About the war: My friend's opinion

[FMJeff]

THIS is what I'm looking for in this forumn. Well researched, articulate opinoins. This one is from my friend:
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This email was originally going to a friend of mine in NY who is pro war, but I've copied some other folks on it because it may be interesting to some of you. Read it if you'd like ( I warn you it is long and hastily crafted):

I'm glad to have piqued your interest, now we can have a debate about this war. I consider you a formidable, if not misguided, foe.

"Freedom to the people of Iraq!?!"
Some news from today: "The White House said that $62.6bn of the funds will support US troops both in Iraq and other operations related to the broader war on terrorism. The rest - $12.1bn - will go to humanitarian assistance in Iraq, other foreign aid and homeland defence projects. "ÿ Sounds like a lot of money, doesn't it? Well, it's ok, as long as we're giving 12.1bn to help the Iraqi people- you know, the same Iraqi's that we're fighting operation Iraqi Freedom for. But wait, let's investigate those figures just a tad bit further...

ÿ"The $8 billion for international relief and reconstruction includes $3.5 billion for Iraq ($2.5 billion in a relief fund and much of the rest for oil field repair) and $5 billion in assistance to nations that have been helpful in the Iraq war or in fighting terrorism, including Jordan, Israel, Pakistan, Egypt, Afghanistan, the Philippines, Colombia and some Eastern European countries.

Turkey will get $1 billion of the funds; the country had been offered a $6 billion aid package if it allowed use of its bases but its parliament rejected the offer. The plan envisions $500 million for oil field repair.

The $4 billion for homeland security includes $2 billion in grants to states ..." (-from the washington post) [8 +4 = the 12 billion aforementioned by media reporting white house press junkets instead of news]"

Boy - sure looks like Iraqi people will benefit from the 2.5 billion we are going to invest in instantly rebuilding their oil fields. Hey - how about the 5 million, most of which is already earmarked for Israel? And what of our good friends, Pakistan, with a more dictatorial regime than Saddam's and a proven Nuclear arsenal. In fact, they continuously threaten to begin Nuclear conflict with India daily, don't they? What's our stance on them? Pay them. Hey Felix, what country do you think 'Osama Bin remember Me I'm the reason for this fight' is in right now? Think it's Pakistan? Just a reminder - we're attacking Iraq, here.

And what's this? http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/25/news/companies/war_contracts/index.htm

Why, as of noon today, Halliburton sealed a deal worth a possible $5bn to fix those pesky oil wells. I'm sure there was no Iraqi company that could have done it, besides, Dick Cheney trusts Halliburton pretty well, and we should believe him. Of the 5bn, if you read, 3bn is delivered from our govt. up front. That's more than the aid we have promised iraqi's, in case you lost count already. Operation Iraqi freedom, for the people?

Evil Empire of Saddam?
But wait, maybe the reason for attacking Iraq isn't to help the people, silly, it's to get rid of those crazy WMD that Saddam has. I mean, really, he's nuts, huh!

"Today US Major-General Victor Renuart confirmed that coalition forces have not yet found any evidence that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction - although troops will continue to investigate sites "that have raised suspicions in the past", he added."

Hmm, the inspectors we sent in and the military can't find em. They must be really well hidden. We should know what they look like considering we sold them to him in the 80's when he wasn't so nuts. How come we can't find em? Could it be related to the fact that the CIA admitted that the document 'proving' Iraq has WMD capabilities was forged?

Saddam is pretty crazy. I mean, he's killing Americans, who are only there to help him and for the good of his people. What is he thinking? Felix, can you tell him that because we are the United States, we have a right t

[furie]

one thing; Iraq won't need US cash to help it rebuild because once there is a regime change, the crippling UN sanctions will be lifted and they can start selling vast quantities of oil. That's how the reconstruction will be financed, with their own resources.

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[Legolas]

We're gonna have to spend some money in rebuilding everything that we tore down. And how long do you think it's gonna take for the money from the oil wells to get to the people. We're also gonna have to pay for the puppet gov't that we'll install. At least in the beginning anyway.

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Ron: You see why people think christians are stupid.

[Death Metal Moe]

You've changed my mind. The US IS evil and I'm moving tomorrow.

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[King Imp]

Ya know, some of that just made me sick! Don't get me wrong, I can agree with a lot of points made, but he makes it sound like Saddam is innocent and misunderstood.

How many fucking times do people have to have the facts shoved down their throats about this monster before they accept the fact he is evil and needs to be taken out? Preferably in a body bag.




This message was edited by King Imp on 3-25-03 @ 7:15 PM

[HBox]

one thing: Iraq won't need US cash to help it rebuild because once there is a regime change, the crippling UN sanctions will be lifted and they can start selling vast quantities of oil. That's how the reconstruction will be financed, with their own resources.


That not true. Iraq doesn't have a large oil manufacturing infrastructure. Well over half their oil fields are undeveloped and will take years to develop. And they were already getting quite a bit for oil through the oil for food program and illegal selling of oil to Jordan and Turkey.

And if you think Iraq is really gonna get rich off its oil, read this:
To protect the tens of billions they will need to pour into a postwar Iraq, the oil giants are likely to push a controversial form of contract that gives them an ownership stake in the oilfields and guaranteed relief from national tax and environmental laws for the life of the project. So far, oil companies have won these deals, known as production-sharing agreements (PSAs), mainly in weak states that don't know better than to give away the store-but never in the big Middle Eastern countries.

It's all right here:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/885939.asp

That is a really depressing article. It seems like France, Russia, China, Britain, and the U.S. are tripping over themselves lunging for Iraqi oil. Its sad.

[TooCute]

Sorry, I missed it... where did it say that the US was evil and Saddam was innocent?

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[silera]

How many fucking times do people have to have the facts shoved down their throats about this monster before they accept the fact he is evil and needs to be taken out? Preferably in a body bag.

Why do we have to do it?

Why do we have to pay for it?

Why do our citizens have to die for people that don't want us there?





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[King Imp]

That whole thing was riddled with sarcasm TooCute. Just the fact he made these statements knowing he was being sarcastic made it sound like he was siding with Saddam.

Evil Empire of Saddam?
But wait, maybe the reason for attacking Iraq isn't to help the people, silly, it's to get rid of those crazy WMD that Saddam has. I mean, really, he's nuts, huh!
Saddam is pretty crazy. I mean, he's killing Americans, who are only there to help him and for the good of his people. What is he thinking? Felix, can you tell him that because we are the United States, we have a right to invade whatever sovereign nation may possibly someday threaten our economic partners (you guessed it, Israel) with weapons? Saddam is really forgetting all those important points.

The way I read these implied he was saying Hussein is innocent and misunderstood. If your friend wasn't implying that Jeff I do apologize, but like I said the whole thing was riddled with sarcasm.

[King Imp]

Why do we have to do it?
To protect ourselves from the inevitable attack that will come. It may not have been today, it may not have been tomorrow, but goddamn it pisses me off that some of you would rather see a fucking missile slamming into NYC that will wipe all of us out before you accept something has to be done.

Why do we have to pay for it?
That I will agree with you on 100%. It pisses me off that we are footing a bill this astronomical when it should be going towards our own country. I know some may argue this is for the good of our country, but it just seems like a lot of money to throw to other people as well.

Why do our citizens have to die for people that don't want us there?
I'm sorry, but you are implying that they ALL do not want us there. I have seen plenty of info suggesting that a lot of them are grateful we are there and are trying to save them. A few hundred dying is sometimes necessary so a few billion can live.


This message was edited by King Imp on 3-25-03 @ 7:34 PM

[silera]

I disagree.

I have not been convinced that Saddam will attack us.

I have not seen any Iraqi support for the US invasion thus far. Even the Shiites, that HATE Saddam are fighting our troops.


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This message was edited by silera on 3-25-03 @ 7:39 PM

[King Imp]

I disagree.

I have not been convinced that Saddam will attack us.

I have not seen any Iraqi support for the US invasion thus far.
No one thought a simple terrorist group could touch us either. Look where that got us on 9/11 as we sat around all cocky and lazy thinking it would never happen here. If a GROUP could do that, imagine what a COUNTRY could do.

As far as the Iraqi support goes, I don't know what to tell you. They want him gone more than we do. Watch more TV or read more news because I've seen a bunch of it.


This message was edited by King Imp on 3-25-03 @ 7:46 PM

[furie]

And if you think Iraq is really gonna get rich off its oil, read this:


I never said they're going to get rich, all i said is that we, the USA, will not have to layout much in the way of currency to rebuild Iraq, that the reopened oil fields will do that. In the end result, they are going to get exploited by Big Oil.

no shit. but that's not what i was commenting on. Jeff's friend was criticizing the amount of aid the US is giving up front to rebuilt Iraq. I was simply saying that the amount we are fronting for this project was fine, because the rest will be paid for by Big Oil.



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[Bigden]

Well written, however I am tired of people stating their opinion as fact. At least be honest with yourself and realize this is a developing situation. I worry for the people that don't know the facts and believe what you state as fact. One small example:
You state that their is no Al Qaeda connection to Iraq- I didn't realize that George Tenant was a poster on this string. How could you possibly know whether Saddam has any Al Qaeda connection? Yet you pass that on as fact. Have you been watching Al Jaezera again? Face it none of us are going to know anything concrete about Saddam's regime till we raid his archives in Baghdad. Can't we all be a little patient? Maybe E-mail a supporting note to our troops? This is nowhere near over so hunker down and let those conspiracy theories sit till we know a little more information either way.

[FMJeff]

You state that their is no Al Qaeda connection to Iraq- I didn't realize that George Tenant was a poster on this string. How could you possibly know whether Saddam has any Al Qaeda connection?


I think the essence of what he was trying to say was Bush used the Al-Queda connection as an excuse for war....a rather selacious implication which, strangely enough, has fallen by the wayside in the President's attempts to justify this war. We've gone from Saddam to Al Queda to saving the Iraqi people. It all seems rather contrived to me.

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