The depressing history of The Patriot Act

[DarkHippie]

Interesting read: Its got everything: (to summarize) Ashcroft takes it upon himself to "save the country" does an end around on Congress straight to the Media. The Conservatives and ACLU team up to try and combat him, only to be let down by the placating Democrats. And thus, the Patriot Act is born.
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_1865.shtml

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[FiveB247]

It's scary. After the initial Gulf War...I believe it was Chaney as quoted as saying "the media is somethig to contend and deal with". He said this after refering to colateral damage and the human toll of the war regarding civilians and such. Makes you really wonder at what extends they go about all of these things. There was just a good article in this months Rolling Stone magazine regarding some of these items as well as outlooks towards the upcoming war.

[high fly]

This is how we lose our liberty

"Sure I'm happy to see you; haven't you noticed that lump in my sock?"

[HBox]

Seriously, are we living in a bad movie now or what?

[Bergalad]

The committee, which had started the impeachment process against President Clinton rolling with its raucous 1998 hearings and vote, had firebrands on the Republican right, matched by a healthy contingent of strident Democrats on the left. Yet this afternoon, the committee voted 36-0 to approve a scaled-back version of Ashcroft's Patriot Act.

Approved 36-0 by a bipartisan Congressional committee then...
the House voted 337-79 to pass the bill

Yeah, sounds like he did an end-around of the Congress to me. Oh wait:
Murphy and other ACLU staffers were on the phone to their friends who were staffers on the Hill, screaming about a betrayal.

What this article is really about, besides being belligerant, partisan, and insulting to the Attorney General, is how the poor ACLU didn't get it's way. How sad.

[DarkHippie]

Actually bergalad, this is more about how ashcroft betrayed the conservatives in his party by going ahead with his plan with out even notifying anyone in his party. They joined forces with the ACLU to attmept to stop Ashcroft (an unlikely alliance, but one that was necessary) Did you read the article, or were you just skimming for quotes you could use in your counter argument? because you apparently missed this:
Yeah, sounds like he did an end-around of the Congress to me. Oh wait
earlier in the piece it is stated how he went straight to the talk show circuit without going to the Judiciary committee. This is the end around.

And if you keep reading you will find why the vote came the way it did, how it was toned down from what Ashcroft originally wanted, in order to pass through the house of reps, the conservatives hoping that the dems would strip it down even more in the senate, which they failed to do. Please pay attention to your rhetoric.

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This message was edited by DarkHippie on 3-6-03 @ 5:36 PM

[Bergalad]

Yes, I read the article. Every bill presented to the Congress is modified, some more than others. Sure, it's probable that Ashcroft's bill was over-zealous. Many bills submitted by both sides can be called that. The citizens of the US wanted something from the government to show they were taking some action against terrorism. This isn't the best Act, but through judicial review and congressional ammendments, it may become so. I wouldn't take everything this article says as fact by the way. The author is terribly biased, going as far as to say Ashcroft had a lack of brainpower. So much for accurate and impartial journalism.

[HordeKing1]

Want to see something really scary? Take a look at what happens to the Bill of Rights if FEMA ever gets implemented.

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[Bergalad]

I agree on that one

[Doogie]

It seems to me that the Patriot Act while passed what is classified as hastily, was pre-meditated. What I mean is that it seems that Bush feared the internet pre-9/11 and used the events of 9/11 combined with the shock that everyone was feeling to get this thing passed. Majority of the act seems targeted at the internet and all the wiretaps and what not...jesus, this is like Emperor Palpatine type of shit!!! I am stocking up on my firearms now for when he dismisses congress and assumes dictatorial powers.

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[high fly]

Dick Nixon would have loved The Patriot Act

" and they ask me why I drink"