, tax tax does help.


did you drive on a road today? taxes. been to a non-private hospital? taxes. did u go to school? taxes.

i am not in a position to benifit from any of this crap, but i know that our economy works best when the lower end is nudged along by the higher end, in the form of government spending...

besides my point is that bush is digging a hole, much like his father and his dad's boss, that a democrat will mostl likely have to help fill in. he may have an MBA but he acts like hes got ADD.... thats clever, get it?

-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T
HAVE NICE THINGS!!

<img src=http://www.richstillwell.com/HSC.gif>

anal on the boss' couch since 1982....

[Yerdaddy]

What Shirt is saying is that trying to stimulate the economy through tax cuts and deficit spending didn't work in the 80's, while Clinton's ballanced budgets helped the economic boom of the 90's. I think the whole thing's a sham because people seem to like the simplistic idea that tax cuts mean that the government is getting less money so it will spend less money. But spending money has nothing to do with tax cuts. The government sets a budget and what it doesn't get in taxes it raises by borrows - increasing the deficit. It's still going to get and spend the money, it's just borrowing, with interest, rather than asking us to pay up front.

The other bonehead theory is that this injects money into the economy by giving a large chunk to the rich, who will then "create jobs" and pay salaries to average Joe. But the way it's being done, primarily by eliminating dividend taxes, will give companies incentive to pay dividends out instead of increased stock values. But stockholders, overwhelmingly, will just use that money to buy more stock shares. So money comes out of a company and goes back in, and the shareholders gain whatever percentage would have been paid in taxes. There's nothing in there that involves some incentive to build more shit, or hire more people, or do anything that does anything for the economy. If that was the point they would give tax incentives for actual investments in equipment or payroll.

Tax cuts will create 0 jobs. It shuffles money around, giving the rich a smaller percentage of the overall tax burden, and raise less money than we're spending that taxpayers will have to pay back under somebody else's administration. Probably Jenna's.

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[Def Dave in SC]

Clinton got a BJ and lied under oath during his presidency, so I don't want to hear about his "great" term anymore from you.



I understand why you would hold that against the president, but his private actions have little or nothing to do with how he ran the country.

Actually it did. By appointing an independant investigation for most of his years in office, we distracted the country, spent TONS of money, and discredited the office of the presidency.




But, Clinton was a pussy as far as his Commander in Chief duties. What do you expect from a draft dodger?

Abba Zabba, you my only friend
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Much Love to my Homies dcpete, Todd EVF, PanterA, and Tall_James

UCF:AYBABTU

[LiquidCourage]

Reaganomics was the most successful economic program ever attempted. Don't even try arguing with me though. I'm way too drunk to get into deep political debate.

[phixion]

So because people discovered a dangerous drug during the 80's, it cancels out every good thing done?


yes goddamn it. i remember new york in the 80's. i remember DC in the 80's. i remember compton in the 80's. and u know what's to blame for that? crack. period.
and y do ppl sell crack? for the quik buck? no ur wrong about that. they sell crack to make their ends meet. to able to put clothes on their childrens back, and food on teh table.
oh but see heres how teh republicans really take care of shit. the average jail time for powder cocaine found in affluent white neighborhoods is half that , for crack cocaine which is found in black and hispanic neighborhoods.

so to avoid all this jobs SHOULD b created. money shouldnt b given to teh rich in hopes of them creating jobs. y? cuz they wont, look at the 80's. this only helps teh rich get richer while the poor stay down and out.

<IMG SRC="http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/phixion.gif">
"smoking weed, smoking weed doing coke, drinking beers
drinking beers, beers, beersrolling fatties, smoking bluntswho smokes the blunts?we smoke the blunts." -Jay

[LiquidCourage]

Shut the fuck up you moron.
Almost 20 million jobs were created under Reagan.
The black middle class grew by almost 20% under him as well.

[ChrisTheCop]

bush is digging a hole...that a democrat will mostl likely have to help fill in
shudder

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[phixion]

Shut the fuck up you moron.


visit my neighborhood during the 80's then talk, ok.

<IMG SRC="http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/phixion.gif">
"smoking weed, smoking weed doing coke, drinking beers
drinking beers, beers, beersrolling fatties, smoking bluntswho smokes the blunts?we smoke the blunts." -Jay

[LiquidCourage]

Right.
Even though Reagan spent over $50 billion a year in his first term on social projects than Carter, it's all his fault that the low lives in your neighborhood destroyed their lives.

[TheMojoPin]

I'm not getting a check.

How am I being helped here exactly? I'm neither poor nor rich...do I not count?

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[HBox]

I'm not getting a check.


That's your fault. Maybe if you owned some dividend-paying stock, you lazy good for nothing!

[phixion]

it's all his fault that the low lives in your neighborhood destroyed their lives.

oh but see heres how teh republicans really take care of shit. the average jail time for powder cocaine found in affluent white neighborhoods is half that , for crack cocaine which is found in black and hispanic neighborhoods.


oh yeah i 4got we make the laws, and enforce them, and set the sentences for criminals.whoops i 4got that. my bad.

<IMG SRC="http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/phixion.gif">
"smoking weed, smoking weed doing coke, drinking beers
drinking beers, beers, beersrolling fatties, smoking bluntswho smokes the blunts?we smoke the blunts." -Jay

[LiquidCourage]

the average jail time for powder cocaine found in affluent white neighborhoods is half that , for crack cocaine which is found in black and hispanic neighborhoods.


Although I think that just about all drug laws are bullshit, I can see the difference here.
There's a huge difference between the coke and crack scene.

[HBox]

There's a huge difference between the coke and crack scene.


You're right. It like black and white.

Heh heh. You see what I did.

[high fly]

Let's not forget the 2 nasty recessions Reagan brought on with his bone-headed "voodoo economics" and the fact that things didn't get better untill he went back to tried and true Keynesian economics.
The rich benefitted greatly during Ronald Raygun's administration, while the rest of us just treaded water.
When it comes to Clinton, it's fun to see conservatives condemning bj's as an argument against his economic success.
Great logic there.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[phixion]

You're right. It like black and white.

Heh heh. You see what I did.


oh i see what u did...and i enjoyed it.

<IMG SRC="http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/phixion.gif">
"smoking weed, smoking weed doing coke, drinking beers
drinking beers, beers, beersrolling fatties, smoking bluntswho smokes the blunts?we smoke the blunts." -Jay

[Se7en]

I'm not getting a check.


But it looks like I will.

TOUGH TITTIES FOR YOU!!!!!

<img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/captainamerica.jpg" width="300" height="100">

[TheMojoPin]

But why? I don't get it...I struggle to pay my bills, I work hard, I pay my taxes, and when I can I spend money often and in great abundance...why am I, seemingly a kay component in the great American buying machine, not being "helped"?

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[HBox]

But why? I don't get it...I struggle to pay my bills, I work hard, I pay my taxes, and when I can I spend money often and in great abundance...why am I, seemingly a kay component in the great American buying machine, not being "helped"?

You are being silly. When the rich people start raking in the dough from their dividend tax cut, they'll be so thrilled they'll drive down the streets tossing bags of money out the windows. One guy has already started:
http://www.monopoly.com/images/monopoly/funstuff6.gif

You see, when the rich become richer, the poor and middle class become richer, vicariously.



EDIT: On a serious note, here's another happy little tidbit on this wonderous new dividend tax cut:The benefit bypasses workers who have been socking dividend-producing stocks into their 401(k)s, individual retirement accounts and other such programs. Distributions from these accounts will continue to be taxed as ordinary income unless the law is changed.


Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy! The one miniscule way this stupid dividend crap could have possibly helped average Americans was somehow left off. MAN! This pisses me off.

Here's the article. http://www.msnbc.com/news/917941.asp?0cv=CB20It is a good overview of the tax cut. For all the blustering by Congress about how tax law needs to be simpler, this is one of the most confusing tax cuts I have ever seen. The tax on dividends is cut this year, then goes lower in a couple of years, then disappears in 2008, and then goes back to the levels before this tax bill was passed. All the cuts basically happen this way.



This message was edited by HBox on 5-25-03 @ 2:23 AM

[LiquidCourage]

Under Reagan-

Average real family income grew by 15% from 1982 to 1989, according to US Bureau for the Census

The income of the poorest fifth Americans grew by almost 12%

Families earning more than $50,000 went from less than 25% of the population to 31%

Taxpayers were 5 times more likely to increase their income than have it fall (not counting inflation)

Families in the $10,000 to $50,000 range, experienced a higher percentage of growth in net worth than those in the top one fifth income group

The black middle class grew from 2.6 million households with incomes of $25,000 or more in 1979 to 3.9 million in 1989.

Between 1983 and 1989 the total population under the poverty line decreased by 3.8 million people, with an unprecedented number of poor entering the workforce.

Charitable donations grew from about $60 billion to almost $110 billion.

20 million jobs were created- 82% of which were in the higher skilled , higher paying occupations.

Between 1978 and 1982 the number of poor blacks rose by more than 2 million. Between 1982 and 1982 it fell by 400,000.

During the Carter years the only income group that grew was the top 1%. As opposed to many claims, during the Reagan years EVERY income bracket grew.

The share of income gains going to the top 1% was 160 times higher under Carter than Reagan.

Spending on social programs (inflation included) increased from $140 billion to $180 billion





Now you're going to say, "But LC, under Reagan the debt grew out of control!"

Well son, you can't blame Reagan for that. Even though under his plan tax revenue grew from $550 billion to over $900 billion a year, almost double the Democratically controlled Congress still spent $1.83 for every $1 that came in through taxes.



This message was edited by LiquidCourage on 5-25-03 @ 2:34 AM

[JerryTaker]

I can write a bunch of pretty numbers on a peice of paper, too. and they'd look real legitimate when 50 high powered people swear to it....

Seems to me that some of us are talking about how it <I>really</I> is, what we see with our own eyes and hear with our own ears...

And everyone else is spouting bullshit numbers that they found on some website in their parents' basements

Numbers can be, have been, and will be fudged...

Some rich asshole sipping French wine, subsidized by Bush's lax tax plans, while I work my ass off to keep up with the rent, while my small company can't afford to pay me bacause they can't compete with all the big corps that don't have to give Bush more than a few campain funds every four years!!!
THAT'S REALITY SHITHEADS!!!!

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<marquee width=300 scrollamount="5">Wet and raving, The needle keeps calling me back.. To bloody my hands forever. Carved my cure with the blade That left me in scars, Now every time I'm weak, Words scream from my arm</marquee>

[TheMojoPin]

What Jerry said. I'm not getting a check, and I really, REALLY NEED one. This indicates to me, since it's HAPPENING to me, then it's probably happening to a LOT of other people, because it's clear that people making less than me aren't getting a check, and probably any other single people in the 25k-40k range. That's a LOT of people not being "helped".

And LC, Reagan, Clinton and the Bushes all have one common goal...any of their attempts at economic control and stimulus are designed to work either ASAP or within a few years...ie-WITHIN THEIR TERMS. None of these guys planned ahead, as evidenced by the fact that our economy fluctuates wildly every five years or so and all of these much-vaunted "reforms" do DICK. I could post a page of numbers demonstrating how Clinton lowered the deficit and provided more income and jobs than any other president in at least 30 years. But it's all moot when ultimately he did NOT plan ahead, just like Bush and Reagan, and just like THIS Bush is doing now. His plans are already all going to be inactive and ineffective by 2011-2014 anyway...why not at least attempt for some kind of longterm economic stability?

Fuckin' Greenspan...DEFLATE the bubble, you bastard...deflate it...nooooo, too late...

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[HBox]

If you want this tax cuts to help you, either get rich or get babies.

[phixion]

Numbers can be, have been, and will be fudged...



classic example: the US military said it killed such an exorbitant number of vietnamese soldiers, that the numbers worked out so that every man, woman, and child in vietnam was killed. and we know that didnt happen. still have trust in numbers on paper?

<IMG SRC="http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/phixion.gif">
"smoking weed, smoking weed doing coke, drinking beers
drinking beers, beers, beersrolling fatties, smoking bluntswho smokes the blunts?we smoke the blunts." -Jay

[Yerdaddy]

LC - you need to cite your sources on stuff like this.

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[LiquidCourage]

Some rich asshole sipping French wine, subsidized by Bush's lax tax plans, while I work my ass off to keep up with the rent



What's wrong with you people?
It's like you think we live in some zero-sum world where if someone else makes money, it means that you're losing money.

[LiquidCourage]

that the numbers worked out so that every man, woman, and child in vietnam was killed.



There's 80 million people in Vietnam. As idiotic as our government is, you can be sure that they're not going around bragging about how they killed 80 million people.



LC - you need to cite your sources on stuff like this.


Uh, no.
As soon as I do:
1) People will automatically say it's bullshit. "Oh, you got them from THERE!?"
2) Nobody's going to check them anyhow.


This message was edited by LiquidCourage on 5-25-03 @ 10:26 PM

[FUNKMAN]

why the do people above the 311,000 mark get a 3.6% decrease and mostly everyone else below gets a 2% decrease...

people at the bottom practically get no decrease...

can someone please explain?



<img src="http://www.markfarner.com/2001tour/ribfest8_small.jpg">

[TheMojoPin]

There's 80 million people in Vietnam.

NOW.

The approx. population of Vietnam (Whether north or south or both, I couldn't tell) between 1954 and 1975 was around 40 million. The estimate is based on the amount of troops, assumed use of ammunition, and dropped bombs and explosives...putting that together, in theory we should have wiped out all of (North) Vietnam, and then some.

http://www.rjsmith.com/kia_tbl.html

And LC, people can doubt all they want, a sourced fact from a reputable source is just that...a fact. Let the people whine...back yourself up with the confidence to know that you're right.

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Hawiian shirt craig]

REAGANOMICS, (n), a craigism: the economic plan by which pres
regan systematicaly, with the help of a republican congress,
took away all the tax write offs middle class families had
(ie credit card interest etc etc). this freed up money for
him to establish realestate and investment tax shelters for the
rich.

this was LIQUID ASS RAPE for teh economy, shall i remind you all
of the late 80's crash? of course there are the lasting benifits of
national debt, seperation of the socioeconomic classes OH and the
general ability of people with money to subvert paying taxes, while
I, a full time student, have to pay every penny b/c i can't afford a house
boat to claim a second residence that i can write the interest off on.


any of oyu who think regan was a good president, probly think that
water gate was just a misunderstanding. the reason the economy improved
under that half retarted cum monkey, is it was on an upswing due to
falling energy costs anyway!!!!!!! same thing happened to clinton, he
just maximized its potential to amke it last. reagan simply shot one
of the largest potential growth periods in history in the foot by gang raping
the middle class!!!!!!


-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T
HAVE NICE THINGS!!

<img src=http://www.richstillwell.com/HSC.gif>

anal on the boss' couch since 1982....

[Bergalad]

this was LIQUID ASS RAPE for teh economy
As opposed to what, solid ass rape?
of course there are the lasting benifits of national debt
Oh yeah, you're right. Reagan's was the first administration to ever have a debt! Thanks for revising history for us!
seperation of the socioeconomic classes
Ah, how would you go about having unseparated classes? "Classes" is already separate, so you are blaming Reagan for separating that which by definition was already separate? Nice again.
while I, a full time student, have to pay every penny
Not to be petty, but how many pennies did you pay to learn to spell Reagan as "regan"? I am guessing less than three by the looks of it.
any of oyu who think regan was a good president, probly think that water gate was just a misunderstanding. the reason the economy improved under that half retarted cum monkey, is it was on an upswing due to
falling energy costs anyway!!!!!!!
How's that ax grinding coming along? I guess your definition of President is what Mr. Drysdale does: handle the money. Thankfully, the Constitution lays out a more accurate plan for the President, which would be more of a foreign policy than domestic policy job. I do think Reagan was a great President, primarily for his handling of the Cold War and other crisis. The President isn't solely responsible for domestic policy, such as taxes, because Congress has their hands in those issues, but he is responsible for how we meet threats from other countries. On that level, how can you argue his effectiveness?

[TheMojoPin]

Thankfully, the Constitution lays out a more accurate plan for the President, which would be more of a foreign policy than domestic policy job.

Er...really? This country was founded very much under the notion that we'd be a rather isolationist grouping of states that really had little to do with the major European powers outside of necessary trade...I'm not saying that the job hasn't "mutated" into more of a foreign policy-centric position by default, but I highly doubt that this is what is layed out in the Constitution layed out. Hell, I'm looking at my copy right now and I KNOW that's not how the office was initially designed....

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TheMojoPin]

I do think Reagan was a great President, primarily for his handling of the Cold War and other crisis.

"Other" as in...? I'm honestly curious. I don't dislike Reagan, I just really don't think he was any more special than any of the other average presidents we've had pretty much for the last 30 or so years since Nixon. I do agree that Reagan (Or more specifically, the phenomenal staff he had working for him) realized very quickly what was happening with the disintegrating (Which had NOTHING to do with Reagan being in office or anything he actually did) Soviet Union, and DID help weather the storm and avoid the chaos that such a giant politcal collapse could have caused. Reagan was a very effective foreign policy president...but on the flipside, you should be willing to admit that someone like Clinton was an incredibly effective domestic policy president. And though he's known as the "waffling" foreign policy president, Clinton too helped maintain our relations with the newly re-emerged Russia, and he and Yelstin established an incredibly strong union between our two countries that very easily could NOT have been maintained by other leaders. Each has their strengths, each has their weaknesses...Clinton couldn't hold his weight in foreign policy, but he brilliantly was able to nurture the sudden economic boom and direct our domestic policy very skillfully during most of the 90's. Reagan's economic policies really didn't work. It's not a personal attack, it's simply based on what people saw and experienced and remembered from that time. It was harder. It was rough for a lot of people that weren't in the very ivory tower-ish "white collar" world. Deal with it. That's what happened. But Reagan, far more than ANYONE else, did indeed shape America into the massive international superpower it is today, pushing it FAR beyond the relatively humbled "world cop" status of the post-Vietnam/post-Nixon era.

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 5-26-03 @ 3:38 AM

[JerryTaker]

What's wrong with you people?
It's like you think we live in some zero-sum world where if someone else makes money, it means that you're losing money.


ok, nice and slow...

Bush gives tax breaks to "Big Company, ltd."

"Big Company, ltd." then has enough money to buy out small business competition

"Big Company, ltd." then lays off 75% of smaller company's workforce (which is being generous)

multiply this by the number of small businesses that "Big Company, ltd." can afford to buy out with nice big tax cut

This is why trickle down economics doesnt work in, ahem, REALITY...

Because big companies are more interested in eliminating thier competition...
so that they can hire as few people as possible, for as little money as possible...
so they don't have to spend on quality, people will buy thier stuff if there's no competition...

so they can line thier pockets, put their money in foreign bank tax shelters, go vacation in Europe, and not help the US economy...

again... REALITY

<IMG SRC="http://afs30.njit.edu/~gsm2321/faramir.gif">

<marquee width=300 scrollamount="5">Wet and raving, The needle keeps calling me back.. To bloody my hands forever. Carved my cure with the blade That left me in scars, Now every time I'm weak, Words scream from my arm</marquee>

[Hawiian shirt craig]

Ah, how would you go about having unseparated classes? "Classes" is already separate, so you are blaming Reagan for separating that which by definition was already separate? Nice again.


the rich got richer, the poor got poorer. smart kids, help the slow kids

Not to be petty, but how many pennies did you pay to learn to spell Reagan as "regan"? I am guessing less than three by the looks of it.



please dont resort to picking on my spelling, it has been done, and i dont care. my dick is STILL bigger than yours. see how stupid we sound? OH and PS i have a degree in chemical engineering from RPI and am working on a second in mass media/broadcasting from Plattsburgh state, and i'm only 20...so eat me.

I do think Reagan was a great President, primarily for his handling of the Cold War and other crisis


yeah that Iran contra thing went real well, and good thing we invaded grenada... they were trouble. all those, you know, bannanas!



and on his overall effectiveness and responcibility? lets see, star wars was a fundementally retarted system... thats like someone buy a bullet proof vest and begging people to shoot him to try it. the man should have stayed in hollywood and died on a coke bender. he defied his fate and we all suffered....

-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T
HAVE NICE THINGS!!

<img src=http://www.richstillwell.com/HSC.gif>

anal on the boss' couch since 1982....

[TheMojoPin]

"All these damn celebrities pushing their politics on us...GO REAGAN!!!"

What th-?!?

No, this isn't a shot at anyone, I'm just always amused at how so many people who detest "celebrity politcians/activists" seem to LOVE Reagan. Odd...

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 5-26-03 @ 1:25 PM

[phixion]

No, this isn't a shot at anyone, I'm just always amused at how so many people who detest "celebrity politcians/activists" seem to LOVE Reagan.


ha ha i never noticed it before but ur rite.

<IMG SRC="http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/phixion.gif">
"smoking weed, smoking weed doing coke, drinking beers
drinking beers, beers, beersrolling fatties, smoking bluntswho smokes the blunts?we smoke the blunts." -Jay

[Bergalad]

This country was founded very much under the notion that we'd be a rather isolationist grouping of states that really had little to do with the major European powers outside of necessary trade
True, the Founding Fathers designed the Presidency to be very limited in power, and that has certainly changed significantly over time. But to my point above about the Pres being mostly concerned with foreign policy (even at the beginning), that is still true. See this http://gi.grolier.com/presidents/nbk/side/pofus.html for a nice run-down on Presidential powers, etc.
you should be willing to admit that someone like Clinton was an incredibly effective domestic policy president

I don't have a problem admitting that, but again domestic policy is not the bar by which I judge a President by.
But Reagan, far more than ANYONE else, did indeed shape America into the massive international superpower it is today, pushing it FAR beyond the relatively humbled "world cop" status of the post-Vietnam/post-Nixon era.
And that is a good thing. We are now the pre-eminent power in the world, and that is thanks completely to Reagan. For that alone he should be lauded, but is instead villified by a bitter Left who would, as Howard Dean seems to want, have America be less powerful than it is today.
please dont resort to picking on my spelling...i have a degree in chemical engineering from RPI and am working on a second in mass media/broadcasting...
Thanks for the warning. Remind me not to waste money at either RPI or Plattsburg.
yeah that Iran contra thing went real well, and good thing we invaded grenada... they were trouble. all those, you know, bannanas!
Iran-Contra had a specific job, and although it was technically illegal, it was a fairly interesting idea. Grenada http://www.historyguy.com/Grenada.html
was designed to prevent the spread of Communism in Central and South America, which it did quite effectively. You can ridicule that action all you like, but it worked.
star wars was a fundementally retarted system... thats like someone buy a bullet proof vest and begging people to shoot him to try it.
Hmm. So that's why they are fielding the system by 2005? That's why Japan, England, and Russia to name a few are so eager to hop on board with the US to deploy the system? Great analogy btw. So then by your reasoning, if you put an alarm on your car, you are just ASKING for a burglar to break into it? Genius I say!
he defied his fate and we all suffered....

Damn our complete and total dominance of the world! Damn you Reagan!

[phixion]

Damn our complete and total dominance of the world!


and this is good? this is what u want? i can tell u have no idea about any other culture but american. and world domination....? even hitler only wanted continental europe. im sorry i dont see how one country ruling over others is any different than what england did to us in 1776.

and bergalad stop complaining about craig's spelling damnit. this board is for entertianment purposes only. so stop bitching about it. im guessing craigs like me, in that, he'll spell correctly when it counts. so we'll spell correctly when this board is a class that we get credit for.

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"smoking weed, smoking weed doing coke, drinking beers
drinking beers, beers, beersrolling fatties, smoking bluntswho smokes the blunts?we smoke the blunts." -Jay

[HBox]

I don't have a problem admitting that, but again domestic policy is not the bar by which I judge a President by.


What does that mean? The state of the country is not how you judge a President?

And that is a good thing. We are now the pre-eminent power in the world, and that is thanks completely to Reagan. For that alone he should be lauded, but is instead villified by a bitter Left who would, as Howard Dean seems to want, have America be less powerful than it is today.


What Dean said is that we will not always be the most powerful nation on Earth. If you don't believe that is true, you desperately need a history lesson.

And it is not thanks to Reagan. We have been the most powerful nation on Earth since WW2. We are the only superpower thanks to the fall of the USSR, which Reagan had little to nothing to do with. I would argue the President most responsible for the U.S. being where it is today is FDR.

Grenada Visit this Website
was designed to prevent the spread of Communism in Central and South America, which it did quite effectively.


Did you type that with a straight face?

This message was edited by HBox on 5-26-03 @ 3:31 PM

[Yerdaddy]

Uh, no.
As soon as I do:
1) People will automatically say it's bullshit. "Oh, you got them from THERE!?"
2) Nobody's going to check them anyhow.
It's bullshit.

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CZM productions

FREE YERBOOBIES!

[Bergalad]

and this is good?
What, not being subservient to anyone else? Being the biggest kid on the block? Yup, it's great. Don't like it? Go to Belgium.
i can tell u have no idea about any other culture but american.
Can you now? I lived in Europe for 3 years, you ever been out of the US?
even hitler only wanted continental europe.
Wahhaat? You go to RPI too?
and bergalad stop complaining about craig's spelling damnit.
I'm teasing, not complaining.
im guessing craigs like me, in that, he'll spell correctly when it counts.
Good for you then! I applaud your desire to attempt to make logical arguments while spelling like a retard. Bravo!
What does that mean? The state of the country is not how you judge a President?

Of course I add into that how he handles domestic events, but I mostly judge the President through his foreign policy, which is his primary purpose.
What Dean said is that we will not always be the most powerful nation on Earth. If you don't believe that is true, you desperately need a history lesson.
By accepting this "fact" of yours, you are almost willing it to happen. If you are resigned to something, then it will occur. I am of the opinion that we should always strive to remain pre-eminent in the world, and if I (and others like me) work for that end, then it could very well stay that way. I don't like Dean's (or yours apparently) defeatest attitude.
We are the only superpower thanks to the fall of the USSR, which Reagan had little to nothing to do with. I would argue the President most responsible for the U.S. being where it is today is FDR.
Feel free to argue that, but I will maintain Reagan did much more than you give him credit for.
Did you type that with a straight face?

Yes, I did. I didn't say Grenada was a key event in history, I said it accomplished specific goals that were effective.

[HBox]

Feel free to argue that, but I will maintain Reagan did much more than you give him credit for.


There is no question Reagan helped build up the military a lot. We are the most powerful nation in the world for many more reasons than just military. And I'd argue that Reagan didn't help much in any other area.

By accepting this "fact" of yours, you are almost willing it to happen. If you are resigned to something, then it will occur. I am of the opinion that we should always strive to remain pre-eminent in the world, and if I (and others like me) work for that end, then it could very well stay that way. I don't like Dean's (or yours apparently) defeatest attitude.


Defeatist attitude? Would having a rival that is comparable to us be defeat? The idea is that we can't be muscling the world around, because one day it will come to bite us in the ass. Again, see history. Rome, Alexander the Great, the British Empire just to name a few. It isn't an attitude, it is just an historical fact.

[Bergalad]

It isn't an attitude, it is just an historical fact.
Historical fact it may be, but shouldn't we as Americans do whatever we can morally and legally to maintain our present state? Shouldn't we try to ensure history doesn't repeat itself to our loss?

[Death Metal Moe]

"Fuck y'all. All y'all. My pimp hand is strong!"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1750000/images/_1754211_bush_150.jpg

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[A.J.]

and raise less money than we're spending that taxpayers will have to pay back under somebody else's administration. Probably Jenna's.

That would be our sexiest administration.

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A Skidmark production.

[silera]

Of course I add into that how he handles domestic events, but I mostly judge the President through his foreign policy, which is his primary purpose.

This is probably why I disagree with almost everything you post.

The first concern of the United States government should be its citizens.

Our foreign policy is a complete fucking failure and this administration is doing a bang up job of quite possibly gaining a place in history as the most inept domestic policy maker in all our history.


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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=FBF2F7>

[JerryTaker]

"Fuck y'all. All y'all. My pimp hand is strong!"


-Moe finally realizes how Bush feels about the working middle class...


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[phixion]

The first concern of the United States government should be its citizens.


i agree with u silera id just like to add, that they should b concerned with all their citizens, not just the richest 1%.

<IMG SRC="http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/phixion.gif">
"smoking weed, smoking weed doing coke, drinking beers
drinking beers, beers, beersrolling fatties, smoking bluntswho smokes the blunts?we smoke the blunts." -Jay

[TheMojoPin]

That would be our sexiest administration.

"DRUNK GIRL PRESIDENT!"

"You don't KNOW me..."

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[Bergalad]

This is probably why I disagree with almost everything you post.
You actually agreed with me before? Nice.

The first concern of the United States government should be its citizens.
I would submit that is exactly what Bush's priority is. He has a different way of going about it than say, Clinton, but to say he doesn't care about people is silly. Why push for $15 billion in AIDS research and training then?

Our foreign policy is a complete fucking failure and this administration is doing a bang up job of quite possibly gaining a place in history as the most inept domestic policy maker in all our history.
So what exactly has Bush done that makes his domestic policy so infamous? It could be better yes, but it's not complete failure yet. I agree that more needs to be done here in the US, and maybe once all the external issues calm down Bush can focus on them properly. To say foreign policy is a failure is incorrect I think. Look at what's been accomplished: Taliban gone, Saddam gone, global emphasis on fighting terrorism, Israel and Palestine making historic strides. How is this a failure?

[TheMojoPin]

He has a different way of going about it than say, Clinton, but to say he doesn't care about people is silly. Why push for $15 billion in AIDS research and training then?

Uhm, bad example. This new push is directed at Africa. It's a fantastic move and a great foreign policy action, but really has dick all to do with "his" people.

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[HBox]

It could be better yes, but it's not complete failure yet.


This won't be judged until the end of Bush's term, but things don't look good. The economy is in the tank, there are no jobs, the dollar is worth crap, more and more people are not covered by health insurance, and the states are going bankrupt. You can't blame this all on Bush, but what has he done to help? people who think his tax cut will make a difference are few and far between. And what happened with his other tax cut, the huge, huge one he passed as one of his first actions as President. Wasn't that supposed to help? It didn't, things got worse, and now he wants more? And he already waged an 80 billion dollar war, has to pay for the occupation of Iraq for the forseeable future, and now may be forced to act against Iran and North Korea because of nuclear weapons. Those wars won't cost 80 billion dollars.

[Bergalad]

This new push is directed at Africa.

Yes yes, I know. I was referring to "people" in general. As soon as I find something he's done for Americans, I'll use that as an example. Kidding of course, but I do think Bush's focus has been external rather than internal, and I would like to see those equal out more.
And what happened with his other tax cut, the huge, huge one he passed as one of his first actions as President. Wasn't that supposed to help? It didn't, things got worse, and now he wants more?
I don't think Bush can be judged as right or wrong on the first tax cut. We'll never know if it would have worked or not because 911 threw the entire economy into the shitter. The cuts didn't help that situation, but nothing would have. I don't hold him responsible for that. If Bush doesn't do anything soon to begin repairing the economy though, I will be yelling right along with you.

[Hawiian shirt craig]

quick summary of my post:

dear mr bush...
ur dad didnt get reelected b/c of his predisesor, by running up the
national debt, screwed the economy. please dont start programs
that hurt the economy and stop those which help it, ur oinly proveing
why blow jobs work better than pretzels. simply put, its not your money
to spend on your freinds, its our money to spend on ourselves!

ps. i'm better than everyone else.


-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T
HAVE NICE THINGS!!

<img src=http://www.richstillwell.com/HSC.gif>

anal on the boss' couch since 1982....

[phixion]

proveing
why blow jobs work better than pretzels.


lol yea think about this ppl....we are following a president who sniffed yayo and choked on a pretzel...i think he needs to move back into the frat. why o why wont u run gore?

<IMG SRC="http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/phixion.gif">
"smoking weed, smoking weed doing coke, drinking beers
drinking beers, beers, beersrolling fatties, smoking bluntswho smokes the blunts?we smoke the blunts." -Jay

[FUNKMAN]

why the do people above the 311,000 mark get a 3.6% decrease and mostly everyone else below gets a 2% decrease...

people at the bottom practically get no decrease...

can someone please explain?



hey,

this guy just posed a sensible question, why is nobody answering?

<img src="http://www.markfarner.com/2001tour/ribfest8_small.jpg">

[TheMojoPin]

Yeah, because apparently I'm in that "bottom". NO GOOD.

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Recyclerz]

Yeah, because apparently I'm in that "bottom".

HA ha. Mojo's a bottom.


Funkman,

The purpose of the tax cut is to reduce the progressivity of the federal income tax system. Since the high income people pay at higher marginal rates for wages than us working class stiffs they get the most benefit under Bush's plan.



[b]You're only young once but you can be immature forever[b]

[FUNKMAN]

Funkman,

The purpose of the tax cut is to reduce the progressivity of the federal income tax system. Since the high income people pay at higher marginal rates for wages than us working class stiffs they get the most benefit under Bush's plan.



thanks Recyclerz,

in my mind the 3.6% cut for the upper crust will have to be made up somewhere and most likely by the middle and lower crust... so in reality the middle and lower crust are getting squazole...

they state Lotteries will probably put out a few more Rub-Off games with a pretty picture on the front and the one in a billion chance of hitting on the inside...

<img src="http://www.markfarner.com/2001tour/ribfest8_small.jpg">

[Hawiian shirt craig]

Thomas Jefferson said we should have an armed revolution about once a generation, pretty much every time the gov't pisses us off, who's with me???

-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T
HAVE NICE THINGS!!

<img src=http://www.richstillwell.com/HSC.gif>

anal on the boss' couch since 1982....

[JerryTaker]

Yes yes, I know. I was referring to "people" in general. As soon as I find something he's done for Americans, I'll use that as an example.


"I'm a huge fan of your music; well, not <I>you</I> specifically, but of the whole <I>genre</I>...."



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<marquee width=300 scrollamount="5">Wet and raving, The needle keeps calling me back.. To bloody my hands forever. Carved my cure with the blade That left me in scars, Now every time I'm weak, Words scream from my arm</marquee>