What's with punishing people for their politics?

[TheMojoPin]

So now the big issue on the news talk shows is to whether or not "we need to punish those that spoke against the war". Of course, the focus is usually on celebrities...

But the part that confuses me is the extraordinary leaps and bounds that people go to to make those on the "other side" pay. Don't like a celebrity's politics? Boycott whatever the hell they're selling...I fully understand that. But what I don't get is how people sometimes jump to the NEXT level and essentially try to keep these people from working, period. Or keeping them away from public events just because of their politics. Like Tim Robbins being uninvited from the celebration of "Bull Durham". Or like people trying to have Janeane Garafalo's TV show pulled off the air even before it's aired. And don't think I'm only blaming conservatives...I was just as pissed off at the lefties who wanted Dr. Laura pulled off the air entirely for her opinions on gay people. It's one thing to not listen to her...but why try and actually pull her off the air?

It's one thing to boycot someone's product because you disagree with them...that makes perfect sense...but why is it necessary to jump to the mentality that you need to "punish" someone because of their politics, so much to the length you want to essentially rob them of their job? It's the equivalent of getting, say, a cop or bank teller or waiter fired simply because you disagree with their politics. What the eff?

**EDIT** Yes, obviously most of these celebs have plenty of money, so that's not the issue. I'm not saying they'll starve or anything. But the issue still stands that some people are so opposed to differing politics that they'll go out of their way to keep another person from working. And it's weird.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 4-25-03 @ 7:33 PM

[LiquidCourage]

I could understand being pissed off and maybe boycotting some of these extremists, but some of these people are getting out of hand.

Soon these people won't be able to see a single movie or listen to any music.

They need to stop taking some of this so seriously.

I can't believe how pissed off some of these people are at the Dixie Chicks.

[silera]

Well they must learn not to think that way or else the terrorists have won.


<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif

<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=FBF2F7>

[Doomstone]

if it smells like McCarthyism...

[canofsoup15]

Me and my family were talking about celebrities at easter and we came to this conclusion: Celebrities get paid to much fucking money and shouldnt be as popular as they are. Look at them, they say some lines in some movies, and get millions upon millions of dollars for it, they dont deserve that, fuck i could read a script for money no problem. And what with the publicity they get, its fucking high School in the real world and thems the popular kids. Why are they characterized as being so high and mighty, if you really got to know them youd think most of them were arrogant assfucks. I think stunt men should get paid way more than actors do, they're putting their lifes on the line so ben affleck can keep his pretty face in the next scene. If some John Smith nobody said what the Dixie chicks said noone would give two flying fucks theyd disagree and move on, but because they're on stage and have a contract, OH NO, lets boycott there music. Its...crap.

P.S. The Dixie Chicks SUCKASS!

<img src=http://publish.hometown.aol.com/canofsoup15/images/final.gif>

Shit, if it's going to be that kind of a party
I'm gonna stick my dick in the mashed potatoes

[LiquidCourage]

People can pick whose albums they want to buy.
That's not McCarthyism.

Some people do get a little caught up in all of this though.

[LiquidCourage]

I don't understand at all why people are going so nuts about the Dixie Chicks.

This is getting bigger than when John Lennon said the whole "We're bigger than Jesus" thing.

[Doomstone]

Exactly. Boycotts are fine, denying someone the right to make a living based on their political views is McCarthyism. Glad we agree.

[shamus mcfitzy]

this country fought against Socialism for roughly 80 years before the Soviet Union finally fell. Did you think it would stop there? I definitely don't think any of this is right, but this country doesn't have as much political freedoms as everyone gives us credit for.

[Rorschach]

many of these lazy spoiled fat + wealthy liberals should be branded exactly what they are - enemies of the state. they used to tar and feather creeps like these once upon a time

[silera]

Why stop there?

Let's cut out their tongues.

That'll learn 'em!!!


<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif

<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=FBF2F7>

[TheMojoPin]

many of these lazy spoiled fat + wealthy liberals should be branded exactly what they are

You're right. It's not like most Republican/conservative pundits aren't wealthy or very well off. How silly of me. Poor Anne Coulter must be in the poor house...and Hannity's on the street! Lordy, NO!

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TheMojoPin]

And AGAIN, I very clearly stated there is a HUGE difference between boycotting someone's product and then actively seeking to prevent them from ever working again in their chosen field. Realize this. The issue isn't who or what should be boycotted, but instead tracing the origin of this nouveau-McCarthy notion of "blacklisting" people to hinder and prevent them from working down the line. If you can't tell the difference, kindly fuck off and save us the trouble.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[HBox]

When will you people learn. DEMOCRACY DOESN'T WORK!

[Shecky]

Or like people trying to have Janeane Garafalo's TV show pulled off the air even before it's aired

That's what I call a Premptive strike.

I was just as pissed off at the lefties who wanted Dr. Laura pulled off the air entirely for her opinions on gay people.

Left handed people wanted Dr Laura off the air?
I thought it was Fag Democrats that wanted her off the air. And by saying this I don't mean that all Democrats are gay.

PRAY FOR THE TROOPS!!!!

Later On,
SHECKY

[El Mudo]

What's with punishing people for their politics?


Because if you put yourself and your politcal beliefs out there as an individual in the public eye, then you open yourself to criticism. If you have the right to sound off on what you believe in, then we as well should have the right to call you a dope

http://members.cox.net/crandall11/dc/senators/Casanova.Paul.2.jpg

[TheMojoPin]

Because if you put yourself and your politcal beliefs out there as an individual in the public eye, then you open yourself to criticism. If you have the right to sound off on what you believe in, then we as well should have the right to call you a dope

Come on. Read the thread. AGAIN, there's nothing wrong with criticizing or boycotting someone...but when did it become to kosher to go out of one's way to prevent someone else from working in their chosen field because of their politics?

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TooCute]

<img src="http://www.barbsbooks.com/EMC-00637.gif" width=300>

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
!! 2% !!<font color=FBF2F7>

[TheMojoPin]

<img src=http://www.mindplay.com/images/mrc.jpg>

And REMEMBER...liberals do it just as often...so many of them claim to always be fighting for free speech and expression, but then they're just as quick to want to squelch someone else who's saying something that they disagree with or offends them.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 4-25-03 @ 11:34 PM

[schmega]

i'd never go so far as to deny a dumb actor his/her right to make a living, but i dont mind seeing them suffer either.

i dont know the details of the dr. laura anti-gay thing, but if in fact she's making life tough for gays, she ought to be taken off the air. i say this mostly because one of our favorite radio hosts is gay.

[Se7en]

And REMEMBER...liberals do it just as often...so many of them claim to always be fighting for free speech and expression, but then they're just as quick to want to squelch someone else who's saying something that they disagree with or offends them.

At least you're moderate enough to come out and say this.

Fair and balanced reporting from Mojo!

As far as celebrities go......I think it has a little to do with the fact that we pay for these people to entertain us......not express their political views to us. Some people just get more enraged than others. I find it understandable. The day I care about what a fucking country music singer thinks about politics is the day I stick the gun in my mouth.

Speaking of the Dixie Chicks, who here doesn't think these bitches are milking this thing for all its worth? Madonna wishes she could get this kind of pub for her all of her criticisms of America.

<img border="0" src="http://Se7enRFNet.homestead.com/files/se7en.jpg" width="300" height="100">

I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.

"I was here before the oceans turned black with life, and when the deserts are white with death I will remain."
---Saint Iago

[TheMojoPin]

As far as celebrities go......I think it has a little to do with the fact that we pay for these people to entertain us......not express their political views to us.

But along that train of thought, it shouldn't be "the public's" goal to punish them for their politics...that's not what they're there for. We don't pay ANYONE for their political views, except by buying the merchandise of "superstar" pundits (Who, ironically enough, are celebrities because ALL they do is tell us THEIR politics), or technically by paying taxes that in the end fund our politicians' salaries. By this thinking, we should "punish" anyone who offers up an opposing political view. People have opinions. It's the nature of this country. If someone famous does it, boycott their product. Organize a large boycott. Go nuts. But ultimately there is never any justification for actively attacking someone's ability to do their job (Even celebrities...hey, you said that's what they actually get paid for) down the line, unless their politcal actions are obviously damaging, destructive and dangerous. People say, "oh, it's just celebrities," but similar waves of "blacklisting" in the past ended up targeting thousands of "normal" people and drove many of them to ruin...

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[FiveB247]

When will you people learn. DEMOCRACY DOESN'T WORK!

Riighhhttt...So what does what? hmmm?

The day I care about what a fucking country music singer thinks about politics is the day I stick the gun in my mouth.

I wait and hope for that day...hahaha

[travis151]

Why is it that a celebrity is allowed to say what ever they feel but when you oppose what they say they whine how it unfair it only free speech. Its a two way street if you want to say something be prepared to defend what and why you are saying it. It funny how Tim Robbins is so upset that he wasn't invited to the Baseball Hall of Fame saying it not right to be banned for what he says. But on the other hand he refuses to go on certain talk shows because he doesn't like what the talk show represents( Howard Stern, Bill O'Reilly) . Sounds like he only wants to ride on his side of the street. Why was it alright to protest The Dr. Laura talk radio show and pull sponsers because she had remarks about Gays, but when the Dixie Chicks yell out a negitive remark about Our president for a cheap pop in another country its wrong to protest them. I personally don't care what a celebrity thinks who cares. I don't have the right to tell you not to buy or watch their products though. Rememer celebrities have a huge forum to speak from they just have to be prepared why they said certain things you can't just yell out "BUSH for OIL" and not expect to answer why do you say Bush for Oil back it up. What goes around comes around.

Red Sox=More Better

[The Chairman]

I agree Mojo. Why punish anyone for expressing their First Amendment protected speech and deny them their right to make money..... or walk, stroll or loaf for that matter?

Personally, I prefer hearing Eddie Vedder sing and not pontificate about politics. If Tim Robbins made movies I wanted to see or Madonna, Barbra Streisand or The Dixie Chicks made music I wanted to hear then maybe I'd feel guilty about lining their pockets.

What bothers me most, however, is not some ridiculous star spewing about how we should think about the war, but people who have real power manipulating the facts when reporting events. Objective information would allow each of us to formulate better opinions based upon facts and not obfuscated information regurgitated by right wing jingoists or liberal propagandists.

With the obvious exception of Fox and Rupert Murdoch, who looks more and more like Charles Foster Kane these days, I don't believe that a well-orchestrated and vast left-wing conspiracy controls America's newsrooms. Instead, the liberal slant is created due to a preponderance of like minded liberal journalists seeing the world in a very un-diverse (liberal) way. This unfortunately produces a collective groupthink that influences how they cover news. So along with Fox we get mostly war haters and Bush-o-phobes.

It is just as sad that around the water coolers these days people are vociferously spewing forth sensationalistic bombast from Fox and the New York Post ("We Won The War!") as it is that others value the opinions of megalomaniacal self professed avatars of political acumen like Janeane Garofalo or Michael Moore.

cK1

<img src = http://atamichimpo.50megs.com/images/kagastinksig.jpg>
2%

Loved or hated...but never ignored.


slanted and enchanted...
a skidmark production sig!

[HBox]

Riighhhttt...So what does what? hmmm?


That was a Simpsons reference. I was being silly willy.

[TheMojoPin]

I just think many of the posts here simply demonstrate how clouded people are on the issue...they simply can't seperate the person from the poitics...I don't give a damn what they were protesting or supporting, whether I agree with it or not...and again, who gives a damn if someone chooses to boycott a "product" of someone who's politics you disagree with? Them's the breaks of having a free society...I simply feel that actively seeking to prevent someone from working in their chosen field, PERIOD, is wrong. It's overkill, it's petty and downright awful. If someone protests or supports a political view different from yours, it's your perogative to disagree or ignore or boycott that person. But unless that person went out opf THEIR way to affect your way of life, job or income, what right is it of you to turn around and do the very same to someone for simply speaking their mind? If you can't clearly see the difference between a boycott and purposely preventing someone from working ever again, you REALLY need to wipe off those glasses.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Bergalad]

I agree that this is an overblown issue, for both sides. We shouldn't condemn the DC's because they are uninformed morons. Yet they should be slammed for doing it overseas. Would they have the nuts to make the same statement at a concert in Texas? Other than that, people should give these celebrities a break. Why anyone would put so much stock into what one of them says is rediculous. The ones we do need to hold responsible for their politics are those who are in politics, like that ass Dean. He might be the Democratic contender for the Presidency in 2004 and he thinks Iraq would be better off with Saddam in charge?! This is who should be punished, not disconnected celebrities who can't affect a damn thing in US policy.

[TooCute]

This is who should be punished,

Punished because you don't agree with him?
Or ignored because you don't agree with him?


I mean, isn't being stupid punishment enough?

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
!! 2% !!<font color=FBF2F7>

[canofsoup15]

I mean, isn't being stupid punishment enough?


Im extremely stupid...i dont feel punished...just stupid.

<img src=http://publish.hometown.aol.com/canofsoup15/images/final.gif>

Shit, if it's going to be that kind of a party
I'm gonna stick my dick in the mashed potatoes

[Arienette]

It funny how Tim Robbins is so upset that he wasn't invited to the Baseball Hall of Fame saying it not right to be banned for what he says. But on the other hand he refuses to go on certain talk shows because he doesn't like what the talk show represents( Howard Stern, Bill O'Reilly) let me get this straight... you're saying that it's the same to be banned from something based solely on your political opinions and to make the decision not to do something that makes you uncomfortable because you disagree with what that thing represents? hopefully, i'm missing something...

i couldnt care any less about tim robbins or his political beliefs. but he has the right to say what he thinks, even if it's an unpopular opinion. you know, the first amendment and all that noise. further, he has the right not to be punished for saying these things - that pesky constitution again. there's a world of difference between that and his choosing not to go on a talk show for whatever reason. howard stern and bill o'reilly do not have the right to have tim robbins on their shows, and tim robbins does have the right to decide whether or not to go on them. and, in turn, if howard stern wants to go on air and say that tim robbins is a pussy for not coming on the show or whatnot, he's got the right to do that.

it's amazing how clouded people's judgments can become when it comes to these things. why is it so hard to just let people express themselves? don't go to a tim robbins movie if you don't like him, that's fine. like mojo (and others after him) said, there's a big difference between boycotting and not letting someone do whatever it is that they do.

<center><img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/arisubway.gif" height=100 width=300</img>

we hope your rules and wisdom choke you</center>

[Yerdaddy]

I'm confused. Is "political correctness" a good thing now?

FREE YERBOOBIES!

[Gvac]

I don't think Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon were being "punished" for their views, I just think the Baseball Hall of Fame didn't want the event to be turned into a platform for their political views. It's perfectly understandable and in no way is keeping them from work.

http://gvac.50megs.com/images/militarysalute.jpg

[Cybersoldier]

What do you expect we live in a country where there are show based on celebraties, extra, access hollywood,etc. and when politics comes into play no one cares. but more than likely there are a few who do, and when the celebs are in the minority in any political topic they are consider un-american. The point of freedom of speech is to say what is on your mind whether the majority agrees with the opinions or not. Does not everyone remember the McCathry era when people thought to to communist where blackballed and they were unable to work or products - movies,etc, boycotted because of their political views or associations. It seems that is occurring around and you would think we would have learned something after the McCathry hearings, I guess not because it seems some of the same things are occurring once again, one good explain the dixie chicks. Radio stations are banning them of the political comments.

<IMG SRC="http://cybersoldier.iwarp.com/images/cybersoldier.gif">
thank czn
SAVE RON AND FEZ
WRITE YOUR LETTER TO SUPPORT RON AND FEZ TODAY!!!!!!! let try to get them on K-rock
Mel Karmazin
President and Chief Operating Officer C/O Viacom 1515 Broadway
New York, NY 10036
(212) 258-6000

[shamus mcfitzy]

Speaking of the Dixie Chicks, who here doesn't think these bitches are milking this thing for all its worth? Madonna wishes she could get this kind of pub for her all of her criticisms of America.


well the fact that they made remarks that went against the Republican president, and their a country music group, i don't see how this is positive. Sure maybe it seems like they're getting sympathy from the liberal masses of LA and NY, but ultimately it's the Southern part of the country that they pissed off that will be at least 50% of the people buying their record. Madonna will always have gays and women who will buy her record, but the Dixie Chicks need people to forgive them.

The ones we do need to hold responsible for their politics are those who are in politics, like that ass Dean. He might be the Democratic contender for the Presidency in 2004 and he thinks Iraq would be better off with Saddam in charge?! This is who should be punished, not disconnected celebrities who can't affect a damn thing in US policy.


So we shouldn't punish celebrities for their politics (something i agree with), but we should punish POLITICIANS for their politics? OK........

This message was edited by shamus mcfitzy on 4-26-03 @ 9:04 PM

[hillburt_spaess]

The whole mele‚ with the dixie chicks proves only one thing:

Rednecks DO eat thier young.

(too drunk to respond further)

<p align="center"><img src="http://www.radiogenix.com/elem/signatures/sig_hs_001.jpg" width="299" height="140" border="0"></p>

- spaess out

[hillburt_spaess]

I love Tim Robbins. Jacob's Ladder is one of the five best psycho-thrillers ever.

His politics are naive.

Frankly, I think the guilt of securing the financial future of his children and theirs has gotten to him, and celebrities who attempt to counter the hollywood stereotype of an overpampered, red M&Ms only! attitude with uncompromising leftist politics makes my ass twitch - but he's just a stupid actor, so I try and keep things in perspective.
<map name="sig_map">
<area alt="visit radiogenix.com" coords="12,12,229,38" href="http://www.radiogenix.com">
<area alt="What the f*ck is radiogenix?" coords="296,13,304,24" href="http://www.radiogenix.com/about.php">
<area alt="Visit the website, ya freek" coords="296,25,306,36" href="http://www.radiogenix.com">
<area alt="email the landlord" coords="296,37,305,48" href="mailto:admin@radiogenix.com">
</map>
<img src="http://www.radiogenix.com/elem/signatures/sig004.gif" width="320" height="60" border="0" usemap="#sig_map">

(McCauly Culkin gets hit by a big truck. It's a great film.)

< meta http-equiv="Bull-Sheet" content="Smegma_on_a_Kaiser" >

- spaess out



This message was edited by hillburt_spaess on 4-26-03 @ 9:48 PM

[Shecky]

"Freedom is a 2 way street"

G.W. Bush

<http://members.aol.com/anttrisano/myhomepage/willtherealsaddampleasestandup.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US>

PRAY FOR THE TROOPS!!!!

Later On,
SHECKY

[Shecky]

<http://members.aol.com/anttrisano/myhomepage/willtherealsaddampleasestandup.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US>

<http://members.aol.com/anttrisano/myhomepage/willtherealsaddampleasestandup.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US>

PRAY FOR THE TROOPS!!!!

Later On,
SHECKY

[Shecky]

<http://members.aol.com/anttrisano/myhomepage/willtherealsaddampleasestandup.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US>

<http://members.aol.com/anttrisano/myhomepage/willtherealsaddampleasestandup.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US>

PRAY FOR THE TROOPS!!!!

Later On,
SHECKY

[Shecky]

sorry bout that

<http://members.aol.com/anttrisano/myhomepage/willtherealsaddampleasestandup.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US>

PRAY FOR THE TROOPS!!!!

Later On,
SHECKY

[hillburt_spaess]

"Subliminable messages? Nah, we ain't sendin' no Subliminable messages."

-- G.W. Bush

[sic] of the administration,

<p align="center"><img src="http://www.radiogenix.com/elem/signatures/sig_hs_001.jpg" width="299" height="140" border="0"></p>

"Juseppe Madre, Sr. Honkey."




- spaess out

[HBox]

Freedom is a dish best served cold. No wait.

You can't have freedom without breaking some eggs. No wait.

One bad freedom spoils the bunch. No wait.

You can't see the freedom from the trees. No wait.

The left freedom doesn't know what the right one is doing. No wait.

[travis151]

Arientte, The baseball hall of fame banning Tim Robbins for his political views is the same as Tim Robbins boycotting certain shows because of their politcal views is the same thing. Just as Tim Robbins has the right to say what ever he wants is free speech just as a citizen refusing to buy one of his movies , that pesky constitution thing. How can you say he say what ever but I can't do what I want? Even though I think hes a great actor and I will continue to watch his movies.

Red Sox=More Better

This message was edited by travis151 on 4-27-03 @ 10:26 AM

[Se7en]

Five: You won't get rid of me that easy.

I am IMMORTAL.

There can be only one.

I agree Mojo. Why punish anyone for expressing their First Amendment protected speech and deny them their right to make money..... or walk, stroll or loaf for that matter?

But here's the thing - technically, even a boycott is "punishing" someone for their political beliefs.

So where do we draw the line?

I mean, I'm not doing anything to actively destroy the Dixie Chicks' career.....but at the same time, I'm not crying if that's the end result of this mess.

<img border="0" src="http://Se7enRFNet.homestead.com/files/se7en.jpg" width="300" height="100">

I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.

"I was here before the oceans turned black with life, and when the deserts are white with death I will remain."
---Saint Iago

[HBox]

So where do we draw the line?


I think there is a difference. If you decide personally to boycott something, that's fine. If you encourage others to boycott, I think that's fine also. I think the problem comes along with an example like with Dr. Laura's show. Gay groups lobbied the networks before the show even aired to have the show off the air. In many markets they succeeded in having the show unaired, and in others the show was given horrible time slots. The show was denied a chance to succeed. And whatever potential audience she had was denied a chance to judge for themselves. I think that's wrong, no matter how much of a twat Dr. Laura is.

[TheMojoPin]

I just think the Baseball Hall of Fame didn't want the event to be turned into a platform for their political views. It's perfectly understandable and in no way is keeping them from work.

That's hardly the main point here, or even a large one. And Robbins has even said that he had no intentions of turning the place into a debate, and if the organizer had just called and asked him to not turn the event into a political matter, he would have happily complied.

And just to tack on an added point...if a society derives so much entertainment out of every minute aspect of its celebrities' lives, why is it so shocked/suprised/horrified when they actually try and say something halfway intelligent (Whether you agree or not isn't the point)? I mean, we seemingly can't get enough of who they're fighting with/fucking/killing/making films with/dating/whatever, but bring up politics, and all of a sudden we act like they're imposing on OUR lives...weird...

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 4-27-03 @ 12:51 AM

[Yerdaddy]

I just think the Baseball Hall of Fame didn't want the event to be turned into a platform for their political views. It's perfectly understandable and in no way is keeping them from work.
They might flash a peace sign outside the theater and not say dick about the war onstage?

FREE YERBOOBIES!

[Death Metal Moe]

A bucket of AIDS for any celebrity that thinks I give half a fucking shit what they think.

Entertain me assfuck and then shut your mouth.

<IMG SRC="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=njdmmoe">
<A HREF="http://www.unhallowed.com">www.unhallowed.com</A>
<font size=2 color=333366>
<marquee behavior=alternate scrolldelay=30>DEATH FACTION 4 LIFE!!!</marquee>
</font>

666%

[Bergalad]

So we shouldn't punish celebrities for their politics (something i agree with), but we should punish POLITICIANS for their politics? OK........
"Punished" when used in the same vein as with the DC's. The punishment being levied against them is depriving them of their livelihood, and in that sense the same should happen for politicians. These are the guys (and gals) who can actually affect US policy and our lives, so "punishing" them by getting them out of politics (meaning not electing) is desirable.

[El Mudo]

but when did it become to kosher to go out of one's way to prevent someone else from working in their chosen field because of their politics?



Who exactly is being punished? I don't see any supposed "blacklist" of celebrities. I don't see them not working. I don't see them being herded into camps like the Japanese in WWII and being beaten up in the streets for expressing political beliefs like German-Americans and Socialists during WWI. I hate it when people, especially celebrities, take themselves too seriously, ie Madonna, whose political beliefs are still outweighed by her need to sell records

Why do we even care what celebrities think?

http://www.oldbaseball.com/hom/zoilo_versalles3.jpg

[TheMojoPin]

It's not about whether you care or not what they think. I don't.

I was just bothered by the fact that there's a rather vocal movement trying to get Janeane Garafalo's new TV show pulled off the air before it's even been on simply because of her expressed politics during the war. Outside of the fact she's horribly unfunny and the show will undoubtably be awful, this is a ludicrous and somewhat frightening reason to try and keep someone's TV show off of the air forever. Like the Dr. Laura incident, people seem to assume that because celebrities are "different", they need to "pay" or be "punished" for their politics in ways that if it happened to us and our jobs, it would be deemed outrageous and despicable.

And I brought the topic up becuase in the past week I've seen/read/heard quite a few pieces by various talk show hosts/pundits/editorialists asking whether or not people who were "anti-war" should be "punished" for their stance after the fact...very quickly it went from "celebrities" to just "people", and "punished" was pretty much the word of choice in ALL of these pieces. It's a relevant topic, it applies to ANYONE who may have a differing point of view, and it's shitty. It's not happing rampantly NOW, but these kind of sentiments show that it's a LOT more likely to occur than anyone should be comfortable with.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[FiveB247]

It's become very apparent in our society in the present and past that you can not openly remark on American Foreign Policy without being called traitors, leftists, communists, socialists, etc.

Free speech encompasses all perspectives of thought. Yet most find it ok to belittle or lash out against those not in agreement with such policies.

The media, the government officials, etc all further such methods and reactions in order to lay an invisible wall between the way polcies are carried out and things can be argued. Bureaucracy is a long slow process that allows for such opposition to die along the way. Without full backing or serious gathering among citizens, nothing changes.

[CaptClown]

It's become very apparent in our society in the present and past that you can not openly remark on American Foreign Policy without being called traitors, leftists, communists, socialists, etc.
You mean criticize.

Free speech encompasses all perspectives of thought. Yet most find it ok to belittle or lash out against those not in agreement with such policies.
That is all a part of free speech. Even those that criticize can be criticized.

As for the original topic, the entertainers make their bones on people liking them. If they are no longer liked then you probably won't get any work. No advertiser is going to throw money into a show that no one is going to watch because they don't like the star.
The Dixie Chicks forgot where they originally made their bones. Country audiences are extremely patriotic and generally don't brook any kind of perceived anti-americanism.


Director of the C.Y.A. Society.
Field Marshal of the K.I.S.S. Army
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RonFez/files/cptsig.gif

This message was edited by CaptClown on 4-28-03 @ 12:05 AM

[LiquidCourage]

Like the Dr. Laura incident


Haha, the thing that makes me laugh about this is that Susan Sarandon was all about getting Dr. Laura thrown off the air, but now she's bitching about Freedom of Speech.

What a hypocrite she is.

[TheMojoPin]

The issue ISN'T about celebrities.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[LiquidCourage]

I'm just saying it's ironic that she's all about silencing people when it's not her.

[Huganut]

The issue ISN'T about celebrities.


But it is, for the most part. Unless I'm mistaken, I've yet to hear of some ordinary Joe being fired for antiwar views. No one, with the exception of these few celebrities, is being chastised publicly for their views. No one is preventing them from working in their chosen field, except themselves. Like someone said earlier in this thread, if you say something that you know is going to upset a fickle public (theircustomer), then be prepared for a backlash.

Just curious, do you really think that those people trying to get Janeane G.'s show cancelled will suceed? Personally, I think that the networks will air it because of the press it's gotten. Christ, if it had to air based on her talent, it wouldn't have gotten this far.

[DJEvelEd]

I hate Charlton Heston's opinions on most things, but I watched The Omega Man over the weekend and had no problem. I enjoyed the movie but in the back of my mind, I thought about what a load he is. I watch movies to escape reality for a few hours, and that reality includes the stupid opinions of the actors I'm watching...

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Big bird is Ferrall's bitch
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[TheMojoPin]

I'm just saying it's ironic that she's all about silencing people when it's not her.

Very much so. Which is why I brought up Dr. Laura in my first post...this is an attitude that goes for both sides of the political fence.

But it is, for the most part. Unless I'm mistaken, I've yet to hear of some ordinary Joe being fired for antiwar views.

No, not yet, not that I know of, but I was just very suprised that many of the media pieces I was seeing on the subject very quickly veered into the "should PEOPLE be punished for their anti-war views after the fact", hinting that maybe this "problem" needs to be dealt with passed celebrities...it's the closest this country has come to blatant McCarthyism in quite some time, and only a fool sits around actually waiting for something happen before pointing it out and saying, "hey, hold the fuck up..."

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[GaryWyze]

<font color=purple>As I've said before, most celebrities don't live in the *real* world, and therefore have very little business commenting on it. I mean, does anybody really give their opinions any credence, anyway?

But that said, I think it's the height of hypocrisy to punish American's for exercising the very freedoms we're condemning other nations for depriving their people of.

All that backlash against the Dixie Chicks, Susan Sarandon and even Michael Moore is absolute bullshit. We've reduced politics in this country to nothing more than a sporting event, rooting for one team and booing those who cheer for the other. Gone are the days of unbiased reporting and the ability to separate a person from their politics (if ever there even was that day).

I supported our war in Iraq. Most of my friends did not. And yet they somehow managed not to boycott me because of it. Whether I agree with them or not, I think public figures deseve that same courtesy.

<center>http://czm.racknine.net/images/krustysig.jpg

Much thanks to CZM for the killer sig

>>Fuck YERDADDY, Free Our POWs<<

[hillburt_spaess]

I supported our war in Iraq. Most of my friends did not. And yet they somehow managed not to boycott me because of it. Whether I agree with them or not, I think public figures deseve that same courtesy.

Celebrities who wish to be taken seriously for thier politics and then complain when they get their wish are just whiny idiots who expect to be spared from criticism, much as they are in Hollywood.

Martin Sheen's "people" are actually floating the notion that he might run for elected office.

I can understand the anger - and it will eventually subside - but the arrogance of these spoon-fed celebrities and the "principles" that they espouse doesn't play wth middle America and they are learning that the hard way.

Tough shingle, so they lose a million or two in revenue, and they can't buy the split level doggy condo that pierre the shi-tzu so desperately needed.

Might just be karmic justice.

<p align="center"><img src="http://www.radiogenix.com/elem/signatures/sig_hs_001.jpg" width="299" height="140" border="0"></p>


- spaess out

[TheMojoPin]

Three words...

American Protective League.

Look it up.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Doogie]

this country doesn't have as much political freedoms as everyone gives us credit for.

Their is a difference between freedoms and being free.

I agree that boycotting celebrities for their political views is a lil assinine. Because if their is one thing that ALL Americans share (Republican and Democrat, Liberal and Conservative alike), is a short memory. And it will only be a matter of time before people are patronizing the celeb they are apparently boycotting. I feel radio stations are just playing the polls right now due to the outcry, but the Dixie Chicks did nothing wrong. Sure they disagreed with the President, but hey not everyone is going to agree with everything.

I mean there are some people today who disagree that we never should have of undertaken the greatest adventure in mankind, the Apollo Program, due to its immense costs. Although that money did go to the private sector, but that is another topic for another time. The point is that people disagree with things at various times, but that is no reason to persecute these people for these views. I mean for Gods sake are we trying to be the oppressive systems of Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia by punishing people for their views?? If someone disagrees they disagree, move on.

<IMG SRC=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/doogie.gif>
ADF Fan since day one...this sig rocks!!!
"Impossible is only the failure of imagination"
<marquee behavior=alternate>The Jedi Master and an incredible hound dogga</marquee>

[hillburt_spaess]

Three words...

American Protective League.

Look it up.



Pshaar.

Rooting out Bolshevism in Hollywood?

How cheeky.

People are too busy downloading midget porn to get that kind of nationalistic fervor going today.

<map name="sig_map">
<area alt="visit radiogenix.com" coords="12,12,229,38" href="http://www.radiogenix.com">
<area alt="What the f*ck is radiogenix?" coords="296,13,304,24" href="http://www.radiogenix.com/about.php">
<area alt="Visit the website, ya freek" coords="296,25,306,36" href="http://www.radiogenix.com">
<area alt="email the landlord" coords="296,37,305,48" href="mailto:admin@radiogenix.com">
</map>
<img src="http://www.radiogenix.com/elem/signatures/sig004.gif" width="320" height="60" border="0" usemap="#sig_map"><br />

- spaess out

This message was edited by hillburt_spaess on 4-29-03 @ 10:42 PM

[Se7en]

The issue ISN'T about celebrities.

But it is for me, it really is.

Check this out:

Celebrities. One thing I think these twits fail to understand is that when we the general public go to a movie, concert or whatever, it's to escape from the usual daily bullshit.Day in and day out we are inundated with war, politics, terrorism, death doom and gloom, so when we go to a concert/movie we want to forget about all that for a while, but when they start making political statements on or off stage it takes away that release from reality for a little while that folks look for. The deal is, you entertain us and we'll shell out the dough for it, we could basically give 2 dead cats less what you think, just shut the fuck up and do your job.

Case in point, on the weekends I watch no news, read no news sites, my TV stays on comedy central (So glad they brought back Jiminy Glick, one promo shows him asking Mel Brooks, "So what's your big beef with the Nazis?") or Cartoon Network because I don't have to worry about Courage the Cowardly Dog stopping in mid-scream to tell me what a Nazi regime the Bush administration is or that we're all going to die from SARS. People need that escape, and when reality is injected into it, it pisses em off.

I got this off a WRESTLING website. But it represents my feelings on celebrities voicing their opinions perfectly.

It's not that I personally don't believe they should have a right to voice their opinions. But don't brow-beat me with them, because bottom line, I pay these assholes to entertain me from the pitiful existence in which I live. I don't need to hear about THEIR fucking problems or causes.

EDIT: "Courage the Cowardly Dog" kicks all sorts of ass. Just thought it was important to note that.

<img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/captainamerica.jpg" width="300" height="100">

"By the laws of this very government - whether they want to accept it or not - every American is complicit in the darkness that this country spreads across the rest of the world - simply by paying taxes." -- Inali Redpath
"That's terrorist double-talk and I, for one, am SICK of listening to it." -- Captain America

"We have become too civilised to grasp the obvious. For the truth is very simple. To survive you often have to fight, and to fight you have to dirty yourself. War is evil, and it is often the lesser evil."
---George Orwell

This message was edited by Se7en on 4-30-03 @ 9:56 PM

[FiveB247]

So glad they brought back Jiminy Glick

Just Awful.

[TheMojoPin]

But it is for me, it really is.

So then you're MAKING them your problem...which is, ultimately, YOUR problem. Tough.

I can't stand D&M. I think they put out awful radio. But since I can't stand them, I simply tune out WJFK when they're on. Nobody is forcing me to listen. Nobody is forcing me to care. And along those lines, I don't actively attempt to have them pulled off the air (Whether I "should" or not is neither here nor there) simply because I can't stand them. It would be stupid of me to try such a thing, and a waste of my time, and I'm not that much of a free time-soaked moron.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TheMojoPin]

Celebrities. One thing I think these twits fail to understand is that when we the general public go to a movie, concert or whatever, it's to escape from the usual daily bullshit.Day in and day out we are inundated with war, politics, terrorism, death doom and gloom, so when we go to a concert/movie we want to forget about all that for a while, but when they start making political statements on or off stage it takes away that release from reality for a little while that folks look for. The deal is, you entertain us and we'll shell out the dough for it, we could basically give 2 dead cats less what you think, just shut the fuck up and do your job.

Fuckin'-A.

<img src=http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/north/reagan.jpg>

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[LiquidCourage]

Don't even mess with Ronny R, or you're lookin for a world of hurt.

[TheMojoPin]

Hey, I just don't want celebrities forcing their whacked-out, out of touch politics on the rest of us...especially not dome deek who made a movie with a monkey...

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[mdr55]

Damn with O.P.P. (Other people's politics)

I could care less if I vote Republican, Democrat or independent. I just VOTE!!!

And to all the STARS out there who are so "Into themselves" that they think we give a damn about their political views and manipulate the media to get their view across- "Unless you're a politician, shut the HELL up!!

[Huganut]

So then you're MAKING them your problem...which is, ultimately, YOUR problem. Tough.


That's true, it is a personal problem when we disagree with a celebrity pontificating. Therefore, I'll exercise MY 1st amendment rights and say what I think of them.

I don't think any of us are trying (with the possible exception of the Baseball Hall of Fame guy and Country music radio stations) to take away any celebrities jobs.

Mojo, you put it well with your Don and Mike analogy. People who are upset with the Dixie Chicks, Sarandon and Robbins, et. al., aren't necessarily saying that they think that someone should step in and "fire" these folks. They're simply excersising their right of free speech and getting their point across. Since they don't have the bully pulpit of celebrity, they use their collective bully pulpit, which are their wallets.

[TheMojoPin]

Mojo, you put it well with your Don and Mike analogy. People who are upset with the Dixie Chicks, Sarandon and Robbins, et. al., aren't necessarily saying that they think that someone should step in and "fire" these folks. They're simply excersising their right of free speech and getting their point across. Since they don't have the bully pulpit of celebrity, they use their collective bully pulpit, which are their wallets.

Which is fine...it IS a minority (But a very actiove one) that's trying to get people fired or "punished" down the line for their political views, and THOSE are the people I take issue with...other than that, no worries...

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Huganut]

Which is fine...it IS a minority (But a very actiove one) that's trying to get people fired or "punished" down the line for their political views, and THOSE are the people I take issue with...


If you're talking about goobers like the guy at the Baseball Hall of Fame, or Country Music radio stations, then fine, I agree. If you're talking about the general public, then I gotta disagree. It's the public's right to speak their mind, however much you or I may disagree with it. Much in the same way Anti-war protestors have the right to say their peice and vote the hawks out. Or, boycott Pro-war celebrities.

[TheMojoPin]

If you're talking about goobers like the guy at the Baseball Hall of Fame, or Country Music radio stations, then fine, I agree. If you're talking about the general public, then I gotta disagree. It's the public's right to speak their mind, however much you or I may disagree with it. Much in the same way Anti-war protestors have the right to say their peice and vote the hawks out. Or, boycott Pro-war celebrities.

But you're still not seeing the difference, even though is probably the dozenth time I've posted it in this thread...voice your opinion, boycott, FINE, good, great grand, no problems. ACTIVELY seeking to keep someone from working down the line in their chosen profession in the future, whether they be celebrity or not, is wrong. It's not illegal, but it's a petty, dick move, and it's wrong. THAT'S the difference.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Huganut]

Ok, my last word as well. I get your point, but you're not getting mine as well.

It's not illegal, but it's a petty, dick move, and it's wrong.


It IS illegal, if an employer does it. Many states have "Employment at Will" laws, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you can be fired for your political views. If it's the general public, then there are laws against that as well. (physically obstructing someone from entering a job site, etc.) These were put in place for the protection of "scabs" who work in place of Union workers in times of strike or lockout.

In the case of a business owner, or a self-employed worker, there aren't as many protections, and I don't think that the majority of them would want them. Think about it. If you own a head shop, and have signs all over the place espousing that you think that drug use is wrong and evil, then I'll give you my wife's business number. Her firm would be glad to handle your bankruptcy. (please notice how firmly my tongue is in my cheek with that example)

People buy with their emotion as much, or more, than they do according to their need, and will take their business elsewhere if offended.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you, other than to say that I don't think it's as big a deal as you do. If I'm still not getting ya, then no big deal, we'll just agree to disagree (over what, I have no idea)

[TheMojoPin]

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you, other than to say that I don't think it's as big a deal as you do. If I'm still not getting ya, then no big deal, we'll just agree to disagree (over what, I have no idea)

Neither do I. I don't think it's a "big deal", I just think it sets a shitty precedent. Call it a "pet peeve" if you will, but the point is that the topic was being tossed about with pretty free abandon for a while there, which indicates to me at least that it's a little too likely an option for people down the line...maybe...maybe not. Let's hope not...

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."